Tournament Smashers Episode 45 Shadow vs Knuckles

The 45th ep is now here!

Knuckles was chasing after a crook who had stolen a piece of the Master Emerald. “Nobody messes with the emerald on my watch!” Knuckles yelled as he punched the ground with such force that it split open and created a fissure. The guy fell down the hole, but he shot out an explosive disc. The disc crashed into Knuckles, but had no effect.

“Now I’m mad!” Knuckles yelled as he punched the crook’s lights out and grabbed the master emerald shard. “I’d better get back to the Master Emerald before more thugs get any ideas,” Knuckles said as he put the shard in his pocket and started to zoom towards the shrine. It would only take him a matter of minutes to reach the location at his speed.

Suddenly a black ball rammed into him at high speeds. The force of the blog knocked Knuckles through a tree and the master emerald shard fell out of his pocket. “I’ve finally caught you,” the black ball said as it turned into a hedgehog. “Shadow…SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG!” Knuckles yelled as he got up.

Shadow glared at Knuckles. Knuckles seemed surprised to see Shadow..maybe he hadn’t rigged the match against Sonic. Of course he could just have a good poker face. “Hey Shadow, step away from the shard,” Knuckles said as he clenched his fists. Shadow realized that he was currently stepping on it.

“No chance,” Shadow said as he kicked the shard up and snagged it with his hand. “What’s gotten into you!” Knuckles yelled as he charged towards Shadow. “I just had victory taken away from me thanks to a meddler…and it may have been you,” Shadow said as he sidestepped the charge.

“Oh no you don’t!” Knuckles yelled as he threw a punch at Shadow. Shadow ducked the punch and kicked Knuckles in the stomach. Knuckles grimaced, but the hit hadn’t done any lethal damage. Knuckles quickly pulled his fist back and aimed it at the ground. He was going to cause another fissure, but suddenly he couldn’t move.

“Chaos Control!” Shadow yelled as he took out his Chaos Emerald. “Those time abilities will be trouble,” Knuckles thought as Shadow kicked him into a mountain. Knuckles quickly jumped in the air, but Shadow was already there and blasted him with a Chaos Spear.

“He’s too fast!” Knuckles thought as he was bombarded by dozens and dozens of blows. He tried countering, but Shadow simply dodged the counters. Finally Shadow ended the combo with an uppercut that sent Knuckles flying. “Now I can think of a plan to defeat him,” Knuckles thought as he landed atop a large area in the sky.

“I’m with the Master Emerald!” Knuckles realized as he turned around. Shadow appeared behind him. “Prepare to meet your defeat Shadow!” Knuckles yelled as he punched the Master Emerald with full power. The Master Emerald started to glow and then it exploded. “The power is overwhelming!” Knuckles yelled as he transformed into Super Knuckles.

“Now you cannot hope to defeat me,” Knuckles said as he appeared behind Shadow. He threw an explosive punch, but Shadow was no longer there. “Foolishness! I am the world’s ultimate life form,” Shadow said as he took off his limiters. “That won’t save you,” Knuckles replied as he clenched his fists again.

“You have a lot of power, but you lack speed,” Shadow said as he appeared behind Knuckles. Knuckles punched at him, but it was only an after image. “It’s time to end this,” Shadow’s voice rang out from every side. Knuckles saw dozens of Shadows running around him.

“Power Flash!” Knuckles yelled as time slowed down. Now he could see Shadow running rings around him at super speeds. “I’ve got you now!” Knuckles yelled as he reached out to grab Shadow. Shadow suddenly erupted in an aura burst of blue energy and zipped away.

“He’s in Hero Mode!” Knuckles yelled as Shadow crashed down on top of him with immense speed. the energy from the Master Emerald faded and Knuckles was down for the count. “I can’t lose!” Shadow yelled as he disappeared. Knuckles woke up later and looked up at the Master Emerald.

Now there was only one shard left on top of the altar. “Good thing Shadow left it there, or else!” Knuckles thought as he got up and dusted himself off. “I’m going to collect all of the shards for the Master Emerald!” Knuckles yelled as he set off on his journey.

116 thoughts on “Tournament Smashers Episode 45 Shadow vs Knuckles

  1. Dude, what!!!??? Ok, i can see shad puching knux around a little (but not to the degree you described), heck i can even imagine shadow using c.c. (which would be countered by power flash), but what with super knux being matched by shadow in hero form!? I mean come on!!!! Powee over positive chaos energy + little power boost does not = a being capable of lightspeed movement and control of both positive AND negative chaos energy! Not to mention hyper knuckles, who is above lightspeed! What about volcanic dunk and knuckle slam for defense, what about his chant to stop the chaos emerald or his maximum heat attack to blitz the hedgehog? And most importantly what about his trump cards emerald power (superior to ring removal) and hyper knux (nuff said)? You showcased all of shads moves (ie chaos spear, chaos control, inhibitor rings off, and hero knux) but only two of knux’s super knux (which was not a good showing as super knux is speed of light, and you had him get blitzed by shad with his rings off, who is only supersonic normally!!!!) And powerflash(how shadow used hero shadow during it is beyond me). Shadow is not that fast and that is not a good showing of knux, not cool bro. Knux should have won or at the VERY least, he should have done better than that! Come on…

    • Alright, well here’s the deal. While the fights are composite, the stories based off of them aren’t. Of course I wouldn’t switch the victor, but that’s why I didn’t show a lot of forms like Hyper Knuckles (Though I still think Super Knuckles is stronger) and Super Shadow. I do think Shadow would speedblitz Knuckles like in the story. Shadow’s speed is on a whole other level. I think normal Shadow’s speed could give Super Knuckles a run for his money, so with the inhibitors off, then Shadow has the edge. I used the Volcanic Dunk in the opening when Knuckles took that guy down. No fire, but he made the crater. Against Shadow he attempted to use it, but Shadow used his speed to stop him. I don’t think he would have time to use the heat attack or the chant. He wouldn’t really have time for any attack unless Shadow allowed it. And even then, Shadow could still dodge it. I had Knuckles use the Master Emerald’s power so at least I showcased some of his abilities. Knuckles doesn’t have as many abilities as Shadow (not counting composite) so that’s why Shadow showed more of his. Powerflash can slowdown time, but against someone like Shadow it wasn’t enough. That’s why Shadow was still able to go into his hero mode. I tried to at least make him talk tough and keep his dignity the whole time. The fight may not have been that close, but I tried to make him a formidable guy

      • Let me help you, knux is the enhanced veraion of super knux, so super knux is not stronger. shadow is on another level sure, but that description made them seem worlds apart! Shadow = super knux speed, dude you are crazy, super knux is lightspeed, shad is supersonic. Shadow is only supersonic, it’s on the wiki, please, PLEASE get that through your head. And he used it, but not against shad, shadow isn’t fast enough to pull that off, and you showcased some, but not how they should be. Superknux> shadow in everything, by alot so i know shad without inhib. Wouldn’t help against a super form. I could tell you made knux try to seem dignified (his little comment about telling shad what he should do after shad left and telling off some punk thugs) but what’s the point when he loses injustly and his abilities are not used to their full potential. Shadow is not fast

      • Shadow’s lightspeed. Let’s face it, he kept up with Sonic in the final battle and Sonic’s lightspeed. Shadow is immensely fast so that’s why he kept speedblitzing. Their abilities aren’t worlds apart, but their speed is worlds apart. Speed is a major factor in a fight which makes things interesting. Super Knuckles is really powerful, but in the end he still couldn’t take down someone as formidable as Shadow…The Ultimate Life Form

  2. Enough to do that, he’s only supersonic, he’s faster but not to that extent. Again that’s for keeping some of knux’s pride, but what’s the point when the rest is destroyed and cast aside. Use his abilities to the fullest, and stop overplaying shadow, he’s not bass :-D.

    • Well, I figured that I could at least save Knuckles’s dignity, even if he lost the fight. I tried to give respect to his abilities and no worries, once one of his other matches makes it to the top 10 (One where he wins of course) then he’ll look even better. As for Bass…he is invincible πŸ˜›

      • Dude, he is sooo not lightspeed, the wiki specifically stated that he is aroud supersonic speeds (not not lightspeed super sonic, supersonic as i twice the speed of sound). In that race sonic wasn’t giving his all and he was never to stated to go lightspeed there anyway, so that’s a poor assumption, nothing more shadow has admitted he’s not faster, why can’t you accept it? How can their speeds be worlds apart, when he’s only supersonic :-D? Speed is a major part of this, so please realize shadow’s limit. Not even the ultimate life form can surpass his limits. And thanks again for what you did (i can tell you considered it when making this story), i really appreciate it :-), now can you fix you misconception so knux can get the win he deserves, i have provided more than enough evidence.

      • Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. Supersonic speeds is for guys like Superman πŸ˜› Sonic was definitely giving it his all and why would they go out of their way to say that he was lightspeed? They just didn’t bother to mention the fact. The Ultimate Life Form has no limits! I still think their is a world of difference in terms of speed. Knuckles is fast in his own right, but you can’t exactly compare him to someone as powerful and ruthless as Shadow. There just isn’t a fair comparison in that regard.

      • Shadow is supersonic, it’s on the wiki, it’s legit. And they didn’t go out their way,they just state d it (and they didn’t even state it at that time or even in that game). They didn’t bother to mention it because it’s not true, so its not worlds apart at all bro. Want powerful and ruthless, try scourge, now that would be worlds apart B-). Shadow is not fast enough bro, it’s stated and no editor denies it, he loses.

      • Nah, Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. They didn’t mention that he could reach those speeds because they just didn’t feel like it. Scourge is definitely a powerful opponent, but as strong as Shadow…I’m not so sure 😎 Shadow wins via speedblitz

      • He’s not lightspeed, it’s a cooperation, they can’t just not put it, everyone under sonic team must have been veey tierd for years :-D. Shadow is only supersonic, it’s no mistake. Knux via hyper knux.

      • A lot of companies don’t put their feats. Take Goku, the author never said that he was lightspeed and because of that, things got very complicated. Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. Shadow wins via speedblitz and chaos abilities

      • Oh, they don’t put speeds huh? Well sega must be an exception because they say the Speed their characters can attain (ie sonic, shadow, tails, knux, and even amy) just check the wiki once in a while. They state he’s not faster than supersonic, whi h he isn’t so knux via chaos empowerment.

      • Actually…they never state that. On the wiki they say that his speed approaches that of Hypersonic speeds and also that he can equal Sonic’s speed. Some games claim that he’s slightly slower than Sonic, while others put him as Sonic’s equal. Since it’s composite…this helps Shadow. Shadow wins via massive speedblitz

      • Sorry for the wait i was with my dad, and actually yes it does state it. “Shadow can hover-skate at supersonic speeds, even NEARING that of hypersonic speeds, and is fast enough to NEARLY equal the speeds that sonic can run at”. It’s even stated under his skills up at the too :-D, i think you see what you want to see, check again. Most games claim he’s slower, and composite doesn’t help much, knux wins via chaos empowerment and his trump card.

      • Nearing that of Hypersonic speeds is the key part. So, he’s not limited to just supersonic. There’s a big gap between supersonic and hypersonic, so if he’s approaching the latter..that’s a whole other level of speed. Plus since he can equal Sonic’s speeds (Because in some games they are equals) that’s lightspeed right there. I checked his section through and through. This definitely helps his lightspeed claims. Shadow wins via speedblitz and his hoverskates

      • He nears it, so he’s not there yet, impressive, but not lightspeed. He does not equal sonic’s speed, it’s stated in the wiki, so no. You apparently didn’t check as you keep saying he’s lightspeed when everything says he’s not, (ex what i gave you). Knux wins.

      • No, the wiki states that he does not equal Sonic’s speeds In Some games. Others have them at equal speeds which would make him lightspeed. Shadow takes this round

      • Where? From what i see it says “while most games place sonic and shadow as equals in speed, character profiles in sonic 2006 and sonic rival claim that sonic is faster”. So yes some admit he’s faster some say the same, but when the profile (which contains ALL of the game’s data) states it, it’s true. Not to mention he actually BEAT shadow two times ( sonic and the dark brotherhood and sonic generations) and shadow admitted he wasn’t at sonic’s level of speed, so no he’s not lightspeed, he’s only supersonic. Knux via maximum heat attack.

      • In most games they’re equal in speed. Period, full stop. At that moment, Shadow has obtained lightspeeds. He’s definitely not anywhere near supersonic speeds. Even the wiki admits that he nears Hypersonic. Sonic beat Shadow in generations with gameplay mechanics. Also they weren’t going all out. Even if Shadow is (very) slightly slower than Sonic, he can still be lightspeed since the difference is pretty mild. Shadow wins via speedblitz and chaos abilities

      • Wrong, it doesn’t end there. When shad raced sonic it wasn’t stated that he was racing at light speed, after all he has said himself he’s slower, been beaten, and its STATED on the wiki, he’s not lightspeed. Nearing hyperspeed= no where near lightspeed. Most games put him there, but they never say he’s as fast as sonic all out, most say he rival’s sonic’s speed. Sonic’s speed ranges from supersonic to lightspeed, and since shadow reaches supersonic category, it’s only logical to say that shadow is only supersonic. He’s stated he’s not as fast, so drop it.

      • It wasn’t said that Sonic wasn’t going all out as well. Sonic’s speed ranges pretty drastically and likewise with Shadow. Shadow’s definitely lightspeed

      • Based on what we know he was holding back. Shadow’s speed doesn’t vary at all, he’s only supersonic, so no.

      • Sonic definitely didn’t seem to be holding back. That’s not really his style. Shadow is extremely fast and approached hypersonic speeds. Of course that’s as high as the wiki goes, but they may have been forgetting about Sonic Adventure 2 Battle

  3. Sonic was holding back, that what his style is based off of. Thank you for saying it as high as he goes (they didn’t foeget sab2), means alor bro.

      • Right? I had to lay low for my pops but im back so youll be hearing from me alot more now :-). And sonic always holds back, if he didn’t everyone would lose in an instant, shadow is among them. Shadow isn’t lightspeed, far from it. He’s only close to hypersonic.

      • Sounds like a plan! Sonic holds back when he’s tougher than his opponent, but since Shadow is his equal in all attributes, that means that Shadow is ftl. It makes sense when you think about it. The reason that he’s usually listed at Hyperspeed is because Shadow is holding back.

      • Right sonic does hold back weaker opponents, which includes shadow. Shadow has the same abilities (such as manipulation of chaos energy) and skills (such as spin dash, homing attack, and the such), but that doesn’t mean they are equal in Speed. That my friend is a diff issue in general. No if he was holding back they wouldn’t have said ALMOST HYOERSONIC, that let’s me know that’s his limit, it’s not sonics.

      • Shadow and Sonic are basically equal in speed and their other skills. Sonic might be slightly faster, but they’re both around the same speed. Since Sonic is FTL, then we know that they’re both lightspeed. Remember, most of the games have Sonic at supersonic-hypersonic.

      • They are not equal in Speed, they are equal in skil, there is a difference. Skill is not something that can just be aquired out of thin air, it has to be there already, shadow doesn’t have that. He can spin dash and homing attack (skills the wiki refers to as well), but he doesn’t have the same speed, not even close key word is sonic.

      • Shadow was born with the speed. He was created to be the Ultimate Life Form and his speed definitely matches Sonic’s. It’s why Shadow was created in the first place. So that he could be an alternate/dark version of Sonic. It just makes sense when you think about it. Why would Sonic be faster? Also, even if Sonic were a lot faster, they are still both faster than light

      • He was created to be the ultimate life form, doesn’t mean he is and the wiki says he’s not his equal in speed, he even says it. And he wasn’t created to rival sonic, sonic wasn’t even born then, he was before sonic. Yes he’s levels about shad on speed but no shadow is not lightspeed, no where near it.

      • He was created as a character to rival Sonic. That’s what the devs were going for when they thought of him. Shadow was made to be the Ultimate Life Form and I believe that the succeeded. You saw the way that he completely took down the BioLizard right? Epic stuff! He’s definitely lightspeed, massively lightspeed

      • I agree they did wamt a character who was similar to sonic, However you are describing him as if he was sonic’s evil twin. Sonic already has one if those (scourge) and though shad may share some of the same SKILLS such as homing attack and spin dash, he is not his eqyal in speed and is quite outclassed. His battele with biolizard was epic (one of my favs), but he’s not light, he’s massively supersonic.

      • Scourge wasn’t in the games. They wanted a dark copy of Sonic for the video games and Shadow was what they thought of. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things. Sonic and Shadow have equal skills and Stats. Speed is just one of the things were they are About equal. Shadow does have some heightened strength as well, which may even exceed Knuckles’. That’s definitely a pretty solid feat for Shadow and it shows why he’s the Ultimate. Light Speed + Ultimate Strength = Win

      • I don’t doubt it popped in their minds, but the main thing was a organic being similar to him.l who could do similar skills without being his equal=copy. Shadow isnt as fast and are you serious!!!!??? Exceeding knux!? You have got to be out of your mind. What a crazy notion, not lightspeed + weaker than knux equals fail for shadow.

      • They wanted him to be Sonic’s equal with the same skills. Why would they want Shadow to be slower? To create the tension that they wanted, Shadow would have to at least be able to keep up with Sonic on equal footing. Knuckles is tough to be sure, but I’m not sure if he can outpower Shadow while they’re both in their base forms. Shadow’s massively lightspeed and his strength is to be feared. He was able to life a car with little effort I believe. Shadow ftw

      • Keeping up with sonic and being his equal are two diff things bro, they chose the former. They didn’t make him much slower and put shadow in sonics semi serious range, but he’s not fast as an all out sonic. Knux can lift more than 100 tons and the wiki states he is no where near knux’s strength, not even close (lifting a car isn’t impressive). You overhyped both his strength and speed, knix takes this.

      • Shadow is definitely in the lightspeed category. Their difference in speed is very minimal and that’s why Shadow is massively ftl. Knuckles is very strong, but I somehow don’t see him stopping Shadow in a battle of pure strength. Of course, it never comes to that since Shadow always wins via massive speedblitz

      • He doesnt have a minimum gap in speed, as he is only supersonic. And knux owns him in a battle of pure strength, that is known to every sonic fan ever. Shadow isn’t fast enough to speedblitz and knux defense is too awesome. Knux takes this.

      • Shadow’s at least Massively Lightspeed. Knuckles is strong, but Shadow has skill and he’s very strong as well. Shadow speedblitzes for the win and Knuckles just won’t be able to react to the blows. His endurance won’t be enough to win this battle of epic proportions

      • Knux has skill too (he is a martial artist) and has more power. Since shadow isn’t lightspeed i don’t knux being blitzed, at all. Knux defense is waaay to much for shad to conquer and his endurance is just an overkill. Knux wins for various reasons.

      • Knuckles has some decent skill, but he’s not at Shadow’s level. Since Shadow’s massively faster than light, Knuckles would get speedblitzed. His endurance isn’t enough to stop Shadow’s overwhelming attacks and he would go down. That’s not even counting Shadow’s chaos abilities!

      • Shadows fighting skills are formidable, however he is not a martial artist, knux is. He is not ftl either, as he is barely hypersonic, no proof says otherwise. His blows aren’t enough to take on knux’s durability, and the fire shield is overkill. That’s not counting knux chaos and other abilities.

      • Shadow has street knowledge and that’s why his fighting skills are so advanced. Real life combat situations is always the best way to learn. Shadow was able to keep up with Sonic so he’s massively faster than light. His attack power will eat away at Knuckles’ health quickly thanks to the massive speedblitz and bringing in the Chaos Spears would be too much. Knuckles just doesn’t stand a chance

      • Want to talk about street skills? Knux practices his moves and trains every chance he gets, working on his reflexes and honing his skills, shadow doesn’t. Shadow was holding back so he’s not lightspeed, even the wiki said so and states he’s supersonic, and They’re the creators. He won’t speedblitz knux if sonic can’t and thunder arrow will counter chaos spear. Shad can’t handle the defense.

      • Shadow takes on aliens and mighty Hedgehogs. His training is definitely better and he takes down all who get in his way. He’s even able to use Guns! Shadow may have been holding back, but that just makes him even more impressive. Sonic and Shadow are both lightspeed and both hedgehogs can speedblitz Knuckles easily. Chaos Spear>>>Thunder Arrow. Also, since Shadow is faster, it doesn’t matter as he will shoot it first. Shadow’s offense wins!

      • Shadow doesn’t train as much, knux does (check knux’s wiki page under likes) and shad has taken on both hedgehogs and aliens. He’s never been beaten by sonic either. No shadow wasn’t holding back, sonic was, shadow isn’t the type to hild back, so he’s not lightspeed. Chaos spear at best equals thundee arrow and it won’t matter as thunder arrow is faster than chaos spear.

      • Shadow has taken on both hedgehogs and aliens, which is definitely true. Shadow doesn’t need to train much, which is why he’s so cool. Sonic can easily beat Knuckles and Shadow may have been holding back. This is why he’s definitely lightspeed. Chaos Spear is superior and Shadow will launch it faster so he wins via speedbltiz

      • Knux has taken on both of aliens and hedgehogs, and hasn’t lost to either, shadow has lost to sonic. Well shadow may not need to train, but against knux he does, too bad for him and he wasn’t holding, shadow doesn’t do that, it can’t even be assumed as it would be OOC. That’s why he’s not lightspeed. Chaos spear is inferior and the won’t shoot it faster, he shoots it kind of slow. Knux on the other hand has it move super fast, one of the reasons he wins.

      • Sonic beats Knuckles when he wants too. In Sonic DX, it’s safe to say that he was dominating. Shadow and Sonic are far too skilled and quick for Knuckles. Shadow may have been holding back, just so he could mock Sonic. This is why he’s lightspeed. Chaos Spear is far superior and Shadow is much faster than Knuckles, which is why he would get to shoot it first. Let’s face it, how can Knuckles hope to defeat a being as powerful as Shadow? Shadow wins via massive speedblitz and his Chaos Abilities are just overkill

      • Sonic never beats knux, ever, even the wiki says it. I haven’t played sonic dx (one of the only sonic games i haven’t played) but I’m sure they tied, again. Shadow wasn’t holding back or mocking, so that assumption can’t be made and neither can the lightspeed arguement. Chaos spear is not superior (check the gameplay, thunder arrow comes out much faster) and shadow doesn’t say it faster, he just says it :-,. Knux is way to powerful for shad strength wise and defense wise. And since has not lightspeed it’s even worse. Between fire barriers and his chant he cant beat him. At work though tty at six.

      • Let’s just say that Knuckles was not going to win in Sonic DX. The fight scene was epic, but Sonic had the edge. Even if Shadow were giving it his all, he was keeping up with Sonic, which means that he’s lightspeed. Shadow is faster than Knuckles and that’s why he would shoot it faster. Knuckles is tough, but none of his stats are high enough and his chant isn’t quick enough. Shadow takes this via speedblitz and he could even use some chaos abilities

  4. You know what bro, this convo has turned into a futile attempt to reach common ground, but we’re not even agreeing on the basics, so how can we agree on the complex. I’m starting over to the root problem and arguement, speed. Now shadow isn’t lightspeed for these reasons: in the wiki it says he is supersonic approaching hypersonic and can NEARLY equal the speed sonic can run at. The games say they are equals UNTIL sonic 2006 which states he’s slower, about the time sonic started approaching hypersonic or lightspeed. Before 2006 i guess he could only go lightspeed on certain occasions. Shadow since then has stated to be slower (sonic

  5. 2006, sonic rivals, sonic and the dark knight, he states it outright,). Shadow can go supersonic but is right under hypersonic. So he’s about pre-sonic 2006 Speed and knux has done just fine against that sonic. Nearing speeds sonic can run at doesn’t mean lightspeed, it means sonic speed. On emerls profile it say ultimate emerl is multiple times faster than sonic speeds, and in turn multiple times faster than sonic. That means sonics usual fighting speed is supersonic, that’s why shadow can match him. It is only in truly dangerous situations that sonic can go lightspeed, like that one time.

    • So to sum it up when they said they were equals (pre-2006) sonics typical speed was supersonic, and then when they said he could nearly approach sonic’s speed (states on wiki and recent games) sonic’s typical speed is hypersonic, so it’s legit when they say he’s supersonic speeds, now I’ll tty at six, before i get fired lol.

    • I think it means that Sonic usually holds back, but when he goes all out, then he’s lightspeed. So, that’s why he actually was going all out against Shadow in Adventure 2 Battle. The cutscene practically proves it. It is widely accepted that Shadow is only around supersonic level, but I’d say that he’s a lot faster than that. He is basically Sonic’s equal in speed, so it only makes sense that he’s lightspeed.

      • Keeping up with sonic while he’s going supersonic and keeping up woth him at lightspeed are two diff things, he did the former. When he matched him in that cutscene sonics top speed was supersonic, not lightspeed, this is proven when in a game after that one emerl is stated to be multiple times faster than him, so sonic for the first time went lightspeed without his superform. Shadow isn’t lightspeed, and he’s not his equal, the games prove it, he’s only supersonic.

      • I think that Sonic was going at lightspeed. Technically they probably thought that he was going at supersonic speeds because that was his top speed at the time. Since they changed that later on, that means that we must go back to his old games and change that as well, since his top speed is lightspeed. I wouldn’t say that Sonic Battle is the first time that Sonic went lightspeed. When did they say that? Shadow’s gotta be lightspeed

      • No, you don’t change what already happened, because it is what it is. Sonic progressively grew faster and shad no longer was able to keep up, he’s still in the supersonic category. It is his first time going lightspeed, check the ultimate emerl profile. Just because you think he’s lightspeed doesn’t mean he is, even the creators don’t think so.

      • Nah, you’ve gotta update things when the facts change. What would we have done if Pluto was still a planet? Sonic’s max speed wouldn’t just change for no reason. Shadow’s gotta be lightspeed

      • You don’t update something that doesn’t need to be updated, he just got faster and faster. Why do you think the sonic’s speed from supersonic to hypersonic, it’s because he got faster (tails said at this pace he’ll approach lightspeed in sonic generations). It was his first time going lightspeed, so shadows still supersonic bro.

      • Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. Tails says a lot of things, but you’ve gotta take them with a grain of salt. I lost some respect in Sonic Colors, but he was pretty cool back in the SA2B days. Sonic’s speed when he’s holding back is supersonic-hypersonic, but when he’s going all out, it becomes lightspeed. He was definitely going all out against Shadow, which shows why he must be lightspeed

      • No, we don’t know if he could go lightspeed then, that’s why they saud he could with emerl. If he did go lightspeed with shad it would have been stated or him going that speed with emerl wouldn’t have been that big a deal. They didnt lightspeed before then therefore it didn’t happen, so no he’s not lightspeed.

      • It just wouldn’t make sense if Shadow were supersonic. Then Knuckles would have to be mach 2 or something. As it is, Knuckles is around supersonic and Shadow’s lightspeed. That’s just how the ball’s been bouncing over the years. Shadow is basically Sonic’s equal

      • Just because it doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it’s not true, the facts are all there. That’s not how the ball has bounced, never has been, never will be (btw mach 2 is supersonic). They’re not equals.

      • True, but I’d say that the facts are on my side. Shadow and Sonic were made to be equals and they were both at top speed. They must be lightspeed. Just think about it, how else would the universe work?

      • Dude, you have no facts on your side, the only facts spoken were from me, and they support my arguement. They were never meant to be equals, once you get that you’ll be ok. The universe works just fine apparently, as shadow is not his equal, or lightspeed.

      • Shadow’s his equal and he’s definitely lightspeed. I’d rather not bring gameplay mechanics into this, but if we need too…..there is always SA2B. Sonic was unable to keep up with Shadow during their first encounter. Chaos Control played a part in that, but it’s essentially the same as having speed. He could use the same technique on Knuckles. Knuckles won’t have time to use the chant. Moreover, he didn’t even need it during his final battle with Sonic.

      • It says nowhere that shadow and sonic are equals, you made that assumption bro. And sab2 proves nothing, it doesn’t specify the speed traveled, again you made that assumption. I’m not going to comment on that c.c. yet, as it’s not the main issue, speed is. Sonic wasnt lightspeed then, that’s a fact.

      • SA2B definitely proves a lot. Think about it, how else could Shadow keep up with Sonic? They were both going at top speed and there’s no way that Sonic was holding back. Let’s not forget that he kept up with Sonic through the whole game and beat him up in the opening cutscene of Shadow The Hedgehog. Sonic and Shadow are basically equal

      • What part of he wasn’t lightspeed in sab2 didn’t you get!? He was only supersonic speeds. It said in in the manuals. He didn’t beat sonic in shadow the hedgehog, as they didn’t fight each other, they fought the aliens, he passed out from exhaustion. Shadows not his equal, it never says that, you’re lying.

      • I make it a policy to never lie. It seemed to me that Shadow shot Sonic, hence the smoke. Shadow’s lightspeed and Sonic is also ligtspeed. They just didn’t know it at the time. They’re equals

      • No, look at the opening again. It shows him playing through the hero mode and the villain mode. It basically tries to sum up the game so you know what is happening. That’s why he shot Sonic in the evil version

      • I dunno, that seems a little far fetched. Especially considering how determined he was. It’s a possibility, but I think Shadow just took him down….permanently!

      • I was going to take the discussion back to Speed, but since you brought up durability, I’ll start there instead. You think he can be killed by a bullet?

      • Definitely not! That was just the opening being funny. (Like Goku being afraid of bullets in GT) Sonic can tank energy blasts and attacks from “gods” Nobody’s taking him out without a large fight. Of course, he and Shadow could have been fighting for a while off screen

      • I agree that they were trying to make it dramatic, However i do not think that they didn’t think of it accurately, heck they made him. Of course they considered it, they just chose not to do it, as he did not.

      • They didn’t personally make him. Think of Mario, Miyamoto made him, but Nintendo does the games. He has a lot of say, but that’s why Mario has a lot of inaccuracies. Just look at the intro for New Super Mario Bros. Sonic’s had a lot of errors in the past. (Like tying with Gamma, Knuckles, various robots) Sonic is just far too powerful to be stopped

      • Have you lost it!? Inaccuracies!? Thosee aren’t inaccuracies, they were planned and legit! Tying with gamma is legit because he was only a little faster than the bullets he shot and gamma was a fierce foe! And knux, with his power and durability, a few punches =equal alot of punches from sonic, it’s why they tie even now. Gamma may not be able to beat sonic now (same for shadow) because of his speed boost, but him beating them there is completely legit.

      • Trust me, those are inaccurate 😎 Sonic’s way faster than a speeding bullet and while Gamma is tough, he’s nowhere near Sonic level. Knuckles doesn’t have the speed to counter Sonic’s attacks. Sonic is the blue blur for a reason after all

      • He’s called the blue blur because he’s supersonic, not because he’s lightspeed, otheewise he’d be the appariation. He’s lightspeed.

      • If gamma fought Post-sonic battle sonic yes he’d be lightspeed, but since it was before sonic battle he’s only supersonic. Busy though bro ttyl.

      • At work, but I’ll answer this really quick. I saw that too, and i did some research and his wiki implied that (in the trivia) that he was kidding. He wasn’t lightspeed yet.

      • With Sonic’s demeanor, many would definitely consider that option. I would definitely consider Sonic to be lightspeed. Now here’s the deal,

        Let’s suppose that Sonic really is supersonic and that Shadow is also supersonic…Shadow still wins. We agree that Sonic is significantly faster than Knuckles and Shadow is at Sonic’s level in speed. Knuckles has a chant, but he won’t be able to say it instantaneously, which gives Shadow time to use Chaos Control. Even if Pale Flash were to counter it (Which it wouldn’t be able to) Shadow would say it first since he’s quicker. Even if he doesn’t say it in time, Shadow can use his speed to grab Knuckles and quickly throw him into the water. Knuckles would be disoriented and Shadow would be able to fire Chaos Spears at him and also use Chaos Control. Regardless, Knuckles won’t be able to win

      • That’s not shadow’s style, (and btw it takes shad a while to say chaos control, as he builds up energy, knux doesn’t, so he’d be faster) but if we’re going to play that way knux could use hyper knux (game version) who is just as fast as hypersonic (aka sonic’s most powerful form known to date (check the wiki) and would end even supershadow.

      • It doesn’t actually take a while. In Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Shadow is shown to be able to do it instantaneously, without even uttering the words. This is composite, so Hyper Knuckles is valid, but then we have Super Shadow who ends the battle in a heartbeat. Super Shadow is insanely powerful and there’s no way that Hyper Knuckles would be able to keep up with him at all. Super Shadow would win in an instant with his superior lightspeed

      • That chaos control part is (when he teleported off of that rooftop) valid, However knux could sense the buildup and counter. As far as hyperknux goes, you clearly have mistaken him for archie hyper knux. The game hyper knux is an enhanced version of super knux (who is lightspeed, like super shadow) and his abilities excedes the former, making him knux’s most powerful form. He moves at similar speeds to.hypersonic (who.is sonic MOST POWERFUL FORM KNOWN TO DATE) so he is waaay faster then supershadow, which was his only advantage. So super shadow < hyperknux.

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