Spongebob is out of his league in this round. Charizard has a large arsenal of attacks and his speed is also much greater than Spongebob’s. One good shot will be enough to end the round and no living sponge is going to stop this Pokemon! Charizard will be back shortly to see if he can win this double header. He’s off to a good start! Charizard wins.
DReager1.com 
Im sorry dude but i think your underestimating spongebob by like, a shit lot.
And I’m not talking a small amount I’m talking a SHIT LOT
ok yes sure charizard towers over spongebob by like a SHIT LOT.
but that’s not really a problem since spongebob has been able to morph his body into
any shape and size.
His feats, simple, plain old fucking toon force bullshit.
The amount of shit this dude has done destroys every feat charizard has.
Now you may think why cant charizard just use any fire move and dry spongebob out till he dies.
Its possible he could, but, I don’t think it would work.
considering how spongebob has survived being disintegreated before and hell survived up close contact with the sun itself and being erased from reality.
I don’t think its gonna put him down.
His regeneration and durability are just fucking broken, as expected from a toon force character.
hell spongebob could just erase charizard from existence with his pencil. or hell just absorb a bunch of water and fire it at him.
after all he was able to absorb all of earths water before.
Charizard completely lacks the power or anything needed to kill him.
Spongebob could just do anything at will, hell he once rewrote his own story by breaking the 4th wall while living in that story, and hell unraveled the universe.
Like name 1 actual way charizard could take down spongebob rn and watch me shut it down.
I get it man but all of that is really Toon Force. Spongebob isn’t a particularly powerful fighter at all. Put it this way, Charizard should be able to win this match with a single fire blast. You said that you can shut any case for Charizard down right? Well, how do you explain Spongebob taking on a fighter who is faster and stronger than him? All Charizard has to do is grab Spongebob and do a Seismic toss. There would be nothing left of Spongebob as Toon Force doesn’t help once the opponent gets serious. Charizard won’t be smiling so that would be game over.
Faster and stronger? my guy please, spongebob was able to unravel the entire universe in just 5 seconds. and has dodge lasers before.
Stronger? spongebob once effortlessly rotated the entire planet.
and how is charizard meant to hurt sponegbob, who has taken Explosions, nukes and guess what, fire attacks before.
I did mention that spongebob survived being disintegrated before, and then a few seconds later, back to his normal self.
Charizard cannot to a single thing to him.
Toon force is just something spongebob has, we call it this because cartoons are just able to bend their story and laws and physics to their will.
Thats what we call toon force, the power of cartoons, just being able to bend everything you want at will.
The only advantage that charizard even has is that he is potentially bigger if sponegbob decides to stay at his average size, but then again like i said he could just grow himself to charizards level, hell the dude could just put out the flame on charizards tail to completely kill him.
and like i said the only advantage he has, he is slightly smarter since spongebob is a complete man child, though there are times where spongebob gets serious.
Toon Force isn’t a good power to have though because it will always let you down when it counts. Trust me on this one, it’s not as good as actually having the physical abilities that you need in order to win a fight. Those are what will set you above the pack time and time again. Trust in the system here and use it to your advantage.
So for Spongebob, he’ll basically be used as a sponge by Charizard. I’m talking total and complete devastation! Charizard is the kind of fighter who is always fighting hard and he should be throwing Spongebob around. Spongebob can tank a lot of hits with his durability but he has no way to effectively counter attack. That’s what will hurt him here
Toon force aint just some power up, its legit an entire cartoon’s life.
Tell me, how is charizards physical strength meant to stop someone who even when disintegrated or erased from existence, could just pop himself back to normal in just a few seconds.
hell i legit said spongebob once ended up destroying the entire universe in 5 seconds. not only impressive but fast as fuck.
Could charizard do that? No
And its completely consistent with the show.
Why the hell counterattack when charizard can never kill this dude.
Charizard would lose in many ways
1 tire himself out while spongebob goes in for the kill
2 fire on his tail goes out because, well water
3 probably killed by some reality breaking way, because he has done that several times in the show.
Spongebob in his show just completely breaks the laws of physics and legit everything.
Like cmon, stop underestimating toon force and its characters.
Just because charizard is the more cool looking one don’t mean he wins.
what is your excuse for the feats i presented to you?
I’d say Charizard’s physical strength is enough because he would fire it in such a serious context that Spongebob’s Toon Force wouldn’t activate. It’s almost like an intimidation effect that would render Spongebob helpless. He just wouldn’t be able to fight back enough to stop him. Destroying a universe in 5 seconds is impressive but less so with the Toon Force angle. It’s why I don’t see Spongebob being able to hold his own here. He would eventually run out of regen and just go down.
Toon Force feats don’t hold a lot of water here because at the end of the day they can’t beat the serious one. Give me a serious city buster over a Toon Force universe destroyer. It’s all about how legit the feats actually are and that is absolutely key here
Agian spongebob’s toon force is not some attack or ability, its pretty much spongebob himself, its not an ability spongebob needs to activate, its already activated, like spongebob has willed so many shit into existence, even was able to light fire under water.
Dude defies all logic and does not care. If charizard would to punch spongebob, he would be sent flying in a comical manner before getting right back up, (also in a comical matter)
Toon force feats, are serious feats.
Its just that toon force make the serious feats more fun, when in reality there fucking insane and highly dangerous.
They also end up being completely consistent with the character, again most of their small downfalls just add to the comical feats before getting back up again good as new.
Agian that does not explain how charizard could kill spongebob, after all he did survive being disintegrated.
Explain how that’s meant to be stopped?
Toon Force doesn’t really work so well in a serious context though. Put it this way if Charizard hits Spongebob with a serious attack then he won’t be able to activate the Toon Force because it relies on humor to work. So without it he’s basically powerless and just about ready to be crushed. There is no way to stand up to such unbelievable power. Serious feats>>Toon Force.
So Charizard just has to beat up on him and the regen will stop. Unless Spongebob can get Charizard to laugh or take notice of the Toon Force then it will only hold him back because Charizard is not playing ball. That’s the downside of relying on Toon Force as a weapon. It will ultimately let you down when it counts the most.
When spongebob was serious, toon force was still there, like the dude had a episode with Patrick where they legit build tanks, mechs, planes and a whole with just fucking sand, and they legit had an all out war. sure its not that impressive but the point is, toon force still resids with spongebob even when serious,
and like I said spongebob does not have to activate toon force, its not an ability.
Charizard cannot just continue to beat spongebob until his regen stops, cause it doesn’t stop.
Spongebob can turn anything serious into some stupid and weird thing but it ends up getting him a victory on numerous occasions.
Dude has even rewritten himself before to become strong, he could just rewrite himself strong and rewrite charizard weak.
Or just unravel charizard from existence,or whatever bullshit SpongeBob thinks of.
Charizards seriousness would just add to the comical part of spongebob and would just fuel spongebobs everlasting imagination.
Another key factor i remember is this, since your a fucking weeb who wants most anime characters to win then I’m sure in dragon ball super you remember a crossover with Another toon force character arale.
Arale who also has toon force, shit on both vegeta and goku in one of the crossover episodes.
So this brings the question, how come beerus was able to beat arale or pretty much one tap arale but goku and vegeta struggled so much. Tbh, a lot of answers needed to be added, it is stated by toriyama that toon force does not work on beerus, and that is saying ALOT, but its a little confusing. Its not mentioned why beerus has this kind of immunity to things like this.
People say its because hakai was just far too op even for gag characters so therefore beerus would win, but then that would mean goku and vegeta could win, because they could use hakai, though in the anime they don’t use it but in the manga they do. Another reason is that
Due to beerus being there because of a food pellet and the fact that a stomach ache forced him to leave, it added to the whole gag character shit, and the 3rd is that no arale would still slap beerus. Its unclear bu the main point is.
Charizard would be incapable of winning this fight against sponegbob
Lets take all 3 outcomes of arale’s feats into account
For one charizard would need an attack that is just like hakai or is similar to hakai or some bullshit. Which charizard don’t have, even then spongebob has survived being erased from existence before so it would hardly matter.
Second, for charizard to win he too would have to act like a gag character and add to the comedy effect, unfortunately, Charizard’s are more well known to be very serious fighters. and even then charizard would not know this kind of so called weakness nor have the guts to pull it off, even then vegeta knew about gag characters and even attempted gags of his own, same with goku, but they still failed.
3, well 3 is pretty self explanatory, SpongeBob wins.
I will leave the beerus discussion up to you
Spongebob is just a living sponge though. I mean what are we doing? He couldn’t beat Charmander let alone Charizard! Okay fine lets go through this. Arale is actually really powerful it’s not just Toon Force. I would put her around Android 19 level but maybe a bit weaker. She can fight outside of the Toon Force but Spongebob doesn’t have any of that. It’s because he’s too limited in his verse and doesn’t have any really powerful opponents to go up against. It’s not his fault of course that’s just how it is. Outgunned and outmatched, the worst possible combination if you ask me.
Beerus is pretty powerful so if you wanted me to debate him vs Sasuke then I would have to go with Beerus. While the Sharingan should have some good effects I don’t think they would be enough to stop Beerus and his strength of will. He’d punch his way through the illusions and just go for the win. He’s a really cold fighter like that who will do whatever it takes in order to win. That’s his nindo..his ninja way!
Back to Spongebob though, I get where you’re coming from here but at the end of the day Toon Force isn’t going to be doing a whole lot here. Spongebob needs a serious fight episode like Arale if he wants to have a chance.
Yeah but those still weren’t serious within the context that the show itself doesn’t get serious. Put Charizard in there and all of that is getting blown away real quick. Put Charizard in there and that’s game over. There just isn’t anything that Spongebob would be able to do to try and get in a good comeback. They’re on completely different levels with pure attack power. He can rewrite himself a bunch of times but Charizard is still coming in with the knockout blow!
Dude, goku legit used ssgss and fired a Kamehameha at her and on god arale fired a beam too and goku was legit about to die. Even vegeta, the serious bastard, could not win despite him being full on serious too.
Why would charizard be different?
With pure attack power, SpongeBob destroys charizard, again dude, the whole rotate earth, breaking reality, universe ending destruction kinda speaks for itself.
Arale is actually powerful though. I put her on SSJ1 level at least even if I think Goku was sandbagging a little in that fight. Spongebob has no real power though, he has to rely on ToonForce and that’s what is going to hurt him here. He can’t use that to win because it isn’t a winning strategy. It’s like me pulling out a bowl of oreos in a sword fight. Spongebob can make it work with Toon Force but in a serious context it wouldn’t do the trick.
Arale relies on the same exact power spongebob has, toonforce.
In fights with a toon force character, its always been a serious context, Its just that this toonforce character is using its toonforce properties to fight. Arale is already a good example of this.
And may I add that the series where arale comes from, Dr.slump, is never a fighting series at all.
Here is what toonforce means,
“It is the ability to replace or apply absurd laws of the universe; the user gains the ability to bend to or even outright overhaul the traditional laws of physics and reality itself at will to create those that are much more lenient in what can and cannot happen.”
This is what pretty much most toon force characters can do.
Arale and spongebob both have toonforce, and considering arale beat the shit out of goku and vegeta, there’s no reason to believe spongebob, someone far more proned with toon force, could win against both goku and vegeta, and hell even more against charizard.
I dunno about that, Arale is legitimately powerful. We’re not talking Bugs Bunny here but someone more like Superman. Her roots were similar to Spongebob and all but in the end she surpassed that and proved herself in a serious context as well. I’d agree that Spongebob is at a bit of a disadvantage here because he hasn’t had that moment but it isn’t her fault. So she could fight and ultimately defeat Charizard but we need tpo see more out of the Pokemon if he wanted to compete. Otherwise he’s basically doomed here and that’s why he is out of luck.
Spongebob has no real attacks that can damage Charizard and every time he winds up for a big punch he would be knocked down. Charizard doesn’t hold back at all and just goes in for the win every time. It is the power of the waves.
Dude all toon force characters are legitimately powerful. Popeye, bugs bunny, SpongeBob, arale, pretty much every known toon force character is legitimately powerful.
She was not even trying to fight goku, she was just having fun, which pretty much makes the point of dr. slump. Hell Vegeta explicitly states how toon force characters or well gag characters as he refers to arale as, works. You yourself have to be either a toon force character or do something to add to the whole comedic effect. But of course even when they tried that they still failed, beerus however, theoretically succeeded.
Besides where is the proof of Charizard being capable of actually hurting SpongeBob through feats, Your only claim is that toon force won’t work. where is the proof of your claim on that?
Toon Force characters aren’t that strong though. They use cheap tricks and underhanded tactics in order to win and that’s why I can’t abide by them. Vegeta was giving Arale a lot of credit but at the end of the day he could have still defeated her. Actually this comment sounds familiar but the site is saying I haven’t responded to it yet so just in case I’ll wrap this up.
Charizard would just hit Spongebob hard enough where the attacks would land. Nothing fancy and that’s just all that he would need. Ultimately it would be the crushing victory that he needs to take things to the next stage. Game Set and Match as they would say over in the base.
How about we talk about some specific moves Charizard can whip out that you think couldn’t be made funny? Because that’s essentially all that Toon Force is based on. Tanking damage because it can be done in a way that’s considered funny. So let’s see if you can list moves that can’t be lumped into this.
I dunno I’d say just having powerful attacks could work. But lets talk about Seismic toss. When he grabs Spongebob, the sponge will joke around a bit at first. Like “Gee we’re going kinda fast right?” as they go higher and higher. Once they’re near the top Spongebob’s going to actually be scared though and there goes the Toon Force. Just a quick knockout blow and that’s the end of that.
Additionally we have to consider that Charizard is that dude. He has a lot of serious move and Spongebob won’t be able to react or land any counter blows to stop him. It would be a rather one sided smackdown.
Put it this way, Spongebob has no way of really hurting Charizard while the Pokemon is on a completely different level with his moves. There would just be no way to stop him
i searched the entire Charizard moveset and could not find a single one that spongebob could not tank. Spongebob has been shown to turn pretty much any simple thing into some comedic way.
Even a single good morning to the sun caused this
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8effd257c3a4fb9ecaac0ce2dfb0c1c6.webp
Him straight up looking at the sun, unburned at all.
Hell spongebob even has straight up ignored damage from people
Its very likely he could just straight up ignore all of charizards attacks.
or turn it into a karate joke while busting out his karate gear.
I hear ya but I dunno about that. Okay lets say Charizard does the seismic toss. When he grabs Spongebob, the sponge will joke around a bit at first. Like “Gee we’re going kinda fast right?” as they go higher and higher. Once they’re near the top Spongebob’s going to actually be scared though and there goes the Toon Force. Just a quick knockout blow and that’s the end of that.
Additionally we have to consider that Charizard is that dude. He has a lot of serious move and Spongebob won’t be able to react or land any counter blows to stop him. It would be a rather one sided smackdown
seismic toss is a horrible example, for one, SpongeBob has been to space and even the moon before, Hell he even absorbed enough water to become the fucking moon.
I don’t think charizard yeeting him into space is gonna scare him. Plus, seismic toss does not actually throw people into space. So there goes your point.
And even if it did, a move that yeets the dude into space might end up adding another comical effect.
You keep saying how characters are that dude.
Saying there, that dude, is not a valid point to make in the efforts to plead for the character your deciding should win.
Plus, SpongeBob, like I said earlier could just ignore pretty much every attack charizard makes, it adds to the comical effect and it helps SpongeBob win.
Even if charizard knew about the weakness of toon force, there was no real way he could exploit it.
Aight I’ll stop saying that Sasuke is That dude but just so long as we both know that he is That dude. Sasuke is the guy you definitely want to hide from at all costs because he is just way too powerful.
Back to Charizard though, he would be slamming Spongebob into the ground really hard. There’s nothing funny about that. In fact if Spongebob knows about concussions then he is going to be even more nervous about it. Picture Charizard landing this combo on Spongebob
The sheer speed and anger behind the hits will nullify any comedic effect. Spongebob isn’t going to be doing much here
“I hear ya but I dunno about that. Okay lets say Charizard does the seismic toss. When he grabs Spongebob, the sponge will joke around a bit at first. Like “Gee we’re going kinda fast right?” as they go higher and higher. Once they’re near the top Spongebob’s going to actually be scared though and there goes the Toon Force. Just a quick knockout blow and that’s the end of that.”
Spongebob is constantly scared throughout his show. Acting like simply making SpongeBob scared will take out Toon Force is extremely silly.
Here’s a 19 minute video of him being scared of a shit ton of stuff
And if you want to make the argument that this will scare him to a significantly higher degree? Well then you have to demonstrate with evidence from the source material that this will affect his Toon Force.
And like Wat has laid out, even if he does get thrown into space, this could easily be made comedic, so your point is very much moot. Bring out some more moves
“Additionally we have to consider that Charizard is that dude. He has a lot of serious move and Spongebob won’t be able to react or land any counter blows to stop him. It would be a rather one sided smackdown”
Like I said before, list some more of these serious moves. You wanna argue Charizard can get past Toon Force? As Captain Falcon would say, show me your moves.
Okay that 19 minute video was pretty impressive. Imagine the damage Spongebob would take to this attack though:
https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8443854080/hE12E0ED9/i-think-charizard-broke-rhydons-neck
He would be terrified because this kind of attack should be absolutely impressible. He’s never met anyone who had that kind of ability before.
https://gfycat.com/dishonestsolidelkhound
If Charizard melts a rock like that in front of Spongebob then he knows he’s doomed.
https://gfycat.com/violetpastelermine
This explosion was over a building large
https://gfycat.com/generalcheapblobfish
Surpassing legendaries
https://gfycat.com/shockedafraidaphid
Fireblast so fast that it outran a hyper beam.
https://gfycat.com/perfectdefiniteboa
Splitting a hole in the sky
https://gfycat.com/leftnecessaryflea
Blocking a steel wing with his hand.
Toon Force isn’t going to be doing anything against this. Spongebob has to eat the loss because ultimately he won’t have the stamina to resist such powerful attacks. This isn’t even considering Charizard’s mega mode
“He would be terrified because this kind of attack should be absolutely impressible. He’s never met anyone who had that kind of ability before.”
Gets terrified, gets punched and then it either sinks in bc he’s a sponge or launches him in a funny way. Has zero effect on Toon Force. Next.
“If Charizard melts a rock like that in front of Spongebob then he knows he’s doomed.”
Spongebob’s been incinerated and was just fine afterwards. And toon force can easily accommodate Spongebob becoming a bunch of liquid goo with his face on it. Doesn’t affect Toon Force in the slightest. Next.
“This explosion was over a building large”
Awesome, that was because two similar beams collided, and not because of anything else. So it would probably just incinerate Spongebob. And again he’s dealt with that and was just fine afterwards. Doesn’t affect Toon Force. Next.
“Surpassing legendaries”
Incinerates Spongebob, does nothing lasting afterwards, doesn’t affect Toon Force. Rinse and repeat. Next.
“Fireblast so fast that it outran a hyper beam.”
Speed is irrelevant, still gonna incinerate Spongebob. Same as before. Next.
“Splitting a hole in the sky”
Yeah I’m not gonna take him splitting some clouds seriously. It’s not even a living target being attacked here. Irrelevant, next.
“Blocking a steel wing with his hand.”
Wtf does this have to do with ANYTHING here. He catches Steel Wing therefore no Toon Force? What even is the logic here? Charizard’s not even doing any damage, it’s just a catch. At least with the others I can understand that they’re specific attacks.
“Toon Force isn’t going to be doing anything against this. Spongebob has to eat the loss because ultimately he won’t have the stamina to resist such powerful attacks. This isn’t even considering Charizard’s mega mode”
What you cite here are things Spongebob can EASILY tank and has done so. Wat has already shown you him being disintegrated which is pretty much the worst that Charizard can do based on what you’ve shown. Spongebob is more than capable of dealing with this.
The problem with Toon Force is that is just isn’t enough to win in pretty much any fight. Lets say that Spongebob does keep on regenerating, he’s still got nothing in the tank to take Charizard down. Meanwhile his stamina is going to be running out with each regeneration similar to how Buu gets weaker every time he reforms. This seems to be a common element for just about all fighters who regenerate and even Toon Force wouldn’t be able to stop this.
Picture it, Charizard is flying all around Spongebob and just comboing him to oblivion. There isn’t a whole lot that Spongebob can do to stop him and it’ll stop being funny to him very quickly. He has trouble with all kinds of fighters in the video games and a normal human is able to crush him in combat. Toon Force is great at prolonging a fight but it’s never the winning strike. Charizard’s more traditional attacks are what you really want to have in the pocket.
“The problem with Toon Force is that is just isn’t enough to win in pretty much any fight. Lets say that Spongebob does keep on regenerating, he’s still got nothing in the tank to take Charizard down. Meanwhile his stamina is going to be running out with each regeneration similar to how Buu gets weaker every time he reforms. This seems to be a common element for just about all fighters who regenerate and even Toon Force wouldn’t be able to stop this.”
Buu is not Spongebob. Provide evidence from the source material or anyone who can speak to how Toon Force operates. Any attempt to use the “everything works off of energy” argument like you did in the Giorno vs Sasuke battle will be ignored. I want a specific argument pertaining specifically to Toon Force.
“Picture it, Charizard is flying all around Spongebob and just comboing him to oblivion. There isn’t a whole lot that Spongebob can do to stop him and it’ll stop being funny to him very quickly. He has trouble with all kinds of fighters in the video games and a normal human is able to crush him in combat. Toon Force is great at prolonging a fight but it’s never the winning strike. Charizard’s more traditional attacks are what you really want to have in the pocket.”
This is composite Spongebob. He can literally just pull the string which literally unloops the entire universe and use it as floss. Toon Force isn’t even needed in this context. You would have to be smoking something real strong to act like Charizard can survive in this scenario. Toon Force is just what allows him to live until that point. So your argument about Toon Force prolonging the fight only is utterly irrelevant.
Pulling the universe through a string is super impressive I’ll grant you that but at the same time it won’t be enough to scare Charizard. He will be in there with the Toon Force too so Spongebob has no way to stop him. Every Toon Force moment can be embraced and then Charizard goes for the win. He can just throw out a few haymakers and by then Spongebob will probably be tuckered out from doing all of the toon forcing. He would only be tiring himself out while everyone else keeps on winning. That’s his biggest weakness here.
No prob here is the exact clip I use to show the limits of toon force every time:
No matter how strong your toon force is, it will lose to brute strength. The monster squad exposed Bugs and Daffy and those two are generally known as the strongest users of toon force. There was just no way to stop them. There still isn’t and that’s how good the villains were. If Spongebob tries his toon force Charizard will just knock him out
“Pulling the universe through a string is super impressive I’ll grant you that but at the same time it won’t be enough to scare Charizard. He will be in there with the Toon Force too so Spongebob has no way to stop him. Every Toon Force moment can be embraced and then Charizard goes for the win. He can just throw out a few haymakers and by then Spongebob will probably be tuckered out from doing all of the toon forcing. He would only be tiring himself out while everyone else keeps on winning. That’s his biggest weakness here.”
Toon Force is not an ability Charizard possesses Dreager, so no Charizard will simply die from either being ripped apart by the string or being unable to breath. The Toon Force in the show applies to Spongebob and other characters within that show. It doesn’t just magically apply to a character from a different universe because you want it to.
“No prob here is the exact clip I use to show the limits of toon force every time:
No matter how strong your toon force is, it will lose to brute strength. The monster squad exposed Bugs and Daffy and those two are generally known as the strongest users of toon force. There was just no way to stop them. There still isn’t and that’s how good the villains were. If Spongebob tries his toon force Charizard will just knock him out”
Bugs is not Spongebob. Daffy is not Spongebob. And they were defeated by other toons in the same universe, who also demonstrate Toon Force when Daffy twists the face of one of the monsters and shows the skull. Charizard is not a Toon in the same way Daffy, Bugs and the monsters are. Irrelevant video and argument.
Toon Force affects the person you’re fighting though and that’s its biggest weakness. The instant that Spongebob uses it, Charizard will be in the Toon verse as well and then he can take advantage of all elements of it as well. So at that point his superior fighting abilities will quickly take Spongebob down. The sponge isn’t ready to deal with a hard hitting opponent like this.
Bugs and Daffy are much more powerful than Spongebob though so if they lost to powerful monsters like this then it’s game over. Picture those guys as Charizard stomping on Spongebob and that’ll be game over. The end of an era in one fell swoop
“Toon Force affects the person you’re fighting though and that’s its biggest weakness. The instant that Spongebob uses it, Charizard will be in the Toon verse as well and then he can take advantage of all elements of it as well. So at that point his superior fighting abilities will quickly take Spongebob down. The sponge isn’t ready to deal with a hard hitting opponent like this.”
Provide evidence that Toon Force affects the person a Toon Force character is fighting. Specifically in the sense that it allows the non Toon Force character to survive stuff the Toon Force character can. Scans, videos etc. are the only things that will be accepted.
“Bugs and Daffy are much more powerful than Spongebob though so if they lost to powerful monsters like this then it’s game over. Picture those guys as Charizard stomping on Spongebob and that’ll be game over. The end of an era in one fell swoop”
They lost to powerful monsters that also have Toon Force just like them. Charizard is not a toon. Him being a part of an animated series does not make him a toon. Provide evidence that Charizard specifically has the power of Toon Force or drop the argument.Also are you seriously going to just simply assert that Bugs and Daffy are more powerful than SpongeBob unravelling the entire universe? Especially with nothing to back up your claim?
Poorly constructed arguments with nothing holding them up as usual, Dreager.
Yeah we have a direct example from one of the GOAT series of all time. Dragon Ball Z.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvmsMfu1krI
Arale uses her toon force almost immediately at 0:10 and then after that she starts pounding away at Vegeta who starts eating those hits. Toon Force automatically transfers to your opponent in all scenarios. It’s one of the reasons why I’ve never been a big fan of the concept because it can’t win you battles. At best it can just keep you in a stalemate the whole time and ultimately that doesn’t help anyone. You need a little more pop if you are going to beat the top tiers. That’s the way I see it at least.
Those monsters do have some toon force but mainly it was brute strength that was enough to overcome the toon powers. I would say Bugs and Daffy are typically portrayed as more powerful with the toon force. They are pretty much the champs of the toon force game when all is said and done. Spongebob is tough with it too though and at the end of the day toon force users do tend to be pretty close. None of them ever tend to be all that powerful next to more conventional fighters and since they can all do just about anything with it they tend to cancel out. Don’t see them doing much against a Seismic Toss from Charizard
“Arale uses her toon force almost immediately at 0:10 and then after that she starts pounding away at Vegeta who starts eating those hits. Toon Force automatically transfers to your opponent in all scenarios. It’s one of the reasons why I’ve never been a big fan of the concept because it can’t win you battles. At best it can just keep you in a stalemate the whole time and ultimately that doesn’t help anyone. You need a little more pop if you are going to beat the top tiers. That’s the way I see it at least.”
So Arale eats hits in a Toon Force manner. Then she hits Vegeta a single time with an attack he likely could already survive being a powerful Saiyan and all. I see no evidence that this is Toon Force transferring to Vegeta. And even if you could, A) Dragon Ball Z is a different universe and B) both SpongeBob and Charizard are from different universes. I’m not taking this idea seriously at all. Move on to a different point.
“Those monsters do have some toon force but mainly it was brute strength that was enough to overcome the toon powers. I would say Bugs and Daffy are typically portrayed as more powerful with the toon force. They are pretty much the champs of the toon force game when all is said and done. Spongebob is tough with it too though and at the end of the day toon force users do tend to be pretty close. None of them ever tend to be all that powerful next to more conventional fighters and since they can all do just about anything with it they tend to cancel out. Don’t see them doing much against a Seismic Toss from Charizard”
If they have ANY Toon Force it negates your argument entirely. That is Toon Force brute strength plain and simple. Until the moment you can provide evidence that they aren’t also Toons, this argument is invalid. Charizard is not a Toon, he does not have Toon Force. Plain and simple. This video and these monsters will be treated as invalid as evidence for this exact reason. Move on to a different point.
Arale is crazy strong though. Don’t underestimate just how broken she can be with the Toon Force. I feel like Vegeta may have been using toon force in that moment. Now as to this being a different verse, well yeah that’s true but rules are constant so I feel like it still applies. It’s just one of those things y’know? Should I grab a Pokemon example? but none of them use toon force so I’d have to grab a serious fight which may not help.
Space Jam’s whole purpose of the movie was about how toon force isn’t always enough and they needed Michael Jordan to stand a chance here. That was a big part of the hype so without that I dunno. Okay my next point would circle around to how toon force just isn’t as good as conventional powers. Think about it, would you rather have someone like Superman guarding you or Bugs Bunny? Conventional abilities are more impressive and won’t let you down when in a pinch
“Arale is crazy strong though. Don’t underestimate just how broken she can be with the Toon Force. I feel like Vegeta may have been using toon force in that moment. Now as to this being a different verse, well yeah that’s true but rules are constant so I feel like it still applies. It’s just one of those things y’know? Should I grab a Pokemon example? but none of them use toon force so I’d have to grab a serious fight which may not help.”
You feel like Vegeta may been using Toon Force. Cool. I don’t care about what you feel. I care about what you can show. And what you showed is a strong Toon Force character punching a strong non Toon Force character away. That’s it. That doesn’t demonstrate that Vegeta suddenly got Toon Force from that. No Toon Force was demonstrably shown there. It’s entirely based on a feeling of yours. And no, rules across universes are not constant. It is not just one of those things. Different universes have different powers, abilities, and the way it’s applied in universe and by creators. It’s silly to try and act as if you can just squeeze them together and just say they’re essentially operating off of the same rules.
“Space Jam’s whole purpose of the movie was about how toon force isn’t always enough and they needed Michael Jordan to stand a chance here. That was a big part of the hype so without that I dunno. Okay my next point would circle around to how toon force just isn’t as good as conventional powers. Think about it, would you rather have someone like Superman guarding you or Bugs Bunny? Conventional abilities are more impressive and won’t let you down when in a pinch”
Cool. I don’t care about Space Jam’s purpose and what hyped it up. My point about the monsters stands regardless of whatever hype and purpose you want to get into Y
And as for it not being as good as conventional powers? Also cool. You have yet to meaningfully talk about the string ripping apart the universe feat in any meaningful way. Stop ignoring this feat Dreager. This isn’t Toon Force Dreager, and is a more conventional ability he can utilize. So by your logic it’s more impressive and won’t let you down when in a pinch right?
Ah, Space Jam’s such a good movie though. Still lets jump back to the string ripping the universe apart. How is that not a Toon Force moment? Everyone would be dead otherwise, it’s purely a visual gag and doesn’t impact Spongebob’s overall strength. He’s not a universe buster and we know this. It’s just something done for a quick laugh. Bugs Bunny is street level after all and he has broken whole planets. Give me conventional abilities anytime because you can see how they would dominate the field and help you out of any spot you get into. That is true power…that is hope!
Now for Vegeta with the Toon Force, yeah I can’t totally prove it there but it makes sense. You transfer Toon Force through physical contact and overall fighting ability. So automatically you should be able to transfer this through a fight because otherwise what else are you going to use it for?
Different Universes have different rules but there are some universal constants and I would say that Toon Force is one of them. Using it requires both parties to now be Toon forces and if that’s the case then the more powerful fighter will win. Toon Force is purely a method for stalling for time and you can’t win a fight like that. It’s why Charizard would still win this with a well timed Seismic Toss. Spongebob isn’t a serious fighter like that and would be quickly overwhelmed in due course.
The examples you bring are shit and don’t even compare to what SpongeBob has survived
For one charizard did not break rhydons neck, two spongebob has tanked a hit from nuclear explosions before. Hell, a nuclear explosion was how he came to life thanks to some stupid radiation bullshit or something.
hell this was when he was disintegreated
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3b4326b9fdd03d97d28d43a55142cc40-lq
And then a few seconds later he poofed back to his normal self.
Hell the dude has access to a pencil that can draw anything he desires into life, and even use the eraser from the pencil to erase pretty much anything from existence.
Even without the pencil SpongeBob has used simple sand to make pretty much anything, this proof of the spongebob episode Sand Castles in the Sand.
Where spongebob and Patrick have a literal sand war with sand tanks, mechs, planes and other bullshit. Hell he can also use bubbles too.
And like I already pointed out, SpongeBob has survived direct close-ups to the sun itself, Charizard flames burning through stone won’t do shit.
Hell Patrick even ran to the sun and back in 15 seconds and came out just with just burnt butt.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9b140eb2a74aadbe69ebc8690baab04e
I highly doubt charizards arsenal could counter spongebobs
You’re right that Spongebob tanks a whole lot thanks to the powers of Toon Force but it won’t let him land any real blows. Charizard is still a whole lot faster and has way more options up his sleeve. He will keep Charizard on the defensive at all times where the Pokemon won’t have any way to really counter attack. He would just be losing ground with every strike until eventually he is out.
The regen would run out very quickly and Spongebob would start to feel sad instead of being happy about it. Once Charizard takes him on in a serious context then Spongebob’s bag of tricks will pretty much be exhausted. He won’t know what to do or how to stop the guy.
Spongebob was able to destroy an entire universe simply by pulling string
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-94c0a813fa0f8191ba860d580fbe0bb5-lq
Wanna know something even crazier, he did this in only a few seconds
Spongebobs regen would not run out either, cause it never has, also how the hell do you run out of regeneration? especially with toon force characters who pretty much have regn far more broken then almost every other fictional character
And like cmon
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2025896ba0ee3e1ca0ecccd34aa873f2
Spongebob could just do that shit without having to worry about charizard even hurting him.
And turning spongebob sad wont stop his toon force.
Cause spongebob once cryied so much that he flooded all of bikini bottom, and btw, he flooded all of bikini bottom, even when it was already submerged in water.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f72929b6545f868c79243d785f5d60eb
Hell the dude pulls a Issac and uses his tears as a legit weapon
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-661114b313d181943bb571cd4b3c8227
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1105fe902c6d9acc41fc108ae095e757
Here is him casually rotating the entire earth
He on some gravity and reality warping bullshit
And his pencil could pretty much erase charizard from existence
I admit that those feats are pretty crazy but here’s the trouble with Toon Force. Anything Spongebob can do with it, Charizard would be able to counter. Whenever you get someone in a toon force situation they are brought there with you so that means that Charizard would be in the room in each case and then he could counter attack from there. So as long as he keeps on fighting then the toon force will eventually go out and he will keep on fighting. Way I see it, Toon Force can prolong a battle but it can never win it. Physical power is still needed in the end and that’s what Charizard has on lock
What counters would charizard have to beat spongebob?
I had already shown many times why any fire attacks would do nothing to him.
and physical attack and ranged attacks would do nothing considering how spongebob could practically ignore all damage done.
Spongebob pretty much can will anything into existence the way he wants it too.
Also what evidence is there that toon force will just go out?
Its not a life source spongebob draws off of, its a concept or more like a way to describe cartoons and there reality warping bullshit.
What good is charizards physical strength and power if spongebob can just ignore it, while spongebob probably beats charizard in some goofy way.
Besides his pencil could pretty much bypass and instant kill charizard anyway by completely erasing him from existence, literally erasing him with the eraser from the pencil.
Charizard is pretty much a toon though once Spongebob starts using his attacks so that’s why Spongebob would be out of luck. The instance they are in the same space, Charizard’s fire and speed would prove to be too much. A single fireblast would just utterly devastate Spongebob. He would be dried out and that would be too funny to stop.
You ever watch Space Jam? That’s what would happen to Spongebob. He would finally meet his match and be down for the count. That’s the power of true fighters against a toon force user. It just isn’t enough in the end and it will be the cause of Spongebob’s downfall.
Charizard will not be denied!
Charizard is not a toon force character, charizard is technically an anime character, and keep in mind not all cartoons have toon force.
and there are even some that are not cartoons but have toon force
for example the mask
If charizard had toon force, he could pretty much not be damaged, would probably have done something to break the 4th wall or break his reality.
Why mention fire blast when i showed you a feat that spongebob can survive fire, again you just cant find good arguments
as for space jam
Why are you showing me toon force characters being beaten up by other toon force characters?
The monstars have toon force just like bugs and his crew, so this really does not add to your argument with charizard winning.
and hell this gives a good example of toon force, despite the beating they took, they could not be killed, charizard would suffer the same problem with spongebob before spongebob finally decides to actually attack and completely destroy charizard.
Right, Charizard isn’t a toon force character but that works to his advantage since non toon force characters are stronger than the ones who do have those abilities. Think about this for a second, Charizard has real powers and doesn’t have to rely on toon force while that’s all that Spongebob has in his arsenal. So Charizard can stand there and eat every attack while Spongebob has to be watching his back the whole time. When Spongebob attacks it will just turn Charizard into a toon but not the other way around. That’s why Charizard has the big advantage here.
This would be a serious fire blast which is different from a toon blast. I just don’t see Spongebob having enough sponges to take care of this. He would be getting absolutely devastated the whole time. The Space Jam villains were barely toons though and that’s why they were attacking in the first place. It’s just that using toon force on anyone turns them into a toon. Spongebob won’t have many options here while Charizard can just keep on fighting strong
What are you talking about
those with toon force abilities have the most fucked up abilities that characters who don’t have toon force cant compete with.
This does not go for every toon force characters but a majority of them like popeye,bugs bunny, spongebob, they have it.
Abilities include
-the power to 4th wall break
-bend time and space
-warp reality
-have insane strength and speed
-the most broken durability
-broken as hell regeneration
-to some degree, plot manipulation
Spongebob has shown to have all of these things and has done so.
2nd of all, not every character that a toon force character meets will automatically become a toon force character too. Spongebob has met humans before and they don’t suddenly gain the power to warp reality or regenerate from nothing.
And even if charizard did gain access to toon force because he met spongebob, his toon force simply cant compete with spongebob’s own level of toonforce.
Spongebob’s toon force as well as the main casts toonforce are on a much higher level then those apart of the residence of bikini bottom.
Toonforce requires the situation to lead to some goofy cartoonish gag
like say willing things into thin air, maybe when getting damaged they have some goofy way of expressing how hurt they are.
For reference, that video shown by you from spacejam,The main cast was getting faded in a funny comical way.
But by the end of that beating, they were fine, And hell bare in mind we had people being crushed, dismembered, and sent flying. and yet the main cast was still ok at the end.
and no the monstars did indeed have toon force, they came from the same universe from bugs bunny.
and besides i already mentioned the pencil, which could easily erase charizard from existence.
We had already given you feats like spongebob surviving direct contact with the sun, being disintagrated, erased from existence.
Charizard really cant hurt him
While spongebob could unravel the whole universe in 5 seconds.
It does not matter how much charizard tries, he is going to fail fighting against the dude who lives in a pineapple under the sea
I do respect that Spongebob lives in a pineapple. I actually think that’s pretty smart since the acidic nature of the fruit should ward off attackers and it also means he has a food supply if he ever gets hungry. That being said, he’s still not touching Charizard and here’s why. Charizard is a power player. A physical fighter who doesn’t fear anything and has nothing to lose. As a result he will be fighting really hard here. So hard in fact that nobody will be ready to stop him. He won’t be amused here and will just be taking Spongebob down.
Spongebob has confidence because he finds everything to be funny but when Charizard starts beating him into the ground suddenly he won’t find any of it very funny. He will be on the back foot the whole time and will be scrambling to try and grab some wins but will have no luck. He’s just not in the conversation right now. He doesn’t have a chance at claiming the victories here and will end up going down for the count.
So I get what you’re saying but Spongebob is still limited to the realm of comedy while Charizard can fight in any playing field right off the bat
Spongebob tanks explosions,punches,kicks,nukes and he and his friends go through so much hell that nobody including charizard should have survived. If your able to take a nuclear explosion point blank in the face. Its safe to say your not dying.
Even if charizard were kicking and punching or burning spongebob alive, it would never kill him
Besides even if spongebob was scared or upset about being beaten up, that does not stop him from pulling off his everyday cartoon bs.
The realm of comedy follows him wherever he goes, it does not matter how serious charizard may be about killing spongebob, others were serious about harming spongebob and they failed to kill him, hell even harm him enough to the point where he could never recover.
Cause he always could recover, he has survived practically everything, from nuclear explosions to pure existence erasure, and has many ways to the end the fight when needed, after all, there have been times where spongebob has been serious, and has used his toon force to its deadliest extent
Turning sand into nuclear weapons, fighter jets, mechs
Drawing anything or erasing anything in existence.
The list can go on
Charizard is stuck to the rules of reality, while spongebob has manipulated it a thousand times over with 0 drawbacks.
The only drawback is that he is a complete idiot, but sometimes he stupidity can be his deadliest weapon.
Charizard definitely takes this though. Spongebob has gotten game overs in the past. He can absolutely be injured and defeated and since Charizard won’t be amused, Spongebob should be very nervous right about now. If you take away his toon force then he has nothing going for him and in effect that is what Charizard would be doing here. He would keep blasting Spongebob over and over until the sponge has had enough. Spongebob would be wondering what to do next and after that he would start fading awful fast. There would just be no way out at that point and that would be the end of him.
Charizard is better armed and better trained. He continues to surpass his limits and grow ever stronger with each passing day. There is a reason why he is known as the GOAT and why every game has him. It’s because Charizard knows how to end a fight and Spongebob will be on the defensive here. I just don’t see him being able to do a whole lot here.
I dont get what point your even trying to make anymore,
Its the same thing over and over, yes he has been injured but none of those injuries have really effected him or killed him in any kind of way.
Charizard’s AP has not reached what SpongeBob has survived.
Taking away his toon force is not an option. Its not a weapon or an ability, its a concept that surrounds spongebob and his goofy cartoonish character, its pretty much his own rule of what he can do. That being able to bring anything into existence and survive anything with just his will alone.
Thats like saying if we took away all of charizards feats and abilities, it would not make sense.
Its a pokemon who at best could be city block, vs a cartoon god that can do anything he wants.
Agian, SpongeBob being nervous,sad,scared, or angry, or whatever dumb emotion eh may have will not effect his performance with toon force, if anything it only adds to his cartoonish gag.
My point is that combat feats are always better than Toon Force. What is Spongebob going to do when Charizard activates his overheat blast? A single strike will absolutely crush Spongebob into nothing. It’s why he is known as such a top tier fighter. It’s not like we’re taking away Toon Force but it’s not going to help at all here. Toon Force is like reality warping, both are powers that will never help you win a fight.
He will reach his limit quickly as Charizard beats him up. There is no way for Spongebob to counter or keep on going for long.
“My point is that combat feats are always better than Toon Force. What is Spongebob going to do when Charizard activates his overheat blast? A single strike will absolutely crush Spongebob into nothing. It’s why he is known as such a top tier fighter. It’s not like we’re taking away Toon Force but it’s not going to help at all here. Toon Force is like reality warping, both are powers that will never help you win a fight.”
He’ll turn to dust, and reorganize back into his normal body. Toon Force can easily deal with that. He then pulls the string until Charizard turns into nothingness and then he wins. Composite Spongebob wipes the floor with these attack since Toon Force can just continually work its magic for him until he can pull off the string feat.
Yeah but Spongebob will have a limit to how he can reorganize. If Charizard keeps on burning him then Spongebob will lose the will to fight. He just won’t have the sheer ability to pull off a win like that. It would be the end for him. I also think Charizard would resist the string with force of will. Spongebob needs to try and take him out physically to get the win here. Reality warping tricks just aren’t going to work and Charizard will always get the last laugh. It’s why he is That dude
“Yeah but Spongebob will have a limit to how he can reorganize.”
Provide evidence from Spongebob source material and describe the exact limit you’re talking about here. Vaguely gesturing to a limit is not good enough
“If Charizard keeps on burning him then Spongebob will lose the will to fight. He just won’t have the sheer ability to pull off a win like that. It would be the end for him.”
Evidence from Spongebob source material please.
“I also think Charizard would resist the string with force of will. Spongebob needs to try and take him out physically to get the win here.
Reality warping tricks just aren’t going to work and Charizard will always get the last laugh. It’s why he is That dude”
Does Charizard have any abilities that allow him to survive without being able to breath? With the entire universe pulled away by a string there is no atmosphere and Charizard will be unable to breath. Force of will means nothing when the fabric of the universe that keeps him alive is ripped away from him. If you have something that specifically shows him resisting direct reality warping on this scale then show some feats.
I will not accept feats that include:
-Physical attacks Charizard has tanked
– Any speed feats
– Any reality warping feat that is not at least on the level of tearing down the entirety of the universe within seconds.
Only reality warping feats on the level I just described will be accepted. Anything else will be immediately dismissed.
Every ability has a limit though. I call it “juice” but the term changes per verse. I was having a long debate involving Giorno on this and so there is no such thing as infinite anything in fiction. All abilities have a full limit and the size of the limit is what we always have to figure out. So Spongebob would have a limit to his regen somewhere. It just means that it’s more that what we have seen in the show so far but it would happen as Charizard keeps finishing him off. Ultimately that’s when he would take the win.
Spongebob gets depressed a lot
https://giphy.com/gifs/pixelart-spongebob-contemplating-rhUeALlJgHrlEDYSoq
Charizard will shatter his will to live real quick and then that would be the end of him. Spongebob is so crazy it’s hard to say what would break him, only that he would be broken.
Charizard would resist because Spongebob is too weak to stretch the universe while he’s on it.
https://gfycat.com/esteemedunlinedgoldenmantledgroundsquirrel
It would be similar to a lot of smaller Pokemon that tried to move him. Charizard won’t be moved if he doesn’t want to be moved and Spongebob definitely isn’t strong enough to force the issue. It’s why Charizard has such a big advantage here.
“Every ability has a limit though. I call it “juice” but the term changes per verse. I was having a long debate involving Giorno on this and so there is no such thing as infinite anything in fiction. All abilities have a full limit and the size of the limit is what we always have to figure out. So Spongebob would have a limit to his regen somewhere. It just means that it’s more that what we have seen in the show so far but it would happen as Charizard keeps finishing him off. Ultimately that’s when he would take the win.”
Cool can’t wait for you to provide irrelevant scans that don’t demonstrate any relevant limits or their sizes. Does Spongebob have limits, of course he does. Do I think you will be able to demonstrate the ones you’re looking to demonstrate any meaningful capacity in relation to this battle? Based on my initial skimming and the many times i’ve rebutted, debunked and simply ripped apart your arguments, absolutely not.
“Spongebob gets depressed a lot
Charizard will shatter his will to live real quick and then that would be the end of him. Spongebob is so crazy it’s hard to say what would break him, only that he would be broken.”
Awesome, just immediately getting off to the irrelevant scans you dont explain in any convincing detail. Just some blind assertions with no substance. Great.
“Charizard would resist because Spongebob is too weak to stretch the universe while he’s on it.
It would be similar to a lot of smaller Pokemon that tried to move him. Charizard won’t be moved if he doesn’t want to be moved and Spongebob definitely isn’t strong enough to force the issue. It’s why Charizard has such a big advantage here.”
Hey it’s a scan that falls under exactly what I said I wouldn’t accept as a feat.
Quoted verbatim from my comment on April 8th 2023
“I will not accept feats that include:
-Physical attacks Charizard has tanked
– Any speed feats
– Any reality warping feat that is not at least on the level of tearing down the entirety of the universe within seconds.”
You see that first bullet point? Yeah that’s important since this isn’t a normal physical attack, it’s a reality warping situation. That Rattata ramming Charizard is a physical attack that Charizard has tanked. Any feat that is not Charizard tanking a reality warping feat equivalent to tearing down the entire universe within seconds will not be accepted.
Spongebob has a lot of limits. Remember that he needs a ton of water to survive and without it he is toast.
The guy just runs out of water and gets drained quicker than a bowl of cereal in the morning. I’d say it’s a very tangible moment.
Don’t forget that Patrick was able to block his moves and the guy isn’t even very strong
https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-squarepants-fighting-patrick-star-mP33orrRhyJDW
Charizard is absolutely grabbing Spongebob and just knocking him out instantly. The sponge wasn’t built for this kind of damage and is going down immediately. It will be the end of the road for him.
Spongebob does get depressed a lot though. Just look at those scans from earlier. Mans not lasting 5 minutes in the ring with an intimidating fighter like Charizard. Honestly I would take Charizard to solo the verse while he’s at it. I just don’t see what Spongebob characters could really do to him. Their verse isn’t one of the more powerful ones.
All right, you want reality warping? Lets get to it.
Charizard was able to twirl an opponent while in the air with nothing to push off of. This shouldn’t be possible with gravity and yet he did it.
Here Charizard grabbed onto wings that were still coated in light and yet he was able to physically grab it.
Finally he was able to emit gusts of wind from his nostrils so powerful that a Pokemon went flying away
Charizard has Spongebob beat in all strength categories so there’s no way Spongebob can try moving the universe while he’s on it. This guy is too heavy and too powerful
“Spongebob has a lot of limits. Remember that he needs a ton of water to survive and without it he is toast.
The guy just runs out of water and gets drained quicker than a bowl of cereal in the morning. I’d say it’s a very tangible moment.”
I mean by the rules of your blog this is true for all battles:
” Location is at a place hard to describe and yet fair. Think Final Destination from Super Smash Bros but no blast zones. Effectively it’s a place that has water for fish like Nemo, air, forest, land, etc. So there’s no ring-outs here and characters can go all out.”
Spongebob seems to have plenty of water, so this really isn’t a problem for him. In fact the water is a bigger problem for Charizard. Water is a direct weakness of his type and any Fire attacks will instantly be far weaker if not useless, especially if he has to get close to Spongebob. So this point that’s meant to be an issue specifically for Spongebob not only is also an issue for Charizard, but potentially even worse for him.
“Don’t forget that Patrick was able to block his moves and the guy isn’t even very strong”
Has nothing to do with reality warping via the string feat, moving on.
“Spongebob does get depressed a lot though. Just look at those scans from earlier. Mans not lasting 5 minutes in the ring with an intimidating fighter like Charizard. Honestly I would take Charizard to solo the verse while he’s at it. I just don’t see what Spongebob characters could really do to him. Their verse isn’t one of the more powerful ones.”
And yet you’ve been completely incapable of showing anything that demonstrates that Charizard can deal with the string feat, and you now have the new problem of Charizard dealing with a creature that will essentially always be in water, a direct weakness of his that will make his power much harder to utilize.
“Charizard was able to twirl an opponent while in the air with nothing to push off of. This shouldn’t be possible with gravity and yet he did it.”
Honestly whether this is reality warping or not is entirely irrelevant.
Either
A) It’s simply something Charizard can physically do being a flying pokemon with a lot of strength and therefore doesn’t fall under resisting reality warping. So Spongebob wipes with the String feat.
or
B) It counts as some sort of reality warping that isn’t nearly on the level of the string feat ripping apart the universe within seconds. So Spongebob wipes with the String feat.
Either way this feat fails. Go ahead and pick either one if you want, it really doesn’t matter, they both aren’t good enough.
“Here Charizard grabbed onto wings that were still coated in light and yet he was able to physically grab it.”
Either
A) This is something Charizard can do physically because the wings are still there to grab since the wings themselves didn’t become lig-
Yeah no I’m not taking this feat seriously enough to finish out this or the second option. I was being more charitable to the last one, but this one is just silly. Unless the wings just entirely became light, which they obviously didn’t because that would totally throw off a Pokemon’s flight, there’s obviously something still there to physically grab.
“Finally he was able to emit gusts of wind from his nostrils so powerful that a Pokemon went flying away”
This is just a large and physically powerful organism being able to get a lot of breath from their body and force it outwards. It’s exactly like how humans are capable of pushing stuff with air from our noses, just on a much larger scale. This is very obviously not reality warping.
Not even going to bother responding to the last sentence, because it does nothing for you.
I hear what you’re saying regarding the reality warping but at the end of the day I don’t put a whole lot of stock into that compared to physical feats because it still needs to beat the hardened attack move in order to get to the goal. Put it this way, if Charizard is using fire blast and Spongebob tries to pull the universe apart, he would have to get past Charizard’s attack and that is where Spongebob’s weakness is.
He’s just not super strong like that. Take the Seismic Toss I mentioned earlier. If Charizard grabs onto Spongebob then it’s over. He just chokes the guy out or squeezes the life out of him. The heat will also dehydrate him even further.
You’ve got a good point about the water, Spongebob will have a good amount of it in the location to keep the match balanced but at the same time Charizard still has so much better attack options. A quick hyper beam or fire blast would still take the guy down for the count
“I hear what you’re saying regarding the reality warping but at the end of the day I don’t put a whole lot of stock into that compared to physical feats because it still needs to beat the hardened attack move in order to get to the goal. Put it this way, if Charizard is using fire blast and Spongebob tries to pull the universe apart, he would have to get past Charizard’s attack and that is where Spongebob’s weakness is.”
Yeah no, reality warping works beyond the physical world, and physical attacks like that are a part of it. That’s why I specifically said using physical feats to demonstrate Charizard countering reality warping would not be allowed. It being a hardened attack is irrelevant. So I will repost this here:
“If you have something that specifically shows him resisting direct reality warping on this scale then show some feats.
I will not accept feats that include:
-Physical attacks Charizard has tanked
– Any speed feats
– Any reality warping feat that is not at least on the level of tearing down the entirety of the universe within seconds.
Only reality warping feats on the level I just described will be accepted. Anything else will be immediately dismissed.”
That’s what you need to counter this feat. The string feat does not care about hardened attacks, physical feats, whatever you want to call it. It tears down the entire physical universe down nothing within seconds. It is quite literally beyond physical attacks and the physical world. Until you demonstrate that Charizard can counter this in a way that doesn’t go against what I’ve laid out as feats I will not accept, I will continue to make this point.
“He’s just not super strong like that. Take the Seismic Toss I mentioned earlier. If Charizard grabs onto Spongebob then it’s over. He just chokes the guy out or squeezes the life out of him. The heat will also dehydrate him even further.”
Charizard chokes or squeezes him, eventually lets go, Spongebob goes back to normal just fine. Toon Force counters immediately.
“You’ve got a good point about the water, Spongebob will have a good amount of it in the location to keep the match balanced but at the same time Charizard still has so much better attack options. A quick hyper beam or fire blast would still take the guy down for the count”
Fire blast gets countered by Charizard needing to go in the water to go attack Spongebob, and the fire is put out. Hyper beam maybe puts a hole through him, Spongebob reforms back to normal.Toon Force also counters immediately. Hell unless you can show Charizard being able to function underwater, he’ll probably just die from an eventual lack of air. Or he’ll die from water inhalation if he tries to use any of his attacks that require him to open his mouth or just from him having his mouth open a lot of the time anyways. A lot of your feats even show this exact thing happening.
I’m not sure about Spongebob tanking a hyper beam though. It’s one thing to use Toon Force against other comedy characters in Spongebob but a serious Hyper Beam blast? I think that’s going to lay him out. Just look at how the Looney Tunes lost to the aliens in Space Jam. When you’re up against a serious opponent then Toon Force doesn’t apply.
Charizard has the physical advantage which is easily the most important one here. Because meta attacks and reality warping moves can always be stopped eventually but the only way to beat physical is with an even more physical move. You have to be able to break free of Charizard’s moves and that’s tough.
Even if Spongebob goes under the water, Charizard’s Hyper Beam would push through and blast him. So taking the string feat, if Spongebob tries to unwravel the universe, Charizard can just grab the string on his end and push back. Since he’s stronger it should be an immediate counter
“I’m not sure about Spongebob tanking a hyper beam though. It’s one thing to use Toon Force against other comedy characters in Spongebob but a serious Hyper Beam blast? I think that’s going to lay him out. Just look at how the Looney Tunes lost to the aliens in Space Jam. When you’re up against a serious opponent then Toon Force doesn’t apply.”
I don’t care about what Looney Tunes does. I care about you demonstrating that for Spongebob from Spongebob source material. Anything else is irrelevant. Hyper Beam being a serious move doesn’t mean it stops being something that can be humorous when it hits Spongebob. So it blows Spongebob up, Toon Force kicks in and he reforms just fine. Whether Charizard is serious or not does not matter. Period. End of story. This argument will be dismissed out of hand in later comments.
“Charizard has the physical advantage which is easily the most important one here. Because meta attacks and reality warping moves can always be stopped eventually but the only way to beat physical is with an even more physical move. You have to be able to break free of Charizard’s moves and that’s tough.”
You have yet to demonstrate Charizard having any counter to reality warping moves. I’ve shown the criteria for demonstrating this multiple times and I will do so again:
“I will not accept feats that include:
-Physical attacks Charizard has tanked
– Any speed feats
– Any reality warping feat that is not at least on the level of tearing down the entirety of the universe within seconds.
Only reality warping feats on the level I just described will be accepted. Anything else will be immediately dismissed.”
“Even if Spongebob goes under the water, Charizard’s Hyper Beam would push through and blast him. So taking the string feat, if Spongebob tries to unwravel the universe, Charizard can just grab the string on his end and push back. Since he’s stronger it should be an immediate counter”
Show a Hyper Beam going through a large amount of water and pushing through. And by the time Charizard figures out that pulling the string is necessary, Spongebob will have already ripped apart the landscape and he will have very little time to react before he’s screwed. And if it’s powerful enough to rip apart the universe, I very highly doubt he’s got any chance whatsoever to counter it, even if he’s stronger than Spongebob stats wise.
Even if we step away from the Looney Tunes cartoon, toon force characters have been beaten before. This shoe got one shotted by a normal human:
And that’s how most toon force characters would probably go. At the end of the day it’s really just like plot armor but these toon force characters aren’t legitimately powerful. They will all fall just like a normal fighter and the only difference is that they can defy the rules of the world in order to pull off some comebacks. It will delay the inevitable but not stop it.
Spongebob himself has died and lost a lot in the video games where he isn’t always protected by Toon Force. He just isn’t that dude. All characters have their limits and especially toon force ones.
If you want some physical feats check this out from 0:55
Charizard was landing devastating haymakers to Mewtwo and cutting the gap between them. He was going for blood and Spongebob wouldn’t be able to find anything funny about that. He would get folded real quick and not be able to launch a comeback. This is the levels of true power that are needed to win a fight like this.
As for the universe part, as long as Charizard is hanging onto the ground he should be good. Spongebob can’t stop him if Charizard resists because he’s heavier than Spongebob. No Sponge is stopping him.
Hax abilities can always be stopped with power which is why he wins here
“Even if we step away from the Looney Tunes cartoon, toon force characters have been beaten before. This shoe got one shotted by a normal human:’
You mean a toon shoe from a different universe got one shotted by the Dip, a concoction of chemicals literally designed for the express purpose of KILLING TOONS. Charizard has no access to something like that. It’s absolutely laughable that you think he’s comparable in any way.
And here’s a big ol SPOILER ALERT:
Judge Doom isn’t even a human. He’s a toon, specifically the toon that killed the detective’s brother. That’s the whole plot twist of the movie. You couldn’t even get that part right of this completely irrelevant clip.
“And that’s how most toon force characters would probably go. At the end of the day it’s really just like plot armor but these toon force characters aren’t legitimately powerful. They will all fall just like a normal fighter and the only difference is that they can defy the rules of the world in order to pull off some comebacks. It will delay the inevitable but not stop it.”
If you’re basing this on the Dip scene. which you seem to be, then this whole paragraph is irrelevant.
“Spongebob himself has died and lost a lot in the video games where he isn’t always protected by Toon Force. He just isn’t that dude. All characters have their limits and especially toon force ones.”
Irrelevant, this is game mechanics plain and simple. The game needs difficulty, so your character can die, that’s all this is. It has no bearing on Spongebob’s Toon Force as a whole.
“Charizard was landing devastating haymakers to Mewtwo and cutting the gap between them. He was going for blood and Spongebob wouldn’t be able to find anything funny about that. He would get folded real quick and not be able to launch a comeback. This is the levels of true power that are needed to win a fight like this.”
Charizard hits Mewtwo physically with his moves, this is irrelevant to the string feat, and is not going to do any lasting damage on Spongebob.
“As for the universe part, as long as Charizard is hanging onto the ground he should be good. Spongebob can’t stop him if Charizard resists because he’s heavier than Spongebob. No Sponge is stopping him.”
“I will not accept feats that include:
-Physical attacks Charizard has tanked
– Any speed feats
– Any reality warping feat that is not at least on the level of tearing down the entirety of the universe within seconds.
Only reality warping feats on the level I just described will be accepted. Anything else will be immediately dismissed.”
I’m tired of this. Adhere to the list I’ve provided, as it is actually relevant to reality warping abilities as i’ve detailed multiple times here. Charizard’s physical strength is irrelevant, he has to have demonstrated the ability resist REALITY WARPING abilities on the same level of what I described for the string feat.
And even IF we do go along with your assumption that this is a matter of physicality, Spongebob was able to rip apart an entire city’s worth of buildings with little effort. He was capable of ripping apart the entire universe with and innumerable number of asteroids, moons, planets, and suns, which would be an utterly insane amount of weight.
Our moon alone would weigh 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds.
Mercury weighs 7.278 × 10^23 pounds
Venus weighs 1.073 × 10^25 pounds
Earth weighs 1.31660063 × 10^25 pounds
Jupiter weighs 4.18437374 × 10^27 pounds
Saturn weighs 1.253 × 10^27 pounds
Uranus weighs 1.91405336 × 10^26 pounds
Neptune weighs 2.25753356 × 10^26 pounds
That is the weight of just the planet and Earth’s moon alone. And you want to tell me that a 243.6 pound Pokemon is going to have the strength and weight to compare to these planets? Some of which reach over an octillion pounds? Even by the standards you’re talking about where weight is a relevant issue you’re off by many, many orders of magnitude here.
“Hax abilities can always be stopped with power which is why he wins here”
A video about a character from a totally different universe, irrelevant to this battle and will therefore be dismissed.
I forgot that the guy ended up being a toon. I admit that’s a bit rough but maybe you can make the case that anyone can become a Toon with the right amount of opportunity and ability. In that case it would all track and still work out in the end. I think we still need to consider that toon force isn’t going placed long term.
Spongebob can mess around but once things get serious then Charizard is taking him to town. Lets think about this for a minute. Spongebob resetting the universe doesn’t really make sense because everyone was around after that. Most likely what that really means is it was just a quick 4th wall break to the audience but it didn’t really mean much outside of that. I think that works out well and also explains why he never did that to escape danger afterwards.
The feats should always make sense when breaking them down and if not then there has to be a rational explanation behind them. I think this is the explanation. He’s not built for this and Charizard would be able to crush him. The 243 pound Charizard could just punch the life out of Spongebob and make it look easy. Spongebob wouldn’t find it funny for long and that’s when he would get taken out.
“I forgot that the guy ended up being a toon. I admit that’s a bit rough but maybe you can make the case that anyone can become a Toon with the right amount of opportunity and ability. In that case it would all track and still work out in the end. I think we still need to consider that toon force isn’t going placed long term.”
This is just a cop out because you got called out on your lack of media literacy. Even if you are correct that everyone can become a Toon, that doesn’t mean everyone is a Toon. So this whole paragraph is pointless.
“Spongebob can mess around but once things get serious then Charizard is taking him to town. Lets think about this for a minute. Spongebob resetting the universe doesn’t really make sense because everyone was around after that. Most likely what that really means is it was just a quick 4th wall break to the audience but it didn’t really mean much outside of that. I think that works out well and also explains why he never did that to escape danger afterwards.”
I really don’t care what your rationalizations are for why you personally don’t think this makes sense. It’s a cartoon with a wacky sponge that can do all sorts of ridiculous stuff. I’m not going to sit here and let you get lost in the sauce about some 4th wall breaking bs. We see him use a string to rip apart the universe until there’s basically nothing less. Period, end of story. These rationalizations that aren’t supported by anything other than your own speculations will not be taken into consideration.
“The feats should always make sense when breaking them down and if not then there has to be a rational explanation behind them. I think this is the explanation. He’s not built for this and Charizard would be able to crush him. The 243 pound Charizard could just punch the life out of Spongebob and make it look easy. Spongebob wouldn’t find it funny for long and that’s when he would get taken out.”
Again basically the same problem as the last paragraph. And Spongebob finding funny is irrelevant. It’s whether the situation could be funny and given all the physical moves that could result in some rather humorous situations I don’t find this paragraph convincing.
Yeah I’ll have to concede the first point. Ultimately everyone becoming a toon won’t help enough here.
All right so for the string part, Spongebob just isn’t built for this. If he tries to pull the universe apart, Charizard will just be there when it reforms. He wouldn’t find it funny so then there wouldn’t be much Spongebob could do about it. Alternately Charizard may just grab the string and pull himself. He’s stronger so it would work into his favor at that point. Charizard is stronger by just about every metric which is why I don’t see Spongebob winning this one. Spongebob is strong to be sure and not someone I would take lightly but at the same time it will still be his loss here.
Charizard would just keep attacking until Spongebob goes down and that guy doesn’t have the raw strength needed to win
“All right so for the string part, Spongebob just isn’t built for this. If he tries to pull the universe apart, Charizard will just be there when it reforms. He wouldn’t find it funny so then there wouldn’t be much Spongebob could do about it. Alternately Charizard may just grab the string and pull himself. He’s stronger so it would work into his favor at that point. Charizard is stronger by just about every metric which is why I don’t see Spongebob winning this one. Spongebob is strong to be sure and not someone I would take lightly but at the same time it will still be his loss here.”
Whether Charizard find it funny is irrelevant. It’s about whether the situation itself is humorous or not that matters. And a sponge being able to pull a string and destroy the universe can easily be made humorous. So nothing in this paragraph matters whatsoever.
Yeah but Spongebob will find it less and less funny the whole time as he gradually takes the L. Charizard can just laugh and pull on the string too. He’s much stronger than Spongebob so this would stop the guy from ever really doing anything. He would be completely outgunned and outmatched. Just wouldn’t be a chance to do much of anything here
“Yeah but Spongebob will find it less and less funny the whole time as he gradually takes the L. Charizard can just laugh and pull on the string too. He’s much stronger than Spongebob so this would stop the guy from ever really doing anything. He would be completely outgunned and outmatched. Just wouldn’t be a chance to do much of anything here”
I’ve already addressed Spongebob not finding it funny multiple times, I’ve addressed this with Charizard as well, that was literally the last comment I made before this one.
And you literally just said that Charizard wouldn’t find it funny. So now he does? Stay consistent Dreager. And as for strength, I just showed you how much weight Spongebob must have dealt with if we’re operating off of physicality and not just Toon Force allowing him to win (which you have still utterly failed at doing.)
Option A:If we’re running off of Toon Force, you haven’t given any helpful counterarguments demonstrating how Charizard can resist something like it. You’ve based your argument entirely off of physical feats that don’t at all apply to Toon Force.
Option B: If we’re running off of true physicality and pulling that string one way or the other is based off of pure strength then Spongebob dominates. You have yet to demonstrate that Charizard could compare to the absurd amount of weight Spongebob could pull based on this assumption of the ability.
We’re not talking about billions or trillions, quadrillions, quintillions or even sextillions of pounds. We’re talking 1.91405336 × 10^26 just for Uranus alone which means multiplying it by 10 to the 26th power which is many orders of magnitude beyond any strength feat you’ve shown for Charizard.
Your arguments fail whether you choose Option A or Option B. The feats you’ve provided are either irrelevant for the former or not even remotely a whisper of the same league for Option B.
I think Charizard wouldn’t find it funny but he’d pretend if needed if Spongebob insisted on keeping the jokes coming. I’m still not convinced that he could be effected by the toon force though. That’s where he would ask if his battle started to slip away from him. I don’t see Spongebob being able to pull that off though. Okay so what do we know about Spongebob? He’s someone who isn’t afraid to use pure technique and skill to keep Charizard at bay but he tends to lose his cool and panic a whole lot. Customers bring him to tears on the regular and bullies beat him up.
So if CHarizard takes a tough tone with him then Spongebob will stop having so much fun and will start to unravel the Toon Force. I would say Option B won’t wokr here because Spongebob has consistently been portrayed as weak physically. It would be a really crazy outlier for him to suddenly be pulling apart universes and such.
So I think we fall back on the reality warping and that’s where Charizard would start to pull away here. A few good Seismic Tosses should knock the fight out of Spongebob. He may reform at first but gradually he would give up on this dream because he doesn’t see any way out. He would go for the easiest way to end the conflict and that would be to just take the loss. His regeneration is only as good as his willpower which isn’t enough here.
“I think Charizard wouldn’t find it funny but he’d pretend if needed if Spongebob insisted on keeping the jokes coming. I’m still not convinced that he could be effected by the toon force though. That’s where he would ask if his battle started to slip away from him. I don’t see Spongebob being able to pull that off though. Okay so what do we know about Spongebob? He’s someone who isn’t afraid to use pure technique and skill to keep Charizard at bay but he tends to lose his cool and panic a whole lot. Customers bring him to tears on the regular and bullies beat him up.”
Do you think Toon Force works like a standup comedy routine where Spongebob needs to actively make jokes for Toon Force to function. Toon Force functions beyond whether Charizard or Spongebob thinks it’s funny. It’s about the situation possibly being humorous. Not whether a character(s) specifically think its funny. I really want you to understand this so I will repeat it three times more:
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
Whether Spongebob loses his cool or not is irrelevant to how Toon Force works. It will still work regardless of Spongebob’s personality.
Spongebob panicking is irrelevant to how Toon Force works. It will still work regardless of Spongebob’s personality.
Customers bringing him to tears is irrelevant to how Toon Force works. It will still work regardless of Spongebob’s personality.
Him getting beat up doesn’t make Toon Force stop working. It doesn’t make Charizard any more capable of putting down Spongebob for good.
“So if CHarizard takes a tough tone with him then Spongebob will stop having so much fun and will start to unravel the Toon Force. I would say Option B won’t wokr here because Spongebob has consistently been portrayed as weak physically. It would be a really crazy outlier for him to suddenly be pulling apart universes and such.”
For the Toon Force point let’s repeat it three more times:
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
As for your response to Option B, Dreager either you work off of composite rules or you don’t. Composites take all feats from all continuities and that’s going to include the one where Spongebob is pulling off absurd feats like pulling apart the universe. So it being an outlier is not an excuse to dismiss it. I’m not the biggest fan of composites, but if you’re GOING to use them than be consistent.
“So I think we fall back on the reality warping and that’s where Charizard would start to pull away here. A few good Seismic Tosses should knock the fight out of Spongebob. He may reform at first but gradually he would give up on this dream because he doesn’t see any way out. He would go for the easiest way to end the conflict and that would be to just take the loss. His regeneration is only as good as his willpower which isn’t enough here.”
Charizard uses Seismic Toss, Spongebob gets tossed through the air, maybe turns into a pancake looking thing, reforms, rinse and repeat. Very easy thing for Toon Force to deal with.
And once again since I really want this to stick:
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It does not matter whether either character considers something funny for Toon Force to work
It’s really not dependent on the character at all, it’s a property of the character from their creators. And whether Spongebob has some arbitrary amount of “willpower” isn’t really relevant either to the regen of Toon Force.
I get what you’re saying but Toon Force is a lot like stand up. If the opponent isn’t buying it then it’s going to fail real quick. Let me quickly go back to Space Jam for a minute here. The villains didn’t buy into the humor and so they started crushing the tunes. That’s exactly what’ll happen with Charizard. He won’t find the jokes funny so he’ll just start crushing Spongebob.
After getting dunked a few times Spongebob would be down for the count. Spongebob doesn’t have the power or the fortitude to take shots like that for long. Each one will dent his ego and he’ll be in tears before long. The Toon Force would just stop working real quick. For the spinning the universe part, it still means Spongebob has to try to physically pull it off and Charizard weighs too much for that.
Spongebob has no real way to damage Charizard and isn’t fast enough to escape. His Toon Force could help him absorb some blows for a little while but not long enough. He’ll pretty much just give up and once he gives up mentally, the toon force will abandon him physically
“I get what you’re saying but Toon Force is a lot like stand up. If the opponent isn’t buying it then it’s going to fail real quick. Let me quickly go back to Space Jam for a minute here. The villains didn’t buy into the humor and so they started crushing the tunes. That’s exactly what’ll happen with Charizard. He won’t find the jokes funny so he’ll just start crushing Spongebob.”
Oh I didn’t know the villains in Space Jam managed to kill the Loony Tunes characters by physically crushing them. Oh wait they didn’t? The Looney Tunes reformed back to normal just fine? Yeah that’s what I thought. Toon Force didn’t fail there. They got physically crushed, and Toon Force made it humorous even when the villains and the Looney Tunes didn’t find it funny. The video you provided demonstrates this. Once again you’ve diminished your own argument with your own source.
“After getting dunked a few times Spongebob would be down for the count. Spongebob doesn’t have the power or the fortitude to take shots like that for long. Each one will dent his ego and he’ll be in tears before long. The Toon Force would just stop working real quick. For the spinning the universe part, it still means Spongebob has to try to physically pull it off and Charizard weighs too much for that.”
Again this is based upon the paragraph above, which disproves itself via a previous video provided. Anything about Spongebob getting dunked on is irrelevant.
And as for Charizard let’s repeat this over and over again until you get it.
Charizard is not heavier than the universe
Charizard is not heavier than the universe
Charizard is not heavier than the universe
A single PLANET is going to be heavier than him let alone the entire universe.
And again, none of this even matters because this is a reality warping feat anyways. You have yet to provide anything that shows Charizard resisting reality warping on the level of the destruction of the entire universe in seconds.
The only reason I’m even engaging in the weight aspect of this is to cover more bases.
“Spongebob has no real way to damage Charizard and isn’t fast enough to escape. His Toon Force could help him absorb some blows for a little while but not long enough. He’ll pretty much just give up and once he gives up mentally, the toon force will abandon him physically”
You have completely failed to demonstrate that Toon Force is going to fail for any reason. You have completely failed to demonstrate that him mentally giving up means that Toon Force abandons him physically. This is something you have made up to discount Toon Force, and honestly I think it’s simply because you don’t like it.
Yeah but the Looney Tunes did get completely destroyed the whole time. They may have eventually formed but only because the enemies stopped since they were focused on the basketball game. Me personally? I feel like they would have destroyed the Looney Tunes otherwise. It’s why I’d say Toon Force has severe limits. You have to be able to defend yourself but when your feats are toon instead of physical it gets really difficult.
I will definitely admit that I don’t like Toon Force much or take it that seriously but that’s because it’s just too flawed. Even Strawhat Luffy got weaker once he started using Toon Force because of the downsides:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/d/dc/Gear_5_Wears_Off.png/revision/latest?cb=20230625141425
Charizard may not be heavier than the universe but nothing can happen to him physically while he’s on the playing field and in terms of durability, he’s above anything Spongebob could throw at him. So the weight may not be crucial but Spongebob still has nothing that can hurt him before he eventually runs out of energy
“Yeah but the Looney Tunes did get completely destroyed the whole time. They may have eventually formed but only because the enemies stopped since they were focused on the basketball game. Me personally? I feel like they would have destroyed the Looney Tunes otherwise. It’s why I’d say Toon Force has severe limits. You have to be able to defend yourself but when your feats are toon instead of physical it gets really difficult.”
What you think personally is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Toon Force is shown to work exactly in the way it was supposed to work.
“I will definitely admit that I don’t like Toon Force much or take it that seriously but that’s because it’s just too flawed. Even Strawhat Luffy got weaker once he started using Toon Force because of the downsides:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/d/dc/Gear_5_Wears_Off.png/revision/latest?cb=20230625141425”
Flawed by your own standards that you cannot consistently demonstrate in any meaningful capacity. Every example you talk about is either irrelevant, completely the opposite of what you attempt to argue, or both.
“Charizard may not be heavier than the universe but nothing can happen to him physically while he’s on the playing field and in terms of durability, he’s above anything Spongebob could throw at him. So the weight may not be crucial but Spongebob still has nothing that can hurt him before he eventually runs out of energy”
Raw physical durability is irrelevant, the string feat is a reality warping feat. This is why I have repeatedly asked you to demonstrate Charizard dealing with a REALITY WARPING FEAT ON THE LEVEL OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE STRING FEAT.
The only reason weight was even brought up was for the express purpose of covering more bases in the argument. I said as much in my previous comment.
Oh so now your making the excuse that spongebob cant heal all the time, When he pretty much has to heal wounds like almost every day of his life?
Again toonforce does not deactivate if spongebob is sad,depressed or angry or scared or whatever, its a concept that surrounds him that will forever be with him because of his stupid imagination to just will anything into existence and do whatever he wants.
And explain to me, how in the honest fuck is charizard supposed to resist a guy who can do anything he wants and pretty much break the 4th wall and destroy reality on a daily basis.
What proof do you have that charizard can use sheer will to resist something like that.
Spongebob proved he could,But charizard? meh
Hold up, lets wait a minute here real quick. Spongebob has to heal a lot but rarely if ever in a combat situation. It’s a lot different and less stressful if you’re healing from natural disasters than an attack meant to hurt you. Spongebob hasn’t had to deal with blood lust and any of that stuff. trust me, he’s not built for that. Why do you think they call him SpongeBOB and not SpongeChamp or something like that?
All abilities tend to stop working or get weaker when you’re sad and depressed. Look at Spiderman in the Spider-Man 2 movie. The guy couldn’t do much of anything. He was getting dominated in the trenches and couldn’t use his abilities.
Charizard could resist the reality destroying and 4th wall stuff because it’s in his nature. nobody can cause you to stop existing if you don’t want to. It’s why free will tends to negate reality warping and stuff like that. Don’t forget that I even mentioned in the blog battle rules how willpower is absolute and stops those kinds of shenanigans. Charizard has proven his mental fortitude many times like being able to defy Ash when the Pokeball should have forced him to help out.
No, spongebob has healed and survived all those feats we mentioned during fights.
Skip to around 38:00 for a bit of an example
a giant guy that’s ready to kill you and your friend, and all spongebob and Patrick could think about was having fun.
For spongebob getting sad or depressed that’s not the case, i already had shown you how the dude used his tears as a weapon to destroy stuff.
So no emotions cant effect toonforce, well they can but in a funny comical way of course, and one that will assist spongebob easily.
Why would charizards nature have something to do with him resisting reality warping effects or straight up cartoon bs, if somebody can simply erase you from existence, the only way to resist is if you have done it yourself already, either that or just die, you fail to show how charizard can even do this nor if he has the knowledge to do this.
Charizards will is strong but he cant use sheer will to forcefully negate reality warping abilities,
Pokemon are not forced to help their trainer even if there caught or owned by them.
Charizard did not obey ash simply because he did not respect him enough to do so.
If your looking for a logical reason, its probably because for one, he was over levelled at the time when he defeated a bunch of exeggutor, or the fact that ash did not legitimately get all 8 gym badges at the time.
Though its mostly because Charizard needed to be disciplined, hence why he sent Charizard off to some training ground.
Those durability feats were pretty good for Spongebob but it’s still nothing next to what Charizard will be doing to him. Charizard will be handing absolute Ls all day long. His Seismic Toss will be doing a ton of damage and of course don’t forget the flamethrower. Spongebob will be completely out of luck against those kinds of abilities. He isn’t used to being taken down like that.
In each of those fights it was still all fun and games but here Charizard is going for the dub. No mercy, no quarter given. Even Spongebob would be broken after such a moment. Trust me on this. I like Spongebob and even I have to say that he would be completely overwhelmed here. It would just be the end for him. He’s not built for this. He would be overwhelmed emotionally and physically
For fuck sake giorno coulduse rtz as long as he needed, and you yet need to provide evidence for giorno running out or from the jojo source material otherwise i will simply ignore whatever evidence you bring
Same goes with spongebob, his regeneration simply can happen as many times as he wants it too. even when sad or depressed, so really it would not matter.
Spider man may have lost his powers temporarily due to psychosomatic but when spongebob was upset, sad or depressed, it only fueled the gag of him being a cartoon.
If you even watched when spongebob was sad or depressed you could still see toon force related things happening with him.
And here is the big question.
Why would spongebob be sad and depressed by fighting charizard, He had fought foes who were VERY serious about harming him and he either found it as a joke or simply ignored it.
He ignored a guy punching him all day, whats stopping him from doing the same, unless of course we need a whole gag sequence.
Everything has a limit though. Lets call it juice for now but even Giorno will run out of it. He can use RTZ for a while but it only delays the inevitable. Ultimately he will still be going down and that would be the end for him because Sasuke would just use the chidori. Actually wrong thread for a bit there.
For Spongebob, he would definitely be losing the will to fight here. Charizard’s aura is too menacing. It’s one thing to be fighting some drunk guy or what not, but a magical creature trying to end you? Nahhhh bro that’s just too much. It would be the end of Spongebob as we know it and then that’s game over. Trust me on this…trust meeeeeeee.
Okay in all seriousness though, Spongebob has gotten sad many times and in the fights we saw there it was more of a gag so he wasn’t getting nervous. Throw in Charizard going in at 100% and that’s it. Spongebob would quickly see just how painful the whole thing is. He wouldn’t even want to get up at that point because that would be it for him. Charizard has more attack options and better stats overall which helps a lot here.
i know your stupid and all and you must have not learned what a fictional story is but still, the fact is that in fiction, sometimes characters don’t have any juice or limit. Especially if you cant even prove the limit other then saying “there’s a limit”
Charizards aura menacing? yet previously we saw a fucking rattata charge straight at him. Sure it got destroyed but no aura is pushing back anyone from fighting charizard.
Also what aura? Charizard has never had an aura, he ain’t lucario
Magical creature trying to kill him?
Yet spongebob has faced a king of the sea and a ghost, and a dragon before.
Whatever bs that happens in spongebob.
Charizard will simply be another character that spongebob annoys.
Like i said, just cause he can get sad or depressed does not mean all his abilities suddenly go away, in fact it just adds to his comedic effect and cartoonish gag.
One time when he cried, he flooded all of bikini bottom. which was already filled with water
How?
I don’t fucking know its spongebob he can do almost everything.
the point is, even if spongebob would get depressed form fighting charizard, it simply wont stop his cartoonish gag.
IF he even gets depressed from fighting charizard at all.
He has fought people that were serious about killing him and he treated it like a game..
Brooooo that’s cap and you know it. I’m one of the smartest debaters of all time. Why do you think they call me the debating King? It’s not just because of the way I throw in my arguments but it’s how I do them. I always support all my claims and I actually came up with the term juice. It’s a real thing though and I only brought that up after thinking about it for a while so it’s not out of my hat or anything. it’s just one of those things ya know? Trust me on this one, trust meeeeeeee.
Charizard is menacing though. That Ratata was risking his life there and I think we have to recognize what a chance he was taking. Spongebob fights people in comedic settings but when it’s serious he folds like an omelette. Trust me he’s not built for this. Very few characters are and it’s the limits of being a gag character. At the end of the day a gag character will never defeat a serious one. It’s just not happening and you can really trust me on that one.
its a fact that your stupid if you cant realize the concept of a fictional story, most people learn that around elementary school
Nobody here calls you the debating king, But i have seen people call you shit at debating, and tbh there not wrong
All you do is say speed =Instant win and make some random shit up that you cant provide evidence too, and when you do its either not from the source material or is completely wrong and taken out of context.
There is no way im trusting you
I would not trust you with simple directions
spongebob turns just about everything into a comedic setting, I showed proof of 2 literal dudes hellbent on killing spongebob and patrick, like they turned them into cement, and spongebob and patrick were laughing, not to mention that they were still alive during that process
And hell later in that compilation video, Spongebob and patrick had beat them, in their sleep.
It does not matter how serious charizard will be, spongebob will only see it as another game
Even if spongebob was turned into an omelette, he would still be alive and would return to normal later only to beat charizard in a very weird but comedic way.
Hey yooo lets not take shots at elementary school. I was homeschooled anyway so I got to see through the fog and level up immediately! I can’t pull up any sources on the debating king part but I sure felt like one for all those years. Maybe I was mistaken but I dunno about that. I jut felt like I had it all together ya know?
Speed does = the win in over 90% of fights so I do feel like I made the right decision there. I won’t make stuff up but I will always go straight for the win. I don’t hold back and I never surrender. It’s just not part of my nature but of course I have overturned many battles after the comments showed me the way. It’s just that in most battles I have already thought of everything so it’s not new information.
Trust me, I’m good with directions though. As for the feats, they were good but you saw my gifs right where Spongebob got super scared and couldn’t retaliate? That’s the kind of fear that Charizard will be putting into him. My mans Spongebob just won’t be able to handle that kind of power and his regen can only take him so far. Charizard is about to scare the living daylights out of him and launch the ultimate counter attack.
Was not taking a shot at elementary schools, im just saying that a majority of people who went to school already know that fictional stories are not real and that they dont have to relate to real life things.
If you were homeschooled then thats fine, but did your parents (or a tutor) ever teach you the difference between fiction and non fiction?
I dont fucking care about your anime speech about how you never give up
That does not prove the point that speed can win 90% of battles, it cant and even then spongebob has a feat that puts him above charizard, to be able to untie the string that destroyed the universe means he had to travel and follow that string, which he did and he did this in a few seconds.
Could not retaliate? There was nothing to retaliate too it was just another uh oh theres a problem and lets fix it in this episode kind of way
Alreayd showed feats of spongebob fighting scary foes yet not succumbing to fear,
Spongebob would probably just see charizard as a dragon which spongebob has faced before.
Aight fair enough but I like to think I know the difference. I just don’t always accept them. Like to me infinite can’t exist even in fiction because it’s just not done. Like seriously I know that might sound a bit crazy but there are limits even in fiction.
I thought my speech was pretty good tbh.
Spongebob was getting wrecked in some of those clips though and none of those guys were even close to Charizard in overall power level. That’s why it’s hard to see Spongebob winning. If Spongebob tries to pull on that string Charizard is just going to grab onto the other end and pull harder. He’ll always be stronger so that really shouldn’t be too hard. Charizard is stronger so he just counters anything Spongebob tries to do.
You have not even explained why infinite cant exist in a fictional world
Saying it just cant is not a valid excuse and will simply be ignored
A fictional world is a world where the author can write a story about whatever he or she likes, It does not have to be realistic, it does not have to have real life properties, The author can do whatever they want and anything they imagine in their story.
It does not matter if its not a huge hit like a dragon ball or the avengers, Its a story they created and whatever goes, goes.
Your speech proves nothing about how speed wins 90% of battles
I dont know whta you mean by wrecked, in a majority of those clips spongebob survived the whole thing and left unfazed by it. Even if the guy’s beating them up dont have toon force thats not the point im trying to make, the point is is that spongebob wont just quake in fear by charizard, even againts he most toughest of opponents he simply is just gonna laugh it off
He would realistically not care about how serious charizard is about killing him, He would just try to have fun, while also killing charizard in the process through some weird and wacky way
Okay so it’s a bit complicated but infinite can’t exist because it implies that there is a limit somewhere and that it has actually been defined by someone. The reason that can’t work is because we will never know the limit. For example, Papa Bear is the pinnacle of power in the Berenstein Bears and anyone in his verse will tell you that nobody can be stronger than him. He’s infinitely strong. But when you throw him into a much more powerful verse like Kirby then he would be bottom tier.
So we can’t say anyone has infinite strength because there will always be a stronger verse. That’s the way I see it at least. You have to keep on trying to get stronger and that’s why there is no concept of infinite. An author can say something but I have to override them when they try getting a bit too bold.
I’d say Spongebob was getting wrecked because he was. He may have survived each time but not without significant mental and physical scarring. These were just normal joes too. Throw someone like Charizard in and it’s about to get messy. Trust me on this. Trust…meeeeee. Charizard has more firepower at his disposal than any Spongebob character and he’s not afraid to use it. He would just burn the life out of Spongebob and that would be game over. He has the speed advantage too.
What the fuck does the Bernstein bears have anything to do with the concept of infinity?
Papa bear has never been referred to as someone with pinnacle power or that he is infinitely strong
If they have not proved that they have some source of infinite within them then they simply dont have infinite power
I never said infinite strength does not mean You instant win, because yes there will always be another verse out there thats stronger, but 90% of the time they have something infinite as well.
The author is the ruler of their own story, the author can make their story however they please even if it breaks the laws of physics and science, its their fictional world and story, they can do whatever they want, i can make a story where i have a character thats the strongest in all of existence, i can do that cause its what i have implemented in my story and thats how i want my character or story written
sure it may not be the best character and frankly it would be a boring character but non the less my character would have infinite power or whatever because i say so, because i made the character with infinite power in my story
You dont have to create a story that will get you billions of dollars and get you more popular, Thats not the point.
Like i said spongebob has survived close contact with the sun, burning him wont do anything
A majority of these “normal joes” from spongebob come from the same universe where everybody can somehow survive anything and be just fine afterwards.
Charizard would simply be another funny dragon spongebob would meet before evntually killing charizard in some weird spongebob way
I’m gonna defend my Berenstain Bears example real quick and here’s why. In every verse there is someone who thinks that he is in fact the strongest. Look at Dr. Stone where Tsukasa is the strongest primate alive or something like that. That’s why infinity can’t exist because there are always limits. Just like Papa Bear is the strongest in his verse but would be the weakest in another so it is that there is always someone stronger.
So for Spongebob he can keep on manipulating reality but ultimately he’s going to be taking a big hit here. He’s not built for this, trust me on that. He would have some laughs at first but a the damage started piling up he would find it less and less funny. It’s why nobody wants to fight Charizard for too long because it just starts to get on your nerves and make you a bit jumpy.
He can skirt the lines of reality for a little while but ultimately Charizard would burn him. Reality warping is a way to prolong the inevitable but not to prevent it.
Replying to the second comment dreager made
Clearly you dont even know your own evidence
That shoe died in something thats called “The Dip”
apparently this dip in that universe is capable of killing toon characters
And specifically toon characters
But since charizard does not have the dip
he cant use it so therefore irrelevant
The second piece of evidence is from a game, spongebob dying is a game mechanic its not real to his canon feats, even so the dude comes back to life afterwards
Spongebob when pulling the string erased the entire universe including the ground hell he even erased people and planets, charizard cant stay safe
Charizards physical attacks dont matter, i dont care if mega charizard was hitting mewtwo, spongebob could take all that punishment easily given how he can just simply ignore being hurt
I already told your stupid ass that thats how DRAGON BALLS powers work not pokemons or spongebob
why the hell are you bringing it up here?
I get what you’re saying about the Dip. That’s pretty fair on that one. And gameplay mechanics are pretty rough but I can use the same argument for the string. Everyone came back to life afterwards so did it really even happen? That kind of feat is more like a 4th wall break, I wouldn’t consider it to be any real powers. Charizard wouldn’t just be erased because that was just a gag. Spongebob could maybe play off the damage he takes like a gag for a while there but that won’t work for very long. Eventually he will be going down for the count and then that will be it for him.
Dragon Ball logic works everywhere tbh because that’s what I had been saying for years so I felt vindicated when Super took my side on it
Your talking about a world where nothing is normal, and no characters are normal, of course the universe would come back, and yes it really did happen
It does not matter how serious charizard may be, spongebob has fought serious foes and yet still he manages to hang out, if the dude can survive being disintegrated then at this point its impossible for charizard to win
Dragon ball logic cant work on every verse, idc if you feel like it should, it does not
Cope
In dragon ball, the greater power level can overwrite almost anything the weaker one does, but in other verses thats not always the case
It’s true that Spongebob world is a bit different from a normal one to put is mildly but I still have doubts on the scene. It seems more like a complete toon force/comedy moment but not one to be taken seriously, much like Bugs Bunny or something like that.
Even if Spongebob could try and reset the universe, Charizard would just tank it since he wouldn’t find that funny. Then we’re back to square 1 except it’s even worse because now Charizard is mad and will be out for blood. Imagine getting slashed by a fighter this powerful? That would be it for Spongebob. He can only find the humor in things for so long before he is inevitably taken down for the count.
See the problem is what you think, your just saying, meh its probably just some coincidence yet you have no evidence to back up why thats the case, and keep in mind that kind of feat is consistent in spongebobs canon, like for example when spongebob and patrick could rewrite their own story
It does not matter if charizard finds it funny, if the whole situation is funny and goofy in general then toon force will still work
like for example squidward, squidward is meant to be the serious character in the show, yet he is still affected by what spongebob does. He finds nothing what spongebob does funny yet he still comes out of whatever mess spongebob had done into a burned pile of ash, dismembered or beaten up, sure he survives but thats due to the fact that he is a toon force character too, just a serious one at that.
So if somebody like squidward who finds nothing of what spongebob does funny, then charizard not laughing at what spongebob does will not effect his toonforce at all.
and its not just squidward, mrs puff is always fed up with spongebob’s terrible driving, they keep going through events that would most definetly kill them, yet mrs puff finds none of it funny but yet spongebobs toon force still works
theres also plankton, his only goal is to find the krabby patty secret formula, he has no time for spongebob’s silly games and therfore is serious about it. but does spongebob’s toon force stop working? Nope, even if you remove his brain from his body, burn spongebob to ash or whatever, he still comes back alive and still causes harm to those around them
Charizard would only be another victim to spongebob’s goofy goober nonsense,
charizard will fail because he is fighting something that cant be killed and has completely destroyed their whole universe or rewrote it to his own liking
I get what you’re saying about Squidward. You’re right he doesn’t find it funny but at the same time he still operates as the straight man of the group which is still a comedic role of its own. So that’s why he is caught up in it. He’s not actually trying to fight against it or anything. Now if he did try to fight against it? Well then that would be it, Spongebob wouldn’t be able to stop it.
Lets talk about the man himself, Spongebob. He is powerful to be sure but what holds him back here is really time and opportunity. Sure he can regenerate a whole lot but this fluctuates based on his mental state and what he is doing. If he doesn’t have the power to back it up then he would be going down. We’ve seen Spongebob’s will break many times before like when he’s bullied at the krabby patties shop or in the boxing ring. He gets beaten up a whole lot over the years so imagine once Charizard is beating him up? Spongebob will probably be crying and will forget how to fight and Charizard will end things. It’s why I will always go with the character with physical abilities over the toon force fighters. The latter just don’t have the same resources and drive to win because they’re always just overriding reality so they don’t have to come to terms with the proper future.
He has fought agiants it multiple times, sometimes its successful because he too is a toon force character and therfore posseses similar if not equal ability to spongebob, and sometimes squidward gets the short end of the stick and gets fried but still ends up fine
So your logic for charizards win is that spongebob loses hope? think to yourself about that, about how utterly dumb that sounds
Even if spongebob is sad, his toon force still works
like i said earlier, with his tears he somehow flooded all of bikini bottem, and sometimes his tears were so strong that they managed to pierce walls like its a laser.
Regardless of his emotions, his toon force would still be there
Yeah but Spongebob loses hope all the time so it’s not that farfetched. We’ve seen him packed up by all kinds of opponents in the past and they were all significantly weaker than Charizard. So just throw out a few slashes, fire attacks, etc and that’s it for Spongebob. His regen isn’t unlimited and he has no ways of actually hurting Charizard which is why he goes down here
provide evidence of spongebob’s regen not being unlimited and provide evidence of spongebob’s toon force being effected by his mental state
even though technically him being sad still counts as toon force
The regen not being unlimited is an easy one, it’s impossible for anything to be unlimited. As for the Toon Force stuff, it always a thing. Here’s Luffy after using G5 too much tired him out
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fox4MUPXoAAC97R.jpg:large
Same thing would happen to my man Spongebob
In fiction it is possible, because fiction is made up, and spongebob throughout his entire show has shown that has been able to regenerate from every form of damage
Luffy does not have toon force, if you looked that up online im gonna tell you right now that luffy does not have toon force
Sure in his fight againts kaido he acts sort of like a toon force character, but literally every attack luffy had used were literally just rubber based
Which is literally what his devil fruit is supposed to do, his devil fruit is literally revolved around a body of rubber
His ability in gear 5 is being able to turn stuff into rubber while remaining as the purest form of rubber while in gear 5
That kinda makes his movement and fighting style seem cartoonish.
Toon force characters are different though
It makes the character seem indestructible, immortal, and well being a gag character. The thing is that Luffy has shown decently consistent power ceilings and scaling throughout the series of one piece and stays true to that. Luffy has also lost several times throughout the series, with him having to end up training and to actually work harder to beat villains.
Even in his fight agiants kaido with gear 5, luffy was struggling and we see him taking damage and as you put out, ran out of power
Spongebob on the other hand was just a guy who could do random stuff from the get go, do anything, survive anything, pretty much whatever he thought of. No limits to his imagination
And because of spongebob’s ability to just do whatever the fuck he wants
Its what makes beating charizard easy for him
Charizard is also a pokemon that tends to get stronger
But spongebob was somebody who could just imagine whatever he wanted into reality
Am i saying spongebob is unbeatable? No, there are characters who can beat him
But is charizard one of them? Hell no