Suggested by Destroyer Titanosaurus is absolutely massive. They don’t call him a Kaiju for nothing after all and the way that he soars above everyone else is really quite impressive. This is absolutely the kind of guy that you don’t want to mess with. Still, he isn’t very fast and I don’t see him being able to do much of anything to Toadman. The two fighters are just in different leagues here and their abilities are too far apart even if Titanosaurus could potentially win with a strike or two, those hits just won’t happen. Toadman wins.
Update 1/18/2023: Toadman’s attack strategies and tactics have all been debunked to the point where they would not be enough to win. Titanosaurus can win after a long battle of attrition and will ultimately have enough left in the tank to take Toadman out. Titanosaurus wins.
DReager1.com 
So the robot who’s only two attacks consist of simply jumping and flinging acid rain at someone is going to beat a Kaiju? Yeah no, Toadman is known as one of the most pathetically easy bosses in Megaman for a reason Dreager. His potential damage is quite limited against such a massive and strong creature. The only reason Godzilla was able to beat him is because he was getting pumped with sonic waves which are supposed to directly weaken him. But this doesn’t even matter because you utilize composites and in his video game form he’s able to use Sonic Waves himself with zero problem. So you don’t even need to worry about directly hitting Toadman. Titanosaurus can simply blast him with these waves until it’s over.
Unless you can show convincingly that this acid rain could do significant damage against a large and physically powerful Kaiju then this is completely Titanosaurus’ battle to win.
I know what you mean but the main issue here is that Titanosauru sis too slow. Even with the sonic waves that Titanosaurus has got, good luck landing a direct hit with those. The video game does give him a good boost since I also like the heat ray but I don’t think that would put him as a tough competitor for Toadman. Toadman’s electric discs will just be too much for the guy and that’ll be game over for him. The power of a Kaiju won’t be enough
So looking further into this I noticed that you’re using a completely different character than the actual Toadman. It’s Toadman.exe, which makes things confusing. This is an entirely different character that is completely unrelated to the original Toadman in both looks, origin and powers. It would probably be better if you made that distinction as to not mix the characters up.
Be that as it may, I still don’t think Toadman can win this. He may not be going up against electric attacks on the daily, but he can still take an beating. He can tank hurricane force winds, survive a skyscraper being dropped on top of him and quickly recovered from a fierce bite from Godzilla.And a lot of his effectiveness is based upon having the boss room he does. It’s a small area with plenty of water spaces already available. Unless the battle is specifically taking place there than it’s going to be much more difficult. Titanosaurus has nothing stopping him from spamming sonic waves (via the video game) and tail gusts that can reach speeds of 320 meters per second which is about 715 MPH. Easily double the speeds of the fastest tornados in documented history. It easily obliterates buildings and knocks Godzilla back. There’s no way Toadman.exe is just going to simply avoid that via jumping all over the place. I think Titanosaurus can stick it out long enough to take this.
Oh yeah to differentiate I use Toad Man for the classic version and then Toadman for exe. That’s how I’ve styled all of the Megaman characters from classic and Battle Network although I see how it can be confusing.
Toadman’s still got the speed advantage here which is absolutely massive. Titanosaurus can definitely spam his sonic abilities and cause a lot of pressure there but even then that will not be enough to hit Toadman. As for the gusts of wind, I can see that pushing Toadman back a bit and slowing him down but not really dealing any actual damage. The fight may take a while but his thunder attacks should take in the win
I really don’t care about speed here because the extent of Toadman’s speed mostly seems to be jumping in the same area a bunch of times, with nothing huge in terms of speed. You’ve got to show me this ridiculous speed you’re claiming for Toadman because given the type of game he’s in those feats are harder to come by. And you seem to be dead set on believing that Titanosaurus needs to land a direct hit. He’s a massive sonic wave beam that’s much bigger than Toadman.A beam like that also isn’t just going to affect the precise area it hits, as it will likely send shockwaves all around it. And your justification for the gusts of wind not helping is utterly ridiculous. These gusts can easily wreck buildings at speeds twice as fast as the fastests tornado in recorded history. Are you seriously telling me that you actually believe this will do zero damage to Toadman? A robot that doesn’t show any sort of significant durability since his gimmick is being able to use water tiles and electricity? I’m sorry but this justification for Toadman winning is completely lacking.
Check this out
You’re right that it’s hard to calc Toadman in the games and it’s why he is one of the weakest EXE characters by default. The manga and anime are really the reasons why characters like Megaman and Bass are even above Goku and Superman. Without that, Toadman is at a lower level but he is still fast enough to move around quickly and fire off his attacks. He also had a brief skirmish in the anime although it didn’t help a lot.
Yeah the wind would only end up pushing Toadman away but it won’t help him. The issue with the buildings is that they can’t move but with Toadman he can ride with the wind and get out of the main field of effect. For the laser, it might have a bit of an effect if you’re close but 9 times out of 10 if you can avoid the actual blast part then you’re good.
Titanosaurus will also be deeply troubled by the various elemental attacks coming his way. That will really end up hurting him the most. How do you even fight back against those kind of techniques? Titanosaurus is such a big target that he can’t dodge any of them
So with the YT video you’ve pretty much shown exactly what i’ve described. Toadman’s level of mobility is pretty much limited to moving in the same two areas again and again. And to say this is enough to avoid all the attacks of Titanosaurus is laughable. If Toadman doesn’t have the feats to even come close to his Megaman brethren then he’s screwed here. If the feats aren’t there then I’m not going to count them per the rules of this blog. And I must apologize beforehand because I want to take this a little bit seriously, but I actually laughed out loud when you said Toadman could simply ride with the 700 mph wind and get out of the field of effect with no problem. When has Toadman ever demonstrated he’s even remotely capable of this? Again you yourself have admitted that his power level and feats are very limited, so I’m struggling to understand why you’re so dedicated to this point. Titanosaurus can easily obliterate buildings with his tail gusts You haven’t shown that Toadman has demonstrated that he can simply tank this or that he can “ride with the wind” and get out of the way. So until you do that, I’m going to treat this as if Toadman cannot simply avoid or tank such devastating winds. If Titanosaurus whips out a tail gust and it hits the general area of Toadman, he’s going to feel the pain (Or whatever equivalent robots have in Megaman). I’ll give up the sonic beam point since it isn’t as crucial as the tail gusts
The electric attacks are literally thing that really has any merit to it, since Titanosaurus isn’t shown going up against all sorts of elemental attacks. And at lot of its usefulness is dependent on the opponent being on a water tile. Titanosaurus can easily just jump super high to get away from Toadman and any water tiles he might be able to make. And given the general toughness, durability and size of Kaijus I believe it would take a lot more hits than usual for Toadman to take Titanosaurus down. Whereas with the power of the gusts I don’t think it’ll take nearly as long. One or two gusts at max to take Toadman down. Especially since again Toadman doesn’t really demonstrate a lot of durability and is definitely on the lower end of Megaman feats (by your own admission). Still unconvinced that Toadman has enough to win.
The anime helps with the movement part though. We see that he can move normally like in his fight with Numberman and things definitely got really interesting there. Lets just say that nobody wants to mess with Toadman. He’s still fast enough to dodge the attacks. Titanosaurus is fairly slow even for a Kaiju so by the time he turns to strike or fire off a blast then Toadman would already be outside his field of vision.
I would stand by my saying that Toadman is fairly weak and slow compared to the other Megaman characters. That said, it’s still enough to take out most Kaiju. For the wind factor, it’s not like a wind blade where it automatically cuts. It crushes buildings because they can’t move. Similar to how a direct gust of air will blow away books but if you put a gerbil there it will be able to hang on. Your weight resistance and gravity will be enough to fight back. No reason why Toadman can’t just go with the flow and then it won’t really be like a true attack.
As for the electricity, from the anime he doesn’t need the water tiles for them. He just shoots out the electric bolts himself so that helps since he can just keep on pelting Titanosaurus the whole time. There’s just not much the Kaiju would be able to do to get out of the way so he would just be getting peppered throughout the entire fight. Titanosaurus isn’t a big thinker either so it’ll be hard for him to even know what to do in this situation.
“The anime helps with the movement part though. We see that he can move normally like in his fight with Numberman and things definitely got really interesting there. Lets just say that nobody wants to mess with Toadman. He’s still fast enough to dodge the attacks. Titanosaurus is fairly slow even for a Kaiju so by the time he turns to strike or fire off a blast then Toadman would already be outside his field of vision”
Provide the video then, and I’ll see if it’s convincing or not. Not engaging this point until that condition is met
“I would stand by my saying that Toadman is fairly weak and slow compared to the other Megaman characters. That said, it’s still enough to take out most Kaiju. For the wind factor, it’s not like a wind blade where it automatically cuts. It crushes buildings because they can’t move. Similar to how a direct gust of air will blow away books but if you put a gerbil there it will be able to hang on. Your weight resistance and gravity will be enough to fight back. No reason why Toadman can’t just go with the flow and then it won’t really be like a true attack.”
This point is flat out bullshit. I’m sorry Dreager but you’ve repeated this point multiple times and at this point I’m not having it. You have yet to show how Toadman is able to do this in any capacity. This isn’t like a normal gale force wind, it’s far beyond any recorded wind on Earth. Just because Toadman isn’t an inanimate object doesn’t mean he’s not going to get crushed or seriously injured.
And I think your gerbil example actually works against you here. There’s going to be a point where any gust of air I throw at the gerbil will blow both it and the books all over the place, and none of its gravity or weight resistance is going to save it. If I stick a massive fan that generates large amounts of power, then the gerbil’s going to get thrown backwards and it won’t even be able to register enough to fight back. Again this is double the fastest recorded tornado in recorded history speeds here. Toadman’s not going to have much of a chance to react let alone go with the flow unless you can demonstrate there’s a reason he should be able to handle that long enough to “go with the flow”
“As for the electricity, from the anime he doesn’t need the water tiles for them. He just shoots out the electric bolts himself so that helps since he can just keep on pelting Titanosaurus the whole time. There’s just not much the Kaiju would be able to do to get out of the way so he would just be getting peppered throughout the entire fight. Titanosaurus isn’t a big thinker either so it’ll be hard for him to even know what to do in this situation.”
Ok so he can shoot out electric bolts. I’m still of the opinion that Titanosaurus can tank them for quite a while given general Kaiju toughness and durability. So i’m not heavily concerned about speed here, and given the size disparity here, it’ll generally be more difficult for Toadman to stay out of Titanosaurus’ line of sight. And as for not being a big thinker? Toadman’s attacks are mostly just spamming electric attacks and jumping around. Titanosaurus doesn’t need to be a supergenius to figure that out. Still not convinced.
Sure, I got the link for the episode. It’s episode 30 of the series “Net City”. Of course be cautioned that the link does have a lot of pop ups so make sure that your browser is secure:
https://gogoanime.be/watch/megaman-nt-warrior-dub-JNy-episode-30/
Alternately there are other sources to find this at but this is a direct link at least. The fight starts at 8:50. You can see from the fight that not only can Toadman move normally but incredibly fast on that levitating platform of his. He was able to dodge multiple attacks at once and he can also spam the electric music note blasts. That means he will be hitting Titanosaurus like a gatling gun the whole time and those attacks will leave their mark.
In a way the anime also helps his overall attack power compared to the games as well as we see the true force of the explosion. Titanosaurus can tank that for a while but the attacks will certainly keep him off balance and disoriented. The speed advantage makes things even worse for Titanosaurus since he’s a huge target and can’t dodge anything but Toadman will be hitting him at will. That’s what will make things very difficult for him here.
Navi’s don’t get affected by the elements like that. In the video you see that they’re using water and fire towers but aren’t getting pushed back or anything like that. All the air is going to do is get Toadman mad. Throw in the fact that he was moving so quickly and his momentum will be able to cancel out the wind and keep him in the flow. Maybe not ride it so much as just endure it and keep up his attacks.
Really the turning point in this fight is that Titanosaurus has no way to reliably hit Toadman and that’s going to come back to haunt him.
Ok so I’m glad you put forth the video, but it again works against you. It’s quite frankly a pathetic fight that convinces me even more that Toadman isn’t winning this. Not only does Toadman require its operator to input chips to do anything, it was going up against an opponent that was sitting on his ass and worrying about how rare his chips are before he uses them. That was a major reason why Toadman was able to win so easily.
“The fight starts at 8:50. You can see from the fight that not only can Toadman move normally but incredibly fast on that levitating platform of his. He was able to dodge multiple attacks at once and he can also spam the electric music note blasts. That means he will be hitting Titanosaurus like a gatling gun the whole time and those attacks will leave their mark.”
He was able to dodge direct attacks, but it’s clear that any sort of tail wind attack from Titanosarus isn’t nearly as direct, so it’ll be much harder for him to dodge. I’ll get into the fire tower later, but that little turret was even less applicable here. The shots were much smaller and less powerful, and that’s why Toadman was able to dodge them. And the attack power of those notes was frankly sad. It didn’t even inflict any noticeable damage, simply knocking Numberman over. And the electric aspect of it is honestly barely noticeable as well. It didn’t affect Numberman in any meaningful way, he just kept trucking along until his operator got distracted. Those notes aren’t doing a damn thing against a creature as massive and durable as Titanosaurus.
“In a way the anime also helps his overall attack power compared to the games as well as we see the true force of the explosion. Titanosaurus can tank that for a while but the attacks will certainly keep him off balance and disoriented. The speed advantage makes things even worse for Titanosaurus since he’s a huge target and can’t dodge anything but Toadman will be hitting him at will. That’s what will make things very difficult for him here.”
We see the force of an explosion against a far smaller and far less physically enhanced opponent. At least from what you’ve shown from this video that is. His speed and mobility is far less impressive when you actually stop for a second and see the types of attacks he went against with Numberman. Numberman is not at all equivalent to Titanosaurus in size, physicality, and attack type and attack power. They’re simply not on the same level.
“Navi’s don’t get affected by the elements like that. In the video you see that they’re using water and fire towers but aren’t getting pushed back or anything like that. All the air is going to do is get Toadman mad. Throw in the fact that he was moving so quickly and his momentum will be able to cancel out the wind and keep him in the flow. Maybe not ride it so much as just endure it and keep up his attacks”
It does get affected by the elements like that because it’s also a Navi attack and a water tower that directly counters fire. Of course its just going to cancel it out. And furthermore that fire tower was moving in a linear direction and was kind of slow (at least compared to the speeds I was talking about and thin compared to any wind attack that would come from Titanosaurus). And Titanosarus isn’t a Navi, so he’s not using the same type of elemental attacks. So I think your point about Navi and the elements is a moot one. Not only am I STILL not convinced, but you’ve pretty much busted out a Trojan Horse on yourself.
For the elemental attacks, I get how they cancelled out but you have to admit that it was an impressive defensive showing for the characters to not even react. It shows that they are quite sturdy and can’t be moved so easily. Even I was touched for a moment there because you don’t always see that kind of thing. I think it shows that they can reasonably take on a wind attack. I still say Toadman could just ride with it.
Numberman isn’t as strong as Titanosaurus but we see that Toadman can move around at a pretty good speed while on his little disc/board thing. This can even rise up in the air a bit so that gives him yet another way to dodge Titanosaurus’ attacks. I don’t see any way for the kaiju to counter attack tbh and that’s why he will fall. There just isn’t anything that Titanosaurus can do to win in this round. It’s game over for him.
Now, the notes may not be supremely powerful but I don’t think Toadman’s beating this Kaiju in a few shots. The most important part here was that he could completely spam them which gives him a massive edge in a fight. Titanosaurus will gradually be taking damage which will also slow him down and may even weaken his attacks. Toadman can keep dodging thanks to the speed we saw.
While his fight may have been an easy one to win, I would say that Toadman still impressed me overall in the anime more so than in the manga. The sheer mobility and spamming of his attacks means that Titanosaurus is in for a tough time. His durability will keep him in the game for a while but he still has no way to counter attack. The sheer wind may slow Toadman down but it won’t knock him off his board or anything like that and there’s no way to hit him with a direct shot
Kind of odd but your comment came through the email notification but never appeared on the site. Pasting it below so I can reply to it:
“”For the elemental attacks, I get how they cancelled out but you have to admit that it was an impressive defensive showing for the characters to not even react. It shows that they are quite sturdy and can’t be moved so easily. Even I was touched for a moment there because you don’t always see that kind of thing. I think it shows that they can reasonably take on a wind attack. I still say Toadman could just ride with it.”
It’s really not, since it wasn’t even an example of the characters themselves tanking those attacks, it was just the elemental attacks knocking into each other. It doesn’t show that either of the actual characters can tank something like that. Hell it’s not even the same type of attack as Titanosarus’ wind attacks. It’s absolute bullshit to use this as a justification for Toadman simply riding with said wind attacks. Stop using this point, it will be ignored the next time you do. You are incapable of proving that it’s applicable for this battle because the evidence simply isn’t there.
“Numberman isn’t as strong as Titanosaurus but we see that Toadman can move around at a pretty good speed while on his little disc/board thing. This can even rise up in the air a bit so that gives him yet another way to dodge Titanosaurus’ attacks. I don’t see any way for the kaiju to counter attack tbh and that’s why he will fall. There just isn’t anything that Titanosaurus can do to win in this round. It’s game over for him.”
Do you honestly believe that Toadman can hold up to such destructive winds even while riding the disc/board thing? When he hasn’t at all been shown to hold up against such and attack? It’s honestly getting to a delusional point here Dreager. Him flying on a hoverboard isn’t going to save him from the wind attacks and you still have yet to prove anything even close to that. Again, the evidence simply isn’t there.
“Now, the notes may not be supremely powerful but I don’t think Toadman’s beating this Kaiju in a few shots. The most important part here was that he could completely spam them which gives him a massive edge in a fight. Titanosaurus will gradually be taking damage which will also slow him down and may even weaken his attacks. Toadman can keep dodging thanks to the speed we saw.”
The point isn’t that they aren’t supremely powerful Dreager,it’s that they did NO LASTING DAMAGE TO NUMBERMAN. Nothing whatsoever, nada, zilch. The most they did was momentarily make him stumble. He got right back up and went right back to fighting. And as i’ve said before, Numberman is simply not on Titanosaurus’ level physically. It’s really not even close in that regard. They’re going to be like throwing toothpicks at a brick wall. Theoretically you could EVENTUALLY get through, but it would take so ridiculously long that it isn’t worth it. And it will be harder to dodge and win through speed due to the fact that A) Titanosaurus is much bigger than Numberman and B) his tail wind attacks are far less direct than Numberman. His speed simply isn’t good enough here Dreager, accept it. Nothing you’re listing here is remotely comparable, please give more and better evidence if you want to convince me that Toadman’s winning here. This is frankly embarrassing at this point.
“While his fight may have been an easy one to win, I would say that Toadman still impressed me overall in the anime more so than in the manga. The sheer mobility and spamming of his attacks means that Titanosaurus is in for a tough time. His durability will keep him in the game for a while but he still has no way to counter attack. The sheer wind may slow Toadman down but it won’t knock him off his board or anything like that and there’s no way to hit him with a direct shot”
He’s not in for a tough time if Toadman’s attacks are so pathetically weak against him that any mobility/spamming is essentially useless.And given the lack of true damage on Numberman it’s clear that’s the case. I’ve already discussed how powerful Titanosaurus’ tail wind attack is and that it’s an INDIRECT attack (since you mentioned there’s not way to him with a direct shot) so it’ll be much harder for Toadman to adapt. And again you still have yet to prove that it’ll simply slow him down instead of knocking him off the board. Still unimpressed, still unconvinced.
You can keep repeating the same points and get refuted again and again, attempt to provide new evidence, or concede here. I will make this very clear to you.I am not at all convinced based on these points or by the video you’ve provided. You’re going to need something more concrete to do that. And I don’t think you have that so I don’t know what to tell you. Try again, do better.”
*End Comment* *Insert Response*
First for the elemental attacks, imagine a fire tornado and water tornado both hitting each other and you’re pretty close by. Wouldn’t you get blown away? That’s why it was impressive that Toadman wasn’t knocked out or even pushed back. That should hold true even for a powerful wind attack.
As for the airboard point, the reason why this clinches the win for Toadman is because he can just get out of the area at any point. Wind incoming? Toadman can fly above it and just keep it moving. This makes him far too agile and versatile to ever get hit. Titanosaurus doesn’t have much speed and so the wind is really his only shot but that’s not nearly enough here. Toadman can just get high and drop notes on Titanosaurus from above.
The notes may not have knocked out Numberman but you have to remember that all netnavi’s are fairly durable to an extent. Even Greenman was able to tank a hit from Gutsman. Numberman has gone up against Bowlingman and a few others and stayed in the game. It’s that cybernetic/robotic presence which ensures they are always a threat. You just have to trust me on this one when I say that these guys are too powerful to overlook. The notes don’t have to take Titanosaurus down too quicky but did you see the speed at which Toadman was spamming them? Imagine a constant barrage with dozens of blasts hitting you every minute. The sheer velocity and impact would be dealing absolutely massive damage by the end.
The thing about providing new evidence is that Toadman is an obscure character who has not appeared very much. This was his only fight in the anime and his boss fight in the games is the only thing he’s got there. So we’re dealing with a limited amount of different scenes to show but at the same time I would say that what we have here is already enough. We’ve established that the wind can’t keep up with Toadman’s speed and also that Titanosaurus has no way of counter attacking. Mix that in with how Toadman can endlessly shoot off those notes and Titanosaurus is going down hard
“First for the elemental attacks, imagine a fire tornado and water tornado both hitting each other and you’re pretty close by. Wouldn’t you get blown away? That’s why it was impressive that Toadman wasn’t knocked out or even pushed back. That should hold true even for a powerful wind attack.”
It’s not going to hold true for the wind attack. It’s moving with much more speed and velocity that simply isn’t shown from the tornadoes so it isn’t applicable here. And all the forces isn’t being directed at Toadman since the two are meeting in the middle, preventing the full force of the blast from hitting Toadman. That is not comparable to a full wind blast moving much faster and with more destructive force. It simply isn’t and you should know that Dreager.
“As for the airboard point, the reason why this clinches the win for Toadman is because he can just get out of the area at any point. Wind incoming? Toadman can fly above it and just keep it moving. This makes him far too agile and versatile to ever get hit. Titanosaurus doesn’t have much speed and so the wind is really his only shot but that’s not nearly enough here. Toadman can just get high and drop notes on Titanosaurus from above.”
Again the wind blasts are way faster and more destructive than anything you’ve shown Toadman dealing with. So it’s cool that he can fly and stuff, but it’s simply not comparable. And those notes which I’ll get into later are pitifully weak and not enough to take Titanosaurus down. You are asserting capabilities of the airboard that have not been shown to the degree required here. Your point isn’t applicable here.
“The notes may not have knocked out Numberman but you have to remember that all netnavi’s are fairly durable to an extent. Even Greenman was able to tank a hit from Gutsman. Numberman has gone up against Bowlingman and a few others and stayed in the game. It’s that cybernetic/robotic presence which ensures they are always a threat. You just have to trust me on this one when I say that these guys are too powerful to overlook. The notes don’t have to take Titanosaurus down too quicky but did you see the speed at which Toadman was spamming them? Imagine a constant barrage with dozens of blasts hitting you every minute. The sheer velocity and impact would be dealing absolutely massive damage by the end.”
Do not just tell me to trust you, show the evidence. You’ve gone back and forth long enough with me to know that’s not an acceptable answer. Come on man.
Moving on, you know what else is pretty durable? A straight up friggin Kaiju. Your vague descriptions of Netnavi cybernetics tanking some damage isn’t nearly enough to convince me. Greenman tanking ONE hit from Gutsman isn’t impressive if you A) don’t show the attack in question and B) don’t say what happened to Greenman afterwards. And the same applies to the Bowlingman fight. Be specific, provide evidence. You know me well enough to know I’m going to ask these things, and frankly it’s embarrassing that you haven’t learned that yet.
And I don’t really care how long Toadman spams it, the point is that it’s been shown to be unimpressive against Numberman, and Titanosaurus is a massive Kaiju with a lot of durability so it should be just as unimpressive if not more. He can spam them as much as he wants, it’s not going to do anything to Titanosaurus and you admit yourself later you don’t have a lot more evidence to add on to this.
“The thing about providing new evidence is that Toadman is an obscure character who has not appeared very much. This was his only fight in the anime and his boss fight in the games is the only thing he’s got there. So we’re dealing with a limited amount of different scenes to show but at the same time I would say that what we have here is already enough. We’ve established that the wind can’t keep up with Toadman’s speed and also that Titanosaurus has no way of counter attacking. Mix that in with how Toadman can endlessly shoot off those notes and Titanosaurus is going down hard”
You’ve asserted that there’s no way for Titanosaurus to counterattack and that Toadman’s speed is enough to win here. And then pretty much ignored every counter point I’ve made. And you directly admit you have no other actual evidence to prove Toadman wins because yeah, he’s an obscure character with limited showings.
What you’ve provided is largely unimpressive and not indicative of the points you’re trying to make. It’s not enough if I have the amount of gripes with the video that I do Dreager. That means it’s incomplete, and you asserting that it isn’t while handwaving my arguments with poor counters isn’t going to make it complete. If you have no new evidence, then you aren’t going convince me. I’ve already refuted you heavily on every point you’ve made and you aren’t going to convince with this now.
So lets take this from the bottom. I wouldn’t say it’s a handwave but more like a high five as I’ve showed you the peak of what Toadman has to offer. There aren’t any other clips of him to be found in the whole Mega Man multiverse and yet I feel as though I have already gotten enough here to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he should win this. Now you may be asking me…why? Well, it’s because his speed and strength are too much.
You’re right that I’ve said Titanosaurus can’t counter attack and I stand by that. This is because Toadman is just on a completely different level of speed and power. I don’t think that can be stated enough here because it’s so important.
Now back to the wind debate. Check out any show where a character is on a board like Sonic Riders or Air Gears and you see how even large scale nature attacks don’t do a whole lot here. The reason for this is simple. It’s because you’re already moving so fast that you can counter any wind because you are moving faster than it could ever hope to match you. That’s really why Toadman is on top here and so he definitely wouldn’t be pushed off.
On the trust me angle that’s true, I’ll grab the feats for these but the main point here is that the durability is impressive and I don’t see how the villains or any Kaiju could hope to top that. Toadman will keep pelting away at him and that would be the end of Titanosaurus. No matter how durable a Kaiju is, he will ultimately go down after eating enough attacks like this.
“So lets take this from the bottom. I wouldn’t say it’s a handwave but more like a high five as I’ve showed you the peak of what Toadman has to offer. There aren’t any other clips of him to be found in the whole Mega Man multiverse and yet I feel as though I have already gotten enough here to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he should win this. Now you may be asking me…why? Well, it’s because his speed and strength are too much.”
It’s absolutely a handwave. Calling it a high five to make yourself feel better about it doesn’t stop it from being a handwave.
When I talk about the wind aspect of things and how destructive it is, you say trust me bro Toadman can simply ride with it. And then proceed to provide no actual evidence of Toadman ever doing anything like this. Because you don’t have that evidence,just assumptions that do not make sense.
When I try to address the pitiful power of those music notes and how they did nothing to Numberman, you say trust me bro Toadman can simply spam these until Titanosaurus is down. And then what do you do? You guessed it, again provide no actual evidence of Toadman ever doing anything like this.Again because you don’t have that evidence, just assumptions that do not make sense.
And you repeat the same cycle because it really isn’t about who actually would win for you. You’re stubborn and just don’t like being corrected. I don’t think I’ve seen a single time where you’ve even considered changing your verdict because you have entirely too much confidence in your often times flimsy arguments.
And then you try to repeat one of your original arguments and act as if I didn’t refute the same point at least two other times. In this case it’s the speed and strength of Toadman, which I’ve already talked about.
“You’re right that I’ve said Titanosaurus can’t counter attack and I stand by that. This is because Toadman is just on a completely different level of speed and power. I don’t think that can be stated enough here because it’s so important.”
It’s not important and I’ve shown multiple times exactly how it’s not. You’ve yet to prove that Toadman’s strength is all that impressive, and haven’t shown how Toadman’s speed is enough to counter the pure power of Titanosaurus’ wind blasts. Again like I’ve said above you’re going off of “trust me bro” and making unfounded assertions.
“Now back to the wind debate. Check out any show where a character is on a board like Sonic Riders or Air Gears and you see how even large scale nature attacks don’t do a whole lot here. The reason for this is simple. It’s because you’re already moving so fast that you can counter any wind because you are moving faster than it could ever hope to match you. That’s really why Toadman is on top here and so he definitely wouldn’t be pushed off.”
First of all, we’re not even talking about the same game series with this paragraph at this point. At least with showing Mega Lucario vs Gigantamax Machamp on the Greninja vs Galactus thread you kept it to the same series. Sonic and the Air Gears aren’t part of the same game, so comparing them is a really bad idea. Especially if you don’t provide evidence that they’re at all comparable. And once again by your own admission you’re quite limited in that regard, having very limited anime footage to attempt to back this up. So I’m not even going to get into what you say after that because it’s already an invalid point. You can’t use completely separate and completely different series as evidence for Toadman’s hoverboard. You have to understand that I will dismiss that argument out of hand.
“On the trust me angle that’s true, I’ll grab the feats for these but the main point here is that the durability is impressive and I don’t see how the villains or any Kaiju could hope to top that. Toadman will keep pelting away at him and that would be the end of Titanosaurus. No matter how durable a Kaiju is, he will ultimately go down after eating enough attacks like this.”
Honestly I’m just bothered by the fact you said “I’ll grab the feats for these” and then proceeded to not just simply post it in this comment. You know that’s what I’m looking for dude, so what’s the problem with posting them in this comment? It again makes me think that you’re just desperately clamoring around arguments you know are flimsy and have pretty much no evidence for.I’ve addressed the attacks you’ve shown in the video, they aren’t impressive. And again, I would love to see the evidence for the durability you’re describing here. Evidence. Evidence. Evidence. It’s what i’ve been asking for this whole time, so I’m dying to see it.
I’ve changed the verdict for fights many times on this site. I even put a note in the description which shows what day the fight’s victor changed so it happens quite a bit for sure. That said, in 99% of cases I’ve already exhaustively researched both combatants so that’s why it’s rare for things to change. For the airboarding, it’s fair to say that this wouldn’t work. In Vrains the characters are able to reach inside of hurricanes to grab cards and don’t lose their balance.
Toadman could certainly do the same and Titanosaurus just isn’t ready for that kind of power. It’s just too much to expect anyone to be able to deal with so it’s not a knock on him at all. He just isn’t quite ready for this yet.
Not trying to use the trust me arguments here but I’ve seen Titanosaurus’ film and he can barely move. It’s the weakness of Kaiju in general that they’re just so slow. There’s no way he could keep up with Toadman, I don’t even think it would be particularly close here. As for the durability, remember that Godzilla was pushing him around. Throw in some musical notes and you could have the same effect.
Not too many character use air boards in Megaman. I think the lead might once or twice but I can’t remember the episode. Either way if we can’t use other series then I think the most crucial factor here is that Toadman was clearly riding the board well. He’s done so in the past based on how smoothly he was using it so that should be enough to say that the wind wouldn’t stop him since he would have been used to it.
All right, here’s the link for the Greenman fight.
The fight starts at 14. So there you see how hard Gutsman hits and from there we can power scale to Toadman since Numberman had the edge on Gutsman and Gutsman beat Greenman and Toadman beat Numberman. If we follow the trail long enough you get to where Toadman is.
Again, there are no other scenes for Toadman we can grab so the rest has to be done through virtual power scaling but I think it works well enough. I get a bit of a smile on my face when checking out the old clips too. I could grab more feats for other fighters but applying them to Toadman is the trickiest part. I think we just have to roll with the fact that these were enough to do some damage to Numberman so it should do the same to Titanosaurus
“I’ve changed the verdict for fights many times on this site. I even put a note in the description which shows what day the fight’s victor changed so it happens quite a bit for sure. That said, in 99% of cases I’ve already exhaustively researched both combatants so that’s why it’s rare for things to change. For the airboarding, it’s fair to say that this wouldn’t work. In Vrains the characters are able to reach inside of hurricanes to grab cards and don’t lose their balance.
Toadman could certainly do the same and Titanosaurus just isn’t ready for that kind of power. It’s just too much to expect anyone to be able to deal with so it’s not a knock on him at all. He just isn’t quite ready for this yet.”
Not once have I seen a battle of yours change so this is definitely news to me. Show me an instance of this. And include one that has you changing your mind after someone had a discussion with you on this site. I would absolutely love to see that. I’m far more interested in times where a discussion convinced you than a new version of a character convincing you. It’s a far better indication on whether you’re too stubborn for your own good or not.
And Vrains doesn’t equal Megaman, not the same universe not the same powers, abilities, or general capabilities. Please stop using powers from different universes that don’t play by the same rules. Stick to the Megaman universe for Megaman character feats please. It simply confuses things.
“Not trying to use the trust me arguments here but I’ve seen Titanosaurus’ film and he can barely move. It’s the weakness of Kaiju in general that they’re just so slow. There’s no way he could keep up with Toadman, I don’t even think it would be particularly close here. As for the durability, remember that Godzilla was pushing him around. Throw in some musical notes and you could have the same effect.”
I wouldn’t consider that a trust me argument, since it’s very apparent that a creature that’s tens of tons would be slow. I just don’t really care when you haven’t proven that Toadman has the power to take Titanosaurus out. And to compare his music notes to the physical prowess of Godzilla is simply laughable and has no basis to be asserted.
“Not too many character use air boards in Megaman. I think the lead might once or twice but I can’t remember the episode. Either way if we can’t use other series then I think the most crucial factor here is that Toadman was clearly riding the board well. He’s done so in the past based on how smoothly he was using it so that should be enough to say that the wind wouldn’t stop him since he would have been used to it.”
Riding it well and being able to handle building wrecking winds are not the same thing. A stunt driver can ride a car really well and not be able to handle such winds. The same applies to a really good pilot. One can attempt to use skill to weather heavy winds, but at a certain point they’re simply too strong to navigate. Skill can only get one so far before it becomes useless. And you cannot demonstrate that Toadman has been able to navigate winds as strong as this.
“The fight starts at 14. So there you see how hard Gutsman hits and from there we can power scale to Toadman since Numberman had the edge on Gutsman and Gutsman beat Greenman and Toadman beat Numberman. If we follow the trail long enough you get to where Toadman is.”
The trail falls apart because Toadman beat Numberman specifically because their user was getting distracted and left them defenseless against an attack. And it falls apart further since just because Gutsman was defeated by Numberman and Gutsman defeated Greenman, doesn’t mean it makes Toadman super powerful. They’re all different Netnavi with specific capabilities so certain matchups are going to yield different results. The power scaling doesn’t line up here.
“Again, there are no other scenes for Toadman we can grab so the rest has to be done through virtual power scaling but I think it works well enough. I get a bit of a smile on my face when checking out the old clips too. I could grab more feats for other fighters but applying them to Toadman is the trickiest part. I think we just have to roll with the fact that these were enough to do some damage to Numberman so it should do the same to Titanosaurus”
I’m not going to accept power scaling on this one, both on principal of power scaling generally being a crap shoot, and because it simply doesn’t add up here. And with the whole rolling with it thing, you know I can’t and won’t do that. Also it did absolutely no damage to Numberman remember? It simply knocked him over, and he got right back up with no real visible damage. So no it won’t do the same to Titanosaurus because it didn’t even do what you’re saying it did to Numberman.
Sure, here are some fights that have been overturned.
https://dreager1.com/2012/11/06/cooler-vs-frieza/
https://dreager1.com/2013/01/23/piccolo-vs-frieza/
https://dreager1.com/2012/04/04/squirtle-vs-totodile/
https://dreager1.com/2011/04/30/silver-surfer-vs-deadpool/
I don’t keep a list of them anywhere so they’re hard to track down but it definitely happens. Mainly it’s for fights where someone got a power up or both characters were really obscure so someone found some feats. It may not be often but it definitely happens. I’ll try to find something a bit more direct in regard to someone convincing me through a debate though.
As for the power scaling, it can be a slippery slope so we could avoid that. It didn’t do a considerable amount of damage to Numberman but if he kept on shooting it probably would have. Those gatling type attacks get more and more deadly as you keep firing because the hits add up until the opponent can’t do much of anything. What could Titanosaurus do when he is being pelted by bullets over and over with no way to catch his breath? I don’t think it would be a very fun experience for him at all and that’s not even including the towers. Toadman is versatile as a fighter.
All right we’ll keep Vrains out of this but I consider that to be one of the stronger parts of Toadman’s case. You used the stunt driver as an analogy but I would counter that this is more like someone playing an arcade game but the opponent is yelling and jostling the chair. If you’re good enough you will still clutch out the victory but it’ll be tough. Toadman should absolutely be able to keep balance because that’s just the kind of guy he is. Netnavis aren’t like normal humans, they’re powerful and he should be able to resist any win with ease.
Meanwhile Titanosaurus is till on the defensive here because he has no way to get in close and land any hits on Toadman. That’s really where he will falter because no matter how durable he is, this will all catch up to him in the end. With no way to defend or escape he’s just a big target for Toadman out there.
Starting new comment chain
“Sure, here are some fights that have been overturned.”
Not gonna post the links but only one of these is based on you simply changing your mind. The other three are completely based on new forms being present. And I find it funny that these comments disagreeing with you are far less detailed and yet these are the ones that convince you for once.
“As for the power scaling, it can be a slippery slope so we could avoid that. It didn’t do a considerable amount of damage to Numberman but if he kept on shooting it probably would have. Those gatling type attacks get more and more deadly as you keep firing because the hits add up until the opponent can’t do much of anything. What could Titanosaurus do when he is being pelted by bullets over and over with no way to catch his breath? I don’t think it would be a very fun experience for him at all and that’s not even including the towers. Toadman is versatile as a fighter.”
You have no way of knowing that it would do massive amounts of damage whatsoever. And again, Titanosaurus has generally displayed better feats of durability than what is shown here, so what is he going to do? He really doesn’t have to do much of anything since it’s essentially a peashooter to him. And you admit you don’t really have much else to go off of here, so that makes things even worse. Also from what you’ve shown me in the show, attacks require a sort of chip put into a controller, and there are limited amounts of them. And this specifically applies to the towers as well.
“All right we’ll keep Vrains out of this but I consider that to be one of the stronger parts of Toadman’s case. You used the stunt driver as an analogy but I would counter that this is more like someone playing an arcade game but the opponent is yelling and jostling the chair. If you’re good enough you will still clutch out the victory but it’ll be tough. Toadman should absolutely be able to keep balance because that’s just the kind of guy he is. Netnavis aren’t like normal humans, they’re powerful and he should be able to resist any win with ease.”
You consider the functionality of an air board like machine from an entirely different universe to be one of the stronger parts of Toadman’s case? It’s a completely unrelated point Dreager, one that is based on the feats of an entirely different universe. They do not relate to each other whatsoever, and you’re only using that as a point because you do not have evidence to prove that Toadman specifically pull this off. This is again, because you’re using an obscure character that doesn’t get a lot of action in the show he’s in.
And you utterly botched the point I was making with my analogy by turning it into something completely different. To say it’s simply like someone shaking your chair and yelling at you is completely downplaying the sheer power of the tail wind, and it’s honestly a shameful misrepresentation of my argument. You should be ashamed of yourself for making this argument. In your version, it’s in a stationary position with a lot less force being applied to the person in the chair. In mine it’s in an actual moving vehicle, with a giant gust of wind they have to traverse. And furthermore in mine, the skill of the person being affected is actually being taken into consideration. Again it’s a complete misrepresentation of my argument.
And for making what is essentially another “trust me bro” argument by pretty much saying that Toadman can do it because he can. I know Netnavis aren’t like normal humans, but you have yet to establish that Toadman can pull off what you’re saying he can with any tangible evidence from the source material. I’m not looking for examples from other universes, and i’m not looking for evidence from other characters in the show. I am only interested in what you can show Toadman specifically doing in the show. And if you cannot provide said evidence, then you cannot prove Toadman can do what you say he can on when it comes to the air board.
“Meanwhile Titanosaurus is till on the defensive here because he has no way to get in close and land any hits on Toadman. That’s really where he will falter because no matter how durable he is, this will all catch up to him in the end. With no way to defend or escape he’s just a big target for Toadman out there.”
You don’t have the evidence to prove the music notes can substantially damage Titanosaurus and you don’t have the evidence to prove that Toadman can handle the destructive power of Titanosaurus’ tail winds. So I’m going to try again to focus on specific points to force you to provide actual evidence of what you’re claiming.
Specific points you need to address for me to be convinced.
1. Provide evidence that Toadman’s music notes can actually harm TItanosaurus in any meaningful way. Any attempts to use other characters from Megaman, other universes, or conjecture on how the ability works that aren’t seen in the show will be ignored. And of course anything that essentially says “trust me” will be dismissed automatically as well.
2. Provide evidence that Toadman can keep balance on his air board against building destroying gusts of winds or anything comparable. Any attempts to use other characters from Megaman, other universes, or conjecture on how Toadman can keep his balance that isn’t seen in the show will be ignored. And especially for this point, since this is the biggest offender, “trust me” arguments will also be automatically dismissed.
Let me repeat and explain everything that I will dismiss so there are no misconceptions
Other characters from Megaman: The first two are self explanatory. I’m not interested in arguments that are based on how other characters within the same universe function. It’s pure powerscaling, which isn’t helpful, especially since each Netnavi seems to have their own specific abilities.
Other universes: I’m also not interested in the feats of other universes here. This is because they operate off of different powersets, abilities, rules etc. They are pretty much entirely unrelated to the argument at hand, and are purely a distraction.
Conjecture: When I say conjecture,this is basically talking about anytime you decide to talk about something relating to an ability that isn’t actually shown in the source material. It’s essentially you guessing about the nature of it without actually having any documented evidence of what you’re talking about.
Trust me arguments: This is anytime you make an argument that essentially asks the reader to as the name says, trust you instead of actually providing a counter argument. This is unhelpful because there’s no actual basis to simply trust someone’s opinion without it being backed up. You’ve acknowledged this as a problem, so I expect you to remember it.
All of these are indicative of a lack of specific evidence on your end, and that’s the main reason I will dismiss them out of hand. They aren’t specifically pertaining to something Toadman is actually shown to do, and are instead based on you filling gaps in nonsensical ways.
Yeah a lot of times it is new forms that really change up the victor but there have been a few others with comments, it’s just hard to find them. Really the best way for me to switch a match is when there’s something brought up that I wasn’t aware of but it’s rare since I’m an expert on almost every series out there. The ones I’m not I still do a lot of research for.
For the chips, that’s right since Toadman is fighting without his operator he can’t just plug in new moves. So he is limited in what he can do. The towers would only work once since a navi can’t replenish on their own but the machine gun is something he should be able to spam indefinitely since it doesn’t come from a chip. That’s more like Mega Man’s Mega Buster which keeps on going. It’s far more than a pea shooter though. This is the kind of weapon that brings villains to their knees and Titanosaurus is no exception. Keep in mind that this guy wasn’t quick enough to dodge attacks from Godzilla so dodging hits from Toadman is completely out of the question. The attacks will just keep on going over and over again. Titanosaurus might get hit in the eyes or in the knee and those hits will add up.
As for the chair example, I didn’t want to downplay it but that was the best similar example I had. If you know what you’ going then no outside element should be able to stop you. Whether it be hurricane winds or a powerful blizzard, you’d just keep on keeping on. It’s like if you’re swimming in the ocean and a whirlpool appears. If you’re on a surfboard then you’ll be okay but if you don’t have one then you’re sunk….literally. Outside elements won’t stop a board because they’re made for this kind of thing.
For Toadman I already brought in the silver bullet for why his skills are the real deal. He maintained balance throughout the entirety of the fight, even when the towers were in the mix. We may not have seen heat and wind coming from them but those towers were the real deal but Toadman stayed strong like a champ. There aren’t other clips of him on his airboard as far as I know but this one was absolutely crucial. It shows that Titanosaurus will have no way of hitting him since Toadman is just too crazy fast. He’ll keep peppering Titanosaurus with attacks that the kaiju can’t dodge or endure forever.
For the first part about proving the damage, all I gotta do is refer back to Titanosaurus’ own movies. He was getting wrecked by Godzilla and we saw that every kind of move could hurt him. Physical blows, ranged attacks, etc. There’s no reason why Toadman’s attacks wouldn’t do the same and take that guy down for the count. If they could hurt Numberman who’s a netnavi and pretty much a robot, then it should be hurting the Kaiju with the same intensity. Not saying you have to trust me there but just take a look at the stats.
For point 2 I explained earlier but in the whole fight he never loses balance. Boards are made for balance which is why people can go surfing even in the biggest of storms. Even in a film like Hacksaw Ridge you saw how the main character put his boss on a makeshift board type thing that he used the gun to maneuver. Because it’s hard to fall out of that just based on the size alone. It’s just too good of a shape to go against.
So I’d say I avoided the trust me arguments. Now I will say that those can be useful at times because I’m pretty much one of the top authorities on Toadman but I can see why we can’t use it. The other universes thing also can get a bit wild even if it is fun to grab from other sources. Ultimately we need Toadman to appear more but I’d like to say that I’ve satisfactorily brought in all of his feats and shown why there is no Kaiju who can defeat him. This guy is just broken with how fast he is and the range of attacks at his disposal. He could potentially also just use it to zoom around Titanoaurus and land a flurry of punches and kicks before the Kaiju could react.
“For the chips, that’s right since Toadman is fighting without his operator he can’t just plug in new moves. So he is limited in what he can do. The towers would only work once since a navi can’t replenish on their own but the machine gun is something he should be able to spam indefinitely since it doesn’t come from a chip. That’s more like Mega Man’s Mega Buster which keeps on going. It’s far more than a pea shooter though. This is the kind of weapon that brings villains to their knees and Titanosaurus is no exception. Keep in mind that this guy wasn’t quick enough to dodge attacks from Godzilla so dodging hits from Toadman is completely out of the question. The attacks will just keep on going over and over again. Titanosaurus might get hit in the eyes or in the knee and those hits will add up.”
It’s absolutely a pea shooter. What is actually shown does absolutely no lasting damage to Numberman. He’s perfectly capable of tanking this and continuing to fight with zero problems. And you have no evidence that repeated shots would do more damage outside of an entirely different weapon and pure conjecture, which is very clearly an example of the other character (Mega Buster) and conjecture (asserting an aspect of the music notes without direct evidence) rules I established in my “things I will dismiss” list. And admitting that the towers are a one use affair makes your case even weaker, so I’m even less convinced of your position.
“As for the chair example, I didn’t want to downplay it but that was the best similar example I had. If you know what you’ going then no outside element should be able to stop you. Whether it be hurricane winds or a powerful blizzard, you’d just keep on keeping on. It’s like if you’re swimming in the ocean and a whirlpool appears. If you’re on a surfboard then you’ll be okay but if you don’t have one then you’re sunk….literally. Outside elements won’t stop a board because they’re made for this kind of thing.”
The board isn’t shown to be designed for such destructive winds, and you have zero evidence of this. Surfboard can ride normal waves because that’s what it’s designed for. But it’s certainly not designed to ride a tsunami level waves. You might be able to claim that a board like this can handle normal gusts of wind. And I put an emphasis on might, because if I don’t A) I would be a hypocrite and B) we don’t see much of this in action. But even if we take that as fact, there’s absolutely nothing showing that it’s designed for building destroying 700 mph winds. There’s simply no evidence for it being made for that.
“For Toadman I already brought in the silver bullet for why his skills are the real deal. He maintained balance throughout the entirety of the fight, even when the towers were in the mix. We may not have seen heat and wind coming from them but those towers were the real deal but Toadman stayed strong like a champ. There aren’t other clips of him on his airboard as far as I know but this one was absolutely crucial. It shows that Titanosaurus will have no way of hitting him since Toadman is just too crazy fast. He’ll keep peppering Titanosaurus with attacks that the kaiju can’t dodge or endure forever.”
If we don’t see it, it wasn’t a big deal. If it WAS a big deal, it would’ve been emphasized, and Toadman would’ve been shown actually dealing with it. But as it is, this doesn’t happen which makes it not a big deal, and has you breaking my conjecture rule again. And these winds are certainly not comparable to building destroying 700 mph winds anyways so the point is moot regardless.
“For the first part about proving the damage, all I gotta do is refer back to Titanosaurus’ own movies. He was getting wrecked by Godzilla and we saw that every kind of move could hurt him. Physical blows, ranged attacks, etc. There’s no reason why Toadman’s attacks wouldn’t do the same and take that guy down for the count. If they could hurt Numberman who’s a netnavi and pretty much a robot, then it should be hurting the Kaiju with the same intensity. Not saying you have to trust me there but just take a look at the stats.”
Godzilla is also a massive kaiju that can destroy cities and a shit ton of other kaiju other than Titanosaurus. Toadman’s attacks are in no way comparable to that level of power, and you still have yet to prove that in any capacity. Numberman being a netnavi/robot thing does not make him comparable to Godzilla, who has tanked a lot more large scale attacks than Numberman ever has. I don’t need to look at the stats for that long to work out that the comparison doesn’t work.
“For point 2 I explained earlier but in the whole fight he never loses balance. Boards are made for balance which is why people can go surfing even in the biggest of storms. Even in a film like Hacksaw Ridge you saw how the main character put his boss on a makeshift board type thing that he used the gun to maneuver. Because it’s hard to fall out of that just based on the size alone. It’s just too good of a shape to go against.”
Right off the bat I can see you’ve broken another rule, that being my other universe rule. Citing Hacksaw Ridge does not prove your point. And since I’ve actually seen Hacksaw Ridge, this point is even more confusing. Not once in this movie does the makeshift shit made deal with any similar conditions to Titanosaurus’ tail wind. This comparison doesn’t just break my clearly established rule, it’s not even close to being related. And again, I talked about surfboards above, so I won’t do it again here.
“So I’d say I avoided the trust me arguments. Now I will say that those can be useful at times because I’m pretty much one of the top authorities on Toadman but I can see why we can’t use it. The other universes thing also can get a bit wild even if it is fun to grab from other sources. Ultimately we need Toadman to appear more but I’d like to say that I’ve satisfactorily brought in all of his feats and shown why there is no Kaiju who can defeat him. This guy is just broken with how fast he is and the range of attacks at his disposal. He could potentially also just use it to zoom around Titanoaurus and land a flurry of punches and kicks before the Kaiju could react.”
I will say you have definitely avoided trust me arguments, so I will give you that. I also appreciate that you understand why other universes aren’t helpful here. But you haven’t once brought in satisfactory feats that show that Toadman can take Titanosaurus down. He can zoom around all he wants, but you haven’t established that is power is enough to win here, or how how he can simply tank the tail winds the way you say he can.
A pea shooter would be like trying to nail Bass with the Toaru Railgun attack but this is different. Toadman is using musical notes to his advantage and seems to be able to spam them at will. I agree that Titanosaurus could survive one of those. But surviving dozens and dozens shot out each minute? There’s no way he would have the durability or stamina for that. It would be way too much for him to hope to endure. He would very quickly be taken out of the running here because his defense couldn’t possibly last.
Titanosaurus has no armor over his eyes and ears. As characters have pointed out in the past, every being has soft parts that will be weak if they aren’t specifically protected. The eyes and ears are two examples of that and they will be massive points for Toadman to focus on.
That’s why his power would be enough. A few dozen musical notes and Titanosaurus would be blinded at best and knocked over at worst. From there it’s just a matter of continuing the hits. As for the tail winds being enough to stop Toadman, they just aren’t fierce enough. Toadman can zip around at high speeds so he’s never directly in front of the tail and can ride out the side winds. For someone like Toadman that won’t be a big deal.
So for the Hacksaw Ridge example, the main character used the gun to turn the blanket into a surfboard type device because that way he could drag the other guy off the ridge while running on bumpy terrain and being shot at. Notice how the guy never fell off of it. I won’t dwell on this point since it’s from another universe but the actual shape of the board is the important thing here.
So Toadman just needs to make sure he’s away from the eye of the storm when Titanosaurus starts to swing his tail and that would be it. Titanosaurus would not be able to react to his attacks and has no way to damage the guy so the hits would add up and knock him down. As a netnavi it’s not like Toadman would quickly get tired or anything like that
“A pea shooter would be like trying to nail Bass with the Toaru Railgun attack but this is different. Toadman is using musical notes to his advantage and seems to be able to spam them at will. I agree that Titanosaurus could survive one of those. But surviving dozens and dozens shot out each minute? There’s no way he would have the durability or stamina for that. It would be way too much for him to hope to endure. He would very quickly be taken out of the running here because his defense couldn’t possibly last.”
And you cannot prove that these music notes would do any substantial damage, even if they’re spammed out with dozens and dozens coming out a minute. Titanosaurus can tank all sorts of powerful physical blows that blow these notes out of the water. And to repeat this once again, this is pure conjecture that you have no evidence for.
“Titanosaurus has no armor over his eyes and ears. As characters have pointed out in the past, every being has soft parts that will be weak if they aren’t specifically protected. The eyes and ears are two examples of that and they will be massive points for Toadman to focus on.
That’s why his power would be enough. A few dozen musical notes and Titanosaurus would be blinded at best and knocked over at worst. From there it’s just a matter of continuing the hits. As for the tail winds being enough to stop Toadman, they just aren’t fierce enough. Toadman can zip around at high speeds so he’s never directly in front of the tail and can ride out the side winds. For someone like Toadman that won’t be a big deal.”
Cool, show me evidence that Toadman and their operator would operate like this, targeting these specific weak points. Especially since they aren’t comically large and are proportional to Titanosaurus’ face. And furthermore prove that even if they did spam this, show me how they would be able to do a lot of damage to the rest of Titanosaurus’ body? They still have to actually take Titanosaurus for good since he isn’t dead and can still attack. And there’s no way in hell these things are going to knock something at least 10-15 times the size of Toadman down. That’s utterly laughable.
As for the tail winds, prove they aren’t fierce enough. Prove that Toadman can zip around at high enough speeds that 700 mph winds aren’t going to affect him. Or even the side winds that would still be rather powerful. I’m sorry but you’ve gone back to a trust me argument. You’re asserting that I should just believe that this won’t be a big deal for Toadman without providing evidence. Provide evidence of Toadman doing something like this and I will believe you. If you can’t, I won’t. I repeat, provide evidence of Toadman specifically doing something like this and I will believe you. If you can’t, I won’t.
All right I think it’s time to cement Toadman’s victory here. The evidence for how he can zip through the 700mph winds is that he is an expert on the board. Did you see how well he was moving throughout the battle here? It takes a lot to get to Toadman and he would be able to just keep on flying. Zipping around to where the winds are weaker and just plunging through. This is where his determination and speed come into play. I won’t ask you to trust me on the determination part but trust me when I say that it is considerable. All we need is the speed though and that’s what will let Toadman keep on getting the best of the fight because he can weave in and out as needed.
For the notes, I wouldn’t say it’s a lot of conjecture because we saw how Toadman was shooting those out like it was New Year’s Eve. He just kept on spamming them and while Numberman wasn’t immediately destroyed, the attacks are as such where he had to react. The same will be true of Titanosaurus. That kaiju is incredibly powerful but power is not enough against such a vicious onslaught. He would still get overwhelmed with speed and that would be enough to take him out here. The attacks just keep on coming and I can tell you that it’s hard to focus when you’re constantly being belted by blows. Even in a normal street fight you always want to get the first shot because once they get you on the ground it’s over. The hit are just too hard to react to and that’s what happens here.
Attacking weak points is a common thing though, they would just be going at it and Titanosaurus would eventually fall. Imagine the pressure of these notes hitting you over and over like this? It would just cause way too much damage to be ignored and that would be the end of the match. Kaiju or not, anyone would fall to that.
“All right I think it’s time to cement Toadman’s victory here. The evidence for how he can zip through the 700mph winds is that he is an expert on the board. Did you see how well he was moving throughout the battle here? It takes a lot to get to Toadman and he would be able to just keep on flying. Zipping around to where the winds are weaker and just plunging through. This is where his determination and speed come into play. I won’t ask you to trust me on the determination part but trust me when I say that it is considerable. All we need is the speed though and that’s what will let Toadman keep on getting the best of the fight because he can weave in and out as needed.”
Provide evidence from the source material there were winds anywhere near 700 mph. Him being an expert in this context is irrelevant when the winds are much faster than what you’ve shown here. Being “an expert on the board” is entirely relative to the situation he’s in. This is a situation where it’s simply not comparable to what Titanosaurus can dish out since there’s nothing indicating that it’s comparable to the speed of the winds Titanosaurus can whip out. And the winds are just going to be weaker in spots that Toadman can really take advantage of
It is essentially a hurricane-like wall of wind that tears stuff apart. There’s no real room or time for Toadman to find a weaker part of the wind. And even potential weaker areas would be significantly faster winds than anything you’ve shown.
“For the notes, I wouldn’t say it’s a lot of conjecture because we saw how Toadman was shooting those out like it was New Year’s Eve. He just kept on spamming them and while Numberman wasn’t immediately destroyed, the attacks are as such where he had to react. The same will be true of Titanosaurus. That kaiju is incredibly powerful but power is not enough against such a vicious onslaught. He would still get overwhelmed with speed and that would be enough to take him out here. The attacks just keep on coming and I can tell you that it’s hard to focus when you’re constantly being belted by blows. Even in a normal street fight you always want to get the first shot because once they get you on the ground it’s over. The hit are just too hard to react to and that’s what happens here.”
Reacting to the hits is irrelevant when Titanosaurus is far more durable than anything you’ve shown from Numberman. If you can’t show this can do more damage with continued shots, with scans videos, pics, anything besides you saying so, then this will all remain conjecture. And this conjecture will be dismissed. End of story. None of this repeated attack line of reasoning matters until that can be shown
“Attacking weak points is a common thing though, they would just be going at it and Titanosaurus would eventually fall. Imagine the pressure of these notes hitting you over and over like this? It would just cause way too much damage to be ignored and that would be the end of the match. Kaiju or not, anyone would fall to that.”
No, not anyone would fall to that because it’s pitifully weak spam that isn’t shown to do that much damage to a significantly less durable opponent. And again see above about the conjecture stuff. You can’t avoid it being conjecture until you supply evidence that repeated shots help this. And since that would have to come from the TV episode which doesn’t really show it, there’s nothing to really go off of. So once again it’s going to be dismissed since the evidence just isn’t there. Toadman’a victory isn’t cemented whatsoever, you’ve just repackaged points that you cannot prove and/or have been refuted already.
Hmmm, okay that’s a good catch. I admit that it would be difficult to prove that the winds were going at 700MPH. Still, an air board should be enough to get past that. It’s like if you start swimming underwater, even if the current comes over, your board shouldn’t rock too hard. Look at people who do all of those fancy surfing tricks and ride the waves? It’s the same concept so Toadman should be able to nail this no matter how hard the winds get. His sheer skill on the board would let him just keep going and blast through. He may have to cross his arms to block the main impact but from there proceeding at full strength should really work.
For the attacks I’ve been trying to dig up more scenes but it’s crazy how obscure this character is. If we reach into the realm of gameplay mechanics we can see that he is able to move from tile to tile with almost instant speed.
That at least means if he can parlay the speed into his energy attacks then that should make the damage even more severe. Titanosaurus has been shown to be susceptible to Godzilla’s atomic breath so Toadman needs to hit that hard. Now the tough part is getting to that level and it depends how we scale the durability of the average netnavi. There was one fighter named Greenman who was a local champion but got one shotted by Gutsman who is much weaker than Numberman. So if the durability all stacks in that way then it’s safe to say that Numberman is probably doomed right? If Toadman’s hits can breach that level of durability then they should deal considerable damage to Titanosaurus.
I won’t try to say that I’ve cemented the victory again this time but I did just read some more Godzilla comics and think I see the issue with Titanosaurus’ chances of winning here. He’s still too slow like the other Kaiju so even if the attack range is intense, I don’t see him being able to do a whole lot here. Even Kaiju like Ebirah have lost to the government and their energy weapons before so it should be the same with Toadman and his attacks.
“Hmmm, okay that’s a good catch. I admit that it would be difficult to prove that the winds were going at 700MPH. Still, an air board should be enough to get past that. It’s like if you start swimming underwater, even if the current comes over, your board shouldn’t rock too hard. Look at people who do all of those fancy surfing tricks and ride the waves? It’s the same concept so Toadman should be able to nail this no matter how hard the winds get. His sheer skill on the board would let him just keep going and blast through. He may have to cross his arms to block the main impact but from there proceeding at full strength should really work”
Nope not the same concept. We went over comparisons to surfing already. The fancy trucks mean nothing for this battle. This is like them trying to do said tricks on a large tsunami. It’s not the same plain and simple. Skill is irrelevant if you can’t show equivalent wind speed in his feats. He’s getting blasted off that board and you have zero evidence so far that can change my mind. Find the feat or drop the point. Anything other than a scan or something similar will be considered an admission of me being correct on this point. You’ve had plenty of chances to either provide this evidence or move on.
“For the attacks I’ve been trying to dig up more scenes but it’s crazy how obscure this character is. If we reach into the realm of gameplay mechanics we can see that he is able to move from tile to tile with almost instant speed.”
This is very specifically him on tiles provided in game with no specific distance given. There’s nothing indicating whether this is pure game mechanics or there’s actual lore or anything similar backing this up. So yeah since I can’t really glean anything specific on how this will affect the battle its going to be ignored. There really isn’t much to go off of right now.
“That at least means if he can parlay the speed into his energy attacks then that should make the damage even more severe. Titanosaurus has been shown to be susceptible to Godzilla’s atomic breath so Toadman needs to hit that hard. Now the tough part is getting to that level and it depends how we scale the durability of the average netnavi. There was one fighter named Greenman who was a local champion but got one shotted by Gutsman who is much weaker than Numberman. So if the durability all stacks in that way then it’s safe to say that Numberman is probably doomed right? If Toadman’s hits can breach that level of durability then they should deal considerable damage to Titanosaurus.”
The video you’ve shown me again is too vague in what it’s showing to really consider the speed feat part of this valid.
As for the Gutsman/Greenman stuff, we’ve been over it before. Here’s part of a previous comment where I talk about the Netnavi scaling bs.
“And it falls apart further since just because Gutsman was defeated by Numberman and Gutsman defeated Greenman, doesn’t mean it makes Toadman super powerful. They’re all different Netnavi with specific capabilities so certain matchups are going to yield different results. The power scaling doesn’t line up here.”
You’re just recycling tired old arguments that don’t stack up. Next.
“I won’t try to say that I’ve cemented the victory again this time but I did just read some more Godzilla comics and think I see the issue with Titanosaurus’ chances of winning here. He’s still too slow like the other Kaiju so even if the attack range is intense, I don’t see him being able to do a whole lot here. Even Kaiju like Ebirah have lost to the government and their energy weapons before so it should be the same with Toadman and his attacks.”
You’ve utterly failed to demonstrate that Toadman is comparable the government and their energy weapons that you’re talking about. This is just two recycled arguments, a vague video that doesn’t have anything showing whether it’s pure game mechanics or not, and bs scaling and wank.
So it still really doesn’t matter whether Titanosaurus is slow or not since you’re still struggling to show anything to prove that Toadman can significantly hurt him.
All right I’ll try to take a different angle on this. It’s tricky with Toadman but I figure I’ll go back to the basics and see what else there is on him. First up we need to see how powerful the average netnavi is and go from there. The weakest ones on the shelf were already able to move with relatively high speed and engage in a fist barrage.
Toadman was stronger than Numberman who was stronger than Gutsman who was strong enough to qualify for the N1 Grand Prix so Toadman has to be really tough. Also skip to :28 in this video:
One attack we hadn’t discussed is that in addition to the musical notes Toadman can also shoot out little toad bombs that explode on impact. This is an absolute game changer. Why? Because now Titanosaurus has to try and endure yet another attack since he wouldn’t be able to dodge this one. If Toadman were to hit the bomb with one of his notes then in theory the attack would be even more explosive and dangerous. It’s hard to see what Titanosaurus could do against that.
As for movement, lets say for a second that Toadman would not be able to ride his board through the 700MPH winds. So instead he goes on the ground and jumps from lily pad to lily pad. Titanosaurus is still not fast enough to nab him but now he also has to worry about getting hit with those bombs. Titanosaurus no longer has the advantage of shooting the wind everywhere with his movements so he’s absorbing those hits without landing any counter attacks. It seems to me like that would just be a game over moment for everyone involved.
This puts the ball back in Titanosaurus’ court but now he is really stuck. Even if the hits only do 1% of damage with each blow, he would go down after 100 and has no way to stop the hits from coming in. Looking at it that way, it would seem that he is doomed.
“All right I’ll try to take a different angle on this. It’s tricky with Toadman but I figure I’ll go back to the basics and see what else there is on him. First up we need to see how powerful the average netnavi is and go from there. The weakest ones on the shelf were already able to move with relatively high speed and engage in a fist barrage.”
Move at high speeds and fist barrage. Well the fist barrage isn’t part of Toadman’s kit so that’s irrelevant. And moving at high speeds is pretty specific to the lily pads which you get into later. So other
“Toadman was stronger than Numberman who was stronger than Gutsman who was strong enough to qualify for the N1 Grand Prix so Toadman has to be really tough. Also skip to :28 in this video:”
Don’t care about Gutsman, totally different powerset based on what you’ve shown.
“One attack we hadn’t discussed is that in addition to the musical notes Toadman can also shoot out little toad bombs that explode on impact. This is an absolute game changer. Why? Because now Titanosaurus has to try and endure yet another attack since he wouldn’t be able to dodge this one. If Toadman were to hit the bomb with one of his notes then in theory the attack would be even more explosive and dangerous. It’s hard to see what Titanosaurus could do against that.”
Small unimpressive little bombs that are unlikely to present any physical danger to a massive Kaiju. And as for what Titanosaurus does about it, simple he just uses the tail wind to obliterate everything around Toadman. A bunch of lilypads are not standing up to the damage the 700 mph winds here. Even if Toadman’s not on a particular one it doesn’t matter. What matters is that he’s losing his opportunity to move around and attack.This isn’t a battle of two similarly sized opponents playing the same game with the same rules. It’s a battle between Toadman, a roughly human sized being at most and a massive Kaiju sized being with Kaiju sized attacks..
“As for movement, lets say for a second that Toadman would not be able to ride his board through the 700MPH winds. So instead he goes on the ground and jumps from lily pad to lily pad. Titanosaurus is still not fast enough to nab him but now he also has to worry about getting hit with those bombs. Titanosaurus no longer has the advantage of shooting the wind everywhere with his movements so he’s absorbing those hits without landing any counter attacks. It seems to me like that would just be a game over moment for everyone involved.”
Titanosaurus has an even greater advantage because now Toadman has limited his movements entirely to this 3 x 3 lily pad space. Which means that even if he dashes around he’s still in the area. And if he’s in the area of the tail wind, he gets damaged. And again there’s no way you’re convincing me that some lilypads are going to stay still and not get blown away by these winds. So Toadman’s lost another means of fighting against Titanosaurus while also taking a lot of damage.
“This puts the ball back in Titanosaurus’ court but now he is really stuck. Even if the hits only do 1% of damage with each blow, he would go down after 100 and has no way to stop the hits from coming in. Looking at it that way, it would seem that he is doomed.”
And these hits are interrupted as the entire lilypad section is blasted away. Or Toadman just tries to avoid it and is hit as he lands on another lilypad. And then this 1 percent argument which is far to generous to Toadman’s known attack power goes out the window. He’s lost control on the board and his lilypads are screwed. Toadman is now in a terrible position without his methods of avoiding attacks and is forced to operate on foot and eventually gets blasted to defeat.
It is fair that the Lilypads would get blown away from the winds so I’ll take those out of the equation. Toadman’s still decently fast though. Maybe not superhuman, but enough to dodge Titanosaurus’ attacks for a reasonably long amount of time. That said, without many further feats in Toadman’s corner it does seem like his options are limited. In the end Titanosaurus can win this after a long battle of attrition. So I’d say that you’ve convinced me that Titanosaurus should win this one in the end. I posted an official update within the summary to update that Titanosaurus wins the fight and I updated both of their records accordingly so Toadman goes from 8-8 to 7-9 and Titanosaurus goes from 20-9 to 21-8.