Knuckles vs Bowser


Bowser Knuckles
Bowser is powerful, but he won’t be able to take Knuckles out of the fight. Knuckles can definitely overpower Bowser in a fist fight and his speed is also a lot greater. Knuckles would overwhelm Bowser with his hand to hand combat skills and eventually the King of the Koopas would be soundly defeated. Knuckles wins.

291 thoughts on “Knuckles vs Bowser

  1. Knuckles:Do You Know De Wae Me Brudda?

    Bowser: What Is The Way? I Don’t Understand. And I’m Not Your “Brudda.”

    Knuckles:Den You Are A False Idol. I Spit On You. *sps-too*

    Knuckles Knows De Wae, So He Wins.

      • I can’t agree to that. Mario routinely has difficulty with guys like Koopa and Goomba. You can’t say the same for Sonic

      • You are underastimating Mario. Mario has a bigger arsenal than sonic and his more versatile, more durable, and more stronger and has more experience so Mario wins.

      • Mario has a wider arsenal which I will admit. That said, I’d still say that’s where it starts to be over for him. Sonic’s speed is just way too insane. There’s nothing Mario can really do to keep up with Sonic or match him blow for blow. Ultimately that’s where this match is going to go south for him.

      • Ok, Sonic is more faster (obviously) but Sonic speed would not be able to handle Mario’s strength, durability, expierence, arsenal, and better versatlity. There are many power ups that would help Mario finish sonic like: Froze his solid, or turn him into gold etc. And Mario has used the star driver that can match sonic speed. If sonic turn super or hyper its would have a limited time. Mario can even use the star that turn him invincible for a limited time but that power up would be enough to finish Sonic. The winner is Mario

      • The speed is enough though. The only times when Speed is not enough to compensate for strength is when the other opponent is so durable that the speedster can’t hurt him. It’s part of why someone like Quicksilver wouldn’t be able to stop Frieza. Or if the speed is close enough like Thor vs Quicksilver where one hit is all you need. In this case, Mario can’t do anything to keep up. Mario’s star makes him a lot more durable but not invincible as seen when King Boo took him down in Luigi’s Mansion. At most it’ll buy him some time but not enough to take down Super Sonic. Sonic does have a time limit but that won’t be a factor due to how quickly the match would be over

      • Not when your opponent has more expierence and supports hits from Mario. Plus Knuckles was beated by Sonic while Bowser beated Mario once and Mario is more powerful than sonic so thats another reason why Bowser is superior

  2. I disagree. Knuckles power gives him the ability to turn super knuckles under the same circumstances that sonic and shadow can turn super sonic and super shadow. But I still do not believe he could win even with that power. And it wasn’t even used here!

    Allow me to explain. Mario is a formidable foe which goes toe to toe with bowser and usually comes out the victor. But one would have to think that each time he loses harshly that he would become tougher due to battle experience. Which he has more of no matter how you judge it due to Mario being a game for more years than sonic games.

    Aside from battle experience (which I am aware knuckles also has a lot of) bowser is purely more resilient! Knuckles is shown in a new cartoon series to be able to punch the ground hard enough to cause a volcanic eruption. Assuming that is an accurate measure of power and not just for show we can clarify that knuckles is incredibly strong! But strong enough to subdue bowser who has survived a black hole, a city sized castle falling in him and many dips in lava. I think not. Mario’s power in super Mario Galaxy that enables hid to spin with his fists spread out can break through several blacks of brick at once! All being several feet thick, which he can do as many times as he pleases! And spinning in such a way would not deliver as much force as a normal punch. Therefore if Mario were to punch with this power it could be around half the power of knuckles volcanic punch. And bowser can take these punches for nearly forever! And we’re assuming knuckles can throw many of these volcanic punches in quick succession. If knuckles can do that and amplify his power in super form then each punch in his super form could equal a high magnitude earthquake! That is powerful! But as power as the pressure from a black hole? No.

    And after super Mario 64 bowser had almost always been using magic to make Mario’s journey even more difficult. He could use this to become giant in his fight with knuckles! While retaining his fighting skills and endurance! Not to mention his fireballs can burn hotter that any other natural fire and they can home in on his enemies. Add his shell that knuckles couldn’t penetrate even if he wanted to and his spikes which can in fact “shoot out of his shell like missiles” and you’ve got a debunked 1 minute Melee. And no knuckles doesn’t have a hyper form. And his underground game could be deadly for him once bowser caught on.

    • In response to Jman,

      I will assume you have not read the Archic comics cannon for Sonic, so I’ll try to do a half decent summary for you;
      In one story, Knuckles learns before he was born, his father, Locke, bombarded the egg he was in with “Chaos Energy” before he hatched. “What is Chaos Energy?” you may ask, well, to put it simply, it allows someone to be close to the level of a god in terms of raw power, granting one the power to freely control time, space, reality, and multiply one’s physical powers to a near infinite degree. (There are a lot of powers that can be listed here, but that would take a while).

      With this power, he nearly lost control, but later when he “died,” the energy was sent back to where it came from, being a realm where the gods of the Archie cannon live, the Chaos Realm. Even though he lost his god-like powers, he would later regain them when he touched the cursed Master Emerald thanks to Dr. Finitevus. Anyway, with this power, he was just as strong as or possibly even stronger, than Enerjak, one of the few Archie villains who was always defeated with some sort of extreme plot hax.

      Enerjak was able to manipulate matter, reality, space, time, and Knuckles only held this power for a short while, yet still he could use just as great as Enerjak could. The point is, I do not believe Bowser could defeat such a foe with little to no resistance to reality manipulation. Knuckles could just age Bowser with his mastery over time, or send him into another dimension if he did not want to bother with fighting him. Unless Bowser has some crazy high level feats I am unaware of, Knuckles will not even have to flex his muscles.

      Thank you for taking the time to read this long post.

      Signed, Super Dark Shadow.

    • Hmm, I think one thing to consider though is that some of Bowser’s feats aren’t actually serious like him surviving from space. The Mario series lies within some comedy feats as well as the serious ones. As such, the characters can appear to be a little higher tier than they actually are at times.

    • I agree that Bowser will win but Bowser´s punches are very powerful too. He can beat Dark Bowser wich is a god in just a few punches and not to mention that time that Bowser punched Peach´s castle so hard that send it to a tour around the planet in seconds. He is more durable too he survived many things such as: Black holes, lava, the sun, a supernova, the destruction of a universe etc. Alternate forms: Dry Bowser, Giga Bowser, Giant Bowser, Hammer slam Bowser and his most powerful form Dreamy Bowser, Knuckles could turn hyper or super but for a limited time and those two forms wouldn´t be able to handle Dreamy Bowser so yeah Bowser wins.

  3. Pretty sure Jman did not see my comment. I was going to include more information, but I guess it does not matter much.

    Signed, Super Dark Shadow.

      • I agree with you on the topic of the Mario franchise having a lot of “real” feats and “comedic” feats. Bowser is strong, but his strength is difficult to gauge, sadly.

        Signed, Super Dark Shadow.

      • No, no, and no, Bowser would be able to handle Knuckles attack so long. Remember I told you Bowser´s fists are more powerful than Knuckles. A black hole is the most powerful thing in a universe! And Bowser was able to survive that he would have no problem to resist Knuckles attacks in his Dreamy form and Knuckles has not prove that he can a escape a black hole. The winner is the Koopa King.

      • Bowser’s durability is good, but not so good that he could just withstand Knuckles’ attacks like that. Trust me, Knuckles is the last guy you want to mess with here. He just continues to get stronger with each passing form and his speed is incredible. Dreamy form doesn’t buff the stats up enough to compensate for that here.

  4. Disagree, Bowser would definitley win he has two godly forms that would be able to take knuckles so Bowser is superior.

      • A normal plumber?????!!!!!! That is bull over 9 thousand Mario is not a normal plumber he is a superhuman who is able to carry giant castles and kick them he is a plumber who is one of the seven star children chosen by the gods. Mario just beats Bowser because he outsmarts him plus Bowser beat him once who beated many powerful gods such as: Culex, The Dark Star, Antasma, Dimentio, Zeekeeper, Dreamy Bowser, and Grand star Bowser. Bowser can resist multiple punches from Mario who is able to carry castles and kick them.

      • True, Mario has way better stats than a normal human but he’s still really not that impressive at all. He’s a character who relies more on gameplay mechanics than true feats. When it comes time for a real fight he always looks really bad and to an extent that has to be reflected for Bowser as well. If Mario’s not extremely powerful then the same can be said for Bowser

  5. Mario can shatter bricks with his bare fists since the first Super Mario Bros.

    He can lift up and toss Bowser around, who is at least as heavy as an adult elephant (2–7 tons). And that’s NOT counting his metal gears on his arms.

    He’s also strong enough to restrain a golden chain copper. Gold is much heavier than iron, and Mario is holding a whole sphere of it.

    He can also destroy castles with a few kicks and stomps, and even lift one up.

    While those castles may look small, that’s only because of that cutscene. Here’s how it really looks like:

    He regularly knocks out Bowser, who survived black holes that can destroy entire galaxies. Not to mention that Mario scales to Rosalina, who tanked and blocked the big bang multiple times (although it is unclear if Mario can survive the big bang).

    Mario, although not known for his speed, is surprisingly one speedy guy. He can run up walls and pipes in Super Mario World.

    In Super Mario 64, he outran Koopa the Quick, who was wearing Mach 1 Sprint Shoes. This means Mario can run faster than sound.

    He’s fast enough to dodge energy balls from the Koopalings. While those energy balls seem slow, that’s only so the player can actually dodge it.

    In Super Mario Odyssey, he can control being a bolt of electricity, meaning he has light speed reactions.

    In Super Mario Galaxy, Mario can predict when to land his feet on a planet after being launched through galaxies at light speed. That is over MFTL. Not to mention he had to move fast enough to flip over, otherwise, he would’ve landed on his face.

    In Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, he piloted the Star Driver, which is fast enough to travel through multiple galaxies in the blink of an eye. Mario was able to dodge everything that was in the way no sweat.

    He did something similar with the Starship Mario in Super Mario Galaxy 2, meaning we have three feats that show Mario is MFTL++.

    Durability/Stamina:

    Sonic has been able to survive the maximum overdrive from Metal Sonic, which is like a field of glowing energy.

    Sonic can survive reentry from orbit onto his face and only looked slightly fazed. He can also breathe in space.

    In Sonic Colours, he survived the black hole that he outran. Now, normal black holes are either the Star-Solar System level, and others can go past that if they get big enough. This black hole couldn’t even destroy the Earth. So we can assume this was a moon-level black hole.

    In Sonic Generations, Sonic survived a hit from Time Eater. Time Eater *almost* destroyed the Sonic universe, so we can assume that Time Eater is low universal. Sonic got knocked out afterward and needed the seven chaos emeralds to recover, but he still survived.

    Mario survived a castle imploding in his face and, while his face and clothes were burned, he only looked surprised.

    Mario can also breathe underwater (despite what Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey shows us).

    In Super Mario Galaxy, he survived the vacuum of space, and it was like he was still breathing air. In Super Mario Galaxy 2, he survived the same black hole that Bowser got sucked in by. Now, while he didn’t actually go inside it, he still survived the pull of it, which can still bend time and space apart.

    Mario scales to Rosalina, who tanked the big bang multiple times. Now, this is may seem like speculation, but there are 2 feats that support this. In Super Mario Galaxy 2, Bowser was powered by the Grand Star, a universal object. How do we know it is universal? By the fact that the entire universe was threatened when Bowser got this star, and also that Luma’s can create entire galaxies, Power Stars are just Luma’s with a massive power boost, so if this is the Grand Star, it must be at least universal. If Mario survived hits from Grand Star Bowser, he must be taking universal punches.

    In Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam, Mario scales to Paper Mario, who survived the destruction of the Sammer Kingdom, which is an entire universe.
    Mario’s signature technique is jumping, which allows him to stomp on enemies

    With the Ultra Jump, Mario can jump at over 100 feet in the air, and causes more damage than a regular jump

    Mario can deflect objects and smash through anything with the Star Spin

    Mario can also ground-pound enemies, which can smash through tanks

    He can dive toward his enemies or objects

    Mario can also roll on the ground

    Mario can kill enemies with the Spin Jump

    Power-ups/Gear:

    Mario:

    Fire Flower: Grants pyrokinesis

    Ice Flower: Same as Fire Flower but with ice abilities instead of fire

    Boomerang Flower: Allows him to launch a boomerang

    Blue Shell: Turns Mario into a Koopa, allowing him to smash through blocks

    Hammer: Smash through any material

    Boo Mushroom: Allows him to float and phase through walls.

    Super Mushroom: Doubles his power and height

    Lazy Shell: Shoots a turtle shell

    Bee Mushroom: Allows him to fly and sting like a bee

    Mega Mushroom: Turns him into a giant and grants him invulnerability

    Cannon Box: Allows him to shoot cannonballs

    Cape Feather: Allows him to fly in the air for a while and deflect projectiles

    Cappy: Allows Mario to kill enemies by launching his hat at them, or he can just possess them

    Fludd: Allows Mario to fly in the air like he has a jetpack, spray water at enemies and distract them, blast up in the air like a rocket, and allows Mario to travel through land and water quite easily

    Cloud Flower: Allows him to conjure up clouds for extra platforms

    Copy Flower/Double Cherry: Creates clones of himself with decreased durability

    Frog Suit: Improves his swimming ability and increases his jumping ability

    Gold Flower: Turns enemies and objects into coins

    Hammer Suit: Allows him to shoot mini hammers at enemies

    Superball Flower: Shoots bouncing metal balls

    Invincibility Leaf: Appears when Mario or Luigi can’t win a fight. Grants him invulnerability and flight until a fight/level is over. Same as Tanooki Mario

    P-wing: Grants him infinite flight until a level is over. It can also teleport Mario to the end of a level

    Super Bell: Grants him cat-like reflexes and abilities

    Lucky Bell: Same as Super Bell, but grants temporary invulnerability

    Metal Cap: Grants increased strength, stamina, agility, and complete invulnerability for 20 seconds

    Super Star: Grants increased speed, agility, and power, and complete invulnerability for 10 seconds. Can kill normal enemies by touching them

    Rainbow Star: Same as Super Star, but lasts 10 seconds longer

    Mini Mushroom: Turns him into the size of an ant, allowing him to enter mini pipes and run on water

    Vanish Cap: Makes Mario intangible for 10–30 seconds

    Propeller Mushroom/Box: Propels Mario upward for a short amount of time

    Red Star: Allows him to fly in the air, powered by a baby Luma

    Power Balloon: Allows him to float in the air like a balloon

    Rock Mushroom: Allows Mario to transform into a boulder

    Spin Drill: Allows him to drill to the other side of a Planetoid. Mostly used for exploring

    Spring Mushroom: Turns Mario into a spring

    Piranha Plant: Allows Mario to get anything in his way

    Carrot: Allows Mario to hover in the air like a…bunny?

    Super Acorn: Allows him to glide like a flying squirrel

    P-acorn: Same as Super Acorn, but with infinite flight

    Super Leaf: Allows him to fly in the air for a short time and kill enemies with a tail-spin move.

    Tanooki Suit: Same as Super Leaf, but with can turn into an invincible statue for a short time

    Statue Leaf: Same as Tanooki Suit, but more efficient and rarer to find

    Heart/Moon: Heals Mario

    Wing Cap: Allows Mario to soar through the air for a minute, needs momentum

    Luigi Cap: Grants him the abilities of Luigi, granting him increased speed, agility, stamina, and more natural techniques

    Wario Cap: Grants him the abilities of Wario, giving him increased strength, power, and durability

    Penguin Suit: Allows him to slide on ice and shoot ice balls

    LightBox: Grants him a source of light, can banish ghosts.

    Ice Skate: Can move quicker on ice and immune to harmful traps

    Goomba’s Shoe: Allows him to jump over spikes and can jump higher

    Bottomless Gloves: Grants him infinite power-ups

    Warp Pipe: Allows Mario to travel through entire worlds

    Earlier Times/Retry Clock: Allows him to travel through time to the start of a fight/level.

    Mario has 57 power-ups and Sonic has 41 power-ups. So Mario has 16 more power-ups than Sonic. Plus, he can store a maximum of 99 power-ups in his pocket, while Sonic can store only a few. But Sonic’s power-ups, at least in my opinion, are more useful than Mario’s. His power-ups have the abilities of Mario’s power-ups, but they can do one or two things more. Plus, Mario really only uses his power-ups to get through certain areas and clear levels. Sonic, on the other hand, uses them for both levels AND combat. However, Mario can still counter them. Jade Ghost can be countered by the Vanish Cap. Red Burst/Flame Ring can be countered by the Fire or Ice Flower. Shields can be countered by the Hammer or Hammer Suit. Ring Time can be countered by the Gold Flower. Gray Quake can be countered by Rock Mushroom. Sonic’s flying power-ups counter Mario’s flying power-ups. Yellow Drill can counter Spin Drill. Foot Spring can counter the Spring Mushroom. Aqua Shield can counter Frog Suit. Warp Ring counters Warp Pipe.

    So they both have a counter for each other. Darkspine Sonic can only manipulate reality in the magic world, and since this will probably NOT be in the magic world, Mario still has a chance. Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic do have more powers than the Super/Rainbow Star, but they can’t hurt Mario while he has these power-ups because he is invincible. Also, while yes, Super/Hyper Sonic can last for a week while Mario’s invincible power-ups only last for a maximum of 30 seconds, Mario can just absorb infinity Super Stars with the Bottomless Gloves. The Invincibility Leaf can also grant Mario complete invulnerability and flight for an infinite time.

    The Violet Void won’t do anything because Mario has withstood the force of a black hole by himself in Super Mario Galaxy 2. Sonic can stop time with the Pearl or Chaos Emeralds, so yes he can potentially screw Mario up early on. But don’t forget Mario can just go back to the beginning of the fight with the Earlier Times or Retry Clock. And Sonic can only travel through time if he shares the Chaos Emeralds with a different person. So both of their power-ups cancel each other out, and it would end in a stalemate.

    Some people will say that Mario and Luigi games RPG games aren’t canon, which is just false because someone from Nintendo said Mario has no canon, (Is there a Mario canon, and what is the order of the games if there is?)but even so, remembers the Invincibility Leaf pops up when Mario simply can’t win a fight, so he can use that if Sonic uses chaos control or transforms into Super/Hyper Sonic.

    Victories/Enemies:

    Sonic has been able to defeat Solaris, who destroys dimensions, in Sonic ‘06. Mario has been able to defeat Dreamy Bowser, who is the multiverse in the form of a being, in Dream Team. The difference is that Sonic was in his Super Sonic form, and had help from Silver and Shadow, both of whom were also in their super ways. Mario was in his base form, but he had help from Dreamy Luigi, who, in the words of Jacob Bates, is pretty much a deity. Fine, let’s look at Time Eater and Grand Star Bowser, both of whom are universal. Sonic was once again in his super form, and he had help from Super Classic Sonic (while he wasn’t on the same level as Super Sonic, he was still wholly invulnerable). Mario defeated Grand Star Bowser all by himself, without any super form. He might have needed a few power-ups, but Sonic needed a godly transformation.

    Enemies:

    Sonic’s biggest enemy is Dr.Eggman, a mad scientist with an I.Q of over 300.

    In the past, Dr.Eggman has built robots that can copy the abilities of others, absorb the power of the Master Emerald, has built giant city-level machines of destruction, and somehow took control of an entity capable of tearing holes in time and space.

    Eggman has also built an entire robot-army, containing smart robots and dumb robots.

    He also has an entire battleship that can launch missiles and nukes.

    Mario’s biggest foe is Bowser, a tyrant with an army of literal monsters and ghosts.

    Bowser is a giant turtle with a spikey shell, fire-breathing abilities, and can turn people into stone.

    Bowser has been able to threaten the entire universe and steal celestial objects 2 times.

    Bowser is stronger, tougher, and about as fast as Mario.

    Mario’s strategies are also pretty basic, if not more basic than Sonic’s. It’s just jumping on an opponent. That really only works for minor enemies or weak bosses, and Sonic for sure is not one of them.

    He himself is not a strategist, and will most likely just dive into a battle. He is impulsive and rather hasty. For example, he jumps into a magical painting without really knowing what would happen or if he would be prepared for what’s on the other side.

    While Mario is incredibly powerful, he doesn’t have a lot of natural techniques. Honestly, the only reason he beats Bowser is that:

    Mario has an OP power-up
    He uses the environment as an advantage
    As we see in the opening of Super Mario Odyssey, Mario doesn’t have any power-ups, and neither does Bowser. The two of them are fighting on an airship. And we clearly see Bowser has the upper-hand here.

    So Mario’s real power resides in his power-ups, not his base form.

    And again, Mario is not that type of strategist, so he’ll most likely consume all his power-ups to get an early start, and when he runs out, then he has a disadvantage.

    Conclusion:

    And the winner, folks, is Mr. Video Game himself, Super Mario. I mean, just look at their strength feats. Yes, Sonic destroys robots and aliens that can destroy solar systems, but Mario knocks out people who have survived Multi-Galaxy black holes.

    Sonic is faster on foot, because he goes 10x the speed of sound casually, while Mario is only as fast as sound. But Mario’s reflexes are MFTL+, while Sonic’s running speed and reflexes are only FTL+. Mario can easily keep up with Sonic.

    Mario’s durability also outclasses Sonic’s by a decent amount. Sonic got knocked out by a low universal hit, while Mario can tank universal punches and get back up.

    Mario also has 24 years of combat experience, while Sonic has 2 years of combat experience and 15 years of being a speedster.

    Sonic does have more techniques, though, so he has an advantage with that.

    Power-ups make this interesting. Mario’s durability and speed alone might be able to beat Super Sonic, but remember Super Sonic can last for a few days, and he has infinite stamina. Mario is powerful and has high stamina, but it is still limited. Super Sonic can also cancel out the majority of Mario’s arsenal, but Mario can counter it with the White Tanooki Suit, which lasts forever until the end of a fight.

    If there are no power-ups (which is very unlikely since Mario always has power-ups around and the wisps are always in capsules), then Mario stomps. Sonic might catch Mario off guard in the beginning, but after that, it is an automatic win for Mario.

    If they are fighting with power-ups then it would most likely be a draw, though Sonic could win by:

    If he goes Super Sonic in the beginning, Mario would probably just pull out a regular Fire Flower, then get yeeted out of existence.
    He goes Hyper and instantly kills Mario with the Hyper-flash move IF Mario doesn’t have an invincible power-up on.
    He goes to the book world (very, VERY unlikely) and uses Darkspine (needs seven world rings) to take away all of Mario’s powers.
    Turns Mario into rings with Ring Time (unlikely as Mario has resisted Bowser and Kameks’s transmutation).
    Trap Mario in a ball with the Magic Gloves (unlikely considering Mario’s reactions).
    Disintegrate Mario with Indigo Asteroid (again, considering Mario’s reflexes this is unlikely).
    But Mario can also win by:

    Absorbs a Super Star at the beginning of the fight. Sonic, being the cocky bastard he is, will just run into it, then immediately die (unlikely because Mario only uses Super Star after he realizes the danger of an enemy).
    He goes White Tanooki Mario, waits for Super/Hyper form to end, then kills Sonic with the tail-spin move.
    Crushes Sonic with the Hammer because it is especially useful for spikey enemies (very, VERY unlikely considering Sonic’s durability).
    Turns Sonic into coins with the Gold Flower (unlikely as those energy balls move very slowly).
    Overpower Sonic by creating infinite clones with Bottomless Gloves+Copy Flower.
    Knock Sonic out by using his top strength (also unlikely as Mario holds back).
    So yeah, both can win with power-ups, but I see it like this:

    Sonic goes Super or Hyper, Mario absorbs the White Tanooki Suit, and they go to space to duke it out. A few days later, Sonic’s Super/Hyper form ends and he dies by Mario’s tail-spin.

    Winner:

    While Sonic is insanely quick on his feet, and his power-ups are more useful for combat, Mario’s superior strength, durability, agility, combat experience, and larger arsenal will give him the victory (most of the time). So no Mario is stronger than Sonic so Bowser would beat Knuckles without a doubt.

    • I gotta say, major credit for the feats listed above. I’ll admit that Mario sounds a lot more impressive than you would think at first glance. While this doesn’t change Knuckles vs Bowser, here’s why Sonic would still win for me. His speed is unmatched. In the Archie comics his Super Sonic is said to be 1000x faster than his normal Sonic speed which is already FTL. The sheer speed is why he wins. Mario could certainly hold his own and win if this was a match of pure brawn but even at his best Mario has never displayed that level of combat speed

      • Ok Mario is fast enough to dodge meteors and there many power ups that would help him to end sonic like he could use the star or could froze his solid or turn him into gold there are power ups that could even overpowered him so still Mario wins. Bowser would beat Knuckles very easy, Oh and Knuckles does not have a hyper form so Bowser wins.

      • Big difference between a meteor and Super Sonic though. Mario’s gold form still wouldn’t close the speed gap though.

        Knuckles does have Hyper in the Archie comics though and actually gave Sonic a really good fight. Remember that Bowser got clowned by King Dedede in a single blow. I don’t believe he would last long here.

      • First of all: Rainbow Mario would beat Hyper Sonic.
        Second of all: Well even still that Knuckles have a hyper form it would not be able to handle Dreamy Bowser
        Third of all: King dedede beat Bowser in a single blow? Bullshit that was in Smash and he did not beat him in a single blow. Bowser is stronger than King dedede. In a research battle Bowser would win.
        Mario beats Sonic and Bowser beats Knuckles accept it.

      • Rainbow Mario wouldn’t stand a chance. Sonic has beaten gods and deities in his time through Hyper/Super Sonic. Rainbow Mario hasn’t done anything particularly impressive. Dreamy Bowser is a pretty cool form but he still won’t be able to keep up with Knuckles’ speed. He will completely overwhelm the king of the Koopa. Smash isn’t canon for sure, but it’s a prety good look at how powerful Bowser is. I really doubt Bowser would win a rematch.

      • RainBow Mario is invincible showing how he beats many foes just touching them and if Rainbow Mario touch sonic then it will be Game Over for him.

      • Yes, but that’s a mix of gameplay mechanics and the fact that he’s knocking out a lot of minions for the most part. It wouldn’t have a similar effect against someone as powerful as Sonic

      • Super Sonic would not be able to stand a chance against Rainbow Mario. The emeralds just make Sonic more powerful and more faster while the star makes Mario invincible.

      • Not invincible, just a lot more durable while emitting an offensive energy that can stop foes. It wouldn’t be able to break through Sonic’s shield so it would effectively be pointless in the match

      • Mario has beaten universal and multivesal gods like: Antasma, Dimentio, Zeekeeper, Dreamy Bowser, Grand Star Bowser, Culex, and the Dark star
        Plus Mario has power ups that would help him defend himself from Sonic super forms like: The metal cap, the invincibility leaf, the mega mushroom, the star, the feather leaf etc. And I already said Mario used the star driver that can travel through galaxies. That puts Mario in the same level of Sonic speed even though Mario has more power ups than Sonic. Sonic is impressive but Mario is in a whole different level.
        You said Knuckles speed would be able to handle Dreamy Bowser? Pfft, no freaking way! Knuckles is not even as fast as sonic if Knuckles turn into super or hyper it still would not be able to take down the Koopa king. Dreamy Bowser is cabable to create an wish anything he could wish that knuckles turns back in his base form. Knuckles may be faster and smarter but Bowser experience, durability, versatility, and strength would give him the victory. The winner is: Bowser and Mario

      • Right, but you see how Mario’s enemies don’t compete right? Metal Overlord alone could wipe out all of the Mario villains you just named. As for his power ups, the Metal Cap isn’t durable enough to endure Sonic’s hits. The Mega Mushroom just makes him a bigger target and the others buy him a few seconds at most. Mario’s Star Driver will help him move but it definitely doesn’t equate to combat speed. That’s the problem, it still wouldn’t even the playing field for Mario.

        As for Bowser, I agree that he’s not as smart or as fast as Knuckles. Those are the things that are really going to hurt him here. He won’t have time to make the wish without Knuckles shattering the wand first and ultimately there’s not a whole lot else that Bowser would be able to do in time. He’s just completely outgunned here

      • Plus, Knuckles would not beat Bowser in a fist fight sure Knuckles fist can cause volcanic eruptions but Bowser has done much better like he destroyed a whole freaking universe in one hit! He punch peach castle so hard that it made a tour around the Earth in seconds in the space. He beated Dark Bowser wich is the dark star with his DNA in just a few punches. So Bowser fists are more powerful.

      • I think you’re taking too many gameplay mechanics into consideration with some of these feats though. Bowser is definitely very strong and a case can be made that he is stronger than Knuckles. Stronger than Hyper Knuckles? I have serious doubts about that. Then once we throw in Knuckles’ speed the match is really over. There’s just not much Bowser can do against someone like this

      • The star would be able to destroy sonic shiels and for the last time I am going to say this….The star makes Mario invincible
        Hyper Knuckles would not be able to defeat Dreamy Bowser
        And yet there are many ways that Mario can defeat Sonic.
        Mario wins please accept it.

      • The invincibility part is just due to what we’ve seeen Mario fight. He’s not actually invincible and would still get stomped by Sonic’s main attacks. Mario is strong to be sure, but the star just isn’t at a level where it could really be used to stop Sonic’s onslaught in its tracks. It’s just not happening. That’s why Sonic stomps Mario here

        Bowser won’t be fast enough to land a hit on Knuckles.

      • Bowser knows Black Magic, he can:
        Throw electricity from his hands.
        Make energy balls
        Teleport.
        Travel through time.
        Make bubble creatures.
        Creating black holes.
        Gravity Manipulation.
        Can put his hands and tail on fire to attack.
        Created a tower.
        Create portals.
        Turn people into bricks.
        Grows giant whenever he wants.
        Has a QI of 9800.
        Has mecha koopas, bob ombs, koopa clown car and the koopa cruiser.
        Alternate forms:
        Giga Bowser
        Giant Bowser
        Dry Bowser
        Hammer slam Bowser
        Grand star Bowser
        Dreamy Bowser.
        With that abilities Bowser beats Knuckles.

      • All right, those are all certainly things that Bowser can do. The problem here is that Knuckles is still just too fast to be hit by all of that. Bowser can have all of the best abilities in the world but they’re not going to help when his opponent is this quick. Knuckles can dodge all of those attacks with ease.

      • The star does make him invincible. He could even use the invincibility leave. Mario is very tough for sonic, sonic speed would not be able to handle Mario strength and durability. Mario reflexes are MFTL speed while Sonic is FTl. Mario was able to handle universal hits while Sonic got knocked out so that means Mario could support anything that the Blue spiky hair could throw at him, Mario even has a power up that stops time for a limited time and there is many ways he could end him like froze him or turn him into gold. He gots a more bigger arsenal that can help him end Sonic and even defend him from his attacks and even overpower him. mario arsenal would always outlast sonic because he’s been shown to carry more of them on his person. Mario wins

      • The star isn’t true invincibility though. That’s because there’s no such thing. It’s like having an unbreakable shield or unstoppable sword. At most that means they are really strong but there is always something stronger. In this case that’s Sonic. Mario has great reaction times but lets not forget him getting blasted by a magic koopa in Mario Galaxy and other events like that. Mario really wouldn’t last long against someone like Sonic. Sonic’s on a completely different level.

      • Knuckles is faster than Bowser but knuckles speed is not as same as sonic. Bowser is way more powerful. Bowser survived crazy things that Knuckles would not be able to resist. He survived: Lava, the sun, a supernova, a black hole, a star, and the destruction of a universe. He once destroyed a universe! He has many abilities that would give him the win like: Create black holes, portals, bubble creatures, electricity, energy balls, turn people into bricks, Teleport, Gravity manipulation and Time travel. Hyper knuckles is very powerful but still he has a limited time and Bowser Dreamy form would beat hyper knuckles. Dreamy Bowser is a multiversal god who can wish and create anything, he could make a wish that could overpower knuckles or giving him a huge advantage like: go back to his base form, slow him down, make him lost his powers etc. The punching hedgehog would be defeated. Plus Bowser fists are more powerful than knuckles so he would beat him in a fist fight.

      • True, Knuckles isn’t nearly as fast as Sonic. That being said, he really doesn’t need to be. Knuckles is still very fast in his own right which means that he will always be one step ahead of Bowser. I see you have Dreamy Bowser as your main counter here but that guy’s not super impressive. The only thing he really has going for himself here is all the wishes and that’s not going to fly here. Wishing that Knuckles would just go back to base mode is something I have my doubts on him being able to do. Knuckles would be protected by the Emerald energy in that form. It won’t last forever, but certainly long enough to land some critical blows and end things. Bowser has resisted a lot, but direct hits from a Hyper mode? It’s really hard to imagine that working out.

      • Maybe he will be able to dodge some attacks from Bowser but if Bowser throws him a black hole then Knuckles would not survive that. Bowser was able to escape a black hole so if Bowser throws him a black hole he would not be able to escape that and if Bowser throws him lightning Knuckles wouldn’t be able to dodge that.

      • Like you said, Bowser escaped a Black Hole and he’s not particularly fast. Knuckles would have absolutely no trouble escaping it either. Knuckles would be able to dodge the lightning as well. We can’t forget that Knuckles is massively faster than Bowser to the point where this isn’t close. Anything Bowser can do, Knuckles can do better when it comes to speed feats. Now when it comes to power, that’s where Bowser has it made

      • Ahhhhhhh….Look I am not in the mood to see many people who say Knuckles is stronger than Bowser and that Sonic is stronger than Mario. Mario has many power ups that would help him beat the hairy Goku hedgehog and overpower him and help him defend from sonic’s attacks and can you give me a good reason why Rainbow Mario is not invincible? That is the only thing that I don’t understand, well if you do not say that makes him invincible then Mario has the invincibility leaf that makes him invincible. I admit that Sonic could win in some circumstances but most of the time Mario takes the win. Sonic speed would not be able to handle Mario’s durability, Mario would have a hard time hitting the blue hedgehog but Mario would be able to handle Sonic’s attacks. Mario is way to tough for Sonic so Mario wins.

      • I know, the truth hurts in this case but that’s how it is. Sonic and Knuckles definitely outrank Mairo and Bowser. As I said, there is no such thing as true invincibility so that means there is now way Rainbow Mario fits that category. It just means he is super durable but that won’t be enough to take Sonic down. Sonic’s speed beats durability because all of the hits will keep adding up. Since he definitely does deal damage, there is not a whole lot Mario could do. His durability will only last so long

      • Ok why would knuckles would be able to escape a black hole and dodge lightning? No way in hell is going to do that.

      • Bowser advantages:
        Stronger
        Durable
        More Experience
        More versatile

        Knuckles advantages:
        Speed
        Intelligence

        Dreamy Bowser would be able to handle attacks from Hyper knuckles until he returns into his base form. Seeing how the normal Bowser has survived deadlier things that a attack from hyper knuckles, He survived: A Supernova, A Black hole, A Star, The Sun, Lava, The destruction of a universe. And since Dreamy Bowser is far more powerful than Bowser that means he could survive many deadly things. Is a black hole, a supernova, a star, and the destruction of a universe more weaker than a hit of hyper knuckles? No so by that logic Dreamy Bowser could resist hits from Hyper Knuckles and when he returns into his base form then Dreamy Bowser would easily beat him in a single form, and like I said……Dreamy Bowser can create anything! He could create a thing that would help him a lot in a fight with Hyper Knuckles. Bowser simply wins please, please! Deal with it.

      • Speed is the factor that really matters here. Dreamy Bowser can endure a lot but not those attacks at that volume. You also have to consider that Knuckles’ attacks are direct. IT’s not like a general universe being destroyed, these are focused attacks hitting in quick succession. There’s only so much Bowser could do in the meanwhile. He would be helpless while being pummeled over and over again. Again, there’s no way to get around losing the speed battle.

      • Ok like Mario and Sonic even though Knuckles is faster than him then Bowser would easily resist Knuckles attack cause he survived deadlier things and is more durable tha Knuckles. Bowser is very, very tough for Knuckles to handle.

      • Bowser can resist attacks but only for a little while. That’s why losing the speed edge is so critical in these battles. With enough speed you can just keep on hitting until the durability runs out and that’s exactly what Knuckles will do here

      • Dude, You still do not answer my question? Why Rainbow Mario is not invincible give me a good reason and Mario has the invincibility leaf that gives him permanent invincibility and no Mario could handle Sonic attacks without problem, cause he survived deadlier things and he could dodge them because remember that Mario has better reflexes. And for the last time! Mario´s arsenal would help him so much in the fight, those power ups would help him: Defend him from Sonic´s attacks, overpower him, and beat him like I said he could froze his solid or turn him into gold. Mario is way better than Sonic.

      • Eh, the reason to that is there’s no such thing as invincibility. You can increase your durability to the point where almost nothing can hurt you but there is no way to become completely invincible. It just isn’t possible and that’s the issue that Mario would run into here. Mario has survived a lot of powerful hits but not a focused barrage like what Sonic would be giving him here. Mario would be helpless against that due in large part to the difference in speed we’ve been mentioning. Without the ability to keep up with speed, there is just no escape. Ultimately Mario would fall and his power ups can’t help when he can’t keep up

      • I am still not convinced, the star does makes Mario invincible (form a limited time) showing how he beats any enemy with just touching them. If you say that does not make him invincible then Mario has the invincibility leaf that gives him permanent invincibility, Mario´s power ups would help him end Sonic. They can help him overpower sonic and defend him from sonic´s attacks like for example the metal cap, they can also help him finish him like I said he could froze his solid with the ice flower or turn him into gold with the golden flower. Mario even has the pure hearts that would make him powerful enough to beat Hyper Sonic
        Also Dreamy Bowser would be able to handle Hyper Knuckles attacks for so much time he could even create a shield that would help block Hyper Knuckles attacks or even cure himself from the damage that Hyper Knuckles did to him, he could create weapons that would help him beat him and I do not thing the emeralds energy would protect knuckles from Dreamy Bowser´s wishes because he has not prove that he could do that so Dreamy Bowser would wish that he return to his base form or do a wish that could give him the win. Plus, Bowser has a ability that could easily finish Knuckles………………………………He can turn him into a brick.

      • Neither the leaf nor the star are true invincibility. The closest you can do it get hyper durability which is good but it still won’t be enough to stop Sonic. Sonic’s in a class of his own with his many abilities. Let’s not forget that in his Excalibur form he could just slice through Mario like he was butter. He’s just got way too many tools up his arsenal for Mario to defend himself against. Mario’s many attacks are rendered null and void thanks to the speed difference.

        Hyper Knuckles flurry of blows would completely overwhelm Bowser’s defenses. Bowser wouldn’t have time to even counter attack and so Knuckles would have the advantage right from the jump. As for turning Knuckles into a brick, he’d have to catch him first. Worst case, Knuckles becomes a brick like how Vegito turned into a candy and the pummeling just continues

      • What is compare a hit from Knuckles to a freaking Black hole? Bowser will be able to resist Knuckles hits for a long time. Bowser is so tough for Knuckles plus Bowser speed is almost to Mario´s so Bowser could be able to dodge, block, or intercept attacks from Knuckles and Dreamy Bowser is just ridiculously impressive, he would be able to beat Hyper Knuckles but not very easily.

      • A black hole isn’t a direct hit so that’s why it’s different. Take that feeling when you’re hit by a general wave in the beach vs a water bullet hitting you. The direct attack knocks you back while the wave is uncomfortable. So Knuckles’ attacks aren’t as strong as a Black Hole but they are directed straight at Bowser which is where things get interesting. I just don’t see Bowser being able to stand up to that for very long. Knuckles is also way faster. There’s no way Mario could hope to keep up with him much less Bowser. Hyper Knuckles increases his speed as well so Dreamy Bowser would be overwhelmed

      • My god!, just go see the abilities that all the power ups give him and you will see the star and the leaf makes him invincible. Also do you think Mario will let Sonic slice him? Mario´s reflexes would avoid them all and the metal cap would defend him from Excalibur Sonic. Mario has the pure hearts that makes him extremely powerful, he has the enough power to finish Hyper Sonic. Mario even has cappy and it would posses Sonic and Mario then would learn all the things that Sonic can do and then he would came up with a strategy to finish Sonic

      • Not only have I seen the abilities but I’ve seen them first hand as I’ve played almost every Mario game. It’s why I’m able to really evaluate these guys since I’ve seen them for myself. Let me tell you, Mario would let Sonic slice him. Mario wouldn’t be able to do much of anything to stop Sonic’s assault. He’s not fast enough to do so and that’s what would put him in a tough spot here. Reaction speeds can only get you so far when you’re completely outgunned in a fight. It puts you behind the 8 ball right away.

      • Bowser has been able to resist Mario´s direct hits to the face, so he would not have a problem resist Knuckles attacks. Bowser would turn him into a brick and knuckles would not know that he is trying to turn him into a brick. If Hyper Knuckles leaves Dreamy Bowser with so much damage then Dreamy Bowser would cure himself and could wish to have infinite durability. He could create powerful weapons that would help him finish Hyper Knuckles and could wish to overpower him or wish that he returns to his base form. Bowser is simply way better than the punching red hedgehog.

      • Knuckles is far more powerful than Mario though. His fists are really going to hurt here and the speed also puts him a different league since Bowser will have to deal with a full flurry all at once. That’s not a good sign for him. Bowser has his Dreamy form but he can’t wish for infinite durability though. He can wish for more of course and can heal to an extent but he will be completely overwhelmed in this fight. All the abilities at your disposal don’t really matter when you’re getting crushed the whole time

  6. The Power Star grants Mario invincibility to attacks, not just in the Mario series. How do we know this? Super Smash Bros.

    In Smash, the Power Star is the most OP item. Bayonetta’s punch can’t break it. No Final Smash can break it. We know Super Sonic can’t affect it.

    However, we know Super Sonic is not invincible. He can be harmed by the Biolizard, for example.

    Thus comparing their strongest forms, Power Star Mario comes up on top.

    • That’s a gameplay mechanic. Most fighting games have similar items or abilities. Like when you pull off a final smash, you become temporarily invincible. It doesn’t mean that the character literally is. That’s all gameplay mechanics

      • Pfft, No freaking way Knuckles is more powerful than Mario. Mario would finish Knuckles with his power ups the same goes for Mario vs Sonic and Bowser´s fist are more stronger than knuckles so he would do more damage to knuckles than him to Bowser

      • Knuckles would easily defeat Mario just like Sonic would. Here’s the deal, Knuckles has punched out enemies who are much stronger than anyone Mario has ever had to deal with. That’s not even counting his Hyper Knuckles form. The fact of the matter is that Knuckles is in a completely different league than Mario just as the Sonic verse is in a different league than the Mario one. That’s why the Mario verse always ends up losing the big battles here. The Sonic verse is just too skilled

      • Jesus, you sure do love Sonic. Dreamy Bowser can wish for infinite durability because he can wish anything he wants and I already tell you that even though Hyper Knuckles is super fast he still does not have a chance against Dreamy Bowser. Dreamy Bowser could create many things that would end Hyper Knuckles or could wish him to slow him down, overpower him, and make him return to his base form and if if Hyper Knuckles leaves him with so much damage he could create a shield to protect him or cure himself. Then Knuckles would be finished by Bowser.

      • And here we go again from me telling you that Mario has the pure hearts that makes him extremely powerful, he would have the enough power to beat hyper knuckles and hyper sonic.

      • The pure hearts are good but not good enough. We can’t forget that in Kingdom Hearts the pure hearts still weren’t enough to fight off the heartless and those aren’t nearly as strong or fast as Knuckles and Sonic. They would blitz Mario for days

      • Then Mario with the Star and the invincibility leaf would make him invincible and kills Hyper Sonic. Sorry buddy, but that´s the truth.

      • Nah, he’s still not invincible even with those two things. That’s what I’m trying to tell ya. No matter how many upgrades Mario stacks up, they just won’t be enough to even put him on the same level as someone like Sonic or Knuckles. Those guys are just way too powerful as it is

    • Guess what? I already see the abilities that the power ups give to Mario and it says clear that the Star and the Invincibility leaf makes him invincible also you really think Mario would let Excalibur Sonic to slice him????!!!! Yeah, like if Mario wanted Sonic to kill him and Mario has the metal cap that would defend him from Excalibur Sonic´s sword attacks and Mario with the pure hearts, the star, and the invincibility leaf. would beat Hyper Sonic

      • Invincibility is something they want you to buy into but you gotta see past the trick. There’s no such thing and it just makes Mario pretty durable. The guy probably wouldn’t be durable enough to block Sonic’s blast anyway which puts him in a really bad spot here. I don’t see how he would be able to do much of anything in this battle. Mario just doesn’t have a whole lot of skills that would let him do anything here. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mario. He’s always been a pretty fun character and someone that you could count on. That being said, I just don’t see him doing much of anything here

  7. You just do not admit it man, I already search and it says that the star and the invincibility leaf makes him invincible. What is compare a thing that makes you only more powerful and faster to a thing that makes you invincible? Mario just has the edge when it comes to power I think Sonic does not have nothing to end Mario.

    • That’s what they want you to think but it’s just not the case. What those abilities do it improve your durability to a high degree but that’s it. They really don’t do a thing to help you when the chips are down and you’re feeling out. Sonic would be blasting through Mario right from the jump

      • You are being a little stubborn is not like if I offend you but just read the guide of power ups so you can see that I am right and you will see that Mario wins.

      • No, it’s just that absolutes like that don’t exist. There’s no such thing as unlimited strength, speed, or durability. That’s why invincibility can’t exist because when you think about it, all that means is infinite durability which isn’t a thing. That’s why Sonic speedblitzes him easily

      • Mate, just look in the guide and you will see very clear that the star and the invincibility leaf makes Mario invincible. Knuckles and Sonic don´t stand a chance against Mario.

      • Those are gameplay mechanics and concepts within the universe. Mario may be too strong for other Mario characters to hurt him but that’s not going to impress Knuckles or Sonic. They would easily be able to pummel Mario right through the durability boosts and then that would be game over for him

      • Cmon dude I am very tired seeing you say that. The problem here is that you just don´t admit it I know that you sure are very sad about the truth but the truth hurts sometimes. The star makes Mario invincible heck even Bowser gets beaten by Rainbow Mario with just a single touch! Just admit it.

      • I know, it’s hard to see these comments but this is just how it is. Mario’s not invincible and the fact that he still manages to beat up on Bowser doesn’t help the King’s case. He’s completely outgunned here since Knuckles is a lot faster and tougher than Mario. That barrage of blows will really add up and ultimately that’s what is going to cost Bowser big time

      • Man, man, man…………You just don´t admit it that is the problem here. I already read the guide and the creator says very clear the those two power ups make Mario invincible I mean for something the invincibility leaf is called ´´invincibility´´ right? Sonic and Knuckles are powerful but they just are not enough.

      • Right but they’re making that in the context of trying to design a fun game. It’s still not meant for you to think that the invincibility is actually legitimate. Trust me, all it does is buff the durability and that’s not going to be nearly enough to take down someone like Knuckles or Sonic

      • This is the truth dude, admit it Sonic doesn´t have anything to end Mario and for the love of god! It´s not a gameplay mechanics the creator says it very clear and there is proof about that showing how he beats any foe just touching them and resist any type of attack.

      • I can’t admit it because it just isn’t the case! Sonic is way more skilled than Mario and also has the absolute advantage in both speed and power. I don’t really see Mario having much of a response to this level of ability. Sonic’s just out of his league and that’s not even counting his various super forms like Super Sonic and Darkspine. Once you throw those in then it’s all over. Definitely gameplay mechanics for Super Mario though, there’s no such thing as invincibility.

      • If the star really gives Mario more durability then how do you explain the fact that Rainbow Mario can beat any foe with just touching them? Mario has his power ups to help him win the fight and I am sure he always will have a power up in his sleeves that will help him finish Knuckles and Sonic. Mario will pummel both of them………….Get it?

      • Well, my answer to that would be that Rainbow Mario also does have some extra strength and a bit of an aura it seems which is why he can damage opponents. It does pack a punch behind the attacks so that is definitely solid but it won’t do any good against Knuckles or Sonic since they’re so much faster

      • I told you that Mario has his big arsenal to endo Sonic he has power ups that would end Sonic and Knuckles. Sonic would not be able to handle Mario’s power ups and Mario has cappy that can posses sonic. Mario is just has the upper hand.

      • Cappy’s too slow and in a way that sums up Mario’s chances in a nutshell. There’s just no way for him to keep up with Sonic or tag him at all. The hedgehog has the massive advantage in both speed and power. There’s just not a whole lot that Mario can do to try and end him. He has a big arsenal but they’re all moves that are too slow

      • You don’t understand this will be the last time I said…….The star does make him invincible and that the star gives him just a little strength is just super wrong, I told you that he can even beat Bowser with just touching him so if he touches Sonic then Sonic would be defeated. Make any excuses but it not changes the fact that the star makes him invincible. The creator even says that the star makes Mario invincible, Mario beats Knuckles and Sonic and that is the truth

      • The star is pretty important but it still does not make him invincible. Think about it, how could a star possibly give you true invincibility? It just isn’t a thing and won’t work out well for him here. Super Sonic would be able to punch Mario right out of his star form and that would be the end of the match. There is no escape

  8. You are creating things a punch od Super Sonic wouldn’t punch mario in his Star form It gives him invincibility it says clear and we can see he beats any foe with just touching them if Super Sonic punches him it wouldn’t effect him. Sorry son but that is how it would end.

    • It’s not true invincibility though. Mario gains a lot of durability I’ll certainly grant you that, but it has its limits. Super Sonic has been shown time and time again to deal a ton of damage with each blow. I have no doubt that he would crush Mario’s Starpower

      • I really doubt about that prove that the star really doesn’t give him invincibility. Star mario is invincible he take every hit and beats every foe with just a single touch and Super Sonic has his limits too, Super sonic wouldn’t be able to punch Mario out of his star form he hasn’t prove he can beat strong enemies with just one punch in fact if he touches him is game over for him there is no escape.

      • The star’s still just a gameplay mechanic Think about it, if it was actual invincibility then everyone would go use it to crush some opponents right? Why wait for Mario? The Toads could all go save Peach. It’s just a fun little element to make the gameplay better while we’ve actually seen Super Sonic dish it out against crazy opponents and come out on top. That’s why I side with Sonic here.

  9. His arsenal will help him very much. Mario has power ups that would help him with Sonic’s speed for example he has a power up that freezes time for a limited time and he has other power ups that would help him with sonic super and hyper form its just a matter of time Mario just hits Sonic with a deadly blow and he has cappy hat would posses Sonic. That would be end of the game for him, Mario has the upper hand when it comes to arsenal and power.

    • Sonic’s will is too strong for Cappy to really do anything there. Most likely Sonic’s going to have to go Super and show Mario what true speed is here. Mario has a lot of options but over 99% of them are rendered completely powerless in this situation. The gap between the two fighters is just too massive and that’s the problem when going up against someone like Sonic. What is Mario supposed to even do to try and stay on his level

      • I told you that mario has his arsenal the\at would help him handel sonic’s attacks, forms, and speed its just a matter of time that Mario hits him with a deadly blow. His Durability would help him with sonic’s attacks and even the metal cap the makes Mario even more durable. Mario and Bowser stomps both of them.

      • The durability and metal cap won’t help much. It’ll barely even delay the inevitable when you consider that Sonic can hit him thousands of times in an instant. There is just no defense against something like that. Sonic would be blasting away the whole time. Same with Knuckles. They would unleash a flurry of blows the likes of which we’ve never seen and Mario/Bowser have no defense against that.

  10. The metal Mario would resist every hit Sonics give to him the same goes to Knuckles. The metal cap shows that can give mario huge durability and resist many attacks and like i say its just a matter of time that Mario hits Sonic, he can’t escape forever.

    • Mario can resist some attacks but really we’ve only seen him do this against fairly weak fighters to begin with. I can’t imagine that he would do particularly well against a fighter of Sonic’s caliber. The Super Sonic punches would just go right through his defenses

      • Star Mario can resist attacks too from strong opponents like Bowser who is multiversal level that would mean that the punch from Super Sonic wouldn’t affect him at all.

      • Bowser’s not even close to multiversal level though. King Dedede has humiliated him in the past and Ganon wrecked him. I’d put Bowser as block level at best with his standard attacks, Super Sonic is way higher

  11. gameplay mechanic or not it still is a power up of Mario and would help him very much by giving him invincibility if you say that it only makes him more durable then it would mean that there would be attacks that would affect Star mario but it doesn’t even Bowser’s attacks can’t affect him. Keep making any excuses but it still won’t help. Both mario and Bowser stomps Sonic and Knuckles.

    • Gameplay mechanic makes all the difference. It just increases his durability. Think of it this way, people say that Superman is invincible but he can still take damage. It’s like that with Super Mario but to an even more extreme extent. There’s just nothing he can really do to resist Sonic’s power. Sonic and Knuckles would easily take Mario and Bowser down.

      • It still is a power up that mario can use but still the star makes Mario invincible sames come to the invincibility leaf it says very clear that the ability that those two power ups give to Mario is invincibility Star Mario can even walk on lava without problem. Mario can use power ups that would help him with Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic. Sonic doesn’t have anything at all to take down Mario the same goes to Knuckles. Bowser and Mario takes Sonic and Knuckles to the floor.

      • Mario has a lot of nice power ups I’ll definitely agree with you there. Where we part ways is that Mario’s Star just doesn’t make him invincible. It’s just not enough to take down an opponent like this. Sonic and Knuckles are just too powerful. They have the overwhelming edge in both speed and power. Not getting hurt by Lava is pretty good but what about Sonic landing blows on the BioLizard that were actually dealing massive damage? That’s not the kind of thing you can really forget about. It’s just too much to hope to stop.

  12. Mario has foughted strong opponents even more powerful than Biolizard, for example: Dimentio, Zeekeeper, Antasma, Dreamy Bowser, The Dark star, Culex, and Grand star Bowser and was actually capable to hurt them and Bowser was able to hurt too strong opponents like Culex and Dark Bowser. Still Star mario is invincible I told you that he can take any attack without problem so Super Sonic attacks wouldn’t affect him at all. Bowser and mario are too much for Sonic and Knuckles to handle.

    • None of those guys are even close to the BioLizard in strength. A single energy blast would take them out like nobody’s business. That’s the difference between the Sonic and Mario verses. Star Mario is all gameplay mechanics while Super Sonic has had to seal with some really powerful opponents. I’m not saying this to knock Mario and Bowser. Both of them are still pretty fun characters and all but I just don’t see them being able to hold their own here. They’re just a little out of their league and that’s what is going to come back to bite them in the end.

      • You sure are a Sonic fan. It doesn’t matter if is a gameplay mechanic it stills count we have to put all Bowser’s and Mario’s feats if not this wouldn’t be fair.

      • Everything is counted that’s definitely true, but there are levels to it. For example, a gameplay mechanic is not the same as a consistent feat. It’s different having an item that increases your durability compared to showing that you can tank those abilities on the regular

      • You are underestimating Bowser and Mario. Biolizard can’t compete with none of these opponents. Dimentio would easily beat Biolizard his feats are better than Biolizard.

        Dimentio:
        Powers and Stats: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Teleportation, Levitation, Firing magic projectiles, Can create explosions, Can create force fields to trap opponents, Mirror Magic, Reality Warping, Can flip between realities, Can create and manipulate universes, Invisibility, Can create countless clones of himself, Illusion Creation, Mind Control (Can take control of people’s minds, such as when he turned Luigi into Mr. L), Technopathy (made Fracktail short circuit), BFR to Dimension D (a pocket dimension of his own creation where his attack power is multiplied over two hundred times over, but so is his opponent’s), Possible Longevity and Precognition, Invulnerability, Space-Time Manipulation, Can create a giant void that destroys all of existence, Can create worlds in his image, Time Paradox Immunity in Super form (Would be unaffected by the destruction of all timelines, including the one he originates from)

        Destruction Capability: At least Universal Timeline level (Superior to Count Bleck) | Multiversal level (Was going to destroy all worlds and timelines in the mario verse.)

        Speed: Infinite (Comparable to mario bros, who moved in the void.) | Infinite

        Durability: At least Universal Timeline level | Multiverse level (Would have survived the destruction of existence that he was going to cause)

        Stamina: Very high | Limitless
        Intelligence: Extremely high, conducted a scheme and manipulated almost everyone around him in order to get the Chaos Heart. He is also hinted to have created the Dark Prognosticus.

        Key: Dimentio | Super Dimentio

        Biolizard: As the prototype of the ultimate life form, which was aimed to create immortality, the Biolizard has many of the abilities attributed to the desired end-product. However, the various experiments had severely weakened him, and he required a life support system to stay alive.

        The Biolizard possessed a regenerative healing factor which let him restore and regenerate itself quickly when injured. He could as well asexually self-reproduce itself by creating pinks eggs seemingly out of nowhere.[5] The surface of the Biolizard’s skin was as well designed to absorb all outside attacks. With his life support system aiding him, the Biolizard’s skin could resist attacks to such a degree that any blow would just bounce off it, making him virtually invulnerable.[2] Additionally, the Biolizard was noted to possess a strong neck and tail.[6] While he was also not able to walk at one point, he was a very fast crawler, being able to keep up with both Sonic and Shadow as they circled around it by crawling.

        The Biolizard using Chaos Control.

        The Biolizard could project dark energy balls from his mouth and direct them in curved formations. He also had the ability to create a magnetic field, which he could use to either lift opponents helplessly into midair or move and repulse objects, allowing it to turn its eggs into projectiles or arrange them in different formations. By harnessing chaos energy from the Chaos Emeralds, the Biolizard was also capable of both making itself stronger[7] and performing Chaos Control by use of a special organ[6].

        Shoeing by these stats this should be the win for Dimentio so Maio stomps Sonic and Bowser stomps Knuckles.

      • That’s why you can’t just go by debating stats. Dimentio’s nowhere near universal/multiversal level. I played the game he was in and you take him down with standard attacks. Nothing at Dimentio’s disposal is all that impressive. The BioLizard’s energy balls would very quickly destroy Dimentio with a hit or two

  13. Block level????!!!!!! Yeah,like someone that could survive stars, the sun, black holes, lava at any temperature, the destruction of the universe could be block level. King dedede isn’t even close to Bowser’s power you are just talking about Smash and that doesn’t count. With research Bowser wins and with Ganondorf that is just from Death battle he just lost because Bowser didn’t use his full power, with the Dream stone he would destroy Ganon. No way the Koopa King could be block level you don’t know what Bowser is capable of do some research of him and you will see that Knuckles, King dedede, and ganon doesn’t stand a chance

    • Bowser’s attack power just isn’t that impressive. His durability is pretty good I’ll say but more to atmospheric stuff than actual combat attacks. It’s different getting punched by someone like Sonic or Mario as opposed to surviving a black hole. It’s a different skillset each time.

      • You are underestimating Bowser. You don’t know what he can really do, a punch of Super sonic doesn’t compare to the Big Bang. Do research of him or you just don’t know much about him then you will see what he can do Bowser you will see he is multiversal level and that he is a step ahead of knuckles.

      • Bowser’s not even close to multiversal though. Punches from Mario deal him damage and that guy just has some basic super strength. Trust me, there’s nothing about Bowser that would scare Knuckles here. Super Sonic is also too fast and powerful to ever get hit by King Koopa and the hits would add up very quickly.

  14. The Master emerald energy hasn’t prove that he can protect Knuckles from attacks like that its just shown that makes knuckles stronger that doesn’t compare even a little bit to Dreamy Bowser. Dreamy Bowser would remove Knuckle’s power and speed and that is a win for Bowser.

    • Dreamy Bowser can’t mess with Knuckles’ stats like that. At best he could amp up his a little bit but even then I wouldn’t count on his being able to do a whole lot here. The difference in speed is just too massive and there’s no way around it. No matter how strong Bowser may get he will ultimately never be a match for Bowser because of his lack of speed. That’s really what he is missing here

      • Don’t underestimate Bowser. Bowser was able to escape a black hole 4 times to do that it needs FTL speed that is much faster than light knuckles still hasn’t show very much with Hyper Knuckles its just have shown that he can compete with Super Sonic but hasn’t prove his speed. Dreamy Bowser can remove his speed remember he can wish whatever he wants and The Master emerald’s energy hasn’t prove to protect Knuckles or Sonic from things like that so stop saying that stuff.

      • You’re falling for the Bowser hype. He hasn’t done a thing here. The Black Holes is just him having a bit of fun but it doesn’t mean that he is FTL in the slightest. Trust me, Bowser’s not that fast or he would have used that speed by now. He probably just used some magic. Bowser wouldn’t be able to take their powers away, they’re protected by energy and are just plain stronger than Bowser. At the end of the day that’s why he’s out of luck

  15. Listen Dimentio durability is multiverse so it would take more than one or two attacks of Biolizard to take him down. Dimentio attacks are very powerful that would end Biolizard’s life easily.

  16. Dimentio is multiversal his speed is infinite, his durability is multiverse, and he has a destruction capacity etc. Biolizard just shown he can keep up with Super Sonic just a little bit. I don’t see that he would keep up with Dimentio and Mario has shown too to have better feats than Sonic. He can compete Sonic’s speed with the warp star, he is more durable, stronger, and his arsenal would help him very much with Sonic’ tricks.

    • I gotta disagree man. Okay, lets put it this way. Dimentio is a pretty fierce opponent for sure. I wouldn’t want to mess with him, but his abilities are way lower than what you’re trying to tell me. BioLizard wasn’t keeping up with Super Sonic at all, he was just eating every attack

      • Well if you say that Biolizard was just able to eat the attacks then that still doesn’t change what would happen in the end. Dimentio is still so god damn powerful. Dimentio has just better abilities than the robot lizard believe me.

      • BioLizard would eat Dimentio’s attacks in the same way and would then crush him with a powerful counter move. Look, Dimentio’s not all that bad but he’s just not ready to tangle with someone like Knuckles, not just yet at least. Same goes for the BioLizard

  17. Like I say a punch of Super Sonic isn’t compare to the Big bang. Knuckles hasn’t have anything to take down Bowser. Bowser is stronger, his fists are more stronger than knuckles, he escaped a black hole that requires FTL speed to do that so that means he is faster, he has more experience in battlefield, and he has better forms than Knuckles. Dreamy Bowser can easily remove his powers. I don’t see knuckles that he can do anything here, Bowser is just in the winning side in this match same for Mario.

    • I still gotta go against that. Bowser is not able to do anything against these guys. He can teleport and throw some punches but isn’t as strong as Knuckles or as fast as Sonic so at the end of the day that’s why I would really say he is out of luck here. The guy’s just not ready to deal with either opponent

  18. You don’t know much about Bowser. Do some research of him, see what he can really do and you will see what you are saying about him is wrong. Plus the Dream stone doesn’t have limits so that means Dreamy Bowser is limitless while the Chaos emeralds does have their limits, remember that it has a limited time of use so when he runs out of time he will run out of lives. I don’t see what Knuckles can do in here.

    • Trust me, I know more than most. I’ve been playing Bowser games for generations and I can tell you that’s why he’s out of luck here. Put this into perspective, Mario has been wrecking Bowser since day 1. The guy’s just a normal plumber with some super strength. How can Bowser hope to take on someone Knuckles? When reading through the feats it’s easy to lose perspective but what you need to remember is that Knuckles is just on a completely different level

      • I think they’re characters who sound better on paper due to lore and feats but in gameplay and action they just aren’t all that powerful

  19. If you really say that you played every single Mario game then you should have played Mario Galaxy 2 and Bowser inside story and have seen that he has been able to escape a black hole, it needs FTL speed to do that so that means that Bowser has proven better speed feats than Knuckles. Knuckles hasn’t shown any speed feat, he just shown that he can create volcano eruptions by punching the ground, that may be impressive but it doesn’t compare to Bowser send Peach’s castle flying around the earth in space in just seconds with one single powerful punch and destroying a universe with one hit. Knuckles just can compete with Bowser. The Chaos emerald’s energy and The Master Emerald’s energy hasn’t prove that it can protect Knuckles from moves that remove his speed or power so Dreamy Bowser can just make a wish of that and that my friend is how it ends.

    • I have played Mario Galaxy 2, let me redirect you to another game, good ole Mario 64. In that game Mario’s powerful enough to throw Bowser with ease and wreck him on the spiky balls. Is that really a guy who you’re trying to say is FTL here? He wasn’t even fast enough to dodge a plumber so what makes you think he would be fast enough to dodge Knuckles? You overestimate his abilities greatly. No amount of wishing on Bowser’s part will be enough to stop him

  20. In the old years and in 64 Bowser wasn’t impressive but in the time he has shown how powerful he is and shown very impressive feats he is FTL speed and he was able to dodge meteors too and in Odyssey he was able to block Mario’s attacks. Bowser wins.

    • True, back then they could show less with feats. Still, my case would be that if you look at Bowser even in modern games he’s not portrayed as being FTL or multiversal. Compare a boss fight with Dante to Bowser. In even the modern Bowser boss fights they don’t show him to be particularly fast at all

      • To escape a black hole you need to be FTL speed that is faster than light and Bowser escaped a black hole 4 times so that proves he is FTL speed even if he is not you need to be faster than light to escape a black hole and since Bowser escaped a black hole means that he is faster than light while Knuckles hasn´t prove any impressive speed feat so Bowser has the advantage. Bowser is multiversal if you only knew what he has doe during the years and I already said that he can use the dream stone, transform into Dreamy Bowser and that makes hi multiversal.

      • I would agree except it would be inconsistent with everything else we’ve seen from Bowser. He can’t be FTL or he would have crushed Mario a long time ago. Knuckles has actually fought and kept up with Super Sonic so he’s proved his abilities. Trust me, they’re in completely different leagues and there’s nothing wrong with that. Bowser just doesn’t have these kinds of abilities and Dreamy Bowser is better for abstract than direct moves

      • Mario is more what you think is like if your saying that Saitama is just a bald guy without powers that just wants to be a hero.
        Mario can shatter bricks with his bare fists since the first Super Mario Bros.

        He can lift up and toss Bowser around, who is at least as heavy as an adult elephant (2–7 tons). And that’s NOT counting his metal gears on his arms.

        He’s also strong enough to restrain a golden chain copper. Gold is much heavier than iron, and Mario is holding a whole sphere of it.

        He can also destroy castles with a few kicks and stomps, and even lift one up.

        While those castles may look small, that’s only because of that cutscene. Here’s how it really looks like:

        He regularly knocks out Bowser, who survived black holes that can destroy entire galaxies. Not to mention that Mario scales to Rosalina, who tanked and blocked the big bang multiple times (although it is unclear if Mario can survive the big bang).

        Mario, although not known for his speed, is surprisingly one speedy guy. He can run up walls and pipes in Super Mario World.

        In Super Mario 64, he outran Koopa the Quick, who was wearing Mach 1 Sprint Shoes. This means Mario can run faster than sound.

        He’s fast enough to dodge energy balls from the Koopalings. While those energy balls seem slow, that’s only so the player can actually dodge it.

        In Super Mario Odyssey, he can control being a bolt of electricity, meaning he has light speed reactions.

        In Super Mario Galaxy, Mario can predict when to land his feet on a planet after being launched through galaxies at light speed. That is over MFTL. Not to mention he had to move fast enough to flip over, otherwise, he would’ve landed on his face.

        In Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, he piloted the Star Driver, which is fast enough to travel through multiple galaxies in the blink of an eye. Mario was able to dodge everything that was in the way no sweat.

        He did something similar with the Starship Mario in Super Mario Galaxy 2, meaning we have three feats that show Mario is MFTL++.

        Durability/Stamina:

        Sonic has been able to survive the maximum overdrive from Metal Sonic, which is like a field of glowing energy.

        Sonic can survive reentry from orbit onto his face and only looked slightly fazed. He can also breathe in space.

        In Sonic Colours, he survived the black hole that he outran. Now, normal black holes are either the Star-Solar System level, and others can go past that if they get big enough. This black hole couldn’t even destroy the Earth. So we can assume this was a moon-level black hole.

        In Sonic Generations, Sonic survived a hit from Time Eater. Time Eater *almost* destroyed the Sonic universe, so we can assume that Time Eater is low universal. Sonic got knocked out afterward and needed the seven chaos emeralds to recover, but he still survived.

        Mario survived a castle imploding in his face and, while his face and clothes were burned, he only looked surprised.

        Mario can also breathe underwater (despite what Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey shows us).

        In Super Mario Galaxy, he survived the vacuum of space, and it was like he was still breathing air. In Super Mario Galaxy 2, he survived the same black hole that Bowser got sucked in by. Now, while he didn’t actually go inside it, he still survived the pull of it, which can still bend time and space apart.

        Mario scales to Rosalina, who tanked the big bang multiple times. Now, this is may seem like speculation, but there are 2 feats that support this. In Super Mario Galaxy 2, Bowser was powered by the Grand Star, a universal object. How do we know it is universal? By the fact that the entire universe was threatened when Bowser got this star, and also that Luma’s can create entire galaxies, Power Stars are just Luma’s with a massive power boost, so if this is the Grand Star, it must be at least universal. If Mario survived hits from Grand Star Bowser, he must be taking universal punches.

        In Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam, Mario scales to Paper Mario, who survived the destruction of the Sammer Kingdom, which is an entire universe.
        Mario’s signature technique is jumping, which allows him to stomp on enemies

        With the Ultra Jump, Mario can jump at over 100 feet in the air, and causes more damage than a regular jump

        Mario can deflect objects and smash through anything with the Star Spin

        Mario can also ground-pound enemies, which can smash through tanks

        He can dive toward his enemies or objects

        Mario can also roll on the ground

        Mario can kill enemies with the Spin Jump

        Power-ups/Gear:

        Mario:

        Fire Flower: Grants pyrokinesis

        Ice Flower: Same as Fire Flower but with ice abilities instead of fire

        Boomerang Flower: Allows him to launch a boomerang

        Blue Shell: Turns Mario into a Koopa, allowing him to smash through blocks

        Hammer: Smash through any material

        Boo Mushroom: Allows him to float and phase through walls.

        Super Mushroom: Doubles his power and height

        Lazy Shell: Shoots a turtle shell

        Bee Mushroom: Allows him to fly and sting like a bee

        Mega Mushroom: Turns him into a giant and grants him invulnerability

        Cannon Box: Allows him to shoot cannonballs

        Cape Feather: Allows him to fly in the air for a while and deflect projectiles

        Cappy: Allows Mario to kill enemies by launching his hat at them, or he can just possess them

        Fludd: Allows Mario to fly in the air like he has a jetpack, spray water at enemies and distract them, blast up in the air like a rocket, and allows Mario to travel through land and water quite easily

        Cloud Flower: Allows him to conjure up clouds for extra platforms

        Copy Flower/Double Cherry: Creates clones of himself with decreased durability

        Frog Suit: Improves his swimming ability and increases his jumping ability

        Gold Flower: Turns enemies and objects into coins

        Hammer Suit: Allows him to shoot mini hammers at enemies

        Superball Flower: Shoots bouncing metal balls

        Invincibility Leaf: Appears when Mario or Luigi can’t win a fight. Grants him invulnerability and flight until a fight/level is over. Same as Tanooki Mario

        P-wing: Grants him infinite flight until a level is over. It can also teleport Mario to the end of a level

        Super Bell: Grants him cat-like reflexes and abilities

        Lucky Bell: Same as Super Bell, but grants temporary invulnerability

        Metal Cap: Grants increased strength, stamina, agility, and complete invulnerability for 20 seconds

        Super Star: Grants increased speed, agility, and power, and complete invulnerability for 10 seconds. Can kill normal enemies by touching them

        Rainbow Star: Same as Super Star, but lasts 10 seconds longer

        Mini Mushroom: Turns him into the size of an ant, allowing him to enter mini pipes and run on water

        Vanish Cap: Makes Mario intangible for 10–30 seconds

        Propeller Mushroom/Box: Propels Mario upward for a short amount of time

        Red Star: Allows him to fly in the air, powered by a baby Luma

        Power Balloon: Allows him to float in the air like a balloon

        Rock Mushroom: Allows Mario to transform into a boulder

        Spin Drill: Allows him to drill to the other side of a Planetoid. Mostly used for exploring

        Spring Mushroom: Turns Mario into a spring

        Piranha Plant: Allows Mario to get anything in his way

        Carrot: Allows Mario to hover in the air like a…bunny?

        Super Acorn: Allows him to glide like a flying squirrel

        P-acorn: Same as Super Acorn, but with infinite flight

        Super Leaf: Allows him to fly in the air for a short time and kill enemies with a tail-spin move.

        Tanooki Suit: Same as Super Leaf, but with can turn into an invincible statue for a short time

        Statue Leaf: Same as Tanooki Suit, but more efficient and rarer to find

        Heart/Moon: Heals Mario

        Wing Cap: Allows Mario to soar through the air for a minute, needs momentum

        Luigi Cap: Grants him the abilities of Luigi, granting him increased speed, agility, stamina, and more natural techniques

        Wario Cap: Grants him the abilities of Wario, giving him increased strength, power, and durability

        Penguin Suit: Allows him to slide on ice and shoot ice balls

        LightBox: Grants him a source of light, can banish ghosts.

        Ice Skate: Can move quicker on ice and immune to harmful traps

        Goomba’s Shoe: Allows him to jump over spikes and can jump higher

        Bottomless Gloves: Grants him infinite power-ups

        Warp Pipe: Allows Mario to travel through entire worlds

        Earlier Times/Retry Clock: Allows him to travel through time to the start of a fight/level.

        Showing all of these I can confirm that Mario is more what you thing and Dimentio´s durability is multiverse.

      • These are a lot of great power ups but none of them show that he would be multiversal or hit at that level. The highest feats you have to display this seem to be Mario piloting ships that are FTL, but that’s not quite it. Would you say that Captain Kirk has FTL reactions because he can pilot the Enterprise in Star Trek? Ships make speed rather relative so Mario himself isn’t able to handle that. He can break bricks and do things like that so he does have superhuman strength but that’s about the extent of it. At the end of the day he still isn’t really ready for action here.

      • When are you going to understand that Mario isn´t a regular plumber? He is more impressive than you think. He has the pure hearts and beated many powerful beings that are capable for destruction capacity. Do you really think a normal plumber can do that?

      • I mean Mario isn’t an ordinary plumber of course but he’s closer to that than being someone who can take on Sonic. I’ve been going through the Bowser’s Inside Story game and Mario’s looked pretty bad throughout. He gets scared by average minions and gets blitzed by everyone. It’s why he wouldn’t be able to take down these more powerful fighters.

  21. I don´t believe that you have played every single Mario game, if you really didi that you should know what Mario has done.

  22. He still has done incredible things in the games than sonic and his power ups can counter all sonic powers like, for Sonic´s speed he has a power up that freezes time, for his super forms he has the star that makes vulnerable to any type of attack, and for Sonic´s attacks he has the metal cap that makes him super durable. Sonic will run out of luck in the end.

    • Freezing time won’t quite cut it against a Hedgehog who can move faster than the speed of light. At most he can delay the inevitable a bit here and trust me it won’t be a long term solution. At the end of the day you really want to have the best physical stats possible because that will absolutely counter hax and special abilities any day all day

      • Freezing time affects too the light and the time and Sonic hasn´t prove that he can escape time freeze so Mario´s power ups should do the trick.

      • You can always escape time control as long as you’re strong or fast enough. Sonic’s definitely fast enough to foot the bill here

  23. Bowser is FTL speed he hasn´t been able to beat mario because Mario has proven better feats. But still Bowser is FTL. He was able to keep up with Culex and Dark Bowser and has been able to keep up to with Mario. Even though Dreamy´s Bowser attacks aren´t direct are still so powerful that can finish Knuckles easily, trust me Knuckles can´t do anything here.

    • I definitely would not put Bowser at FTL. I wouldn’t even put him super sonic to be honest. Look, the guy was getting beaten up by Mario and friends back in the day and still loses to a lot of street level kind of opponents. Midbus was taking him down pretty easily when they last fought as well. When you put that all into consideration then Bowser is really not that good with speed. Keeping up with Mario just means that he can keep up with your average fighter but that’s about it. Mario just isn’t very fast and that’s why things get pretty tricky for him. He just doesn’t have that clutch factor needed to secure the comeback winn

  24. WHen are you going to understand that still Bowser escaped a black hole and that makes him faster than light? He is FTL speed just accept it, to escaped a black hole you need to have FTL speed and about Midbus, he only lost in their first fight because Bowser got weakened by a mushroom he ate. That give Midbus a huge advantage, but in their second fight Bowser won. Stop saying Mario is normal, he is not a normal plumber or a plumber that only has super human strength he beated many powerful foes with destruction capacity and is worthy to use the pure hearts. I don´t think a regular plumber can do that.

    • Because it just doesn’t add up. If Bowser was actually faster than light then why does he always look so slow when going up against Mario and friends? He would really be zooming around if that was the case. Midbus is still a pretty average fighter with normal speed and a lot of strength. You can’t tell me that guy’s FTL so how was he keeping up so well? Bowser is just way overhyped. Mario isn’t a normal plumber but he’s not some kind of big superhero when it comes to the feats

      • Because Bowser isn´t faster in feet like Sonic but still is a powerful fighter. Midbus still can´t compete with Bowser even transforming into Blizzard Midbus couldn´t beat Bowser. Mario still have shown feats of strength, speed, intelligence, and durability. Mario´s power ups just counters all Sonic´s powers. In the end of the day Sonic will be on the floor.

      • I like Bowser but he’s just not going to be in the same ballpark as someone like Knuckles because of the difference in speed. Put it this way, speed is the most important factor in a fight. You can have amazing strength and it’s just not going to be enough when you put someone into the ring. At the end of the day that’s why Sonic would beat Mario. Mario is strong and has skills but can’t counter Sonic’s speed. His timestop isn’t enough

  25. Mario doesn´t get scared enemies and being blitzed by them? He has been fighting many powerful enemies daily like: Bowser, Dimentio, Culex, Antasma, The Dark star etc.

    • Mario definitely gets real scared all the time. It’s a running gag in the Mario & Luigi series that he panics at just about every moment. He still gets the job done so Mario has courage but he does feel the fear a whole lot

      • I think that the one you are talking about is Luigi. When he fights Bowser or anyone else he doesn´t scream, hide or tremble.

    • As long as you’re fast enough you can escape anything. Sonic’s speed is the real deal so I definitely wouldn’t bet against him here. He’s definitely got the skills to pay the bills as they say

      • Like I say Sonic hasn´t show that he can escape time freeze. Time freeze can freeze anything! Time and light. There are characters that are fast but can´t escape time freeze like XLR8, he can´t even out run a train. Sonic can´t escape time freeze…For now.

      • I’m not sure I buy into that one. Anyone can escape another force so long as their energy is able to surpass it. Many people have broken through timestop before like Goku, Jiren, and Penny from RWBY. Sonic is faster than at least one of those characters

  26. Mario doesn´t gets scare fighting an enemy. He just gets shock, and he still is a brave person because he has the valenty to fight super powerful opponents. I am pretty sure that a blu hedgehog won´t scare him very much.

      • Counter will give Mario the win. Sonic can´t do anything to overpower mario´s power ups. mario has a power up that freezes time for Sonic´s speed, Mario has the metal cap for Sonic´ś strong attacks, and the star or the invincibility that grants invincibility for Mario for Sonic´s super forms. Lets not forget that Mario has other power ups that could finish Sonic like: Freezing his solid or Turn him into gold etc. Mario just has many things to overpower Sonic.

      • Freezing time won’t be enough to compensate for Sonic’s advantage in speed. The Hedgehog is one of the fastest creatures there is and will ease he will be able to run rings around Mario. That’s the issue for Mario, none of his counters do anything to stop Sonic’s advantages. At the end of the day you can’t really overcome such an advantage on technique alone. You need something more

  27. Mario´s power ups will counter everything of Sonic´s powers, plus Mario is in the same speed level of Mario since he had used the Star Driver. Freezing time will be enough for Mario to counter Sonic´s speed. Sonic is fast but not fast enough to escape time freeze. Mario will be the one winning at the end.

    • Mario’s not even close to Sonic level. Keep in mind that piloting a ship that is FTL isn’t the same as moving that level. Otherwise Captain Kirk would be FTL right? That’s why Sonic wins this. He’s way faster so Mario wouldn’t be able to really do anything against him

  28. Mario used the Star driver that can travel through galaxies in less than a minute! So that puts Mario in the same level of Sonic´s speed the Star Driver can even be faster than Sonic´s speed!

    • Nah, Star Driver is just a vehicle so it won’t help Mario for beans. Sonic can enjoy a good lunch and a nap while still being faster than Mario. Such is the power of the Blue blur

      • It still counts. We have to put all of Mario feats so the Star Driver still counts like a speed feat of Mario so that puts him in the same level of Sonic´s speed. Sonic will be beat up by Mario.

  29. It counts. The Star Driver is a feat of Mario and since i told you it can travel through galaxies in seconds it puts Mario in the level of speed of Sonic. And also Mario can overpower Sonic with his power ups.

      • It counts, plus we have seen Mario to turn himself into a bolt of lightning so that is another speed feat. Mario´s power ups aren´t slow they counter every one of Sonic´s abilities. That is why Sonic is doomed.

      • Still doesn’t count. Why do you think the Star Driver should count? Mario’s bolt of lightning only works when he has a rail so it won’t help at all in this round. At the end of the day Sonic’s just 2 fast and will be cleaning shop against Mario. You can’t underestimate this guy

  30. Mario has been able to pilot the star driver and dodge attacks while flying and since I told you many times that the Star Driver can travel through galaxies in just seconds that puts Mario reactions into the same reaction speeds of Sonic too so Mario can dodge attacks from Sonic too. Mario will overpower him, Sonic can´t handle Mario´s Strength, durability, and his huge arsenal.

    • Are you telling me that people who pilot spaceships which go faster than light have FTL reactions in the real world? It’s the same logic but we both know that’s not the case. That’s the problem with the Star Driver theory. It’s a fun one but not one that’s going to work here. That’s why Sonic is just too fast and would take Mario down for the count

  31. Mario can use the Star Driver while during fighting Sonic and that will help him so much here. He will be fast enough to dodge attacks from Sonic. If he uses the Star Driver it will help him so much for Sonic´s speed. Mario will finish Sonic in the end.

    • No that wouldn’t help Mario at all. At most he can use it to run but that’s about it. Sonic will just watch Mario drive that thing around aimlessly and then finish him off afterwards

  32. The Star Driver will help Mario very much. It would match Sonic´s speed. Lets not forgets that mario has his power ups that would overpower Sonic. Mario will finish Sonic in the end of the day.

    • It wouldn’t, my driving a car wouldn’t help me beat Road Runner after all. Plus, remember that none of Mario’s power ups even let him get close to Sonic. He would still get completely lolstomped right out of the gate

  33. The Star Driver will help Mario to handle Sonic´s speed it ca even match it. Mario´s power ups will get close to Sonic. Just because he is fast it doesn´t mean he can avoid everything, his speed has its limits. Mario will overpower Sonic with his power ups he can even kill Sonic by using his power ups like froze his solid or turn him into gold.

    • Mario isn’t fast enough to turn Sonic to ice or gold. Sonic will always be one or 100 steps ahead of Mario and that’s what makes him such a deadly opponent. I’d like to see Mario try and keep up of course because I like the guy but it wouldn’t be enough. While he’s piloting the ship Mario wouldn’t be able to do much fighting either which is why he is really doomed

      • I already told you that he can use the Star Driver that can match Sonic´s speed. Mario will still froze Sonic or turn him into gold and his power ups will overpower Sonic and it will be the end for him that is why Sonic is doomed. Mario is the one who is always 100 steps ahead of Sonic.

      • Sonic is always 100 steps ahead. Okay, I didn’t want to bring in the big guns but it’s time. Sonic is also far more intelligent than Mario. Mario tends to fall for simple plans while Sonic’s quite intelligent although he rarely shows it. The Star Driver won’t do much here since it’s just a vehicle

  34. It doesn´t matter if its a vehicle or not. He can still use it and it will help him very much and Sonic isn´t more intelligent than Mario. Mario uses strategies to beat his enemies and he outsmarts them. Mario is always one step ahead of Sonic.

    • He can still use it but it won’t help much in the fight. How do you think it will help here? Way I see it Mario will be racing that thing all around but still can’t really fight with it so it won’t help at all in the end. Sonic uses far more strategies than Mario to win. Mario just jumps a lot while Sonic uses the environment to his advantage

      • It will help because it would match Sonic´s speed. He can still use it while fighting. Mario has many advantages on Sonic while Sonic has just speed but it would be countered by the Star Driver and he would be overpowered by Mario.

      • He can’t use it while fighting. Mario would have to jump off of the ship or just hope that Sonic jumps on it. There’s no way that it helps him in the fight for those reasons

  35. He can use it while flying. Give me a good reason why he can´t but we already seen in Dream team he can attack while flying and its pretty obvious that he can. Its just like Captain Falcon that can attack too while flying.

    • I’m glad you brought up Captain Falcon because he’s a perfect example. When he steps out of the ship to attack people straight up then he isn’t able to move at the car’s speed and attacks like a normal human. I think that’s case closed

  36. The Star Driver is FTL speed because the Star Driver can travel through galaxies in just seconds while light would take him a few minutes so that makes the Star Driver faster than light. Mario would wreck Sonic.

  37. But since he can move as a bolt of lightning that is a very fast thing I am sure he can attack while in speeds faster than light.

    • I don’t see how, the momentum would throw him for a loop and that would put him in a tough spot. It’s like trying to pilot a train and then jumping off to fight someone. It would be difficult

      • Since the Star Driver is a gift from the seven legendary stars to Mario I am sure he give him the ability to attack while flying.

  38. Mario has more experience than Sonic. He appeared first than Sonic he has the experience in stomping enemies every day and Mario sure has many things to handle Sonic´s speed.

  39. If he uses the Star Driver it would help him so much here for Sonic´s speed. Keep in mind too that Mario was able to dodge meteors and attacks on the last second so we definitely can´t say that he is slow.

    • Yeah I won’t say that Mario is slow but I also would not say that he is fast like Sonic. At the end of the day I would say that he just won’t be able to keep up. It’s not a slight against him but he won’t be able to keep up with Sonic

  40. No, Mario would stomp Sonic he has his power ups to back him up. For Sonic´s forms he has the star and the invincibility and it would make him immune for Sonic´s attacks.

    • Sonic’s too fast for all of that. Mario’s power star will amp up his defense quite a bit but Sonic’s attacks will continue to deal massive damage either way and that’s why Mario will eventually fall

      • The star would make him immune since we saw in the Mario games and even Smash that he is immune to attacks. Plus in Smash if Sonic does his final smash and you have the star then it would protect you from his attacks and that expalins everything.

      • Yeah it does heavily amp up his defense, I agree with that but it wouldn’t make him completely immune or anything like that. There’s a big difference right there. It would just buy him time. Same for Super Sonic, he’s not fully invincible, just very durable

    • Right, the whole star making people immune thing doesn’t actually work out. What happens is that it increases your durability by a good amount but that’s all it does. You never become truly immune

      • Yes it does. In Mario the star makes you immune to every type of attack. If it really makes you durable then there must be an attack that could hurt you while using the star but there in no attacks that can hurt you even with the star.

      • There’s no such thing as true invincibility or immunity. It just means that you’re really durable and nothing in Mario’s verse is strong enough to hurt him. Super Sonic would be a completely different story. That guy can punch through just about anyone

  41. The star makes Mario invincible it even makes him immune to powerful guys like Bowser and he can even beat him very quickly by just touching him. If the star makes Mario immune to everything then that makes him invincible so it would really help him with Sonic´s super forms.

    • It gives Mario a lot of extra defense to be sure, but it doesn’t make him invincible. Sonic would just be able to punch him out of that mode the way Sonic always punches people out when they get in his way. Mario won’t last any longer than the others. He’s a tough guy, but not quite tough enough to handle that.

      Also, I finished playing through Dream Team and as expected the Star Driver is just a gameplay mechanic. It’s nowhere near FTL

  42. Bowser’s attacks can’t even affect Rainbow mario it doesn’t even gives him a single scratch and even other powerful enemies like: Antasma, Dimentio, Zeekeeper, Dreamy Bowser, Culex, The Dark Star and grand star bowser so that makes him immune to any type of attack no matter how powerful it is. Plus in smash Sonic’s final smash can’t even hurt Raibow Mario and none of the others final smash so that explains everything. And the Star Driver isn’t a gameplay mechanic it says it can travel thrugh galaxies in seconds so that makes him FTL.

    • Yeah Bowser would have a hard time to be sure if he was going up against Mario. Against Knuckles he wouldn’t even stand a chance though. The Super Smash Bros moments you mentioned are pure gameplay mechanics so I don’t see that really doing much here. I just played through the game and the Star Driver was not impressive at all. What do you mean travelling through galaxies? It does a little minigame where you pass by stars but it was all gameplay mechanics from start to finish

      • Oh my God! Gameplay mechanics are your only excuse! It doesn’t mater if its gameplay mechanic or not if it was been shown to do that then that’s enough proof. The star makes Mario invinicble because we have seen he is immune to every type of atack nd in smash Rainbow mario is immune to Super Sonic’s attacks so that explains everything. Knuckles really doesn’t stand a chance against the koopa king and Mario has his own starship in MG which crossed entire universes in 10 seconds, which would mean he can cross 9.1 BILLION light-YEARS every SECOND! Sonic can’t outrun something like that.

      • It’s not enough though. The whole thing about gameplay mechanics is that they’re basically meant to look like real feats but don’t actually help a fighter out. There’s no such thing as true invincibility so at most Mario could use the extra durability to tank a few hits but I’d say that’s all he will be able to do here. The difference in speed is still massive so Sonic will be able to pound away at him all day. Mario’s starship is fast but not quite that fast. Sonic would still be crushing Mario the instant he tried to jump off the ship to fight or anything like that. It’s all over for him

  43. If the star really makes Mario durable then there must be an attack that would affect Rainbow Mario but guess what? In all the Mario games and in Smash there is no attack that can do that and the ship would definetely beat Sonic in a race. Sonic is super fast but i don’t think he can compete with something that can cross 9.1 BILLION light-YEARS every second. And Mario could sure attack while flying the ship. Sonic is finished here.

    • That’s because in game it would defeat the purpose of the mode for anyone to be able to hurt him. It’s not saying that he is invincible or anything but his durability goes up immeasurably in the meantime. I don’t see any way someone could hope to take him down here except for someone like Sonic and the others of course. Mario couldn’t attack while flying the ship. Think of it like driving a car and someone’s running along side you punching the windows. The only way for you to fight back is to stop the car to fight him and at that point you’re pretty much doomed right? What are you going to be able to do against a fighter like that? Sonic’s got the edge here

      • Even in Smash Super Sonic´s attacks can even tickle Rainbow Mario. Mario has been able to take the speed of the Star Driver and able to move as a bolt of lightning. Sonic can compete with Mario´s ship he may be fast not not fast enough to outrun something like this his speed has limits. Sonic is impressive but Mario is just in another level of impressive and Bowser too.

      • Yeah but Super Smash Bros is filled with gameplay mechanics. Otherwise how could any of these guys even be fighting Sonic in the first place? He could blitz them all in his sleep with one hand tied behind his back. Such is the power of Sonic the Hedgehog. Mario’s got good reaction times but he isn’t nearly fast enough to hope to keep up with Sonic and that’s where his downfall will be. It’s all game over for him

  44. If Star Mario could have been able to take all of Super Sonic´s attacks without even getting a scratch then the star will help Mario for Super Sonic and Sonic can´t beat all of Smash´s fighters there are many fighters that would beat him like: Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Palutena, Sephiroth etc. Mario has many power ups that would help him overpower Sonic. Sonic is in Game Over.

    • Star Mario couldn’t even beat King Boo in Luigi’s Mansion. He has no chance against powerful hits from Sonic. I would acknowledge that Sephiroth may stand a chance against Sonic, but he cleans up the rest of those fighters you mentioned. Don’t underestimate that Sonic has defeated gods and many other such foes in the past

  45. Star Mario can even affect Boos too in the Mario games. In Smash and in the other Mario games there is no attack that can affect Rainbow Mario he would be immune to all Super Sonic´s attacks and there is still many fighters in Smash that can easily beat Sonic. Sonic is impressive for sure but he isn´t invincible there are many other guys that can beat him and Mario is one of them. Mario has fought and defeated Gods too in the past such as: Zeekeeper, Dimentio, Culex, Antasma, Dreamy Bowser, Grand Star Bowser, and the Dark Star.

    • Yeah Boos definitely don’t want to mess with Star Mario. Rainbow Mario wouldn’t be able to stand up to Sonic though. Sonic’s abilities are just way too powerful at this point and he could shake off any hit that Mario tried to throw his way. Those fighters in Smash couldn’t hope to beat Sonic though. Mario’s beaten some tough guys but Sonic would still smoke him thanks to the big speed advantage. There just wouldn’t be a way for Mario to even hope to land a blow. That’s the big difference in their respective abilities

      • There are Smash fighters that would beat Sonic easily. Mario is way to tough for Sonic to handle. Mario has the durability advantage over Sonic he could tank almost anything that Sonic can throw at him. Mario has his starship that can travel entire universes in just ten seconds, Sonic wouldn´t be able outrun that. Sonic would be able to avoid attacks from Mario thanks to his speed but its just a matter of time Mario lands a fatal blow on Sonic. He can´t avoid everything. Rainbow Mario would resist all of Super Sonic´s attacks without trouble. Mario has the upper hand here.

      • Mario’s durable but not as durable as Knuckles and Sonic is able to deal a ton of damage to him. That’s why Mario’s out of luck here. There’s just not a whole lot that he could really hope to do in this round. He would end up getting completely overwhelmed and lose to Sonic’s unimaginable power. Even with Rainbow mode Mario’s just not ready for this level of power. Sonic takes the advantage and just never lets go

  46. Mario survive an explosion of 2.4 megatons of TNT while Sonic just survived an explosion of 199.5 kilotons. Mario is a too tough for Sonic and Knuckles he was even been able to take hits from gods that is very crazy. Sonic and Knuckles are out of hope in here. Mario´s power ups are going to be the key here he can overpower both of them with his power ups and for his super forms he has the star and the invincibility leaf that grants him invincibility and he would be immune to Knuckles´ and Sonic´s attacks. Mario and Bowser are both too powerful for Sonic and Knuckles too handle.

    • Sonic and Knuckles win this round every time. The issue for Mario and Bowser is that they just aren’t fast enough here. They are strong and durable but that’s not enough when going up against speedsters at this level. Sonic has his Super Sonic form which is so powerful that a single hit might be enough to take Mario out of the running. How can you hope to stand up to such overwhelming power? All I know is that this puts Mario and Bowser in a very dicey spot because they won’t really be able to stand up to this level of power. When you take all of that into consideration Sonic has got this in the bag

      • Bowser and Mario has this victory in the bag. Sonic may be fast but his speed can be overpowered thanks to Mario´s power ups he can use his power up time freeze for his speed and his starship and Sonic´s speed won´t be able to handle Mario´s durability since Mario could take anything that Sonic can throw at him. Mario could overpower Sonic by freezing or even turn him into gold and his power ups can counter all of Sonic´s powers. He has the metal cap for Sonic´s strong attacks, his power up time freeze for his speed, and the star and the invincibility leaf that grants Mario invincibility for Sonic´s super forms. Mario gots the advantage.
        Knuckles is out of hope too against Bowser. Bowser just has many advantages over him. Strength, Durability, Versatility, Speed, (Because he escaped a black hole and can keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds) Experience, Arsenal, and better forms. The only advantage that Knuckles has is intelligence but that won´t help much he would still be finished by Bowser and if Knuckles turns hyper Bowser could use the Dream Stone and transform into Dreamy Bowser who is a multiversal god that can create and wishe anything. He could easily wish that Knuckles dies and that would be Game Over for him. Mario and Bowser are the winners.

      • Mario’s too slow here. At the end of the day Sonic has the edge because he’s way too fast for Mario. Mario’s Power Star may allow him to survive a few of Sonic’s punches but that’s about it. Once Sonic gets into a groove then that’ll be all over for him. Mario would have to try and outwit Sonic but that isn’t happening since Sonic is also very smart. At the end of the day it would be a pretty lopsided battle here.

        As for Bowser and Knuckles, Bowser is too slow here. He wouldn’t be able to wish Knuckles away either because that guy is the protector of the Master Emerald and has a whole lot of willpower at his disposal. When you put that into perspective as well then things are going to get really dicey for him. I like Bowser but he’s just outgunned here

  47. Mario´s durability blows out Sonic´s speed and even though Sonic is fast he can´t avoid everything it´s just a matter of time he gets hit and Mario has his starship that would help him for Sonic´s speed. Mario would overpower Sonic thanks to his power ups. Sonic can´t do anything against his power ups it counters all of Sonic´s abilities: The metal cap for Sonic´s strong attacks, Mario´s power up time freeze for his speed, and the star or the invincibility that would make Mario immune to Super Sonic´s or Hyper Sonic´s attacks and Mario is very smart too he could outsmart Sonic like he does to his enemies. Sonic can´t really do anything because Mario just counters Sonic´s all abilities that is why he is doomed.

    Bowser is a lot faster than Knuckles too since he could escape a black hole that would require FTL speed and been able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds and Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! Its really hard to believe that Knuckles can compete with that. Knuckles has will but not willpower since he hasn´t used anything of that not even once! You can´t just say that Knuckles has willpower when we haven´t see Knuckles use anything like that he would be finished by one of Dreamy Bowser´s wishes.

    • Bowser’s not even Supersonic in speed given how Mario is always throwing him everywhere so he won’t be able to even compete with Knuckles. Knuckles would be throwing Bowser around in the same way only with more power and speed. Keep in mind that Knuckles was trading blows with Sonic back in the day and has only gotten stronger. There’s nothing Bowser could do against him.

      For Sonic vs Mario it becomes a case of speed. Mario wouldn’t be able to keep up and his power ups wouldn’t help either as Sonic tosses him around like a volleyball

      • Bowser is a lot faster than you think. He was able to escape a black hole! That is something that even light can´t escape that makes Bowser FTL and he is able to keep up with Mario´s starship that can travel through universes in just ten seconds and Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! Bowser is very fast and he is still getting beaten by Mario because Mario is a lot more powerful than Knuckles and Bowser defeated Mario once. Bowser is FTL while Knuckles isn´t as fast as Sonic and he would be finished by the wishes of Bowser.
        Mario counters all of Sonic´s abilities. He can´t do anything, the metal cap for Sonic´s attacks, the time freeze or the star ship for Sonic´s speed, and the star and the invincibility leaf for Sonic´s forms. Mario´s durability blows out Sonic´s speed and he could take anything that Sonic could throw at him. That is why Sonic is doomed he may be impressive and could win this in some circumstances but he would be beaten by the red plumber.

      • The Black Hole isn’t a good speed feat because it was all power. I could counter with Mario who was moving at normal street level speed pounding the fight straight out of Bowser. I just played Dream Team so you’re not going to get me with those calcs. Dream Luigi has no good feats and isn’t anywhere close to FTL. Same for Antasma and Dreamy Bowser who are fairly okay. Sonic and Knuckles were faster than Bowser and Mario on day 1 and still are by a huge margin. There’s no catching them

  48. The Black hole is a good speed feat. Bowser didn´t use anything of power he just used strength and speed. He used strength when he pulled himself out but when he launched himself out without getting sucked back he uses speed and he used a speed that is FTL. Mario stills beat Bowser because he is way more powerful than Sonic and Knuckles. You may have played Dream Team but you didn´t read the guide it says that Dreamy Bowser scales to Antasma, who took on Dreamy Luigi, who jumped to into distant constellations in a timeframe of one second. Assuming it’s the lowest possible distance, the distance of Alpha Centauri, 4.24 light-YEARS away, Dreamy Luigi can travel 4.24 light-years EVERY SECOND! And Bowser is able to keep up with Mario´s starship that is able to travel through entire universes is just ten seconds. Bowser is FTL just by hearing he can do that. Bowser and Mario are way more powerful than you think you are underestimating them and that is something you shouldn´t do. Bowser and Mario are superior.

    • Bowser was only using strength. As you mentioned he launched himself with strength asnd that’s really the end of the story. Guidebooks are secondary to what happened and you’re mixing up gameplay mechanics with feats. These guys aren’t actually all that high tier

      • You just don´t want do understand. Bowser inly used strength when he pulled himself out. Speed does the rest of the job when he launched himself because if he wasn´t sucked back when he launched himself then he must have used a launching speed that is FTL. Bowser didn´t use any of strength in that part because we didn´t see he used strength or power or neither defense and we all know that. Scientists even confirm that is impossible for someone to escape a black hole just by using strength even for someone like Bowser. Scientists say that speed is the key when you try to escape a black hole and you know it. Bowser is FTL just understand that you just can´t say that Bowser used brute strength when we didn´t saw him using strength when he launched himself out without getting suck back. Bowser is in a way higher level than Knuckles same to Mario and Sonic.

      • Nah that was all speed. Trust me on this, Bowser doesn’t have this kind of speed. Otherwise Mario wouldn’t be tossing him around all the time. Bowser wishes he were that fast and sometimes I wish it was the case too because I do like Bowser. But the stats and feats just don’t support him being very fast at all. Knuckles would be running rings around him while eating a donut and doing push ups. The difference in their respective abilities is huge. Knuckles could even have time to wink at the cameras and he would still get out of there in time.

  49. You just say that Bowser escaping the black hole was all speed. Bowser used speed he didn´t use any defense or power when he launched himself without getting sucked back. make yourself any excuses you want but we all know we didn´t saw him using defense or power. He was able to keep up with Starship Mario who can travel through entire universes in just ten seconds. That makes him even MFTL. Mario keeps beating him because he has way better feats and he is more powerful than Knuckles too. Knuckles isn´t really fast he wasn´t even shown to be able to outrun a cheetah. He wouldn´t go around Bowser and avoiding his attacks while doing other thing he doesn´t have the speed to do that. Bowser outclasses him in almost everything and he would be finished by Dreamy Bowser. Bowser is way powerful and you are underestimating him which is something you shouldn´t do.

    • You’re overestimating Bowser here and underestimating Knuckles. Bowser escaping the black hole was all power and speed wise he’s not very fast since Mario’s always beating him up. If a slightly overweight plumber is speedblitzing you then you can’t be that fast. Meanwhile Knuckles is always keeping up with Sonic which is impressive and shows that he is insanely fast. He would be able to counter Bowser at every opportunity and then that would be game over. No comebacks on this round.

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