Suggested by Anonymous This onem’s probably going to be a bit of a hot take but Doflamingo has always seemed way more impressive to me than Whitebeard. Whitebeard has the strength to be sure but he is severely lacking in speed. There’s no way for him to keep up with Doflamingo to really use his power. Doflamingo’s strings are also impressive enough to where he could stop a whole city’s worth of the strongest One Piece characters. This will slow Whitebeard down for sure and now the speed difference is just insane. Doflamingo wins.
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Doflamingo, the guy who attacked Issho, who casually blocked the blow way back in Dressrosa? Issho is at least on the level of the other admirals including Borsalino, Kuzan, and so on. The admirals are comfortably above the level of the warlords, who Doflamingo was a member of. And you think that Doffy is taking on Prime Whitebeard and is gonna win? Now, that’s a hot take if I ever saw one. Not to mention that old and sick Whitebeard was capable of keeping up with all of the admirals plus Akainu during Marineford, with very little haki use at that. The very same old Whitebeard who beat Akainu in two hits, mind you. Sorry, but the Heavenly Demon is nowhere near the level of the World’s Strongest Man. I seriously doubt Doffy’s Parasite strings would have any effect on the guy who stalemated Roger, who also kneeled to the throne.
This definitely is a bit of a hot take for sure but I feel like he has the feats to back it up. Doflamingo took out Gear 4 Luffy and was keeping Zoro and an admiral at bay for a long time. Prime Whitebeard is fast but he’s still just one guy and I have a hard time seeing him keep up here. I think his strings would be able to block Whitebeard’s attacks and then his aerial mobility would do the rest. Doflamingo is one of the best all around fighters in the series
Versatility does not equal power. Sure, Doffy has lots of options at his disposal, but can that compensate for raw might? No. No, not at all.
You do realize that as of Dressrosa, Luffy was far, far weaker than Whitebeard in his prime, right? So Doffy taking out Gear 4th Boundman is nothing spectacular in the least. Doffy had years and years of experience with his devil fruit to back him up anyway, which Luffy didn’t really have. Sure, Luffy had Gear 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not awakening. So I’m not really sure how it’s so impressive that Doffy beat a character (Luffy) who is far, far beneath Whitebeard’s caliber. That logic breaks down effortlessly. If Doffy could contend with current Gear 5th Luffy, which is fairly doubtful, then yeah, you could make an argument for him taking out Whitebeard. I personally believe Gear 5th is still slightly weaker than prime Whitebeard, Roger, and Kaido, but that’s just me.
Doffy’s strings are strong, but not strong enough to take on Whitebeard with. Armament haki and his signature tremor fruit both pretty much take away any advantage Doffy’s strings could have. Brute strength should take care of them easily as well.
And to end things off, do you consider Doflamingo to have parity with Roger? Or Kaido? Because that’s basically what you’re saying. I’m not throwing any insults at you in the least, I’m just curious as to what your stance is on top tiers in One Piece.
I agree that versatility won’t always beat power but I’d say it is enough in this case. Okay think about it this way. Mingo’s strings were strong enough to stop Fujitora, Law, and Zoro with ease. They would be able to pierce Whitebeard and the guy isn’t fast enough to dodge forever, even in his prime. So the hits would add up.
I have Doflamingo over Roger as well but definitely way under Kaido. (I have Whitebeard as being over Roger as well tbh) That said, I consider Kaido to be wayyyyyyy more powerful than either of those two. Not sure if you saw my top 30 list but it wouldn’t change much even when counting the dead characters and prime forms. Currently Kaido, Mihawk, Zoro, Luffy, and Shanks are the true top tiers of the verse and any one of them would wash Mingo in an instant for sure.
After that you generally have Yamato, the admirals, and the rest of the Yonkou.
I think where we differ here is mainly that I already had Luffy above Whitebeard by Dressrosa. To me he surpassed old man Whitebeard back in Marineford and then he passed prime Whitebeard at the start of the timeskip. I don’t have Whitebeard nearly as high as the other bigshots and Yonkouin the verse. He just never really impressed me like that. So I don’t think Whitebeard’s haki would be enough to block the strings and because of that it would be a case of him being worn down the whole time
I fail to see how Doffy stopping Zoro, Fujitora, and Law makes for much of a feat. Correct me if I’m wrong, but none of these characters were able to fight and hold their ground against Roger, who is, ya know… portrayed as the strongest of them all? Well, I guess you could mention Rocks too, but for the most part, Roger is the true top tier, aside from maybe Joy Boy. Whitebeard was able to fight equally with Roger, and might have even been stronger than him with the tremor fruit. I’d like to place Whitebeard above Roger too, but only because I like his character more than Roger, but that would just be personal bias that goes against the cannon.
Doffy OVER Roger? Wow. I have no words to match that, really. If Doffy was that powerful, he could’ve sneezed on Luffy (gear 4th) in Dressrosa and he’d be history. That power scaling is so wonky I don’t understand it.
So, Luffy surpassed the Strongest Man in the World by the time he went to Marineford? Well then, he’s now as strong as Mihawk I guess. If that’s the case, then he could’ve low diffed Kaido with little to no effort, gear 5 or not. And no, Luffy did not surpass Whitebeard during the war. If he did, then why didn’t he one-shot all of the Admirals in his way? Kuzan effortlessly beat Luffy way back in the story well before Marineford, and Luffy was powerless to do anything. Yet, Whitebeard could stop him, plus the other admirals, and even after being encased in ice, Whitebeard could counter it. Yet, apparently, Luffy is stronger than that. If you legitimately believe that Luffy surpassed Whitebeard as of Dressrosa, then Luffy no longer needs any gears to get stronger. That is some of the most outlandish power scaling I have ever seen to date, and yes, I’ve seen your top 30 and personally I think it’s mostly on point but still wrong. I also would prefer real, concrete evidence as to how Doffy would harm and keep up with Whitebeard, as opposed to saying, “well, I think he would win because he did this, this, and that to these guys way back in Dressrosa.” Yet, not one, not even one single character in Dressrosa was stronger than old Whitebeard, let alone prime Whitebeard.
Also, I’m not really sure how the string-string fruit is stronger than the tremor-tremor fruit, when the latter is considered to be the strongest of the paramecia class. I guess my reading comprehension skills are a little lacking, given that strings seem to be far weaker to earthquakes in my opinion. I also seem to forget where it was stated that a warlord of the sea was stronger than the Pirate King’s peer, who holds the second highest bounty in the story.
I’m just not sold on Roger though. Zoro and Law should both be able to beat him although I agree that for now Prime Roger is above Fujitora. Roger is the Pirate King but I would argue he was never the strongest or among the strongest in the pirate realm. Whitebeard has the strongest title and I feel like Roger would have had it if he was more powerful.
Gear 4 Luffy was incredibly broken. It wasn’t so much an anti feat for Doffy as just a big feat for Luffy. I consider Mihawk to be significantly stronger than Whitebeard though. He singlehandily walked up to Shanks and talked trash back in the day without fear. The implication is that he could have beaten Shanks and the whole crew if he wanted too. That guy is top 2 in the verse right now and there’s a massive gap until 3rd place.
The Admirals were also stronger than Whitebeard. Keep in mind that Marineford Whitebeard was really weak. Comparatively speaking of course but he was under all the admirals and safely below Luffy as well. He was too old and broken to put up much of a fight because he was absolutely devastated and on life support. When Kuzan beat Luffy that was even before Gear 2 so it doesn’t mean much. It also took all 3 admirals to take Luffy on when he wanted to climb which already hints at his power. Luffy is easily the most underrated character in all of One Piece except for maybe Yamato. Until Luffy beat Kaido nobody gave him respect as one of the top fighters in the verse.
The reason the string fruit is better than the tremor fruit is because it’s more versatile. There is just so much that you can do with strings like attacking and blocking while the Tremor fruit has no subtlety and you always know what to expect. Earthquakea are good but give me strings that can rip someone to shreds instead in an instant. It’s not about raw power in this case but in terms of which one is more useful and that’s the strings.
I say Mingo would win this because he’s also a lot faster. all he has to do is point a lot of attacks at Whitebeard and overwhelm him. WB’s haki isn’t enough to protect him from the string strikes and his defense will quickly be whittled away into nothing. That would be the end of him.
dreager im late but im sorry, Prime Roger=Prime whitebeard>kaido>g4 luffy>doflamingo. mihawk is strong but nowhere near prime whitebeard. Keep in mind that Roger is probably THE best haki user and clashed with rocks pirates and fought sengoku and garp on equal terms so as prime whitebeard. Name one single person that doffy defeated that could rival all those people. Doffy will get shit on, booty clapped, destroyed on so many levels.
If you think doffy’s speed is gonna help him mind you that Wb’s observation haki is probably greater then that of Katakuri so whitebeard dont gotta worry about that especially with his huge aoe attacks.
this is just a shit answer and another doflamingo D rider.
Ehhh I’m still not buying the Prime Roger hype. Now if we do see what went down at God Valley it could help but Kaido’s feats absolutely destroy every character in the series at this point. Based on portrayal we can reasonably put some people above him but I just don’t see Roger or Whitebeard being close to that level.
Mihawk and Shanks should both be massively stronger than Roger and Whitebeard or their hype wouldn’t make sense.
Now lets talk Doffy, he was able to hold his own in dodging G4 Luffy for a while and his strings make him the most versatile fighter in the series. WB’s observation haki is good but it can only help so much when the speed difference is so great. It’s like Spider Sense, it lets you know that an attack is coming but if you’re not physically fast enough to dodge then you’ll get hit anyway. That’s pretty much what is going on here
First off, Mihawk and Shanks are both probably close to Roger and Whitebeard in their primes, but until we get full confirmation on their power levels I think it would be better to assume that they are still slightly weaker than the Pirate King and the World’s Strongest Man. Shanks is missing an arm and just spams attacks that Roger used, and Mihawk was the guy who launched one, just ONE attack at Whitebeard and then Jozu was the one who blocked it for Whitebeard, who did not even bother with countering said attack. Mihawk might have been younger and healthier than Whitebeard during the Marineford War, but Whitebeard still mops the floor with Mihawk, no doubt. Mihawk has some of if not the best swordsmanship skills we have ever seen to date, but Whitebeard still has some of the absolute best feats in the story to date, not to mention the most destructive paramecia fruit.
Kaido has very, very impressive hype, but even Kaido was hyping up Roger’s haki mastery, and even mentioned how Roger, Whitebeard and Rocks were all capable of clashing with him equally. Until we know for certain that Kaido and the newer characters have surpassed the old, it is better to assume the old guard is still stronger than the new generation. Oda constantly hypes up the old gen, including Rayleigh, Garp, Rocks, Roger and maybe even Garling, too. I think this provides more than enough evidence to place Kaido as close to the old gen in power, but still slightly lacking. Remember that Whitebeard was still active as a pirate while Kaido was around, and that Kaido did not make any serious moves to find the One Piece until Whitebeard was out of the picture.
An old and out of his prime Whitebeard was capable of tracking Kizaru’s movements during the war. It is debatable if he used haki or future sight to track Kizaru, but it hardly matters. The point still stands that he could see his movements and such, all while in a state of less than optimal condition. This is also the same Whitebeard who took out Akainu with only two hits, while at death’s door. Whitebeard was not in his prime and yet still preformed as well as he did at Marineford, but you think that Doffy of all characters is stronger than him? Really? An old and sick Whitebeard could tank attacks from a serious and enraged Akainu, yet Whitebeard in his PRIME is still weaker than Doffy??? If Doffy is stronger than Whitebeard, do you think he could solo all of Marineford on his own with just his string-string fruit? I highly doubt it. Doflamingo is pretty lucky he did not die in the crossfire during the war if you ask me.
I get what you’re saying but Whitebeard still has no answer to Doflamingo’s strings. Mans could just flex em out of there and they would cut Whitebeard to ribbons. He isn’t fast enough to dodge them even if he was able to react to them in time. This would really put him in a bad spot and yes even prime Whitebeard I don’t see doing anything to Doffy. Part of this is on Oda but he hasn’t made the old guard look as impressive as they should. Every time we’ve seen Roger or Whitebeard, they look slower and weaker than Katakuri or Luffy G4.
Doffy would have outperformed Whitebeard at Marineford and definitely wouldn’t have died so easily. As for Kaido vs the old guard, the anime is my proof. He and Luffy were shown to be in a completely different league than any other character in the verse. The fight was basically DBZ level and I think even by the end of the series Luffy and Kaido may end up being the top 2 fighters although we’ll have to see how that goes.
Mihawk and Shanks are wild cards but I’d assume they are significantly stronger than Roger ever was
You honestly think that the guy who fought all three admirals while dying has no answer to some weak strings? Really? The same guy who beat Akainu in TWO hits while enraged over the death of Ace?? Good grief. I have no words. You do realize that Kuzan, or Aokiji was the one who made Doflamingo run when he was beating Smoker, the same character (Kuzan) that had one battle with Whitebeard then left him alone for the rest of the war. If Doflamingo is at minimum admiral level, as you seem to claim, then why did he run from Kuzan when he has the all-powerful string-string fruit? Riddle me that. And claiming that Oda has done nothing to show case how strong the old guard in One Piece were in their primes is some next level delusion, jeez. Oden, the guy who scared Kaido, was the same guy who Whitebeard played around with in battle until he got bored and took him out with ONE gura quake, yet still you make the assumption that Oda has done nothing to hype up the old guard. Or how Rayleigh came out of retirement to square off against Kizaru, yet despise all the gambling and drinking and so on, he was still capable of holding the admiral at bay. If nothing else, the story’s narrative hypes up the old guard plenty, you just seem to not acknowledge it. I would very much like to hear your thoughts on Rocks, Imu, God’s Knights, and the Gorosei when they all start showing off their true power. All of them are from the old guard or even ancient generation, and Imu might even be the final villain of the series.
If Doflamingo could do better than Whitebeard at Marineford, then he would have no reason to be scared of his boss, Kaido. In fact, if he was so powerful, then why did he not attack Whitebeard during the war just to get rid of him? Then he could cement himself as the new strongest man in the world. Or maybe, just maybe, he knew he could never lay a finger on Whitebeard and simply decided to let the admirals handle him? Again, you have no proof that Doffy is stronger than Whitebeard other than simple bias. I would like to see at least one panel showing Doffy fighting against an admiral, just ONE. Oh wait, one does not exist. Jozu and Marco together could have stomped Doffy into the ground, without any need for Whitebeard to get involved. And no, Kaido and Luffy will not be the top 2 by the end of the series. It will more than likely be Luffy and Blackbeard, or probably Luffy and Imu. It all greatly depends on who the true final villain in the series is. Who knows? Luffy may be forced to join forces with Blackbeard to defeat Imu. That would be a strange if not interesting conclusion to the story.
As for Mihawk and Shanks, I would guess that Mihawk is about an 8, Shanks is 9 or possibly 10, and prime Roger is most likely 10 or maybe even 11. The story hypes up Roger as one of the strongest of all time, and while Mihawk and Shanks are strong, I doubt either of them are quite that level yet. Oda loves Shanks, which is why his true power has been kept a secret for so long, which is why I personally think that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. Shanks is the current day’s Roger, and he might even be equal to prime Roger or slightly stronger. We do not know as of right now, but judging by narrative, Oda’s words, and feats in the manga, no one has yet to surpass Roger and Whitebeard. The only wild cards would be characters such as Rocks, Imu, Joy Boy, and maybe Dragon.
Recent chapters are looking really bad for Dragon so it’s safe to say he’s probably admiral level at best but likely even under that which is unfortunate.
Yeah I think the strings are just that broken. They let Doflamingo strike way above his weight class and make him a top tier threat. I don’t think almost anyone in the verse could break them except the top tiers. It’s why even Zoro and Fujitora couldn’t. I admit Aokiji scaring him off was a bit weird but I’d interpret that more as Doflamingo not wanting to get into a serious fight and not that he would lose. He would win but it would take time and effort, two things Doflamingo couldn’t afford at that time. Same for why he didn’t just destroy Whitebeard because it would be a hassle and put a target on his back.
For Mihawk and Shanks it’s always a real good debate for sure. For now I assume Mihawk is stronger but that one really could go either way so I look forward to seeing how that plays out. Mainly my beef is just with Roger who I still consider to be the most overhyped character in the series. He just hasn’t shown me anything that would warrant him being at or near the top of the verse. Taking on Whitebeard just wasn’t hype enough. Now if we ever see the events of God Valley then that could help tremendously.
conqueror haki infusion into the attacks. Doffy cant do it. He would get 1 tapped just like Kidd against prime whitebeard. Old man white beard I think has the durability to fight Doffy but the speed is going to be a factor. Raw power its pretty obvious that old man whitebeard had more firepower that gear 4 luffy in dress rosa. Rayleigh was stronger than gear 4 in the flashback pretty much dogging luffy around. He’s also in the old man category but hes just healthy compared to WB. I think the reason we didnt see the full potential of WB at marine ford is 1 he wanted to invade and save someone totally a different objective than a 1v1 and 2 because we hadnt had all of the haki feats explored yet. Doffy is probably great at all 3 forms of haki but WB would know the advanced levels of all of them. How capable is he at his old age is going to be the only factor but hes got more fire power and durability for sure. I think hes also got more range with the tilting of the sea feat his abilities can affect farther than Doffy with the cage. I belive Fuji could have broken the cage if he wanted to but the warlords are apart of the same faction so he cant take that kind of action without consent from the higher ups as an admiral.
I think the power structure roughly goes like
Yonkos>Admirals>Mihawk>1st dev commanders>Garp/Rayleigh>warlords