Shadow vs Knuckles

Posted on March 30, 2013 by dreager1

Knuckles definitely has a lot of raw power at one good punch would knock most opponents for a loop. Still, Shadow is pretty legendary and with Chaos Control on his side…he’s just not the type to be defeated. In his Super Shadow form he’d have the massive speed advantage and while Knuckles may be physically stronger, he’d have a tough time landing a solid blow on Shadow. Shadow wins.

Fanfic version below!

The Ultimate Life Form vs the Powerhouse

407 thoughts on “Shadow vs Knuckles”

jmanjp on March 30, 2013 at 10:39 am said:

Actually, i have a different opinon, i think knux takes this. Knux would usually lose to shadow because people don’t truly understand his power, However i do. He takes this via control of the m.a., knuckles slam, and just pure durability.

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- dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm said:
  
  Knuckles is powerful, but Shadow is vastly faster. Knuckles probably wouldn’t be able to land a solid hit on him and Shadow’s would definitely add up quickly. In his Super Shadow form his blows do a lot of damage
  
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jman on March 30, 2013 at 8:55 pm said:

Well, knuckles could negate his the chaos energy via his chant, which would make shadow, just another sonic. After that shadow only has super speed and durability (which knuckles has more of) after that thunder arrow (which is suuuuuper fast chaos energy), knuckle slam (fire barrier that will give knuckles room), and maximum heat attack (speedblitz) give him the advantage. Not to mention his inferno (causing minature volcano),his limited geokinesis (causes rocks to fall from the sky), and master emerald empowerment (nuff said), super fowhich will be the end of shadow :-P. Super forms super knuckles=super shadow, plus there’s hyper knuckles. If shadow uses inhibitors, knuckles uses master emerald empowerment.

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- dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 9:24 pm said:
  
  Whoa, I’m not sure that the chant could negate the chaos energy from Shadow. Plus when he is holding the chaos emerald he has access to even more chaos energy. Also Knuckles would have to say the chant and Shadow won’t give him enough time for that. He could defeat Knuckles in an instant via speedblitz. Those attacks sound good, but none of them are nearly fast enough to hit someone like Shadow. I’d definitely say that Super Shadow is better than Super Knuckles thanks to the speed advantage. Shadow’s just too powerful with Chaos Control
  
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  - jman on March 30, 2013 at 9:32 pm said:
    
    Actually, the chant would work. It drains all of the power from the chaos emeralds (evidence sonic adventure 2 battle) aka shadows source of energy. His power flash would stop shadow and then it’s chant time. His attacks are versatile and if you look at the list again, they could help knux in diff. ways. As for super shadow being faster, i think it’s safe to say super knux is in his ball park in speed and way outclasses him in power and durability. Aslo hyper knuckles is the final trump card. How’s he going to do chaos control with no chaos energy.
  - dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 9:35 pm said:
    
    When did he use the chant? The Chaos Emeralds defeated the Master Emerald in Sonic DX after all. Shadow’s Chaos Control should be able to override the Power Flash and I wouldn’t say that Knuckles is even close to being in the same ballpark as Shadow. Super Shadow increases his speed by 1000X times. Super Knuckles would be lucky to be as fast as normal Shadow. Shadow takes this with raw speed and hand to hand
  - jman on March 30, 2013 at 9:43 pm said:
    
    The chant was in sab2 bro, and when did the chaos emeralds beat the M.E., the master emerald is more powerful that the chaos emeralds bro. Shadow couldn’t override it if he’s already frozen and as far as knuc not being close to shadow in spees i would refer you to the intro of team sonic on sonic heroes and sonic rivals one and two. He is in their ballpark. Don’t be silly, it increases knuxs by the same amount and shadow is inferior to knux in h2h. Knix is a martial artisy, shadow is not.
  - dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 9:48 pm said:
    
    In what scene did a chant drain the chaos emeralds of their power? I don’t think it could do that. In DX Knuckles put the chaos emeralds on the shrine with the ME which caused the whole place to go down. If they’re going by time stop speed, then Shadow would do Chaos Control first and end the match in an instant. It doesn’t increase Knuckles speed by the same amount either btw. Shadow gets a 1000X speed increase and Knuckles gets a 1000X Power increase. If Knuckles speed were to increase as much as Sonic or Shadow their would be no point. He only gets a drastic power boost. Some speed like how Shadow gets some power, but not nearly as much. This is why the speed gap is so drastic for Knuckles and Shadow. Shadow could land a thousand blows before Knuckles lands even 1. He’s only keeping up because Sonic is slowing down. At top speed he’s nowhere close to Hedgehog speed
  - jman on March 30, 2013 at 10:00 pm said:
    
    Bro look it up, it can and it did, knuckles even stated it. Just because the island fell doesn’t mean it overpowered it, was it actually stated? Shadow underestimates knux, so he wouldn’t pull out the big gun or chaos control),whereas knux would and if knuckles wanted to, he could end it, but he wouldn’t. Super knux gets an increas all over the board, as does everyone else :-, look it up if you don’t believe me. Sonic plays with knux, but then again he plays with everyone, shadow never stated tht he was joking when racing knux so he’s not speedblitzing anyone, he was around their speed in s.r. so that’s what I’m going by, knux’s other abilities make this an over kill. Plus hyper knux ends it.
  - dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 10:03 pm said:
    
    Well in which scene did he say or do the chant? The emeralds could not last together they said and I’d say that the Chaos Emeralds were winning. They never break at least. Both characters are bloodlusted so they’re going all out from the beginning. So Chaos Control and then a quick speedblitz should end the match. It’s like Super Saiyan in that it increases all abilities, but extra speed for Shadow and extra power for Knuckles. Speedwise they aren’t even close. Game mechanics aren’t as valid as actual feats and facts. Super Shadow ends this round with a Chaos Control or speedblitz
  - jman on March 30, 2013 at 10:12 pm said:
    
    The scene where biolizard teleports to the front of the ship. That could mean that there was too much gatheted chaos energy, it’s not concrete proof. They’ve never been in a position to break. Knux could use power flash and end it. Both get the same amount all around and if you mean both have their specialties then yes, shadow outspeeds knux, but knux can react to it.knux has maximum heat attack so that puts shadow at risk for a speed blitz. Knux won’t go down with one speedblitz and his durability is way more than you give it credit for. Hyper knuckles is siper knux on steroids so he will end super shadow not the mention he has access to chaos energy as well.
  - dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 10:16 pm said:
    
    Alright, I’ll look into that scene later. Both get the same all around, but then Shadow gets an additional 1000X Speed while Knuckles gets 1000X power. So Shadow is at least 1000X faster than Knuckles, but probably much more. There’s no way that Knuckles could react to such speed so one speedblitz should be enough to take him down. That’s hundreds/thousands of blows in an instant. Knuckles wouldn’t stand a chance
jman on March 30, 2013 at 10:16 pm said:

Gtg ttyl.

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- dreager1 on March 30, 2013 at 10:17 pm said:
  
  See ya later
  
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  - jman on March 30, 2013 at 11:00 pm said:
    
    Back bro. True, and knux get a 1000X spped boost as well, so he’s not 1000X as fast, knux is not a sitting duck. He’s not on par with shadow in any way and is very muched outclassed there, but knux is not completely speedblitz either. He won’t be landing 100 blows, much less 1000 in a second.
  - dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 8:41 am said:
    
    No, Knuckles doesn’t get such a drastic speed boost. He’s leagues behind Shadow and Sonic in terms of speed. Shadow’s much superior in hand to hand skills and speed. Knuckles is more durable, but that’s hardly enough to defeat Shadow. Shadow just uses his Chaos Control, Chaos Blast, or Speedblitz to end the fight. Like how he beat Knuckles in a couple of seconds in the anime
  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 9:16 am said:
    
    No, knux gets a 1000x speed boost as well, it ids a super form after all. And he can hang with shadow, so he’s not leagues behind. As far as h2h goes, knux wins he has taken on shade’s clan and has defeated an army of robots. He is a martial artist, so he beats shadow there. Sonic X, really? That show was garbage and that battle was not good at all. He can’t use chaos energy because of knux’s chant. So no chaos control, chaos snap, chaoswarp, etc.
  - dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 1:09 pm said:
    
    No, he doesn’t get a 1000X speed boost. Or if he does, then Shadow gets a 10000X speed boost. Shadow’s gives him much more speed than Knuckles does. Like how Knuckles gets more power. Speedwise it’s like comparing the Flash to Batman, but much worse. Knuckles wouldn’t even be able to see Shadow and would lost in an instant. He can’t hope to react to such power. Even if the chant does work, Shadow would have beaten him before he could use it, but I still have my doubts about the chant
  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 4:51 pm said:
    
    False, superform increases all abilities by 1000x so shadow gets a boost in speed and power, as does knux, how do you think super sonic is so strong. If he can keep up with sonic and shadow in s.r. and has dodged sonic’s attacks, he won’t get speedblitzed any time soon. Plus knux’s maximum heat attack gives him a speed boost. The chant will work, it’s been shown to so bye bye chaos powers (chaos rift is powerful, too bad he won’t be able to use it). And comparing knux(subsonic-sonic)/shadow(supersonic speed) to batman(peakhuman)/flash(10x speed of light), its not even close. I am busy, tty in a minute.
  - dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 4:56 pm said:
    
    So, then where do you get that info from? In the comic I read they only talked about Knuckles getting the 1000X strength, not speed. I don’t think Knuckles gets an equal boost to Shadow in speed. Even if they both get the same multiplier with the super form, Shadow is naturally faster so it wouldn’t chance a thing. Knuckles keeping up with Sonic and Shadow in Sonic Rivals is gameplay mechanics, like how King Caesar can go up against Destoroyah in the Godzilla game and how Mario can outrun Sonic in the olympics. On the really off chance that the chant would work, it won’t matter. Shadow would have already used Chaos Control to stop him in his tracks or just speedblitz him. Sonic and Shadow are faster than light in base form, so if Knuckles is only supersonic (not even hypersonic) he’s definitely getting massively speedblitzed. I think the difference in speed is incredibly drastic so one speedblitz should end this.
  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 5:28 pm said:
    
    Comics aren’t cannon, so we don’t use them. And go to sonic wiki, super knuckles to be specific and it says all of his attributes are increased. So it will be like shads speed x1000 against knux speed x1000 so he’s not getting hit 1000times in a second. If the creators used it (it being sonic rivals) as proof of speed for tails (look it up) and silver, then i can use it for knux. Wrong, shadow is not lightspeed, heck sonic isn’t light speed (as stated in sonic generations) so shadow sure isn’t, he is hyper sonic at best in base form, where did you hear that?
  - dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 8:32 pm said:
    
    Actually this is composite so they work for all intents and purposes as canon as well. Also I did go to the wiki and I was right. It says that he got an increase in all areas, but specifically in strength, while Shadow gets specifically more speed. So, the speed gap gets infinitely greater and Knuckles can’t hope to match his speed. Sonic Rivals is good, but Knuckles can’t hope to match Shadow in speed. The difference is lightyears apart. Sonic is lightspeed as seen in Sonic Rush Adventure and likewise Shadow is
jman on March 31, 2013 at 9:22 am said:

^chaos rift.

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- dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 1:09 pm said:
  
  Chaos Rift could end this in one shot
  
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jman on March 31, 2013 at 9:50 am said:

At church ttyl.

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- dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 1:10 pm said:
  
  See ya later
  
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jman on March 31, 2013 at 6:57 pm said:

Sonic dx said sonic ran at hypersonic speeds (3,000- 7000 and something), so at best shad can run at hypersonic speeds. There have been occasions where sonic has been stated to travel at light speeds (light speed attack: sonic adventure battle 2 and light speed ring dash: also sab2) but both are diff from his running speed. We are to assume that shad is hypersonic, not lightspeed.

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- dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 8:33 pm said:
  
  Where in Sonic DX did they say that? Either way that was before Sonic Rush Adventure so I guess we can assume that he got faster. Both of them are definitely lightspeed
  
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  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 8:47 pm said:
    
    Composite!?, well now knux really owns :-D. I already said that, i said it helps his already pimpressive speed, but does the same to all areas, so he’s not getting 1000 hit per second. Knux gets a 1000x spees boost so it’s not infinetely greater, at all. It never stated he was lightspeed in the sonic wilki, so it’s not true, plus i don’t remember that being stated in sonic rush. It was stated in the manual and as far as him being light speed, he’s not. It’s never been stated so he’s not, and shadow certainly is not.
  - dreager1 on March 31, 2013 at 9:02 pm said:
    
    You’re misunderstanding the multiplier. They each get a boost of the same amount in each area. After that, Knuckles gets even more power and Shadow gets even more power. So, Knuckles is still a couple leagues away in speed. In Sonic Rush Adventure after S ranking a mission they tell Sonic that at this rate he will reach light speed and he replies that lightspeed is slow for him. Shadow’s pretty much as fast so he’s FTL. Still, Shadow speedblitzes for the win with the massive speed difference
  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 9:53 pm said:
    
    No
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 8:58 am said:
    
    Yes 😎
  - jman on March 31, 2013 at 10:00 pm said:
    
    No, you misunderstood what i said, i said that in each category they get a boost of 1000 so knuckles gets a boost of 1000 in speed and so does shadow. Shadow is just faster, so it is more notable, as is knuckles in strength. Knux can react to sonic so he’s not helpless and m.h.a. boost him up considerably. He said that, but that could be interpreted diff ways, which means it is not a solid arguement. Knux wins via control of the M.A (as it can negate the power of chaos emeralds aka shadows source of chaos energy) and powerflash.
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 9:02 am said:
    
    Where are you getting the 1000X? Let me put it this way
    
    Base Stats
    
    Shadow
    Speed 10
    Strength 5
    Defense 5
    
    Knuckles
    
    Speed 3
    Strength 10
    Defense 8
    
    After Super form amps up their power in each category (Gonna do 10X instead of 1000X to make the match easier and since I’m not sure about the 1000X in every category) New stats are
    
    Shadow
    Speed 100
    Strength 50
    Defense 50
    
    Knuckles
    Speed 30
    Strength 100
    Defense 80
    
    Then Shadow gets the 100X speed and Knuckles gets the 100X power, bringing the total to
    
    Shadow
    Speed 10,000
    Strength 50
    Defense 50
    
    Knuckles
    Speed 30
    Strength 10,000
    Defense 80
    
    That seems to be how the multipliers work. If they got the same boost in speed that woudn’t make any sense since Knuckles is a power character and Shadow’s a speed character. He is made to be faster. How can Sonic saying he’s lightspeed be interpreted in another way? He’s faster than light. Knuckles can’t react to Sonic, that’s just plot hax. Sonic’s much too fast for him. Shadow wins this with massive speed blitz or a Chaos Control/Chaos Spear
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 6:28 pm said:
    
    Dude, your multiplier is off. You multiply all stats by 1000 anthen then you’re done, that’s what it says in the wiki. Also sonoc is not light speed, in ball form yes, but not on foot. Knux can react to sonic, or he would have been wiped across the floor a long time ago. Master emerald takes chaos emeralds power away (via powerflash) amd then it’s game.
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 8:18 pm said:
    
    That’s not what the wiki says. Maybe you’re using another wiki. Link the article where it says that. On the Super Knuckles page it even says that while all of his abilities have been enhanced, his strength has been especially enhanced. Sonic is lightspeed on foot, he’s said so in the Sonic Rush Adventure game. Knuckles can’t compete with Sonic, Sonic’s far too fast. It’s like how Batman reacts to Superman…he just does. Shadow uses Chaos Control before Knuckles can use Power Flash or just wins with a massive speedblitz
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 8:28 pm said:
    
    Ok, here it is, http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Knuckles. Thats the site you go by. Now batman weaving superman, are you joking? Speedblitz is countered by maximum heat attack, and powerflash is too much for him. Sonic is not lightspeed, you can go to the wiki and look that up too. Unless he’s shown it, he can’t do it.
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 8:33 pm said:
    
    Here’s what they say
    
    “All his physical attributes has as well be enhanced in this form: His strength has been increased greatly, allowing him to plow through any obstacles and his movements has been enhanced as well, vastly increasing his speed, jumping, gliding, climbing, etc”
    
    Notice the emphasis on his strength. On Sonic’s they make an emphasis on speed. It’s because those stats are enhanced more than the others, so Knuckles doesn’t get the same speed increase as Shadow. The Maximum Heat Attack isn’t nearly fast enough to stop the speedblitz and the Chaos Control would negate the Power Flash. Sonic is definitely lightspeed
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 8:41 pm said:
    
    Knux already has superior strength, that’s why it’s noted. He gets the same 1000 percent boost that he does with speed, same with shadow. Your model gave him waaay yo much power. Maximum heat attack is comparable to light speed attack so yeah it’s fast enough and powerflash, please. Ttyl.
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 8:47 pm said:
    
    I don’t know about it, and even if he got a boost, why the 1000? Either way that would still leave Shadow with far superior speed and chaos ability. Maximum Heat Attack is nowhere near fast enough for this job. Knuckles can’t compete with Shadow in speed, despite how fast his attacks may be. Chaos Control>Power Flash. Shadow speedblitzes for the win. See ya later
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 10:06 pm said:
    
    He may speed super knux, but not hyper knux. A speedblitz wouldn’t work as knux is way too durable. Maximum would definetely give him a speed boost and while it is not as fast as shadow (not even close) it will help him dodge. The 1000 is what all super forms multiply their natural abilities by. Chaos control = power flash, and knux can negate c.e.via m.e.
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 10:16 pm said:
    
    Hyper Knuckles still isn’t as fast as Super Shadow. He’s durable, but that won’t stop a speedblitz. Knuckles can’t withstand such power for long so Shadow just needs his speed to win. Chaos Control>Power Flash plus Shadow can win in an instant with Chaos Spear. Shadow’s just far too fast to be defeated
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 10:23 pm said:
    
    No, hyper knuckles is super knuckles amplified, so he’s at least as fast ,if not faster, than shadow, so no speedblitz for shadow. Powerflash could tie chaos control. Also, thunder arrow is way faster than chaos control so i think knux’s projectile is superior. And I’m not even using archie knux yet ;-).
  - dreager1 on April 1, 2013 at 10:32 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s definitely a lot faster than Hyper Knuckles. Hyper Knuckles is tough, but not in the same league speedwise. Chaos Control is superior to Power Flash and Chaos Spear is better than Thunder Arrow. Shadow wins via speedblitz…also without Archie Shadow 😎
  - jman on April 1, 2013 at 10:40 pm said:
    
    Nope, hyper forms are on another level when it comes to, well everything. His speed would at least be equal yo his super form, and i mean at least. Chaos control is not nesec. more powerful, and even if it is, he’s hyper knuckles, i don’t think super shadow can hurt him. Plus it’s all on who says it first, if shadow say chaos control he wins, if knux says power flash, he wins, so there’s no way to really say. Thunder arrows are much faster and would match chaos spear (and probably chaos lance) after all, they’re both chaos energy. And that’s without archie. I’ll save that for later.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 8:22 am said:
    
    I don’t think so. First of all, normal Shadow is incredibly faster than Knuckles…with his inhibitors on. Once he takes them off, then the gap in speed gets exponentially greater. Super Shadow is still faster than Hyper Knuckles. Shadow would definitely be able to say it first and he doesn’t have to say it because he could just speedblitz Knuckles and end the match before he’s able to say it. Thanks to Shadow’s speed, the Chaos Spear would win because he could speed to any angle and fire it. Knuckles wouldn’t be able to counter it
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 8:31 am said:
    
    Hyper knux is faster than s.s., he’s just on another level bro. Shadow is much faster, but maximum heat attack will evwn the odds. If he takes his inhibitors off, knux just uses master emerald for empowerment. Thunder arrow can hit you no matter where you are and knux durability will last long enough to say the chant. Also we don’t know if he’ll say it faster or not.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 8:36 am said:
    
    Hyper Knuckles is faster than Super Knuckles, I’ll give you that. But Super Shadow with his inhibitors off is a monster! I haven’t even mentioned Dark Shadow or Hero Shadow yet. Let’s just say that they’re pretty out there! Maximum Heat Attack won’t be able to even the odds because attack speed<total speed. Shadow would just dodge and kepe on speedblitzing. Shadow would dodge the Thunder Arrow. It's hard to say a chant when you're being pounded. He'd never get to finish off the sentence. Plus Shadow has the Chaos Emeralds
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 8:54 am said:
    
    True, super knuxc.e.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 8:55 am said:
    
    Definitely a lot of strong Sonic characters out there!
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 8:59 am said:
    
    Taking test tty at 12:00.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 9:00 am said:
    
    Ok, see ya later
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm said:
    
    True shadow with his inhibs off is truly a beast (ex. sonic 2006), but it wouldn’t be enough. Hero/dark shadow is cool but he’s not ready for hyper knux, plus if shad is super, i don’t think hero/dark would matter as it is more of a pre super form. Ok, I’ll concede to the whole attack speed<total speed, however it won't matter as knux has good reflexes as well and with his durability, he'll hold out. Knux can dodge chaos spear. You're right it is hard to talk while receiving punches, so knux can use knuckles slam (creating a fire barrier around him, it's a few feet wide) and inferno (creates minature volcanic eruption) to give him the time to say it, and then it's bye bye chaos powers and soon bye bye shadow.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 4:15 pm said:
    
    Knuckles reflexes still aren’t fast enough and he may hold out a couple hundred hits, but those would all happen in an instant. Knuckles probably wouldn’t have time to slam the ground and make a barrier. Even if he did, Shadow would run around it and cause the air to dissipate the flame barrier and then keep whaling on Knuckles. Knuckles massive speed disadvantage is what prevents him from taking the win
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 6:40 pm said:
    
    Couple of 100 hits? Don’t overestimate him, he’s not that fast. Also he does it pretty fast and shadow wouldn’t know what he was doing (also knux can sense chaos energy so if shad is preparing to do an attack, he would sense the chaos energy building). Did you forget knux could dig, and his volcanic dunk would def. give hum the space he needs.
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 7:13 pm said:
    
    Dude, a couple of hundred hits at least. It’s probably way above that. After all Speed Demon can land dozens of hits in an instant and he’s hardly Shadow level. Knuckles can sense the energy building up, but it happens in a fraction of an instant so he won’t be able to dodge. He can dig…but not fast enough. Shadow would drag him back out of the hole and keep on speedblitzing. Knuckles just won’t be able to get around the speedblitz.
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 7:22 pm said:
    
    Heh, that’s funny. Maybe using chaos control a hundred hit on knuckles is possible, but other than that no. Knux has fought sonic (who is faster than shadow) and is a master martial artist, so he wouldn’t get speedblitzed. Fraction of an instant, is plenty of time for knux and he could dig fast enough. He wouldn’t be able to stop a speedblitz though he has been known to fight sonic and other good fighters (ex nocturus clan), is a martial artist, has impressive speed in his own right, and has a barrier and volcanic eruption going for him?
  - dreager1 on April 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm said:
    
    I think he could with or without Chaos Control, but since he has Chaos Control, he may as well. Those would help Knuckles defeat most opponents and stop most speedblitzes, but he’s up against the Ultimate Life Form. Shadow’s speed is just far too intense and Knuckles wouldn’t be able to keep up with him. Shadow’s just too powerful and fast in the end. His Chaos abilities are just overkill
  - jman on April 2, 2013 at 8:57 pm said:
    
    He couldn’t, knux skills are to good. And i wouldn’t bring up chaos control as it would only lead to a chaos control vs powerflash debate, which would never be solved. He has speed, but knux has defense, power, h2h advantages, and most of all the master emerald. The chaos abilities are his only life saver, but with the m.e., he wouldn’t be able to acess them. Knux won’t even need his super form.
  - dreager1 on April 3, 2013 at 12:13 pm said:
    
    Chaos Control is definitely better than Chaos Control, but either way time control is iffy on the blog at best. I’d give Shadow the hand to hand advantage and his speed would overwhelm the defense and power that Knuckles has. The Master Emerald couldn’t stop the Chaos Emeralds and Shadow would win before Knuckles could try using those
  - jman on April 3, 2013 at 1:23 am said:
    
    Hey man, looks like this will be my last post. I’m having family trouble and have been told to leave this site (not because of you though, because of their ignorance on videogames), so like the respectable person i am, i will obey. It was fun taking about the similarites we had in games and having the debates about them, so hopefully i will get the opportunity to do it again. May god keep and bless you throughout your faithwalk and may you always keep him first. Ttyl dude ;-).
  - dreager1 on April 3, 2013 at 12:16 pm said:
    
    Yeah, we definitely had a blast. Likewise man and have a great life! If you’re ever able to come back in a few decades or years don’t worry, the blog will still be here so you’ll have a lot of new posts to look at. See ya around 🙂
jman on May 16, 2013 at 7:03 pm said:

Yeah, i think the powerflash vs chaos control is iffy too, lets leave that out. Now i think knux is superior in h2h (as he is a martial artist and we know his background in fighting) and though he has speed, knux has a high defense (knuckle slam and digging) and that chant will end shadow.

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- dreager1 on May 16, 2013 at 8:32 pm said:
  
  Well, Knuckles may have better hand to hand skills, but even if he does (And I’m not certain) Shadow’s speed advantage will negate that and turn a close combat match into Shadow’s advantage. The defense gets negates by Shadow’s impressive attack power. As for the chant, he wouldn’t have time to use it, since Shadow would be hitting him at high speeds. Of course the chant probably wouldn’t really be able to stop his chaos abilities
  
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  - jman on May 16, 2013 at 8:45 pm said:
    
    True, his speed is problematic, but he can ‘t speedblitz what he can’t touch. The speed advantage is negated by the defenses (knux slam, fire barrier, will keep him at bay until the chant is finished or volcanoc eruption will) and shad cant do anything about it. The chant has been proven to stop the chaos emeralds, so shadow loses that. And then it’s over.
  - dreager1 on May 16, 2013 at 8:52 pm said:
    
    Knuckles wouldn’t have time to use the Fire Barrier and while he’s starting his slam, Shadow will have already hit him many times. The chant is powerful, but once someone is in control of the chaos energies, it’s a whole other ballgame. Knuckles won’t have time to use his chants or abilities anyway though, thanks to Shadow’s abilities
  - jman on May 16, 2013 at 9:01 pm said:
    
    Ummm, knux is not a slow poke and if he can dodge attacks from sonic, he can dodge shadow long enough to do a simple gesture, not to mention his superior durability. And chaos energy was being used, he just shut it off, simple as that. He could do the same with shadow. ME>chaos emeralds and knux has the master emerald :-D.
  - dreager1 on May 16, 2013 at 9:06 pm said:
    
    He’s not a slowpoke, but the difference in speed is extremely drastic so the same effect would happen. He can’t keep up with Sonic, he only does because Sonic tends to not take the fight very seriously. He can make the gesture, but Shadow would just keep on punching him around while his abilities finish loading up. Not even his durability could keep him around for very long.
    
    I don’t think he could shut off that level of power. Shadow’s far too powerful and he is the Ultimate Life Form after all 🙂
  - jman on May 16, 2013 at 9:15 pm said:
    
    Sonic jokes with everyone, so i wouldn’t quite say that. He’s only gotten serious once, and that was with emerl. Knux has pretty good reflexes and with his durability, he’ll put up his eruption or knux slam, which will give him time for the barrier. Well that is cool and all but it shuts of the chaos emeralds which are not only more powerful than shadow, but his source of energy. How can you tap into something that has been shut off ;-).
  - dreager1 on May 16, 2013 at 9:22 pm said:
    
    Knuckles has good reflexes, but it wouldn’t be enough. His mind would tell him to block, but his body wouldn’t be fast enough to keep up. I don’t think that the chant would be capable of completely shutting down the Chaos Energies. That’s a feat that is just far too difficult for a chant. Shadow can channel just about any kind of chaos power. Let’s not forget that he can also teleport
  - jman on May 16, 2013 at 9:34 pm said:
    
    Idk, he can combat sonic, so he must be able to keep up. Not saying he would weave every attack, but coupled with his durability, he’ll get to use his space giving moves. The M.E. has been shown to completely able to shut them down, point blank. The wili states it. And he can sense chaos energy so he could evade before he attacked (sab2).
  - dreager1 on May 16, 2013 at 9:39 pm said:
    
    Sonic’s really letting them keep up. Knuckles can’t compete with Sonic/Shadow in hand to hand combat. I don’t think he’d last long enough to use his moves, but even if he did it wouldn’t be enough to stop Shadow. His heat abilities would be negated by Shadow’s speed which would put out the fires. The Master Emerald is tough, but Shadow would shatter it as soon as the fight started. He may sense the energy, but he wouldn’t be fast enough to dodge the attack
  - jman on May 16, 2013 at 9:48 pm said:
    
    True, sonic lets him keep up, but he still plays with shadow. He may try harder with shad than with knuc, but in the end he’s joking with both. Knux has durability beyond shadow can imagine and shadow isn’t powerful enough to end it in 5 secs, which is the time it’ll take knux to do it, less really. He’s taken worse and shad’s blows will hurt, but not be that much of a hinderance. How can he put out a fire or an eruption? Even if he did put out the fire the heat is coming from knux, so he can’t hit him, but knux will be done by then anyway. Knux wouldn’t have the M.E. big and exposed so it would be small, he can do that ya know ;-). And with maximum heat attack he could.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 7:28 am said:
    
    Sonic can’t afford to hold back against Shadow, since they both have around equal speed and Shadow is far stronger. He did take Sonic out pretty easily in the intro to his game. Sonic just couldn’t keep up with him. Knuckles is durable, but he couldn’t take that much punishment. It’s why Shadow defeated him pretty easily in the show. Shadow’s overwhelming power negates the durability. Shadow doesn’t have too get that close to the heat and he’ll just defeat Knuckles with a chaos spear. If he slices Knuckles with it, I don’t think he’ll be getting back up. The Master Emerald would be destroyed, because it’s not like Knuckles has anywhere to hide it. (Even if he has his wild west hat Shadow would find it
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 7:55 am said:
    
    Itt is well known that sonic hold back against him and only Really let loose against super emerl. Shadow can reach supersonis speeds, sonic can reach hypersonic speed. And sonic passed out from exhaustion on the game, shadow didn’t do anything. The show is non-canon and had shadow beat sonic 😀 so…. and durability gets him the time he needs. Shadow’s overwhelming power, you mean the same power that knux could dodge effortlessly? Plus he took on an army of shade’s people, i doubt he’d be ended that fast. And that includes chaos spear. How can shadow hit something the size of a pebble in the hand of knux the echidna, hes not that fast. Only sonic or metal sonic could do that.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 12:21 pm said:
    
    Shadow was holding a gun, so I’m pretty sure that he took Sonic out for good in that one. Shadow is stronger than Super Emerl and Sonic definitely wasn’t holding back when they fought. Shadow did defeat Sonic in the show which shows how skilled and powerful he is. It’s hard for Sonic to compete with Shadow. Knuckles isn’t able to dodge his overwhelming power and his durability isn’t high enough. Shadow just stabs him with the Chaos Spear and the match is as good as over
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 3:22 pm said:
    
    No, i dont think he did, as sonic would have died. And shadow is no where near as powerful as super emerl, and i mean no where near. And he does play with shadow, shadow isn’t even hyperspeed material so you know he’s playing. Knux’s durability is more than enough (taking on armys of robots and nocturnos clan) and he can sense chaos energy so he can dodge it beforehand. The then (after getting hit a few times) can use his two space gaining moves and say the chant. And then it’s bye bye chaos powers!
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 5:38 pm said:
    
    Sonic did die. It was the intro so it didn’t affect the game later on, but I’m pretty sure that Shadow took him down. Shadow is basically as fast as Sonic, so I’d say he’s easily faster than light, much less hypersonic. Even if he senses the chaos energy, he won’t be able to dodge the attack because it’s just too fast. His durability isn’t too bad, but in the end it just won’t be enough to take down someone as powerful as Shadow. Shadow’s too fast and too powerful
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 6:15 pm said:
    
    Ok, he didn’t die he passed out. Why would they have him die on the intro, which it is like the summary of the game. Also sonic barley moves at the speed of light and shadow said himself in sonic and the dark brotherhood he is not faster than shadow, heck he barely moves at supersonic speed. Where did you hear that? And senseing it beforehand + maximum heat attack = shadow misses. Durability wise, knux is more than enough (taking on an army of robots and when he took on the Nocturnus clan) to withstand shadows assault for hours, much less a few seconds, which is the time the chant will take, which will be given to him vis eruption or knuckle slam. Then shadow is helpless.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 6:23 pm said:
    
    They were about even in speed in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. Shadow’s slightly slower, but they’re just about even. Knuckles can sense, but it won’t help because Shadow will already be hitting him. He couldn’t withstand Shadow’s assault for hours. Minutes at the very most. Shadow’s just too fast and too powerful. His Chaos abilities are just overkill and let’s not forget about his Super Shadow form
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 7:05 pm said:
    
    It’s been stated more recently that he is much slower than sonic. Ex: sonic and the dark brotherhood, stated it outright, sonic rivals, stated in manual and sonic battle ulitmate emerl battle, nuff said. He is fast, but not that fast, so he won’t be speedblitzed. He has the durability and has proven it, as i stated before. He will dodge the attack (after taking some hits at first), put up defense, ( volcanic eruption and knuckle slam) say chant, abd beat shadow.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 7:49 pm said:
    
    Remember, this is composite, so that won’t really hurt him. Shadow is extremely fast and I don’t think that Knuckles could stop the speedblitz. He has some good durability, but that won’t be enough to stop someone at Shadow’s level. Shadow is the Ultimate Life Form after all. He won’t be able to dodge any of the attacks and a Chaos Spear could shorten this match drastically. He won’t have time for his chant or any of his other abilities
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 8:12 pm said:
    
    I understand, but composite or not he is not faster than supersonic speeds, so he’s not lightspeed and hasn’t been stated to go lightspeeds. Now knux has maximum heat attack (which is comparable to light speed dash, making him faster than hyper speeds when doing this) and plus he can sense shadow before he warps so shad’s not speedblitzing anyone. Plus how is shad going to get past his durability, as chaos spear can be dodged and his fist aren’t nearly enough (being stated to take as much as he can dish out, which is tons of pain!) i don’t see shadow ending this fast, or at least before he can put up his trustly barriers. Won’t be able to dodge, please bro, he has high reflexes abd agility and can put up the barriers. Shadow isn’t that fast.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 8:16 pm said:
    
    Well, he’s about as fast as Sonic in Adventure 2 Battle and that was at the peak of Sonic’s speed. I’d calc him at around lightspeed. Knuckles can sense where Shadow will teleport, but he still won’t be able to move fast enough to dodge. Shadow’s just way too fast and Knuckles couldn’t dodge his Chaos Spears. Shadow’s punches would definitely deal some incredible damae and he’s also got some energy guns at his disposal.
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 8:29 pm said:
    
    Sa2 was not sonic’s peak speed bro, no where near it, heck his spees wasn’t even defined there. One minute he’s as fast as the speed of sound, the nect minute it’s the speed of light, wouldn’t use that. If anything sonic battle was. And i gave proof of knux’s speed and how he could dodge the attack, it is plausible and possible. Knux can very much dodge the chaos spear and the punches will sting at best. His guns aren’t going to be lying around and energy will soon be cut off. He’s going to lose.
  - dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 8:32 pm said:
    
    Well, his speed hasn’t really changed. Whether they call it Supersonic or Lightspeed, it’s still Sonic speed. So, since Shadow was keeping up with him, that means he’s basically lightspeed. Knuckles can maybe dodge one chaos spear, but he wouldn’t be able to dodge more than a few. Plus, Shadow’s punches would add up very quickly and Shadow would be dealing some major damage. The fighters get their equipment, so Shadow has access to his laser guns
  - jman on May 17, 2013 at 8:53 pm said:
    
    Sonic speed = faster than the speed of sound, not lightspeed. Only super forms are able to go that fast (also sonic in sonic battle ansd silver in sonic 2006 can reach that Speed, the latter for a short amount of time). And ge may not dodge all the chaos spears, and he will get hit alot and couldn’t take them forever, but he won’t need to as he can say the chant while his defenses are up and stop the chaos power. Then knux finishes it wuth his chaos empowerment or super knux
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 9:00 am said:
    
    I’d definitely put Sonic at some incredible speeds. Let me put it this way, I’d easily say that Sonic is a lot faster than Superman, and Superman’s been calced to go faster than light. Plus in Sonic Rush Adventure he claims that he’s faster than lightspeed. Silver can in Super Silver form, but likewise with the rest of the hedgehogs. Knuckles won’t have time to say the chant because Shadow will be speedblitzing him. How can he say it while he’s being stabbed repeatedly with Chaos Spears? Shadow’s just got too many skills at his disposal. He can even take off his inhibitors if he needs too
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 12:15 pm said:
    
    Ok, sonic is lightspeed when he stops playing and does move at supes speed, but shadow is stated to go only supersonic (twice the speed of sound not, super sonic’s speed). And silver can do teleport dash, in which he travels at light speed for a short distance). That’s the thing, he won’t be Speedblitzed as chaos sensing+ maximum heat attack= dodge the chaos spears and not being speedblitzed. After dodging barriers come into play and 5 seconds later no more chaos powers.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm said:
    
    Exactly, Sonic is LS speed and he was definitely giving it his all when he raced Shadow. That’s why Shadow must also be LS speed. It all makes sense when you think about it. Being lightspeed is a must for the Ultimate Life Form! Silver’s teleport dash is good, but teleporting’s never as good as having the actual speed. So while it’s also lightspeed, it wouldn’t be as good as Shadow or Sonic’s speed. He can’t stop the speedblitzing. He can sense it, but he won’t be able to move quick enough to dodge. Shadow’s just far too fast. His Chaos Spears would hit hard and fast. He wouldn’t have time to use the chant before Shadow took him out
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 3:39 pm said:
    
    No, you misunderstand. Shadow is only twice the speed of sound, and is stated time and time again. Sonic has never went light speed against shadow or even gave it his all. Never has, never will. Only superforms and sonic not playing can go that fast if it wasn’t true then it would be nothing that the superforms are that fast, as they could go LS anyway, so no, he’s not lightspeed. Silver can use that move which can go lightspeed so he is faster than shad. Ugh, yes knux can move that fast, see my previous statements.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm said:
    
    Nah, he was definitely giving it his all. Rewatch the final battle in Adventure 2 Battle between them. He definitely wasn’t holding back. Even when they first met, he went from zero to hero in a split second. The Super forms are massively faster than light, but Sonic and Shadow can already attain lightspeeds. It’s more for Silver, Knuckles, and Tails that it’s a big deal since they weren’t lightspeed before the super forms. With the super form, they may crack that speed. Silver’s attack is good, but going lightspeed for an instant isn’t as good as being naturally lightspeed like Shadow. Knuckles is fast..but not Shadow fast. He’s get speedblitzed
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm said:
    
    I have the game, and i know they weren’t going lightspeed. Now though sonic said “no more games shadow” he may have ceased playing, but he wasn’t going all out. Only emerl has that title. Shadow has only been stated to go supersonic (meaning more than twice the speed of sound) on the wiki, so until you show unrefutable proof of shadow=lightspeed, hes supersonic. Only superforms (and silver’s teleport dash) are that fast. It’s a big deal for anyone but sonic, and no, he doesn’t get speedblitzed. As a matter of fact shadow does via maximum heat attack, which actually goes the speed of light, unlike shadow.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 6:19 pm said:
    
    Sonic was definitely going all out. What makes you think he was holding back? My proof is Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. Shadow speedblitzes in this one since he’s about as fast as Sonic and even more deadly. Knuckles wouldn’t be able to stand up against such speed and power. He wouldn’t have time to use his heat attacks and Shadow would have finished the match quickly
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 6:37 pm said:
    
    Because when he goes all out( ex, when he STATED it in sonic battle against u.emerl) he goes at light speed. It is stated that they battle at light speed. The same can’t be said for shadow, much less assumed bro. When was that stated/ shown in sab2? And shadow is not as fast as sonic, much slower actually. His speed and power wouldn’t overwhelm knux, as his durability and reflexes coupled with his energy sensing is more than enough. He can’t end knux that fast, unless shadow can throw 100s of 100+ tons of blows to someone who is fast enough to tango with someone who held his own against shade. The barriers don’t take morw than a second, and knux is more than fast enough to do it.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 6:41 pm said:
    
    Dude, he was going all out. He said it in Sonic Battle and he was going all out there as well. It doesn’t mean that he was holding back in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. He was fighting to save the planet so he was giving it everything he had. Shadow’s speed is about as fast as Sonic so his speed and power would quickly overwhelm Knuckles. Knuckles just isn’t fast enough to use his techniques and his durability will be negated by the impressive attack power. His reflexes and energy sensing won’t help because he won’t be able to dodge
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 6:50 pm said:
    
    No, all he has = lightspeed, and he clearly wasn’t going lightspeed. Shadow is only supersonic, Sorry. And you are underestimating knux, by a large margin. I’ve stated his speed feats, no need to go there again. Shadow doesn’t have the atrack power needed to end knux that fast, omega yeah but not shadow. If so prove it. Knux reflexes are more than enough and he knowd martial arts.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 7:06 pm said:
    
    He was definitely going lightspeed. Did you see how fast they were moving at the end? Totally LS and he was going all out. Knuckles is fast, but he’s no Shadow. Shadow is extremely strong and his speed would let him end this pretty quickly. Shadow’s gone head to head with Sonic and he has knocked out Knuckles pretty quickly in Sonic X. That’s a good testament to his strength. His martial arts won’t help since he can’t hit Shadow and his reflexes won’t be enough to let him dodge
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 7:25 pm said:
    
    Ugh, ok. 1. He was not going light speed, w.ant to know why. Because it was Never stated and his to speed is a little over 2× the SPEED OF SOUND. And two, he was not giving it his all, because when he does it’s lightspeed. Shadow is not strong enough to put knux down that fast, sorry. Sonic x is not canon and pretty awful as a show. Reflexes are more that enough, plus his maximum heat attack goes speed of light. So technically knux is faster.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 7:45 pm said:
    
    He was going at top speed and since his top speed is lightspeed, then that means that Shadow is about that level of speed. Sonic X isn’t canon, but many parts were accurate. Shadow is strong enough to put Knuckles down for the count and the reflexes and heat attack won’t help because Knuckles won’t have time to use them. Also let’s not forget about Shadow’s motorcycle
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 8:03 pm said:
    
    That’s an assumption, you have to have proof that says he was going that fast or that he was going at top speed. It is stated that shadow is only supersonic, so he’s supersonic. Sonic X has some accurate parts, but some are stupid, like that shadow vs knuckles or cheese and cream hurting emerl. Shadow is not strong enough to take him out fast enough and his reflexes are too much for shad. And he is fast enough to pull them off and has done so. And a motorcycle, really?
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 8:15 pm said:
    
    It’s not an assumption that he was going all out. And since we know that going all out is lightspeed, we know that Shadow is lightspeed. I agree with the Shadow vs Knuckles fight. That’s kind of how I picture the fight to go down, or pretty similarly. Shadow’s far too fast and his strength is enough to take care of Knuckles. I don’t think that Knuckles will be able to last against such a powerful opponent. As for the motorcycle…well, his air board is extremely fast. Even faster than Sonic if the gameplay is to be believed. But yeah, he probably wouldn’t use those things. The alien guns will do
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 8:31 pm said:
    
    Show me where it says that he was going all out and show me where it says he was going light speed. I have provided evidence for my argument, your turn. And i didn’t picture it like that at all, knux was far too slow. Knux should have won. Also if armies and the Nocturnus clan (before shade came in) couldn’t fell knux, shadow sure can’t. Shadow is overhyped and not that powerful, at least not to knux. And they only go like 300, too slow for knux he’d be better off on foot. Knux dodges gun fire on a daily basis, shadow is toast.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm said:
    
    Show me where he wasn’t. The proof is that the world was at stake and he wasn’t messing around in that battle. Shadow was pretty much his equal so it was do or die. As for the lightspeed, that was in Sonic Rush Adventure. Knuckles is very slow compared to Shadow. They’re in separate leagues. He’s actually underrated. His speed is legendary and likewise with his power. His Chaos Control would also slow Knuckles down even further. I don’t think Knuckles can take this guy down.
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 8:57 pm said:
    
    Heh, I’ll tell you two reasons why. One it was never stated and two shadow’s(stated and proven on sonic wiki) top speed is supersonic, and sonic’s proven top speed is ftl. Both are proven. Shadow is by no means his equal, this has been proven time and time again. What specifically does it say there, does it mention shadow being light speed? And really, because in sonic rivals one and two he’s around shadow’s level of speed :-,. No, shadow is overrated, it is knux who is underrated. His power is legendary, but so is knux’s. And mentioning chaos control will ead to the chaos control vs power flash so lets leave that out.
  - dreager1 on May 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm said:
    
    It was stated that Sonic’s as fast as light and Shadow was keeping up with him which means that he’s ftl. Sonic Rivals that’s gameplay mechanics. Knuckles can’t keep up with Shadow. Knuckles needs rings to use Power Flash while Shadow can just use Chaos Control so it’s better. Shadow wins this via speedblitz and chaos abilities
  - jman on May 18, 2013 at 10:19 pm said:
    
    He wasn’t going all out and shadow is stated to be strictly supersonic, the end. And so is sab2, both are game mechanics booth raced an there was no definite winner, so They’re the same by your logic. That’s liek saying you need rings for a super transformation :-D, ceteris paribus dude. And knux wins either barrier plus chant, hyper knuckles, or emerald power.
  - dreager1 on May 19, 2013 at 9:12 am said:
    
    Sonic was definitely going out and since Sonic’s lightspeed, so is Shadow. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle wasn’t gameplay mechanics because we saw in cutscenes that they were the same speed. If their was a cutscene showing Knuckles having any sort of super speed, then that would count for him as well. The difference is that Shadow has used his forms without rings in the past, while Knuckles has always needed rings for Power Flash. Chaos Control definitely trumps it. Knuckles won’t have time to use the barrier or chant, and Hyper Knuckles won’t be fast enough to stop Super Shadow. Plus the Chaos Energies>Emerald Power. Shadow’s speed helps him take this round
  - jman on May 19, 2013 at 9:29 am said:
    
    Ok, so you can’t prove it, shadow is supers onic. And sonic wasn’t going lightspeed, so shadow is only speed of sound, poor shadow. Not true, all superforms (with excaliber and maybe darkspine sonin) need rings to start up, and if they can skip the process via chaos emeralds, so can knux via master emerald. Knux will be able to use the barrier, I’ve already stated how, hyper knuckles is faster than shadow and that’s a known fact! Look it up. And how can chaos energy>emerald power when chaos energy comes from the chaos emeralds, and chaos emeralds are the underlings of the the master emerald, which knux is able to utilize. Knux is going to take away his chaos energy, what then :-D?
  - dreager1 on May 19, 2013 at 9:34 am said:
    
    Sonic was definitely going all out and since his top is lightspeed, that means that Shadow’s is around lightspeed as well. They skip it with chaos emeralds, but Knuckles has never shown that he can use the Power Flash without rings. Either way he’s able to with composite and all, but it can’t match up to Chaos Control. Chaos Emeralds are much stronger than the Master Emerald. Knuckles won’t have time for the chant and Super Shadow is much faster than Hyper Knuckles. Shadow wins via speedblitz and raw power
  - jman on May 19, 2013 at 9:48 am said:
    
    Bro, he is not faster than THE SPEED OF LIGHT!! How can he go the speed of light when his PROVEN AND STATED speed was ×2 S.O.S!? Sonic wasn’t serious, the end. Power flash only had one apoearence that’s why and yes it can. Ok, now this is just stupid, how do C.E.>M.E. when the M.E. gives them their power!? Bro, the M.E. can empower of negate them, why would they be more powerful, they get it from the M.E. he has a barrier so he says the chant. And hyper knux is faster than shadow, unless you’re say super shadow is faster than hyper sonic, who makes afterimages and has comparable speed to hyper knuckles.
  - dreager1 on May 19, 2013 at 1:40 pm said:
    
    They hadn’t thought of it at the time. That’s all. Sonic was serious and since his top speed is lightspeed, that means that Shadow’s speed is around lightspeed as well. Power Flash isn’t nearly as powerful as Chaos Control. Shadow can break free of it by struggling (Like in the game) and his chaos control lasts longer. Knuckles is only about 30 seconds while Chaos COntrol is much better. The Master Emerald can’t stop the Chaos Emeralds once they get going. It would shatter or fall in the ocean like in Sonic DX. Hyper Sonic>Super Shadow>Hyper Knuckles. He won’t have time for any chants or techniques and Shadow would just be speedblitzing him all day
  - jman on May 19, 2013 at 4:09 pm said:
    
    No, because if they considered it in sonic battle and they said that the same should have been stated there. Sonic wasn’t giving his all and wasn’t going lightspeed. You can’t break powerflah while going and you lose connection to the character while it happens. If he’s walking he will slowly stop, so it’s about the same as chaos control, length is a game mechanic. Really, it’s the M.E. that gives them the power to go, that’s like saying cyttorak cant stop juggernaut once he moves :-D. The m.e gives the power to go, so.yes it can negate them, ex bio lizard from sab2. Did you really just say a hyper loses to a super? Hyper knux moves as fast as hypersonic who is superior to shad (got to hyper knux sonic wiki and hyper sonic sonic wiki) so that’s false. And yes he can, maximum heat atttack, dodging, extra chaos perception and durability, shadow isn’t strong enough. If so give examples.
  - dreager1 on May 19, 2013 at 4:23 pm said:
    
    No, they thought of it in Sonic Battle and that’s why they had them at Supersonic back in Adventure 2 Battle. But since we know that Sonic’s actually lightspeed in the games, then Shadow is also about that level of speed. Chaos Control is stronger than Power Flash. Knuckles doesn’t have as much experience with the time abilities as Shadow. The Chaos Emeralds are superior to the Master Emerald. Why do you think nobody ever uses the Master Emerald to save the world? It’s because the Chaos Emeralds have the necessary power. I don’t think the Master Emerald can stop the Chaos Emeralds once Shadow has the power. It depends on the character. Sonic and Shadow are naturally faster than Knuckles, so not even his Hyper form can stop them. Knuckles isn’t fast enough to use any of his abilities and would be getting speedblitzed by Shadow. Shadow’s been shown to hurt Knuckles and Sonic with his punches so he’s definitely strong enough to do some damage. He can just stab Knuckles with the Chaos Spear and end the match
  - jman on May 20, 2013 at 7:59 am said:
    
    Right, we know sonic is lightspeed, so that means he was holding back, since again, shadow’s top speed is supersonic. Both are equal as both are weilded by two people with awesome chaos powers. And really, the master Emerald give tbe C.E. their power, so what sense does that make. Go to M.E. sonic wiki, because that is ridiculous. They get chaos emeralds because knux would never let them use M.E. of course. Really, with heat attack he speedblitzes(didn’t wanna do it but you forced my hand) and hyper knux is faste thatn super shadow, I’ve given you site, liable sites, use them. And really, naturally faser has nothing to do with it. If that’s the case i guess sonic>super tails in speed :-,. No he hasn’t hurt knux, when and knux is fast enough to evade, i have proven this as well. And how, as knux easily dodges bullets. He is waaay too powerful for shad.
  - dreager1 on May 20, 2013 at 12:07 pm said:
    
    He wasn’t holding back. That’s like saying that Superman must’ve been holding back against Mongul, because Mongul put up a better fight than Darkseid. If they wanted to use the Master Emerald, Knuckles wouldn’t have a choice, but to give it to them since they’d just overwhelm him. They opt for the Chaos Emeralds because they’re better. Hyper Knuckles isn’t faster than Super Shadow. Have you read the debates on Knuckles vs Shadow? Basically Hyper Knuckles isn’t good and he’d be better off with Super Knuckles for the most part. Plus, Sonic probably is faster than Super Tails. Shadow has hurt Knuckles in the past and I wouldn’t say that he can evade. Dodging bullets is one thing, but dodging Shadow is definitely another. Shadow is too fast and too strong. I guess I’ll bring in my trump card. Shadow has Chaos Mode, which should end this round pretty quickly
  - jman on May 20, 2013 at 6:08 pm said:
    
    No my friend, that is what we like to call plot induced stupidity. It’s when someone (who should lose instantly) fights on par or even beats a superior being for the sake EX. spiderman and firelord, red hulk and the watcher, etc. Shadow is not one of those cases and if sonic was lightspeed in sonic battle, they should have mentioned sonic racing shadow at those speeds, but they didn’t, so he can’t, look it up, please. Yeah, knux would beat them all and they know that, plus they can’t access it anyway. If the M.E. had no effect they wouldn’t have used it to STOP the C.E. when biolizard had it and when emerl absorbed the emeralds, both of which were accessing the chaos emeralds “power” which is actually th M.E. power. I not only have seen those debates, I’ve won them, because they listen. Now, i think i know why you’re confused, you think I’m talking about archie hyper knuckles (which btw is really a super form). No, i am talking about the hyper knux from the games sonic and knuckles and knuckles in sonic 2. It is actually a hyper form (unlike the archie form which jist claims it to be one, even the wiki says it) that is much more powerful super knux (sonic 3 and knux) which like all super forms can move at light speed. The hyper form is distinguished from the already light speed super forms in that (both knuxs and sonics) they left afterimages, meaning they surpassed their previous forms in speed power and durability. They are literally on another level. Shad is only lightspeed when super (stated on the wiki) and hyper sonic and knux are past that, so shadow is outmatched there. No sonic is not faster than super tails, super forms outdo regular forms (even sonic’s speed) and even if shad has hurt knux before (sonic x doesn’t count) it wasn’t alot and coupled with his other abilities, he will evade long enough to lauch a shield and say the chant. I have two trump cards B-), my first being emerald power, which gives him the abilities he had in sonic heroes (remember that golden barrier) without help from sonic.
  - dreager1 on May 20, 2013 at 7:14 pm said:
    
    I do agree that their can be cases of PIS, but that’s not one of them. Also, I don’t agree with both examples. I think Red Hulk could take the Watcher down pretty easily and while Spiderman maybe couldn’t defeat Firelord, I do think that it would be close thanks to his spider sense. Why would they bother saying that they were going at the speed of light? It’s just a given fact that they were. They probably didn’t expect people to go around debating it. It’s like how they never said that Goku was faster than light, when he obviously is. Knuckles couldn’t beat the Sonic fighters (Sonic, Tails, Shadow and Amy) Just about every thread I’ve been to about Knuckles vs Shadow, Shadow has taken the win. So you may have won a couple of battles, but not the war. The gamer version of Hyper Knuckles won’t help much, because the older games where their weakest versions. It’s like how Hyper Sonic from the old games wouldn’t stand a chance against Super Sonic from Adventure 2 Battle. The best chance for Knuckles is from the comics and for Sonic it’s probably from the comics or later games. Shadow will do enough damage because it will add up thanks to the speedblitzing. Knuckles won’t be able to use the gold barrier because he’ll be getting knocked around the whole time. Shadow is a force to be reckoned with and he’s one of the strongest characters in the Sega franchise. Knuckles is still very powerful..just not strong enough to win this round
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 12:28 pm said:
    
    Yes it is, or sonic was holding back, your choice. And watcher, really? He has energy manipulation on par with odin himself, red hulk gets owned by hulk, so no that was right. Rulk is full of pis ( he absorbed the power cosmic and beat rune king thor for christ sake!) and watchers durabilty is legendary. Everyone knows. They won because of their ignorance when it comes to knux, i am not so soon the war will be won :-). No the rules still apply old or new, so it still counts, he goes lightspeed too in the old games as well bro. So he helps, alot. No, shadow given speed is supersonic, now that is a fact. Idk if goku is faster than light, ssj3 and up yeah but……. also, forms are constant, meaning that hyper knux is just as tough then and 100 years from know. They are constant. Really, you think tails amy or shad could beat a non pis knux? Not going to happen. I countered speedblitzing arguement, M.H.A. knux has shown sufficent speed (sonic heroes, sonic rider, sonic rivals) and won’t get speedblitzed. Heck even sonic can’t do it so shadow (who is proven to be supersonic speed) really cant do it, abd he can put up his barriers, shadow isn’t that fast. Chqos emeralds gone, shadow falls. And strongest in sega!?!?! Ever heard of silver the hedgehog? Lol, and that’s why knux wins.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 2:23 pm said:
    
    I choose that Shadow is faster than light 😎 Alright, when has the Watcher ever shown such power? He’s not even Thor level, let alone Odin. Hulk can only beat Red Hulk if it’s a stronger version of PIS, Red Hulk can hold his own. Those are just feats for Red Hulk, absorbing the power cosmic is legit, though beating Thor was plot hax. The Watcher isn’t much of a fighter so he doesn’t have much in the way of power or endurance. The game version counts, but it won’t help much since their older versions weren’t very powerful and are considered slow compared to the modern versions. Current Sonic could keep up with the old Super Sonic. Base Goku is faster than light, he could outdash the Flash in a speed contest!
    
    Knuckles could beat Tails and Amy, but definitely not Shadow. Since Shadow’s definitely a lightspeed fighter, Knuckles would be getting speedblitzed. At lightspeed, Knuckles reactions wouldn’t be quite good enough. Just as Sonic can speedblitz with his lightspeed, Shadow’s lightspeed will be good enough. Knuckles barriers won’t be enough to stop the lightspeed tackle and he won’t have time for the chant. Silver’s tough, but he can’t beat Sonic or Shadow
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 2:42 pm said:
    
    No i sad pis, or holding back lol. And watcher was said to be more powerful thn the collector, took a blast from human torch some weapon by reeds and invisible womam, and was stated to manipulate energy on odin’s scale. No, red hulk is weaker, he overheats, most of his feats are pis AKA loebforce, even even normal gravage hulk would beat him. Watcher is stated to be nearly indestructable. And the only diff between old and new forms are graphics, old s.s. is still light speed. So hyper forms>super forms still. Shadow is not lightspeed, never has been, never will be. Also chant and barrier will work, hes fast enough. Why are you insisting that he’s lightspeed when one hes never been shown (in sab2 Speed wasn’t stated) and two the people who created him say so, they say hes supersonic and if it was a mistake they would have fixed it on the wiki, they haven’t touched it it’s legit. So please stop saying that.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 2:49 pm said:
    
    Yeah, but it can’t be one of those. The Watcher may be tougher than the Collector, but as far as I know, that’s not saying much. Tanking the FF attacks is good, but I’d still take Red Hulk in a fight pretty quickly. His raw power is intense and I think that he could defeat normal Hulk. If the fight drags on long enough, Hulk could get stronger and win, but Red HUlk should have the edge. The Watcher is a “High Above” being like the Tribunal which is why they hype him up, but more often than not, those guys are some of the weaker characters. It doesn’t work like that. Back in the day many characters were just weaker. Mario was a lot weaker back in his 2D days and likewise with the Sonic characters. He’s fast in his hyper form, but his super forms in the comics are much more impressive. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle is all I need. I can stop mentioning it by name, but naturally that’s still my counter argument for the barier and chant. I still say that Shadow wins this round via speedblitz
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 3:08 pm said:
    
    Hey bro, i have to let my phone charge, in The words of the terminato guy “I’ll be back B-)”.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 3:12 pm said:
    
    Alright then, c ya around
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 5:32 pm said:
    
    Back ;-). An idk they say the watcher’s nearly indestructable. And yes the comic forms seem more powerful, it’s because They’re elaborated on (btw “hyper” knuckles in the comics is not really hyper, rather he just chose a name, which is why ignore him when i talk about hyper knux) but if knux where to transform into hyper knux now (which he can) the same basic rules for hyper would apply, They’re all superior to super. Old or new, the powers remained the same. And why do you stiil hold on to that false idea, it’s been proven he’s not. Just let it go bro. Trust me though, i know how it feels….
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 6:25 pm said:
    
    Remember, they also said that the Living Tribunal can basically defeat just about anyone…and look what happened. It’s not just that they’re elaborated on more, but they just do tend to be stronger. Take Knuckles from Sonic X and Knuckles from the comics. There’s a pretty big gap in power. Hyper Knuckles in the comics isn’t great, but he has Super Knuckles which may still outrank the Hyper Knuckles from the games. Shadow is definitely Lightspeed. I wasn’t gonna bring it up, but it’s definitely anything but false. He’s at least that level of speed and who knows how many X faster
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 6:47 pm said:
    
    Pis perhaps? And Yeah, but tend to and actually do are two diff things. In the wiki it states that super knux (from sonic and knuckles) has his gliding ability as well as the typical super forms power, which includes light speed movement. Now if hyper knux’ abilities are stated to be passed super knux, it means he’s faster than light, so super shad is going to be speed blitzed as well as outmatched. Shadow is not hyper Speed, i have given you all the proof i can, use it. He is only supersonic and there is no evidence he is faster.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 7:33 pm said:
    
    Nah, it’s just that cosmic beings can’t bet taken seriously. At least, I never could. I actually don’t think that Hyper Knuckles from the old games was faster than light. Was it ever stated that their super forms were at the time? I don’t think lightspeed movement was possible in that era. Maybe once Sonic DX hit. Shadow definitely isn’t hypersonic, I agree with that. He’s faster than light, so once he’s in his Super Shadow form, then he wins this via speedblitz
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 7:44 pm said:
    
    Some cosmic beings can (ex. cosmoman). And sure it did. The same chaos emeralds are being used and the.same master emerald is holding uo the same angel island. If power levels were to be spcified by era it would have done so ;-). And no, shadow is not.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 7:46 pm said:
    
    Cosmoman is definitely powerful, but he’s more of a being with cosmic powers than a cosmic being…which is definitely a lot better imo. It’s the same emeralds, but different power levels…and Shadow definitely is
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 7:49 pm said:
    
    Lol Agreed, same power (unless told otherwise by the creators), and no (unless his speed is changed by the creators). Knux takes this.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 7:49 pm said:
    
    Other power unless it seems to be the same and yes because he kept up with Sonic who’s lightspeed. Shadow wins via speedblitz
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 7:55 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s stated speed is supersonic, so sonic must have toned it down, it’s only logical. Knux wins either hyper knux or sonic heroes like barrier.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 7:56 pm said:
    
    Nah, that just means that Shadow is lightspeed. The creators just hasn’t realized it at the time. Knuckles Hyper form won’t be enough to stop Super Shadow and Shadow’s speed will let him end this quickly
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 8:02 pm said:
    
    If they should have they would have, but they didn’t which means it isn’t a mistake. So shadow is supersonic. They know more than both of us so it’s right, need a reference? Hyper knux is faster than light, super shadow is not, so knux via speedblitz, need a reference to that too?
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 8:05 pm said:
    
    No, some don’t like to admit their mistakes. Also they may just figure that it’s a given fact at this point, but in the end the conclusion is still that Shadow is lightspeed. There’s no other way that he could keep up with Sonic. I don’t agree that they know more than me about Sonic. I’ve played the games, and watched the shows, so I’m fully qualified to defy the speed levels when I have the proof. Regular Shadow is faster than light, so Super Shadow is just overkill. Hyper Knuckles won’t be able to keep up
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 8:18 pm said:
    
    Bro, don’t you get it, there is no mistake. They would have found it by now. I am also uber knowledgeable about sonic and have watched, played and read most of sonic, and even i say that’s false. It’s the same reason emerl won, like he said, he held back. The same reason blaze keeps up and seemsvto be on his level, he isnt going full speed. Bottom line, he’s not, it’s proven, knux wins. And what proof?
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 8:24 pm said:
    
    They may not know that there’s a mistake so they never even checked. He may hold back against Emerl and Blaze because they were having fun, but why would he hold back with the fate of the planet at stake? Plus he wasn’t at the best of terms with Shadow at that point. Shadow wins via speedblitz. Proof for what?
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 9:03 pm said:
    
    Dude, are you seriously questioning the premise of the creators of the character? They know shadow better than we do, and they say he’s supersonic, even if they make a mistake it is, so it’s supersonic. And he wasn’t joking with blaze, but she.matched his every move, is she light speed, No he just didn’t give it his all, so it’s not new for sonic. He didn’t hate him, and still talked to him before the fight. Proof of speed of light movement.
  - dreager1 on May 21, 2013 at 10:26 pm said:
    
    I know Shadow pretty well. The creators know a lot, but sometimes you can surpass them. Shadow may be “supersonic” but his supersonic = lightspeed anyway so it’s all good. He was holding back with Blaze…meaning he was joking around. That’s why she’s not lightspeed. I never said that Sonic hated Shadow, they were good rivals, but Sonic definitely wasn’t going to hold back. The proof is in the fight
  - jman on May 21, 2013 at 10:44 pm said:
    
    I know him very well too but to assume that you know more than the guy who gave him the abilities and the people who anslyzed it to make it legit is just a no. And wrong, super sonic means more than 2* speed of sound, just setting the record straight. He held back with shadow too, so problem solved. That’s not proof, it was not stated or even hinted at, so no that’s not proof. I have proof that shad only goes twice speed of light (shadow the hedgehog sonic wiki: powers and abilities). Now that my friend is proof.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 7:40 am said:
    
    Lol, there’s no way that SSuper Sonic is 2X supersonic, when regular Sonic is faster than light. Anyway, to get that 2X supersonic thing out of the way, here’s a scan of Sonic using hypersonic speeds casually
    
    http://s209.photobucket.com/user/SonicKMC/media/hyper.jpg.html
    
    If you read through the comic, he also goes across the earth in 3 seconds, which is pretty impressive. He definitely wasn’t holding back against someone as formidable as Shadow and Shadow actually outsped him (With the help of Chaos Control) early on. That is some pretty solid proof, but when there are two different proofs, then you must decide which one makes more sense
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 9:40 am said:
    
    Ok, 1. That’s Technically not canon and two i didn’t say super sonic was that speed, i was referring to the actually term. Shadow is supersonic, not as fast as super sonic, theres a diff. And light can travel around the world 8 times in a second, so that’s not helping sonic’s case though he is the speed of light. And shadow is a pretty good opponent, but not as fast as sonic, shadow ever said it (sonic and the dark brotherhood), he’s not light speed. Also him using chaos controll is game mechanics, heck so is shad keeping up. So i think my proof makes more sense.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 11:46 am said:
    
    Remember, this is composite. Also, the comics aren’t canon to the games, but they are their own canon. If not for them, Knuckles list of abilities would be a lot more limited. Shadow is lightspeed. He claims that he’s not quite as fast as Sonic, but he was keeping up and actually outspeeding Sonic when using the Chaos Emerald’s powers. Chaos Control is anything but a gameplay mechanic since both Sonic and Shadow have been seen to use it in actual cutscenes. So, Shadow keeping up with him is pure skill
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 12:33 pm said:
    
    True, but when discussing sonic characters generally only tge games are canon, but this is canon so… and knix powers would not be limited, they barely boost it as it is and no he’s not. He was not outspeeding him, because gameplay doesn’t count and chaos control is not a game mechanic itself, but in that instance it was, since we don’t how the fight went, we just know sonic won. Pure skill on shads part, pure holding back on shads.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 5:54 pm said:
    
    Alright, we could hypothetically just discuss them with their game abilities, since it doesn’t change the outcome for me anyway. It does limit Knuckles abilities a lot because he’s never shown chaos abilities in the games. Without those, this helps Shadow even more. No, chaos control is purely legit and both Sonic and Shadow are capable of using it. All Shadow has to do is use chaos control on Knuckles and pound him, or just speedblitz him, or stab him with a Chaos Spear. Since he’s lightspeed, it should be easy (Lightspeed because Sonic wasn’t holding back)
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 7:14 pm said:
    
    Sorry, family.If you say so and yes he has (thunder arrow, emerald power, etc.). Never said it wasn’t, however using evindence frome a gameplay race is.knux has powerflash an no he’s not, he’s super sonic.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 7:16 pm said:
    
    What Emerald Power? He’s never really used it in the games and I wouldn’t call Thunder Arrow a Chaos Abiliity. Sonic used Chaos Control in a cutscene when Eggman shot him off the ark, so it’s not just gameplay. Shadow’s lightspeed and Chaos Control>Power Flash. Shadow takes this via speedblitz
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 7:28 pm said:
    
    Sonic and sega all stars racing for emerald power and the creators called it chaos energy, so it is. Never said it was, i was talking about that instance when sonic and shad were racing, shadow keeping up with him then is gameplay mechanics. No he’s not lightspeed, i have proof of it, you don’t. And no, They’re the same cc=powerflash.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 7:42 pm said:
    
    All right, but what about that says that Knuckles has chaos or emerald powers? I’ve never seen it is. Shadow keeping up with him isn’t a gameplay mechanic since when they first met in a cutscene, Shadow was still keeping up with him. Likewise in the forest and in the cutscene right before the race. Shadow is definitely lightspeed and there’s my proof. CC>Power Flash. Power Flash temporarily freezes time for a sec, but is not nearly as potent as Shadow’s abilities. Why do you think Shadow had to go up against the BioLizard? He was really the only one who stood a chance against him aside from Sonic
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 7:52 pm said:
    
    Well one he’s manipulatung chaos energy to create and fire thunder arrow, and emerald power, well he powers himself for chaos energy. And sonic clearly wasn’t running full speed, at all, not to mention my proof about what his speed is automatically cancels it out, so proof refuted. And yes powerflash is, both do the same thing, at around the same time limit too. No, because shadow insisted, remember.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 7:58 pm said:
    
    How do you figure? Are you talking about the thunder arrow in SA2B, or an attack in the racing game? Sonic was definitely going to give it his all in that round. Power Flash is nowhere near the level that Chaos Control is. Chaos Control even makes Shadow’s already impressive speed look like he’s teleporting. Plus once Shadow’s knocking Knuckles around, he won’t be able to counter the Chaos Control with his Power Flash. Shadow insisted because he wanted the others to be spared the humility of losing
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 8:11 pm said:
    
    No he wasn’t, and they just started so you wouldn’t know and oh yeah shadow is only supersonic!!! And yes sab2 thunder arrow. You don’t know which one is more powerful, and neither do i but based off of speculation They’re equal. He can’t knock knux around, not fast enough, and he did that because one he wanted to prove he was the ultimate life form (btw he didn’t care about anyone but maria and rouge) and two because it gave them time to shut down the chaos emeralds via the master emerald.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 8:19 pm said:
    
    SAB2 Thunder Arrow isn’t a chaos attack as far as I know. All evidence points to Chaos Control being better. After all if Power Flash were good, Knuckles would use it more. Shadow is lightspeed since Sonic was going all out and he’s definitely fast enough! That was one reason, but also because the others couldn’t handle the power. Shadow is the Ultimate life form for a reason after all. Knuckles can’t stop that
  - jman on May 22, 2013 at 8:28 pm said:
    
    Thunder arrow is a chaos attack (proof: sonic wiki, knuckles the echidna, power and abilities), and what evidence supports that? And no maybe he just doesn’t need to. And sonic was not going all out!! Shadow is only supersonic, that’s it! No, that’s not a reason. Knuckles wins.
  - dreager1 on May 22, 2013 at 10:18 pm said:
    
    In the comics it’s a chaos attack, but not in the games. Remember, we’re not using the comics 😛 Well, Power Flash is a move that Knuckles can summon to stop time, but that’s about it. Shadow uses Chaos Energy so it’s naturally stronger. Sonic was going all out and Shadow is Lightspeed. Faster than Lightspeed actually! Shadow wins via speedblitz
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 11:15 am said:
    
    No bro, it’s a chaos attack in the games too, it’s on the wiki ;-). Both stop time it’s not like he’s gonig to stop tine more (i laughed just saying that) and both last around the same time. And he is not lightspeed, the racing was just beginning and sonic wasn’t even running top speed, it just started so you can’t say that. Not to mention shadow’s limit is SUPERSONIC! So no, he gets beaten pretty bad.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 12:17 pm said:
    
    On the wiki it doesn’t say that 🙂 Like I said, they cancel out until Shadow starts speedblitzing Knuckles at Faster than Lightspeed. Once Knuckles is getting bounced around, then he uses Chaos Control and Knuckles won’t be able to stop him. Shadow’s not just Lightspeed….He’s massively faster than light and makes lightspeed look slow! All, I can say is that he’s really fast and at least LIGHTSPEED
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 12:29 pm said:
    
    Heh, not on there huh, did you look under mischellanous skills ;-)? It says he can call lightning bolts of chaos energy called what, thunder arrow. Well he’d have to be lightspeed to do knux like that, but he’s not. You can’t say that as if it’s true when evidence clearly states he’s not. Only sonic is that fast, so shad loses.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 12:55 pm said:
    
    All right, it says Chaos Energy in that part, but I doubt they’re using proof to support that claim since there is none for the games. Either way since it’s chaos energy in the comics, we can assume that it is in the games as well. It still stands that Shadow uses his Lightspeed to speedblitz and then a Chaos Blast or Chaos Control will end the match. Shadow’s the ultimate life form, so why wouldn’t he be Lightspeed aside form the proof in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle? So Shadow wins this round
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm said:
    
    Thanks and no he’s not lightspeed, and that “ultimate lifeform” is debatable. Because he’s supersonic sped that is all, and that wasn’t proof, at all. He’s not lightspeed, everybody knows that.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 1:38 pm said:
    
    It’s not debatable that he was created as the Ultimate Life Form. Powerwise, you could debate it, but not characterwise. Anyway, he’s definitely faster than light since he was outspeeding Sonic and also keeping up with him at various points in the game
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 1:58 pm said:
    
    Agreed powerwise it is and Character-wise, he’s an emo, not very impressive. No he wasn’t outspeeding him during that race, not to mention they were just starting no where near top speed, much less light speed. Where’s your proof man, because that my friend is not proof.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 2:40 pm said:
    
    By character, I mean that he is officially the Ultimate Life Form. That doesn’t mean that he’s the strongest or coolest, but he’s the ultimate. Also he may be immortal since he never seems to age. He was outspeeding Sonic in their first meetup and holding his own in the 2nd. In the final round they were both matching each other move for mood. Starting out slow and getting faster. Shadow’s easily lightspeed, the proof’s right there
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 2:51 pm said:
    
    Yeah i know bro i was jk, and yeah he is, i think that’s why he was still alive in silver’s time. And the first time the reason he was so “fast” was because of chaos control, 2nd time sonic wasn’t going full speed, and final round we didn’t se them fight, so we don’t know if they went blow for blow. And they got faster eventually but no where near top speed. That’s not proof, that’s poor speculation bro.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 5:53 pm said:
    
    That’s why it’s handy to have Chaos Control, aside from slowing down time it can also be used to teleport which is another advantage for Shadow. In round 2, Sonic was definitely going all out to take Shadow down. He wanted to clear his name after all. It was the final battle so they were giving it their all. You should have seen them go at it once the battle started. Even before that they were starting to go to their true speeds. It was uncanny!
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 6:17 pm said:
    
    Knuckles has knuckles, so stalemate. And no ge wasn’t, as all out means lightspeed, shads not that fast. The second battle mad doesn’t =all out ok, and final battle they had just gotten started, no true speed was displaye and they only sped up at the last 2 seconds. Afterall i have the game. And shadow is stated to be that speed, so no.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm said:
    
    How’s that a stalemate? Shadow has his speedbltiz and teleporting as well. Once Knuckles is down for the count, he can use a Chaos Blast to finish things. Sonic definitely wouldn’t hold back against such an opponent. Think of it this way, you’re fighting someone and you don’t want to destroy him by mistake. So you hold back, but once you realize that he’s keeping up, you’ll gradually increase your power until you’re winning. So, Sonic was going max after a while. They were speeding up and then entered full speed by the beginning of the cutscene right before the gameplay. Shadow is Lightspeed and wins via speedblitz
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 7:53 pm said:
    
    Oh no, powerflash= chaos control. Shad could never stalemate a non-pis knux. If shadow is no where near his max then he has no worries, and that’s true, shad isn’t near his max. And they didn’t reach full speed at the end, they just sped up, no proof to suggest that he maxed out. What part of it’s a fact that shadow isn’t even hypersonic don’t you get bro?
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 7:59 pm said:
    
    I agree that it wouldn’t be a stalemate since Shadow would win quickly with just his speed, but the Chaos Control will be enough because while Shadow’s knocking Knuckles around with his speed, he can also activate his Chaos Control and mess with time. Shadow’s not only Lightspeed, but he’s also pretty good at using lightspeed, since he was actually taking Sonic on. They did reach full speed, go to a video that includes the cutscene and gameplay fight. It’s after the cutscene and right before the gameplay
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 8:11 pm said:
    
    Speedblitz? No, not fast enough, if it was that easy sonic would have done it already. Yeah he was taking sonic on, a sonic that wasn’t giving it his all. That’s not proof, they may have looked to be going the speed of sound, but since shad is only supersonic i guess sonic was holding back. Have you looked it up yet, it’s on shads wiki page.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 8:13 pm said:
    
    Definitely fast enough. Sonic could speedblitz Knuckles and take him out pretty easily, but they’re friends so he wouldn’t do that. Shadow is lightspeed, no supersonic about it. Sonic must’ve been going all out, look at the speed at the end!
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 8:22 pm said:
    
    Ok, that’s true but ge still dodges gunfire, with move at sonicspeeds. And just because it looked like they were going lightspeeds doesnt mean they were, especially when his top speed is stated! Bro, you didn’t create him and though you’re knowledgeable about him you don’t make the final decision about his speed, they do, and they say supersonic, so he is.
  - dreager1 on May 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm said:
    
    Knuckles is fast, just not compared to someone like Shadow. Sonic’s lightspeed and since Shadow was keeping up, that means that he’s lightspeed. They may have calced him at supersonic, but they probably forgot to factor in the variables like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
  - jman on May 23, 2013 at 8:38 pm said:
    
    Knux may not be fast enough to dodge all the punches but he can dodge some of them, so he won’t get speedblitz. And if that’s the case i guess blaze is light speed too, it’s just not true. They didn’t forget anything, he’s just not fast enough, and they started to speed up=light speed? No, it doesn’t.
  - dreager1 on May 24, 2013 at 7:42 am said:
    
    Dodging some of them won’t prevent him from getting speedblitzed. If he dodges 3 out of every 6 punches, that’s still a lot of hits that would add up very quickly (I don’t think he could dodge 3/6 though) and the speedblitz would be inevitable. That’s why Shadow can’t be stopped. His speed is on a whole other level. Blaze has never kept up with a full speed Sonic so…..If you mean in Sonic Rush, Sonic wasn’t going all out there because there was no need too. They had already sped up after the first cutscene and right before the final battle, so he’s lightspeed
  - jman on May 25, 2013 at 9:02 pm said:
    
    I personally don’t agree that knux can’t dodge 3/6 but for the sake of the arguement let’s just say he can’t, his durability and barriers are more than enough to keep him at bay until the chant is finished. By your logic we don’t know if sonic was serious with blaze or not, so she’s “lightspeed” right? Wrong. Heck even the creators say so, he’s not. Even if the world was at risk, why go all out if you don’t need to, you don’t. And he was keeping up at the end, we don’t know how fast they were going, so that isn’t helping your arguement at all. Also, is that dinosaur king in the background?
  - dreager1 on May 26, 2013 at 9:18 am said:
    
    His durability and barrier won’t be enough because he won’t have time for the barrier and Shadow will hit him with a Chaos Blast to finish him off. He won’t have time for the chant. Sonic wasn’t anywhere close to serious with Blaze. With Shadow, we saw it, but Blaze isn’t quite at that level. If the world is at stake, you’re probably going to give it your all. If you don’t need too, then you may conserve your strength, but when you’re up against a shadow version of yourself who’s your equal/superior, then you’ve gotta give it your all. Yep, the new background was to celebrate the Toonzai anniversary. It’ll probably be switching again for a new anniversary in a couple of days
  - jman on May 26, 2013 at 9:49 am said:
    
    Hold up, at church tty afterwards.
  - dreager1 on May 26, 2013 at 3:14 pm said:
    
    Alright, see ya then
  - jman on May 26, 2013 at 6:21 pm said:
    
    Yes he could its just a simple movement, afterall shadows not lightspeed 😉 and he would sense the build up and dodge. He has the barrier to complete the chant and we don’t know that, we don’t even know if he was going all out with shadow, afterall there’s no proof to support it. If i went up against a shadow version of myself the only thing i would have to worry about is chaos control, as he is not fast enough to keep up with me when I’m going all out, afterall, his top speed is SUPERSONIC. He’s not sonic’s superior, heck he’s not even his equal. And cool, i love that show, i love dinosaurs (i know dinosaurs that even my teacher didn’t know existed, im a dino fanatic) and superpowers, so it was a win win situation.
  - dreager1 on May 26, 2013 at 9:07 pm said:
    
    Heh, well since Shadow is LS, it wouldn’t make a difference 😛 Even if Knuckles got the barrier up, Shadow would just crush it. Then a Chaos Blast could end this quickly. Shadow was definitely going all out and likewise Sonic was. Shadow’s not only Supersonic and Hypersonic, but also LIGHTSPEED! Shadow’s definitely Sonic’s superior in many ways. Dinosaur King is cool, I haven’t seen the show yet, but I read the manga. It was definitely pretty fun
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 9:03 am said:
    
    ^not light speed and crush a fire barrier or volcanic eruption :-, i don’t think so. And sonic.was apparently not going lightspeed, shadow surely wasn’t (since hes only supersonic, a known fact) and he not superior in speed, he’s only supersonic no evidence says otherwise. Oh, well i i haven’t read the manga, but the show is epic! You should check it out. I think chomp is a triceratops maximus, not triceratops horridus, you?
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 9:24 am said:
    
    I think so. Running around Knuckles at super speed will extinguish the fire barrier and a good Chaos Blast would take care of an eruption. Shadow’s lightspeed, but if he was only supersonic, then that would put Knuckles at only superhuman speeds, since he’s nowhere near Shadow level and the verdict would be the same. Shadow wins via speedblitz. The show sounds fun and I’ll probably watch it at some point. Hmm, I forgot what Chomp’s type was. A triceratops is a good guess
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 10:23 am said:
    
    I don’t think he is. And he could dig to avoid both of those counter attacks (remember he can sense a build up of chaos energy)which will give him even more time. And that’s cool if he’s only superhuman speeds, which is true as it is on the wiki, thank you. To speedblitz you have to be fast enough to hit more than 2 times before the person can even make a move, shadow can’t do that. Knux wins via maximim heat attack which will speedblitz. And thanks, i know my dinos, plus the only other ceratopian that size with three horns is torosaurus and even then it had an extra large frill so that ruled him out. I think because of it’s large size he’s the triceratops maximus. Anyway I’m over to visit my grandma ttyl.
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 3:14 pm said:
    
    Digging wouldn’t be advisable because Shadow would be stabbing him from behind with the Chaos Spear. He can sense it coming, but he couldn’t dodge it. Shadow would still be hitting him about a dozen times before Knuckles could do anything. Shadow wins this via massive speedblitz and chaos abilities. Also raw power. Dinosaurs are definitely cool, I always liked the T Rex. See ya later
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm said:
    
    Idk knux can dig really fast and can zigzag it a little, chaos spear can’t follow an opponent and he couldn’t throw the chaos spear until knux is completely underground, as the the fire field and eruption too hot for shadow to get close enough to use it. Chaos blast is only a few meters in radius, and with knux’s head start he could dodge it, (he did outrun the tornadoe (sonic heroes, team sonic intro) shadow cant speedblitz knux, way too fast and doesn’t hace the raw power neccesary, and chaos abilities will be taken away.
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 6:30 pm said:
    
    He can, but Shadow can follow him in the hole and keep hitting him from behind. Going underground would be seriously risky. Chaos Spear will just be used to stab Knuckles. Chaos Blast is short range, but with Shadow’s speed that won’t be a problem. Knuckles caught the tornado, but it wasn’t going full speed since they were talking to him. Knuckles is really fast, maybe supersonic, but since Shadow’s lightspeed, it’s all right. Shadow wins via speedblitz and chaos abilities. Knuckles won’t have time to use the chant and Knuckles has a lot of power
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 7:11 pm said:
    
    I see what you mean, but when he does either of two shad is in trouble. If he uses the flame barrier and digs in a zig zag shadow will have to try to keep up, while keeping his distance and not to be burned, so if knux digs behind a corner and pops out shad is toast. Or he could use the eruption and go in the hole that is created, that way shadow couldn’t enter at all, or both. Either way the chant will be completed, it’s not that long. And shadow won’t be able to charge it fast enough, it at least takes two seconds, which is more than enough time for knux. And even though it wasn’t at full speed he was going pretty fast, so he’s not too slow
    He’s not lightspeed bro, i refuted your proof already, stop saying that. I mean i can’t make you but common sense should dictate that my proof + the creator saying so > you holding on to a fantasy. And i explained above how the chant would be said, via the two defenses.
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 7:44 pm said:
    
    Shadow can extinguish the fire instantly when moving at high speeds so the barrier won’t get in the way. The eruption only lasts for a split second so that won’t work as a defense. Shadow would follow and take him down. Once he’s charging the flames wouldn’t hurt much anyway. Knuckles won’t have time to use the chant and Shadow would have already taken him down via speedblitz and chaos abilities. Knuckles is fast, but Shadow is vastly faster and Shadow’s lightspeed. You attempted to refute the evidence. Shadow takes this via speedblitz
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 8:01 pm said:
    
    How is he going to atempt to extinguish a fire that is 1. Coming from knux, making him untouchable and 2 undergrou? That torando can’t do anything to a target underground. And it last for more than a secong, more like six, not that it matters as even if it was for a sec the walls are waaay to hot for shad to touch, so knux would be home free. The flames wouldn’t hurt much 🙂 and if he charges in to knux’s tunnel, he’ll run into a wall. No i refuted it, completely. I proved he wasn’t, it is you who hasn’t proven that he is, so no speedblitz. Knux wins.
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 8:06 pm said:
    
    Shadow would barrel into Knuckles at incredible speeds so that the fire wouldn’t injure him much. The barrier would go away thanks to the wind before he can go underground. The flames won’t be a solid defense against Shadow’s impressive abilities. Shadow can still stab him with a Chaos Spear and end the match. A Chaos Blast would also deal some massive damage. Shadow was keeping up with Sonic so he’s lightspeed. Shadow wins via speedblitz and raw power
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 9:08 pm said:
    
    What I’m saying is that if he barrels into that fire filled tunnel he’s gonna run into a wall and knock himself out and the flames will hurt him in the long run, then he’ll be screwed. How’s he gonna use chaos spear in a mini volcano or a tunnel with zags, he cant. Chaos blast, and knux is undergroung :-|, nothing is gonna happen..and he’s not. Sonic probably wasn’t full out trying, and (this is key) he’s stated by people who know more about him than me or you (an i know alllot about him) that he is supersonic. I know you think that they made a mistake, but I’m pretty sure they considered everything, if they say so you can bet your money on it. A more likely mistake is naming that superform in archie “hyper knuckles” when it’s not a hyper form, it confuses people.
  - dreager1 on May 27, 2013 at 10:19 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s speed wouldn’t let him be knocked out so quickly. The flames won’t be able to get to him thanks to his raw speed. He can just shoot it. It comes out of his hand so he can shoot it on the go. Chaos Blast is going to do some massive damage to Knuckles, plus he wouldn’t go far underground before Shadow took him down. Sonic was going all out and nobody knows more than me about Sonic stuff. Shadow is definitely lightspeed. It’s a good battle, but Knuckles can’t take on Shadow
  - jman on May 27, 2013 at 11:56 pm said:
    
    bro, it doesn’t matter how fast shadow travels, it doesn’t change the fact that fire is fire, and that whether it affects him right then, or after he’s zoomed through that part of the burrow, he will be in pain. And chaos spear in that situation would be useless, since there will be walls and stuff. How will shad stop knux from going in the hole when he cant even get close enough to do anything about it, he’d go far enough. And look i know just as much as you do aboutt sonic but even i recognize that we don’t knoe if sonic was giving it all against shad and he is stated to be supersonic, so he is. So he loses.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 7:24 am said:
    
    Yes, but fire is dangerous because of how long it hits us. Take a firefighter for example. Once in a while you have to jump in the house and save someone, then dash back out. It’s dangerous because of how long you’re exposed to the heat and smoke, but if the firefighter could be in and out in a split second, it wouldn’t be as dangerous. The fire wouldn’t have time to burn him that much. Chaos Spear doesn’t just come from the sky like in Adventure 2 Battle. Shadow is able to fire it directly from his hands so it won’t need to go through the walls. It’ll just hit Knuckles directly. Shadow can stop Knuckles by stabbing him with the Chaos Spears or hitting him with the Chaos Blast. Alright, I won’t deny that you know a lot about Sonic, but think of it this way. How can you know just as much as me, if you don’t know if he was going all out or not and I do? Either way we both know a lot about Shadow and his speed (Lightspeed) levels. I think Shadow takes this via speed and power
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 8:05 am said:
    
    That’s true, the shorter amout of time you’re exposed to a flane the better, but it will still hurt, you know. And trust me i know chaos spear comes from his hands, i was talking aboit when shad went in the hole and knux made the trail zig zag, chaos spear wouldn’t work because the path wouldn’t be straight so it would hit the walls. I see what ypu mean about stopping him, but shadow would have to stop making the tirnado and fire it and with knux’s sensing and digging speed he can dodge it and once he’s underground the chaos powers go bye-bye :-). Ok, how about this, i know as much as you in that i know onic has a top speed of ftl, and that if shadow wqs keeping up (and he’s been proven to has a top speed of supersonic) that it was either PIS or sonic wasn’t giving his all. And that’s assuming that they even reached that speed, which i am not sure of anyway, and cool ;-).
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 11:48 am said:
    
    It would hurt to the average person, but it wouldn’t damage the Ultimate Life Form that much. Knuckles can zigzag, but since Shadow is a lot faster, Knuckles would never get far enough to dodge the spears. Shadow can also just keep on punching him from behind while Knuckles is digging. Shadow won’t need the tornado much (Though he could use it to keep Knuckles in the air while he defeats him) Shadow just needs to move fast and use his chaos abilities quickly. Knuckles won’t have time to go and dig or use the chant. He can activate the barrier, but the tornado would be up before he knew it and it would keep him suspended in the air. Sonic and Shadow were made to be equals, so it stands to reason that both are lightspeed. Even aside from whether or not Sonic was going all out. They are equally matched in just about every way. Sonic barely defeated him
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 12:46 am said:
    
    Sorry i sent so many messages (my phone was telling me they didn’t send, that was wrong apparently) and you don’t have to respond to all of them. And we’ll talk more about dinos on the cosmoman thread.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 7:26 am said:
    
    It’s all right, I took care of the duplicates. Phones definitely can go haywire sometimes. Also sounds good, dinosaurs are definitely interesting
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 5:04 pm said:
    
    Shad is just as vulnerable to fire as the rest of them, until evidence says otherwise, and how is he going to chase knux in the heart of a mini volcano? And even if he’s suspended he has that fire barrier and can glide so, shad nor chaos spear can touch him. He’ll have time to dig and do the chant. And shadow was meant to be the ultimate lifeform, not his equal, and he’s not. Metal sonic was meant to be his equal, but he’s not, and neither is shadow. Shadow is only lightspeed bro. Knux via chaos empowerment.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 5:26 pm said:
    
    Knuckles abilities are hardly the level of a mini volcano. There will be a little heat and some fire, but nothing that Shadow can’t handle. Shadow will keep on hitting him so that he can’t focus enough to do any real damage. The fire won’t work with all of that wind hitting him and he can’t glide away because of the tornado. He won’t be able to dig because Shadow will be stabbing him with the Chaos Spear. Shadow is the Ultimate Life Form and that’s why he’s Sonic’s equal/superior. Metal Sonic is Sonic’s equal as well. I agree that Shadow is lightspeed so Shadow wins via speedblitz
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm said:
    
    Well, it’s called volcanic dunk and it doesn’t matter how big or small it is, it’s heat and magma will be the same. Shadow’s durability is nice (falling through space and all) but this may be too much. He can’t touch knux, way too hot and he can glide along the currents, and that’s if knux lets suck him up. How’s he gonna use chaosspear on knux when he is tok busy making a tornado? By the time he notices it’ll be too late. Shadow is said to be the “ultimat life form” but he’s not, two people are in front of him. Shadows not lightspeed, I’ve proven that.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm said:
    
    You mean that attack from Heroes? That’s not going to help Knuckles at all! The fire hits the ground and all, but that’s about it. Shadow can just jump over it and keep on taking shots at Knuckles. Also it will all be in slow motion to Shadow so it’ll be even easier. Falling through space is much more deadly than being hit by a little fire. Knuckles isn’t hot enough to burn Shadow from just a punch. That’s why Shadow wears gloves. The Tornado will be much too fierce (Like Windman’s) Knuckles won’t be able to glide through that. Shadow makes a tornado just by running so it’s easy to also fire off Chaos Spears at the same time. Shadow’s definitely the Ultimate Life Form and he’s proved it. Shadow’s definitely lightspeed
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 6:08 pm said:
    
    That attack opens up the earth causing lava to spew out, so not only would knux be able to jump in that hole, shad wouldn’t be able to see where he is, not to mention those fireballs make jumping risky. And slow motion if it was a human yes, but this is knux. And a little fire!? Bro, this is lava, and lots of it (more than 2,400° man). Not to mention when shad was re-entering the atmosphere he was super shadow for most of the way, lessening the blow. He can’t just dive into the lava and molten rock. And he’s not on that level, knux can glide on the air currents. He can’t make a tornado by running :-D, come on. And he’s not lightspeed, that’s a vety annoying lie.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 6:12 pm said:
    
    Nah, he basically punches the ground so hard that it makes a little tremor. The heat/fire from the punch seems to be generated from Knuckles himself. Even if it is lava coming from the ground, he wouldn’t fit in the hole. Not to mention that while he’s attempting to punch the ground, Shadow would stop him before he’s able to do so. lol dude, Shadow can make tornados by running. Basically you just run in a circle at super speeds which creates a vortex. Since he’s lightspeed, that’ll be a simple task for him. Knuckles just isn’t fast enough
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 6:27 pm said:
    
    No, it comes from the earth (sonic wikii) and the hole is most likely larger than him. Shadow can’t stop him from punching the ground, he’s not lightspeed. Never said he couldn’t, but knux can hold on to the ground and dig ;-). And let me fix that *not lightspeed.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 6:29 pm said:
    
    The fire comes from the ground, but Knuckles didn’t punch all the way down to the lava flow. It’s gameplay mechanics as far as that’s concerned. It is a legit ability, but the lava most likely comes from how hard he’s hitting the ground. Shadow’s lightspeed so he could stop him in time. Knuckles can hold on, but he’ll be stabbed by Chaos Spears the whole time
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 6:39 pm said:
    
    No, he punches the ground which disrupts the earth and summons lava to come, via what is known as a lava duct. So it’s not gameplay mechanic, just his ability. And he’s not lightspeed so knux wouldn’t be frozen in time, so he could dig, assuming he didn’t just go with the volcano type eruption.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm said:
    
    Yeah….I’m not sure if that’s how he’s doing it. His punches don’t go quite that deep in the game. Shadow’s lightspeed so it would be easy for him to make it in time. Knuckles can dig, but he’s be stabbed with Chaos Spears. Knuckles just won’t be able to compete with Shadow’s speed, which will lost him the match
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm said:
    
    That is how he does it, it reaches that low. It’s on The wiki (the same accurate wiki that states shadow is supersonic) under the first testiments of his strength). And he’s not lightspeed so he won’t be able touse it without knux digging not to mention low visibility. Man, this is getting us nowhere.
  - dreager1 on May 28, 2013 at 10:25 pm said:
    
    I dunno, I’ve been to the section on the wiki. Which part, the Knuckles section? Shadow’s lightspeed so he could stop Knuckles in time. He doesn’t need to see him because he would have stabbed him by then. Well, debating can go in neverending circles sometimes, but it keeps things interesting at least
  - jman on May 28, 2013 at 10:40 pm said:
    
    Yes, in the first two paragraphs under power and abilities. It should be after him “igniting th air with his force” and “sperating nitrogen with a punch aka deep impact”. He’s not faster than the speed of light, and how can he hit what he can’t see.
  - dreager1 on May 29, 2013 at 11:45 am said:
    
    Alright, I see it. Of course since Sonic Heroes is his best showing of using that ability, it’s still not enough to stop Shadow. He needs to actually make the punch before the fire can come. Also while a little fire comes out of the ground, Shadow can maneuver around it and still hit Knuckles. Or he can just use the Chaos Spears. Shadow’s lightspeed so it should be easy enough. Knuckles won’t get far from Shadow, so since Shadow would be right behind him, he wouldn’t need to see. He’s be close enough to see him anyway though, thanks to his speed
  - jman on May 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm said:
    
    Ok, I’m not going to even correct that he can dodge around the lava statement, just just wow. And it seems our main problem and disagreement over is speed,iso maybe we should focus in that as it will solve all of our problems.
  - dreager1 on May 29, 2013 at 3:40 pm said:
    
    Yeah the lava statement was risky 😎 We could try to settle the whole speed thing but….how would we go about doing that? We’ve tried to settle that a bit in the past after all
  - jman on May 29, 2013 at 4:17 pm said:
    
    Nice counter 😀 and idk, but going back and forth like this is futile. Perhaps we focus mostly on the key point whic is speed. We keep talking about other elements like volcano dunk and chaos spear, but when you don’t even agree on how fast both are, you get conflicting outcomes. Definining the speed will help define their limitations as well as save us time from wasting our thoughts. Then we’ll know what attacks work and what attacks don’t.
  - dreager1 on May 29, 2013 at 7:34 pm said:
    
    All right, so how will we decide whether he’s Supersonic or Lightspeed aside from our current standings?
    
    Supersonic argument
    – Sonic was holding back
    – Official wiki says he’s supersonic
    
    Lightspeed argument
    -Kept up with Sonic
    -Ultimate Life Form
  - jman on May 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm said:
    
    Ok, here we go :-).
  - dreager1 on May 30, 2013 at 10:11 pm said:
    
    Alright 😎 Shadow speed debate begins!
  - jman on May 30, 2013 at 10:27 pm said:
    
    Alrightie, my arguement is this, shadow is not fast enough to speesblitz knux. That would take lightspeed type reaction, and shad just doesn’t possess that. Proof, official wiki statement (stating he is supersonic speeds) and shadow’s own statements saying himself that he is inferior to sonic in speed (sonic and the dark brotherhood). I understand your premise for him going that fast but we can’t really gauge how fast they were going on the cutscene so really can’t say they were going lightspeed. Evidence > assumptions.
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 7:36 am said:
    
    Alright, my counter for this is, Shadow is only slightly slower than Sonic to the point that it’s barely noticeable. That’s why Sonic barely defeated him in Adventure 2 Battle. So they’re both faster than light, but Sonic is slightly faster than Shadow. Shadow’s been shown to speedblitz just about anyone through the years. (Omega, Sonic, etc.) His Chaos Abilities just amp up his speed, like in the first cutscenes of Adventure 2 Battle. But even without them (And without taking off his inhibitors) he’s still lightspeed. Shown feats>Evidence>Assumptions
  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 9:06 am said:
    
    Counter, we don’t know that shadow is a little slower or alot slower than sonic, but based on the evidence he seems alot slower. He blitzed omega because he didn’t have a targeting system, but he does now and during that race sonic was holding back, as he’s lightspeed ans shad is only supersonic. I agree that chaos control helps his speed, but i don’t agree that he’s lightspeed without it, it’s never been stated and to assume that is an assumption, unless he takes off his inhibitors, and that’s an assumption so… proven facts > shown feats with no evidence to base it off of (ex. race in sab2.).
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 11:57 am said:
    
    Counter, Shadow was keeping up with Sonic in the Green Forest and nearly destroyed him if not for Rouge being in danger. Also his lightning fast speed enabled him to save Sonic from Silver (And also take the guy down) Omega did seem to have a targeting system, but Shadow kept evading the sensors. Since he was keeping up (and outspeeding) Sonic at some points (Outspeeding w Chaos Control) I’d say that he’s at least lightspeed and that’s why the difference in speed isn’t that drastic. He did all of that without taking off his inhibitors so with them off…well things get interesting. Keeping up with Sonic speed feat>Proven Facts
  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 12:26 pm said:
    
    Ok, that green forest incident was circumstancial (if you use sonic it seems like he was dominating on the cutscenes) and they both were breathing heavy. And all he did was get in the way, amy has done the same. When he hit silver he used chaos control, not his speed to do that, check again. He didn’t have targeting systems or they were malfunctioning, check the wiki, it says so. He kept up with sonic, so did blaze, just shows that sonic was holding back, nothing more. Sonic’s speed was not defined and if there’s proof that says otherwise it’s better to go with that, as it is not refutable like assumptions. Facts>assumption of speed.
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 12:30 pm said:
    
    I wouldn’t say that he was dominating. In both versions they were evenly matched. Both of them were breathing hard in each version. The only place that Sonic was winning was in gameplay. Shadow still jumped in front of Silver so fast that Silver had to stop his attack. With Chaos Control he did dominate the fight, but his speed was also key. I don’t know what the wiki says about it, but he was definitely trying to hit Shadow with the lock on in the cutscene. Sonic wasn’t holding back with the whole world at stake. Sonic’s lightspeed thanks to rush adventure. It’s safe to say that they were originally meant to be supersonic and got upgraded to lightspeed later on. Upgrades>Facts
  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 12:55 pm said:
    
    Ok but i did say both were breathing hard (i forgot no gameplay). And shadow didn’t do anything by getting in the way, all he did was jump in his way after he finish charging, he didn’t even start it, anyone could have done it, ex. Amy did it. His speed wasn’t key, that was totally chaos control, all he did was use chaos control to manipulate time and did a jogging roundhouse kick, anyone can outspeed a fast character using c.c., so nothing special there. And the wiki says that it seems that omega’s targeting system is either non existent or flawed as during the cutscenes and during his attacks, They’re all innacurrate and flawed. He receives an better one in sonic 2006, that’s me paraphasing. Sonic didn’t need to go full speed to save the world, and if he was lightspeed in sonic battle he was lightspeed in sonic rush. Sonic held back on shadow, as his speed would have been an overkill facts>upgrades.
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 1:27 pm said:
    
    I agree that he was using Chaos Control, but he definitely stopped Silver with the quick jump. Silver was about to finish off Sonic (With plot hax) and Shadow jumped in front so hard/fast that Silver had to jump back and lose his hold on Sonic. Of course Shadow could use similar Chaos Control techniques against Knuckles. Power Flash can only counter it for so long thanks to Shadow’s speed. They may have been flawed, but even with a better system, he could never hit Shadow. He is lightspeed in all of the games, they just don’t mention it that often. Sonic did need full speed to save the world. As it was he was almost too late to put the Chaos Emerald in. He definitely didn’t hold back with Shadow. Rivals going all out>Facts
  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 1:47 pm said:
    
    Thanks and that’s not a speed feat for shadow, he just caught him off guard, you know? Amy has done the same. And knux could use powerflash, but we’ll get to that later. And sonic 2006 (though it’s not canon) disagrees with you, as in the future omega takes shadow down, so the target system must work. And shadow isn’t lightspeed, if so they would’ve mentioned it, and sonic’s full speed is lightspeed, shadow’s is supersonic, the marh is simple. Key word is almost too late, he didn’t need to give it all with his speed. Holding back true potential > giving it his all with an inferior.
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 5:17 pm said:
    
    That’s still a good feat for Shadow. It took some intense speed to land right at that moment so that Sonic could be saved and Silver’s power interrupted. Sonic 2006 is canon….that’s one of the biggest Sonic games out there. It revolutionized the series. The future was plot hax. Omega can’t take down Shadow so it must’ve been a sneak attack. They rarely ever mention that Sonic’s lightspeed and he appears a lot more than Shadow. They just haven’t gotten around to saying it yet. It was almost too late at top speed, so if he had held back, he wouldn’t have made it. Fateoftheworldshadowvssonicspeed>Supersonicspeeds
  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 5:29 pm said:
    
    It’s not a very good feat, amy did the same thing and no it’s not, those events technically never happened after the defeat of solaris, remember. And it’s not plot hax, omega just beat him. And if he was they would’ve mentioned it, at least once. They do However mention he’s supersonic ;-). They have had more than ten years to correct it, if there was something to correct it would have been corrected and it’s no too late at lightspeed, not even close. Shadow is only supersonic so sonic held back, he knew he.could still make it superior speed > assumption.
  - dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 6:24 pm said:
    
    It’s still a decently good feat. Solaris erased the events, but that doesn’t make them not canon. They still happened after all, but the events were erased. Time isn’t linear (Well in some fictions it is, but not in the big ones) so it may have never “happened” as far as the characters are concerned since they can’t remember it, but it did happen. Totally plot hax, Omega can’t take down Metal Sonic, let alone Shadow. He’s a robot so his speed is limited. They’ve had time, but they just didn’t care enough to correct it. Sonic wouldn’t take a chance like that with his friends on the line. Climatic Final Battle speed =>Supersonic facts
jman on May 16, 2013 at 10:28 pm said:

Phone’s dying tty in a minute.

Reply ↓
- dreager1 on May 17, 2013 at 7:28 am said:
  
  Alright, see ya later
  
  Reply ↓
jman on May 31, 2013 at 7:05 pm said:

If amy replicated it, it’s not that impressive and true even if it’s canon, but not relevant to the characters, as to the characters it nev er happened. Not plox hax, ge could take shadow, and he did. I mean, think about all of his weapons. Sonic wouldn’t need to go all out, even if he didn’t give it his all he knew it would be ok, that’s why he did it. There’s nothing to correct. Supersonic facts> climatix assumption.

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- dreager1 on May 31, 2013 at 7:07 pm said:
  
  In which scene did Amy stop Silver’s psychic attacks and force him back with just a jump? It’s still relevant because they haven’t changed much since then. Those are still accurate places for feats. Omega has a lot of weapons, but he’s far too slow to take on someone as powerful as Shadow. Sonic didn’t know that he would be okay, so he went all out, but Shadow kept up and nearly defeated him. Equal rivals>Supersonic speeds
  
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  - jman on May 31, 2013 at 7:40 pm said:
    
    Yes, the scene where silver was going to use psycho smash to finish sonic when amy jumped in. Silver told her to move but she didn’t. She jumped in just like shad. Ok they are, but it won’t help. And omega has boosters and targeting systems, apparently that was enough. I would explain why but this is about speed. And yes he did, he was confident in his abilities, that’s his character. So faster than than his rival> equal rivals.
  - dreager1 on June 1, 2013 at 7:11 am said:
    
    Amy startled him to he stopped, but with Shadow it was more intense since he already had Sonic in a psychic choke hold. Also when Shadow came in, Silver had to totally jump back. When Amy came in, Silver pretty much just stood there. Those boosters and systems would never be enough to take down the Ultimate Life Form. Sonic is confident, but only when he’s at risk. When his friends are at risk, then he goes all out. Friendship Power vs Ultimate Life Form speed battle>hypersonic speeds
  - jman on June 1, 2013 at 7:15 am said:
    
    Getting ready to taking my SAT’s ttyl.
  - dreager1 on June 1, 2013 at 7:17 am said:
    
    Cool, good luck then.
  - jman on June 1, 2013 at 7:19 am said:
    
    thanks bro :-D.
  - jman on June 1, 2013 at 4:27 pm said:
    
    No, both were equally impressive (if at all, he only flinched) and him already having him in a psychic hold is a little less, as he was completely focused on sonic, so of course it startled him more. Omega’s boosters are no jke, that was totally legit. And sonic is confident, period, if he knows he can do it he’ll joke around, ex sab2. Sonic knew he could do it, and was seriou, but not going all out. Faith in abilities > controlled problem.
  - dreager1 on June 1, 2013 at 7:25 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s was definitely more impressive. It wasn’t just that Silver was startled, but also that for the first time in his life, he felt true fear. Shadow strikes fear into the hearts of many. Omega’s tough, but he still can’t take down Shadow..or even land a decent shot thanks to Shadow’s speed. Sonic didn’t know that he could do it. He was really confident of course and had to keep up a brave face so that his friends wouldn’t worry, but he needed to go all out. Confident Demeanor>99% speed
  - jman on June 1, 2013 at 7:43 pm said:
    
    Really now, true fear huh, any proof? He looked startled if anything. Omega is fast enough, my proof? Sonic 2006 and his boosters. And sonic didn’t keep a brave face, it was genuine, that’s how he is. So confidence > going all out for no reason.
  - dreager1 on June 1, 2013 at 7:45 pm said:
    
    Very startled. Who wouldn’t fear Shadow at that point? He seemed pretty desperate when he tried to punch Shadow. Omega is fast…but those boosters are hardly Shadow level. Omega might be supersonic though 😛 Sonic is confident, but he knows when to get serious. Serious Sonic matching up against Shadow>Fate of the World
jman on June 22, 2013 at 11:13 am said:

He was just startled, no fear involved. He tried to punch him …. so? Of omega is supersonic then he’s right on shadow’s level :-P. Right sonic knows when to get serious, which is why he held back on shadow. Sonic’s confidence > shadow’s “threat”.

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- dreager1 on June 22, 2013 at 3:24 pm said:
  
  He not only threw a punch, but he was yelling and he seemed very desperate. Shadow’s lightspeed, so supersonic is pretty slow compared to his awesome power 😎 Sonic didn’t hold back against Shadow. He knew that his time was coming to an end. Sonic’s Last Stand>Lightspeed
  
  Reply ↓
jman on June 23, 2013 at 12:47 am said:

Angey yes (it is his second time getting interrupted after all), desperate no. He is not lightspeed, not even close. Sonic held back, shadow isn’t on his level, not even close. Shadow’s inferiority> sonic’s “last stand”.

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- dreager1 on June 23, 2013 at 9:15 am said:
  
  I don’t know, I personally found him to be pretty desperate at the time. Shadow’s definitely light speed. In Adventure 2 Battle, he owned and beat up just about everyone. Sonic wouldn’t hold back against the Ultimate Life Form and his epic skills. Ultimate Life Form Skills + Sonic going all out = Massively Lightspeed
  
  Reply ↓
jman on June 23, 2013 at 4:43 pm said:

After trying to kill someone two times and getting interrupted both times anyone would be desperate and annoyed. Shadow is not lightspeed and he didn’t own anyone. He’s stated it, the creators have stated it, I’ve PROVEN it, idk what else to say, but he’s not. Also key word is life FORM. So compared to robots he must be the ultimate, but not sonic. Shadow’s own words + claims by the creator= shadow supersonic

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- dreager1 on June 23, 2013 at 4:51 pm said:
  
  Yeah, I’d be pretty sad if somebody kept stopping me from doing my job, but it does show that he was desperate. Shadow’s definitely lightspeed and when did he not pwn everybody? Everyone was definitely beneath him in Adventure 2 Battle (Save for Sonic) Shadow’s definitely lightspeed since he was keeping up with Sonic. Shadow Keeping up with Sonic + Equal Abilities between them = Lightspeed for both of them
  
  Reply ↓
  - jman on June 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm said:
    
    Desperate and annoyed are two diff things, silver was the latter. Shadow didn’t pwn anyone on sonic aventure battle, at least not from what I’ve seen. No one was beneath him in sab2, heck they did diff jobs so there is really no comparison. And sonic held back that race, as he is faster. Sonic being proven faster + shadow being proven slower= shadow losing.
  - dreager1 on June 24, 2013 at 8:03 am said:
    
    But you said that he was desperate and annoyed in your other comment. Well, he seemed pretty desperate to me in that cutscene. Shadow pwned everyone, GUN, Stopped Rouge when she got the newspaper, He made Eggman scared, and he took out the BioLizard. Shadow took everybody down in that game! Imagine how much quicker he could find the Master Emerald pieces than Rouge or Knuckles with his speed. Sonic wasn’t holding back in that round. Sonic’s Determination + Shadow’s will to never give up = Massively Lightspeed
  - jman on June 24, 2013 at 1:39 pm said:
    
    Ok, he was a little desperate, but more annoyed than anything. I mean, who wouldn’t be. Taking down gun is no big feat (rouge did too), he didn’t do anything special to rouge charmy could have done the same, vector has scared eggman soo (sonic heroes)…., and knux could have taken biolizard. Not a big deal, plus shad can’t sense the shards :-P. Sonic was obviously holding back. So sonic beinglightspeed+ shadow being supersonic= sonic holding back and shadow being slow.
  - dreager1 on June 24, 2013 at 4:08 pm said:
    
    Trust me, defeating the government is a pretty good feat. After all, they did pretty good against Sonic right? Charmy definitely couldn’t have done the same. He lacks Shadow’s wit and super speed. Vector scared Eggman, but not as much as Shadow. Knuckles definitely couldn’t have defeated the BioLizard. That guy was huge! Even Sonic would have had a tough time. Shadow can’t sense the shards, but his speed should be enough 🙂 Sonic and Shadow being equals + Shadow’s inhibitors – Shadow’s Chaos Emerald X Sonic’s Passion for Chili Dogs – Sonic’s speed = Both being lightspeed
  - jman on June 24, 2013 at 8:32 pm said:
    
    Hey, my email is not working properly so I’ll tty when it’s fixed bro.
  - dreager1 on June 25, 2013 at 9:43 am said:
    
    Okay, until then
jman on June 23, 2013 at 4:58 pm said:

On my way to church, ttyl.

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- dreager1 on June 23, 2013 at 5:02 pm said:
  
  All right, see you later
  
  Reply ↓
jman on June 30, 2013 at 9:34 pm said:

Sup bro, I’m baaaack ;-).

Reply ↓
- dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 8:12 am said:
  
  Long time no see. I hope you’ve been having a good week 🙂
  
  Reply ↓
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 8:24 am said:
    
    You know, i had a good week so far. I’m almost done with these college classes so all in all i can’t complain. You?
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 8:25 am said:
    
    Yep, I’ve had a pretty fun week. I got to play a lot of Super Smash Bros Brawl and I’m nearly done with all of the challenges
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 8:27 am said:
    
    You got to play brawl, cool! As you know i haven’t played it yet (but I’ve been Looking up the moves and watching videos) and I’m getting the game next week. Is it as good as ssbm?
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 8:30 am said:
    
    Hmmm, SSBM is technically better in terms of gameplay, but SSBB is possibly more fun. I’ve never gotten tired of playing it (After over 500 hours of play time) and the Subspace Emissary is pretty awesome
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 8:35 am said:
    
    Oh cool, i kind of figured that. So did you here about the new characters in the new super smash bros ;-)?
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 8:36 am said:
    
    Yep, the Wii Fit Trainer looks pretty intense. I’m definitely going to be playing as her a lot for fun. Mega Man is definitely the coolest character to join the ranks though. I can’t wait to use all of those projectiles
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 8:45 am said:
    
    Yeah, the blue bomber is the coolest, and when i saw him use metal blade and slash claw i almost died!
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 8:47 am said:
    
    That was awesome. He definitely clobbered all of Nintendo’s main fighters. They never stood a chance against his incredible power!
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 9:01 am said:
    
    Yeah! But i dowish it was battle network megaman….. but that would be an overkill! Maybe in the next mvc he will appear.
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 6:19 pm said:
    
    Battle Network Megaman would definitely be pretty awesome. I’m hoping that the next MVC is a lot better than the 3rd and having Megaman in it would be awesome
  - jman on July 1, 2013 at 6:27 pm said:
    
    Yeah! Mvc 3 was just ok and hopefully the next will be better. My phone needs charging tty when it charges.
  - dreager1 on July 1, 2013 at 6:27 pm said:
    
    It should be a lot better next time. Ok, see you around then.
  - jman on July 2, 2013 at 8:02 am said:
    
    Sup dude, are you up?
  - dreager1 on July 2, 2013 at 8:07 am said:
    
    Definitely, but I’m probably not gonna be around for a while. Probably not until the evening, but I’ll see ya then
  - jman on July 2, 2013 at 8:09 am said:
    
    Gotcha ;-).
  - dreager1 on July 2, 2013 at 5:59 pm said:
    
    At least you’ve now got more time to look up cool SSBB vids
jman on July 2, 2013 at 7:32 pm said:

My fam is on the way to church ttyl.

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- dreager1 on July 2, 2013 at 8:05 pm said:
  
  Cool, you’ll have a fun time. I’ll see you around then
  
  Reply ↓
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 6:32 pm said:
    
    Sup bro.
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 6:33 pm said:
    
    Doing pretty good. How about you?
jman on July 3, 2013 at 6:39 pm said:

Pretty good man, pretty good. Hey before we get back to the knux vs shad discussion, which system are you getting first, xbox one or ps4?

Reply ↓
- dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 6:47 pm said:
  
  PS4. I’m definitely looking forward to that console a lot!
  
  Reply ↓
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 6:52 pm said:
    
    Yeah, me too! Xbox one seemed way too media based (they mentioned tv and sports too much), plus it costs too much. Ps4 seems way better.
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 6:53 pm said:
    
    Definitely, the PS4 will be the next console that I buy. By the time I get it, I can hopefully pick up FF and KHIII right away
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 6:56 pm said:
    
    Cool and I’ve never played any of those games. Are they good?
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 6:57 pm said:
    
    Yeah, they’re definitely fun. I recommend Final Fantasy Xiii for PS3 and KHII for Ps2. They’re very solid games
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 7:06 pm said:
    
    Sounds cool. I’ll try it.
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 7:07 pm said:
    
    You’ll definitely enjoy it!
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 7:15 pm said:
    
    Gotcha, is it better than starfox?
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 8:08 pm said:
    
    Yeah, but it’s pretty close. Star Fox Assault could possible defeat them
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 8:20 pm said:
    
    Sorry i have to leave right now but my phone needs to charge. Ttyl man.
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 9:32 pm said:
    
    No worries, I’ll see ya around
  - jman on July 3, 2013 at 8:28 pm said:
    
    Sorry to keep leaving but my phone is dying ttyl.
  - dreager1 on July 3, 2013 at 9:33 pm said:
    
    I’ll see ya later then, enjoy the holiday!
jman on July 5, 2013 at 7:39 pm said:

Hey man.

Reply ↓
- dreager1 on July 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm said:
  
  Hey, how’s it goin?
  
  Reply ↓
  - jman on July 5, 2013 at 7:43 pm said:
    
    Pretty good, you?
  - dreager1 on July 5, 2013 at 7:45 pm said:
    
    Great! Getting today’s blog matches up
  - jman on July 5, 2013 at 7:54 pm said:
    
    That’s cool, it’s good to have a diversity of topics.
  - dreager1 on July 5, 2013 at 7:54 pm said:
    
    Definitely, we’ve got a lot of epic matches in today! Ash Ketchum makes his return
  - jman on July 5, 2013 at 8:03 pm said:
    
    Oh good ol ash, he’ll be quite the adversary.
  - dreager1 on July 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm said:
    
    Definitely, that guy doesn’t play around!
  - jman on July 5, 2013 at 8:21 pm said:
    
    Indeed, kind of like knuckles ;-).
  - dreager1 on July 5, 2013 at 9:42 pm said:
    
    Yeah, Knuckles always was a fighter! 😛
  - jman on July 5, 2013 at 10:32 pm said:
    
    Even better than shadow :-D.
  - dreager1 on July 6, 2013 at 6:41 am said:
    
    Nah, I wouldn’t go that far 😉
  - jman on July 6, 2013 at 9:18 am said:
    
    I would, with knuckle’s skill and durability shadow will be out like a light.
  - dreager1 on July 6, 2013 at 12:08 pm said:
    
    But Shadow would be able to win via massive speedblitz. Knuckles wouldn’t be able to land a shot on him
  - jman on July 6, 2013 at 12:33 pm said:
    
    But shadow doesn’t have the speed neccessary to do that kind of speedblitz. Knux will have enough time to put up his defenses and say the chant, and then it’s a one sided battle.
  - dreager1 on July 6, 2013 at 6:57 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s massively lightspeed and was casually taking on Sonic. His speed is definitely necessary to win. The chant takes way too long to say and he wouldn’t have time to get his defenses up. Add to that Shadow’s chaos abilities and things really get one sided!
  - jman on July 6, 2013 at 7:00 pm said:
    
    At work, ttyl afterwards.
  - dreager1 on July 6, 2013 at 7:01 pm said:
    
    Gotcha
  - jman on July 7, 2013 at 8:11 pm said:
    
    Back man.
  - dreager1 on July 8, 2013 at 7:42 am said:
    
    Hey there
  - jman on July 8, 2013 at 10:28 am said:
    
    Alright i have two simple comments to your statement, 1. Knux will have time to put up his defenses and say the chant because shadow is far from lightspeed, and 2. When he does shadow wont be able to acces the chaos powers chaos powers.
  - dreager1 on July 8, 2013 at 4:53 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s lightspeed thanks to Adventure 2 Battle. Shadow won’t have time to put up his defenses and especially not to say the chant. The chant takes a really long time to say after all. Shadow’s chaos powers would win the battle before Knuckles can counter
  - jman on July 8, 2013 at 5:07 pm said:
    
    Since shadow’s speed is key here I’ll focus on that, the rest will fall into place. Now shadow is far from lightspeed, shadow has basically stated it, the creators have stated it, and sab2 proves it, why are you still saying that?
  - dreager1 on July 8, 2013 at 5:09 pm said:
    
    Shadow proves that he Is lightspeed in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. He was keeping up with a full powered Sonic who was desperate tho save the world. Not only was he using his top speed, but he was likely going even faster than usual. He definitely wanted to save the world and nobody was going to stop him…until Shadow came along!
  - jman on July 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm said:
    
    Hey, I’m on my way to see my grandma so tag you’re it :-D.
  - dreager1 on July 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm said:
    
    Sounds like a plan. Enjoy your day 🙂
  - jman on July 9, 2013 at 9:47 pm said:
    
    No, sonic knew that even though the world was at stake, shadow.was no real threat. Afterall his PROVEN speed limit is supersonic, only logical assumption. And he’s much slower.
  - dreager1 on July 9, 2013 at 9:53 pm said:
    
    Sonic knew that Shadow was a threat. Shadow had already taken him on twice before that round and was easily holding his own. Since Shadow is about equal to Sonic in speed, he couldn’t hold back
  - jman on July 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm said:
    
    Just because he took sonic sonic on doesn’t mean he thought he was worthy of his full speed, after all he look like he tied with blaze for a while too. It’s best to stick with the facts and the fact is shadow us only supersonic.
  - dreager1 on July 9, 2013 at 10:21 pm said:
    
    Sonic never looked like he was Blaze level. There were no stakes during the battle and it was gameplay mechanics. Now with Shadow, it’s a whole other story. The stakes got extremely real! Shadow’s definitely lightspeed
  - jman on July 10, 2013 at 9:43 am said:
    
    Shadow only runs supersonic and sonic wasn’t stated to be running lightspeed at the time, so it only makes sense that he was holding back. And with blaze she was running and keeping up with sonic during what looked like a race to eggman. Now though sonic won, he was clearly holding back, like he did with shadow.
  - dreager1 on July 11, 2013 at 10:53 pm said:
    
    Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. Sonic wouldn’t hold back with the fate of the world at stake. Blaze couldn’t keep up with Sonic at all. Their speed levels are completely different. Blaze is probably supersonic-hyper sonic speeds
  - jman on July 13, 2013 at 9:14 am said:
    
    Then him and blaze have something in common, they’re both supersonic and both were help back on by sonic. And eveen though the world was at stake he held back, don’t know why for sure but he did apparently.
  - dreager1 on July 13, 2013 at 3:12 pm said:
    
    Sonic didn’t hold back against Shadow. For Blaze he was just having fun, but against Shadow, he was all business. That’s the way Sonic rolls. He wouldn’t endanger the lives of his friends
  - jman on July 13, 2013 at 4:54 pm said:
    
    We don’t know if sonic took shad seriously, we do know however that shadow is only supersonic. At work ttyl.
  - dreager1 on July 13, 2013 at 6:24 pm said:
    
    Sonic was definitely taking him seriously since Shadow had already defeated him once and tied him during the 2nd round. So, while Sonic is slightly faster, Shadow is definitely lightspeed
  - jman on July 15, 2013 at 12:50 pm said:
    
    Since when did shadow beat sonic as they tied in the jungle and shadow used chaos control in the first time they met and ran, so that wasn’t a battle. Shadow is def. supersonic.
  - dreager1 on July 15, 2013 at 9:58 pm said:
    
    The first time still counts as a win. He was clobbering Sonic. In the forest it was a tie, so that means that Shadow is lightspeed. Shadow’s definitely able to keep up with Sonic
  - jman on July 17, 2013 at 11:54 am said:
    
    The first time shadow used chaos control, and the second time they tied, so one is invalid because well shadow used chaos control, duh. And the other sonic never said he gave it his all, nor that he was running lightspeed, so shadow is definetely supersonic. Don’t make assumptions, at least not as bad as these were.
  - dreager1 on July 18, 2013 at 10:10 pm said:
    
    First is still valid because Shadow’s Chaos Control is a legit form of high speed movement. Sonic was definitely giving it his all and was running at lightspeed. Just look at the cutscene again or play the level before the final battle. Sonic definitely seemed desperate to wind and Shadow wasn’t going to let them. It’s like how Sonic and Shadow are both casual planet busters but there is little proof. Shadow’s just too fast! He’s faster than the Flash and Superman 😮
  - jman on July 18, 2013 at 10:29 pm said:
    
    Wrong, the first example about chaos control is invalid because chaos control slows down time relative to the user and had NOTHING to do with shadow’s speed. It’s an example if his control over chaos energy, not his speed. During the last battle sonic didn’t look serious or concerned at all, he actually looked intrigued and excited. I’ve played that game more times than you can count, i don’t need to look again, you do. He wasn’t going lightspeed nor is shadow a planetbuster, not without his superform anyway.
  - dreager1 on July 19, 2013 at 10:21 am said:
    
    Slowing down time is still valid for speed. Example: You are about to race Drake Delon. He’s an olympic sprinter and you’re pretty fast as well. You can slow down time which helps your speed equal his and you manage to take a narrow win. I would still say that you’re pretty fast because slowing down time is merely a way of amping up your own speed. Personally, I’d definitely count it as speed. I’ve played Sonic Adventure 2 Battle for dozens and dozens of hours. I’ve played that last battle many times and I got all S Ranks in the game. I definitely know what I’m talking about here. Sonic was through playing around and he was going all out. They were both going all out and I meant that Shadow is a planet buster in his Super Shadow form. Regular form busting a planet would be a bit tricky 😉
  - jman on July 19, 2013 at 2:19 pm said:
    
    Ok, natural speed and manipulating time to appear fast are two different things. Shadow slows down time to get somewhere faster whereas sonic is actually fast while time is constant. He’s not fast, but he has a great manipulation of time, not speed. If turtles could do it would tbey be fast, no. Try getting S. Rank the first time, i don’t need to look sonic was holding back, if he didn’t shadow would be dusted. You mistake having the same skills as having the same speed, which is wrong. Shadow is known to be supersonic, now hopefully You’ll get it.
  - dreager1 on July 19, 2013 at 4:55 pm said:
    
    Saying that Shadow is not fast is definitely going overboard. I never said that manipulating time is natural speed, but it is still speed. Say I eat two thin crust slices and you eat one normal sized one. I still ate more slices even though they were smaller. They both affect speed so Shadow’s definitely lightspeed. S Ranks are definitely intense and getting them all is epic. I recommend it since you unlock Green Hill Zone. I have looked, and Sonic was definitely going all out. Shadow is known to have stats that are about equal to Sonic in every way. That includes speed.
  - jman on July 19, 2013 at 5:38 pm said:
    
    You think that’s overboard, try comparing sonic’s speed to shadow’s. Shadow has the potential to go that fast WITH a chaos emerald, but his normal speed is only supersonic. S rank is cool, it’s perfection, like me. Shadow has many of his skills (spindash, homing attack, etc), but just because you have the same same skills doesn’t mean you’re the same everywhere. What stats, as even in sonic battle they acknowledge his speed is caused by chaos control, so no they are not equal.
  - dreager1 on July 19, 2013 at 5:41 pm said:
    
    I have compared them. They’re both around light speed which is why he’s known as the Ultimate Life Form. In Adventure 2 Battle and Sonic X, Shadow is seen to match Sonic move for move. Even in Generations, he seemed to be holding his own. That’s why getting an S rank against him is so epic. Shadow is basically the dark version of Sonic, but equipped with advanced chaos abilities. Just check out Sonic 2006. He was able to take Silver down when Sonic wasn’t able to land a single hit
  - jman on July 19, 2013 at 5:57 pm said:
    
    Well apparently you miscalculated. Just because shadow has speed that rivals sonic’s (sonic rivals), doesn’t mean he’s lightspeed. It means he travels around the speed sonic does, supersonic. He held his own but it doesn’t mean he’s lightspeed, at all. He’s not a dark veraion of sonic, as he is not lightspeed. Sonic holds back that’s how shadow holds his own, sorry.
  - dreager1 on July 19, 2013 at 6:27 pm said:
    
    I don’t miscalculate 😎 Shadow is definitely lightspeed. I agree that his speed rivals Sonic’s, but when they say that Shadow’s speed rivals Sonic, of course they are talking about his full speed. Why would they talk about supersonic? Amy Rose is supersonic speed, not guys like Shadow and Sonic. Shadow is a dark version of Sonic and he’s definitely lightspeed. That’s why he tends to crush Sonic or tie him when they battle. (Shadow The Hedgehog opening)
  - jman on July 19, 2013 at 7:10 pm said:
    
    No, they didn’t mean full speed, as they show him and state him to be supersonic. And by your logic amy is as fast as shadow, as he is supersonic. He may be a dark version of sonic, but it doesn’t mean he has all of hia attributes, proof he doesn’t have his lightspeed or even hypersoeed movement. And when did he “crush” sonic!? That chaos control incident didn’t count, it wasn’t his speed!
  - dreager1 on July 19, 2013 at 9:32 pm said:
    
    No, they definitely meant full speed. Amy is supersonic and we know that she’s not Shadow level, so Shadow must be lightspeed. Shadow’s shown his lightspeed abilities when he’s taken on Sonic in the past. Look at the Shadow the Hedgehog ending (One of them) and the opening to see him Crush Sonic. Chaos Control is still his ability so it counts. Shadow is still lightspeed without it though
  - jman on July 19, 2013 at 10:17 pm said:
    
    Ok, you’re actung like an idiot. 1. They didn’t mean shadow was his full speed, proof: they said he is SUPERSONIC and close to HYPERSONIC! 2. Shadow is not lightspeed, period. Proof? It’s stated he is supersonic! 3. In that ending sonic is exhausted from fighting all of the monsters, not shadow, stop being stupid and grasping at straws, he’s not supersonic, unless he uses c.c., which we cancelled out.
  - dreager1 on July 20, 2013 at 7:04 am said:
    
    lol 😆 They definitely meant Shadow’s full speed and he’s easily lightspeed. Just take a look at the end of Adventure 2 Battle. He’s keeping up with Sonic and they’re both desperately trying to stop the clock. It looked more like Shadow had just stabbed him in the back or shot him. Now you’re claiming that he’s not even supersonic without chaos control? Seriously, you need to play Adventure 2 Battle again to see his speed. Shadow wins this round via massive lightspeed bliz
  - jman on July 20, 2013 at 12:04 pm said:
    
    B-), bro they didn’t mean full speed and during that final battle sonic wasn’t giving his all, apparently he wasn’t desperate enough. He didn’t stab him and i didn’t claim he wasn’t supersonic, on the contrary. I said he is supersonic. Trust me i know shadow and i know that game.
  - dreager1 on July 20, 2013 at 3:54 pm said:
    
    Sonic was definitely giving it his all. The fate of the planet was at stake and he wasn’t going to hold back. Shadow would have crushed Sonic, if Sonic had held back. You said in your previous comment that he’s not supersonic except for when he uses Chaos Control. I’m saying that even without it, he’s massively lightspeed. Trust me, I’ve played Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (And the other Sonic games) for too long to mix that up. Shadow is about Sonic’s equal in speed
  - jman on July 20, 2013 at 11:08 pm said:
    
    Yes the fate of the world was at stake, but no sonic didn’t give it his all. His all is lightspeed, and shadow’s is supersonic so that means he held back. Apparently he can’t crush him. I don’t think i said that and if i did it was a mistake. Shadow is no where near massively lighspeed, and that’s a fact. Only using c.c. can he even dream of going that fast.
  - dreager1 on July 21, 2013 at 9:02 am said:
    
    Sonic was definitely giving it his all. Think about it like this, if your friends’ lives are on the line and the fate of billions of people…the choice is clear. You’re definitely going to be going all out, especially when the opponent is your near equal in speed and power. Well, you can always look for your comment in the thread. It was about 2-3 comments before this one. Well, either way Shadow’s massively FTL especially in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. Also, Shadow crushed him when they first fought and in Shadow The Hedgehog
  - jman on July 21, 2013 at 11:41 am said:
    
    You would think that but apparently sonic didn’t think he was that much of a threat, as he held back. Shadow is massively SUPERSONIC, not lightspeed, as seen in sab2 and every other game.. shadow didn’t beat sonic in shadow the hedgehog, i played that game, check again.
  - dreager1 on July 21, 2013 at 12:51 pm said:
    
    Sonic definitely didn’t hold back. He never said that he was holding back so why would you think that? Shadow is lightspeed as seen during SAB2. He’s always keeping up with Sonic and defeating him when necessary. As for Shadow The Hedgehog, I forgot which ending, but look for it in Youtube. He beat Sonic and Eggman teaming up
  - jman on July 21, 2013 at 2:56 pm said:
    
    I think that because sonic is proven lightspeed while shadow is stated to be supersonic, it’s the only explanation. Shadow is not lightspeed and has NEVER defeated sonic in a fight. Sonic has beaten him though. Those endings are hypothetical and are not all canon, I’m pretty sure that was one of them.
  - dreager1 on July 21, 2013 at 8:44 pm said:
    
    That just wouldn’t make sense. Stakes>>Facts. Since the earth was at stake, it makes much more sense to believe that Sonic was going at his top speed. Sega just hadn’t thought about Shadow’s top speed at the time. I’m pretty sure that Sega has listed Sonic as only being able to reach supersonic speeds in the past. So, they were at equal speeds at the time. It’s safe to say that they have both leveled up since then
  - jman on July 21, 2013 at 3:00 pm said:
    
    Btw, that was the dark ending :-, which is hypothetical.
  - dreager1 on July 21, 2013 at 8:45 pm said:
    
    True, but it’s still good props for Shadow
  - jman on July 9, 2013 at 10:18 pm said:
    
    Gtg ttyl.
  - dreager1 on July 9, 2013 at 10:21 pm said:
    
    See you next time
jman on July 8, 2013 at 6:12 pm said:

Ok, the only thing that sab2 proved was that sonic holds back sometimes. If shadow is stated to be a certain speed, and he is keeping up with someone who is faster, what is ybe only plausible outcome, sonic knew his speed and held back. Shadow is known top speed is supersonic (sonic wikia) and shadow stated himself that he was not as fast (sonic 2006 and sonic and the dark brotherhood). If he can realize his limits, why can’t you?

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- dreager1 on July 9, 2013 at 9:26 pm said:
  
  Sonic knows his speed, but he wouldn’t hold back with the fate of the earth at stake. Shadow was keeping up so that’s why he’s lightspeed. I’ll agree that he’s slightly slower than Sonic, but verrrrrrrrrry slightly. He’s still definitely lightspeed and his supersonic speeds are overwritten by his lightspeed ones
  
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Daniel Alvarez (@Destroyer_199) on July 21, 2013 at 2:58 pm said:

Shadow beats Knuckles cause he’s far more powerful and faster. Pretty simple match.

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- dreager1 on July 21, 2013 at 8:46 pm said:
  
  I agree that Shadow would definitely take the match. He is the Ultimate Life Form after all and he’s casually gone up against immensely powerful beings like Super Sonic and Mephiles
  
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  - jman on July 21, 2013 at 10:39 pm said:
    
    You guys are funny “far more powerful” than knuckles and “casually went up against… supersonic” he never went up against supersonic (unless you count sonic X :-D, which is not canon) and lost twice to regular sonic (sonic and the dark brotherhood and sonic generations). Knux has NEVER lost.
  - dreager1 on July 24, 2013 at 5:27 pm said:
    
    Well, I would agree with both statements. I was referring to Sonic X and while it may not be canon, it’s a decently accurate (Slightly decent anyway) assessment of their abilities. Maybe not in the grand scheme of things, but at least in the gaps between their powers. What do you mean that Knuckles has never lost to Sonic? Need I bring up Sonic the Hedgehog 3? Knuckles is tough, but there’s no way that he could defeat Sonic, let alone Shadow. The speed would provwe to be too much
- jman on July 24, 2013 at 10:55 am said:
  
  You can respond to the comment below, it is for you too afterall. You don’t get to make a bold statement like that and walk away unscathed ;-).
  
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  - Daniel Alvarez (@Destroyer_199) on July 25, 2013 at 1:56 am said:
    
    Whether or not they ‘had him win’ cause it’s his own game is beside the point, can’t deny what happened in-game. Knuckles has done absolutely nothing to show me that he’s even half a match for Shadow.
  - jman on July 25, 2013 at 7:18 am said:
    
    Well, when you don’t have your own game and the creators are trying to experiment with some emo character its a bit hard to get feats. However, I’ll give you what he has. Sonic adventure battle 2 took on boom boo who was one of the toughest bosses next to biolizard. Sonic heroes. Sonic heroes took on egg emperor with sonic and tails (which is still pretty good). Sonic and the dark brotherhood he defeated multiple members if shades clan who were excellent in h2h and had various weapons from leech blades to laser. He has taken on an army of robots without rest and was ok pretty much without fatigue. Now feats for his superforms emerald power- has the strengh of the super shield whis helped take down an opponent who would squash devil doom (had everyone’s powers) and his hyper for, which is as strong as hypersonic, which is stated to be sonics most powerful form so that alone puts him above supershadow in every way speed included. There is your feat
jman on July 21, 2013 at 10:31 pm said:

Again your ignorance shows young ones. You obviously know nothing about knuckles the echidna. I’ll give it to you play by play. Speed, shadow is stated in the sonic wikia (the OFFICIAL sonic website) that shadow is supeesonic speed, that is not fast enough to blitz knux, so this area isn’t one sided. Knuckles is durable enough to tank shadow punches without too much of a problem as he took on in the past an army of robots, shades clan, and can take much more, (as much as he can dish out). Because he can take shadow’s punches and won’t be speedblitzed he can put up his defenses (volcanic dunk sonic heroes and knuckle slam sonic rivals) which will keep shadow at bay (i wouldn’t bring up chaos control as he can use power flash, and chaos blast will be useless as ge can sense chaos energy and dodge/dig). Once at bay he can say the chant to stop the chaos emeralds and no more chaos powers for shadow. However knux has projectiles (thunder arrow sab2, he can summon meteors sonic battle, and he has drill bombs sonic battle) and will soon wear him down, plus knux fights better than him, he is a martial artist afterall. He can empower himself with the master emerald (emerald power) to that super shield on sonic heroeto beat him. Not to mention hyper knuckles who would end it all. This is far from a one sided battle, but whay can you expect from noobs :-‘.

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- dreager1 on July 24, 2013 at 5:24 pm said:
  
  Lol, I think that Knuckles is tough, but he won’t be able to win. I believe that most games list Sonic as only being in the supersonic speeds as well. They’ve just grown faster since then. We should be able to at least agree that Shadow is a lot faster than Knuckles right? Shadow would definitey speedblitz him and while Knuckles has great defense, Shadow can match him in that area. Beating an army of robots is hardly as impressive as falling from space and then surviving. Now that is what I call defense! Knuckles won’t have time to put up defenses and those wouldn’t stop his Chaos Spears. Knuckles can sense that Shadow will use them, but he won’t be fast enough to dodge. Knowing what will happen next is only half of the battle after all. Knuckles also won’t have time to say the chant and it probably wouldn’t work. Shadow is basically a living amplifier to the chaos emeralds and he unlocks their true power as he fights. Even if Knuckles “turned them off” Shadow would just turn them back on. Those projectiles that Knuckles has wouldn’t be enough to stop Shadow. Shadow is just too fast. This may not be a complete blow out, but I wouldn’t really call it a close battle either
  
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- Daniel Alvarez (@Destroyer_199) on July 24, 2013 at 5:25 pm said:
  
  Uh…my question is what feats does Knuckles have that Shadow doesn’t from the games? Cause at most Knuckles went hyper in Sonic & Knuckles. But Shadow in his super form took out Devil Doom, which beat Sonic and friends (including Knuckles) alone. Knuckles is good, but Shadow is just better.
  
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  - jman on July 24, 2013 at 10:59 pm said:
    
    Ok,the only reason shadiw beat him was because of the superform, plus the game was about him so of course they’ll make him win. I’ll skip to knux’s greatest feats. 1. Emerald power- it is that shield from sonic and sega all stars racing, which (according to a sonic website) is equal to the shield he had in sonic heroes, who helped take on metal overlord. And his trump card hyperknux- from sonic 3 and knuckles this form is an upgraded form of superknuckles and since hypersonic is stated to be “sonic’s most powerful form” and knux runs similar speeds to it (both make afterimages) he is faster, stronger, and better than super shadow. How’s that for a feat ;-).
  - jman on July 25, 2013 at 7:25 am said:
    
    Now did you get my feats? If you’re wondering what I’m talking about look on the site. I just posted some.
- Daniel Alvarez (@Destroyer_199) on July 26, 2013 at 9:42 am said:
  
  I’ve been to the Sonic Wiki several times. The truth of the matter is that Knuckles just isn’t as powerful.
  
  It’s like comparing Robin to Spider-Man. The former is kinda tough, sure, but against the big leaguer…not so much.
  
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  - jman on July 26, 2013 at 10:29 am said:
    
    If you’ve been there then id understand. Shadow’s powers center around chaos abilities, knux can take that away. I haven’t seen you refute my arguement yet so I’m thinking that you being a fanboy is clouding your judgement. I just mentioned the most powerful form know to the sonic team and you still say shadow, why?
  - Daniel Alvarez (@Destroyer_199) on July 28, 2013 at 4:53 pm said:
    
    It’s like a battle between Godzilla and Gamera.
    
    Gamera is a very tough monster, but Godzilla outclasses him in power, strength, and durability. It’s the same thing with Shadow and Knuckles. His best super form just can’t match what Shadow can dish out.
  - jman on July 28, 2013 at 6:31 pm said:
    
    Sorry i replied on this one, the other wouldn’t let me. And it’s nothing like that one sided match, and knux is more durable, powerful, better martial arts skills, and when he shuts off the emeralds, he will have more projectiles. His superforms are really just overkill as the only advantage shadow has is speed, which won’t save him.
  - dreager1 on July 28, 2013 at 7:14 pm said:
    
    Not just speed. Shadow’s other advantages include skill and finesse. One could argue that Knuckles’ only advantage is power and it’s not much of a difference since Shadow has displayed some pretty decent super strength. Knuckles won’t have time to use the chant and it wouldn’t work anyway. Shadow is just 😎 too cool and fast to lose
  - jman on July 28, 2013 at 7:27 pm said:
    
    No, knux (unlike shad) has many advantages. Power (which far outclasses shadow’s), fighting style, durability, energy (thunder arrow, two barriers knuckle slam and volcanic dunk, chaos energy absorbtion (much like shadow), superior superform, etc.
  - dreager1 on July 28, 2013 at 7:36 pm said:
    
    Knuckles’ power is decent, but not extremely impressive. Shadow’s durability is much better as seen in the ending for SA2B. Chaos Spear>Thunder Arrow. Chaos Control>Power Flash. Shadow Punch>Knuckle Slam. Homing Attack>Volcanic Dunk. Chaos Blast>Barriers. Super Shadow>Hyper Knuckles. Not sure where you’re going with this. Shadow is basically superior in just about every way. He is the Ultimate Life Form after all
  - jman on July 28, 2013 at 7:48 pm said:
    
    The superform took most of the force on that, so no he’s more durable. Chaos spear= thunder arrow at best thunder arrow is shown to be quicker. Chaos control= powerflash, they both do the same thing, state proof. Shadow punch < knuckle slam it is a barrier after all :-,. Volcanic dunksupershadow, he is stronger, faster (on par with hypersonic who is stated to be sonics most powerful form, so he takes away shadows one advantage). If you don’t see then you need to do what i call, research :-P.
  - dreager1 on July 28, 2013 at 7:56 pm said:
    
    I wouldn’t say so. He was getting ready to revert back to his normal form when he still had a ways to go. Shadow is much more durable than Knuckles. Chaos Spear is far stronger and it almost did some decent damage to Super Sonic. (Sonic X) Chaos Control>>>Power Flash. Cmon, that’s basically a given. Shadow Punch>Slam. A punch is always a lot more effective in a fight. He’s not even on par with Super Sonic, let alone Hyper Sonic 😮 Also, Super Sonic>>>Hyper Sonic. Trust me, I’ve done the research. I recommend checking out the SA2B cutscenes again 😎
  - jman on July 28, 2013 at 8:09 pm said:
    
    I don’t think so, he was pretty far down when it finally did go off. He’s not more durable. Chaos spear is not stronger and that feat was from sonic x aka non canon. Chaos control = powerflash, that’s a given. Slomo knuckle slam is when he punches the air and a fire barrier surronds him, you really need to do your research. You expect me to trust you with hyperknuckles vs supershadow when you didn’t even know what knuckle slam was? I don’t think so, do more research. It states hyoersonic is his most powerful form and since hyperknuckles is around his speed (shown on sonic 3 and knuckles) he> supershadow.
  - dreager1 on July 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm said:
    
    I dunno about that. Trust me, Knuckles isn’t topping that feat. Chaos Spear is definitely stronger and Sonic X may not be canon, but it can be accurate sometimes. Power Flash is all right, but it’s really a little gimick they made for multiplayer. Chaos Control is the real deal. It’s much more effective. Dude, you’ve mentioned the Knuckles Slam quite a few times and already told me what it is. I still say that Shadow’s punch is far more effective. Hyper Knuckles isn’t even close to Sonic speed……Shadow>>>>>Knuckles. Super Shadow>>>>>Hyper Knuckles I recommend playing Shadow The Hedgehog again….all endings.
  - jman on July 28, 2013 at 8:49 pm said:
    
    Knuckles already did, “can dish out as much as he can take” and if you know knuckles you would agrer. Well even if it was canon it doesn’t count so no, it’s not a feat and thunder arroe is better. Doesn’t matter if it was just made for multiplayer, it is a feat he did, so it counts and equals c.c. a punch v.s a fire barrier…. no offense but that’s stupid and a weak comeback. And according to the game he is and he runs at comparable speeds to hypersonic, who is the best and strongest form sonic has. I’ve played them all (one he saves the day with sonic, teo he guards space colony ark, 3 he is an android, 4he dogs himself and vector tries to comfort him, 5 he beats sonic (which is hypothetical and not true). I know about him , maybe you need to research knux, hyperknux, his moves, etc. I am gonna let you do that and hopefully tomorrow you’ll have a more info on him.
dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 10:31 am said:

Knuckles is powerful, but he’s just no match for Shadow. Knuckles won’t be able to take his Chaos powers away and Shadow’s speed will be the end of him. Shadow survived falling from space and he took on Devil Doom. I don’t think Knuckles has anything that can top that

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- jman on July 26, 2013 at 10:39 am said:
  
  No match huh, bold statement bro. Knuckles can take his abilities away (the servers are the 7 chaos, etc) and shadow doesn’t have the speed to do anything about it. He’ll get some licks in but knux will finish it thanks to his.chants. falling from space is nice, but he was in superform for some of that and he defeated metal overlord, he wasn’t alone but metal overlord was much stronger than devil doom.
  
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  - dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 10:41 am said:
    
    Metal Overload doesn’t count at all. Sonic did 90% of the work in that battle. Tails and Knuckles were there, but just for moral support. (Like Omega and Rouge were for Shadow) Do you know how long it takes Knuckles to say that? Also, it may turn off the Chaos Emeralds, but Shadow is master over them and would turn them back on. Think of him as a living conductor. Shadow’s way faster than Knuckles and he could easily speedblitz him. Remember Sonic X? Falling from space is still an ultimate feat and one that exceeds Knuckles’ defense capabilities
  - jman on July 26, 2013 at 10:50 am said:
    
    No, they all did equal work, they all had part that they needed a teammate and they all did that team blast. So that’s not true. The ground people were for support, not them. And no the master emerald is the master if them, shadow can’t “turn them back on” and has Never been shown to do so or even stated to. He uses their energy, if they have no energy he’s screwed. Knux has defense to say the chant so shadow will be powerless. Sonic X isn’t canon. Emeralds get cut off, knux beat metal overlord, knux has defenses.
  - dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 10:55 am said:
    
    How do you figure that? Sonic didn’t need them at all, but they just came along for the ride. Super Sonic’s speed and incredible power is all that he needed. Do you think Shadow needed his partners to take on Metal Madness? They were there to help, but he didn’t need them at all. He’s fought bigger (The BioLizard) and won. The Master Emerald is tough, but the Chaos Emeralds counteract it’s power. Shadow amplifies their abilities and uses them to their full extent. It’s why he can wield their power. Knuckles won’t be taking that away from him, and I still don’t believe that the chant works. Knuckles doesn’t have enough defense to stop Shadow’s impressive onslaught and would definitely go down. Knuckles hardly beat Metal Overlord, without Sonic he’d be dead. At least Shadow was able to win on his own. Shadow is the Ultimate Life Form and definitely wins this round
  - jman on July 26, 2013 at 11:10 am said:
    
    They didn’t “come along for the ride”, he genuinely needed them, trust me if he didn’t they wouldn’t be there and they wouldn’t be able to block some of metal overlords attacks, that’s proof. And apparently shadow did, remember they had only things a certain type could hit red= power speed= blue, etc. Where did you get that!? Shadow doesn’t amplify anything, that’s a lie! He uses it, that’s all! Only the m.e. can amplify them, and take it away, whi has done both, shadow has done neither. Knux could have taken him and did major damage with his attacks, something shadow couldn’t do, knux for the win.
  - dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 11:13 am said:
    
    They came along because they wanted to gain unlimited power and try to be heroes. Sonic could have stopped them from coming, but that would have been a little mean. They blocked some hits, but Sonic would have just dodged them if he was on his own. Shadow didn’t need his partners and the colors were gameplay mechanics. Shadow unlocks the powers of the chaos emeralds to use his abilities. It’s like how Sonic had to master his heart and soul to use the Chaos Emeralds in the final levels of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. Metal Overload would have slaughtered Knuckles and Shadow would do better. Knuckles won’t be able to say the chant and I still don’t believe that it would take away the chaos energies. Shadow is too fast and speedblitzes for the win.
  - jman on July 26, 2013 at 11:27 am said:
    
    No, they had NOTHING to do with being transformed, sonic sprung it on them, hence their surprised look. So he did need them. Apparently sonic couldn’t have dodged them and the colors may not have been game mechanic, he had all of their powers afterall. He trained his hear to tap into thier power, if there is no power to tap into then he’s screwed, which he is. Knux would have taken out m.o. and it would have been shadow who would be slaughtered. The chant can and has (sonic adventure battle 2 for the last time!!!) Stopped them and knux has defenses to stop shad. He looses due to lack of chaos energy.
  - dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 11:32 am said:
    
    No, the light enveloped all of them, but Sonic didn’t make that happen. They just happened to be near him when the Chaos Emeralds appeared. They always circle the person that they are giving their powers too, and Knuckles/Tails just happened to be inside the circle. Sonic could have dodged them and the colors were gameplay mechanics. Knuckles would have died instantly and Shadow could hold his own since he’s Sonic’s equal in speed and fighting ability. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle didn’t stop anything. The Chaos Emeralds gave Sonic and Shadow their energy after that soooo…Chaos Emeralds>>>>Chant. Knuckles defense isn’t as good as Shadow’s and he gets stopped via speedbltiz and Chaos Abilities. Shadow takes this round
  - jman on July 26, 2013 at 11:57 am said:
    
    No, sonic clearly transferred his energy to their spheres, didn’t you see his hands? I can look again but I’m sure he did that. Apparently be couldn’t dodge them and it may/ may not be. I just know shadow needed help. Knux apparently could hold his own and shadow equals him in skill not speed, get that straightened out. No, apparently he had them get cut back on, so no it’s still stands. His defense is enough to keep him back and shad can’t spoedblitz him. Knux wins
  - dreager1 on July 26, 2013 at 5:29 pm said:
    
    Like I said, they came along for the ride. Sonic’s power was so overwhelming that parts of it formed barriers around Tails and Knuckles. Sonic can dodge just about anything and let’s not forget…he’s Sonic! Knuckles and Tails didn’t help at all, and without Sonic…I think they’d be dead. Shadow could hold his own, but not Knuckles. Shadow easily surpasses him in both skill and speed. Even in physical power, Shadow can hold his own against Knuckles. The chant doesn’t stand, the Chaos Emeralds are too powerful. Knuckles doesn’t have enough defense and he’d get speedblitzed. Shadow takes this round
  - jman on August 6, 2013 at 10:24 am said:
    
    Hey, no one responded to my counter…
  - dreager1 on August 6, 2013 at 9:42 pm said:
    
    Forgot about that one…I’ll have a response by tomorrow
  - jman on August 6, 2013 at 9:47 pm said:
    
    Oh cool. Sorry about being so aggresive about this i am just a die hard knux fan and people keep downplaying him. I just want to be heard, thanks for trying.
  - dreager1 on August 6, 2013 at 9:57 pm said:
    
    No prob, I’m always up for a debate. Knuckles is a tough Sonic character, I can agree to that
  - jman on August 6, 2013 at 10:05 pm said:
    
    Knux is def one of the best, arguably the best, and thanks. Idk if i want to keep discussing this though because after a while we keep running into the same problem and it gets tedious. Kind of like king dedede vs king caesar, (which really shouldn’t have been taken seriously) neither one of us will budge so I’ll move on to another fight.
  - dreager1 on August 6, 2013 at 10:45 pm said:
    
    Yeah, he’s one tough customer! Yeah, we can let the debate die down. I think Shadow would win, You think Knuckles would win. In the end, we made our cases and tried our best. (I agree, KD vs KC wasn’t too close 😎 ) I wonder which fight you’ll go for next
  - jman on August 6, 2013 at 10:50 pm said:
    
    Lol, I’ll call it a draw, (though me and knux know the real winner B-). And how about cosmoman vs gravity man!!!!
  - dreager1 on August 7, 2013 at 7:42 am said:
    
    That’s true 😉 Gravityman vs Cosmoman Accepted! I’ll have the match up on Thursday
  - jman on August 7, 2013 at 9:30 am said:
    
    Yes! Thanks!
sonic dash hack on April 11, 2014 at 8:31 am said:

I believe what you wrote made a ton of sense. But, what about this?
what if you typed a catchier post title?

I mean, I don’t wish to tell you how to run your blog, however suppose
you added a post title that makes people desire more?
I mean Shadow vs Knuckles | DReager1’s Blog is
kinda boring. You might glance at Yahoo’s front page and watch how
they write news titles to get people to click. You might
add a video or a picture or two to get people excited about everything’ve got to say.
In my opinion, it might bring your posts a little bit more
interesting.

Reply ↓
- dreager1 on April 12, 2014 at 3:27 pm said:
  
  Well, the battles are just epic to write that way. I could write something different for all of the titles, but this seems to be the best format. A classic Vs title, straight to the point. It’s like with my reviews, I just write the title of the film and then add review to the end. I mainly stick with the traditional version, still always glad to hear ideas on how I can improve the blog
  
  Reply ↓