Suggested by Destroyer Now this one gets pretty interesting. Galactus is massively huge and has a ton of power so you don’t want to underestimate that. That being said, he is up against Greninja who thanks to the anime has even gotten a few super forms. Galactus would not be able to keep up with Greninja’s speed at all and that will hurt him a bit. Additionally, Greninja’s attacks are powerful enough where they will hurt Galactus. It will be a battle of attrition but one where Greninja will come out on top. Greninja wins.
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I just have to ask, how can Greninja possibly significantly hurt or speedblitz Galactus? On the damage front even when weakened by hunger, Galactus can survive the full force of two planets colliding right onto him, and no sell combined attacks from the Avengers. And normal galactus doesn’t even feel punches from the Thing, no sells Mjolnir hits, and generally just takes hits from a whole legion of heroes with pretty much zero problem. Even if we take the strongest version of Greninja, how is he supposed to compete with that? And hell that’s not even all, with his shields also preventing Thor from getting through. He doesn’t even have to take damage himself, his shields can do it for him.
And speed wise? The guy can easily travel many, many light years with unimaginable speed. What does Greninja have that can compete with that? And with Galactus being able to super size himself to ridiculous levels? I don’t think he really needs to dodge Greninja.
This isn’t even getting into his other abilities, with his energy attacks oneshotting people like Silver Surfer and a Celestial, manipulating matter like when he turned someone into a worm and then into energy, or his teleportation known to be able to remove people from the battlefield, essentially netting him a win instantly.
I’m really curious as to what you believe Greninja has that can compete with that, even with the strongest version of him or a composite Greninja. Because Galactus seems to just be so immensely powerful that I don’t think Greninja can really even hurt him or even really be noticed until the end.
I’d say it really comes down to Greninja’s attack power. In his Ash mode he was able to take on other Mega level Pokemon. Additionally his speed was so great that it was hard to track his movements. Galactus has FTL travel speed, but in terms of combat he’s really slow. I think he would have a really hard time keeping up here and while his durability is on point, it’ll also end up failing him when it counts. Meanwhile it’s hard to see Galactus being able to strike fast enough to land any solid hits here and that’s really going to come back to bite him
“I’d say it really comes down to Greninja’s attack power. In his Ash mode he was able to take on other Mega level Pokemon.”
Show me how taking on Mega Pokemon is comparable to no selling an entire legion’s worth of superheroes wailing on Galactus. And even if it is, it would take a significantly higher amount of attack power to do any significant damage. This isn’t even going into the time he casually survived being in the core of a galaxy with the vacuum of space going at him and incredibly freezing temperatures. He can even tank an the damage of being inside an exploding star, and an entire moon being smashed on him and those two planets at his weakest as I mentioned before. Do you really believe Greninja’s attacks are at all comparable to that level of damage? If so I’d like to see the evidence for that.
“Additionally his speed was so great that it was hard to track his movements. Galactus has FTL travel speed, but in terms of combat he’s really slow. I think he would have a really hard time keeping up here”
It being hard to track does not make it impressive Dreager. The guy has fought Thor and Silver Surfer who would definitely qualify as being fast enough to be hard to track. Thor can dodge asteroids , blocks multiple types of bullets, can move so fast he’s basically a blur, and his flight speed easily goes past FTL. Silver Surfer casually outspeeds and outmaneuvers missiles, weaves within the blasts of spaceships as they’re firing, and need I go on? Unless you can prove Greninja can both get to that level and beat it significantly to make Galactus unable to keep up, it’s not a worthwhile point.
” while his durability is on point, it’ll also end up failing him when it counts”
Again you gotta prove that Greninja has significantly higher attack power than all the stuff Galactus has tanked with zero difficulty in the past. And since you haven’t done that I can’t take this point seriously.
“Meanwhile it’s hard to see Galactus being able to strike fast enough to land any solid hits here and that’s really going to come back to bite him”
Since you haven’t proved that Greninja can really hurt Galactus, let alone be a danger to him, him keeping up is irrelevant. It seems far more likely that Greninja will tire themselves out going all out, allowing Galactus to take over from there.
You have yet to provide any examples of anything related to attack power, speed etc. that would show point to your argument being sound. I’ve provided multiple feats of speed, durability and, the variety of powers he has that you’ve entirely ignored in this response. Come on Dreager, you gotta give more than you have if you want to convince me of anything here.
So when it comes to speed, Galactus beating the Avengers is not as impressive as it sounds. Keep in mind that they all basically run into his hits but we haven’t seen Galactus show any kind of real speed. If you put him up against someone like Greninja, I don’t see him landing any hits. The difference in their overall abilities is just way too massive.
As for attack power, Greninja has his Ash form and was even able to damage Mega Charizard. Galactus has taken damage from fighters like Thor and Ghost Rider who are strong but don’t hit with the same force so I don’t have any doubt that Greninja would be landing a lot of severe blows here. Galactus would be losing health the whole time and would ultimately go down.
There’s not a lot of direct feats I can pull for Greninja outside of the fights themselves. Pokemon just doesn’t go for the full feats in a dramatic sense but we still have a lot of hype moments scattered throughout. What this fight really comes down to is that Galactus can be injured by Greninja and he can’t catch the guy. Those two data points are all you need in order to see why Greninja wins this fight
“So when it comes to speed, Galactus beating the Avengers is not as impressive as it sounds. Keep in mind that they all basically run into his hits but we haven’t seen Galactus show any kind of real speed. If you put him up against someone like Greninja, I don’t see him landing any hits. The difference in their overall abilities is just way too massive.”
Let’s say you’re right about the Avengers, that they just run into his hands. Even with the speeds that I’ve mentioned they can reach, even with all the feats I mentioned. You still have yet to prove that Greninja is even comparable let alone faster. What you’ve said basically adds up to “I just really feel like he is” , which does nothing. Give me any sort of indication that Greninja can compare speedwise to any of Galactus’ enemies that i’ve mentioned. If you don’t I cannot take this argument seriously.
“As for attack power, Greninja has his Ash form and was even able to damage Mega Charizard. Galactus has taken damage from fighters like Thor and Ghost Rider who are strong but don’t hit with the same force so I don’t have any doubt that Greninja would be landing a lot of severe blows here. Galactus would be losing health the whole time and would ultimately go down.”
I beg of you PLEASE tell me what evidence you have that Greninja hits harder than Thor or Ghost Rider. Tell me how Mega Charizard’s durability is at all comparable to Galactus’. You know like casually tanking the friggin moon being thrown directly at him. Do you really believe any of Greninja’s attacks are at all comparable to an entire moon doing such a thing? Just like before if you cannot expand upon this I cannot take this argument seriously either.
“There’s not a lot of direct feats I can pull for Greninja outside of the fights themselves. Pokemon just doesn’t go for the full feats in a dramatic sense but we still have a lot of hype moments scattered throughout. What this fight really comes down to is that Galactus can be injured by Greninja and he can’t catch the guy. Those two data points are all you need in order to see why Greninja wins this fight”
You still haven’t proven that his attack power is enough to hurt Galactus significantly and neither have you proven that Greninja cannot be caught. You haven’t proved whatsoever that Greninja wins this battle or how Greninja can even hurt him significantly.
Like I really don’t get it Dreager, i’ve already gone over at least twice why the points you’re making don’t work. You refuse to expand upon them at any point, and lead your argument down the same path every single time. I’ve explained thoroughly why your points aren’t logical or don’t give enough information to be taken seriously. At this point I have to assume that this isn’t just a lack of understanding. You’re seriously making it look like you just want to stick to your guns no matter how barebones they are and no matter how much they need to be expanded upon. In other words, it appears to me you’re being a contrarian just because you can.
I think we’re going in circles here but lets try to break this down. For speed, check this video out from 1:58-2:15
There’s no way Galactus could hope to dodge or counter those blows. This is exactly the kind of speed disadvantage that would take him out of the fight. Greninja’s not going to get hit at this point. So we can rule the speed out. Now lets talk about power.
Check the same video out from 6-8. He is able to take on a GIgantomax version of Machamp which has incredible durability and power. Yet Lucario’s attacks did massive damage. The same time frame also shows you how Greninja is able to block his full attacks.
For Galactus, check this video out at 1:30
A single blast of lightning is able to knock Galactus to the ground. Also note that his reaction times were basically 0 here. It’s really all a matter of speed and Galactus is just way too slow to do anything. If you have the speed advantage and enough power to damage your opponent (Greninja’s attacks are way better than a bolt of lightning) then you will win your match 99% of the time
I’m glad you’ve actually made an attempt at providing evidence, but I’m still utterly unconvinced. Not only have I shown feats that clearly outpace a lot of what you’ve shown here, this is Lucario, not Greninja. And even more damning is that Lucario was only able to compete via Mega Evolution, something Greninja has no access to. They’re different pokemon with entirely different typing and therefore entirely different moves. And if we’re talking Ash versions of these pokemon, in completely different regions in seperate versions of the anime.
For the Speed video, it’s literally just Machamp wailing on Lucario and Lucario barely dodging anything. Hell he struggles even before Machamp goes beyond normal punching speed. To say this is at all comparable to any of the major enemies he’s faced is… i’m sorry to say it completely laughable. This is nothing compared to some of the beasts i’ve mentioned before.
As for the durability stuff, I’ve already cited multiple feats that completely contradict what you’ve provided for Galactus. And I’ve stated them multiple times. The guy can tank a whole lot more than that in the comics and can do so consistently. Also, even in this video, (which I would basically ignore anyways since he’s got way better feats than this) Galactus has no visible damage and gets right back to business and blasts Thor with his eye beams. IT took a Penance Stare, something that ignores durability and is more based on all the shitty things someone has done for him to be defeated. If that didn’t happen, Galactus would’ve easily given this group of heroes a huge struggle.
Again I am happy that you’ve provided something for me to actually look at and judge, but it’s not nearly enough for me.You’re out here using an entirely different pokemon with a Mega evolution with different typing.That’s what you’ve decided to use as your evidence for Greninja being able to take down Galactus.They are not the same Pokemon, and therefore I can’t consider what you’ve provided as evidence. And then you’ve provided a video for Galactus which I have multiple feats to contradict, and doesn’t even really show what it needs to show in order to prove your point.
Feats to contradict the Galactus one:
Being in the middle of an exploding star casually:
Surviving the Moon slamming into him:
Tanking all sorts of heroes blasting him at the same time:
Greninja is far more likely to tire themselves out before they ever even get close to defeating Galactus. Galactus doesn’t even need to consistently dodge or hit Greninja with durability like this. And given the speed of the people he does fight, again like Thor and Silver Surfer, I don’t think Greninja is anything special to him. I’m still utterly unconvinced that Greninja has any chance of winning here.
Messed up the image for the moon feat:
All right lets tackle this one point by point. Greninja may not have a mega form but in his Ash mode he can pretty much compete on par with one so it may as well be the same thing. His speed and power jump up dramatically. Galactus probably still outpaces him with sheer durability but Greninja’s attacks will gradually cut him down to size. Here’s a good example of what he can do with his attacks.
They were fast enough that Charizard could barely react to some of them and they did massive amounts of damage. Now for the Galactus durability. His armor/barriers definitely seem to be incredibly good to be able to be inside a star explosion like that and for the Moon to hit him. That said, he can only take a barrage like what Greninja has for so long. The initial attacks may be ones that Galactus could scoff at but once Greninja’s attacks start landing home then it’s all over. Galactus doesn’t have any real way to dodge because he’s so slow.
He can try to counter but only his wider energy bursts like what he used during Armageddon could possibly hurt Greninja and even then I’d wager that Greninja could block it since those attacks aren’t as focused. It comes down to being a speed vs power kind of thing but one where the gap is so side that Galactus just wouldn’t be able to do anything. That’s what would hurt him here, you have to be able to reliably land a few blows at least in order to secure the edge here
You really looked at that video and thought to yourself ” This is impressive enough to convince them that this means Greninja can even significantly hurt Galactus let alone beat him” I’m genuinely astounded that you believed that, because it’s so, SO not enough to prove anything here.
“They were fast enough that Charizard could barely react to some of them and they did massive amounts of damage. Now for the Galactus durability. His armor/barriers definitely seem to be incredibly good to be able to be inside a star explosion like that and for the Moon to hit him. That said, he can only take a barrage like what Greninja has for so long. The initial attacks may be ones that Galactus could scoff at but once Greninja’s attacks start landing home then it’s all over. Galactus doesn’t have any real way to dodge because he’s so slow.”
This speed is nothing that Galactus hasn’t gone up against before, and you know it Dreager. You’re kidding yourself if you genuinely believe this speed is comparable to friggin Silver Surfer and Thor. It’s simply not and it’s very laughable that you believe it is. Both Thor and SS make jokes of bullets, missiles, and can go FTL. Tell me how this battle at all replicates anything close to that and I’ll begin to take you seriously on that point. And in this battle it proved the very thing I was referring to with Greninja getting tired. You can see throughout the fight that he’s struggling, breathing very heavily against a powerful and durable Pokemon. Galactus is has wildly better durability than anything shown by Mega Charizard here, and has a lot of powerful attacks himself. Do you really believe that Greninja’s attacks are even close to a fraction of the power of being inside an exploding STAR?Which he no selled with zero problem? And again, HE DOES NOT NEED TO DODGE BECAUSE OF THIS. Stop making his ability to dodge a point here, it’s completely unnecessary for him to do so given the feats i’ve told you about multiple times and have shown you. Just like Toadman vs Titanosaurus, nothing you’ve shown is remotely comparable.
“He can try to counter but only his wider energy bursts like what he used during Armageddon could possibly hurt Greninja and even then I’d wager that Greninja could block it since those attacks aren’t as focused. It comes down to being a speed vs power kind of thing but one where the gap is so side that Galactus just wouldn’t be able to do anything. That’s what would hurt him here, you have to be able to reliably land a few blows at least in order to secure the edge here”
So you think Greninja is going to be able to block a large energy burst from a far larger entity than Mega Charizard, and once that isn’t as direct? That would make it even harder to block or dodge. Galactus regularly deals with speed vs power and wins. He’s used to dealing with extremely fast opponents that can easily outpace Greninja. Hell they’re rather grounded compared to someone like Thor who can straight up fly. To use this as a point you would have to entirely ignore the wide catalogue of powerful heroes he’s faced in the Marvel Universe, which is exactly what you’re doing. Again you’ve provided a video that cements my opinion on this battle instead of convincing me of your points here. You’ve unleashed another Trojan Horse upon yourself. Can’t wait for you to somehow twist what happened in this video as enough to batter Galactus down though so that’ll be fun. Still completely unconvinced though, so try again.
I’m surprised the video was not enough to convince you there. It shows Greninja operating on crazy amounts of power so when you mix in his speed then that would be it for Galactus. Now, I know Galactus has fought with faster guys like SS and Thor, but they never use their speed to their advantage. If they speedblitzed Galactus then there wouldn’t be anything he could do. They just tend to charge in which is how Galactus gets them.
Galactus isn’t fast so the opponents should be playing the matchup but instead they always tend to just run/fly straight at him. A concentrated attack is different than being inside a star or really impressive heat moments like that. Galactus couldn’t just stand there and tank Greninja’s attacks in the same way. He just wouldn’t be able to pull that off.
Galactus is used to beating up opponents who aren’t using their speed to their advantage. Greninja will not be making that mistake. He can quickly just go in and start laying out some damage. If Galactus tries to use a wide hitting attack, it would definitely be weaker than a concentrated blast so Greninja should definitely be able to block that. Galactus’ durability buys him some time but you can’t tell me that he would be able to take several of those water blasts straight up without going down
“I’m surprised the video was not enough to convince you there. It shows Greninja operating on crazy amounts of power so when you mix in his speed then that would be it for Galactus. Now, I know Galactus has fought with faster guys like SS and Thor, but they never use their speed to their advantage. If they speedblitzed Galactus then there wouldn’t be anything he could do. They just tend to charge in which is how Galactus gets them.”
The video is mostly made up of Greninja using the same attacks again and again. And Mega Charizard was able to block and tank a lot of them. Galactus should easily be able to do the same with both his natural durability and his shields. And even if it’s literally SS and Thor simply charging at him it’s still a more impressive feat since they’re still much faster and again they can actually fly. Greninja does not have that option and it will hurt them
“Galactus isn’t fast so the opponents should be playing the matchup but instead they always tend to just run/fly straight at him. A concentrated attack is different than being inside a star or really impressive heat moments like that. Galactus couldn’t just stand there and tank Greninja’s attacks in the same way. He just wouldn’t be able to pull that off.”
Galactus has no selled Mjolnir,concentrated fire beams at max power, an entire legion of heroes blasting him all at once, a whole ass moon being thrown at him etc. Are you seriously telling me that these aren’t enough powerful direct attacks that Galactus has no selled to tank Greninja’s attacks until they tire themselves out? I mean again Greninja was actively getting tired throughout the video you showed me. So that could easily apply here.
And the star feat not being a concentrated attack is simply irrelevant. It means he’s able to survive the intense heat and power of an exploding sun over his entire body without breaking a sweat. There is nothing that Greninja has that is remotely comparable.
“Galactus is used to beating up opponents who aren’t using their speed to their advantage. Greninja will not be making that mistake. He can quickly just go in and start laying out some damage. If Galactus tries to use a wide hitting attack, it would definitely be weaker than a concentrated blast so Greninja should definitely be able to block that. Galactus’ durability buys him some time but you can’t tell me that he would be able to take several of those water blasts straight up without going down”
I mean what Greninja blocks in that video is a pretty concentrated beam of energy. So you can’t really say that they would be able to apply that to a wider attack. And given all the examples I’ve listed multiple times, yes I can absolutely say that Galactus can easily tanking several water blasts. This is downplaying Galactus’ durability to frankly ridiculous levels. Water blasts aren’t going to do anything compared to all the stuff I listed before. You’re really just doubling down here, please just concede that you’ve lost here and change the verdict. You’re not going to convince me with the arguments you’ve given because they’re simply not convincing whatsoever.
They’re based on a lot of incorrect assumptions, downplaying Galactus and wanking Greninja to levels that are ridiculous. I’ve shown Galactus’ durability both in direct and indirect attack, his plethora of abilities, and why Greninja’s speed isn’t that impressive and isn’t enough to win here. And you’ve given me direct video evidence that proves my case even more, with an unimpressive battle that doesn’t showcase a lot of speed, power and actively shows Greninja getting battered and tired throughout a the battle. And against Mega Charizard who doesn’t showcase anything crazy in durability strength, power etc. You’ve been refuted and proven wrong on multiple occasions here, and yet again I’m still completely unconvinced.
It’s true that Greninja can’t fly but he can jump so high and move so fast that it won’t matter. He may use the same attacks a whole lot but that’s because they work. Galactus would be getting pummeled with damage over and over again to the point where he will fall. Even a guy who is that durable will end up going down after a while because the hits really add up.
Greninja’s speed is still very impressive here because he will be playing the matchup well. He will just dodge all of Galactus’ attacks and keep on swinging for as long as he can. It’s why this guy is just unbelievably powerful to the point where he strikes fear into all of us right off the bat.
Now to get into the Galactus durability issue. He can tank a lot but can he really go one step further to actually tank a concentrated Greninja blast? This is where I don’t think he could. Unlike a Mjolnir blast or a Silver Surfer cosmic ray, this is a concentrated water blast that will keep going or the Shruiken version. Galactus could survive some hits but they will still put him under in the end
“It’s true that Greninja can’t fly but he can jump so high and move so fast that it won’t matter. He may use the same attacks a whole lot but that’s because they work. Galactus would be getting pummeled with damage over and over again to the point where he will fall. Even a guy who is that durable will end up going down after a while because the hits really add up.”
Jumping high and moving fast are inferior to flying and moving fast correct? That’s what my point is, that Galactus has faced multiple opponents with similar and flat out superior mobility to Greninja’s. What Greninja has to offer is nothing mind boggling to Galactus whatsoever.And you still have yet to prove they are at all powerful compared to any of the stuff Galactus has tanked with zero damage to him. You also still have yet to address the fact that Greninja was shown to be actively tired against Mega Charizard, showing lending even more credence to the argument that they could easily tire themselves out before doing any significant damage.
“Greninja’s speed is still very impressive here because he will be playing the matchup well. He will just dodge all of Galactus’ attacks and keep on swinging for as long as he can. It’s why this guy is just unbelievably powerful to the point where he strikes fear into all of us right off the bat.”
I’ve addressed this point. Galactus doesn’t need to dodge, he can simply tank everything Greninja throws at him without a sweat. And you continue to act as if he can’t when I’ve shown you the crazy shit he can tank without any problem. This isn’t a valid point, throw it out Dreager.
“Now to get into the Galactus durability issue. He can tank a lot but can he really go one step further to actually tank a concentrated Greninja blast? This is where I don’t think he could. Unlike a Mjolnir blast or a Silver Surfer cosmic ray, this is a concentrated water blast that will keep going or the Shruiken version. Galactus could survive some hits but they will still put him under in the end”
Explain and prove to me how a concentrated water blast is a step up from having an entire legion of heroes throw their energy powers at you all at once and tanking both a moon AND an exploding star, or not even registering Storm throwing her full power at him. They are not remotely comparable, and it would take such a high level of spam that would likely make Greninja utterly exhausted multiple times over to get on this level of attack power.
All right lets dive into this one. Jumping high isn’t as good as flying for sure but it’s close enough in this case where it shouldn’t matter because he will be staying one step ahead of Galactus the whole time anyway. So Galactus just won’t be able to do anything here. At best you can hope that he will tank the blasts but he isn’t fast enough to do anything which is the problem. You can’t win if you’re not landing blows.
As for Greninja being exhausted, that’s because he was up against Mega Charizard, one of the most powerful Pokemon in creation. Anyone including Galactus would be tired after that. Galactus can tank for a while but we’ve been through this, it would be over for him. He will often go down after being hit enough like when Ghost Rider showed up in the cartoon or when Thor knocked him to the ground in Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Greninja can easily match that with his concentrated water blasts.
To put it into perspective if you see this video at the 1 minute mark, Charizard’s single punch made a huge crater in the forest
And Greninja’s attacks were cancelling this guy’s power out. That’s ludicrous amounts of power right there and Greninja’s just getting started! So that’s how it holds up to a legion of heroes firing their blasts. They haven’t shown me that they can attack with this level of power. The moon and exploding star are not as impressive as tanking actual attacks since they’re just explosions.
Not even if all grains of sands from a beach should sink back into the water will Greninja win this, even if the process was sped up to last 16 seconds instead of years.
Greninja hits different though. He should really be able to make Galactus sweat it out here with those punishing attacks
I seem to recall reading in the comics that Thor defeated Galactus. Dreager1, how do you see this battle going?
Definitely, Thor has the edge against Galactus. Similar to Greninja, Thor has the massive speed advantage here and can quickly drain his health
Starting a new comment thread because I’m tired of scrolling back and forth so muc
“All right lets dive into this one. Jumping high isn’t as good as flying for sure but it’s close enough in this case where it shouldn’t matter because he will be staying one step ahead of Galactus the whole time anyway. So Galactus just won’t be able to do anything here. At best you can hope that he will tank the blasts but he isn’t fast enough to do anything which is the problem. You can’t win if you’re not landing blows.”
Ok so you flat out admit jumping isn’t as good, so it’s nothing that Galactus will be bothered by and/or seen before.The rest of this is just assertions you’ll get into later here so I’ll just move on to the next paragraph.
“As for Greninja being exhausted, that’s because he was up against Mega Charizard, one of the most powerful Pokemon in creation. Anyone including Galactus would be tired after that. Galactus can tank for a while but we’ve been through this, it would be over for him. He will often go down after being hit enough like when Ghost Rider showed up in the cartoon or when Thor knocked him to the ground in Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Greninja can easily match that with his concentrated water blasts.”
Again you get into Mega Charizard a bit later, so I’ll save my response to that for later. When you use a composite character Dreager, you don’t just get to downplay the stronger feats they have because another depiction of them has weaker feats. So the whole Ghost Rider/Thor thing is irrelevant because he has better feats to counter that from different depictions of him. So this point is utterly moot. That’s what happens when you use a composite, Dreager.
“To put it into perspective if you see this video at the 1 minute mark, Charizard’s single punch made a huge crater in the forest”
Lol no it didn’t. You can literally see after the battle no such crater is there. Mega Absol is simply on the ground defeated, there is no visible crater afterwards. And to make sure of this I looked a up a video that shows more of the fight. I tried finding this crater you were talking about, but it’s simply not there. Or at least one that lasts. The one I see lasts for like two seconds as its hitting Mega Absol and then just dissipates somehow. And this crater is pretty much just two or three Mega Absol lengths long based on what we see anyways. If it like permanently wrecked the entire area in which they were battling, I might be with you a little bit on the power of this. But that’s simply not what’s shown here.
So this? This is your reasoning that “Mega Charizard is one of the most powerful Pokemon in creation”? That “anyone including Galactus would be tired after that”? Really man? Come on dude it’s really not as impressive as you’re making it out to be.
The video I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoArjjwCOAQ
“And Greninja’s attacks were cancelling this guy’s power out. That’s ludicrous amounts of power right there and Greninja’s just getting started! So that’s how it holds up to a legion of heroes firing their blasts. They haven’t shown me that they can attack with this level of power. The moon and exploding star are not as impressive as tanking actual attacks since they’re just explosions.”
So since you showed something that doesn’t show nearly as much power as you hyped up, I really don’t care if Greninja’s attacks were cancelling this out. Based on what you showed, it’s not nearly as powerful as what you said it was. So you can’t say that a legion of heroes blasting the same dude with concentrated energy blasts is inferior to one pokemon with a concentrated water blast with feats like that. It’s simply not enough.Especially when those attacks Greninja was cancelling aren’t all that impressive based on simple observation.
Being covered in the incinerating heat of an exploding star aka a supernova is far more impressive. Direct attack or not, that reaches temperatures of about 1 billion degrees Celsius. And the moon is not just an explosion? It’s also an actual attack, as Silver Surfer attacked Galactus directly with it, which yeah isn’t as concentrated as a water blast, but it’s definitely not “just an exlposion”
You still can’t provide proper evidence for this, and i’m still completely unconvinced.
All right so lets take this one point by hype point. Jumping isn’t as good but it’s so close that it’s almost the same thing. It’s like comparing water to mineral water. Sure, the mineral one might be a bit chunkier but the effects are about the same so it doesn’t matter all that much.
Now with composite I agree that the highest feats have to be considered a lot but you also have to remember that the weak ones still exist and keep on going. Popular characters like Galactus suffer from this big time because all they can do is stand around and get pounded. There isn’t a whole lot that they can do to defend themselves so you really want to look at the kinds of attacks that can bring them down. We should both agree that Greninja can easily outpower the Ultimate Nullifier. In every continuity where that weapon appears it doesn’t look super powerful and yet it brings down Galactus.
The crater dissipating is more of an animation quirk. The fact that it was there at all is the most telling part and that was a casual blow. So imagine when they go all out and surpass their limits? I’m just saying that Galactus has never gone up against an opponent like this. I checked out the link you attached and either one of those fighters would roll Galactus. Did you see the absolute crazy amounts of power they were dishing out? Galactus is not touching them at all, not with that speed and firepower.
A legion of heroes blasting Galactus just isn’t the same as these level of hits but I understand you are unconvinced right now so it’s time to bring in the big guns. Let me show you the gap in abilities on why Galactus could never hope to defeat an opponent this powerful.
-Greninja attacking so quickly and powerfully that he took out a ninja who can move faster than the eye can see.
Another crater since you weren’t impressed by the last one
He can cut nearly invincible crystals
Some more speed hype although he can already run rings around Galactus so it may be piling on top of a mountain at this point
Finally I think you were the most concerned about his durability so lets take a look at that.
He tanks an incredible hit from Sceptile and keeps going
He even blocks a hyper beam
Here’s a link to the rest of the feats but honestly after checking this out, the battle seems to be an even bigger stomp than I could have dared hope for. I need to go back and rewatch the Kalos region
“All right so lets take this one point by hype point. Jumping isn’t as good but it’s so close that it’s almost the same thing. It’s like comparing water to mineral water. Sure, the mineral one might be a bit chunkier but the effects are about the same so it doesn’t matter all that much.”
It 100% matters. Regular flight allows you far more control in how you attack, whereas with jumping there’s generally less control and time to put forth attacks. It’s not as simple as slightly different water, it’s the difference between a limited type of flight that has a smaller window of opportunity or one that isn’t limited and provides a larger window with more varied options. And if even if they were almost the same thing, it would still be nothing that Galactus hasn’t seen before. So it’s still unimpressive and unconvincing.
“Now with composite I agree that the highest feats have to be considered a lot but you also have to remember that the weak ones still exist and keep on going. Popular characters like Galactus suffer from this big time because all they can do is stand around and get pounded. There isn’t a whole lot that they can do to defend themselves so you really want to look at the kinds of attacks that can bring them down. We should both agree that Greninja can easily outpower the Ultimate Nullifier. In every continuity where that weapon appears it doesn’t look super powerful and yet it brings down Galactus.”
So the Ultimate Nullifier is literally a weapon that can kill anything. Like that’s literally the description of the weapon. It’s a cosmic artifact specifically designed for that purpose. So no shit it can kill Galactus, even if it doesn’t look impressive.There is nothing in Greninja’s repertoire of attacks at all that meet this standard. And you don’t just get to handwave Galactus’ stronger feats because weaker ones exist. There’s no point in using composites in that case if you aren’t prioritizing him at his strongest. You should just use a specific version of him if you’re going to do that.
“The crater dissipating is more of an animation quirk. The fact that it was there at all is the most telling part and that was a casual blow. So imagine when they go all out and surpass their limits? I’m just saying that Galactus has never gone up against an opponent like this. I checked out the link you attached and either one of those fighters would roll Galactus. Did you see the absolute crazy amounts of power they were dishing out? Galactus is not touching them at all, not with that speed and firepower.”
It’s not an animation quirk.How do I know that? Because even in one of the clips you show there are clear cracks in the ground from an attack. Mind you, i’m still not impressed by it, but it shows that when the creators and animators want to show lasting damage, they can. It’s clear that the animators did not intend for Mega Charizard to actually make a lasting crater there. the “crazy amounts of power they were dishing out” is not anything that Galactus hasn’t seen before.
And now it’s finally time for a substantial amount of clips of Greninja fighting. It took you almost 7 months to actually provide this. That’s a frankly embarrassing amount of time to provide this sort of thing. So let’s go clip by clip
1/2. Since these clips are related I need to address them both at the same time. First of all, Galactus has been up against superheroes perfectly capable of moving at speeds that would likely be unable to be perceived by the naked eye. Thor and Silver Surfer easily reach hypersonic speeds so this isn’t much of an issue. And hell the first clip doesn’t show the old ninja even attempting to showcase any speed feat. It’s simply Greninja and Bisharp going at it. Not impressive
3. No crater shown, only some cracks in the ground at most. Not that impressive, and nothing compared to being bombarded by 1 billion degree heat all over one’s body and no selling it.
4. Cool, he cut through some tough crystals. And you have nothing else proving they’re “invincible”, so all it really shows it that he cut through some mildly tough crystals. Not impressive whatsoever.
5. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to show here. There’s nothing here displaying any particularly quick movement here. It’s just Ash getting hyped up and Greninja floating down. Not impressive.
6. I’m more concerned about Greninja’s stamina and being able to actually damage Galactus significantly, so this isn’t helpful. He’s got some decent durability i’ll give him that but it’s still shown that this blow did some serious damage, so this makes me even more concerned.
7. Again I’m not particularly concerned about Greninja’s durability, I’m far more concerned about you proving that Greninja’s attacks are powerful enough to take down Galactus before he gets too tired to continue to fight back. Which you still haven’t convinced me of at all.So this isn’t really what i’m looking for.
Very unconvincing videos that really don’t show what you think they do. This is nothing that Galactus is going to be phased by, because none of them are comparable to the exploding sun feat, which showcases a lot more destructive power on a larger scale. Still a complete failure to convince me, and it’s quite sad that these videos convinced you Greninja wins even more here.
I don’t know what to tell you because those Greninja videos were pure fire. They certainly convinced me and I wasn’t even on the fence before then. Look, Greninja’s power and speed were shown to be completely out of this world. So what can Galactus do about that at all?
The ultimate Nullifier says it can do all of that but from what we saw it is just a decent cannon gun. Nothing super special that would cause Greninja any worries so what makes you think Galactus could take on those powerful attacks?
Lets get back to basics here. The fight revolves around 3 things. Can Greninja dodge Galactus attacks? Can he damage Galactus? And finally, can he hold out long enough to pull this off? The answer to all 3 of those is yes as we saw here. That’s why Greninja takes the win. Galactus can’t really keep up at all.
You keep going back to the exploding sun feat but I would counter that Greninja casually causing a crater the way he did is infinitely more impressive. Characters just don’t do that sort of thing and yet he did so how do we explain that? These are concentrated attacks as opposed to explosions and yet he’s outputting that kind of power.
For point 7, I’d refer you back to point 1. Greninja created a little crater with his power so Galactus isn’t standing up to that.
For point 5, impressing Ash is a big deal since he’s seen just about everything by this point in the series.
For 1-2, that ninja was able to disappear in the earlier clip yet he wasn’t fast enough to get out of the way which shows how hard Greninja hit Bisharp. That goes back into why he would damage Galactus because he has proven his abilities here.
Composite is about the strongest versions but they’re still found lacking most of the time. Galactus gets taken out by other cosmic beings all the time and that shows his limits while Greninja’s is only the time limit that he can’t maintain his powered up mode for very long. After around 10-15 minutes its gone but a whole lot can happen in that period of time. Imagine him slicing Galactus with the blades he used to destroy those incredibly powerful crystals. He could potentially slice Galactus in two if he has enough momentum and even Galactus couldn’t get up from that. His armor just won’t be able to hold. (Or skin, I always forget but I think he is just wearing a fancy suit with a barrier and Greninja can cut that)
“The ultimate Nullifier says it can do all of that but from what we saw it is just a decent cannon gun. Nothing super special that would cause Greninja any worries so what makes you think Galactus could take on those powerful attacks?”
It’s a weapon designed to kill anything, it doesn’t have to look impressive to do it’s job. End of story, do not bring up this point again.
“Lets get back to basics here. The fight revolves around 3 things. Can Greninja dodge Galactus attacks? Can he damage Galactus? And finally, can he hold out long enough to pull this off? The answer to all 3 of those is yes as we saw here. That’s why Greninja takes the win. Galactus can’t really keep up at all.”
The fight revolves around two things, Can he damage Galactus, and can he hold out long enough to pull this off. I don’t give a single flying fuck about whether he can dodge Galactus’ attacks because my argument is that it does not matter, because I do not believe he will be able to damage Galactus.
“You keep going back to the exploding sun feat but I would counter that Greninja casually causing a crater the way he did is infinitely more impressive. Characters just don’t do that sort of thing and yet he did so how do we explain that? These are concentrated attacks as opposed to explosions and yet he’s outputting that kind of power.”
First of all, the video you’ve shown for this does not show an actual crater, it shows some cracks in the ground. And even if it did make a crater, it’s not that big.If you want to get into Galactus tanking similar damage, he’s no selled attacks from far more powerful weapons. For this I’ll be using Mjolnir as an example
Here’s Thor opening up a large chasm with Mjolnir (which is far closer to a crater than what you’ve provided here)
Two examples of him destroying mountains
Destroying large monuments like they’re nothing
Destroying large rocks which at least one is about the size of Chicago
All of these are more impressive than the “crater” (because it isn’t a crater) you’ve shown here.And again Galactus tanks Mjolnir’s blows like they’re nothing. He takes this level of power and basically tells it to shove it. You want your example of him tanking a powerful concentrated attack, there it is. Just because they didn’t necessarily create a “crater” doesn’t mean that they aren’t easily shown as superior feats than what you showed with this video. They simply aren’t on the same level.
“For point 7, I’d refer you back to point 1. Greninja created a little crater with his power so Galactus isn’t standing up to that.
For point 5, impressing Ash is a big deal since he’s seen just about everything by this point in the series.
For 1-2, that ninja was able to disappear in the earlier clip yet he wasn’t fast enough to get out of the way which shows how hard Greninja hit Bisharp. That goes back into why he would damage Galactus because he has proven his abilities here.”
The first section i’ve already discussed how that “crater” isn’t impressive compared to what Galactus has tanked in the past so it doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. And i’m thoroughly convinced at this point that you don’t understand what making a crater actually means, so I’m inclined to ignore this even more.
For Point 5, you’ve made an entirely irrelevant point based on pure hype. Ash is an excitable and intense person, it’s not surprising that he gets excited and intense in a Pokemon battle.It’s what he’s dedicated his life to doing.It’s not an indication that Greninja is massively powerful. Especially when the video doesn’t showcase Greninja actually executing any sort of attack.
For 1-2, the ninja guy clearly wasn’t even attempting to move. And let’s say he And this attack is nothing special, there’s no lasting effects to the environment around them or anything. It was literally just a decently powerful punch that didn’t seem to do all that much significant damage to Bisharp.It’s certainly nothing compared to Mjolnir wrecking all the shit i detailed above.
“Composite is about the strongest versions but they’re still found lacking most of the time. Galactus gets taken out by other cosmic beings all the time and that shows his limits while Greninja’s is only the time limit that he can’t maintain his powered up mode for very long. After around 10-15 minutes its gone but a whole lot can happen in that period of time. Imagine him slicing Galactus with the blades he used to destroy those incredibly powerful crystals. He could potentially slice Galactus in two if he has enough momentum and even Galactus couldn’t get up from that. His armor just won’t be able to hold. (Or skin, I always forget but I think he is just wearing a fancy suit with a barrier and Greninja can cut that)”
Do you genuinely believe that Greninja is some sort of cosmic level being? If you do that’s pure unadulterated wankery Dreager. There’s no other way I can describe it. There’s absolutely nothing that you’ve shown here that proves that Greninja is anywhere near that level of power, and it’s comical that you even invoke any such comparison. And as for the crystals? You have yet to prove that they’re really all that powerful or as you said when you showed them: “invincible”. You just showed the video and asserted that they were ridiculously durable to the point they could give Galactus a run for his money. And then you proceeded to provide no evidence for this argument. Still utterly unconvinced and very confident in my position.
All right, let me dismantle this one part at a time. For Greninja, while I don’t believe he’s cosmic, he’s certainly stronger than most cosmic beings. I’d take him any day over the likes of Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Kronos, and even Galactus. He has speed and power that are completely out of their realm. Pokemon as a verse is just a little too high tier. While Marvel would likely win with sheer numbers, Pokemon has the much higher ceiling and it shows with characters like Greninja.
The videos have really helped my case here. For 1-2, the ninja may not have tried to dodge but you could also just say that he wasn’t in a position where dodging would have even been possible. That’s the high level of power I’m talking about here that ends up being rather terrifying. There’s just nothing anyone could have done to stop that punch. It may not have done devastating damage to the universe but it certainly did leave an impact.
For 5 I can grant you that Ash does tend to get hyped a lot so it could be fair to say that this is why he was so emotional and it wasn’t purely because of Greninja.
I’m not sold on the Nullifier though. It has to look impressive or it’s just not so good so this being enough to defeat Galactus on multiple occasions is a strike against the guy. What’s to stop Greninja from just beating the living daylights out of him with a concentrated hydro pump the way the Nullifier blasts him?
I’d say speed is still important since Greninja clobbers him there but okay lets go to the other two avenues. Either way that just works out even more for Greninja. In terms of stamina I’d just submit the same fight again. Greninja has shown that he can keep on ticking even after getting absolutely devastated with physical blows. I’d like to see Galactus try and knock the fight out of him.
As for the offensive power, the fact that he could break the crystals with such ease tells you all that you need to know about this. He won’t be going down and will just secure the victory. The destruction feats you showed are very good but the impressive part for Greninja is that he’s pulling all of this during an active fight while moving at super speed and leveraging his abilities. Nobody is ready for that kind of smoke.
So all in all it still comes down to the fact that Galactus would end up getting demolished here because he can’t keep up with Greninja in speed and would not have the durability to survive his attacks
“All right, let me dismantle this one part at a time. For Greninja, while I don’t believe he’s cosmic, he’s certainly stronger than most cosmic beings. I’d take him any day over the likes of Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Kronos, and even Galactus. He has speed and power that are completely out of their realm. Pokemon as a verse is just a little too high tier. While Marvel would likely win with sheer numbers, Pokemon has the much higher ceiling and it shows with characters like Greninja.”
This is blatantly false Dreager. I’ve shown you multiple times that Greninja’s level of power isn’t impressive compared to people like Thor for instance. Which of course you’ve conveniently ignored. And I really don’t care about how powerful the verse itself is, remember it’s about the individual Pokemon, and you still have yet to be at all convincing that Greninja is anything special compared to what Galactus has been against. And you have yet to prove Greninja’s speed is at all comparable to the cosmic beings you’ve listed. Again this is unadulterated wankery.
“The videos have really helped my case here. For 1-2, the ninja may not have tried to dodge but you could also just say that he wasn’t in a position where dodging would have even been possible. That’s the high level of power I’m talking about here that ends up being rather terrifying. There’s just nothing anyone could have done to stop that punch. It may not have done devastating damage to the universe but it certainly did leave an impact.”
Cool, even if he wasn’t in a position to dodge its totally irrelevant because dodging isn’t even something that Galactus has to bother with. And that punch simply sent an opponent of equal size flying. There were no shockwaves, and it doesn’t even show Bisharp bruised whatsoever. The impact it left isn’t at all impressive compared to the scans I provided for Mjolnir.
“I’m not sold on the Nullifier though. It has to look impressive or it’s just not so good so this being enough to defeat Galactus on multiple occasions is a strike against the guy. What’s to stop Greninja from just beating the living daylights out of him with a concentrated hydro pump the way the Nullifier blasts him?”
What’s stopping Greninja? Well from what we’ve seen of the Nullifier, it straight up erases beings from existence. There’s no possible way even the most concentrated hydro pump could replicate that. They simply aren’t equivalent attacks, and again you haven’t proven at all that they will do significant damage to Galactus.
“I’d say speed is still important since Greninja clobbers him there but okay lets go to the other two avenues. Either way that just works out even more for Greninja. In terms of stamina I’d just submit the same fight again. Greninja has shown that he can keep on ticking even after getting absolutely devastated with physical blows. I’d like to see Galactus try and knock the fight out of him.”
How many times to I have to say this? My argument isn’t based off of Galactus knocking the fight out of Greninja directly! It’s based on Greninja being able to do significant enough damage to Galactus before they tire THEMSELVES out. Stop distorting my argument to suit your narrative.
“As for the offensive power, the fact that he could break the crystals with such ease tells you all that you need to know about this. He won’t be going down and will just secure the victory. The destruction feats you showed are very good but the impressive part for Greninja is that he’s pulling all of this during an active fight while moving at super speed and leveraging his abilities. Nobody is ready for that kind of smoke.”
You haven’t shown what else those crystals can tank for damage, so I have nothing to base this attack power off of. And I don’t think you’re getting what the point of those scans were. They were to demonstrate that the attack power Greninja has is simply not impressive, even if your videos showed him in action. You act as if Thor is completely unable to use his own hammer in an active fight. This level of attack power can easily be used in an active fight, Thor doesn’t just stop being able to use Mjolnir at max capacity because of that.
“So all in all it still comes down to the fact that Galactus would end up getting demolished here because he can’t keep up with Greninja in speed and would not have the durability to survive his attacks”
Speed doesn’t matter to my argument because it is very OOC for Galactus to even care about dodging. And you have yet to prove that Greninja’s attack power is anything special. Still utterly unconvinced.
All right, it’s time to convince you here. I know speed isn’t too important for you here since while Galactus gets speedblitzed to oblivion, it’s the damage you want to see. Well, Greninja has been outputting that kind of damage for a while now. His water attacks are just absolutely devastating and he can keep them up for a while.
For the crystals, they are really tough but it’s hard to quantify exactly. A think a researcher or something said they were nearly unbreakable. As for the damage Galactus was taking, sure it’s definitely impressive. Don’t want to take away from it, but I didn’t see anything that Greninja couldn’t do. Just like Thor throwing his hammer was impressive, Greninja can throw his shruiken.
Greninja won’t tire himself out like that though. At best he will run out of his ash form but then he still has his base mode which is still really impressive if I do say so myself. Galactus won’t be able to knock the fight out of him in the same way that Greninja won’t just sputter out. He’s far too advanced and skilled for that.
I’ll rest on the Nullifier point since it’s hard to scale Greninja’s attacks to that. I do stand by the Pokemon verse being stronger than Marvel though and Greninja is near the top of the Pokemon rankings so that already goes pretty far for him as well. I don’t know what else I could bring to the table aside from all those craters. I thought they were really impressive at least, I hadn’t seen anything quite like it in a while from the Pokemon battles. They went all in on the Mega fights
“For the crystals, they are really tough but it’s hard to quantify exactly. A think a researcher or something said they were nearly unbreakable. As for the damage Galactus was taking, sure it’s definitely impressive. Don’t want to take away from it, but I didn’t see anything that Greninja couldn’t do. Just like Thor throwing his hammer was impressive, Greninja can throw his shruiken.”
You “think a researcher or something” said they were nearly unbreakable. First of all, them being “unbreakable” is exceedingly vague, it gives zero idea about what it means by that. Secondly, you know that’s not convincing whatsoever, as you’re not showing any evidence for it whatsoever. And cool, Greninja can throw his shuriken. That so wasn’t my point at all, and you should know that. The point isn’t the act of throwing it,it’s the point that you have yet to prove Greninja can compete with that level of power in any capacity.
“Greninja won’t tire himself out like that though. At best he will run out of his ash form but then he still has his base mode which is still really impressive if I do say so myself. Galactus won’t be able to knock the fight out of him in the same way that Greninja won’t just sputter out. He’s far too advanced and skilled for that.”
What you’ve shown for Greninja for all of their feats is utterly unimpressive. They don’t show any amount of power that Galactus hasn’t tanked before whether it’s Ash Form or not. There’s a mix of Ash Form and non Ash Form feats that you showed above. Even watching the Bisharp battle again for longer clearly shows that it was based on Greninja being newly evolved and there was a clear burst of power that came from it. And even with that large burst of power all Greninja did was run in a straight line quickly and punch Bisharp with no lasting damage. If Greninja doesn’t have Ash Form he doesn’t have access to his strongest attacks which puts him at a further disadvantage since i’m not impressed by the Ash Form stuff anyways.
“I’ll rest on the Nullifier point since it’s hard to scale Greninja’s attacks to that. I do stand by the Pokemon verse being stronger than Marvel though and Greninja is near the top of the Pokemon rankings so that already goes pretty far for him as well. I don’t know what else I could bring to the table aside from all those craters. I thought they were really impressive at least, I hadn’t seen anything quite like it in a while from the Pokemon battles. They went all in on the Mega fights”
It’s. Not. A. Fucking. Crater. You can clearly see in the video there’s no crater. At MOST there’s some cracks shown. And they aren’t even that large compared to what I showed for Thor, someone who Galactus can no sell.And you don’t get to pretend this is a simple animation problem like you did with the other “crater”. There is no crater shown, and even if there was, it wouldn’t be that big anyways based on what’s shown. It’s not impressive Dreager, full stop. As for the Marvel vs Pokemon verse thing, I really don’t care which one is technically more powerful. It’s about whether Greninja specifically is superior to the characters I talked about Galactus going up against. And it’s blatantly apparent by both the feats i’ve described/shown along with what you’ve shown yourself that Greninja simply isn’t as impressive as what Galactus has gone up against. You’re not going to convince me with these points Dreager, not at all.
Yeah I can see how the crystals part isn’t too convincing there. I’ll see if I can find a few more good attack feats. It looks like Greninja may be returning for the world championships so I can see some good feats there. In the meantime he was able to casually block a significant energy blast with his shruiken.
That should take care of Galactus trying to fire off any energy blasts to hit Greninja with although his speed is sufficient.
Greninja casually blocking the thunder punch
Now this is the money shot, the point that might finally convince you. Charizard was able to launch Absol across almost the entire forest with a single dragon claw
But Greninja had the power to stop this attack rather effortlessly.
That should resolve any doubts about his raw power. Greninja will absolutely be able to seriously/lethally wound Galactus in a fight here. This is why I put so much stock in his power and I can feel the stocks rising. Greninja has no shortage of impressive power displays in the anime because he was Ash’s ace for the season. It’s just crazy how powerful this guy is and that’s why I love Greninja now. He has quickly become one of the best Pokemon out there.
So with that Greninja is fast enough to dodge all attacks and strong enough to put Galactus down for good. I think this should be the nail in Galactus’ coffin but I’ll have some more feats at the ready just in case
“Yeah I can see how the crystals part isn’t too convincing there. I’ll see if I can find a few more good attack feats. It looks like Greninja may be returning for the world championships so I can see some good feats there. In the meantime he was able to casually block a significant energy blast with his shruiken.”
“That should take care of Galactus trying to fire off any energy blasts to hit Greninja with although his speed is sufficient.”
Don’t care about what he can block. I’ve made this clear that my argument has nothing to do with Greninja simply being able to block attacks. It’s about whether Greninja has enough raw power to significantly damage Galactus. Irrelevant point is irrelevant. This feat will be dismissed in further comments, don’t bother using it again.
“Greninja casually blocking the thunder punch”
Also irrelevant to my argument, in the exact same way the last one was. This feat will also be dismissed in further comments,don’t bother using it again.
“Now this is the money shot, the point that might finally convince you. Charizard was able to launch Absol across almost the entire forest with a single dragon claw”
A) It didn’t do that much destruction to the forest around it
B) Absol at most is shaking after this hit, indicating he’s still perfectly capable of fighting
C) It’s still not nearly as impressive as the stuff Galactus can tank with zero issue.
This feat will also be dismissed in further comments as it’s again irrelevant to addressing my argument.
“That should resolve any doubts about his raw power. Greninja will absolutely be able to seriously/lethally wound Galactus in a fight here. This is why I put so much stock in his power and I can feel the stocks rising. Greninja has no shortage of impressive power displays in the anime because he was Ash’s ace for the season. It’s just crazy how powerful this guy is and that’s why I love Greninja now. He has quickly become one of the best Pokemon out there.”
This paragraph is purely hype based off of unimpressive feats that will likely do nothing significant to Galactus, that are also a complete distraction from what I actually care about in this battle. None of these points actually show Greninja utilizing these supposedly powerful moves. They’re all just him blocking stuff. The most you show is Greninja kicking Mega Charizard after the Dragon Claw, which just knocks him back and does no significant damage.
“So with that Greninja is fast enough to dodge all attacks and strong enough to put Galactus down for good. I think this should be the nail in Galactus’ coffin but I’ll have some more feats at the ready just in case”
Don’t care about what Greninja can dodge, and you’ve only shown him blocking stuff, which I also don’t care about. I care about one thing and one thing only. I only want to see feats that directly show Greninja attacking something with its own moves. No blocking feats, no dodging feats, they’re entirely irrelevant to my points. Still utterly unconvinced.
All right I can give you some more raw power feats here then. Check out Greninja landing which causes a lot of destruction to the ground but he kept his balance.
Note that this is his weaker evolution so this scales up.
Here he punches Treeko so hard there is a shockwave.
Breaks right through the ground with ease!
Kicks so hard that there’s a crater on the ground.
Kicks so fast and hard Lucario broke through the wall and Goh couldn’t even see him.
Breaking through pure ice.
Kicking so hard that the opponent became a blur.
Like I said, this guy’s power is absolutely insane. So when you mix in his speed, durability, battle intelligence, stamina, hype, and attack variety then it’s all over. There’s just no escape here and Greninja is absolutely not going down without a fight. That’s just not his MO.
Now I don’t want to get lost in the sauce so to speak or forget myself in the hype but this shows that Greninja is a cut above the rest. If he can damage these Pokemon so badly then he can certainly damage Galactus and from there he can win with his speed. The main tricky thing was proving that he can damage Galactus and so now that we’ve got that into play, the rest of the match is history. Galactus has no way to actually land any blows or keep up with Greninja.
“All right I can give you some more raw power feats here then. Check out Greninja landing which causes a lot of destruction to the ground but he kept his balance.”
Cool, this isn’t an attack feat, he doesn’t actually use this to attack anyone.Not a impressive as no selling a full moon being thrown at you.. Irrelevant feat, will be ignored in future.
“Here he punches Treeko so hard there is a shockwave.”
So he punches a small unevolved Pokémon across an arena with a tiny shockwave that ends up not even fainting Treecko. Not as impressive as no selling a whole moon. Insignificant feat that barely shows any power. Will be ignored in future comments.
“Kicks so hard that there’s a crater on the ground.”
Cool, he launches this Pokémon into the ground in a crater that’s about its size. Galactus is way bigger and has taken far more impressive hits. Insignificant feat that will be ignored in future comments.
“Kicks so fast and hard Lucario broke through the wall and Goh couldn’t even see him.”
You’ve given no indication that Goh has any enhanced perception so it’s not all that quick and Lucario also isn’t fainted by this move. He’s just catching his breath. And again Galactus has taken far more impressive hits and kept going zero problem. Insignificant feat that will be ignored in further comments.
“Breaking through pure ice.”
Are we seriously comparing Galactus to icebergs now? Come on you know this isn’t nearly as impressive as anything Galactus goes up against. Another feat that will be ignored in further comments purely because it’s not that powerful.
“Kicking so hard that the opponent became a blur.”
The most it does is faint this Pokémon and leave some bruises. And again, this does not indicate that Galactus would suffer anywhere near the same fate. He’s taken way more powerful blunt blows as I’ve shown with Mjolnir’s power and the moon impact feat. Another unimpressive feat that will be ignored later on.
“Like I said, this guy’s power is absolutely insane. So when you mix in his speed, durability, battle intelligence, stamina, hype, and attack variety then it’s all over. There’s just no escape here and Greninja is absolutely not going down without a fight. That’s just not his MO.”
Speed is irrelevant since he’s nothing special against what Galactus has fought
Greninja’s durability/stamina is also irrelevant as I care more about Galactus’ since none of these feats you’ve shown are even close to competing to the ones I’ve discussed.
Attack variety/intelligence mean nothing since you haven’t even begun to prove that attacks are powerful compared to what Galactus has no selled and intelligence means nothing if Greninja can’t power through Galactus.
And hype is obviously purely subjective so it means literally nothing.
“Now I don’t want to get lost in the sauce so to speak or forget myself in the hype but this shows that Greninja is a cut above the rest. If he can damage these Pokemon so badly then he can certainly damage Galactus and from there he can win with his speed. The main tricky thing was proving that he can damage Galactus and so now that we’ve got that into play, the rest of the match is history. Galactus has no way to actually land any blows or keep up with Greninja.”
Every single feat you listed is showing that you’ve continually gotten yourself more and more lost in the hype. They don’t remotely scale to any of Galactus’ major feats. The thing you seem to not understand is that Greninja being a cut above the rest of a lot of Pokémon does not make him ready to take on Galactus. Because none of those Pokémon are anything special compared to the lineup of enemies Galactus takes a bunch of hits from like it’s nothing. Pokémon as a verse has creatures that can take on Marvel characters. But nothing shown proves these Pokémon or Greninja can take on Galactus specifically, let alone win. That’s just taking it several orders of magnitude too far and trying to equate feats that are just generally smaller in scale to what Galactus has faced. Again I believe you HAVE gotten too lost in the sauce trying to see things that simply aren’t apparent. Still utterly unconvinced.
I brought up so many good feats for Greninja though. Feels like I’ve gone through all of his fights and then some. I suppose I can start trying to look into the manga or stuff for more feats but this was really peak.
So to recap, Greninja is faster than Galactus and has a wider attack arsenal. So we agree that Galactus can’t hit him but the issue is whether Greninja can keep up the offensive assault long enough to take Galactus out before he runs out of power. I don’t see why all of those craters don’t show why he would take Galactus down though. Whenever an attack leaves a crater like that then it’s doing absolutely devastating damage.
Galactus has some good durability feats for sure like tanking the Moon but I’m just not sure that this is really enough for me to put him on the level where he could stand up to Greninja like that. Sure, it means he should be in some high level conversations there but he still has no way to stop Greninja or tank his moves.
As for being lost in the sauce, I know that can happen but I feel like I’m keeping myself grounded by going through all of these attacks one by one. Lets take Greninja breaking out of the ice. While it doesn’t look impressive, it takes a lot of force to break out like that when you’re already completely frozen solid like that. He had to somehow work up the strength to flex his way out of that which should have been absolutely impossible.
Then him kicking the Pokemon into the ground so hard he became a blur. I think the part to really focus on there is the blur. You have to really kick someone hard for them to be moving that quickly. It’s the kind of feat that is the most impressive because the show didn’t even have to break it down. You just saw the whole thing in motion and that was it. There was no way to calc it specifically but the power was really impressive.
I should have a bunch of new feats soon since there are rumors that Greninja will be used in the upcoming championship battles but in the meantime I’ll see about grabbing more cool power feats. Greninja really is crazy lethal at this point.
So to illustrate my point I’m going to take every attack feat you referenced in this comment and compare it to if you replaced Greninja’s attack with the impact of a moon. Remember that speed is irrelevant to my argument, pure durability and attack power is what matters.
“Lets take Greninja breaking out of the ice. While it doesn’t look impressive, it takes a lot of force to break out like that when you’re already completely frozen solid like that. He had to somehow work up the strength to flex his way out of that which should have been absolutely impossible.”
If we replace this with the impact of an entire moon it’s clear that the moon would do many hundreds of times more damage than what Greninja did to the ice. It would utterly decimate it along with leaving a crater that is so much larger than anything you’ve shown Greninja or any Pokémon here making.
“Then him kicking the Pokemon into the ground so hard he became a blur. I think the part to really focus on there is the blur. You have to really kick someone hard for them to be moving that quickly. It’s the kind of feat that is the most impressive because the show didn’t even have to break it down. You just saw the whole thing in motion and that was it. There was no way to calc it specifically but the power was really impressive.”
Again let’s replace the blur kick with the moon. In this case there would be nothing but a bloody paste of a Pokémon after completely crushing it. And like before there would be a massive crater that dwarfs everything you’ve shown many times over.
The same thing with the Bisharp and Treecko feats. And they follow the same basic pattern. Basic hit that knocks them away and at most knocks them out and gives them some bruises. To compare this to the power the impact of a moon would cause is simply delusional.
Greninja would require a frankly insane amount of attacks to even be equivalent to that. And this is an attack Galactus tanked with zero issue. This one moon throw is hundreds of times more powerful than anything you’ve shown Greninja doing.
So in summation all of the feats you’ve shown for Greninja are many times less powerful than the impact of a moon, which Galactus took with zero damage. It would require many, many attacks to even be equivalent to something he tanked with ZERO damage. This is why I believe you’re lost in the sauce. These feats are not good enough for this exact reasons.
It would require hundreds if not thousands of attacks from Greninja to even put a dent in Galactus and I’m being generous.
That’s going to put a large amount of strain on Greninja’s body and general stamina. If this is peak Greninja, then I remain firm in my position that Greninja will tire themselves out before doing any significant damage to Galactus and no feat you’ve provided has remotely changed my mind. Still utterly unconvinced.
All right it’s an interesting idea to replace that with the Moon. My counter would be that Greninja can attack very quickly in rapid succession. So even though one individual hit may not match up to the power of the Moon hit, the repeated blows would. Would you rather get hit by the Moon or take 50 punches from Greninja that are leaving craters with each impact? At least with the Moon you get it over with but with the repeated hits you will just be taking maximum damage and head trauma the whole time.
So we’ll keep the speed out of this for now. With Greninja’s shockwave type punches he could keep hitting Galactus so hard that the guy would have a concussion. Taking that many hits can even override your durability or healing factor like how Hulk was able to take out Wolverine back in the World War Hulk saga. (Or it might have been Planet Hulk.
With Greninja zipping in and out as he lands dozens and dozens of blows on Galactus in an instant, they’re going to really add up quickly.
He’s also got his massive shuriken star
If this hits Galactus straight up it’s hard to see it not dealing some serious damage. If Greninja throws a few more of those in then that would be gamer over.
Galactus would have to try and keep his defenses up at all times to last until Greninja tires himself out but I don’t think he will be able to last quite so long. Greninja is just built different and those attacks would keep on coming without delay. Can you imagine what it would feel like for Galactus to know that a bunch of attacks are coming his way but there is absolutely nothing that he can do to stop them? It would have to be absolutely maddening from his point of view and that’s another level of stress on top of being hit the whole time.
“All right it’s an interesting idea to replace that with the Moon. My counter would be that Greninja can attack very quickly in rapid succession. So even though one individual hit may not match up to the power of the Moon hit, the repeated blows would. Would you rather get hit by the Moon or take 50 punches from Greninja that are leaving craters with each impact? At least with the Moon you get it over with but with the repeated hits you will just be taking maximum damage and head trauma the whole time.”
I’d take the 50 punches easy because the Moon outweighs those 50 punches everytime by such a ridiculous margin. The craters Greninja makes are basically the size of the Pokemon that he’s hitting. And let’s be generous and double the size to illustrate my point about how unhelpful this point is. I’m going to use the Barbaracle as an example. The average height is 4 ft 3 inches 4.25 ft and doubling that would be 8.5 ft. And if we’re basing this off the Moon in our solar system, it has a diameter of about 2,159 miles , so it would at least make a crater of that size
11,399,520 ft = 2,159 miles
11,399,520 ft / 8.5 ft = 1,341,120 attacks required to make an equivalent sized crater
This is based on being generous when it comes to the size of the craters you’ve shown Greninja creating. And it doesn’t even matter if the craters were much bigger than the size of the Barbaracle. If it was like 20 or 30 times the size it would still be about 134,000 and 89,000 respectively. So even in the case that my math is by significant amount it would still be thousands of attacks to be equivalent to an impact that did absolutely nothing to Galactus. All while Greninja would continually be using up stamina and energy to make these attacks.
Head trauma and max damage doesn’t mean a damn thing when the scale of the attacks are so entirely different. And on top of the fact you haven’t once demonstrated Greninja going for repeated attacks. You’ve just shown incredibly unimpressive singular hits that pale in comparison to the moon feat alone. It is mathematically definitive that these punches are worse than pea shooters when up against what Galactus has tanked with zero damage. There is literally no disputing this even with me highballing the size of the craters in Greninja’s favor repeatedly. Even making Greninja more powerful than what’s shown is not enough to even be remotely comparable to a fraction of Galactus’ durability.
“So we’ll keep the speed out of this for now. With Greninja’s shockwave types punches he could hit Galactus so hard that the guy would have a concussion. Taking that many hits can even override your durability or healing factor like how Hulk was able to take out Wolverine in the World War Hulk saga. (Or it might have been Planet Hulk.”
1,341,120 attacks, Dreager. 1,341,120 attacks (Or at the least 89,000 if the craters were 30 times larger).There isn’t even a remote chance Galactus is getting a concussion from that if he feels it at all. And the Hulk and Wolverine are entirely different characters, with different powersets and abilities, so I’m not going to seriously consider anything about their durability or healing factor, even if they’re within the same universe. An irrelevant point that is based off of pure speculation and vague scaling to totally different characters.
“With Greninja zipping in and out as he lands dozens and dozens of blows on Galactus in an instant they’re going to really add up quickly”
This clip at most shows Greninja getting maybe a dozen or two movements out of this, and they certainly aren’t as fast as your making it out to be. And again based on how many of his attacks need to connect to be equivalent to the moon feat, they aren’t going to add up nearly as quickly as you may have thought.And you didn’t even bother showing this being used to actually do any damage, Greninja’s just running all over the place while his opponent is sitting there doing nothing.
“He’s also got his massive shuriken star
If this hits Galactus straight up it’s hard to see it not dealing some serious damage. If Greninja throws a few more of those in then that would be gamer over”
First off you don’t even show any sort of impact with this thing, so there’s no concept of how much damage its doing. It’s big and it looks cool is basically the entirety of your argument here. And given my mini math lesson I showed you, I think you know how unimpressive this is going to be to me.
“Galactus would have to try and keep his defenses up at all times to last until Greninja tires himself out but I don’t think he will be able to last quite so long. Greninja is just built different and those attacks would keep on coming without delay. Can you imagine what it would feel like for Galactus to know that a bunch of attacks are coming his way and but there is absolutely nothing he can do to stop them? It would have to be absolutely maddening from his point of view and that’s a another level of stress on top of being hit the whole time.”
Do you honestly believe that Greninja can hit Galactus with 1.3 million kicks or hundreds of thousands of his other attacks before tiring out? Because that’s what he’s got to do to even remotely compare to the moon feat. Which again did absolutely nothing to Galactus. And I don’t have to imagine what it’s like for Galactus to just tank a bunch of attacks coming at him all at once because he deals with that all the time. In fact he doesn’t even bother dodging. It’s not maddening to him, he really does not care and will likely allow Greninja to simply do this until they get tired. This is Galactus’ entire thing, being a massive damage sponge that doesn’t give a damn about the powers of a lot of the heroes within the Marvel universe. Even more utterly unconvinced than I was before due to the math I did.
So I don’t think Greninja will be landing 1.3 million kicks here but the attacks won’t have to line up linearly like that. Greninja will be able to focus his attacks on concentrated points instead of a general attack like the Moon or everyone blasting Galactus. This is where he really gets to be in a good spot. He can overwhelm Greninja with speed and just start attacking a whole lot. To the point of Galactus not being worried about the repeated hits, he would be this time when he starts feeling the damage. Once he knows that there is no escape he will probably start changing his tune here.
So if we focus on the rapid blows then we could reasonably lower the 1.3 mil attacks to around 100. These are all concentrated and landing at around the same time so the sheer weight and impact of those blows will have Galactus reeling. He just won’t have any kind of comeback to that and will also be expending a lot of energy as he tries to fire back. Every blast he misses will cause him to lose more and more energy as well as grow more hungry.
As for the giant shruiken star, there isn’t much to scale it off of there but based purely on the size and how much energy was being gathered there, it appeared like something out of a destructo disk in DBZ. If we assume it has the same properties then everything is put onto how sharp it is and it could even slice Galactus in half. It’s hard to say whether it could pull this off but even if it didn’t that would be an insane amount of damage.
We also have to consider that these attacks are water based so Galactus will be getting wet and ever so slightly slower like a damp effect in world of warcraft. So everything keeps on adding up in Greninja’s favor. As long as he has attacks that can wound Galactus then he has ones that can finish him off. It may take some time (Not millions of blows though) but Greninja will punch through eventually.
“So I don’t think Greninja will be landing 1.3 million kicks here but the attacks won’t have to line up linearly like that. Greninja will be able to focus his attacks on concentrated points instead of a general attack like the Moon or everyone blasting Galactus. This is where he really gets to be in a good spot. He can overwhelm Greninja with speed and just start attacking a whole lot. To the point of Galactus not being worried about the repeated hits, he would be this time when he starts feeling the damage. Once he knows that there is no escape he will probably start changing his tune here.”
Concentrated points are irrelevant. Period. This is the last time you will use this argument as you have zero evidence that it will affect Galactus anymore than a general attack other than baseless assertions. Especially since the math I used was based on a concentrated attack from Greninja and specifically told you which feat I was using. The power differential comes from Greninja using a concentrated attack so it’s useless to argue that concentrated attacks will help him.
“So if we focus on the rapid blows then we could reasonably lower the 1.3 mil attacks to around 100. These are all concentrated and landing at around the same time so the sheer weight and impact of those blows will have Galactus reeling. He just won’t have any kind of comeback to that and will also be expending a lot of energy as he tries to fire back. Every blast he misses will cause him to lose more and more energy as well as grow more hungry.”
Lowering it to 100 based on concentrated attacks is unimaginably stupid and you know it Dreager. That is downplay of the highest order and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such an argument. Concentrated attacks if they do anything aren’t going to go from 1.3 million to 100 attacks. That a 13,000x more power per attack. No amount of concentrated attack is just going to increase power by anywhere near that much. Again, especially since my math was based on Greninja using a concentrated attack in the first place. So it will do nothing to increase the power if that’s the exact same power I based my calculations on. And even IF we reduced it to 100, it would still be comparing to a feat that Galactus no selled. So Greninja would still have to do these 100 attacks again and again to do any sort of significant damage. Even if I was to go with your utterly shameful downplay here it would still be in Galactus’ favor. And remember the 1.3 million attacks is based on me lowballing it based off of a feat that is twice as impressive as what Greninja actually accomplished. So it would be closer to 2.6 million attacks. To go from that to 100 is purely bias on your part, there’s no other reasonable explanation.
“As for the giant shruiken star, there isn’t much to scale it off of there but based purely on the size and how much energy was being gathered there, it appeared like something out of a destructo disk in DBZ. If we assume it has the same properties then everything is put onto how sharp it is and it could even slice Galactus in half. It’s hard to say whether it could pull this off but even if it didn’t that would be an insane amount of damage.”
Totally ignoring this point, it’s based on scaling to an entirely different universe that doesn’t apply to Pokémon whatsoever.
“We also have to consider that these attacks are water based so Galactus will be getting wet and ever so slightly slower like a damp effect in world of warcraft. So everything keeps on adding up in Greninja’s favor. As long as he has attacks that can wound Galactus then he has ones that can finish him off. It may take some time (Not millions of blows though) but Greninja will punch through eventually.”
Again using game mechanics from a totally different universe is irrelevant, will be ignoring that part of it. And you have zero evidence to show that Greninja won’t have to hit Galactus at least this many times to compare to a feat that did absolutely nothing to Galactus. 1.3 to 100 Dreager? Are you really this dedicated to lying so Greninja wins? Obviously still utterly unconvinced.
All right you’re not convinced yet but this may change your mind. So the world of Pokemon has a ton of casual planet busters and beings that can utterly reshape the entire battlefield. Of those you’d expect the strongest ones to make it to the championships and that’s where Greninja was. He was in the Kalos Tournament league finals which proves he is one of the strongest. We have to take into account that he is constantly leveling up and gaining more experience even as he was going through the tournaments. So it wasn’t even a matter of if he would get stronger but when.
So it throws all of the calcs off because now we have to increase his abilities exponentially. I guess we won’t use other universes game mechanics here but even sticking to Pokemon we know that the xp system is pretty handy. Ash’s Greninja kept on making strides and even got his cool new super form. So 1.3 mil to 100 may be a bit of a stretch but Greninja will still be dealing tons of blows to Galactus the whole time which will get the guy nervous. Lets take his combos from Super Smash:
Imagine him landing those hits in quick succession to Galactus.
Now the smoking gun in my argument:
I hadn’t brought out the final smash before now but do you see the kind of speed he’s attacking with here? Forget 100 blows, he could easily land hundreds quickly at that rate. I counted almost 16 blows there and look how quickly he did it.
Then we’ve also got the fact that he can amp up his fists and legs to deal even further damage with mega punch and mega kick
He may be even more broken than I remembered. So there’s not a lot of ways to stop him here. That helps scale up the attacks even further and mixed with the speed Galactus won’t be able to stop him in time
“All right you’re not convinced yet but this may change your mind. So the world of Pokemon has a ton of casual planet busters and beings that can utterly reshape the entire battlefield. Of those you’d expect the strongest ones to make it to the championships and that’s where Greninja was. He was in the Kalos Tournament league finals which proves he is one of the strongest. We have to take into account that he is constantly leveling up and gaining more experience even as he was going through the tournaments. So it wasn’t even a matter of if he would get stronger but when.”
This point is utterly incoherent, based entirely on Pokemon as a verse and not on what Greninja is actually shown to accomplish. The idea that Greninja is even close to a fraction of a casual planet buster’s power is simply laughable, and every single feat you’ve shown is indicative of that. The strongest you’ve shown is a fraction of a feat that did absolutely nothing to Galactus.
“So it throws all of the calcs off because now we have to increase his abilities exponentially. I guess we won’t use other universes game mechanics here but even sticking to Pokemon we know that the xp system is pretty handy. Ash’s Greninja kept on making strides and even got his cool new super form. So 1.3 mil to 100 may be a bit of a stretch but Greninja will still be dealing tons of blows to Galactus the whole time which will get the guy nervous.”
If you can’t show Greninja specifically hitting anywhere near these feats, then my calcs stand. You don’t get to BS about Greninja’s powers becoming stronger, compare him to casual planet busters he cannot ever hope to compete with power wise and then tell me that the calcs I did based on a feat YOU provided goes out the window. And absolutely nothing else you’ve shown put Greninja all that much beyond the attack against the Barbaracle. This isn’t anything special to Galactus, stop insisting he’s going to be nervous about it, that’s silly.
” Lets take his combos from Super Smash:
Imagine him landing those hits in quick succession to Galactus.”
Cool Greninja combo’d an opponent roughly his size in a game where your enemy takes damage no matter what if an attack hits. Peach was also clearly at 100.0% damage, so of course she’s going to get launched. That’s how the game mechanics work, and even if we don’t treat it as pure game mechanics, it would still be an already significantly damaged opponent of roughly the same size with way less durability by several magnitudes of order getting launched. It proves absolutely nothing when it comes to putting down Galactus. You’re proving yourself incorrect with “evidence” like this.
“Now the smoking gun in my argument:
I hadn’t brought out the final smash before now but do you see the kind of speed he’s attacking with here? Forget 100 blows, he could easily land hundreds quickly at that rate. I counted almost 16 blows there and look how quickly he did it.”
First off the beginning of the attack is entirely based on launching an opponent into the air, there’s no way he’s doing that with Galactus. And the rapid blows are weak even by Greninja’s standards, as a lot of his normal attacks can get past the measly 2 percent damage that they deal. And these are the same types of unimpressive attacks you’ve been showing this whole time. Hell this is less impressive movement speed wise then the the non attacking feat of him running around. So this is absolutely NOT a smoking gun, don’t kid yourself Dreager.
“Then we’ve also got the fact that he can amp up his fists and legs to deal even further damage with mega punch and mega kick
He may be even more broken than I remembered. So there’s not a lot of ways to stop him here. That helps scale up the attacks even further and mixed with the speed Galactus won’t be able to stop him in time”
Absolute joke of a feat shown here. He just hits an Abomasnow into some ice and breaks it.No lasting damage to Abomasnow shown, and obviously breaking some ice with a decently heavy Pokemon isn’t going to show jack shit compared to the impact of an entire moon.
Galactus doesn’t have to do anything to stop him, nothing you’ve shown here indicates that Greninja can get anything even close to a fraction of the stuff Galactus has tanked no problem. You haven’t even proved he’s capable of that, let alone actually beating Galactus. You’re not going to convince me that Galactus will be beaten with feats like this. Still utterly unconvinced.
Right but the Pokemon verse is absolutely crazy so that was showing the kinds of guys that Greninja has to go up against on the regular. It’s not easy but he always manages to push through and that’s why he’s known as such an insane fighter!
It wasn’t the attack itself that was supposed to be impressive with the mega punch but to show that he can amp up all physical attacks. So any feat we have seen already is one that could be even more deadly with that mega ability. It really makes Greninja absolutely lethal.
All right I’ll have to find some more feats to change your mind on this one. Unfortunately the World Coronation battles are taking a while to start but he’s fought a lot of times so I’m sure I can find more stuff from the games or something.
Back to my smoking gun though, the damage isn’t the big deal here since with gameplay mechanics we don’t know how strong the strikes are. The key part here is the speed since it shows that Greninja can move at speeds so quick that Galactus would not be able to keep up. Imagine him striking Galactus over and over with these attacks. I’m not saying that this would immediately end Galactus and his threat to the universe in an instant but it would deal a lot of damage. Greninja doesn’t have to launch him into the air for this, but that would be an added bonus.
Greninja’s skills and abilities just keep on improving. At this point we’ve seen that he has tremendous speed and attack power as well as a large variety of moves. He has his Ash form as well and the ability to keep on fighting no matter how tough things get. Galactus will also be expending energy in trying to strike at Greninja and so he will get weaker as the fight is going on. It will be difficult for Galactus to keep his confidence up
“Right but the Pokemon verse is absolutely crazy so that was showing the kinds of guys that Greninja has to go up against on the regular. It’s not easy but he always manages to push through and that’s why he’s known as such an insane fighter!”
The verse itself can be powerful, really don’t care about that unless you can show Greninja going up against the supposed casual planet busters he apparently goes up against on the regular.
“It wasn’t the attack itself that was supposed to be impressive with the mega punch but to show that he can amp up all physical attacks. So any feat we have seen already is one that could be even more deadly with that mega ability. It really makes Greninja absolutely lethal.”
Cool, still doesn’t counter my point on how Greninja needs to attack an insane amount of times to compare to a feat that did absolutely nothing to Galactus. And i’m going to completely ignore the “could be even more deadly” part because that’s entirely based on speculation that you haven’t shown to be true. And finally, Greninja is not lethal in any capacity, even in Smash where you’re simply knocking out an opponent. Irrelevant point.
“Back to my smoking gun though, the damage isn’t the big deal here since with gameplay mechanics we don’t know how strong the strikes are. The key part here is the speed since it shows that Greninja can move at speeds so quick that Galactus would not be able to keep up. Imagine him striking Galactus over and over with these attacks. I’m not saying that this would immediately end Galactus and his threat to the universe in an instant but it would deal a lot of damage. Greninja doesn’t have to launch him into the air for this, but that would be an added bonus.”
The damage is literally the only thing that matters. How many times have I told you that Greninja’s speed is utterly irrelevant to this battle. Stop using it as a point. Especially if the game mechanics make it so you can’t verify how strong the actual blows are, then the speed doesn’t matter nearly as much. There’s no way of judging whether it would do any significant damage to Galactus whatsoever. At least with the Pokemon battle feats you showed there was something to go off of. I wasn’t at all impressed by them, but there was a clear sense of the amount of damage they were doing. With Smash feats this is difficult by your own admission. Smash feats in the future will be disregarded simply because its game mechanics makes it difficult to figure out the power of a feat.
“Greninja’s skills and abilities just keep on improving. At this point we’ve seen that he has tremendous speed and attack power as well as a large variety of moves. He has his Ash form as well and the ability to keep on fighting no matter how tough things get. Galactus will also be expending energy in trying to strike at Greninja and so he will get weaker as the fight is going on. It will be difficult for Galactus to keep his confidence up”
Greninja’s skills and abilities do indeed improve. However at this point we’ve seen that you overestimate his speed compared to Galactus’ previous foes and wildly wank his attack power, to make his large variety of moves more relevant than they actually are. He has his Ash form which you haven’t at all demonstrated is powerful enough to take on Galactus, and instead lean upon vague statement about how tough he is. You blatantly misunderstand how Galactus functions, as its likely he won’t even bother attacking Greninja for most of the fight, so he will not get nearly as weak as you portray. His confidence is a non issue as Galactus is pretty much entirely indifferent and aloof at all times, and supremely confident in his superiority over all mortals.
Most of those guys I showed Greninja fighting against are casual planet busters though! He really doesn’t hold back in those fights and it’s hard to see him going down at all. Sadly Ash isn’t fighting Alain in the current tournament so he’s probably not going to use Greninja this time around. It all works on a power scaling basis though which is crucial.
All right so we can skip the Super Smash bros feats. Those do tend to be a bit tougher to control so that’s fine but we have to acknowledge that Greninja is probably one of the most powerful Pokemon that we’ve ever seen. I dare say that he is approaching top 10 in the Pokemon verse which we’ve already established is absolutely bolkners.
Greninja has super strength, speed, durability, and a whole lot of other useful techniques. That’s why I don’t see him losing here. He’s just way too skilled and always finds a way to claim victory. We don’t have to go into his speed much but like we’ve said, there’s no way Galactus can hope to keep up. If anything he may start to panic when trying to catch Galactus. It still comes down to the power vs durability angle but even a man as large as Galactus will get frustrated when he can’t land his hits in time.
Galactus is a very prideful man. If he sees Galactus attacking him, he’ll take it as disrespect and will try to fight back. That’s when he will be right where Greninja wants him. Galactus won’t have a chance to get away or anything like that because it’ll already be too late for him.
“Most of those guys I showed Greninja fighting against are casual planet busters though! He really doesn’t hold back in those fights and it’s hard to see him going down at all. Sadly Ash isn’t fighting Alain in the current tournament so he’s probably not going to use Greninja this time around. It all works on a power scaling basis though which is crucial.”
Prove it. Prove they’re casual planet busters. Not one feat you’ve shown remotely gets within the ballpark within 20 million miles of planet busting let alone casual planet busting.
“Greninja has super strength, speed, durability, and a whole lot of other useful techniques. That’s why I don’t see him losing here. He’s just way too skilled and always finds a way to claim victory. We don’t have to go into his speed much but like we’ve said, there’s no way Galactus can hope to keep up. If anything he may start to panic when trying to catch Galactus. It still comes down to the power vs durability angle but even a man as large as Galactus will get frustrated when he can’t land his hits in time.”
Super strength, speed, durability, and many different techniques are literally nothing Galactus hasn’t seen before. The large variety of superheroes he’s gone against all have these properties and more, so this point is irrelevant. And prove that Galactus would at all panic when that’s not at all a character flaw he’s demonstrated. He’s not going to panic when Greninja’s doing nothing special compared to what he’s faced, and you’re completely incapable of demonstrating that he’s powerful enough without wildly wanking BS feats to suit your own purpose.
“Galactus is a very prideful man. If he sees Galactus attacking him, he’ll take it as disrespect and will try to fight back. That’s when he will be right where Greninja wants him. Galactus won’t have a chance to get away or anything like that because it’ll already be too late for him.”
This is an idiotic point that proves that you don’t understand Galactus’ MO whatsoever. His whole personality is based upon the fact that he doesn’t bother counterattacking, dodging etc. because he likely wouldn’t consider Greninja as a serious threat. He doesn’t acknowledge a combined attack from the Avengers, shrugs off Thor and ignores him as if he’s insignificant, doesn’t even seem to notice Storm’s full power being thrown at him etc. There are plenty of examples of him just not giving a damn about powerful attacks being thrown at him that I haven’t mentioned here but my point is obvious. To act as if Galactus is going to panic or just go willy nilly at Greninja because of his attack is demonstrably false. To keep on asserting it as fact is dishonest, and it will be ignored in future comments.
Please stick to arguments relating to Greninja’s attack power/stamina loss from the amount of attacks necessary to do anything to Galactus and his durability, because that’s the only part of this battle that matters.
No worries I got you on the planet busting:
Now we have to account for a few things like this being Mewtwo, the strongest Pokemon in existence and that he has been amped up to his dark mode. Even so, you see how he does this so casually that he could go on to destroy all of the planets rather quickly if he wanted too. This is what it means to be a high end Pokemon and there is no Pokemon that blows Greninja off the map. That’s the impressive thing about all of this.
Galactus is always getting angry though. Man’s constantly yelling and pounding his fists at the pesky heroes who are attacking him.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0e8e4efb517224b3fb7c3e9e24ec84c-lq
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f899c3c2-7167-47e8-9f0b-33c836e0c8f2/d8yxk4x-b93ac8be-908a-4182-bf3f-aeef64c00570.png/v1/fill/w_731,h_1093,q_70,strp/galactus_the_destroyer_of_sues_by_magicalkeypizzadan_d8yxk4x-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTUzMCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y4OTljM2MyLTcxNjctNDdlOC05ZjBiLTMzYzgzNmUwYzhmMlwvZDh5eGs0eC1iOTNhYzhiZS05MDhhLTQxODItYmYzZi1hZWVmNjRjMDA1NzAucG5nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEwMjQifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.h2FOhQL0paKcLYLxztGj2siI_ZbN4jCaXStzLxkGnWg
But we also know that Galactus lets his guard down easily so he often gets blasted around:
So here’s what I’m thinking, Greninja will run rings around Galactus so quickly that dust will cover the air. Galactus will fire off his energy blasts in pure rage so Greninja effortlessly dodges the attacks and gives him the hands. No muss and no fuss. Greninja will just go in and get the job done. Yes, it’ll take a lot of hits like we said but those hits are coming.
Galactus won’t be able to stop this assault and Greninja will keep on going until the battle is done. Greninja’s abilities are just unbelievable and once he enters Ash mode then it’ll be all over. He just can’t lose his cool or underestimate Galactus and then everything will be fine.
“No worries I got you on the planet busting:
Now we have to account for a few things like this being Mewtwo, the strongest Pokemon in existence and that he has been amped up to his dark mode. Even so, you see how he does this so casually that he could go on to destroy all of the planets rather quickly if he wanted too. This is what it means to be a high end Pokemon and there is no Pokemon that blows Greninja off the map. That’s the impressive thing about all of this.”
Cool you showed a Pokémon destroying a planet without showing anything about Greninja being involved. It’s just Mewtwo doing his thing. And you haven’t even shown the planet being destroyed fully. And furthermore this has nothing to do with Greninja’s own attack power.
Finally I’m very weary on considering this a feat because to me this appears to be a Smash type situation. Like a Smash Ult where it’s difficult to really show its legitimacy. Especially if the arena is shown to be fine after the attack in game.
“Galactus is always getting angry though. Man’s constantly yelling and pounding his fists at the pesky heroes who are attacking him.”
I wanted to ignore this part but since you actually bothered to use scans I’ll bite
First picture doesn’t involve them actually fighting which was what your claim was talking about. I gave examples of him not caring about being attacked on multiple occasions. Him being dramatic here tangential to your own claim. Him fighting a singular Pokemon out of the blue isn’t the same situation.
The second is him fighting freaking Thanos, a well known threat to the entire Marvel universe. He’s not going to treat Greninja with the same intensity. And even then this doesn’t show him attacking all willy nilly. Neither of these scans do.
“But we also know that Galactus lets his guard down easily so he often gets blasted around:”
The moon feat existing makes this Irrelevant. It totally supersedes this by the virtue of your own standard of making characters composites.And even then this feat did no visible or internal damage to Galactus.
“So here’s what I’m thinking, Greninja will run rings around Galactus so quickly that dust will cover the air. Galactus will fire off his energy blasts in pure rage so Greninja effortlessly dodges the attacks and gives him the hands. No muss and no fuss. Greninja will just go in and get the job done. Yes, it’ll take a lot of hits like we said but those hits are coming.
Galactus won’t be able to stop this assault and Greninja will keep on going until the battle is done. Greninja’s abilities are just unbelievable and once he enters Ash mode then it’ll be all over. He just can’t lose his cool or underestimate Galactus and then everything will be fine.”
Yeah Galactus isn’t just going to go into a rage because Greninja ran in some circles and made some dust. It’s very inconsequential to Galactus and is a waste of stamina for Greninja. He’s simply not going to take it seriously. And you have yet to refute my point about how many hits it will take.
It will take many thousands of hits to be equivalent to something that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GALACTUS.
And since I think you don’t understand this point whatsoever I’m going to repeat it five more times so that you understand what I’m saying
The moon did absolutely nothing to Galactus
The moon did absolutely nothing to Galactus
The moon did absolutely nothing to Galactus
The moon did absolutely nothing to Galactus
The moon did absolutely nothing to Galactus
We’re still at that bar. You still have yet to prove he can get enough attacks to be equivalent to the amount of power I described for the moon feat.
And as for stopping the assault, that’s not something Galactus would even care to do since Greninja would likely not strike him as worthy of that effort. And finally you haven’t shown the Ash Mode being that impressive at all, so it doesn’t convince me whatsoever.
The arena being fine after that is pure gameplay mechanics but the animations are there to show you how powerful the attack really is. It isn’t a Greninja feat but we know that Greninja fights guys like this for breakfast so the feats transfer over in the same ballpark. For example, Mewtwo beat Charizard and then Greninja nearly took out Mega Charizard so they’re all in that general ballpark. It’s easy to overlook how immensely powerful the Pokemon verse is so I thought this would be a good baseline.
The scans still show that Galactus is a very proud man who will yell and speak in a grand way. If he sees someone like Greninja slapping him with his tongue (Greninja’s scarf looking thing is actually his tongue) and other little water attacks that will make his armor soggy, Galactus isn’t going to like that. He will be forced to respond since his heralds aren’t here and that’s where he will go down for the count. It will be difficult for him to resist using a lot of attacks and expending massive amounts of energy trying to hit Greninja.
Galactus was prepared for the moon though. If Greninja launches a proper surprise attack with one of his powerful punches or water discs then that could deal massive amounts of damage.
At the risk of sounding like I’m coping here, we have to bump Greninja up to planetary level. Greninja is able to do several maneuvers while in the air which allows him to be incredibly versatile in how he attacks. Galactus would have to anticipate every angle and direction if he wants to know where the attack is coming from.
Here in his Ash mode Greninja is literally able to split the ground asunder by plunging his Shuriken into it.
Remember that we saw that he could make a much bigger one in a previous gif that looked more like a fire move. If this one can rip the ground open like that, imagine what a bigger one could do or an attack buffed by his mega punch? Now we’re cooking with gas. So to address the Moon part, right Galactus can take on the Moon and a whole lot more since it didn’t do any damage. Taking on a hit like this is a different story. What Greninja is doing here is like splitting a foe in half with pure power, only he’s doing it to the whole planet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMcHD93aAAAdtDv.jpg:large
This image is from a different series (One Punch Man) but shows the gravity of what could happen to someone who takes a strike like that. Picture Greninja slamming that shuriken into Galactus’ head from the sky rather than into the ground. That would be even more impactful than the Moon strike since we’re talking planetary and this is a direct hit to the temple.
It also works long range. If you want to see more of Greninja’s throwing strength in his Ash form, check this out:
There’s no escape and no way to dodge. Galactus is going to have to eat this hit and that’s not a good idea for his long term health. There’s a reason why Greninja is known to be ultra powerful and this is it. It’s because his Ash mode greatly amps up all of his abilities to absolutely insane degrees.
“The arena being fine after that is pure gameplay mechanics but the animations are there to show you how powerful the attack really is. It isn’t a Greninja feat but we know that Greninja fights guys like this for breakfast so the feats transfer over in the same ballpark. For example, Mewtwo beat Charizard and then Greninja nearly took out Mega Charizard so they’re all in that general ballpark. It’s easy to overlook how immensely powerful the Pokemon verse is so I thought this would be a good baseline.”
Pure game mechanics. Exactly my point Dreager, it can’t be trusted as a legitimate feat because it runs into the problem of being mixed with game mechanics. That’s why I can’t treat it as something to help Greninja’s case here, especially if it’s not related to Greninja. And everything you’ve shown of Mega Charizard fighting other Pokemon and Greninja isn’t remotely close to planet busting, so this powerscaling comparison is utterly irrelevant.
“The scans still show that Galactus is a very proud man who will yell and speak in a grand way. If he sees someone like Greninja slapping him with his tongue (Greninja’s scarf looking thing is actually his tongue) and other little water attacks that will make his armor soggy, Galactus isn’t going to like that. He will be forced to respond since his heralds aren’t here and that’s where he will go down for the count. It will be difficult for him to resist using a lot of attacks and expending massive amounts of energy trying to hit Greninja.”
Cool, still doesn’t show your point that he’s going to attack willy nilly. You’ve had your chance to use scans to prove this, you’ve shown two scans unrelated to your specific point about him attacking as a result of his pride. And it’s completely irrelevant to my argument as i’ve made very clear, do not mention this again. It’s a waste of your time.
“Galactus was prepared for the moon though. If Greninja launches a proper surprise attack with one of his powerful punches or water discs then that could deal massive amounts of damage.”
Irrelevant. Surprise attacks do not increase attack power in any way and to act as if it does is utterly delusional., And i’ve discussed on multiple occasions the power disparity between these attacks and the power of the moon. Even if it did somehow increase attack power, it’s not doing that much damage, and i’ve verifiably shown you through pure math why this is conceptually ridiculous to claim.
“At the risk of sounding like I’m coping here, we have to bump Greninja up to planetary level. Greninja is able to do several maneuvers while in the air which allows him to be incredibly versatile in how he attacks. Galactus would have to anticipate every angle and direction if he wants to know where the attack is coming from.”
I don’t even need to respond to this section properly. You know you’re getting lost in the sauce, I know you’re getting lost in the sauce. The first sentence makes that really clear.And stop saying we, you’re the only one bumping Greninja to Planetary level. And since you know you’re getting lost in the sauce how about you stop making arguments based on that state of mind. It actively makes your points less and less convincing as we go on.
As for the first scan it’s just him kicking a similarly sized pokemon in the head and not even knocking him to the ground or creating any large outside force/shockwaves. It does nothing to bolster your points. It’s no different then all the other unimpressive kicking feats you’ve shown time and time again.
“Here in his Ash mode Greninja is literally able to split the ground asunder by plunging his Shuriken into it.”
Nothing Mjolnir can’t do and more, and Galactus takes it like a champ.
“Remember that we saw that he could make a much bigger one in a previous gif that looked more like a fire move. If this one can rip the ground open like that, imagine what a bigger one could do or an attack buffed by his mega punch? Now we’re cooking with gas. So to address the Moon part, right Galactus can take on the Moon and a whole lot more since it didn’t do any damage. Taking on a hit like this is a different story. What Greninja is doing here is like splitting a foe in half with pure power, only he’s doing it to the whole planet.”
You mean the fire ring that you didn’t even show the results of. The one that most certainly would not tear apart a planet based on everything you’ve shown? The one that likely couldn’t even tear one Pokemon apart? That one? You really think that’s at all comparable to the Moon feat. This point is pure wankery of the highest order. It’s based on zero evidence and the half baked assertions of a super fan. This does nothing to address the Moon feat on any level and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking it does. No amount of buffing is going to make his attack power comparable.
“This image is from a different series (One Punch Man) but shows the gravity of what could happen to someone who takes a strike like that. Picture Greninja slamming that shuriken into Galactus’ head from the sky rather than into the ground. That would be even more impactful than the Moon strike since we’re talking planetary and this is a direct hit to the temple.”
Irrelevant, using feats from different universes. Point dismissed out of hand.
“It also works long range. If you want to see more of Greninja’s throwing strength in his Ash form, check this out:”
Cool making it long range is irrelevant, Galactus has seen plenty of long ranges attacks in his time. Star shaped ones that don’t display a huge amount of power in comparison to what he’s faced aren’t going to be special.
“There’s no escape and no way to dodge. Galactus is going to have to eat this hit and that’s not a good idea for his long term health. There’s a reason why Greninja is known to be ultra powerful and this is it. It’s because his Ash mode greatly amps up all of his abilities to absolutely insane degrees.”
Ash mode isn’t at all impressive and based on what you’ve shown only mildly boosts Greninja’s power. It’s not enough to defeat Galactus or do any sort significant damage. Nothing you’ve shown now or beforehand has been remotely enough to prove this. Still utterly unconvinced.
Mechanics do get tricky but I think of the health bars as the gameplay mechanic while the animations are showing what the characters could really do without it. At least to me that makes the most sense but I could see it getting a little dicey so we could side step that for now. I’ll grab some planet busting type stuff from the anime next.
All right we’ll skip the Galactus panicking stuff for now since I think we’ve gone to the end there.
I have to push back on the surprise attack part though. Surprise attacks are always shown to deal significantly more damage than normal ones.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ebe4d25aab1f03adcf1b9a20469d2c6-lq
Shazam was once able to knock Superman out in two hits because he took him by surprise when otherwise it’s always a back and forth with a lot of blows.
Likewise Goku was shot out of SSGB mode because his guard was down so it one shotted him.
This is even true of Pokemon
https://giphy.com/gifs/dICjAqixKQFnG
Sneak attacks greatly enhance the attack or more precisely, I should say it increases the amount of damage that you deal to the opponent. So if Galactus takes a heavy hit from Greninja that he’s not expecting then it throws all the calcs out the window. Galactus could theoretically be shut down by an attack magnitudes weaker than what he has tanked previously. It would also explain how he could no sell the moon attack as he was expecting it while taking a lot of damage from weaker attacks in other times.
This is where the speed comes in. Greninja is fast enough to get around Galactus and land shots that the big guy would not be expecting nor would have time to block.
I thought the Greninja being a planet buster point was a given already. We’ve seen how he can shatter parts of the ground and how versatile he is in the air. When he amps up his attacks with mega energy then that should be game over.
In base he was able to keep up with Charizard
and his sword was strong enough where Charizard had to go for the dodge. At this point Greninja’s attacks and speed speak for themselves.
I couldn’t find the ending of the fire shuriken gif but if we power scale it to everything else that Greninja has then it should be an auto W. At that point it would be difficult for Greninja to be anything but a planet buster. The man’s been getting stronger with each and every storyline/fight. So since we’ve seen what the normal one can do, adding in the fire and then making it large is an incredible buff.
I know you’re unconvinced so far so it’s time to change that up a bit with these next scenes. So Greninja finally got to meet Lucario in the show. It was one of the most hyped moments in the franchise because both of these guys are absolute all stars.
Notice how Lucario actually get nervous here as Greninja casually walks across the water? Remember that Lucario is a top tier in Ash’s arsenal so this is already pretty crazy.
But we’re here for feats and not hype so check out this next scene. Lucario makes numerous clones and yet Greninja casually picks out the right one and hits him at shocking speeds.
If Galactus was going to try for any illusions or trickery he needn’t bother. Those things don’t work on Greninja but it should also be noted that this hit looked like it really hurt Lucario.
Final point and the most powerful one
https://64.media.tumblr.com/cb641136e45fbb7c516dfb79433a9ada/4235291b0c2e56ae-56/s250x400/996c408d95e82135988ab2a24e26c9e473e6f3c7.gifv
Base Greninja is holding his own with mega Lucario. Do you know what that means?? It means that Greninja has mega level stats in base!! So if you throw his mega form in then that’s absolute insanity. From this we can definitely scale him up to planetary based on how Shadow Mewtwo is planetary and base Mewtwo was able to cause disasters across the entire planet with no effort. Mega Greninja would scale above him even further
“I have to push back on the surprise attack part though. Surprise attacks are always shown to deal significantly more damage than normal ones.”
“Sneak attacks greatly enhance the attack or more precisely, I should say it increases the amount of damage that you deal to the opponent. So if Galactus takes a heavy hit from Greninja that he’s not expecting then it throws all the calcs out the window. Galactus could theoretically be shut down by an attack magnitudes weaker than what he has tanked previously. It would also explain how he could no sell the moon attack as he was expecting it while taking a lot of damage from weaker attacks in other times.”
“This is where the speed comes in. Greninja is fast enough to get around Galactus and land shots that the big guy would not be expecting nor would have time to block.”
Sneak attacks do not literally amplify damage unless otherwise specifically designed to do so. Sneak attacks appear to do more damage because the opponent is caught unaware and the enemy is capable of actually hurting them. It’s not like you can’t see this in real life. People get knocked out all the time by blows that would normally not be an issue because THEY AREN’T READY TO FIGHT. Not that this is even relevant because even if this was true it still wouldn’t be nearly enough extra power to be all that helpful.
Obviously you know I’m not going to take the Goku and Shazam/Superman feat seriously since they’re unrelated verses with entirely different characters so let’s go to the Jigglypuff Pikachu example.
JIgglypuff’s attack power with that kick did not suddenly become more powerful because Pikachu was unaware. Jigglypuff took advantage of that unawareness and most importantly is up against an opponent of similar size that is comparatively closer to their level. So this example is irrelevant as it doesn’t at all apply to this battle at all.
It is incredibly idiotic to say ” it throws all the calcs out the window” and handwave it away because Greninja snuck in kicks. And remember even the attacks that knocked him down for whatever reason did jack shit for damage. Nothing visible and no known internal damage. So even in the alternate reality where sneak attacks amplify damage to a significant degree this is irrelevant as I have explained on numerous occasions the sheer number of attacks required. This is a nonsensical theory that even when true isn’t nearly as powerful as you portray.
And again speed, dodging and blocking is as i’ve stated, completely irrelevant to my argument, and this new theory here is both wholly incorrect/baseless and not even that helpful to your case if it wasn’t incorrect/baseless.
“I thought the Greninja being a planet buster point was a given already. We’ve seen how he can shatter parts of the ground and how versatile he is in the air. When he amps up his attacks with mega energy then that should be game over.
You really… don’t know what a planet buster is do you? Shattering small parts of the ground and being versatile in the air doesn’t make one a planet buster. Being able to literally destroy a planet with one’s attacks makes one a planet buster.Usually by at most using an attack or two. It’s in the friggin name Dreager, come on. And nothing you’ve shown with any form of amped up power has shown anything remotely close to this either. So yeah, you genuinely just don’t understand what planet buster means.
“In base he was able to keep up with Charizard
and his sword was strong enough where Charizard had to go for the dodge. At this point Greninja’s attacks and speed speak for themselves.”
Charizard wasn’t moving that fast at all to avoid Greninja, it simply sidestepped Greninja with relative ease, and then preceded to dodge like it was no big deal. Not that this is particularly relevant because dodging and speed are irrelevant to my argument, but still. Not helping your case about Greninja’s speed.
“I couldn’t find the ending of the fire shuriken gif but if we power scale it to everything else that Greninja has then it should be an auto W. At that point it would be difficult for Greninja to be anything but a planet buster. The man’s been getting stronger with each and every storyline/fight. So since we’ve seen what the normal one can do, adding in the fire and then making it large is an incredible buff.”
Cool,i’m not gonna scale it to anything if you can’t find the ending so it will be discounted until such time. And the normal star isn’t that impressive so I really don’t care. And again you really don’t understand what planet buster means in any capacity. Greninja has to be able to literally destroy a planet (very preferably in an attack or two) to be considered a planet buster in any way. Not a planet buster, and not an auto W.
Skipping the hype scenes because they’re hype and nothing else by your own admission.
“If Galactus was going to try for any illusions or trickery he needn’t bother. Those things don’t work on Greninja but it should also be noted that this hit looked like it really hurt Lucario.”
Cool, it looks like it hurt, doesn’t prove that it will do any significant damage to Galactus.
“Base Greninja is holding his own with mega Lucario. Do you know what that means?? It means that Greninja has mega level stats in base!! So if you throw his mega form in then that’s absolute insanity. From this we can definitely scale him up to planetary based on how Shadow Mewtwo is planetary and base Mewtwo was able to cause disasters across the entire planet with no effort. Mega Greninja would scale above him even further”
He just chopped some random tentacle with no context to how powerful it is. They jumped at the same time and simply chopped through it. There’s nothing indicating that he needed to have equivalent stats to Mega Lucario to do this, so no this doesn’t indicate that he’s got mega level stats is base. It’s not even them hitting separate tentacles. That would at least show they’re both capable of destroying a single one by themselves. They were hitting it at the same time so there’s no real way to see how much damage both Pokemon did. This whole paragraph is giant leap of logic after giant leap of logic.
After this you completely just jump off the ship of logic by immediately trying to scale this to that dark form Mewtwo, which is totally unrelated to Greninja or Mega Lucario here and doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. You can’t just scale it to Pokemon who are shown to do more damage because you feel like it. They don’t scale to each other because you haven’t in any way demonstrated that they should be scaled to each other. The only way you’ve scaled it is by a feat that you yourself admit is dicey due to game mechanics .
So for Greninja’s keeping up with Mega Lucario there, it looked like they both jumped at the same time and hit the tentacle so that would put their stats at around the same at least on speed. That’s pretty good since a mega form usually amps up your power by a very solid degree so this way it’s more balanced.
Now, I think the elephant in the room is the whole planet busting angle. I can see how this would be a bit of a tricky one but lets put it into perspective. If you can shatter the ground like Greninja then you can planet bust because all you gotta do is charge up enough power to hit the core. Just punch hard enough and the shockwave will go all the way through. Considering that we’ve already seen Greninja go that far then it shouldn’t be a stretch to say that his power could continue and hit the rest of the planet. That’s why it’s easy to become a planet buster because the planet’s not super durable or anything like that.
Then for Greninja’s raw talent with the whole shadow clones not working on him part, that means he can probably use his speed to get Galactus’ guard down. In this case I’m not using the speed in a dodging way but if Galactus attacks and misses because Greninja is already on the other side then he’ll be surprised and that’s where the sneak attacks come in. Odds are good that Greninja could use that momentum to land a lot of hits and chip away at Galactus’ HP.
One thing we haven’t considered a whole lot here is also the fatigue in not being able to stop an opponent. Right now Galactus may have the durability to tank a lot of shots but can he endure his own boredom and frustration? Not being able to land any hits to counter Greninja would have to be frustrating, especially since he can’t escape either. It’s like being stung by a mosquito. At first you don’t care but as the hours go by and it keeps draining blood you can’t help but start to take it seriously. This gets worse and worse until finally you’ve gotten yourself all riled up and will make mistakes.
Finally we have to consider that since Galactus can’t dodge his attacks, Greninja can also go for the weak points. Groin shots and face punches to keep him off balance. No matter how durable you are, those are the kind of hits that will hurt under any context. Galactus won’t be able to last long enough to land the deciding blow. He could fight for ages and still not make it, that’s how powerful Greninja is. He’s the complete package as a fighter, speed, strength, and long range options.
“So for Greninja’s keeping up with Mega Lucario there, it looked like they both jumped at the same time and hit the tentacle so that would put their stats at around the same at least on speed. That’s pretty good since a mega form usually amps up your power by a very solid degree so this way it’s more balanced.”
Cool, their jumping speed is similar. Not helpful for your argument whatsoever. Doesn’t indicate any other stat being equal so it really doesn’t matter.
“Now, I think the elephant in the room is the whole planet busting angle. I can see how this would be a bit of a tricky one but lets put it into perspective. If you can shatter the ground like Greninja then you can planet bust because all you gotta do is charge up enough power to hit the core. Just punch hard enough and the shockwave will go all the way through. Considering that we’ve already seen Greninja go that far then it shouldn’t be a stretch to say that his power could continue and hit the rest of the planet. That’s why it’s easy to become a planet buster because the planet’s not super durable or anything like that.”
Absolutely not. Being able to make some cracks in the ground does not at all mean you can destroy an entire planet with a charged attack. Provide evidence from the source material that Greninja is even remotely capable of anything close to destroying an entire planet. That is a pure baseless assertions on your part with zero evidence to back it up.If the Pokémon world’s planet is anything like our it would be at least over 1800 miles deep. There is absolutely no way Greninja can manage even a significant fraction of that. Even if it was half or a quarter the thickness it wouldn’t matter. Greninja hasn’t even broken through 100 FEET which isn’t even remotely close to 1 mile (5,280 ft) let alone anything close to the depth of the core of a planet. To act as if this constitutes Greninja being a planet buster again shows you do not understand what being a planet buster entails. Even charging his power is not going to suddenly make him be able to get remotely close to the core, as you’ve shown nothing from Greninja demonstrating anything near a fraction of this. Not how planet busting works Dreager.
“Then for Greninja’s raw talent with the whole shadow clones not working on him part, that means he can probably use his speed to get Galactus’ guard down. In this case I’m not using the speed in a dodging way but if Galactus attacks and misses because Greninja is already on the other side then he’ll be surprised and that’s where the sneak attacks come in. Odds are good that Greninja could use that momentum to land a lot of hits and chip away at Galactus’ HP.”
I’ve already explained that sneak attacks don’t suddenly increase attack power, and certainly not against Galactus. And the hypothetical “What if Galactus attacks” situation you keep peddling isn’t helpful either. Not even because Galactus is unlikely to just begin attacking willy nilly, which he likely won’t. It’s not helpful because it has zero bearing on Galactus’ durability whatsoever, and is then connected to other premise I just discussed which also does nothing significant to Galactus’ durability.
“One thing we haven’t considered a whole lot here is also the fatigue in not being able to stop an opponent. Right now Galactus may have the durability to tank a lot of shots but can he endure his own boredom and frustration? Not being able to land any hits to counter Greninja would have to be frustrating, especially since he can’t escape either. It’s like being stung by a mosquito. At first you don’t care but as the hours go by and it keeps draining blood you can’t help but start to take it seriously. This gets worse and worse until finally you’ve gotten yourself all riled up and will make mistakes.”
Can he endure sitting around and not giving a damn about being attacked? Well quite honestly it’s irrelevant, because it has zero bearing on his durability. There’s a good chance he won’t even feel a lot of Greninja’s attacks, they probably won’t even be like a mosquito bite. It doesn’t make Greninja’s attacks any stronger or Galactus’ durability any weaker. And yes I’m directly saying it doesn’t matter in the slightest if he “makes mistakes”. They will not affect his durability in any significant way. He can literally just move wherever he wants and not even care about Greninja attacking him pretty much ever. You wanna talk about frustration, how about attacking something much larger, much heavier, and more durable than anything you’ve faced before and having your a lot of your attacks do no significant damage? All while you’re incrementally losing stamina while being on the offensive the vast majority of the time compared to your opponents That’s far more frustrating and far more likely to cause problems.
“Finally we have to consider that since Galactus can’t dodge his attacks, Greninja can also go for the weak points. Groin shots and face punches to keep him off balance. No matter how durable you are, those are the kind of hits that will hurt under any context. Galactus won’t be able to last long enough to land the deciding blow. He could fight for ages and still not make it, that’s how powerful Greninja is. He’s the complete package as a fighter, speed, strength, and long range options.”
High durability like Galactus’ is literally designed to tank hits that would normally be weak spots in less durable beings. You don’t just get to assert that the pain of a crotch shot or face punch applies to Galactus because it just hurts. His durability doesn’t suddenly go away because he gets a hit in those places. This lends zero help to your argument that Galactus can’t tank enough damage for Greninja to tire out. As for the complete package, I agree to a very limited extent. What I mean is in the context of his universe Greninja certainly is a powerful contender in those regards against a lot of Pokemon.
But his speed is nothing special compared to the foes Galactus has fought, his strength is a similar story to his speed, and long range attacks are absolutely nothing new to Galactus. Still not even remotely convinced.
All right, it looks like I haven’t convinced you yet so I’ll have to try some different approaches here. First, it’s important to remember that Galactus’ opponents tend to rush straight at him and attack which nullifies their speed advantage. Seriously, they get in close to get absolutely devastated each and every time while I’m just wondering why they would do that. Greninja wouldn’t be making that mistake so this would be a very different battle than what Galactus is used to. He’s never fought an opponent who effectively used his speed as keepaway.
Even with extra durability your weak points should still be the same. Granted, I can’t find anyone landing an effective groin punch on Galactus so I guess I’ll have to leave that one alone for now.
So for the planet busting angle, here’s what I’m thinking. If the core of the planet is taken out then it is absolutely doomed and would end up exploding. We’ve seen that Greninja can punch into the ground and likewise with his shruiken. What’s to stop him from punching the ground and then throwing the shuriken down the hole? In theory it would just keep going until it has cleaved the Earth in two. The attack is certainly sharp enough for it.
If we take that to be true, then there is also nothing to suggest that it wouldn’t cut Galactus in two? If the Shuriken just keeps going until it has gone all the way then that’s a legitimate threat to Galactus’ safety. Lets take a look at some other instances of the shuriken to make the case here.
For starters, the attack doesn’t dissipate even after it was cut. The two pieces remaining still caused explosions of their own. So if Galactus is somehow fast enough to chop the attack in half, he’ll still be taking damage to both sides.
The attack is also able to reflect energy blasts so if Galactus gets overconfident and tries to attack Greninja directly, well it’s not going to work out so well for him. Greninja can react to those attacks at high speeds and just keep on going without any real issue there.
This one’s just to show more of the speed and power. Not only did we see it take out a Pokemon in one hit but it moved at absolutely incredible speeds. If we take physics into account here then that means the attack was many times stronger than normal.
There’s not much practical use for this one but if the area is cold enough then Greninja can create his own ice board of sorts.
Now this last one is the smoking bullet in my case. We directly see Greninja stab through the ground this time. He was aiming for a basic shockwave so he still sent it forward but if he had shot that straight down then it certainly looks like it would have cut the Earth in two right? At the very least we have to acknowledge that it was a possibility there and it’s hard to see Galactus’ armor being able to block that. Sure, his overall durability may be able to outstrip the attack but piercing attacks are different than blunt force ones. If Galactus is cut in two then the durability wouldn’t even matter
:All right, it looks like I haven’t convinced you yet so I’ll have to try some different approaches here. First, it’s important to remember that Galactus’ opponents tend to rush straight at him and attack which nullifies their speed advantage. Seriously, they get in close to get absolutely devastated each and every time while I’m just wondering why they would do that. Greninja wouldn’t be making that mistake so this would be a very different battle than what Galactus is used to. He’s never fought an opponent who effectively used his speed as keepaway.”
The only reason speed is an issue is because you keep making it one. Regardless if your point about speed being a keepaway is true, it has no bearing on Greninja’s attack power so it’s irrelevant. I’ve made this point abundantly clear. Stop making it a point, it does not help your case.
“Even with extra durability your weak points should still be the same. Granted, I can’t find anyone landing an effective groin punch on Galactus so I guess I’ll have to leave that one alone for now.”
Cool, so this will be dismissed as an argument in the future. Great.
“So for the planet busting angle, here’s what I’m thinking. If the core of the planet is taken out then it is absolutely doomed and would end up exploding. We’ve seen that Greninja can punch into the ground and likewise with his shruiken. What’s to stop him from punching the ground and then throwing the shuriken down the hole? In theory it would just keep going until it has cleaved the Earth in two. The attack is certainly sharp enough for it.”
What’s stopping him is that you have shown zero evidence of him being able to get into the core or get anywhere close. This is based on pure speculation that you made up to wank Greninja. Show an example of Greninja destroying an entire planet or drop this point. To make this clear it must be Greninja doing this, no other Pokemon or anyone else from a different universe. And it must be Greninja literally destroying an entire planet via destroying a planet’s core. If you cannot show this then it is pointless to continue making this argument.
“If we take that to be true, then there is also nothing to suggest that it wouldn’t cut Galactus in two? If the Shuriken just keeps going until it has gone all the way then that’s a legitimate threat to Galactus’ safety. Lets take a look at some other instances of the shuriken to make the case here.”
“For starters, the attack doesn’t dissipate even after it was cut. The two pieces remaining still caused explosions of their own. So if Galactus is somehow fast enough to chop the attack in half, he’ll still be taking damage to both sides.”
Irrelevant, Galactus wouldn’t bother cutting this attack, we’ve been over this multiple times. And it does next to no damage to Sceptile so it’s really not going to do anything to Galactus Not helpful whatsoever to your argument.
“The attack is also able to reflect energy blasts so if Galactus gets overconfident and tries to attack Greninja directly, well it’s not going to work out so well for him. Greninja can react to those attacks at high speeds and just keep on going without any real issue there.”
Even looking at the energy blasts of Galactus for a second, it’s obvious that his are way bigger than what you’ve shown for Greninja. And besides, he’s gotten through forcefields no problem before, so it really doesn’t matter if Greninja attempts to block it. Buy again this is all dependent on Galactus becoming overconfident and attacking willy nilly, and we’ve discussed this issue multiple times now.
“This one’s just to show more of the speed and power. Not only did we see it take out a Pokemon in one hit but it moved at absolutely incredible speeds. If we take physics into account here then that means the attack was many times stronger than normal.”
It one shot something significantly less durable to the point of ridiculousness. I really don’t have to go into more detail as to why this isn’t impressive to me. You should know that by now.
Ignoring the ice skates since you yourself admit it’s not really practical.
“Now this last one is the smoking bullet in my case. We directly see Greninja stab through the ground this time. He was aiming for a basic shockwave so he still sent it forward but if he had shot that straight down then it certainly looks like it would have cut the Earth in two right? At the very least we have to acknowledge that it was a possibility there and it’s hard to see Galactus’ armor being able to block that. Sure, his overall durability may be able to outstrip the attack but piercing attacks are different than blunt force ones. If Galactus is cut in two then the durability wouldn’t even matter”
He stabbed into the ground and made some cracks. This does not indicate in any way that he is capable of extending that all the way to a planet’s core. It being a possibility does not matter in any capacity if you cannot show that it extends to that point. If you don’t have evidence that Greninja HAS does this specific feat then it’s completely irrelevant. You can speculate about possibilities that haven’t been demonstrated to be true or you can provide direct evidence of the feat your describing as possible. I will only accept the latter and will reject all attempts at using the former. They do not prove anything. And since your first premise of Greninja destroying a planet via core destruction is not verified with an accompanying feat I’m categorically rejecting this argument. You’ve been entirely unable to prove Greninja is a planet buster, and until you can show direct evidence of Greninja accomplishing this, the argument should be put to rest and you should move on to a different argument. Utterly unconvinced yet again, Dreager.
All right, it may be time to convince you with this one. So we’ll move away from Greninja being a planet buster for now and will go into more high level specs for this. So ignoring the planet busting angle, we’ve still seen that Greninja can split the ground asunder with his moves. So that’s still a good base point here. He can use that to cause Galactus to lose his balance as there won’t be proper footing for him. As Galactus goes down, the sheer weight of his own figure would ensure that he would take some damage here too. It’s why the bigger a person is, the more a fall hurts them. Without being able to stay properly balanced, Galactus will be taking hits both from Greninja and his own self.
So this helps to reduce the amount of blows that Greninja needs to land and significantly makes this an easier fight. Even if you take away the brute force of the impact, Greninja mainly fights with piercing blows that bypass durability. Not a whole lot you can do against attacks like that.
We also haven’t talked about the elemental damage all that much here. Greninja specializes in water attacks which will naturally slow Galactus down since water weight is a factor here. It all comes down to durability of course but this is why Galactus would really have his hands full here. At the end of the day I don’t think he is really prepared to take someone like Greninja on, not just yet at least. That’s without even talking about the speed and planet busting angles.
Greninja continues to get stronger like with his Ash form and should be able to dominate the matchup since all he has to do is conserve his stamina so it doesn’t run out before he wins
“All right, it may be time to convince you with this one. So we’ll move away from Greninja being a planet buster for now and will go into more high level specs for this. So ignoring the planet busting angle, we’ve still seen that Greninja can split the ground asunder with his moves. So that’s still a good base point here. He can use that to cause Galactus to lose his balance as there won’t be proper footing for him. As Galactus goes down, the sheer weight of his own figure would ensure that he would take some damage here too. It’s why the bigger a person is, the more a fall hurts them. Without being able to stay properly balanced, Galactus will be taking hits both from Greninja and his own self.”
It’s an absolutely worthless base point that even if the best case scenario occurs where it causes Galactus to fall, which given the sizes he can become is a big if, there is zero reason to believe that it will do any damage whatsoever. It would be a blunt impact with the ground, which is absolutely nothing compared to the moon feat. Not a helpful point whatsoever, and hell even in the example you provided many comments ago that had him falling from a direct impact did no visible damage to him. And that was without taking the moon feat into consideration.
“So this helps to reduce the amount of blows that Greninja needs to land and significantly makes this an easier fight. Even if you take away the brute force of the impact, Greninja mainly fights with piercing blows that bypass durability. Not a whole lot you can do against attacks like that.”
Yeah you’ve shown a lot of moves that have piercing elements to them against comparatively less durable opponents in comparison to Galactus. And many of them aren’t all that impressive. We’ve literally been picking apart a bunch of moves from Greninja’s main moveset this whole time. They didn’t just nullify durability with the Pokemon you showed, and they certainly won’t do so with Galactus. The idea that piercing attacks are just going to bypass durability like it’s some sort of knife through butter and there’s nothing durability can do against it is silly. Especially since there’s no example of straight up nullifying durability in any of the scans you’ve shown trying to demonstrate Greninja’s attack power. Irrelevant argument that has nothing to really back it up.
“We also haven’t talked about the elemental damage all that much here. Greninja specializes in water attacks which will naturally slow Galactus down since water weight is a factor here. It all comes down to durability of course but this is why Galactus would really have his hands full here. At the end of the day I don’t think he is really prepared to take someone like Greninja on, not just yet at least. That’s without even talking about the speed and planet busting angles.”
Oh yes we have. You tried using this as an argument before on May 28th. I already explained that trying to take the water type attacks and then using game mechanics from an entirely separate universe is irrelevant. Here’s what you said back then:
“We also have to consider that these attacks are water based so Galactus will be getting wet and ever so slightly slower like a damp effect in world of warcraft. So everything keeps on adding up in Greninja’s favor. As long as he has attacks that can wound Galactus then he has ones that can finish him off. It may take some time (Not millions of blows though) but Greninja will punch through eventually.”
Or here when you tried to make another variation of what is essentially the same argument on June 12th
““The scans still show that Galactus is a very proud man who will yell and speak in a grand way. If he sees someone like Greninja slapping him with his tongue (Greninja’s scarf looking thing is actually his tongue) and other little water attacks that will make his armor soggy, Galactus isn’t going to like that. He will be forced to respond since his heralds aren’t here and that’s where he will go down for the count. It will be difficult for him to resist using a lot of attacks and expending massive amounts of energy trying to hit Greninja.”
You can’t even keep track of which arguments you’ve already tried and failed to use. Don’t bother with the argument against, you have yet to prove that water weight is a significant factor in any way. None of the moves from any of the scans you’ve shown have provided any evidence that this water elemental effect will appear on any of the Pokemon here let alone be a significant factor against them, and certainly let alone be a factor against Galactus. You’ve made different versions of this argument multiple times and have come up entirely short in proving it. Provide the evidence, or drop the argument.
“Greninja continues to get stronger like with his Ash form and should be able to dominate the matchup since all he has to do is conserve his stamina so it doesn’t run out before he wins”
Nothing about the Ash form has remotely impressed by so this mean jack squat. Once again completely unconvinced.
All right, it’s time to end July with a bang then. I think this time you’ll at least be partially convinced. The Ash Form definitely has way better stats than the base mode though. Remember all those hype clips of him fighting Charizard? It wouldn’t have been possible without the terrifying power that this form brings to the table. It’s no exaggeration to say that it’s what helps put Greninja on the map.
For the water argument, what proof do we need to show that it’s a water based attack? Just think of how when you’re in a water park if you fall into the pool then you feel heavier as you try to walk out. It’s all the pure water weight so if Greninja is constantly blasting Galactus with that kind of water, it makes sense that he would feel heavy and start to get slower. This would make the speed difference even more drastic and really put him on the defensive in this fight. Being on the defensive is absolutely what he doesn’t want to happen so that would make things tricky.
For the falling part, I still say we have to consider this one. It’s like if we get hit really hard by someone in a fight and shrug it off. It doesn’t mean that we’ll be able to tank the damage if we fall down outside. Falling down has always been something that all life is really susceptible too. You can get heavily injured from a normal fall even if a big fight didn’t hurt. It’s the same principle here.
It also makes me wonder if Greninja could intentionally try to shift his weight to make Galactus hit his head in the fall or fall on the knee to lower his mobility. Not saying it would be easy but Greninja has the advantage of choosing his targets since Galactus is so massively huge.
I don’t think we talked too much about the water tower:
But going back to the water part, if Galactus is trapped inside one of these, he’ll be forced to act and expend some energy to get rid of it. Meanwhile Greninja could be landing all kinds of physical blows:
Lets not forget that he can use his water to fly and make all kinds of constructs:
So even if it takes a lot of attacks to win, it’ll come eventually. Greninja even knows how to use smokescreen and double team to increase his evasion the whole time so Galactus won’t know where or who to hit
“All right, it’s time to end July with a bang then. I think this time you’ll at least be partially convinced. The Ash Form definitely has way better stats than the base mode though. Remember all those hype clips of him fighting Charizard? It wouldn’t have been possible without the terrifying power that this form brings to the table. It’s no exaggeration to say that it’s what helps put Greninja on the map.”
Remember all those Charizard clips that i thoroughly explained why I didn’t find them impressive? Yeah no, you haven’t shown a hype clip that demonstrates that Greninja has any sort of significant power against Galactus at all with or without Ash Form.
“For the water argument, what proof do we need to show that it’s a water based attack? Just think of how when you’re in a water park if you fall into the pool then you feel heavier as you try to walk out. It’s all the pure water weight so if Greninja is constantly blasting Galactus with that kind of water, it makes sense that he would feel heavy and start to get slower. This would make the speed difference even more drastic and really put him on the defensive in this fight. Being on the defensive is absolutely what he doesn’t want to happen so that would make things tricky.”
I know it’s a water based attack, don’t make such a silly point. You haven’t even demonstrated his attacks doing this to opponents in his OWN universe let alone Galactus. This is not at all like falling in the pool of a water park. That would imply that Galactus would be entirely covered by water. That’s obviously NOT how Greninja usually operates if the clips you’ve shown indicate anything. Provide evidence of Greninja applying this effect to other Pokemon first, then i’ll give it the tiniest bit of credence. If you can’t, drop the argument.
“For the falling part, I still say we have to consider this one. It’s like if we get hit really hard by someone in a fight and shrug it off. It doesn’t mean that we’ll be able to tank the damage if we fall down outside. Falling down has always been something that all life is really susceptible too. You can get heavily injured from a normal fall even if a big fight didn’t hurt. It’s the same principle here.”
No we don’t. You showed Galactus getting hit to the point where he fell down. It did absolutely nothing major to him. I explained exactly HOW it did nothing to him. Ergo, your point about him falling is irrelevant. And the moon feat makes it irrelevant anyways because it is a far more impressive feat that supersedes it. You’re simply rambling about things that you’ve haven’t shown to be true. This point will be dismissed in further comments. Do not bother with this argument, it’s completely irrelevant and verging on incoherent.
“It also makes me wonder if Greninja could intentionally try to shift his weight to make Galactus hit his head in the fall or fall on the knee to lower his mobility. Not saying it would be easy but Greninja has the advantage of choosing his targets since Galactus is so massively huge.”
Irrelevant, Galactus is much larger and heavier than anything Greninja’s faced before, and you yourself admit it would be difficult.
“I don’t think we talked too much about the water tower:
But going back to the water part, if Galactus is trapped inside one of these, he’ll be forced to act and expend some energy to get rid of it. Meanwhile Greninja could be landing all kinds of physical blows:”
Keyword “if”. He almost certainly won’t be trapped, it’ll hit him, dissipate after a bit, and be done with. Galactus is again much larger, heavier, and for the millionth time more durable than the Pokemon being attacked in any of your scans.
As for the strikes Greninja’s getting, they’d do absolutely nothing to Galactus. They’re not even knocking Mega Abomasnow on his ass or anything. Greninja’s just knocking his head around. Even if he’s unable to really fight back Mega Abomasnow’s taking those hits pretty well all things considered. And Galactus is on a much larger scale than him so this feat is irrelevant.
“So even if it takes a lot of attacks to win, it’ll come eventually. Greninja even knows how to use smokescreen and double team to increase his evasion the whole time so Galactus won’t know where or who to hit”
He won’t be hitting anything for the vast majority of the battle because he won’t care to. I’ve made this point several times. Stick. To. Greninja’s. Attack. Power. Greninja’s attack power vs Galactus’ durability is the only thing that matters. Why do you keep ignoring this essential part of my argument? I’ve explained why it’s irrelevant on multiple occasions.
You’ve completely failed to give any viable reason why Greninja should win this battle once again. You’ve ended July with a whimper, not a bang, and i’m still completely unconvinced.
All right maybe July ended with a whimper but then that means it’s time to start September off right. I think we’ve got to go back to ground zero here to build Greninja up from the top.
In Greninja’s earlier form before his adult mode and even before mega mode, he was able to create a large energy ball to deflect an incoming attack and then send it off as a powerful energy blast. Scaling that up to Greninja mode and then to mega form would make that attack even stronger. As you said we have to focus on Greninja’s attack power and this is a good way to do it. Galactus would have to contend with giant energy attacks like this on a rapid basis.
https://external-preview.redd.it/9f0DgUX-w5whxzfxWafsq46N51rjjK0o9-nUAPP3HE0.jpg?auto=webp&s=52f0eef2f3e39f036b1870d155543d4983f204b3
Galactus has been injured by an energy blast that only shot him through one wall and didn’t break the rock behind him. So based on that, any of Grenija’s attacks where he pierces he ground or shoots someone through an object should be able to do comparable damage. Whether the attack can bust a universe or not, the focused energy seems to be about the same.
We’re not looking at durability much but still good to see that Greninja was able to stay in the game even after a big hit from Charizard.
and his speed was enough to dodge this guy’s Grovyle
But in terms of power this is what we wanna see:
He was able to land a solid hit against Charizard here, a foe that has shrugged off all kinds of attacks before. This is true power, this is Greninja!
So for now lets bypass the speed advantage here and if we go by Greninja’s full power
If Greninja is landing these full power blows as well as focused energy attacks then he’ll be destroying Galactus one shot at a time. As he peels off the guy’s armor and destroys him from all sides, there will just be no way to get around that. Galactus may have survived the moon hit but that was still one hit while these are numerous
“In Greninja’s earlier form before his adult mode and even before mega mode, he was able to create a large energy ball to deflect an incoming attack and then send it off as a powerful energy blast. Scaling that up to Greninja mode and then to mega form would make that attack even stronger. As you said we have to focus on Greninja’s attack power and this is a good way to do it. Galactus would have to contend with giant energy attacks like this on a rapid basis.”
Cool, shows nothing about the attack power of the ball itself, just shows it can reflect some energy beams and take down a Pokemon smaller than it. It doesn’t even show what happens after the hit, but regardless of if it was a knockout or not it’s still not reflective of anything Greninja’s energy attacks are doing, it’s the energy of another Pokemon. And it takes at least 30 seconds for this reflected attack to even occur. And Galactus as i’ve detailed several times is unlikely to just whip out attacks like that willy nilly. This is a terrible way to show Greninja’s attack power being effective against Galactus, and will be dismissed in further comments.
“Galactus has been injured by an energy blast that only shot him through one wall and didn’t break the rock behind him. So based on that, any of Grenija’s attacks where he pierces he ground or shoots someone through an object should be able to do comparable damage. Whether the attack can bust a universe or not, the focused energy seems to be about the same.”
The attack doesn’t actually seem to injure him whatsoever, just knocks him back. No visible damage is shown so you can’t claim this is an actual injury. And since Galactus is heavier and larger than anything you’ve shown Greninja competing with it’s pretty safe to say that this beam is significantly stronger than anything you’ve shown from Greninja, and again no visible damage was done. Thanos is capable of annihilating a spaceship in a single blow, alongside owning The Thing, Hulk, and friggin Thor. So no Greninja and Thanos’ energy attacks are not comparable.
So let’s show the aftermath alongside the attack since you didn’t show that part on this specific comment (more on that later)
As you can see the absolute most it did is destroy the helmet (and not even all of it, you can see it in the background) and leave some small fires on Galactus. No actual damage was sustained and Galactus is still perfectly capable of getting right back up. Not at all indicative of your points.
And furthermore leading back to you not showing the aftermath, i’ve responded to that second panel before (June 11th) and the answer basically stays the same as what i’ve said here and in the comment after. The person he’s up against is friggin Thanos, and i’ve detailed why it’s not comparable to Greninja both here and there.
“and his speed was enough to dodge this guy’s Grovyle”
Cool, shows no attack power and simply a bunch of dodging. You know this isn’t really that helpful just like the durability feat above it and yet you put it here anyways.
“But in terms of power this is what we wanna see:”
It’s not what I want to see, it’s just another generic hit that’s cut off before you can even see the results of the attack. But by the looks of what you showed it’s just Charizard flinching a bit after being hit. It’s not anything that’s knocking him back immediately
“He was able to land a solid hit against Charizard here, a foe that has shrugged off all kinds of attacks before. This is true power, this is Greninja!”
This is true overhyping, this is you being lost in the sauce!
“If Greninja is landing these full power blows as well as focused energy attacks then he’ll be destroying Galactus one shot at a time. As he peels off the guy’s armor and destroys him from all sides, there will just be no way to get around that. Galactus may have survived the moon hit but that was still one hit while these are numerous”
You tried using the final smash before as a sort of smoking gun, this is what I said before:
“First off the beginning of the attack is entirely based on launching an opponent into the air, there’s no way he’s doing that with Galactus. And the rapid blows are weak even by Greninja’s standards, as a lot of his normal attacks can get past the measly 2 percent damage that they deal. And these are the same types of unimpressive attacks you’ve been showing this whole time. Hell this is less impressive movement speed wise then the the non attacking feat of him running around. So this is absolutely NOT a smoking gun, don’t kid yourself Dreager.”
And hell you still even have on this very comment a non attacking feat that was generally faster and more impressive. I stand by what I said here. It wasn’t impressive the first time you showed it, it hasn’t become anymore so now. And this isn’t even getting into game mechanics, where this somehow does about the same damage on every single character, regardless of durable they might be.
The point of the moon is that it is way more powerful than all of these numerous hits combined. That’s the whole point of all the calculations I did to show that you would need an absurd amount of hits to be equivalent to it. Even in the situations where the energy attack help it still would be utterly absurd the many thousands of hits required to be equivalent to something that did absolutely nothing to Galactus. Another whimper of a response, still utterly unconvinced.
When Charizard fought another Charizard one of them was slammed to the ground so hard that even Alain was surprised and had to guard himself.
Keep in mind that he’s been in a lot of fights before. This Charizard is the one that just barely beat Greninja and yet he got taken down easily by this other Charizard. This means they are fully capable of moving and attacking really hard even beyond the calcs.
All right I think I see where I was going wrong. Like you noted the aftermath often wouldn’t show up in the gif. So instead I’m attaching a video below and will point to the relevant time stamps.
00-00:03 Greninja lands a solid gut punch on Charizard that causes him to gasp and then Greninja slams him into the ground causing some destruction to the planet itself. You can actually see the mini crater there. This is an incredible feat not only because the Charizard he is fighting is so strong but doing that to anyone is crazy.
00:46-00:53 We’re mostly sticking away from defensive feats since they won’t matter much but Greninja tanked a dragon claw straight up with minimal damage. So on the off chance Galactus is able to land in some kind of lucky shot we can expect Greninja to walk away from it.
2:04-2:25 Finally I’d been posting that giant fire shuriken for a while but none of the gifs showed the impact before now. Look how the explosion even rises above the audience chairs and nearly to the top of the stadium? You’re definitely not getting up from that, it’s just way too powerful of an attack. Trust me on this, it’s just way too much. And that’s considering that Charizard was able to block it to an extent. Since it could even pierce the ground we can reasonably say that this is the kind of attack with incalcable strength. Putting it up with the Moon feat is interesting because this could slice through the Moon just as it did the Earth (By breaking through parts of the ground) so as a direct shot it should pierce through Galactus as well.
“When Charizard fought another Charizard one of them was slammed to the ground so hard that even Alain was surprised and had to guard himself.”
So a regular ass human guarded himself from some winds made by a Charizard falling. OK, totally irrelevant but OK.
“Keep in mind that he’s been in a lot of fights before. This Charizard is the one that just barely beat Greninja and yet he got taken down easily by this other Charizard. This means they are fully capable of moving and attacking really hard even beyond the calcs.”
None of this particularly matters. None of what you’ve shown is at all comparable to the Moon feat so this GIF is irrelevant in its entirety.
“00-00:03 Greninja lands a solid gut punch on Charizard that causes him to gasp and then Greninja slams him into the ground causing some destruction to the planet itself. You can actually see the mini crater there. This is an incredible feat not only because the Charizard he is fighting is so strong but doing that to anyone is crazy.”
OK so this was even less impressive than I thought it was going to be. The crater is hardly even a crater, just a thin cracking of the ground and then Charizard gets right back up. The moon feat if applied equivalently here would destroy the entire arena and all the surrounding area for many miles out. This is lost in the sauce Dreager coming out once again.
Ignoring 0:46 to 0:53 since you know that it doesn’t matter to me
“2:04-2:25 Finally I’d been posting that giant fire shuriken for a while but none of the gifs showed the impact before now. Look how the explosion even rises above the audience chairs and nearly to the top of the stadium? You’re definitely not getting up from that, it’s just way too powerful of an attack. Trust me on this, it’s just way too much. And that’s considering that Charizard was able to block it to an extent. Since it could even pierce the ground we can reasonably say that this is the kind of attack with incalcable strength. Putting it up with the Moon feat is interesting because this could slice through the Moon just as it did the Earth (By breaking through parts of the ground) so as a direct shot it should pierce through Galactus as well.”
Again you show me a feat far less impressive than I was envisioning. It doesn’t even spread across the entire arena, it just rises in a specific area. And the resulting explosion does jack shit to Charizard. Dude’s just chilling, maybe shook up a bit, and then roars after they win.
So no, there’s absolutely no way this is ripping a whole moon apart under any circumstances, it couldn’t even tear apart the land around Greninja in the arena. In fact it confirms even more that Greninja doesn’t have the attack power to win this battle. This massive fire shuriken that acted as a really powerful final move was unable to accomplish anything other than a relative to this fight, weak explosion. You’ve played yourself once again.
Alain having to defend himself was only critical because that guy usually doesn’t brace himself for anything. He’s one of the most hardboiled characters in the Pokemon franchise and that’s how powerful this attack was.
I’d still consider that attack to be a crater though. It may not be Earthshattering but the fact that Greninja did that casually was crazy. Most characters would need to really put in some effort to fully match that and even then I have doubts on if they would be able to do it. There’s levels to this and Greninja was able to make it there. It’s not as impressive as the Moon but now imagine Greninja using some of his real attacks so we have to scale that up and then he can just spam it really far.
That Fire shuriken was crazy though. Charizard tanked it but he’s a fire type so that makes sense. If it had been a water shuriken…well that would have been a different story for sure. Now that’s an attack where Charizard would have been unable to get back up at all. He would just be done, solo’d.
It goes back to Galactus just not being fast enough here. Greninja can keep hitting him with these crater inducing hits. Imagine the force of those hits landing on Galactus’ head the whole time. Even if his overall durability is enough to handle this, I have my doubts on how long he would last otherwise. Galactus would have to try and repel Greninja but the sheer wave of attacks would make it hard for him to even see. It would be like navigating through an asteroid field but with no real end in sight.
1:33-1:36 Greninja’s attack makes another big spike type explosion but this time it’s a water element strike. Imagine Galactus trying to fend off fire and water attacks like this. The blades were also sharp enough to completely cut powerful vines to pieces so if he gets too close then that will take him out as well. Ultimately he would be out of luck here.
“Alain having to defend himself was only critical because that guy usually doesn’t brace himself for anything. He’s one of the most hardboiled characters in the Pokemon franchise and that’s how powerful this attack was.”
Yeah and it has absolutely nothing to do with the durability of Galactus.
“I’d still consider that attack to be a crater though. It may not be Earthshattering but the fact that Greninja did that casually was crazy. Most characters would need to really put in some effort to fully match that and even then I have doubts on if they would be able to do it. There’s levels to this and Greninja was able to make it there. It’s not as impressive as the Moon but now imagine Greninja using some of his real attacks so we have to scale that up and then he can just spam it really far.”
It’s a pitiful crater. It showcases nothing that can’t be overcome thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times by the moon feat. This crater is irrelevant whether casually done or not. This will be ignored in future comments, it’s simply not powerful enough to matter whatsoever.
“That Fire shuriken was crazy though. Charizard tanked it but he’s a fire type so that makes sense. If it had been a water shuriken…well that would have been a different story for sure. Now that’s an attack where Charizard would have been unable to get back up at all. He would just be done, solo’d.”
The water shu entirely based on conjecture with no scans to back it up. And it’s further irrelevant because none of it compares to the moon feat which still heavily outclasses it.
“It goes back to Galactus just not being fast enough here. Greninja can keep hitting him with these crater inducing hits. Imagine the force of those hits landing on Galactus’ head the whole time. Even if his overall durability is enough to handle this, I have my doubts on how long he would last otherwise. Galactus would have to try and repel Greninja but the sheer wave of attacks would make it hard for him to even see. It would be like navigating through an asteroid field but with no real end in sight.”
Speed is irrelevant for all the reasons i’ve detailed many times, and the crater inducing hits are pitiful compared to what he’s taking. And you literally just admitted that his overall durability is enough to tank it. That’s the only durability that matters Dreager, that’s the durability we’ve been discussing this entire time. You can go on and on about Greninja bringing out a bunch of attacks that supposedly are like navigating an asteroid field. But the overall durability is all that matters. It’s all about Greninja being able to do that before getting exhausted. And you admitting that Galactus can handle it is an admission of defeat.
“1:33-1:36 Greninja’s attack makes another big spike type explosion but this time it’s a water element strike. Imagine Galactus trying to fend off fire and water attacks like this. The blades were also sharp enough to completely cut powerful vines to pieces so if he gets too close then that will take him out as well. Ultimately he would be out of luck here.”
Technically I don’t need to respond to this because you just admitted that his overall durability can handle Greninja’s attacks but what the hell I respond to this too. Vines are not comparable to Galactus. Mega Sceptile, especially without any scans to corroborate it is not comparable to Galactus if they get bodied in one shuriken. None of this is at all relevant enough power wise to matter.
All right lets take this into perspective here. I do think that Galactus can handle some of Greninja’s attacks but not enough of them to truly make a difference. He’ll still be getting tired the whole time which will make him tired and sloppy. If Galactus doesn’t counter then the attacks will eventually destroy him and if he does then he loses even more energy. Greninja has tremendous stamina and can keep on fighting for as long as it takes to win. That is the power of Greninja, one of the most powerful Pokemon in the world. Fear his power for he holds nothing back.
For something more concrete though, lets go back to the crater inducing hits. Lets keep in mind that he can use these casually so the energy drain is minimal to the point of being nonexistent. How many craters would fill a moon? I don’t know but I do know that the repeated hits to the head can’t be good and he can keep on smashing into Galactus until the guy eventually waves the white flag.
Going away from the scans and feats for a moment, the main thing is if Galactus can tank mini versions of the Moon strike in quick succession and I don’t think he can. Each hit will continue to deliver injuries to Galactus and no matter how small in scale they are, the power behind them is very real
“All right lets take this into perspective here. I do think that Galactus can handle some of Greninja’s attacks but not enough of them to truly make a difference. He’ll still be getting tired the whole time which will make him tired and sloppy. If Galactus doesn’t counter then the attacks will eventually destroy him and if he does then he loses even more energy. Greninja has tremendous stamina and can keep on fighting for as long as it takes to win. That is the power of Greninja, one of the most powerful Pokemon in the world. Fear his power for he holds nothing back.”
I’m not even going to go into detail on this.Everything about the moon feat below falsifies this entire paragraph and Greninja’s attack power. We’ve been over this before Dreager.
“For something more concrete though, lets go back to the crater inducing hits. Lets keep in mind that he can use these casually so the energy drain is minimal to the point of being nonexistent. How many craters would fill a moon? I don’t know but I do know that the repeated hits to the head can’t be good and he can keep on smashing into Galactus until the guy eventually waves the white flag.”
Do you really want to get into comparing craters to moons again Dreager? We did this with the Barbaracle crater for several comments where you tried to deny the math I did right in front of you and tried to scale it down multiple times until you gave up and moved on. And this crater isn’t even as deep as the Barbaracle crater so it’s irrelevant. It would at least take many thousands of these hits to fill a noticeable part of a moon.
Here’s the size of the moon compared to this crater once again because you didn’t comprehend it last time
11,399,520 ft = 2,159 miles is the diameter of the moon so the crater must be at least that size.
Mega Charizard is 1.7m or about 5.6 feet
11,399,520 ft/ 5.6ft = 2,023.128.57143 or rounded up 2,023,129 attacks to be equivalent to a moon sized crater.
Again as I said previously with the Barbaracle crater, even if I scale the size of Charizard’s crater 20 or 30 times, it would still be many thousands of attacks to be equivalent to an attack that did absolutely nothing to Galactus. Even if the power drain is minimal it will still be way too many attacks for Greninja to get out before becoming exhausted.
And no, concentrated attacks are not an acceptable response to this, we’ve been over this before. There is absolutely nothing you have that is remotely comparable to the Moon feat and you’ve utterly failed to establish such a feat throughout this entire discussion. Drop this point Dreager, it does not serve your argument whatsoever.
This is the message you will get if you do not concede this already thoroughly debunked and rebutted point
“Already discussed this argument, move on Dreager”
“Going away from the scans and feats for a moment, the main thing is if Galactus can tank mini versions of the Moon strike in quick succession and I don’t think he can. Each hit will continue to deliver injuries to Galactus and no matter how small in scale they are, the power behind them is very real”
Already discussed this argument, move on Dreager
Okay but Roshi has destroyed the Moon before.
So it’s not like the Moon is unbreakable. What’s to stop Greninja from just slicing it in half with a water disc or hydro pump? In theory it would go the same way as Roshi’s blast and if we take that to be fact then those hits would do some real damage to Galactus the whole time. Lets assume for a second that each of Greninja’s attacks are the equivalent of being hit with the Moon. Then all he needs is a few good shots and that would be it for Galactus.
Now if we don’t assume that the hits are equal to the moon then we have to go back to the drawing board. Lets say that a moon hit is an impressive overall destructive feat, then a concentrated blast should be that much more powerful when it hits. That would mean that Galactus is going down real fast. I’m talking Turbo fast here. Greninja’s concentrated hits would be leaving more than just a mark.
I won’t go into the speed difference here but Galactus has no escape. We’ve already gone over this. SO he has to eat greninja’s attacks and that’s where things get real tricky. Lets say Greninja jumps on Galactus and starts stabbing him at point blank range. Now the durability and craters don’t even matter. Galactus is getting impaled by powerful sharp objects with no way out. That would be the end….the end of everything.
In less dramatic fashion though, Greninja’s attacks have enough impact to create craters so endless amounts of those smashing into Galactus would certainly defeat him sooner than later
“Okay but Roshi has destroyed the Moon before.”
Okay but this totally unrelated character from a different universe did this thing. So that means this other character can do the same thing right? Yeah you know what i’m going to say to that Dreager. Come on man, can you seriously just avoid using characters the aren’t Greninja as stand ins for them? It adds nothing to the discussion.
“So it’s not like the Moon is unbreakable. What’s to stop Greninja from just slicing it in half with a water disc or hydro pump? In theory it would go the same way as Roshi’s blast and if we take that to be fact then those hits would do some real damage to Galactus the whole time. Lets assume for a second that each of Greninja’s attacks are the equivalent of being hit with the Moon. Then all he needs is a few good shots and that would be it for Galactus.”
So with this unrelated character from a different universe doing this thing, you’ve now created a weird crackpot theory that Greninja would be able to use a water disc or hydro pump to accomplish the same thing. Something you have not demonstrated for any of Greninja’s attacks whatsoever. And then you use this theory to make a faulty assumption that Greninja can use Moon level hits consistently. Again something you have not demonstrated in any capacity. Literally every part of this is based on complete hogwash you pulled from nothing other than you desperately pulling in any character accomplishing a moon level feat and then inappropriately applying it to Greninja. So Dreager, only Greninja feats please and thank you.
“Now if we don’t assume that the hits are equal to the moon then we have to go back to the drawing board. Lets say that a moon hit is an impressive overall destructive feat, then a concentrated blast should be that much more powerful when it hits. That would mean that Galactus is going down real fast. I’m talking Turbo fast here. Greninja’s concentrated hits would be leaving more than just a mark.”
I have responded to your concentration attacks argument and related ones in the comments of the following dates:
March 25th 2022
April 2nd 2022
April 3rd 2022
April 17th 2022
April 23rd 2022
May 28th 2022
And then I specifically told you that concentrated attacks would not be an acceptable response back on the 5th of this month. This point has been done to death. Be done with it.
“I won’t go into the speed difference here but Galactus has no escape. We’ve already gone over this. SO he has to eat greninja’s attacks and that’s where things get real tricky. Lets say Greninja jumps on Galactus and starts stabbing him at point blank range. Now the durability and craters don’t even matter. Galactus is getting impaled by powerful sharp objects with no way out. That would be the end….the end of everything.”
You have not demonstrated Greninja is capable of piercing anything on Galactus’ level of durability. Based on what Galactus is shown to tank, it’ll likely just bounce off of him and not pierce at all. Irrelevant argument with no scans to back it up like always eh?
“In less dramatic fashion though, Greninja’s attacks have enough impact to create craters so endless amounts of those smashing into Galactus would certainly defeat him sooner than later”
Entirely based on the crater being moon level attacks which is based on using an unrelated character from a different universe to make a flawed theory and a flawed assumption/conclusion. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
Now I will admit that making each crater strike a moon level attack may have been getting a little ahead of myself. I’d say that it’s still close enough where you can sort of hand wave it away though. Like think of it this way, the force to make a crater is still crazy even if it’s not quite the moon. Like if I punched the ground right now I can’t even make a scratch so the force to make a crater is absolutely devastating. I don’t think anyone is durable enough to be walking away unscathed if enough of those hits are thrown.
Like even in street fights people can tank a few punches but eventually start going down. The hits are too frequent.
https://knightsofthezodiac.fandom.com/wiki/Pegasus_Meteor_Fist
A lot of times Seiya will be fighting opponents who shrug off his hits but eventually they go down because of that. So even if Galactus brushes off the hits, eventually they would really lay him out flat. So if we go back to the earlier Moon Feat, imagine the Moon being cut into 100 slivers and hitting Galactus rapidfire. It should still have the same effect. Like if someone hits you with a stack of 100 quarters or shoots 100 quarters individually. They have the same effect in the end.
Now you wanted to see some more Greninja feats so I got some fresh ones. This is specifically to support the argument of cleaving a Moon in two or splitting Galactus’s armor and piercing him.
Greninja was able to casually use one of his shruiken to blow up all the discs and metal gears protecting a scientist while also destroying his glider pack. Keep in mind that these are all metal and extremely durable so this was no easy feat. Honestly it’s a feat that gets crazier and crazier the more I think about it. Like this shouldn’t even be possible and yet he did it. You have to admit that this is absolutely crazy. That’s without even using the fire element in there.
Then this giant disc caused an explosion that covered the whole stadium which is massive btw.
If Greninja was aiming to split the planet then that would be the perfect angle. It still just doesn’t look like there should be a way for Galactus to possibly counter attack or dodge this one and his natural durability won’t be enough to hang on here. He’s just not powerful enough in his defenses for that and is a sitting duck in terms of being a target for Greninja.
“Now I will admit that making each crater strike a moon level attack may have been getting a little ahead of myself. I’d say that it’s still close enough where you can sort of hand wave it away though. Like think of it this way, the force to make a crater is still crazy even if it’s not quite the moon. Like if I punched the ground right now I can’t even make a scratch so the force to make a crater is absolutely devastating. I don’t think anyone is durable enough to be walking away unscathed if enough of those hits are thrown.
Like even in street fights people can tank a few punches but eventually start going down. The hits are too frequent.”
Yeah and the isn’t just not quite the moon. It’s not even close to a fraction of it and i’ve demonstrated exactly why this is the case mathematically on multiple occasions. You comparing your human inability to Greninja hitting someone so that their body weight makes a puny crater and then comparing it to a moon sized crater is absolutely ridiculous. Don’t bother with crater arguments anymore Dreager, they’re all just going end the same way.
I bring up the moon feat
You talk about craters and how powerful they are.
I explain how the moon feat would utterly outclass this
You move on to something else irrelevant.
I’ve already addressed this Dreager. Move on.
“A lot of times Seiya will be fighting opponents who shrug off his hits but eventually they go down because of that. So even if Galactus brushes off the hits, eventually they would really lay him out flat. So if we go back to the earlier Moon Feat, imagine the Moon being cut into 100 slivers and hitting Galactus rapidfire. It should still have the same effect. Like if someone hits you with a stack of 100 quarters or shoots 100 quarters individually. They have the same effect in the end.”
Referencing a totally different character in a totally different universe is unhelpful for the 100 millionth time Dreager. You can go on and on about imagining quarters and how they affect a target. I really don’t care because Seiya is irrelevant to this conversation.
“Greninja was able to casually use one of his shruiken to blow up all the discs and metal gears protecting a scientist while also destroying his glider pack. Keep in mind that these are all metal and extremely durable so this was no easy feat. Honestly it’s a feat that gets crazier and crazier the more I think about it. Like this shouldn’t even be possible and yet he did it. You have to admit that this is absolutely crazy. That’s without even using the fire element in there.”
Nope not absolutely crazy at all. He could casually do this 100 times and it’s still not going to be on anywhere near the level of the attack power required to destroy a whole moon. Even taking into consideration the fact they’re metal makes no real difference with the sheer size of a moon. It’s not crazy Dreager in the context of Galactus’ durability, it’s just you getting lost in the sauce again.
“Then this giant disc caused an explosion that covered the whole stadium which is massive btw.”
Uh no? It most certainly did not cover the entire stadium. There’s a very clear impact shown from a side angle of the battlefield. The dust then spread out to the outermost part of the battlefield before the seats of the stadium. We also see a bunch of people in stunned silence with none of them having any signs of dust spreading out to them. You’re straight up lying about what the GIF actually shows. It’s not anything that Galactus would be shocked by whatsoever. Don’t lie to me about feats you post that I can see with my own eyes Dreager. It just makes you look unreasonably biased.
“If Greninja was aiming to split the planet then that would be the perfect angle. It still just doesn’t look like there should be a way for Galactus to possibly counter attack or dodge this one and his natural durability won’t be enough to hang on here. He’s just not powerful enough in his defenses for that and is a sitting duck in terms of being a target for Greninja.”
Cool, but there’s no planet splitting actually happening is there? Nothing that could be on the level of the moon feat even right? At most you’re showing stuff that at the upper levels could maybe cause major damage to a city block. And i’m being a bit generous with that. Once again nothing you’ve shown here is remotely impressive, based on faulty assumptions, and you straight up lied about one of the feats you showed.
I’m sticking to what I said last time. Just give up and change the ruling already. You have not and can not show me anything that isn’t irrelevant, easily refuted/debunked, or both.
All right let me throw in a different tact even above the quarters. Galactus has been knocked around many times before. The Thing landed a staggering blow that caused him to stagger.
https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/112/2232647/original/thing-photo-u14?auto=format&q=60&fit=crop&fm=pjpg&dpr=2&w=375
He’s also been totally laid out twice
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-61304fb0fd9ee5a06d495f79028de548-lq
Hercules and Thor have dealt damage to him with casual blows
https://external-preview.redd.it/1cjFQJ1droN89swDtUiJ-DFet7_NbbWhIbuTjWqeHto.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ecd612b860229b3009b6b4aac8f3767f8d3f7719
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b249b0b91c4b5b17e4e1624f04a63f40-lq
So here’s what I’m thinking. Similar to how the Autobots can survive massive energy attacks and crashes but are damaged casually by humans, Galactus is probably similar. He can endure big attacks that he is prepared for but there are tons of smaller attacks that could get through without a problem. Greninja is one of those guys.
I still say the explosion covered the length of the tournament stage though. Look at how far the smoke goes. It’s not like it touched the people in the audience but the absolute range was there and that’s the important thing. Now when it comes to pure power I think you have to give this to Greninja’s repeated strikes over Galactus.
I hear what you’re saying about Galactus being durable but it still feels inconceivable that he could win this. The guy is too large and too slow. Greninja will have a blast speedblitzing him for the duration of the match. Galactus just won’t be able to touch the guy and the attacks will definitely deal a lot of damage. Galactus will be wasting his time trying to land counter blows which in the end will only get him into trouble. He won’t be able to stop himself from wasting stamina and energy in using up a bunch of attacks.
Meanwhile Greninja has his nonstop energy and overwhelming determination to keep on fighting until the very end. He has enough energy to land a lot of blows here and Galactus has no answers here. It’s different from the Toadman match where in the end it did make sense to update the verdict in light of the evidence you showed and Toadman didn’t have much to go off of. Like Toadman probably does win that match but based purely on the feats it couldn’t be proved. Greninja is a different case. His strength is absolutely unreal and he has a ton of speed.
Every time i grab more feats from the guy he looks more and more impressive. It is totally crazy and that’s why he is one of Ash’s most powerful Pokemon of all time. He has attacks in just about every type at the ready.
“All right let me throw in a different tact even above the quarters. Galactus has been knocked around many times before. The Thing landed a staggering blow that caused him to stagger.”
Composite Galactus, moon feat exists, doesn’t matter.
“He’s also been totally laid out twice”
Composite Galactus, moon feat exists, doesn’t matter
“Hercules and Thor have dealt damage to him with casual blows”
Composite Galactus, moon feat exists, doesn’t matter
I’m just going to mention the moon feat every single time you try this. You use composite characters, and this feat makes every one of these other ones not matter whatsoever. Like cool, these other ones exists, but as long as you’re using a composite I can always just lean on the moon feat. The issue with your argument is that you have yet to demonstrate Greninja is capable of getting anywhere near that level of damage. Not to mention you haven’t demonstrated Greninja can manage attacks that are equal to the one’s you’ve shown here. Especially with characters like Thor who i’ve demonstrated the physical power of in the past. And with the Hercules, Thing, and Thor hits they barely did anything. Thing’s was at most a tiny staggering for a second, Thor’s doesn’t seem to do much of anything for any sort of time, and Hercules’ was similar to Thing’s.
“So here’s what I’m thinking. Similar to how the Autobots can survive massive energy attacks and crashes but are damaged casually by humans, Galactus is probably similar. He can endure big attacks that he is prepared for but there are tons of smaller attacks that could get through without a problem. Greninja is one of those guys.”
Galactus is not similar to an Autobot, you have not demonstrated this whatsoever. You have not demonstrated that Greninja is on the same level as characters like Thor, and therefore this entire paragraph is irrelevant.
“I still say the explosion covered the length of the tournament stage though. Look at how far the smoke goes. It’s not like it touched the people in the audience but the absolute range was there and that’s the important thing. Now when it comes to pure power I think you have to give this to Greninja’s repeated strikes over Galactus.”
The smoke isn’t the explosion, it’s the debris moved out by the explosion. The important thing is that this isn’t impressive compared to what Galactus can tank, even if you do it a thousand times as i’ve demonstrated mathematically multiple times. Repeated strikes are irrelevant.
:”I hear what you’re saying about Galactus being durable but it still feels inconceivable that he could win this. The guy is too large and too slow. Greninja will have a blast speedblitzing him for the duration of the match. Galactus just won’t be able to touch the guy and the attacks will definitely deal a lot of damage. Galactus will be wasting his time trying to land counter blows which in the end will only get him into trouble. He won’t be able to stop himself from wasting stamina and energy in using up a bunch of attacks.”
Cool, it feels inconceivable that he could win. This is simply an incredulity fallacy that’s based on your lack of understanding or refusal to understand why your arguments are invalid. Speedblitzing is irrelevant, you have not demonstrated Greninja is capable of any sort of powerful attack that will significantly damage Galactus. And ofc you try to bring up the counter point that he’s apparently going to constantly land count blows and waste stamina.
I have responded to this point before on the dates of:
June 11th 2022
June 25th 2022
We’ve gone through this before, move on Dreager.
“Meanwhile Greninja has his nonstop energy and overwhelming determination to keep on fighting until the very end. He has enough energy to land a lot of blows here and Galactus has no answers here. It’s different from the Toadman match where in the end it did make sense to update the verdict in light of the evidence you showed and Toadman didn’t have much to go off of. Like Toadman probably does win that match but based purely on the feats it couldn’t be proved. Greninja is a different case. His strength is absolutely unreal and he has a ton of speed.”
It is indeed technically different due to a larger amount of feats for Greninja. The problem is that this is functionally the same because the feats you show for why Greninja wins are either unimpressive, straight up not what you claim they are, aren’t even the same character or even universe a lot of the time, or some combination of these. Greninja is not a different case because you have not and can not demonstrate that this is the case. His strength is very unimpressive compared to what Galactus can tank and his speed is irrelevant for the millionth time.
Still going to stand by what I said before. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
“Every time i grab more feats from the guy he looks more and more impressive. It is totally crazy and that’s why he is one of Ash’s most powerful Pokemon of all time. He has attacks in just about every type at the ready.”
That’s great, and he’s powerful in the context of the Pokemon universe. I really don’t care about that. It doesn’t show anything that demonstrates that he can take on Galactus, and you have failed to provide any feats from Greninja that remotely impress me.
It’s true that this is composite so we have to go with the best feats here which is the Moon feat but I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive to the others in that we’re probably just overestimating the Moon here. Galactus has never been That dude who could just take big hits and keep it pushing. At least not to the extent that he could survive Greninja blows for very long. Greninja’s attacks have already been shown to stab into the Earth itself and to cause at least enough dust to cover the stadium.
He can move so fast that he creates clones and he can slice through metals with his blades.
Galactus is a massive target that can barely move so Greninja would be stabbing him all day. Stabbing techniques are different from pure power moves in that you can get a lethal hit easily. Think about the difference of Superman surviving a universal explosion but then getting blasted by the Tripod and being knocked out in Justice League episode 1. Blunt force attacks will always get the job done but when they don’t then stabbing or energy attacks will do the same thing.
It still just feels like Galactus should be on the back foot here right from the jump. He can’t catch Greninja and while his durability is high, he’s never had to fend off someone like Greninja for long like this. Greninja would be speedblitzing with his fast attacks from all sides and then where would that leave Galactus? He wouldn’t be knowing where to go or how to dodge at that point.
I would say that Greninja has to be in the top 10 among the Pokemon verse and possibly top 5 depending on how we look at it. Galactus should rank in the top 30% of Pokemon and probably even top 20% but Greninja is just above that.
I’ll grab some more Greninja feats but this guy’s speed and unrelenting attacks should pierce through even the strongest defenses. Galactus has never had to deal with repeated attacks of this caliber before and so Greninja should still take the clean win.
“It’s true that this is composite so we have to go with the best feats here which is the Moon feat but I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive to the others in that we’re probably just overestimating the Moon here. Galactus has never been That dude who could just take big hits and keep it pushing. At least not to the extent that he could survive Greninja blows for very long. Greninja’s attacks have already been shown to stab into the Earth itself and to cause at least enough dust to cover the stadium.”
The moon feat is direct evidence of him being “that dude who could just take big hits and keep it pushing” You have not demonstrated that any of Greninja’s attacks are remotely close to it. The dust covering PART of the stadium, not the whole stadium is not comparable to the moon feat in any way shape or form. We’ve been over this. It’s not a relevant feat. As for stabbing into the Earth, you phrase this in a very vague way.
But since we’ve talked about craters on many occasions, you know why I don’t consider them compelling pieces of evidence. You know they aren’t anywhere near the moon feat. I’ve described the crater size in relation to the size of the moon. I’ve even steelmanned it by including calculations of a smaller moon just to show that it doesn’t matter. The craters do not matter. The stadium dust feat does not matter.
“He can move so fast that he creates clones and he can slice through metals with his blades.”
Speed is irrelevant
Speed is irrelevant
Speed is irrelevant
I’ve discussed this many times. You know that I don’t care about speed. You know WHY I don’t care about speed. You are capable of reading. Stop talking about Greninja speed feats. Attack power feats are the only thing I want to see talked about here.
I’ve talked about how slicing metal with his attacks are irrelevant before. You showed that pitiful gear slicing feat and I described why that’s not a scale that would actually damage Galactus. Feat is and will be dismissed in the future
“Galactus is a massive target that can barely move so Greninja would be stabbing him all day. Stabbing techniques are different from pure power moves in that you can get a lethal hit easily. Think about the difference of Superman surviving a universal explosion but then getting blasted by the Tripod and being knocked out in Justice League episode 1. Blunt force attacks will always get the job done but when they don’t then stabbing or energy attacks will do the same thing.”
Superman is not Galactus, this is an irrelevant comparison. You have also not demonstrated once that Greninja is getting any special stabbing techniques. Sure his stars are shaped in a way that ends in a point, but not once have you shown this provides any sort of damage that a normal blade would.
“It still just feels like Galactus should be on the back foot here right from the jump. He can’t catch Greninja and while his durability is high, he’s never had to fend off someone like Greninja for long like this. Greninja would be speedblitzing with his fast attacks from all sides and then where would that leave Galactus? He wouldn’t be knowing where to go or how to dodge at that point.”
What you feel is irrelevant. What matters is what you can show. And what you’ve shown is a quick speedy pokemon with negligible attack power compared to Galactus’ durability.Going anywhere or dodging is wholly irrelevant. How many times do I have to tell you this before you stop trying to use it as a talking point?
Dodging is irrelevant
Dodging is irrelevant
Dodging is irrelevant
Galactus is unlikely to even TRY to dodge in most cases. Dude just stands there and tanks damage most of the time, that’s his whole schtick. Period, case closed, end of story.
“I would say that Greninja has to be in the top 10 among the Pokemon verse and possibly top 5 depending on how we look at it. Galactus should rank in the top 30% of Pokemon and probably even top 20% but Greninja is just above that.”
This is literally just you bullshiting about where to place Greninja in the Pokemon to wank a character you like to make him win. This is based on no provided feats, no scans, just you making up arbitrary top 10s and top 5s and some percents based off of your unchecked, utterly biased takes on this fight. Pathetically irrelevant to this battle.
“I’ll grab some more Greninja feats but this guy’s speed and unrelenting attacks should pierce through even the strongest defenses. Galactus has never had to deal with repeated attacks of this caliber before and so Greninja should still take the clean win.”
Yeah he deals with powerful elemental attacks like it’s nothing. Remember the bunch of heroes that blasted him with energy attacks at once?
You really haven’t shown anything much more impressive than this. It’s been mostly around this level with some water and fire attacks. So yes he has indeed dealt with attacks of this level, and it really doesn’t matter whether they’re repeated or not.
And furthermore he’s very likely to simply absorb whatever Greninja can throw at him. I have multiple examples of him doing this in a non energy attack absorption and an energy attack context.
Absorbs two suns simply by them being in his presence:
Absorbs Human Torch’s flames like it’s nothing:
Absorbs Silver Surfer’s energy attacks like it’s nothing:
Stops the Gravtational pull of Black Holes:
So even before the raw durability gets into this, Greninja’s attacks are reduced in power by the fact that a lot of his attacks will simply be absorbed. Which makes him waste even more stamina that he needs for the thousands of attacks to be equivalent to the moon feat that Galactus tanked. There is absolutely no way Greninja does any significant damage to Galactus before becoming exhausted and absolutely nothing you’ve shown and likely nothing you WILL show will change my mind.
Still going to stand by what I said before. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
I get what you’re saying here but I feel like speed is always relevant. It’s the only way to solidly win a fight even when there is a massive physical gap because if the opponent can’t catch you then he can’t defeat you. That’s the end of the road as they say. Keep going strong and if you have speed then you should always win in the end.
For Greninja, I think we have to take some steps back here. Lets look at that fire shuriken again. It may not be a universe destroyer but it’s still pretty powerful. Imagine a few of those hitting Galactus and starting to melt the armor. It’s not like Human Torch’s flames which are basically air. This is a sharp attack meant to slice so it should do some significant damage.
Now I admit that the percentages and stuff were fairly off the cuff. I don’t have the exact numbers on me but they made sense at the time. Superman should be a decent analogy to Galactus though because they’re both power type fighters and generally in the top 1% of their respective verses. If a tripod can beat Superman or even the random aliens from Justice League origins then the attacks should damage Galactus as well.
Greninja also has experience on his side. He’s had to deal with many different attack strategies over the years and always came out on top. It’s why he is such a dangerous fighter. Take your eyes off him for a moment and then he will have a new plan up his sleeve. Galactus is a little more limited in his approach because basically he won’t dodge or block, he can only continue to fight straight up and eat all of the attacks that Greninja throws his way. So if the titan throws enough hits into the mix then that will be game over. There will be no escape from that.
That’s why I still can’t picture Galactus winning here. He’s seriously outgunned in terms of attack options and speed movements by Greninja. Any action he takes will be immediately dodged and countered. He’ll be on the back foot before long and just doesn’t have the stamina to keep up with a young Pokemon like this. Greninja has determination and moves for days
“I get what you’re saying here but I feel like speed is always relevant. It’s the only way to solidly win a fight even when there is a massive physical gap because if the opponent can’t catch you then he can’t defeat you. That’s the end of the road as they say. Keep going strong and if you have speed then you should always win in the end.”
I’ve explained why it’s not relevant multiple times, moving on.
“For Greninja, I think we have to take some steps back here. Lets look at that fire shuriken again. It may not be a universe destroyer but it’s still pretty powerful. Imagine a few of those hitting Galactus and starting to melt the armor. It’s not like Human Torch’s flames which are basically air. This is a sharp attack meant to slice so it should do some significant damage.”
The fire shuriken cutting is irrelevant. You have not shown it cutting anything that would remotely allow it to be on the level of anything Galactus can tank.
“Now I admit that the percentages and stuff were fairly off the cuff. I don’t have the exact numbers on me but they made sense at the time. Superman should be a decent analogy to Galactus though because they’re both power type fighters and generally in the top 1% of their respective verses. If a tripod can beat Superman or even the random aliens from Justice League origins then the attacks should damage Galactus as well.”
Superman is not Galactus. They’re not from the same universe. They have different continuities and opponents. This comparison is irrelevant.
“Greninja also has experience on his side. He’s had to deal with many different attack strategies over the years and always came out on top. It’s why he is such a dangerous fighter. Take your eyes off him for a moment and then he will have a new plan up his sleeve. Galactus is a little more limited in his approach because basically he won’t dodge or block, he can only continue to fight straight up and eat all of the attacks that Greninja throws his way. So if the titan throws enough hits into the mix then that will be game over. There will be no escape from that.”
Utterly irrelevant paragraph that has no substance beyond simply hyping Greninja up without any attack power feats to back it up.
“That’s why I still can’t picture Galactus winning here. He’s seriously outgunned in terms of attack options and speed movements by Greninja. Any action he takes will be immediately dodged and countered. He’ll be on the back foot before long and just doesn’t have the stamina to keep up with a young Pokemon like this. Greninja has determination and moves for days”
Another irrelevant paragraph with no feats/scans backing it up whatsoever. You’re honestly just flailing for excuses to overhype Greninja without backing anything up at this point. Honestly this comment is probably your worst in terms of substance yet. It’s just a bunch of hype with no substance.
Still going to stand by what I said before. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
I think we’re forgetting just how devastating the fire shuriken was so let me post that gif again.
I posted a longer lower quality version of it here. We can see that just by throwing the attack it was causing the very ground to have an Earthquake and it wasn’t immediately doused by the water attack. In fact it kept on going going going, gone! until there was a giant explosion. If that thing cuts right through Galactus then I don’t see what he can do. Cutting attacks are lethal even when there is a durability/attack power gap between the fighters.
Even Frieza the destroyer of worlds was cut in half and his durability should scale even higher than Galactus. Straight up attacks like that are just hard to beat.
I’m trying not to get lost in the sauce like last time but whenever I watch the clips for Greninja again I get hyped. I just haven’t seen Galactus ever moving the way Greninja does or landing those same kind of hits. Yes Galactus has the whole surviving the Moon thing which is doing a lot of heavy lifting for him right now but that’s still a blunt attack. Switch that to a piercing move and I don’t see Galactus getting out of that in one piece. Mans is going down real quick and that would be game over for him, no rematch. Greninja can use that fire attack and then get in close for a quick combo move.
Galactus still has no way of landing any kind of counter attack so I don’t see any scenario where he manages to come out on top here. He will be out of energy real quick
“I posted a longer lower quality version of it here. We can see that just by throwing the attack it was causing the very ground to have an Earthquake and it wasn’t immediately doused by the water attack. In fact it kept on going going going, gone! until there was a giant explosion. If that thing cuts right through Galactus then I don’t see what he can do. Cutting attacks are lethal even when there is a durability/attack power gap between the fighters.”
Responded to this feat, explained why it isn’t powerful enough. Not going into detail again, move on from this point.
“Even Frieza the destroyer of worlds was cut in half and his durability should scale even higher than Galactus. Straight up attacks like that are just hard to beat.”
Different universe, different power systems, different durability etc etc. Irrelevant to this battle and you know it.
“I’m trying not to get lost in the sauce like last time but whenever I watch the clips for Greninja again I get hyped. I just haven’t seen Galactus ever moving the way Greninja does or landing those same kind of hits. Yes Galactus has the whole surviving the Moon thing which is doing a lot of heavy lifting for him right now but that’s still a blunt attack. Switch that to a piercing move and I don’t see Galactus getting out of that in one piece. Mans is going down real quick and that would be game over for him, no rematch. Greninja can use that fire attack and then get in close for a quick combo move.”
I’ve explained the math of this many times over. Even in the situation where piercing attacks are more powerful it still is not enough. Even if you lowball the moon feat significantly it still isn’t enough. Fire attack is not enough. Combo moves aren’t enough. You haven’t shown anything that demonstrates this whatsoever. Whether it’s blunt, slicing, piercing, whatever word you want to use it’s utterly irrelevant because you haven’t shown anything that truly substantiates your argument whatsoever.
“Galactus still has no way of landing any kind of counter attack so I don’t see any scenario where he manages to come out on top here. He will be out of energy real quick”
Galactus doesn’t need to land hits, Greninja will need to do so many attacks that it’ll be exhausted well before it does any significant damage and nothing you’ve said and probably nothing you will say can convince any different. This is honestly only slightly better than your last comment because at least you attempt to show some scans. Granted the former scan is pitifully weak compared to Galactus’s durability and the latter is completely irrelevant to this battle but still better than literally nothing.
Still going to stand by what I said before. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
Slicing attacks have been more lethal since the dawn of time though. Why do you think humanity traded in their gauntlets and bats for swords? It’s because at the end of the day those are the best kinds of attacks to have. You know it and I know it! That’s all I’m sayinggggg but seriously the attack power there is hard to overstep. The Frieza example is a bit out there but I thought that it really shows just how impressive these things are. It’s most impressive tbh.
Lets look at this from another angle then. How strong is the Moon really?
Roshi and Piccolo have blown it up before and in RWBY a whole chunk of the Moon was disintegrated a long time ago. “So what are you telling me??” is what you might be thinking right? Well lets just put this into perspective right now. What’s to stop Greninja from blowing up the Moon? We’ve already seen that his spikes can pierce through the Earth itself so I don’t think that it’s a particularly big stretch for him to do this. I just don’t think it’s a stretch at all and if anything it just goes back to how supremely impressive and powerful he is. We’re talking monster levels of power and cutting a Moon in half may seem daunting but if the blade is sharp enough then I don’t really see the problem. Greninja will be going through on full power and adrenaline.
Apparently to destroy the Moon you need 1.25×10^29 joules of energy to blast the moon into dust. So Greninja should be able to do that when he’s in his Ash form and has all of the stats boosted. Honestly in that form he is an absolute beast of power and is not likely to go down easy. Trust me on this one. Greninja has been around the block more than a few times. Throw in his laser blast and constant stat boosts and this might even be an easy win for him once he has the power then we know he already has the speed.
“Slicing attacks have been more lethal since the dawn of time though. Why do you think humanity traded in their gauntlets and bats for swords? It’s because at the end of the day those are the best kinds of attacks to have. You know it and I know it! That’s all I’m sayinggggg but seriously the attack power there is hard to overstep. The Frieza example is a bit out there but I thought that it really shows just how impressive these things are. It’s most impressive tbh.”
You just not understanding that swords aren’t the end all be all of weaponry is very on brand for you. Saying slicing attacks are inherently more lethal is genuinely idiotic given the wide variety of weapons and armor that have existed throughout history. Ever heard of chain mail or plate armor? It makes a joke of slashing weapons and it’s much better countered by a blunt weapon like a mace.The Frieza thing isn’t even as bad as that. I understand this isn’t a blog that deals with historical fighters, but damn Dreager that’s bad even for you. Stick to talking about fictional stuff.
“Roshi and Piccolo have blown it up before and in RWBY a whole chunk of the Moon was disintegrated a long time ago. “So what are you telling me??” is what you might be thinking right? Well lets just put this into perspective right now. What’s to stop Greninja from blowing up the Moon? We’ve already seen that his spikes can pierce through the Earth itself so I don’t think that it’s a particularly big stretch for him to do this. I just don’t think it’s a stretch at all and if anything it just goes back to how supremely impressive and powerful he is. We’re talking monster levels of power and cutting a Moon in half may seem daunting but if the blade is sharp enough then I don’t really see the problem. Greninja will be going through on full power and adrenaline.”
Roshi, Piccolo and anything to do with RWBY is utterly irrelevant. You know why.
And this claim about cutting a moon in half will remain a big stretch until you shown Greninja literally destroying something the size of the moon or anything close to that. I don’t mean taking a feat of Greninja destroying a bit of the ground and assuming he can do that to a whole moon. I mean a feat that actually demonstrates that he can do that. Until a scan like that surfaces, this argument is utterly unfounded and based on a non sequitur.
“Apparently to destroy the Moon you need 1.25×10^29 joules of energy to blast the moon into dust. So Greninja should be able to do that when he’s in his Ash form and has all of the stats boosted. Honestly in that form he is an absolute beast of power and is not likely to go down easy. Trust me on this one. Greninja has been around the block more than a few times. Throw in his laser blast and constant stat boosts and this might even be an easy win for him once he has the power then we know he already has the speed.”
And you’ve shown absolutely no scans that are remotely near blasting the moon into dust. Not in normal form, and not in Ash form. And using another “trust me bro” argument to bs about stat boosts and laser blasts that haven’t been shown to remotely compare to 1.25×10^29 joules of energy is not helping your case. Such power would utterly obliterate everything around Greninja. Even if he’s not trying that hard it would still do this. And since when we see Greninja trying his hardest this does not happen, it necessarily means that he’s incapable of outputting this amount of joules or anything close to even a fraction of it. Until you shown him literally being about to blast moons into dust, I’m not taking you seriously on this point whatsoever.
Still going to stand by what I said before. Just give up and change the ruling in Galactus’ favor already. You’ve got nothing to show me that isn’t either completely irrelevant, already debunked and/or refuted or both.
How would chain mail or any other kind of armor stop a sword? You just cut right through in a slash, as long as your sword is strong then you should be able to stab through anything. It’s why even the strongest fighters can’t always stop a sword:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jujutsu-kaisen/images/4/43/Toji_stabs_Satoru_from_behind.png/revision/latest?cb=20201203024441
Even if they are able to stop all other attacks. Slicing/Piercing power will always be the best kind of weapon
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNBDdEbWOJI/hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwE7CK4FEIIDSFryq4qpAy0IARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJD8AEB-AH-CYAC0AWKAgwIABABGC0gXihlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLAQ4wKvUW30yAFl-ENV_tlLvKp-LQ
I think it’s reasonable for Galactus to go down because of Greninja having access to this kind of attack.
Now with regard to the RWBY stuff that is rather out of pocket so we can let it lie for now.
The big thing will be about the power to destroy the Moon and to do that we have to go back to Greninja’s overwhelming power. He is able to move with super speed enough to the point where he creates after images and we already know that his attacks can pierce through the ground.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/howstrongis/images/d/de/Toneri_splits_the_moon_feat.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180621213042
These images are from a character called Toneri from Naruto splitting the Moon in half. Why do I bring this up? Before you mention how it’s from another series I’m just using this to show what I’m picturing visually. We already know that Greninja can pierce the Earth and we know that he has speed so what is to stop him from just running across the world while having his shruiken embedded in the ground? With a full rotation then the planet would be carved in two.
So taking that to Galactus, he could run around the giant with his disc piercing his armor and just run all over his body until Galactus has been split into a million pieces. He won’t be fast enough to block or dodge this attack and the piercing attack will get through his defenses
“How would chain mail or any other kind of armor stop a sword? You just cut right through in a slash, as long as your sword is strong then you should be able to stab through anything. It’s why even the strongest fighters can’t always stop a sword:”
Again, don’t bother with real life weapons and armor, you don’t understand a lick of it, move on.
As for the scan, I had to look it up myself since it wouldn’t show up when I clicked it, but it’s completely irrelevant to this battle since yet again it’s from a totally different universe.
“Even if they are able to stop all other attacks. Slicing/Piercing power will always be the best kind of weapon”
Dragon Ball feat, aka different universe. Irrelevant.
“The big thing will be about the power to destroy the Moon and to do that we have to go back to Greninja’s overwhelming power. He is able to move with super speed enough to the point where he creates after images and we already know that his attacks can pierce through the ground.”
You’ve brought up that he’s pierced the ground several times. I’ve told you why it isn’t equivalent to the moon feat several times. Drop this argument, it’s irrelevant.
“These images are from a character called Toneri from Naruto splitting the Moon in half. Why do I bring this up? Before you mention how it’s from another series I’m just using this to show what I’m picturing visually. We already know that Greninja can pierce the Earth and we know that he has speed so what is to stop him from just running across the world while having his shruiken embedded in the ground? With a full rotation then the planet would be carved in two.”
Ok cool first of all, show me Greninja running across the world with his shuriken embedded in the ground carving the planet in two then. None of this “what is to stop him” bullshit. Show the feat from Greninja, no other pokemon, no other universe, Greninja and only Greninja pulling this off. I don’t care if you’re using it to picture what you’re talking about visually. It still falls under a different universe and is therefore utterly irrelevant.Use Greninja scans only. All others will be rejected immediately regardless of your reasoning for using it.
Then second, after you do that throw that hypothetical scan in the trash. Because even if you can show this feat from Greninja, it would still be a very small part of the moon being destroyed. Toneri here isn’t destroying the moon, which you claimed Greninja could do last time. This isn’t anywhere near that 1.25×10^29 joules you were talking about Greninja pulling off before. So it really doesn’t even matter if you can demonstrate this. It’s still not nearly enough compared to what you were claiming Greninja could do in your last comment.
“So taking that to Galactus, he could run around the giant with his disc piercing his armor and just run all over his body until Galactus has been split into a million pieces. He won’t be fast enough to block or dodge this attack and the piercing attack will get through his defenses”
Totally irrelevant until you demonstrate Greninja specifically pulling this type of feat off.