Meta Knight vs Bowser



Suggested by Sonic It’s time for Meta Knight to return and now he’s up against big bad Bowser. Bowser has a lot of raw strength at his disposal so he won’t go down easy. That being said, Meta Knight’s speed is going to be key here. He can keep taking shots at Bowser while dodging all possible counters. That’s always been a recipe for success in a fight and that will be true in this round as well. There just isn’t much that Bowser can do to stop him here. Meta Knight wins.

176 thoughts on “Meta Knight vs Bowser

  1. It´s just a matter of time that Giga Bowser hits meta Knight and when he does Meta knight would be badly damage and if Giga Bowser hits Meta knight at least one time that should be enough because of two reasons. 1. Meta Knight hasn´t show many durable feats and since Giga Bowser is twice more stronger and durable then Base Bowser just imagine how much damage Giga Bowser would do to meta Knight since we see that Bowser´s attacks are really powerful. When Meta Knight is gets badly damage Giga bowser will finish him off with his hot flame or just stomp him.

    • The key part will be if Bowser can hit Meta Knight and I have my doubts just due to how massive the speed difference is here. Meta Knight’s blows will also deal enough damage where he should be able to finish Bowser off before taking any real hits. It’s what hurts Bowser most of the time. He has a lot of power but not enough speed to really use it

      • Meta knight can´t escape Giga Bowser´s attacks forever and like is said: Its just a matter of time that Gigs Bowser hits meta knight and with one punch or too will be enough to finish him then Giga Bowser will kill him by burning him or stomp him.

      • This plays out sorta like the Charizard match although it is a lot closer to be sure. Meta Knight will take longer to beat Bowser and his durability is also weaker than the Pokemon’s. So it does come really close but I would make the case that Meta Knight would land enough blows to win before he gets hit

  2. Nah, believe me it will take longer than that and I assure you that since Meta knight hasn´t prove any incredible durability feat, he only has prove that he can keep up with Kirby a little bit but still Bowser would finish Meta Knight in just two, three or four punches. Plus Meta knight´s attacks doesn´t make much damage so it will take him some minutes to bring down Bowser by his attacks but it won´t give him time because its just a matter a time that Bowser lands a fatal blow on Meta Knight and that would be the end for him.

    • Yeah Meta Knight doesn’t have a whole lot of durability, but trust me his speed is the real deal. Keep in mind that this guy was actually blocking hits from Marth and zoomed over like a blur bullet. Bowser probably would have a hard time even keeping up with his speed visually. Meta Knight can then keep on poking at Bowser with his sword moves until the guy goes down

      • Like I say its just a matter of time that Bowser leaves a fatal blow on Meta knight and Bowser is much faster on his shell. Believe me that I don´t see Meta knight take Bowser´s attacks for so much longer while Meta knight will take him very much to take Bowser down with his swords attacks since we have seen it doesn´t do much damage like Bowser´s attacks.

      • Well I would say that this is the closest battle for Bowser easily. It is just barely that I believe Meta Knight would be able to outmaneuver him for the win. One wrong step and Bowser would definitely crush him.

  3. Its just like I say, Meta Knight may be able to avoid some attacks with his incredible speed but he won´t be able to continue like that. Bowser will finish him just in 3 or 4 punches and if he does a flying slam or bowser bomb it will be all over for Meta knight.

    • 3-4 hits probably is all it would take to be honest so I agree there. I just don’t see Bowser being able to land those hits. I can’t find a time Bowser has managed to hit anyone who was even remotely fast. I feel like he would be completely out of his league here

      • Trust me, its just a matter of time Bowser hits meta knight, he can´t escape forever and his flying slam and Bowser bomb will finish him off.

      • Bowser Bomb is one of his slower attacks though. His best bet definitely would be the flying slam but Meta Knight flies at incredible speeds so that is why I would still have my doubts

  4. Its just a matter of time that Meta knight gets hit. He can´t escape forever. So trust me that Meta knight wouldn´t be able to do anything here.

    • It is only a matter of time but it’s still too short before Meta Knight lands the deciding blow. Bowser is a very powerful fighter and one of those villains you do not want to mess with but he needs something more to be able to stop Meta Knight

      • Meta knight will land some hits but Meta knight´s hits doesn´t do so much damage so it will take him a long time to bring Bowser down doing those types of attacks because of Bowser´s impressive durability. Bowser will leave Meta Knight so much damage with his fists, drop kick, flying slam, or bowser bomb the Meta knight will be finish in just 4 or maybe 5 hits. And Bowser can burn him too with his hot flames.

      • It does really come down to whether Bowser’s durability can outlast Meta Knight’s speed. That’s just something I’m not too confident about. Bowser just doesn’t strike me as someone who is super durable to the point where he can survive Meta Knight’s onslaught. The guy is very skilled don’t get me wrong, but a match for Meta Knight? I’d have my doubts on that. A few of the shadow strikes will deal massive damage here

  5. You are saying me that Bowser isn´t super durable?
    Durability of Bowser: Resisted being crashed by a train, resisted being stomp by robots and castles, resists lava at any temperature, resisted a supernova, resisted fall to the sun and a star, resisted a black hole, and resisted the Big Bang. Bowser is more durable and can sure take a punishment. The shadow strikes may do some damage to Bowser but Bowser´s attacks will be more deadlier than Meta knight´s. meta knight may dodge some attacks but not all of them, believe me its just a matter of time he gets hit. Bowser´s dropkick, bowser bombs, and flying salms will do a massive damage to Meta Knight and it will surely end him.

    • Yeah I’d say he’s reasonably durable but not enough so where hw would be able to tank a lot of hits from Meta Knight. Trust me, that’s just not something he’ll be prepared to deal with. Meta Knight also deals out massive damage with each attack and that will also quickly unnerve Bowser.

      • Bowser has been able to survive worse things than attacks from someone like Meta Knight so he can sure take a punishment from Meta Knight so he can take the hits for so much longer. Lets not forget he has a super durable shell and he has too a shield in the abdomen that can protect him very much so that makes Bowser super durable. His shell has been able to protect him from May rocks hitting him in the back and it protect him from his castle falling to his back and the shell hasn´t had any scratch and since Meta Knights´ shadow strikes is an attack from the back then the shell of Bowser will protect him from that. Its just a matter of time Meta Knight gets hit, he can´t dodge attacks forever and the hits from Bowser will do massive damage to Meta Knight and he would be finished in 4 or maybe 5 punches and his flying slams, Bowser bombs, and dropkicks will finish Meta Knight. Lets not forget Bowser has to Giga Bowser and Giant Bowser and those from increase Bowser´s durability and strength so Meta Knight´s speed and attacks won´t be very effective and also Bowser can just wish him away with his Dreamy form.

      • Bowser can survive some pretty terrible punishment to be sure, but that’s different from taking direct hits from someone like Meta Knight with intent to destroy. What can Bowser possibly do to survive such an onslaught? He may be the King of the Koopa but he’s not invincible. Meta Knight’s shadow strikes are the best bet so the shell being a good defense is key but Meta Knight can adjust his swing on the fly so he doesn’t bump into the tough exterior. I’m confident that this will do the trick with his counter moves. As for wishing Meta Knight away with his Dreamy form….that’s not really going to do much here

  6. Bowser can still take a punishment from Meta Knight. he could even be able to dodge or block some attacks of Meta Knight since we have seen him dodge some things like in Mario Odyssey he was able to block Mario´s attacks and in Smash Bros Brawl he was able to dodge Pit´s arrows too. So that means that Bowser can dodge or even block some attacks of Meta Knight. Bowser was able to take direct hits too from Mario so he can be able to take Meta Knight´s direct hits too.
    Bowser will be able to hit Meta Knight even when he is flying then Meta Knight will receive so much damage and it will continue like that. Then Bowser´s strongest attack will do the trick here, Meta knight won´t be able to handle Giga Bowser´s and Giant Bowser´s strength and durability and their attacks will leave Meta Knight with so much damage that he will probably won´t be able to keep up. Bowser´s wishes will work on Meta Knight and don´t say it won´t because he has willpower because he doesn´t have a will that can protect him from things that could kill him. He hasn´t show anything of willpower in the Kirby´s games or series. Meta Knight will then fall to the ground.

    • Sure, but Bowser dodging Mario’s attacks doesn’t help much since Mario’s fairly slow. Meta Knight does have an uphill battle here but I’m just not sure about Bowser being able to take him down for the count. What we need is a game where Bowser is able to go all out and demonstrate his speed. A game where he doesn’t have to hold back anymore so we can better gauge him

      • mario isn´t slow he is very fast we have seen him be able to run very fast and in Smash he has some very fast attacks. Bowser was able to escape a black hole 4 times. A black hole is something inevitable that even light can´t escape! So that means Bowser is FTL speed, no way Meta Knight can compete with something like that! Bowser´s attacks will do some great damage to meta Knight and will be able to defeat him very quickly.

      • You’re trying to apply real world physics to a game with toon force. Bowser escaped the black hole as more of a power feat than a speed one. He’s definitely not FTL. I wouldn’t even say Bowser is supersonic speed

      • Any proof that he used brute force? I already said that you need to use speed to escape a black hole, its impossible that someone escapes a black hole with strength even for someone like Bowser who can lift many tons. He should have used speed and we know that is true so Bowser is FTL speed.

      • Yes, my proof is every scene we show has Bowser forcing his way out of the black hole with brute strength. He just reaches out and pulls himself out. So that’s the proof that it has nothing to do with speed

  7. To escape a black hole you need to use speed not brute strength, plus in the guide it doesn´t sya he escaped a black hole by using strength. Bowser is FTL speed, you need to be FTL speed to escape a black hole and Bowser has already done that 4 times!

    • I don’t know about that, looked to me like Bowser was using pure strength to break through that time. Usually it is speed as you mentioned but not quite in this case. This time it was all pure power and brawn

      • Its impossible that someone escapes a black hole with brute strength even for someone like Bowser who can lift many tons. You need to use speed. Bowser definitely escaped a black hole by using speed.

  8. Its still impossible for someone to escape a black hole by using brute strength even someone like Bowser who has super human strength. He has to use speed.

  9. You need to be FTL speed to escape a black hole and you know that. Its impossible for someone to escape a black hole by using strength, you need to use speed. Bowser is FTL speed.

      • Bowser escaped a black hole 4 times! A black hole is something that light can´t escape! So that means Bowser is faster than light.

      • No, it’s not consistent with anything we’ve seen from Bowser so it’s a lot more likely that he used brute force to break free

  10. Like I say ´´Have any proof?´´ It is impossible for someone to escape a black hole with brute force. Speed is the thing you should use to escape a black hole and you know it.

      • When does we see Bowser using brute strength. Even though Bowser is super strong he can´t escape a black hole by using strength he has to use speed.

      • We literally see it in the cutscene as he struggles to grab onto the black hole and then pulls himself out. There is no speed involved there

  11. We never saw Bowser pulling himself out of a black hole. Maybe in inside story he pulled himself out he escapes launching himself out and the black hole couldn´t suck him when he launched himself out so he must have launched himself in a speed faster than light so that could explain everything.

    • We see him break out. If you’re talking about the times he fell into one and then returned in the next game, keep in mind that Bowser knows magic. It would be very easy for him to simply teleport himself back into reality without having to go faster. The whole FTL argument makes no sense because if he could move at that speed then he would have

      • When have we saw Bowser using magic in Inside story to escape a black hole? I mean I know Bowser knows magic but we never saw him using magic to escape a a black hole.

      • Right, but we’ve only seen Bowser escape a black hole one of two ways.

        1. Bowser just crawls out using physical power
        2. Bowser escapes but we never see exactly how

        So I’m saying in the second instance it is more likely that he used magic than that he suddenly moved faster than light. I don’t think we’ll ever know one way or the other but that has a better chance in my view

  12. I already said that in inside story Bowser launched himself with a speed that even the black hole couldn´t suck Bowser so that means that speed that Bowser used to launch himself out of the black hole is FTL.

      • Yes it has to do with speed. If Bowser really isn´t FTL seed then when he launched himself out of the black hole then the black hole would have sucked him but it didn´t. Bowser must have launched himself out in a speed faster than light.

  13. When he launched himself out the black hole couldn´t suck him back so Bowser must have used a launch speed that is FTL speed so that explains everything.

      • A black hole can suck an entire planet that is obviously more heavy than Bowser so it means the black hole can take heavy people like Bowser, but that is not my point. My point is that since he was able to launch himself out of the black hole without he sucked him back then that means he use a speed to launch himself out that is faster than light.

      • I still disagree. From what we’ve seen of Bowser he doesn’t even have supersonic speed. So to jump all the way to saying he was able to move faster than light due to a scene where he gets through a black hole seems like it is not a very likely case. Strength makes a lot more sense

  14. What would strength involve in something that you launch yourself of a black hole in a speed that even a black hole can´t suck? He launched himself out of the black hole in a speed that the black hole couldn´t suck so that means that speed that used Bowser is FTL.

    • No, Bowser’s not even supersonic. At best he’s just using strength to try and resist the black hole’s influence. I wouldn’t call him super slow or anything but…I wouldn’t call Bowser all that fast either

      • He was able to launch himself out of the black hole with a speed that the black hole couldn´t suck him back so that speed that Bowser used to escape was FTL speed. If it really wasn´t FTL speed then the black hole would have sucked him back but it didn´t. You are right he isn´t supersonic speed he is FTL speed!

      • I think you’re focusing too much on real world physics here again. Put it this way, if Bowser was FTL speed why has he never ever used it in an actual combat scenario? Trust me, he would if he could but the guy just doesn’t have that kind of ability. And it’s okay, not every fighter needs to be crazy strong like that

  15. He doesn´t use it while fighting because he isn´t fast in feet like Sonic or Flash or Quicksilver but if he has proved to escape a black hole then that means FTL speed.

  16. He literally launched himself out of the black hole and the black hole didn´t suck him back so that means the speed Bowser used when he launched himself out must be FTL speed.

      • How could power help him launch himself out of a black hole and couldn´t sucked him back? Speed must have do all the job in that part. When he launched himself out the black hole didn´t sucked him back and if Bowser was really not FTL peed then he would have been sucked back but he didn´t so when he launched himself out he must have used a speed that the black hole couldn´t suck him back so that speed he used is faster than light.

      • It’s just enough power and weight where the gravity doesn’t affect him. It’s like if you stand in front of a tornado and don’t get pulled in because you have super durability. That’s all Bowser is using here, sheer defense to keep himself in the game. It’s got nothing to do with speed though because Bowser’s not that fast

  17. A black hole can suck an entire planet that it has more weight than Bowser so the black hole could handle Bowser’s weight and have we seen Bowser using power or defense to get out of the black hole in inside story? The answer is: No, he may have usen strength when he pulled himself out but speed does all the rest of the job. Bowser launched himself out of the black hole and it couldn’t suck him back so he used a launching speed that is way faster than light and its a very good reason. I already gived my conclusion so it is your turn. Bowser is FTL admit it.

    • I have given my reasoning. Bowser has never showed anywhere near that kind of speed before so it’s more likely that he was just able to resist the black hole’s effects with his power and weight. That’s how the King of the Koopas rolls and it worked out well for him here. He’s definitely not FTL though

      • I am going to say this one more time and I hope you understand it: A. Black Hole. Can. Suck. An. Entire. Planet!!!! That is obviously more heavier than Bowser so the black hole could sur handle Bowser’s weight and have we seen Bowser using anything of his power to get out of the black hole? No, we just seen he used strength and then speed. He may have used brute strength when he pulled himself out of the black hole but when he launched himself out speed does the job there. He wasn’t suck back when he launched himslef out so he must have using a launching speed that is FTL. You know that I have a good point and you can’t argue with that.

      • Put it this way, if the Black Hole could suck up a whole planet then why did it not even suck up the block Bowser was on or the city or anything? What you’re telling me then is that this was a far weaker Black Hole than a real one so it wouldn’t be an FTL feat either way if Bowser pushed past it

  18. But if he didn´t appear in the final fight then he didn´t save Bowser and don´t say Rosalina saved him because he only protected Mario and Peach from the black hole but she let Bowser died.

      • Bowser can only teleport by using the grand star and when he got sucked up he didn´t have the Grand star so he must have used speed.

      • I doubt he used speed though. We’ve never seen Bowser be able to move at that speed before so he would have had a really tough time. He can’t even go supersonic. My best guess personally is that he was saved or the black hole was used as a portal

  19. We never saw too he was saved by anyone and the black hole wasn´t a portal it seemed very real so he used speed. Speed is the only way to escape a black hole and in inside story we saw he launched himself out too and if he is really not FTL then he would have been sucked back but he didn´t so he must have used a launching speed that is FTl. If that doesn´t convince you then Bowser was able to keep up with Starship Mario, which crossed entire universes in 10 seconds, which would mean he can cross 9.1 BILLION light-YEARS every second.

    • Speed doesn’t work though because Bowser isn’t that fast. As for the Starship, Bowser kept up with it using magic and sorcery. There was no other way for him to keep up

      • We just literally saw Bowser launching himself out without getting sucked back! He must have used a launching speed that is FTL. And Bowser didn´t use any magic we saw how he was flying and keeping up with Mario´s starship.

      • Oh, for the one Bowser jumped out of he was using strength there. Bowser was able to force himself back out of the black hole which is an impressive feat in its own right, just not a speed one. He was relying purely on power which is something he definitely has quite a lot of

  20. He may have used strength when he pulled himself out but speed does the rest of the job. He used a launching speed that the Black Hole couldn´t suck it so that launching speed is FTL and you know I have a point.

    • Bowser isn’t FTL though so that’s why your point doesn’t land. We know for a fact that Bowser can’t move at speeds anywhere near light based on how Mario’s always kicking him around the block. I wouldn’t even say Supersonic to be honest as he’s more street level. That rules out speed so strength is the only thing he has left

      • Street level? Okay, let me ask you something…Can someone that can be able to take Black holes, lava, supernovas, fall to stars and suns, able to defeat gods, and be able to survive a Big Bang! Could be street level? Bowser is way higher than that he is universal level and with the Dream stone he becomes multiversal! Bowser is FTL he was able o launch himself out of a black hole without getting sucked back so he used a launching speed that is faster than light. Strength just appears when he pulled himself out but when he launched himself out without getting sucked back speed does the rest of the job and Bowser is able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds and Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! Knuckles can´t hope to compete with something like that! Bowser just outclasses Knuckles in almost every class! He would be finished by Dreamy Bowser´s wishes.

      • I was saying Bowser’s speed is street level, not that his durability was. The rest of his stats are okay but in speed he’s basically just a human so that’s why all of these opponents could just run rings around him and combo the guy for days. The final scaling things are all exaggerated and don’t help at all. You can’t scale characters in that way

  21. Bowser could escape a black hole! That makes him FTL and he is able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds! And Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! Bowser is more faster than you think he just outclasses Knuckles in almost everything the only advantage that Knuckles has is intelligence but that won´t do much.

    • The Black Hole feat has already been debunked along with Dreamy Luigi. Dreamy Luigi isn’t any faster than his normal form. Knuckles is still far faster and stronger than Antasma which is why I don’t see that guy being able to sneak a win here. The difference in their respective abilities is just too much that’s why Bowser would end up losing here. Knuckles also being smarter than him is really just showing how massive the gap here is. Anything Bowser can do, Knuckles can counter

      • I am already getting tired of you and your excuses. The Black hole proves everything that Bowser isn´t as slow as you think if he was able to escape a black hole that males him FTL and in the Dream Team guide it says that Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! And Bowser is able to keep up to Mario´s starship that can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds. Bowser is way faster than Knuckles. Knuckles may be smarter but that is the only advantage that Knuckles has while Bowser is better than him in almost every class. Knuckles can´t counter that Bowser throws at him he can´t do anything against his superior strength, durability, versatility, speed, experience, arsenal, and better forms. Knuckles is out of hope.

      • You’re still overrating these guys. Look, Bowser is strong but the Black Hole thing was pure power and not a speed feat. Bowser’s still fairly slow compared to someone like Knuckles. Knuckles has the massive speed advantage here as well as multiple super forms so Bowser would never even be hitting him like that

  22. I think you just don´t want to understand. We didn´t see Bowser using power or strength when he launched himself out. Bowser may have used strength when he pulled himself out of the black hole but he uses speed when he launches himself. If Bowser is the really slow guy you say he would have been sucked back to the black hole but he didn´t. So he used a launching speed that the black hole wasn´t able to suck back, so that launching speed is FTL and Bowser was able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire galaxies in just ten seconds! That could even make Bowser MFTL speed. While Knuckles hasn´t even be able to outrun a cheetah. Knuckles wouldn´t avoid all of the attacks he will still be hitted by Bowser. Hyper Knuckles may be a problem to Bowser but he has the Dream Stone and he would transform into Dreamy Bowser and he would wish him away. Also did you saw the new Bowser of Bowser´s fury? Just by his look we could all agree that he is very powerful and even his name is God Slayer Bowser he could even be more powerful than Dreamy Bowser! So that would be another form of Bowser that would beat Knuckles.

    • It’s just the most logical conclusion. We already know that Bowser is super slow so then we have to start with that premise to figure out what was happening with the Black Hole. If you ask me the most logical conclusion here is that he just powered his way through and that it wasn’t anywhere near as strong as a real black hole.

      The new Bowser form does look pretty hype. I think they debunked the God Slayer name but I hope in the fandom we continue to use it because it looks hype. I am expecting big things from this form. It looks strong even if it’s a bit slow. I don’t think he would be able to touch Knuckles but I am looking forward to the game. Should have a lot of good action and platforming in it.

      • We just literally seen how he was able to escape a black hole! Stop making up excuses we know that Bowser isn´t really slow since he was able to go to the middle of the universe in just seconds and able to keep up with starship mario who can travel through universes in ten seconds and Knuckles isn´t really very fast too. He didn´t even shown to outrun a cheetah. He didn´t use power in inside story to escape the black hole since we didn´t saw him using magic, defense, or neither power. He may have used strength when he pulled himself out of the black hole but he used a launching speed that the black hole couldn´t suck him back so that speed is FTL. Hyper Knuckles may be faster than Bowser but with the Dream Stone Bowser would become Dreamy Bowser and he would wish him away.

      • We know Bowser is slow from literally every game where you fight him and he moves like a giant monster. Show me a fight where he displayed those levels of speed. That’s why we know that the black hole wasn’t a true speed feat because it wouldn’t make sense. He’s just strong enough to break free. Knuckles is infinitely faster and with the Master Emerald energy Bowser couldn’t wish him away. That’s why Knuckles wins here, he’s just the stronger all around fighter. Aint nobody taking him down

  23. Oh, So I guess you haven’t played Super Mario Galaxy 2. In the final battle Mario and bowser were fighting while there was a giant black hole behind them and Bowser was literally flying around without getting sucked. Bowser is FTL since he can even too keep up with Mario’s starship that can travel through entire galaxies in just ten seconds and he can keep up with Mario who scales to the lumas who are MFTL speed. Knuckles isn’t infinitely fast he isn’t really fast and he would still be hitted by Bowser’s attacks since he can’t avoid everything and you know that. The Master Emerald’s doesn’t have the power to protect Knuckles from the wishes since he never has shown to do that. Show me a scence were the Master Emerald’s energy protects Knuckles and I will believe you but for now he is finished here.

    • Yeah Galaxy 2 is pretty hype. Keep in mind that Bowser has magic and all. That’s not a speed feat, he’s definitely not FTL or even Hypersonic. Even calling Bowser supersonic would be a stretch in my eyes. Keep in mind I like Bowser but he’s just not fast a all. The guy is so slow that in most sport games he is listed as a slow power type. You wouldn’t catch Knuckles getting outrun like that. Bowser can’t wish Knuckles away or he would have tried that with Mario and Luigi. That’s why he will ultimately get wrecked here. He isn’t prepared to deal with someone like Knuckles

      • Ok let me ask you something…How could he have used magic to escape the black hole in MG2 if we didn’t see him use it? I don’t know if you are blind but in the final fight we literally saw Bowser flying around the black hole without getting sucked and we didn’t see him use magic. You must haven’t played MG2 go see in youtube the final fight and you would see he was flying around like a bird without getting sucked nd he didn’t use magic. Bowser is FTL he can even keep up with Mario’s starship that can travel through entire galaxies in just ten seconds and he even keep up with Mario who scales to the lumas that are MFTL. Knuckles doesn’t have the speed to avoid everything it’s just a matter of time he gets hitted by Bowser. Dreamy Bowser can wish Knuckles away he couldn’t do it to Mario and Luigi because they would be protected by Rosalina or Starlow. Dreamy Bowser could use the Dream Stone’s wishing powers and he would wish that Knuckles dies and the Master Emerald’s energy can’t protect Knuckles cause he never has shown the power to do that. Bowser is superior he would wrecked Knuckles without problem. keep saying any excuse without sense that you want but it doesn’t change the fact that Bowser beats Knuckles.

      • I even reviewed Mario Galaxy 2. I’d recommend checking the post out because I lay down a lot of facts. Remember, Bowser isn’t FTL or even hypersonic. I doubt he’s supersonic based on how everyone pummels him. Bowser is street level in terms of speed and that’s why Knuckles would wreck him with ease. Bowser isn’t in the same ballpark and it pains me to say this because I like Bowser. He’s just not very tough compared to someone like Knuckles

  24. I am really getting tired of you and your excuses. Knuckles. Isn´t. That. Fast!!!!!! Knuckles never shown any scene where he runs very fast as Sonic. You just think Knuckles would win because he is faster but that doesn´t proves everything. You think speed is everything but that´s not it. Knuckles doesn´t have the speed to avoid everything and we all know it he would still be hitted by Bowser it´s just a matter of time he gets hit. And if Bowser was able to escape a black hole then he isn´t the person that you think. He didn´t use any of magic, or strength, or defense, or power because we didn´t see him use that in MG2 or Inside Story. We saw how he was flying around the black hole without getting sucked and able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire galaxies in just ten seconds. You don´t know what Bowser is capable of so you better do research of him or you won´t know anything. Bowser isn´t the guy you think he is. Another big advantage that Bowser has is hax. Bowser really outclasses Knuckles when it comes to hax and his Dreamy form would take care of Hyper Knuckles. Knuckles doesn´t really have anything to do against Bowser so he would be the one to be wrecked same to Mario and Sonic. Bowser wins.

    • That’s because you’re overestimating Bowser a ton. Knuckles is super fast. Check out how he was against Shadow in Sonic X or when he fought Sonic in the comics. Knuckles is incredibly fast as well as powerful. That’s why Bowser stands no chance here. Bowser is not that strong or fast compared to Knuckles. Knuckles just needs to activate hyper form and he literally stomps Bowser in an instant. The difference between these guys is too great. Sonic would win even easier.

      • And you are underestimating Bowser by a ton. Knuckles isn´t really fast he is just fast in his hyper form. Bowser was able to escape a black hole and able to keep up with Mario´s starship that travels through universes in less than 30 seconds. So that makes him MFTL speed. Knuckles won´t be able to avoid all of Bowser´s attacks it´s just a matter of time he gets hit. Bowser is way more stronger than Knuckles. Knuckles isn´t even close to his strength. Bowser has more advantages than Knuckles: Strength, Durability, Versatility, Speed, Arsenal, Experience, Hax, and magic. Hyper Knuckles may be a problem to Bowser but Bowser just turns into Dreamy Bowser and then he wrecks Knuckles. Bowser wins but not easily.

      • Knuckles is super fast while Bowser is super slow. No matter how you slice it, this is a lopsided win for Knuckles. He wins easily and Bowser has no chance. Knuckles would laugh while Bowser tries to wish him away

  25. You just think Knuckles would win because he is faster but that doesn´t prove anything kid. Bowser is way faster than Base Knuckles because he is able to escape a black hole that is something that even light can´t escape. So that makes him FTL. And even Bowser´s massive durability blows Knuckles speed because he could take almost everything that Knuckles throws at him and Hyper Knuckles may be super fast but Dreamy Bowser would easily wish Knuckles away and the Master Emerald won´t protect him cause he doesn´t have the power to do that yet.

    • You’re missing the point again. Bowser has no real speed. Knuckles would crush him with ease because he wouldn’t be hit and he has enough durability to keep on taking hits over and over again. It’s why Knuckles will win this with ease. Bowser’s not even on the same level to be honest

      • Bowser escaped a Black hole in: Mario Galaxy 1, Mario galaxy 2, Bowser Inside Story, And in mario party. If he escaped a black hole then that makes him FTL speed he can even be MFTL speed since he can keep up with Mario’s starship that can travel through entire universes in less than 15 seconds and was able to go to the center of the universe in less than a minute. Knuckles isn’t super fast like Sonic I would say that Base Knuckles speed is normal so it’s just a matter of time he gets hitted and his durability isn’t as impressive like Bowser’s. Bowser hands down when it comes to durability so he sure could take almost everything of Knuckles attacks. Knuckles would resist some of Bowser’s attacks but just for a few minutes. Knuckles would even admit that Bowser is a really powerful and tough opponent for him and he would say he isn’t really easy to take down since Bowser is almost indestructible. Bowser just has many advantages: Strength, Durability, Versatility, Speed, Experience, Arsenal, Hax, and Magic. Knuckles is very powerful and someone not very easy to take down but he isn’t prepared for someone like Bowser.

      • You’re getting confused again. Bowser escaping the black hole is just power. In some of those games like Mario Party that’s just toon force. Bowser is really slow. Keep in mind that Mario is consistently shown to be faster than Bowser and it’s not like he’s a regular speedster either. The only logical conclusion we can come to here is that Bowser just isn’t so fast. There’s no shame in that either by the way. Some characters just weren’t meant to be super fat. It’s why Knuckles would easily crush Bowser though

  26. Are you calling Bowser fat? You must be blind since in Mario Galaxy 2 we just saw how Bowser was flying around the black hole with getting sucked and we didn’t saw him use power. Accept it Bowser is FTL stop making excuses that doesn’t make sense. Bowser can even keep up with Mario’s starship tha in less than 15 seconds can travel through an entire universe and he keeps losing to Mario because he is able to move as a bolt of lightning and he scales to the lumas that are MFTL. Mario is way more powerful than Knuckles too. Knuckles isn’t really fast so he would still be hitted by Bowser. You just think Knuckles wins because he is faster. You think speed is everything that you need to win but you are totally wrong.

    • I only said that Bowser’s not very fast. His minions are always calling him overweight but it doesn’t matter. The key part here is that Mario is always running rings around Bowser and he’s just an ordinary plumber. Imagine what Sonic could do to the poor chap. Bowser wouldn’t even know what hit him. He’d be running scared the instant that the battle started. That’s what would really put him on a nervous streak. Trust me, Knuckles wins this one with ease. He’s faster and stronger

      • Mario can move as a bolt of lightning in Mario Odyssey and he scales to a luma who is MFTL so he is very fast too. Sonic wouldn’t dodge all of Bowser’s attacks he would still be hitted by him and he is FTL since he can escape a black hole with ease. You don’t know what Bowser is capable of so you better do research of him kid. Knuckles stronger than Bowser? Three words: No. Freaking. Way! Bowser obviously has the strength advantage. Knuckles isn’t even close to Bowser’s strength since Bowser is able to lift his castle and other amazing strength feats while Knuckles hasn’t even show to be able to lift a giant boulder. He isn’t faster too since Bowser is able to keep up with Mario’s starship that can travel through entire universes in less than 15 seconds and able to escape a black hole without problem. That makes him even MFTL speed. Bowser is more stronger, durable, and faster. In the end Knuckles won’t end well.

      • We already went through this, Mario doesn’t scale to Luma and he’s fairly standard in terms of speed. Sonic’s way faster and he would beat Mario in his sleep. Likewise Knuckles would crush Bowser too. Keep in mind that Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald and can even use its energy to power himself up. When you put that into perspective it means that Bowser is really out of luck here. He wouldn’t even be able to keep track of Knuckles’ movements

  27. In the Mario Galaxy Guide says that Mario scales to a Luma. And also he was able to move as a bolt of electricity. Sonic may be fast but we all know just because he is fast it doesn’t he isn’t untouchable it’s just a matter of time Mario lands a deadly blow on Sonic. And also I already told you Mario can counter Sonic’s speed with his power up time freeze. And also Mario has multiple ways to defend himself from Mario’s attacks. He could use the star, become invincible, and immune to Sonic’s attacks. You are really overestimating Sonic.
    Knuckles may power up from the Master Emerald but Bowser can do that too. He would use the Dream Stone and become Dreamy Bowser and wish him away and the Master Emerald can’t protect him. Bowser could even turn Knuckles into a brick without problem. Knuckles isn’t really fast and he would be wrecked by Bowser.

    • It doesn’t. Show me the page where you saw that. I can tell you now that it doesn’t exist. Sonic’s way too powerful for Mario. Speed is a huge factor. You can’t beat what you can’t catch. That’s one of many reasons why Knuckles and Sonic would clobber Mario and Bowser. The latter two just don’t stand a…ghost! of a chance against them. They would be crushed with ease and no mercy. It’s part of what makes them such terrifying characters. Mario wouldn’t land any hits. Keep in mind that the length of the battle would probably be like a minute or so. Sonic would have him down for the count within that time. He doesn’t scale to Luma either which makes things even worse for Mario because now he is really going to get stomped. All Sonic needs to do is flex a little and then start throwing the hands. At that point Mario is sunk.

      Bowser’s power ups aren’t as good as Knuckles though. Knuckles is protected so he couldn’t turn into a brick and then he would finish Bowser off for good

      • You know Mario has been able to dodge lightning, lasers, and meteors and that makes him very fast and Bowser is able to react to the comet observatory that can go to the middle of the universe in 5 seconds and Mario’s starship that can travel through an entire universe in ten seconds so that makes Bowser MFTL speed. Sonic may be fast but we all know just because he is fast it doesn’t he isn’t untouchable it’s just a matter of time Mario lands a deadly blow on Sonic. And also I already told you Mario can counter Sonic’s speed with his power up time freeze. And also Mario has multiple ways to defend himself from Mario’s attacks. He could use the star, become invincible, and immune to Sonic’s attacks. You are really overestimating Sonic.
        The Dream Stone is way better than the Master Emerald since he can grant you any wish and Bowser could even absorb the Dream stone and become Dreamy Bowser who is thousands of times more powerful than Base Bowser and his even a multiversal god who can create and wish anything. Knuckles isn’t protected by the Master Emerald since the Master Emerald hasn’t shown be able to do that so he would really would be finished by Dreamy Bowser and also Bowser can just turn him into a brick

      • Mario isn’t that fast though. Just look at any of the cutscenes. He’s pretty much normal speed and Bowser is even slower. Sonic would be taking him down with ease. Just punching the plumber until he eventually goes down. Mario won’t even be able to land a single blow. Same for Knuckles and Bowser. The problem with Bowser is he can’t wish for things like taking Knuckles out of the fight while Knuckles can just pound him into the ground again and again

  28. Stop being such an ignorant. Sonic’s speed doesn’t make him untouchable he would be hitted by Mario. You are just saying the same excuse over and over again. Your only reason that you think Knuckles and Sonic would win is just because they are fast but that doesn’t prove anything kid. Mario has been able to dodge meteors, lasers, and bullets and he was able to move as a bolt of electricity so he would be able to dodge some of Sonic’s attacks too. Keep in mind that Mario has many ways to defend himself from Sonic and he would counter Sonic’s abilities with his power ups. He would use the metal cap for Sonic’ attacks, the time freeze for his speed, and the star to make him invincible and immune to Sonic’s attacks. Mario could even overpower the blue hedge hog. For example he could freeze his solid or turn him into gold. Mario’s superior durability blows Sonic’s speed out of the way too. Mario is just super tough for Sonic he would need more than a combo to beat him. Mario just has the advantage.
    Knuckles isn’t very fast too. You know Knuckles doesn’t have the speed too to avoid everything and Bowser is wa faster since he can escape a black hole and been able to keep up with Mario’s starship who can travel through entire universes in less than 15 seconds. So that means Bowser is MFTL speed. Trust me he has already shown many speed feats and we could confirm he is MFTL speed. Also Bowser would be able to hit Knuckles it’s just a matter of time he lands a blow on him. Even Bowser’s superior durability would sure take many hits from Knuckles and he even has his super shell that would protect him too from Knuckles attacks. Bowser can wish him away with the Dream Stone he would just wish that he dies and that would be the end for him. Knuckles and Sonic aren’t prepared yet.

    • You’re missing all of the points again. Mario isn’t very fast and Sonic’s way more talented and skilled. Knuckles is also far superior to Bowser in all of these stats. Wishing him away won’t do any good. If anything Knuckles will laugh because of how desperate Bowser is. Trust me, this would not be a good look for the Koopa King in the slightest. He’d get run out of town in no time flat.

      • Mario was able to move as a bolt of electricity and even able to pilot his starship that is MFTL speed and also he was able to dodge: lightning, lasers, and bullets. So Mario would be able to dodge some of Sonic’s attacks. Mario is way more experienced and more talented. Keep in mind that Mario has been outsmarting his enemies all the time while Sonic just focus on defeating them by punches. I already told you Mario can counter Sonic’s speed with his power up time freeze and all of his abilities too, they can even overpower the hedgehog. And Mario’s durability counters Sonic’s speed too since he could tank almost all of Sonic’s attacks and if Sonic turn Super Mario just would use the star and become immune to Super Sonic’s attacks.
        Knuckles isn’t superior than Bowser in all the stats, that is just the opposite Bowser outclasses him in almost him: Strength, Durability, Versatility, Speed, Hax, Arsenal, Experience, and Magic. Knuckles only has intelligence. Dreamy Bowser would wish Knuckles away and Knuckles wouldn’t be protected.

      • Nah, Mario’s not FTL or even hypersonic. Remember that he has trouble with Bowser who is quite slow. Sonic has had to deal with real threats over the years. Trust me, Mario’s not ready for this. He couldn’t tank almost any of Sonic’s attacks. Knuckles would also be speedblitzing Bowser for days. The Master Emerald would protect him from any kind of wish and Knuckles would probably just be confused as to why Bowser keeps insisting on trying the same things over and over again

  29. Mario was able to dodge lightning, lasers, and bullets. So he is very fast too. Bowser was able to escape a black hole that requires to be FTL speed to do that and he was able to match Mario’s starship that in less that 15 seconds could travel an entire universe. That makes Bowser even MFTL! You are underestimating Mario and Bowser very much! Mario has defeated gods too in the past! Bowser was able too keep up with Culex! The master of all time. I already told you Mario can counter Sonic’s speed with his power up time freeze and all of his abilities too, they can even overpower the hedgehog. And Mario’s durability counters Sonic’s speed too since he could tank almost all of Sonic’s attacks and if Sonic turn Super Mario just would use the star and become immune to Super Sonic’s attacks.
    Stop making up things about Knuckles. We all know speed isn’t Knuckles strength. He doesn’t have the speed to avoid everything he would still be hitted by Bowser. The Master Emerald has never shown be able to protect Knuckles so he would be finished by the wishes.

    • Knuckles is all facts here. You’ve seen what he can do with his speed. He can move so fast that he can do the spin dash just like Sonic. Bowser wouldn’t even be able to see him coming. Sonic would also crush Mario with speed. Even with the Power Star Mario wouldn’t be durable enough to stand up to one of Sonic’s barrages. Sonic would just take him down for the count and keep it moving. It’s why they call him the Blue blur. Bowser’s nowhere nearly fast enough to keep up here.

      • Knuckles is just fast in his spin dash but in his feet he isn’t very fast. Base Knuckles has normal speed. Stop being ignorant. Bowser has been able to escape a black hole and able to match Mario’s starship that in less than 15 seconds can travel an entire universe! Who can you hope he can match that? Bowser is way faster and also he has shown reactionary feats like dodging pit’s arrows and block Mario’s attacks so he would be able to react to Knuckles attacks. Your only reason that you think Knuckles wins is that he is faster but I already told you 10000 times that Bowser has been able to escape a black hole but you just don’t want to get that in your brain. Bowser’s massive durability would even counter Knuckles and his Dreamy form would care of him with ease.
        I told you too many times that Mario’s time freeze counters his speed and also just because Sonic is fast he isn’t untouchable. Mario would be able to hit Sonic. It’s just a matter of time. And also Mario’s durability would allow him to take many attacks of Sonic and he has his power ups that would help him defend him from Sonic. His power ups can counter Sonic’s abilities and even would be able to overpower him. The star would make Mario invincible and immune since we saw in the Mario games and in Smash he is totally immune to any type of attack so Sonic’s attacks won’t tickle him.

      • Knuckles is fast though. You can’t do a spindash without being fast. You’re mixing things up again. Bowser isn’t very fast at all. Mario is able to outrun him and we all know Mario’s not exactly the fastest guy on the block. He would get stopped real quick here. Knuckles and Sonic would slap these guys silly. Sonic can just punch Mario out of his star form

  30. I already told you this like 1 million times but you still don´t put it in your thick head. In MG2 we literally saw Bowser flying around the black hole without getting sucked! That makes him FTL he could even be MFTL because he is able to keep up with Mario´s starship who can travel through entire universes in less than 30 seconds. Bowser isn´t really slow and even in smash he is able to run very fast and his attacks are fast too. Knuckles isn´t really fast and he would still be hitted by Bowser. Bowser just has almost all of the advantages over Knuckles. Knuckles can´t really hope to do something against Bowser and Hyper Knuckles may be fast but Dreamy Bowser takes care of him with his wishing powers and Knuckles won´t be protected by anything.
    And Mario actually is really fast when it comes to reflexes because he is able to dodge lightning, lasers, and bullets so Mario would be able to react to Sonic. And also Sonic can’t punch Mario out of his star form because Rainbow Mario is immune to any type of attack. We saw in the Mario games and in Smash Bros that nothing can hurt Rainbow Mario. There is not an attack that can hurt him and in Smash we saw too that Sonic can’t even affect him too not even Super Sonic! So Sonic’s attacks won’t do a thing to Rainbow Mario.

    • You’re getting confused. Bowser isn’t FTL or even Supersonic. He’s pretty standard with how Mario is always outrunning the guy. Knuckles is way too fast and would be slapping him around. Bowser’s wishing abilities wouldn’t do a thing to him. Sonic would just punch Mario out of his rainbow form. He’s not immune, it just increases his durability. Trust me when I say that Sonic will not be impressed

      • I see it’s impossible reason with you since you always say the same excuse. In MG2 we literally saw Bowser flying around the black hole without getting sucked so that makes him FTL and he is also been able to match Mario’s starship that can travel through universe in just ten seconds so that even makes Bowser MFTL speed. Mario is very fast too since he is able to move as a bolt of electricity and able to dodge: lightning, lasers, meteors, and bullets. So Mario is very fast when it comes to reflexes. And Knuckles isn’t very fast we all seen that Knuckles never has shown any incredible speed feat so we can confirm that speed isn’t Knuckles’ strength. Bowser is way too tough for Knuckles so Bowser would sure be able to take many hits from Knuckles and his attacks are very powerful since in Smash wee seen that Bowser can knock out a character with just two drop kicks. And also his flying slams and bowser bombs are very strong attacks and would sure leave Knuckles very damaged and Bowser is very fast in his shell too. And he has his Giga form and giant form that increases his strength and durability. He would stomo Knuckles. And even though Hyper Knuckles may be a problem Bowser has his dreamy form and he would wish to the Dream Stone that Knuckles dies and the Master Emerald wouldn’t protect him.
        Rainbow Mario is invincible since we saw in the Mario Games and in Smash that nothing affects him. And even is Smash Sonic’s attacks doesn’t do a thing to him. Not even Super Sonic! So that proves that Sonic won’t even tickle Rainbow Mario.

      • This is going in circles. We already know Bowser isn’t FTL because of how slow he is in combat and all the cutscenes. The Black Hole elements are pure power. Knuckles is a whole lot faster since he can keep up with Sonic. He would easily speedblitz Bowser to the point where the villain would not be able to keep up at all. The gap in their abilities is huge. Wishes wouldn’t work on Knuckles with the Master Emerald plus Bowser can’t wish him away.

        Star Mario is durable but not enough so that he could stand up to hits from Sonic. Sonic is just too skilled and strong here.

  31. We all saw in MG2 Bowser was flying around the black hole and he wasn’t using power. Go see in youtube the final fight of MG2 and you will see that Bowser wasn’t using anything of power. In Smash we see that Bowser can run very fast and his attacks are very fast too. Knuckles may be able to keep up with Sonic but Bowser is able to keep up with Mario’s starship that in less than 15 seconds can travel an entire universe. Sonic wouldn’t be able to outrun that. Speed isn’t Knuckles strength so he wouldn’t be able to speedblitz around Bowser. Bowser is way more tougher than Knuckles so he would sure take many hits from Knuckles and also Bowser knows black magic he can: Manipulate Gravity, shoot lightning from his hands, able to create a castle, make energy balls, time travel, create meteors and black holes, turn people into bricks, etc. And also Bowser really outclasses Knuckles when it comes to hax. Hax is really useful in a fight. Bowser is way stronger and tougher than Knuckles and he has his Giga form and Giant form that would crush him. And also Bowser could wish to the Dream Stone that Knuckles and the Master Emerald won’t be able to protect him.

    In Smash we literally see that Sonic’s attacks don’t affect Rainbow Mario not even SUper Sonic! So that proves Sonic won’t do anything to Rainbow Mario.

    • Yeah the final boss where he says he wished he had some cake and stuff right? I just rewatched it now and they are fighting in space but that’s not a full black hole saying he was moving FTL. If that were the case then Mario would be moving FTL as well and we know that isn’t the case. It’s just standard space maneuvering but nothing particularly impressive there. Sonic would still be wrecking both Mario and Bowser with ease thanks to the speed. As for Bowser vs Knuckles, Knuckles is just a lot more powerful and fast. He would be able to speedblitz Bowser before he even has time to look around. That is what will really hold the Koopa King back in the end. There’s just not a whole lot that he can hope to do here which is a little disappointing I’ll admit but it’s the way that it goes. Wishing won’t do anything here and Super Mario isn’t invincible. Sonic will still be able to knock him out just like he took out Tabuu

      • My god who can you be this stupid? You just can’t say the black hole was false if you don’t have any proof. So if you don’t have proof you better shut your mouth. Mario is very fast too since he is able to move as a bolt of electricity and able to dodge: lightning, lasers, meteors, and bullets. So Mario is very fast when it comes to reflexes. And Knuckles isn’t very fast we all seen that Knuckles never has shown any incredible speed feat so we can confirm that speed isn’t Knuckles’ strength. Bowser is way too tough for Knuckles so Bowser would sure be able to take many hits from Knuckles and his attacks are very powerful since in Smash wee seen that Bowser can knock out a character with just two drop kicks. And also his flying slams and bowser bombs are very strong attacks and would sure leave Knuckles very damaged and Bowser is very fast in his shell too. And he has his Giga form and giant form that increases his strength and durability. He would stomo Knuckles. And even though Hyper Knuckles may be a problem Bowser has his dreamy form and he would wish to the Dream Stone that Knuckles dies and the Master Emerald wouldn’t protect him.
        Rainbow Mario is invincible since we saw in the Mario Games and in Smash that nothing affects him. And even is Smash Sonic’s attacks doesn’t do a thing to him. Not even Super Sonic! So that proves that Sonic won’t even tickle Rainbow Mario.

      • You’re overestimating Bowser again. There was nothing in that fight to suggest he is even remotely fast. Mario and Bowser are very standard. Trust me, I like Bowser so I don’t like having to knock him around like this but it’s just the way it is. Sonic and Knuckles are far more powerful fighters because their speed is what keeps them up. Bowser can try to throw a million punches but they would dodge each and every one of them. Sonic would punch Rainbow Mario and his gameplay mechanics out with ease. That’s his true skills

  32. You are clearly underestimating Bowser. You don’t know what impressive things he has done in the past. Stop making up excuses you can’t say it wasn’t speed that help Bowser get out of the Black Hole if you don’t have proof. He was literally flying around the black hole without getting sucked. That clearly makes him FTL. He didn’t use anything of power or defense. Knuckles never has shown an incredible speed feat and we never have seen him run very fast like Sonic so he is standard in speed. Bowser is far more powerful than you think. He has been able to keep up with Culex and able to destroy a whole universe! He has been able to pull an island, lift and throw a giant cannon ball, carry and throw his castle, pull out a giant carrot, pull a giant statue even while they are many people pushing it and much more! He know black magic. He is able to manipulate gravity, turn people into bricks, shoot lightning from his hands, make energy balls, create shock waves, create bubble creatures, etc. He is clearly one of the most powerful characters of Nintendo. Do some research. Knuckles can’t run very fast we never has seen him be able to move faster than light or anything so he is standard. Bowser punches are even far more powerful than Knuckles’. He may cause volcanic eruptions by punching the ground but Bowser has been able to one punch peach’s castle so hard that make an entire tour around the world in seconds. Bowser is way stronger and durable. His attacks would cause him great damage to Knuckles. He can turn into Giga or Giant and squash Knuckles or he can just wish to the Dream Stone that he dies and also in Smash Sonic can’t affect Rainbow Mario so that proves Sonic wouldn’t even be able to tickle him.

    • We know Bowser didn’t use speed though because he’s not very fast. That’s why we can discredit the whole FTL thing right off the bat. Now as for the super strength and such like that, it’s still not going to be enough to take Knuckles down. Keep in mind that Knuckles is much faster than than Bowser will ever be. Additionally, he has his Master form to end things in an instant. Also, most Fire Emblem villains could give Bowser a run for his money so I’m not sure about saying that he is one of the most powerful Nintendo villains. As for Mario, Rainbow form isn’t enough. Sonic still has the massive advantage in both speed and skill. That’s why Mario really won’t have a shot here.

      • You can´t say that Bowser didn´t use speed to escape the black hole just because you think he isn´t that fast. You need to have proof and I have already have mine. We just saw he has been flying around the black hole like nothing. That means he is FTL and Knuckles never has shown any incredible speed feat so he is not very fast. Bowser has been able to destroy a planet and a universe and has been able to keep up with Culex. He is almost immortal since he has been able to come back after many deadly things that no one could survive like a black hole, supernova, fall to a star and a sun, lava, and a big bang. No way Knuckles could survive that. He could also surpass donkey kong in strength who can make earthquakes by hitting the ground. Bowser knows black magic like: manipulate gravity, turn people into bricks, shoot lightning from his hands, make energy balls, create shock waves, create bubble creatures, etc. Bowser can turn himself giant whenever he wants and increases not only his size but his strength too. Bowser is on a big and superior level than Knuckles. He is way stronger and durable than Knuckles his attacks would cause him so much damage and he could turn giga or giant and squash him or just wish to the Dream Stone that he dies. Bowser is definitely one of the most powerful characters of Nintendo.
        And even though Sonic is fast Mario could just use the stopwatch and freeze time and finish him. His rainbow form would be totally immune to Sonic as we seen in Smash that even Super Sonic can´t do anything to him.

      • We do have proof though, literally everything Bowser has ever done in the games. We know for a fact that he is super slow because of his portrayals in every game. What’s more likely, that he somehow became FTL in one game or that he used his strength? Have you seen Bowser’s Fury yet? He was very slow there as always. Bowser just isn’t a speedy character and it’s something I think we’re just going to have to live with for a long while. This isn’t Bowser’s show to win, not anymore at least.

        As for Mario, his rainbow form increases his durability but that’s it. Sonic would still overwhelm him with punches and just knock the guy out

  33. Superhuman strength: he is canonically stronger than both mario and Wario together,Wario is canonically stronger than mario who kicked away a neutron star in mario galaxy two,a neutron star weight over 1.4 solar masses,which is more than the weight of our SUN! Bowser could easily destroy our planet with a punch!

    Superhuman speed: he ran fast enough to burn all of his fat,making him easily faster than sound.

    Superhuman durability: Bowser survived black holes,bombs,falling into stars,heck,he even survived as a SKELETON without ANY ORGANS OR FLESH. But he’s most impressive durability feat was to survive EXPLODING INTO DUST,in mario party 9,Bowser BLOWED UP! Nothing but dust was left of him,and he just regenerated another body!

    Super intelligence:while Bowser prefers fist over brain,he is actually VERY smart,he stated having a IQ of 9800 in mario party advance! 9800 is HUGE!! He also proved it,he made many robots,laser shooting clown cars,a giant mech of himself and even entire space stations! And Neo Bowser city is a proof of Bowser’s technology and intelligence.

    Abilities:Bowser can create earthquakes by jumping and shockwaves by doing the same,he can enter in his shell,which is as durable as he is,however,it never even got a scratch! Black holes? Stars? Piece of cake! This shell is nearly unbreakable,and he can even spin on it to attack people while being completely protected. He can also control fire,he can breath fire,fireballs,fire lasers and much more! He can even put his fist and tail on fire to attack. He can also use magic,turning people into bricks by throwing electricity/beams,he can control gravity,time travel,create black holes,create realms,teleport,create portals,become giant Bowser and even create his OWN UNIVERSE!

    Power:Bowser created a supermassive black hole by roaring in mario party 9,to create a black hole THAT big,you’d need to blow up a STAR,meaning Bowser can just roar hard enough to blow up stars! In another mario party game,his roars could make islands sink! And in mario party 5,Bowser was powerful enough to CREATE HIS OWN UNIVERSE!

    But giant Bowser is even stronger,that Bowser outran a black hole in inside story,making him MFTL,and he was also strong enough to LAUNCH HIMSELF OUT OF THAT BLACK HOLE!
    You have no idea how powerful is Bowser. So you better shut your mouth if you haven’t done research of him. We saw in smash that Bowser runs very fast and he can even outrun Mario. In MG2 we saw how Bowser survives the black hole and he doesn’t get sucked. And no he didn’t use anything of strength or defense. We see him flying like a bird around the black hole. That proves he is FTL speed. Knuckles isn’t a speed character and we haven’t see him do any incredible speed feat so he isn’t really fast. Bowser is way too strong and would crush Knuckles.

    You don’t have proof that Sonic can punch Mario out of his Star form. We saw in Smash that Rainbow Mario is immune to everything. Sonic can’t even cause him damage not even Super Sonic. So Sonic can’t do anything to Rainbow Mario.

    • In Super Smash that’s gameplay mechanics that nobody can hurt Mario. Really it just amps up his durability but that’s really about all we can say for him. Sonic would still be kicking him around. Mario just won’t be able to keep up with Sonic and that’s why he would be getting wrecked here.

      For Bowser, I don’t think he’s a genius here. More like he uses his magic and minions to build the items for him. I don’t think Bowser would even have time for all of that with his constant quests to kidnap Peach and all. Look, I do think Bowser is pretty tough but he’s just not fast enough to keep up with Knuckles. Knuckles would be running rings around him all day and peppering him with hits. Bowser would ultimately fall

      • You literally have no proof saying that the star only makes Mario more durable. Even in the first game of Mario we see that when Mario gains the star there is nothing that can stand in his way. Stop making stupid excuses but we all know that the star makes Mario invincible even in the power up says clearly that the star makes Mario invincible. That is clear proof while you don´t have any single evidence that proofs that the star doesn´t make Mario invincible. Even Super Sonic can´t hurt Star Mario so Mario´s power ups can counter all of Sonic´s forms and abilities.
        Bowser has come up with strategies of kidnapping the princess that even Mario hasn´t seen coming. He has being planning all of his evil plans and he hasn´t have any single error in any of them and also if you have ever played Mario Party Advance It says there that Bowser has an IQ 0f 9800. You don´t have any idea of how powerful is Bowser. If you say that Bowser isn´t strong or fast then you are 999999999% wrong.
        Superhuman strength: he is canonically stronger than both mario and Wario together,Wario is canonically stronger than mario who kicked away a neutron star in mario galaxy two,a neutron star weight over 1.4 solar masses,which is more than the weight of our SUN! Bowser could easily destroy our planet with a punch!
        Power:Bowser created a supermassive black hole by roaring in mario party 9,to create a black hole THAT big,you’d need to blow up a STAR,meaning Bowser can just roar hard enough to blow up stars! In another mario party game,his roars could make islands sink! And in mario party 5,Bowser was powerful enough to CREATE HIS OWN UNIVERSE!
        Super intelligence:while Bowser prefers fist over brain,he is actually VERY smart,he stated having a IQ of 9800 in mario party advance! 9800 is HUGE!! He also proved it,he made many robots,laser shooting clown cars,a giant mech of himself and even entire space stations! And Neo Bowser city is a proof of Bowser’s technology and intelligence.
        Super intelligence:while Bowser prefers fist over brain,he is actually VERY smart,he stated having a IQ of 9800 in mario party advance! 9800 is HUGE!! He also proved it,he made many robots,laser shooting clown cars,a giant mech of himself and even entire space stations! And Neo Bowser city is a proof of Bowser’s technology and intelligence.

        Bowser has being surviving things all of his life like: Lava, the sun, black holes, stars, being stomped by robots, get crashed by a train, and he even survived a freaking supernova that destroyed all the universe in Mario Galaxy and you say that Knuckles will beat him with just a combo? One Word: Fake Study more. Bowser is clearly Faster, stronger, and far more durable.

      • You’re heavily overestimating Mario and Bowser. They would end up getting lolstomped here. Knuckles just punches Bowser into submission while Sonic weaves in and out of Mario’s blows the whole time

  34. No, you are heavily underestimating Bowser and Mario. You say you play MG2 well to me it appears that you are lying. If you really play it you should know that Bowser was able to fly around a black hole like it was nothing. That proves He is MFTL Speed. And Mario has a ton of power ups to deal with Sonic. He can use the Stop watch power up to counter his speed and the star and invincibility leaf would make him invulnerable to Sonic

    • Trust me, that game was good but you’re still taking the gameplay too seriously. Bowser isn’t even supersonic speed so he would be getting blitzed. Likewise, Sonic is just way too fast for Mario and would be wracking up the wins real quick

      • Do you even know the definition of a Black Hole? Here I will help you.
        Black Hole: A black hole is a region of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing – no particles or even electromagnetic radiation such as light – can escape from it.
        Stop making up worthless excuses. We all can see very well that in the final battle of MG2. Bowser and Mario were fighting while there was a black hole behind them. Bowser was literally flying around it like nothing. Even more impressive, Bowser is able to keep up with Starship Mario. Starship Mario is fast enough to travel through entire universes in seconds, yet Bowser matches it. Bowser would be like, Millions of times faster than light.
        Sonic is very fast, but we haven’t seen him be able to travel through universes in seconds like Starship Mario…At least not yet.
        Even though Mario is not faster, his reaction speed can match up to Sonic’s. In Mario Odyssey, he is able to move as a bolt of electricity and able to pilot the Star Driver and the Star Driver is fast as light, maybe even faster. . We have seen that when Luigi throws the Star Driver with Mario on it, but they are in space. In the same second that Luigi throws it, The Star Driver is back at land in less than 5 seconds.
        This really makes Mario’s Reaction feats very fast. It’s really a matter of time Mario laid a blow on Sonic.

        Since Mario’s durability is way superior to Sonic’s, Mario can tank many attacks from Sonic. I mean, Mario survived a castle explosion right to the face, but he was unscathed. Even better, at the opening of Mario Power Tennis. Bowser blew up the entire Tennis stadium, which Mario was in and guess what? He was completely unharmed.

        Mario has a wider arsenal of power ups that can simply counter Sonic’s speed and forms.
        Mario can use the stopwatch to freeze time and that way takes care of Sonic.
        Mario can Freeze Sonic completely or turn him into Gold.
        And lastly, He can use the Star to turn completely invincible that not even Super Sonic or Hyper Sonic would be able to harm him. The Star may have a limited time of invincibility but he can use the Invincibility leaf or the Invincibility bell that do give him unlimited invincibility. Just as shown in Mario 3D world and 3D Land.
        Mario just has the perfect counters for Sonic’s abilities.

      • Nah Sonic’s got this one in the bag. I get what you’re saying about the space stuff but you have to look at the overall context here. Mario was not fast enough to run to the castle and save Peach when it counted. He was just way too slow there. Additionally he doesn’t have the power to seal in a victory nor the durability to tank that magic blast at the beginning of Mario Galaxy. What this means is that when push comes to shove Mario is going to get absolutely devastated by Sonic here. Sonic can just keep going full blast as he always does and Mario won’t be able to keep up. He just lacks the overall speed and power. Sonic has proven himself on all occasions.

  35. Mario not arriving in time to save the princess is always part of his games. I mean, how can we be able to enjoy Mario’s games when Mario already saves Peach in the beginning? Saving peach is the whole point of Mario Games.
    You are heavily underestimating Mario. He is no regular plumber, the guy has dealt with literal gods before, able to survive massive explosions to the face, and lift castles and kick them like if it’s a soccer ball. He is one of the Star children which are given divine power.

    Mario threw a Baseball so fast that it overloaded a speed gun. Something similar happened in the Sonic Movie where a speed gun captured Sonic’s speed but it didn’t get overloaded. Still very slow for you? He ate an entire dinosaur and hurled it out to space in just seconds!
    Mario is not faster than Sonic but still his reaction speed can help him very much.
    Mario was able to dodge bullets, meteors in space, able to move as electricity, and pilot the Star Driver which I already told you that when Giant Luigi threw it in space, The Star Driver was already in land in just 3 seconds!

    Mario is way more durable than Sonic. In fact, Sonic has shown little feats of durability or strength.
    Mario survived a castle explosion to the face but acted like it just tickled and survived a big explosion that destroyed an entire Tennis Stadium. Mario would sure be able to tank many hits from Sonic

    No matter how many unvaluable arguments you make up, you can’t deny the facts.

    Mario’s arsenal can perfectly counter Sonic

    He can use the Stopwatch to freeze time. Sonic has shown no resistance to Time Stop so you can’t say that the Stopwatch won’t help.

    Mario can freeze Sonic completely with the Ice flower or turn him into gold with the Gold Flower.

    Mario can use the Metal cap to become even more durable and take a beating from Sonic.

    With the Star he becomes invincible. The guide of Mario Bros clearly says it, In Smash we can see that even Super Sonic was not able to do any effects on the Star. The Star has limited invincibility but like I said a trillion times. Mario can just use the invincibility bell or the invincibility leaf and he does get unlimited invincibility.

    Sonic has no way of being able to pass through Mario’s arsenal.

    Deal with it fanboy.

    • I have dealt with it though and that’s why I say Sonic wins here. He’s way too fast for Mario at all times. Imagine what he could do with a few good homing attacks? That would be absolutely game over for sure. It’s curtains for Mario because he just doesn’t have what it takes to match Super Sonic. We’re not just talking about the man who will become the fastest blue blur in all of media. We’re talking about a hedgehog who has overcome many powerful fighters like gods and all. Mario has trouble with Koopas, what makes you think he could beat this legendary hero?

      • Mario has dealt with gods too. And Bowser threatened the entire galaxy yet Mario fights him like all day.
        Miyamoto even said that Bowser is the most powerful foe Mario ever faced. How could you understand that Mario’s durability is way superior to Sonic’s? Mario survived that Tennis Stadium explosion, which must equal to 2.4 megatons of TNT. Sonic’s punches are not that powerful, Mario is way too tough and could certainly tank many hits. Mario was strong enough to lift castles and kick them, he even literally stomped one to the ground. He pulled a giant chomp in Sunshine, Chain Chomps are made of pure metal and even when it turned gold, Mario is still able to pull it like nothing. Gold has an atomic weight of 196.96657 u.
        Mario has some impressive reaction speed. He was able to dodge meteors and move as electricity. That should kinda help him with Sonic’s speed.
        Super Sonic is very incredible but Mario can use the Star that could make him invincible for the Trillion time. Stop repeating the same excuse, I already made my good points that Mario has the counters for Sonic, even for Super.
        In Smash we see that even Super Sonic has no effect for The Star power up. How can you explain that?
        Mario is no ordinary plumber, to be honest he is technically like a demigod.

      • Mario is not an ordinary plumber, that’s true but he’s still got ordinary stats for the most part. He can move fast and throw a good punch of course but at the end of the day that isn’t enough to handle Sonic. As for Bowser, he just isn’t very fast. He would have a hard time keeping up. Same with Mario who does have better speed but he’s not in the same conversation as my main man Sonic. Sonic can just spin dash from side to side as he shows the world the true power of the Hedgehog. Yeah that’s right, Sonic is just on a different level here.

        For Super Smash bros that’s gameplay mechanics. Super Sonic would punch Mario out with or without the star tbh

  36. Fanboys this days….
    Sonic is faster, I admit that but Mario’s reaction can help him with that. Just like his power ups too.
    Mario is way tough and strong for Sonic to beat easily as you say. Mario has tanked an entire explosion of 2.4 megatons of TNT. Sonic’s punches are not that strong since he almost never shows any feat of strength. Mario on the other hand has: He is able to kick castles and stomp them to the ground, he was able to pull chain chomps that are obviously heavy even when they are gold.
    Sonic really has no good way of dealing with Mario’s arsenal. Mario has the perfect counters for his speed and to overpower him.

    Super Sonic can’t punch Mario out of his Star form because Sonic has never shown to be able to punch through invincibility. Not even Archie Sonic who is the most powerful version of Sonic.

    The Guide of Super Mario Brothers says that the Star does grant Mario Invincibility and Mario has even shown it since when he gains it, nothing can kill him. No matter what excuse you come out, you can’t change that fact.
    Mario just has Sonic all figured out.

    Bowser is fast for the love of god. What part of: ”Escaped a Black Hole don’t you understand?”
    Bowser has been able to outrun a black hole on many occasions like in: Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and Inside Story. Nothing can escape a black hole, not even light. This makes Bowser MFTL speed.
    You can’t find any good points to prove he isn’t MFTL.
    Just admit it.

    • In this case the speed is a lot more important than the power aspect. Okay, put it this way. Mario is super strong physically and I can give you that but it doesn’t matter because he’ll never hit Sonic. Sonic is so much faster than light that Sonic may as well be standing still. He won’t have any opportunity to use his power to his advantage.

      As for the power star, there is no such thing as complete invincibility so we have to instead take that as super endurance. Still really handy of course but noting that Sonic hasn’t seen before. In his Super Sonic form he will still be able to punch Mario out at every turn and that would be game over. There is just no way to stop him.

      As for Bowser, I still go back to how he can’t seem to even outrun Mario. You have to take into account what makes sense along with the feats. It’s one of the best ways to make sure you don’t overlook Toon Force and count it by mistake. Bowser’s always been known as a very slow character and that’s been consistent from the start. He just uses magic to try and trick Mario.

      • Oh, but Mario can even deal with Sonic’s speed. Have you heard of ”time freezing”? Yeah, that’s right. Mario has a power up that can freeze time. Sonic has never shown been able to resist time freeze. Mario can just stop time and deal with Sonic while he is frozen. Plus, Mario is quick on reaction since he is able to dodge meteors, travel as electricity, and be able to pilot the Star Driver. Mario’s arsenal just shuts down Sonic’s abilities.
        Mario can overpower Sonic by freezing his solid or turning him into gold.
        Just what proof do you have that the star only makes Mario more durable? Yeah, sorry man but I don’t speak “Bullshinese.” The guide of Super Mario Brothers says that the Star does make him invincible, it says that on many occasions. Sonic can’t punch through invincibility. Just deal with it, bro.

        The Saga of Mario Brothers isn’t toonforce.
        It’s like saying that Daredevil belongs in DC just because he is kinda like Batman and he doesn’t appear in the MCU.
        Bowser is MFTL speed. How can you explain that he was able to outrun a black hole in both MG2 and Inside Story? Bowser is fast, it’s just that he doesn’t really use that speed constantly. But after that Black Hole escaping we can totally say Bowser is also way faster than light.

      • Okay so with the time freezing it’s an interesting ability for sure. It also depends how you consider time control. Is freezing time just the act of slowing it down a ton and you can speed through it or is it literally frozen? I tend to believe the former and so Sonic would still be fast enough to stop Mario. Yes, the speed is that drastic which is absolutely crazy but shows why Sonic is such a threat. I don’t see Mario being able to overcome that.

        I do think you should learn that language since it’ll come in handy here but either way there isn’t anything that’s true invincibility. It just means slightly augmented durability and that isn’t enough to get past Sonic. No sir! Sonic is still going to punch through all of that. I hear you on the Daredevil angle but it’s still good that he’s in Marvel.

        For Bowser my explanation is that he has never shown any kind of super speed when fighting Mario. Not in the games, comics, movies, shows, etc. So that means he just isn’t fast and the black hole scene was likely him using magic or Rosalina saving him. It all makes more sense than him suddenly being FTL

  37. The Stop Watch completely stops time. Nothing moves while it except Mario, Mario is obviously the only one who can still move through it.
    Sonic is very fast but he hasn’t shown to be able to resist time stops. See? this is what I mean that the power ups of Mario simply puts Sonic out of choices. Mario’s arsenal counter Sonic abilities, even his Super forms.

    Believe it or not the Star does make Mario invincible, just check the damn section of power ups. There it says that when you gain the Star you become invincible. And it shows that when Mario completely destroys anything by touching it and nothing does damage to him. You don’t have any good points to show the opposite. Sonic can’t punch through invincibility, even the Archie Sonic hasn’t shown to be able to do that. Plus, even if Sonic goes Super let’s not forget that the Super Form has a time limit, even though the Star also has a time limit of invincibility, Mario can use the Invincibility Bell or the Invincibility leaf that do grant him unlimited invincibility.

    Now I remember something, in Inside Story Bowser was fast enough to burn all of his fat in a treadmill in just seconds. He was also fast enough to push a Giant Drill Machine very fast.
    This is other proof to show Bowser’s speed. He is MFTL speed. He just now uses that speed often.
    What makes you think Bowser was using magic to escape that Black Hole? In MG2 we don’t see him use magic. Bowser may know how to use Magic but we don’t see him using magic in the Black Hole scene. We just see him flying around it while fighting Mario and not getting sucked by the black hole. In Inside Story we also see him outrun a Black Hole. Search in Youtube for the Peach Castle fight and there you would see that the Peach Castle Robot throws a Black Hole at Bowser, but Bowser is able to escape from it even when he is Giant.
    Bowser is MFTL

    • I’m still not convinced on the time stops and let me explain why. Time is one of those concepts that’s always around even when it’s turned off. So you can slow it down or make it appear like it’s not even moving but really all it is is more like a time slow. If your opponent is more powerful than you are or if they have a sufficient amount of speed then the time stop will not be effective. That’s the way that I see it at least. Struggle all they like but in the end it won’t be enough to stop Sonic. That’s why Sonic is going to win this round. He’s the best all around fighter and the time freeze can’t stop that.

      As for Bowser, well he is never fast enough to even run away from Mario so why do you think he can be FTL? He’s always been portrayed as a very slow villain and that makes the most sense. It’s what makes you have to look at the Mario galaxy games in a whole different light. How could he have made such a big jump in such a short amount of time? The only explanations are Toon Force and magic, both of which don’t work as well in place of true speed.

      Finally for the invincibility part, there is no such thing as complete invincibility. All it does is make you more durable which is still great of course but that’s a huge difference compared to just saying that it’s the way it goes. So lets focus on the power star for a moment there. It is strong but there’s a reason why Mario doesn’t bother to use them for the entirety of the game. It’s because the star has limits and he doesn’t want the villains to realize this. That makes the most amount of sense.

      • So what you’re telling me is that only because you think Sonic is more powerful and faster than Mario means that he will be able to resist the Stop Watch. Looooool.
        Tbh that is no good point. The stopwatch freezes time completely, nothing moves while it, so it does stop time eventually. Sonic hasn’t show to be able to resist time freeze. Just because we see he is very fast doesn’t mean that we should be completely sure he can resist time stop.
        You are all thinking Sonic is unbeatable just because of his speed but even Sonic has limits.
        Speed isn’t what it matters all the time, especially when your opponent has the counter for it. Mario’s arsenal it’s just the key.

        Bowser has shown to be slow some times but still after time we see how Bowser shows us his true power. Bowser still escaped that black hole and no one can tell if he used magic because we don’t see him do that. You are saying a lot of innacurate and uncannon things. Bowser flew around that Black hole without getting sucked and we don’t see him use magic, so the best thing to say is that Bowser is MFTL even when he is kinda slow. But in Inside Story he Also escaped a Black Hole even when he was in Giant mode. How can you explain that. Like it or not, Bowser is MFTL speed.

        Now, don’t you think that the real reason Mario doesn’t use the star all times is because of the mechanics? We would pass all levels easily if we gain the star all the time. Just face it, The power up section does say that the star gives Mario invincibility. Don’t believe it all you want but it’s true. The star has a time limit but that still doesn’t change the fact that the star gives Mario invincibility and it has proveen that all the time.
        Sonic’s super forms Also have limits yo. And guess what? Mario has 2 power ups that gives Mario unlimited invincibility, which is the Invincibility bell and the invincibility leaf.
        Sonic can’t punch through invincibility. This is the reason why Mario’s power ups shut down Sonic’s options

      • Yeah pure speed is enough to break out of time stop/time control. It’s why being fast is one of the best super powers out there. With it there are almost no limits as you can do what you want and keep it moving. It’s honestly rather impressive but also intimidating at the same time. So Mario loses virtually everything in his arsenal at that point. At best he can use the power star but as I’ve said, it’s not true invincibility. Sonic can just punch him out of that mode and that will be it for him. You can’t hope to beat a good offense with defense.

        As for Bowser, Bowser just used magic to escape. Remember that he’s not FTL or even supersonic in terms of speed. He is casually handled by Mario all the time at normal speed. I’m telling you, Bowser doesn’t have super speed like that. It just wouldn’t make sense and would go against his character

  38. Since when Sonic resisted time stop? You can’t just tell that Sonic is able to resist time stop just because of his speed. That is innacurate, just like all the things you said. Mario has better defense with his power ups. He has the Metal Cap making him more durable, The feather to fly, etc. My point is that since Mario has a much wider arsenal, he has more options to deal with Sonic. Like the quadrillion counters that I just said but you don’t have the capacity to think about it because of your ” Sonic Fanboy delusions”
    How can you explain to me that the Star doesn’t make Mario Invincible? Let me guess, because your ” fanboyness” doesn’ t let you see that? You clearly haven’t play a single Mario Game. The power up section says that the Star does make Mario invincibility.
    So you just better grab that information and shove it where it fits in your body.
    Sonic can’t punch through invincibility. Even the Archie Sonic hasn’t prove to do that.

    You just don’t wanna face it. Bowser didn’t use any magic to escape that Black Hole. Where do we see him do that? Bowser escaped that black hole either you like it or not. Bowser kept up with Starship Mario who can travel through entire universes in seconds. He is massively MFTL.
    Bowser is ale to move in the void. The Void is nothingness manifested, there is no light in there, everything is completely immobilize there. If you are there you instantly die. Yet, Bowser moves in it just fine. This proves he has infinite speed.
    Your points are innacurate. So go grab a book and learn new things, dipshit.

    • Pure speed is always able to resist time travel. It’s one of the laws of reality and even if we don’t like it, it’s something that we ultimately have to start trying to accept after a while. It just be like that sometimes and it’s kind of crazy but also inspiring at the same time. I just need you to trust me on this but Mario’s got nothing on Sonic. The metal cap isn’t doing anything because Sonic is too fast.

      Incorrect, it’s not that I’m being a big Sonic fan but I’m spitting out facts faster than cheese on rye bread. I’m just saying that there is no such thing as invincibility so what Mario is doing is amping up his durability which is good, but not good enough. He would absolutely get devastated if he tried going up against Super Sonic like that. The star isn’t invincibility and I can prove it. Just look at how the sky never ends. It’s the same with invincibility not being real.

      Bowser gets outsped by Mario and a bunch of random people with no powers. You’re completely underestimating his abilities here. He may be the King of the Koopa, but that’s not enough when going up against Nintendo’s heroes!

      I’m the biggest Bowser expert I know and even I think you’re overestimating him a bit. Just think it over and I believe you will agree with me

      • Ugghhhhhh, I am getting really tired of your BULLSHIT.
        Tell me atleast one time Sonic resisted time stop. What? Got Nothing? Yeah of course you don’t.
        You can’t just say that Sonic is immune to time stop when he never has shown that.
        Gran a Dictionary and look for the word innacurate.
        It’s clear to me you just come up with whatever excuse you come up.
        The metal cap can help Mario to make him more durable if he has some trouble with Sonic.
        Sonic may be faster but Mario has some quick reaction since he can travel as electricity, dodge meteors, and travel the Star Driver.
        And you still have no good point of why the star doesn’t make Mario invincible. Just search in fucking Google and see what freaking ability does the Star give Mario.
        Like it or not, the Star does make Mario Invincible.
        DEAL WITH IT.

        OK, Smartass then how can you explain to me how Bowser escaped that Black Hole in Inside Story too when he was Giant?
        And say something accuarte for once in your life.
        Don’t expect me to agree with you when you don’t know any shit about Bowser’s true feats.
        Bowser kept up with Starship Mario who can travel through entire universes in seconds!
        That makes him MFTL.

        Wake up to reality Boomer.

      • I’m just spitting out facts tho. Okay lets take this point by point. Sonic can resist time stop because he’s really fast. You don’t need anything more than that, just go full blast and there is no time that can stop you. It becomes a numbers game and Sonic has all of the numbers. It’s why he is called the Blue Blur! The master of faster, and all the other titles.

        As for the metal cap, it still isn’t enough to protect him from Super Sonic. I googled the power star and it does say invincibility but we know that just means enhanced durability. If he was invincible, why do you think Mario doesn’t just carry a bunch of them everywhere he goes? It’s because he knows that he is in major danger all the time and it makes him feel bad. It’s tragic but I totally get it.

        As for the Bowser scene, he probably used magic. Magic that would ensure his own survival even if it meant using a lot of energy. That’s why it had to happen. Now you may not agree with me on the rest but I think we can at least agree that it was magic that allowed him to keep up with the starship. Otherwise that would have been game over.

        Boomer like the tv show? I dunno I’ve been up a while!

  39. You are still not answering my question.
    When did Sonic resist time stop?
    Atleast tell me 1 time he did that and I am cool with you. Okay?

    We have seen Sonic do crazy things but since when he reíste time stop? Just tell me.

    I admit the metal cap can’t help Mario from Golden Sonic but still Mario has more ways of defense against Sonic because of his wider arsenal.
    Like: He can turn giant with the mega mushroom, the feather to fly, the invisible flower to become invisible, etc.

    ou finally searched up for the star? Ok, good so now you must know the star does make Mario invincible.
    And the games have shown that.
    Once Mario gains the star. Nothing kills him, He is immune to anything and destroys everything he touches.

    And don’t you think the reason why Mario never carries the star all the time is because of the mechanics of the game?

    How can you tell Bowser escaped the Black Hole with magic. In what scene does he do that or where does it says that?
    And just answer me already how Bowser also escaped a black hole in Inside Story too even when he was in Giant mode? Explain yourself.

    You are gonna need better reasons to convince me, man.

    • Sonic hasn’t shown a time resist before but he doesn’t need to. It’s built into all realities that speed can trump time stop. That’s why Sonic wins this one. It’s because he has the speed to get past any and all obstacles. He’s pretty much broken in that sense because nobody can stop him. Even the most powerful time magic would not be able to shut him down.

      Right the metal cap won’t work and same with the mushrooms. All of those fruits you listed won’t be enough because Sonic is just too fast. As for the power star, again that’s only enhanced durability. It’s not going to protect Mario from super powerful blows like what Sonic has. The reason Sonic wins is because his stats are on a completely different level. Mario won’t be able to land any counters because of the speed difference.

      As for Bowser, I can tell because of his body of work. He’s consistently shown to be a very slow character and that’s why he is a power type in all of the games. Mario is faster and that guy is only peak human. So what you’re looking at is just magic, tricks, and illusions. I think I’ve probably convinced you now but if that didn’t, here’s my big trump card. Bowser is portrayed well in the TV show and even there he is shown to be very slow. That’s game set and match

      • Ok there, you finally admit it. Sonic hasn’t shown to resist any time stop.
        You can’t say Sonic is completely immune to time stop when he hasn’t shown it, Enstein. That is innacurate.
        Until you have real proof, Sonic isn’t immune to time stop Cause he hasn’t shown it.
        Easy as that.

        Sonic may be faster but still Mario has fast reaction.
        He dodged meteors, traveled as electricity, and pilot the Star Driver. That can help him with Sonic’s speed. And Mario can Time stop everything and give the fatal blow to Sonic.

        Stop coming up with excuses. Now that you have seen that the Star does make Mario invincible in Google, you just have to admit it does.
        Once Mario gains the star, literally nothing kills him. He destroys anything he
        touches. The power up section of Mario Bros even says that the Star does give Mario invincibility.
        Deny it all you want but You can’t change that.

        Mario’s arsenal just gives him many options to win the fight.

        You are still not answering the questions. If Bowser is really slow, then how did he escape that black hole in Inside Story when he was Giant? What? You are gonna tell me that some kind of angel came down from heaven and protected him?
        Tell me in what part do we see Bowser using Magic there or where does it says that?
        Yeah, what it seems to me is that you are just coming up with whatever crazy excuse your mind thinks of.
        You know nothing about Bowser, Do researches before commenting.

      • I explained that already though. Sufficient speed will always counter time manipulation. That’s how it has been since the dawn of time so Sonic doesn’t have to show off any abilities of his own. It’s built into the concept of speed and why Sonic has the power.

        Mario’s reaction times aren’t great. He got absolutely devastated by Petey Piranha and his telegraphed hit as well as got crushed by Kamek’s magic blast in the Galaxy intro. He’s only got human stats and would be getting wrecked by base Sonic.

        As for the star, it’s not invincible though. I explained earlier but there’s no such thing as invincibility so Mario is getting wrecked here. He’s not ready for this kind of power. Honestly, I’m not sure that I’m ready for it either but I have to try. Sonic is just too powerful so he could knock Mario out of the star form. Sonic’s just way too fast and too furious to lose.

        As for Bowser, he used some magic or maybe an angel protected him like Rosalina. We just know it wasn’t speed because Bowser’s slow. He’s not as fast as Mario who can’t even run as fast as super fast speedsters. Bowser is out of luck in the speed department and trust me, it feels bad but I’ve learned to cope with it over time. I know a lot about Bowser which is why it saddens me to have to say that he loses this round badly when it comes to speed

      • You do have to actually show evidence for your claims you know that right? You can’t just say Sonic’s speed counters time manipulation because of your own assertions.

        Hitchens Razor my guy which is

        “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”

        The burden of proof is on you to prove Sonic can specifically counter time manipulation, and if you can’t, the argument must be dropped.

      • I did though, didn’t I link the Hit vs Goku fight earlier? It’s the perfect example of why time stop isn’t enough sometimes. There’s also Mickey Mouse vs Xehanort from KH BBS if we need that one. The point is that time manipulation is not enough here. It can slow Sonic down a bit but ultimately it’s not stopping him. Sonic is just way too powerful and fast

  40. Exactly. You have to prove that Sonic has escaped time cannonly.
    You can’t just say Sonic is immune to time stop just like that. That is just your opinion, not a fact.
    You must have proof, you 3 year old. And since you admit it that Sonic hasn’t shown to be immune to time stop, then the Stop Watch power up would help Mario alot with Sonic’s speed.

    Since when Mario lost to Petey Pirahna. Also, Super Sonic lost to Eggman who is just a human in the intro of Sonic Unleashed.

    Mario is no where near being a human.
    You heavily underestimate the Mario Verse.
    Mario has defeated Multiversal level beings and he kicked away a neutron star in Mario Galaxy.
    He has kicked giant castles.

    Sonic is faster than Mario, but Mario is way stronger and durable which can be a problem to Sonic.

    Mario survived the Tennis Stadium Explosion which is equivalente to: 2.4 megatons of TNT. He survived Castle explosions to the face. And also survived attacks from Bowser who can punch through meteors.
    Bowser punched Peach’s castle so hard that it went around the Planet’s Orbit in seconds.
    Bowser’s punch force must be stronger than the most powerful explosion in history… Which is the TSAR Bomba.

    Sonic has shown little feats of Strength.
    Mario can carry and kick castles, he can even stomp them to the ground. He can pull giant Chomp Chains which are obviously heavy.
    And I already told you that Mario’s arsenal counters Sonic’s abilities.
    Mario has better ways of defense.
    Mario can turn invisible with the invisible flower, he can turn giant, he can use the metal cap to become more durable, use the feather to fly, etc.
    Mario can even over power Sonic with his power ups
    Like: He can freeze his solid with the ice flower or turn him into gold with the golden flower.

    Well, you just better accept it. The Power section says clearly that The Star gives Mario invincibility and the Games prove it. It has shown that over time.
    You can’t deny that.
    Sonic can’t punch through invincibility even the Archie Sonic can’t.
    The Star gives Mario invincibility.
    End of argue. Accept it.

    For fuck’s sake man! In what part does Bowser use magic to escape the black hole?! I have seen that black hole scene a trillion times and I don’t see him do that! It doesn’t say that on the guide.
    You are just coming up with innacurate excuses. Bowser escaped that black hole without any help. We don’t see Rosalía protect Bowser and it said on the guide that Rosalía only protected Mario and Peach. She was gonna let Bowser die. But still Bowser survived.
    Even when he was Giant, he Also escaped a black hole in Inside Story. We don’t see him use any magic.
    Bowser escaping the Black Hole with magic is just your theory not a fact.
    Bowser is MFTL. Bowser kept up with Starship Mario who can travel through entire universes in seconds and he can Also move in the void. The Void is nothingness manifested, The notion of the void is relevant to several realms of metaphysics. There is no light there, everything is completely immobilize. If you are there you instantly die. Yet, Bowser moved in there just fine.
    This proves Bowser has infinite speed.

    • I think I’ve gotta clear some things up here. First, Bowser’s not MFTL, the guy isn’t even super fast. He’s got normal speed at best and below average speed at worst. The man can’t even keep up with Mario the whole time and Mario’s not fast. That’s how we know that he didn’t escape the black hole with pure speed. I say magic but you could also just say that the void and black holes in the Mario universe run on different properties. It’s certainly an option at least that we could consider here. Not sure how much I would end up buying it but that’s something I’d throw out there.

      Bowser just doesn’t have the feats to back it up. You gotta take the scene in context of the character at large and we know that Bowser’s not pulling any of this stuff off. He’s a tough guy but with fairly low stats.

      As for the power star, there’s no such thing as invincibility so we have to assume that it works more like a durability booster. Think of it like Haki or Ki. Yeah it’s really good as a defense and I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that but at the same time it’s definitely not the all powerful boost that the games want you to think it is. No shot! That’s just the kind of abilities that we have to watch out for at all times because we might scale Mario too high by mistake as a result.

      Mario lost to Petey Piranha in Super Smash Bros. I’m surprised you don’t remember that scene as it was a pivotal moment in Mario’s career. He would then go on to get one shotted by Tabuu while Bowser got low diffed by King Dedede. That game is the best one for scaling.

      As for Sonic, I already provided evidence via the Goku vs Hit battle. Timestop is not going to do anything to a fighter this powerful. When you’ve got speed then you can get past anything.

      It’s a good sidenote because I first became a Mario/Bowser expert after completing Mario 64 and I did think they were pretty impressive. Not supersonic speeds or city busters or anything like that but they had a lot of moxy and grit. I could trust them to have my back at all times and that was pure hype confirmed.

      • It needs to be Sonic specifically doing that with time manipulation. You’re not allowed to use other universes as evidence that Sonic is capable of what Goku is. You’ve been told this many times in many situations that using battles from other universes is not proof of anything other than that character from that universe accomplishing something. Goku vs Hit is irrelevant in whether Sonic can do what you say he can. It’s not even scaling to other characters in universe, it’s scaling to a completely different and unrelated universe.

        I post Hitchens’ razor once again: What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

        It needs to be evidence from Sonic source material showing Sonic can accomplish this. If you cannot, drop the argument.

      • I get what you’re saying but it’s still the same thing no matter what universe you’re in. If time stop could affect Sonic, then why hasn’t Shadow used it to stop him already? The reason he hasn’t is because it just wouldn’t work. Sonic is the master of faster, the blue blur, the fastest in the universe, etc. With his powers there is nothing that he can’t do. His abilities are absolutely crazy and that’s why it’s hard to picture time stop doing anything to him. Sonic is just on a different level and cannot be stopped. His heroics are matched only by his future potential.

        So that may have gone off into a tangent a bit but the point is that there is absolutely no way to take a clean win against Sonic. He has defenses in place for every kind of attack and that’s not even counting his Super Sonic mode. If we count that into the equation? Oh man…..oh man this is not going to be good. It multiplies all of his abilities as if this was a Super Saiyan transformation. Doesn’t matter who he’s fighting, that opponent is getting rocked and it’s not going to be pretty. It’s something even I get a little terrified of because Sonic’s such an important staple in the video game community.

      • Mario not fast?
        Hahahaha, Very funny… Wait you are not kidding?
        Like I said: Worst Researcher I have ever seen

        Mario has dodged meteors and that makes him
        hypersonic, he has moved electricity, and pilot the Star Driver.
        When Giant Luigi throws the Star Driver,
        Giant Luigi jumped into Distant Constellations in a time frame second and threw the Star Driver in space! In, just 2 seconds the Star Driver was already back in land and Mario pilots it just fine.

        In MG1, The black hole was create by the sun explosion. When a Sun explodes, a black hole is created. That proves the Mario Verse has the same kinds of black holes that we have.
        Yet, Bowser survived that Black Hole and that Black Hole was huge!

        In the final battle of MG2, we see that both Mario and Bowser were fighting while a black hole was behind them. And they didn’t get sucked.
        Bowser was flying around the Black Hole like nothing like if he didn’t even know it was behind him.
        That Makes Bowser MFTL.
        Checkmate.
        And he didn’t use any magic, we don’t see him do that.
        That is just your theory, not a fact.

        Also, Mario got knocked by a Cannonball, not by Petey.
        And once again, Smash isn’t cannon.
        Plus, Super Sonic got defeated by Eggman who is just a human in Sonic Unleashed.

        You don’t have any proof that the Star is just a durability booster. Meanwhile the Games have shown the opposite.
        All the time when Mario gains the star, he is literally immune to anything.
        He isn’t killed by anything or anyone.
        And the power up section says that the Star does grant invincibility.
        You cannot deny the games, man!
        You just gotta accept.

        You still have to show a time where Sonic has escaped cannonly. If not, then how can we be so sure?

        Just because Sonic is fast doesn’t mean he is
        unbeatable. Sonic has limits to.

        It’s like how Dyspo is fast but he still gets rekt by Goku.

      • Nooo, I’m one of the best researchers, that’s what I’ve been saying. As for Sonic escaping time control, it’s because speed beats time so we don’t need any specific examples here. We already know that Sonic is the blue blur, the fastest guy around. What he says goes and right now I think he’s finna do something special. No time is going to stop him.

        Dyspo is a good example as he was so fast that Hit’s time couldn’t stop him.

        As for the star, there’s no such thing as invincibility which is why we know that it was a durability booster. Put it this way, if it wasn’t then what else could it do? When invincibility is out the window we have to assume the next most logical step and in this case that’s the booster.

        Mario still gets wrecked all the time by fairly slow moves and he is faster than Bowser so Bowser’s not FTL. I wouldn’t even put Bowser as supersonic to be honest as we see how slow the guy is. He’s not outrunning any decently fast fighter and that’s why he wouldn’t stand a chance against Sonic. Probably wouldn’t even be able to keep up with his movements.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.