One Above All vs Goku


One Above All

One Above All has some pretty “awesome” power, but in the end he’s not quite a match for Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha Wave and it does some pretty heavy duty damage. It’s not something you want to mess with. Goku has beaten guys much stronger than the One Above All and lived to tell about it. Goku wins.

Fanfic version below

Cosmic vs Saiyan!

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1,537 thoughts on “One Above All vs Goku

      • Well, Bass blew up an island just by powering up and that was without trying. If we assume that he only used .001% of his power to do so..the possibilities are endless. He got so many super forms and FTL feats that we can’t even begin to understand his true power

      • Actually, the possibilities aren’t endless because you provided an end to his power.
        100 divided by 0.001 is equal to 100,000.

        Does that mean Bass can only destroy 100,000 islands?
        If so, where did you even get that number from?
        If he’s powering up, doesn’t it mean he gets a greater INCREASE in power, thus meaning it is higher than that?
        Why are we scaling from that one feat when there are several that are better than that one?
        Why did you chose that one above his greater ones?

        I have other questions that I want to ask, but these are the more important ones.

      • Well, the problem is that we just don’t know. Bass may not have had to use any of his power to destroy the island since it was just from powering up. The .01 seconds thing was a speed feat that happened towards the beginning of the series as mentioned by Protoman. The .01 I used here was just a purely hypothetical number.
        I like pulling out lower feats once in a while to get the ball rolling before scaling up. We could have started out with a better feat of course, but this buys a little more time for us to really examine it through and through.

      • This version of Eternity became the embodiment of the Omniverse.

        And you got owned again because you can’t powerscale and island buster to omniverse level.

      • hahahahahaahahahahaahah! sorry its so funny how you think Goku would win agent someone who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. and is the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse. and His powers are unlimited, incalculable and immeasurable.

        The One-Above-All is also Omnipresent which means that there exists only one, and in all realities at once.
        people with more than infinite power get pwned by him.

      • I accept your apology. TOAA is all hype and while his powers are incalculable and immeasureable…it’s because he doesn’t have powers

      • ha! no powers? well lets see, he created the entire marvel universe, he revived Ben Grimm after he was killed, it was said he has more power than everyone combined, he restored earth 616 after is was atomized, he just gave peter Parker all the knowledge on earth, and i could go on on on.

      • all hype? oh yeah guys! God is all hype! ha ha ha! you know the guy who made everything? hype! ha ha ha!

  1. Yes. And also, becoming the Omniverse itself isn’t a good feat? Lol no. Your wrong again. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would literally need to kill everyone in it in order to destroy Eternity.

    Where’s the powerscaling from island to Omniverse level? You fail again as you can’t post scans to do that.

  2. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would have to destroy everything and every single being in existence to beat this version of Eternity.

    Show the powerscaling already.

    • I dunno about that. TOAA would still be conscious so just kicking and punching the air would hurt him.

      Well, Bass blew up a Black Hole once and he’s been shown to be pretty strong through the years. I’m confident that he could destroy a lot more when we consider all of the experience and level ups that he’s gotten. Hubstyle, Beast Out, Dark Mode…Bass is loaded with strength and quite frankly, I think we’ve only seen a mere glimmer of what he can do. Beyonder can destroy multiverses and he’s weaker than Goku who is weaker than Megaman who is weaker than Bass. Ergo, Bass is the strongest being in all of media and that’s quite possibly the scariest part of all

    • They’ve never been given the chance. That’s like saying that I couldn’t eat 2 Cheeseburgers now because I’ve never done it before. LT is too slow to land a hit

      • he can’t move at all. like not even the atoms move. his blood doesn’t move. his heart doesn’t beat. can he fight like that?

      • Sure, his power level doesn’t come from any of that. It’s his spirit energy and he can always summon it up at will. Then everyone dies

      • oh my gosh. goku can’t live without his heart pumping, or his blood moving. and how would goku hold up to superman? deathbattle said superman would win. and superman destroyed a solar system with a SNEEZE.

      • Whoa there, you don’t want to bring up Death Battle. That just adds more evidence to Goku winning. Goku’s heart is pumping and his blood will be moving thanks to his ki so I think he’s good. Lets not go and underestimate Goku here. He’s faster and stronger than good ole Supes

      • so how does goku hold up to that? i’m trying to see how far you will go to say goku would win.

      • Goku would hold up really well. He is the Saiyan of legend after all. Superman could sneeze, but Goku would just power up and the wind would blow away Superman’s germs.

      • That wouldn’t make sense though. Goku doesn’t need to move to use ki. Is the hypothetical that Goku is already dead, but his corpse is being placed in a fight?

  3. The One-Above-All is the prevalent memetic name for the supreme God of the fictional Marvel Comics mythology.

    [edit] Publication history

    The title “One-Above-All” itself was coined in Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), written by Steve Englehart, and the entity visibly manifested in Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004).

    The entity appears in The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007).

    [edit] Fictional character biography

    During an encounter with the mystic hero and Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange, the cosmic entity Eternity tells Strange: “I and my brother, Death, comprise all of your reality, mystic! Neither he nor I are God, for God rules all realities!”

    When the pregnant Susan Storm feared for her husband’s likely death at the hands of the “all-powerful” Silver Surfer, Uatu the Watcher told her that there was only one being that was truly “all-powerful”, and that “His only weapon…is love!”

    Doctor Strange, after being bitten by the vampire Dracula, apparently invokes this entity in desperation: “In the name of the Tetragrammaton, Jehovah! O Great Unmanifest, hear my plea!” which called upon holy power in the form of a crucifix strong enough to cure both himself and Wong of vampirism and seemingly destroy Dracula himself, later calling upon this power once again to purge and slay the N’Garai-empowered Shadowqueen. Strange, after surviving a fierce battle with the Asgardian trickster Loki, sees Thor and states: “And yet, some omnipotent power has so arranged the universe that good must always prevail! For every mighty villain, there is a mightier hero! For every menacing enemy of mankind, there is a fighting Avenger!” In a confrontation with the demonic Chthon in his own realm, Strange, though very nearly succumbing to Chthon’s darkness, was saved by his faith in “something far subtler and far more majestic than the Great Shadow.”

    While confronting the vampire Dracula, the angel Janus has made mention to a higher “Master” he serves: “But now you are closer than ever to spreading a new reign of terror across this Earth – and that my Master will not allow! For it has been decreed only He shall stand over this world. None but He!” When Dracula at long last manages to seemingly slay Janus after a fierce battle, Janus tells him, “It isn’t from Hell I come from, Dracula. There is another side which fights this endless battle between good and evil…and it is that side which will be victorius. For, I have seen the future…and I know…I know…I know…” subsequently releasing his spirit to be apparently absorbed by Domini’s portrait of Christ, with Christ’s eyes shining with the same heavenly light Janus did, causing Dracula to at long last know what power he had truly been fighting all this time.

    In ancient times, to punish the people of Gehenna for worshiping the savage Annunaki deity Ba’al through ritualistic human sacrifice, the Hand of God, empowered by “unbreakable steel and divine might”, is sent to destroy Ba’al. In recent times the anti-hero Wolverine, after directly praying for aid, appears to be possessed by the Hand of God’s spirit, and slays the restored Ba’al. An enemy of Wolverine, the genius-level Gorgon, devised a mathematical formula at the age of thirteen that proves, beyond all doubt, the existence of God.

    In the aftermath of the Infinity Gauntlet crossover series, during the trial of Adam Warlock, the Living Tribunal states: “I represent forces that dwarf even your might. My authority comes from on high.”

    The Cosmic Cube Kubik, on a tour displaying various higher powers to Kosmos, states: “The most supreme power that can be comprehended, the Living Tribunal exists in all multiverses simultaneously, always prepared to enact judgment. Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare imagine.”

    When Thor once compared himself and Odin to various other gods, abstract entities, and cosmic beings in terms of power, he notes: “And ’tis said that a being, called the Living Tribunal—the final judge—hath the power to enforce his will ‘pon any cosmos he doth judge! And ’tis said his power is supreme in all the Multiverse. Even I, son of one of the mightiest of all gods, find it impossible to conceive of such levels of power! And ’tis a humbling thought to consider how much greater the Creator of all Universes must be than that of all of His creations combined!”

    When Jake Olsen pleaded for Odin to not send him back into Mephisto’s realm, Odin, after denying he himself was “God”, instead allows Olsen’s soul to ascend to a higher plane, responding: “Nay, mortal. There is a power far greater than mine – and it is to Him I commend thy spirit now. Let peace envelop thy being, mortal, for thou hast suffered enow.”

    The Eternal Thanos realizes he has been subtly manipulated by an unseen supreme power, whom he refers to as “the Almighty”, into destroying, and then recreating the universe without a fundamental flaw, initially caused by the resurrection of Wonder Man, that allowed characters to be resurrected quite easily and created an imbalance between life and death.

    The entity apparently appears before the superhero team the Fantastic Four when they visit Heaven to retrieve the soul of Ben Grimm, in the appearance of the Fantastic Four’s co-creatorJack Kirby.

    After a final confrontation with the brutal demoness Asteroth left Beta Ray Bill at the brink of death, a glowing man in white robes appears before him and heals him while assuring him that this would be a new beginning for his people and himself, subsequently claiming the souls of the decimated Korbinites and sending his own spirit into the body of a human.

    When Peter Parker’s (the alter ego of Spider-Man) Aunt May lies close to death, a seemingly all-knowing homeless man appears before Parker, and when Parker asks the entity about its identity, it states that he already knows the answer, and manifests in the resplendent form depicted above. Unfortunately, even this encounter with “God” was not enough to truly sway Peter from his inner anguish, and out of pure desperation, he and Mary Jane give up their marriage to the demon Mephisto (who claims that their marriage was made holy in “the eyes of He who I hate most” and that thus erasing it would be a triumph beyond all others for him).

    The gods of Zenn-La refer to a First Mover who ignited the fire cosmic and by its light brought “orbit, organization, and order” to the universe from a beginning of primal chaos, and who extrapolated the End Times being heralded by the Nil Star. As the alien deity Glory threatened to absorb and destroy Thor during the events of Chaos War, Donald Blake and Becca Steinhardt were able to, through a united prayer, call out to the power of the “creator of all men and gods” that resided within “each and every one” of humanity, power sufficient to destroy Glory himself from within.

    [edit] References

    ^ Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four #72 (1968)
    ^ Religious Affiliation of the Watcher, Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #14
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #44
    ^ Strange Tales #123 (1964), Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange (vol. 3) #90
    ^ Tomb of Dracula #52 (Dec. 1977)
    ^ Wolverine: Volume 2 #13-16
    ^ Marvel Appendix: Ba’al and Hand of God
    ^ Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #4
    ^ Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 (Feb. 1992), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four Annual #23 (1990), Marvel Comics
    ^ The Mighty Thor Annual #14 (1989), Marvel Comics
    ^ Thor Annual 2000, 2000, Marvel Comics
    ^ Marvel: The End #1 – 6 (May – Aug. 2003)
    ^ Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004)
    ^ Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #6, Marvel Comics
    ^ The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007)
    ^ “One More Day” — Amazing Spider-Man #544; Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24; The Sensational Spider-Man #41 and Amazing Spider-Man #545 (Oct. 2007 – Jan. 2008), Marvel Comics
    ^ Chaos War: Chaos King #1
    ^ Chaos War: Thor #2, Marvel Comics

    • Alright guys, you might get a kick out of this :), because I have some information that might prove the One Above All is faster than Goku, and could also proves that Eternity, the Living Tribunal, and the Beyonder are faster as well. It may be a stretch, but I am willing to listen to any logical contradictions based on information you have gathered.

      All of the information I have obtained relate to the information given to us on their physiology and how it provides them an extra layer of defense against physical AND metaphysical attacks (with the latter being to some extent).

      • Trust me, you’re not gonna find anything on that. TOAA is just barely faster than Stan Lee…if he is at all. That’s probably up for debate.

      • @Archangel Agreed! I have a theory that TOAA, the Presence, Man of Miracles, and all other omnipotent beings could be one, true omnipotent being with different faces.

      • Well, here’s where thing like that can be proven false (if only for the other three). It all starts with dimensions.

        In spite of the great speed of characters like Goku and Bass, they still must abide by the fundamental forces that govern their world. Though there are some attributes offered and denied to other universes (such as ki, the force, cosmic energy, and the speed force), most of them work in tandem with the conceptual forces of space, matter, gravity, and (most importantly) time.
        As one might imagine, seen as how both the Dragon Ball and the Megaman Manga series are involved with their version of planet Earth, they reside on a 3-dimensional reality, one in which the dimensions are length, width, and depth.

        *(This seems boring at first, but it’ll get more interesting)*

        Basically, because of their physiology and being residents of an existential world of 3-dimensions, they’re beings that are forced to abide by the laws of linear space time.
        However, their are few being that can surpass this limit in space-time. The one most notable for doing so is Flash, due to his connection with the speed force. Via his immense speed, he was capable of transcending the time barrier and traveled to another timeline.
        Unfortunately, characters like Goku and Bass are puppets to time due to their realized state. Regardless of what actions they take in their timeline, they only assist the flow of time rather than pitting against it. Therefore, regardless of how fast they are in their realities, they will still be slower than time.

        So…what does this have to do with Goku being slower than the Living Tribunal? Well, that’s where things get interesting.

        Where Goku and Bass are restricted by time, many of the cosmic entities in marvel are not.
        As shown here, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Master Order, and Master Chaos are in realm beyond time and space. More specifically, in a “16th-dimensional domain at the juncture of Multiversal super-space”.

        http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/00/The_Living_Tribunal_in_16-dimensional_space.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141212154547

        What better a place for space deities to hang out 🙂
        This provides a little foresight on why so many cosmic entities are immortal.

        For a 3-dimensional entity, one added dimension in their domain wouldn’t be too much to handle. Though, once that domain receives a FIFTH dimension, that’s where you see the difference. With this added dimension, your perception of anything greater than 3-dimensions is very confused and the environment itself would feel like hell. The object or person you are looking at would be beyond your comprehension, as a 3-dimensional subject is beyond that of a 2-dimensional entity’s perception and effectiveness. In addition to that, they don’t follow the same laws as Goku and Bass do. They are beyond linear time and 3-D distance, as well as the concepts of speed.
        Therefore, from a lower-dimensional viewpoint, they have much greater speed.

        That being said, it surprises me how thorough the writers were with these stories when a great majority of them were created before Dragon Ball first aired and before Megaman got his first game. The narration practically explains everything that’s going on to make sure readers aren’t misinterpreting the events incorrectly. Really puts into perspective the amount of changes employed as time went on.

      • So, your whole argument comes down to the whole dimensions thing. I still say that a good 3D character can take out anyone. There’s a reason why all of these cosmic dudes ultimately decide to become 3D fighters. It’s because 3D is the way to play and has the best physical action. Going to the 16th dimension may be a nice place to hang out, but it’s not somewhere to fight. Theoretical speed from this can be cool, but Goku still has all of the real feats so he’s much faster than TOAA. Time can do what it can to stop him, but it can’t nullify his speed. TOAA can try to move beyond time, but Goku will already be there.

      • Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you’re comment DarkLK.
        I was responding to the Dreager1’s with the introduction.

      • as you where saying, TOAA is not bound my logic ether. he can make something he can’t lift and then lift it. he can take away his powers so he has no powers but still have powers. and i never noticed the LT two or 3 faces

      • They will if they are facing off against foes who can.

        Also, the whole dimensions thing is partially due to my newly acquired interest in quantum physics.

        Hooray for learning!

  4. I don’t know why you are so bent-out-of-shape over the One-Above-All.
    He’s a good guy.
    No…Actually, he’s a GREAT guy. This was especially evident during his encounter with Peter Parker.

    He was kind enough to talk to him and assist him in his life struggles.
    He eased his tension over Aunt May’s life threatening condition.
    He healed his hands when he punched a dumpster out of frustration.
    He treated him to a meal.
    He took him on a journey through time to explain suffering.
    He even laid bare the countless innocent souls Peter saved as Spider-man to remind him of his righteousness. He reminded him of the lives he changed, the people he saved, and hearts he inspired for years.

    I understand if you’re not convinced that the One-Above-All is the all-powerful character of Marvel, but I just don’t see why. Marvel is obviously trying to make it evident that he is the mighty creator of the Multiverse. The Heart of the Universe, the encounter with Peter, his discussion with the Fantastic Four in Heaven, his incorporeal form, his love for all of the Multiverse’s inhabitants, and his MANY subtle references seem to make his status reasonable.
    I mean, why WOULDN’T you like him? He’s super powerful AND he’s a super cool guy.
    Do you have something against the One-Above-All?

    People have thrown a lot of words at you, but I actually want to “talk” in order to understand.

    *As a side note, the ability to create anything is an OP power to have in a fight B) *

    • Eh, I don’t dislike TOAA. He is a nice guy as you’ve mentioned and I do like that he talks such a good game. It shows that he still has some humanity left in him. It’s great that he’s a man of the people and I could picture him saying “Feel the Bern” as he supports the working class. That being said, he’s a man who’s all talk and for that kind of character I prefer to see some arrogance and overconfidence in the mix. TOAA just doesn’t play his cards all that well in that regard. If you’re going to be a nice guy, then you’ve gotta do something. If you’re gonna be more antagonistic and mean, then you’ve also gotta do something. He makes everyone else do the work.

      I don’t particularly like TOAA, but I do find him to be funny. I have nothing against the guy. I find him to be extremely weak, that’s all.

      I don’t think creating things is a great thing to have though. You can make swords and stuff, but destructive abilities are always a whole lot more useful to have.

      • C’mon Dreager1. Use your head 🙂
        What kind of omnipotent creator/father would he be if he had to solve ALL of the problems his children have?
        Moreover, why would he want to physically harm the very children he created and loves with his own power? I think he’d look like a pretty bad father. lol

        For instance, TOAA came to Peter because he was on the verge of a complete fallout that would result in him hanging up his mask. Can you imagine the MU without a Spider-man?
        I can. It’s bad 😦
        That’s why he stepped in. One of his most heroic and pure heroes was in a state of conflict that could mean his end. He needed to step in to make sure his place in the universe was preserved. If he didn’t, there was a strong possibility that those thousands of people he showed peter would be somewhere else.

        Either way, is it really safe to assume the One-Above-All is weak? I mean, if the guy can create beings capable of destroying universes, why wouldn’t he be able to enhance his OWN powers to an even higher degree.
        If I had omnipotence, I’d try my hand in that.

        As for the whole creation thing, you’re thinking too small.
        You need to be more imaginative dude!
        With that kind of power, you can manifest ANYTHING you want into reality.

        You could create a barrage of supernovas. (*In case you didn’t know, the strongest supernova destroyed a galaxy.)

        You could create white holes. (*In case you didn’t know this too, white holes are singularities that expel vast energy indefinitely.)

        You could create an impenetrable force field that is skin tight around your body.

        You could create impenetrable armor on your body capable of flying faster than the speed.

        With creation of that magnitude, the possibilities are endless.
        You can remake your physical body with infinite strength, speed, reflexes, stamina, and superpowers in general.
        If you can make a reality with infinite layers, infinity shouldn’t be an obstacle for you.
        THINK ABOUT IT!
        You could recreate a composite body for yourself with the Kamehameha, Double Vanishing World, and Rasengan multiplied by 1,000,000!

        Why should creation be limited to outside one’s body? Why can’t one use the power of creation more…well…creatively? With experience, it seems like a cool idea one would have.

      • …A…are…are we still talking about my comment on the power of creation and TOAA?

      • Yes, or at least I think so. All right, well here’s the rest of the response to the original comment.

        Well, it’s safe to assume that TOAA is weak. He’s basically an old man who can fly and create stuff. Look, I like TOAA as much as the next guy, but I just wish he could at least shave off 20 years and be given a baseball bat someday. That would help a lot. We can theorize about how he can maybe use his powers to increase his own abilities, but it’s never been shown so I have to assume that he just can’t do that. It’s not exactly in the guy’s wheelhouse.

        Creation is all well and good, but give me a cool anime sword and some decent speed or strength any day. I’d just speedblitz the guy before any of those created threats could do much. I wouldn’t mind having creation abilities if I was in a world of ordinary people though. I could materialize a slice of pizza every morning and dissolve the fat as I eat. It would be pretty gnarly.

      • Ohohohohohohooooooo….
        You are soooooo wrong.

        Yes, the one above all is old, but he is most certainly not a man or mortal. His body is incorporeal and immortal. It has no definitive shape or gender. He can alter it into whatever he wants. Be it and old man, an all-encompassing cyclone of energy, a white specter, or Jack Kirby.
        You call yourself an expert on TOAA, yet you still think he’s an old man. Again, TOAA chose that form in order to blend in with the crowd. He can be whatever he wants to be. The artist just decided to go with that form in order to further address what I’ve been telling you. You shouldn’t rely so heavily of one’s outward appearance in order to figure out how powerful they are. With all the anime you watch, I thought you would know that.
        Besides, if we can assume TOAA cannot enhance his powers, then we can just as easily say Cell couldn’t destroy a solar system, seen as how he never pulled it off.

        Anyway, why can’t TOAA enhance his own abilities? If he can create a multiverse of superpowered beings, enhancing his own powers would be a breeze. In fact, characters capable of enhancing the powers of others are just as capable of enhancing their own. Seen as how TOAA’s physiology relieves him of mortal limitations, he should be able to enhance his body with even greater ease.

        Dude, if you have the power of creation, you can create an entire army of characters with strength, speed, and sword skills. Better yet, you could give yourself indestructible armor that turns you into a one man army. Better still, you could recreate your body to be stronger and faster than anything or anyone.
        What idiot with the power to create an invincible body for themselves waits to do it while in combat? If I had that power, I would recreate my body with infinite…EVERYTHING and make it my definitive body all the time.

        Yet, you would belittle your capabilities to materializing pizza when you could recreate yourself as the most devastating force in existence.
        Like I said before, you think too small.
        You have the power of creation.
        BE CREATIVE!!!

        Also…Heart of the Universe…
        Fraction of the One-Above-All’s power…
        It dominated every hero and villain.

        …Just say’n. :/

      • The One Above All has never shown that he was anything but an old man. I’m just stating the facts here. He can alter his shape and turn incorporal, but there’s a reason why we’ve never seen him turn into Tom Cruise. It’s simply beyond his wheelhouse. If he could turn into a more youthful version of himself, that would help exponentially in his blog fights.

        I am the world’s leading expert on TOAA to be honest. I’ve blogged about him than quite possibly anyone else in existence. I have to use his outward appearance to judge him because it’s all that we have to go on at this point. I don’t want to do that….he just doesn’t even give me a choice. The Cell analogy doesn’t work because we’ve seen Cell fight and know what he can do. With TOAA, it’s all just heresay and at this point, it feels like that’s always the case with him. Time and time again…it’s just empty words and bluffs from the guy. Just because he should be able to do something doesn’t mean that he actually can do it.

        I’d rather give myself pizza if I had such power. Imagine eating all that you ever wanted without having to get up from bed. I’d just take naps and eat all day for the rest of my life. I can picture a nice pepperoni slice right now and it feels glorious. The flavors all blend into one incredible dish. Honestly, I get the chills just thinking about it!

      • Yes he has.
        He’s had several appearances posing as different beings each time. One in which he took the appearance of a young man/woman. It obviously isn’t beyond his willpower to become whatever he wants to be.
        Besides, if he can comprehend infinity, his mind must be stronger than most.

        No your not.
        If you were, you would know the TOAA has had more visual appearances than just that one.
        We already know a fraction of his might had the power to destroy realities when we learned of the Heart of Creation. Again, what kind of omnipotent father would he be if he had to step in EVERY time his children had a problem?
        Do you even know how many appearances he’s had?

        You’re thinking too small again.
        If I had the power of creation, I would create a superpower that would rival all others and give it to myself. In conjunction with that, I would recreate my body with infinite speed, stamina, strength, energy projection, regeneration, and automatic reflexes for battles.
        With creation of that magnitude, I could recreate my self as the strongest being to ever exist.

      • Show me a scan of him being a young man/woman.

        TOAA has had a few interesting visual appearances, but they never seem to help him in the long run. The Heart of the Universe is great and all, but I want to see TOAA grab a gun and show us how to use it. He needs to get on offense and stat! Right now he’s just taking too long to do anything.

        I think you’re taking the power too seriously. Why would you want all of those abilities in everyday life? Unlimited pizza would be something that I could use to brag with at work and it could help me study really well when necessary. Why be the strongest when you can be the coolest?

      • geez guys! i go for one week to program and boom! i get spammed with stuff! and TOAA is just infinitely powerful. think! you could remake time and space how you like it. scarlett johansson could be your girlfriend!

      • Ask and you shall receive:

        The Heart of the Universe proves he is powerful because it is HIS power synthesized into an energy conduit that rivaled all other beings in reality. It was already established in Marvel: The End. Once again, he intervened to ensure all life was balanced.
        Again, what kind of omnipotent father would he be if he had to step in EVERY time his children face a problem? If one plans to characterize God, one needs to do it right.

        So…you don’t deny the fact that you could become invincible with the power of creation. Look, I’m just stating the facts here. You are severely underestimating creation. If a fictional character has the power to manifest anything into existence along with great wisdom of reality, they’re practically unbeatable.
        In response to your other question, I’ll ask you a question…
        Why can’t you be both? 😉

        Also, this: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Omnipotence

      • Fair enough, but he and she still appears to be incorporeal at that point. We need TOAA to be physical so he can have better battle potential in hand to hand fights. TOAA shouldn’t step in every time, just enough to prove that he can fight. I’d settle for once a month or even once a year. Not, once every 60+ years.

        I mean, you could be both, but why would you want to be invincible? Life doesn’t really have a bunch of super villains knocking on the door. Pizza’s all you really need and you could use the second part for unlimited refills. Can’t decide on whether to have Pepsi or Mountain Dew? Now you can have both and 0 calories to boot. That sounds pretty awesome if you ask me.

        The power of omnipresence and omnipotence is great in concept, but it’s still no good in a fight. It’d like telepathy, mind control, time stop, and a few other abilities. They’re cool to think about, but on the blog you may as well be powerless if you have those. You need something more tangible.

      • Y’see, that’s what you fail to realize. A powerful being doesn’t always need to have the ability to punch someone out. Often times, they just need the power to effect the game itself in a way that is inconvenient to the opponent. Power like that usually helps one in a fight.
        Anyway, why would TOAA want to FIGHT in any matters pertaining to his children.

        I was speaking in a hypothetical sense. My point is that a fictional character capable of manifesting any idea into actuality is OP as heck.

        How are powers like time stop and telepathy bad in a fight? Few can transcend time and telepathy has more techniques than you realize. Powers don’t always have to be tangible in order to be powerful. If anything, their intangibility makes them greater than most powers. There is no visual indication of there being an attack and users can continue to develop them with practice.

        Also, the concept of omnipotence and omnipresence were developed before you were even born. They are used to describe something limitless.
        How exactly would you define omnipotence?

      • I realize the concept of it, but also acknowledge that it means the cosmic being has yet to prove himself. Altering the game is like cheating. It looks cool, but you end up losing in the end anyway. TOAA should throw a punch at Spider-Man to remind him how noble the hero once was. He should wrestle Iron-Man to the ground to remind him that he shouldn’t drink too much beer. Etc. He could be a good father figure who isn’t afraid to lay down the law once in a while.

        Well, Telepathy is all about will power. The way I see it, it’ll only be effective on someone you could have defeated normally. If the opponent is too powerful for you physically, then it’s not going to work anyway. Effectively the same thing on time stop.

        I’d say that Omnipotence is being everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Effectively it’s an instant loss unless you can turn off that power and have something else to back it up. Like an energy sword or something.

      • If he did that, then he wouldn’t make a good God now would he?

        Also, will power doesn’t translate into physical power. A character can be both powerful and weak willed. Strengthening your body may assist your mind in some categories, but only by being able to directly strengthen your mental resistance can you resist mind control.
        In actuality a character needs to have training against such attacks. They need to have experience against telepathy and must develop a defense against it. Even then, all telepaths do not have the same level of expertise.
        Some can control the minds of multiple targets.
        Some can even effect an entire planet.
        Basically, no matter how strong you make your body, you can only strengthen your mind against telepathy with experience. Just because your offensive muscles get stronger doesn’t mean your mind will go in the same direction. Your mind is still the same unless you enhance in some way.

        …You just described omnipresence.
        Omnipotence means you have no limit to you power, not your location.

      • He could still be a good meta person. Put it this way, say you are always telling everyone that they should eat Domino’s pizza, but you don’t because you like Papa Johns…does that make you a bad person? Beating up his creations would be a nice sign of power, it wouldn’t make TOAA look bad.

        Will power is basically physical power. I never bought into the whole weak will thing. If you’re really strong, then your mind is also really strong. Someone like Goku or Superman would be impervious to any kind of mental attack.

        Whoops. Well, yeah Omnipotence means you can do just about anything. Snap your fingers and you can blow everything up

      • Technically, it would.
        Y’see, God chooses not to interfere directly with matters that concern us because he knows our struggles are what make us stronger. TOAA refuses to interfere unless the situation is dire because he wants his creations to still have the power to evolve and learn.
        Besides, if he wants to invoke his wrath, he can just hit’em with some good-o’l-fashion karma right?

        No it’s not.
        Goku and Superman are training their bodies to enhance their fighting physique. In order to strengthen their minds, they need to spend time focusing on that same category.
        Willpower and regular power are two different things. A character has never developed the ability to resist telepathy by enhancing their physical power alone.

        Characters like Magneto and Doom are evidence of that.

      • That’s an optimistic way of looking at it though. It could just be as my original hypothesis stated. TOAA is scared. He may know how to create, but he doesn’t know how to fight. That’s why he doesn’t want to challenge these guys, he knows that he would get schooled and sent back home by Wolverine and Spider-Man. Maybe he knows that he can’t beat them and that’s why he has to resort to threats and hiding in the power cosmic.

        I still never bought into that. If you’re tough physically then you’re also tough mentally. Nobody’s going to be able to kick you around if you don’t want to be kicked. It just makes sense. For example, Jean Grey can try to mentally attack Strawhat Luffy all she wants, but he’ll just break free with his physical power and take her down.

      • That doesn’t seem plausible at all.
        If that were the case, then he wouldn’t be able to confront Thanos and Adam Warlock? Both of them could kick Wolverine to the curb.
        Why was he brave enough to enter the battlefield Beta Ray Bill was beaten in and save him Asteroth?
        Do you have any basis for this wild conspiracy theory? Because you’ve made a lot of assumptions without any means to back them up.
        On a lighter note, I thought we already established creation was an OP power to have.

        Dude, telepathic resistance isn’t something that can be achieved that easily. You need to train your mind to resist mental attacks, not just your offensive muscles.
        Blocking telepathic control with physical attacks makes no sense. No character has ever done without training their psyche to resist mental attacks mentally. You can’t block an attack that’s intangible unless you have trained your mind to resist it or you have some sort of metaphysical defense.
        It’s an idea that’s been verified by numerous writers for generations.

      • Well, it’s possible that these guys are also buying into the hype. They haven’t called TOAA’s bluff because nobody else has. It’s like a mob mentality, you just believe the guy at the front. Hercule from DBZ exploits this for profit and TOAA does as well, just to a less exaggerated degree. My basis for this is that TOAA has never thrown a single punch. Marvel has been around for decades and yet TOAA has never directly attacked someone. That is extremely suspicious if you ask me. Just think about it….kinda sketchy eh? I’d say that it’s very plausible. That being said, he is meant to have earned his title in the comics so alternately you can say that he is the strongest in universe. He just falls all the way to the bottom once you leave it.

        We established that in our ordinary world the power of creation would be awesome. I’d like to have unlimited pizza and soft drinks as much as the next senior citizen, but in a fighting fictional world then it’s not going to cut it. You want a more physical power. I’d recommend something like what Kirito has got. Super Speed and strength all rolled into one with a nice healing factor to round it all out. Now there’s a character who has got it made!

        I just can’t get on board with that. How I see it, if you are physically stronger than the person is mentally strong, then you’ve got the edge. I’d use another pizza example but I don’t want to be repetitive. Say Professor Xavier tried to paralyze Superman mentally so he could be safe. In my head canon, Superman just grins and flexes his muscles. The power is too much and Xavier’s grip on him is released. That’s basically how I picture it going. If you’re strong enough, then you have nothing to fear from telepathic abilities. It’s still good of course for mind controlling people who are weaker than you, but that’s about it.

      • If that’s the case, can we assume God is weak too?

        Also, TOAA could just make himself stronger by CREATING a physical body with infinite power his incorporeal body can inhabit. Seen as how he’s omniscience, he could perceive what his opponent can do and give the body defense against that. Why should unlimited creation be limited. If he can create infinity, it shouldn’t be a problem.

        That’s not how willpower works at all.
        Your head canon makes no sense at all.
        How would making your offensive muscles make you mentally stronger. It makes more sense to actually train your mind instead of your body.
        Making yourself physically stronger does not make you strong enough to resist mental attacks. From the sound of it, I don’t think you understand willpower at all. Those concepts were created decades ago.
        Do you have anything to prove a physically weak character can’t have willpower? Because I can list SEVERAL weak characters who can, along with several strong characters who can’t.
        In fact, Superman HAS been placed under telepathic attack SEVERAL TIMES!

        See here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/superman-165/superman-s-mental-stregnth-1640607/

      • The one in the comics? That would basically be TOAA so then absolutely. In fiction we can’t make any assumptions of strength without proof. In effect, it’s like guilty until proven innocence as opposed to the other way around. TOAA can’t just make himself super strong by will, it would be too tricky for him. At the most he could just make himself invincible, but he’d likely run into the same exact problems again as there would be no proof. The reason unlimited creation is limited is because everything has limits. Some comics and anime may try to suggest that their characters don’t have limitations, but we know that this cannot be correct. It’s simply not possible. Bass is the closest thing to infinite and even he isn’t at that level.

        My head canon is a little tricky, but think of it this way. In many shows and comics, characters break out of mind control with the power of friendship. Usually it’s a really cheesy moment, but it can be played seriously as well. In effect, the characters just shrugs off the mind control. They do it with a burst of emotion and I’m just saying that you can do it physically as well. If you’re stronger than your opponent, then you simply won’t be affected. Weak characters can break free as well of course with the power of friendship and their own telepathic abilities, but essentially anyone can. It’s hard to find evidence of a weak willed person breaking free since the whole point is usually for shock value to be included. All of the Superman scenes fall in that category.

        My one example comes from one of the greatest scenes in all of media history, Vegeta breaks free from Babidi’s control.

        He basically just powers up and flexes until he’s able to shatter it. It’s one of the most powerful moments in television and the scene gives everyone the chills whenever it’s played.

      • To name a few WERE successful in controlling Superman’s mind: Maxwell Lord, the Insect Queen, Martian Manhunter, Eclipso, and Poison Ivy pulled it off.

        Just say’n…

      • You probably already know my response to that, but I’ll go along with it anyway. Those instances were all filled with plot hax. None of them could ever hope to control Superman. His mind is far too sharp for that.

  5. *Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*….
    I’ve already established that Marvel: The End covered this. The Heart of the Universe IS the TOAA’s power (albeit a small fraction of it). Just use your scaling to multiply that by the amount of universes in the Marvel Multiverse and that’s how powerful he is.

    No, dude. You’re wrong in that regard.
    Willpower against mental attacks is something that is directly effected by your mental vitality not your physical vitality.
    Vegeta’s instance wasn’t due to his power. It was due to his obsession with beating Goku.
    He was capable of MENTALLY besting Babidi’s mind control (albeit barely) due to his one-track-minded goal of proving he is stronger than Goku.
    It was his overwhelming pride that saved him.
    It NOTHING to do with physical power. The only reason why he strained his aura and power was due to how mental stimuli provokes outward behavior. It was obviously torture on his psyche. It’s shown in multiple mediums!
    Besides, Babidi still managed to turn Vegeta into a monster. His powers work by using the evil sustained withing beings and using that to transform them into his pets. Why else do you think he didn’t try it on Goku. He has no evil Babidi can exploit.
    Vegeta didn’t comply due to his arrogance, his rivalry, and his inferiority complex.
    In addition to that, Babidi isn’t even a strong telepath. Anyone who relies on a magical object in order to take control of other beings can barely hold up to the stronger telepaths that can due it their SLEEP.
    I’m being serious…
    There are telepaths that can use their powers in their sleep.
    Sometimes they do it by accident!
    I bet he can’t even take control of a continental population with that useless trinket.

    Anyway, you do realize Goku has been subjected to mind control before right?

    • We can’t scale that because HOTU is more of a weapon than anything. It’d be like saying that Samus is SSS tier in Brawl because her Zero Laser is awesome. It’s just an attack/a weapon. Nothing more. We have to see more than that to make any reasonable assumptions. I still need to see him try and punch something.

      Willpower is totally affected by physical power. Vegeta’s efforts weren’t for show, nor were they purely from pain. He was physically nullifying the effects, which shows that he’s got the skills to pay the bills. Lets say it was just will power though, it doesn’t affect anything. It just goes to show that any strong fighter can break out if he/she wants too. Vegeta’s honor and pride serves him well, but so could the other characters as well. Throw in Spongebob Squarepants and his fortitude could come from something simple like “Hey, How are ya?” “Nice weather today” or it could be for a burger. Whatever the reason, that’s why I don’t put much stock in telepathy and those sort of abilities. I do prefer direct telepathy to using objects as well. It feels more real and on the level.

      Plot hax.

    • IT’S NOT….

      *Inhales deeply*….

      It’s not a weapon. It’s an energy source that is a part of TOAA. Thanos was able to use it because he was destined to do so.
      Even if it is a weapon, that doesn’t take away from the fact that it is a part of TOAA’s power.
      You can still scale from it.

      No, you don’t don’t understand willpower at all.
      Your defying a principle that has been verified and implemented for decades.
      Your like a guy denying the fact that world is round in spite of their being evidence and scientific explanations that support it.
      It WAS from pain. Just look at him convulsing on the ground as he struggles to break free.

      That excuse has no prevalence in this discussion.

      • We can’t scale from that. It’s not the same and what would be the point? So, TOAA in his all above power made a portion of his power tangible and then it could also mess with reality just as much as he could. Is that really any more impressive than his own abstract feats from the past? I don’t really think so, it’s just more of the same. What we need is a solid haymaker or at least a left hook. That would make quite the difference if you ask me and it would help him win the fight.

        There actually is a sub reddit for people who believe that the world is flat. That being said, telepathy on this scale isn’t even an ability that people can just look out and prove on their own so this example isn’t quite as extreme. I’m saying that it wasn’t all pain. The aura and powering up actually helped him break free because it’s important to use physical might as well. Just because a lot of people agree on the concept of telepathy, doesn’t mean that they actually know what they’re talking about. The mental aspect of it makes sense which is why everyone’s a little puzzled about this, but it just goes to show that you can’t win em all.

        There’s no other explanation for how Goku could be controlled at all. That’s just DB Super throwing nonsense at us again. Goku’s too strong for telekinesis or any telepathy ability. He’s too powerful!!

    • The Heart of the Universe gave Thanos physical and metaphysical power that surpassed EVERY being in Marvel effortlessly. He had power that could destroy universes via energy and physical attacks.
      If that is only a fraction of TOAA’s power, it definitely provides evidence.

      How dare you.
      Don’t act like you know better than the rest of the world.
      There are people around the globe who are FAR smarter than both of our brains combined, both in literature and other categories. There are also people who have been doing this longer than you and have developed far more competent concepts than the one’s you conceived. Most of them support my explanation.
      You don’t have any right to say you know better. Especially if you barely know about the character you downplay.

      Who said anything about Dragon Ball Super? 😉

      • Plz understand. It’s still not enough to make a judgment based on that. We need something a little more firm. Also, the HOTU was still pretty meta so it’s not a great feat. Again, show me a scan of TOAA throwing a punch and I think we can get somewhere.

        I’m not saying that I know better, but at least on par. Trust me, I’m an expert in so much stuff that it boggles the mind.

        Super’s just the most notable for nonsense happening so I assumed it was from there

      • You could easily see how much power it offered to both Thanos and Akhenaten in durability, strength, speed, and energy projection. If they were able to perform these feats using TOAA’s power, it’s safe to assume his full power is great.
        It is very easy to understand. TOAA took a fraction of his power and gave it to the universe. It’s not that hard to comprehend.
        We’ve seen characters from Dragon Ball and other mediums do it too. For instance, Goku gave some of his energy to a bird in order to heal it. The same thing was shown when the Z-Fighters gave their energy to Goku in order to help him defeat Broly.
        TOAA did the same thing. He was kind enough to give some of HIS omnipotent power to the universe in order to heal it and everyone who inhabited it.
        It IS enough to make a judgment.

        Nope, Goku was subjected to mental attacks before Super aired.
        He doesn’t usually face any foes with that ability so he never really bothered to learn how to defend against it. Goku has some weaknesses that can be exploited. All heroes eventually find something they can’t overcome. Luckily, there aren’t that many powerful telepathic individuals that’ll try taking him on.
        It’s fine to have some weaknesses like that. You just gotta cope with the fact that some characters aren’t perfect.

        The point is that your interpretation of willpower deviates from what it actually is. It spurns from mental vitality entirely.
        Everything you are saying goes against something irrefutable. You’re no different that the idiots claiming climate changes are null and void. Similarly to that instance, you’re denying a concept that has been implemented and confirmed for generations. If some of the greatest writers and philosophers of the world are on board with my explanation, why should your false interpretation even be taken seriously?

        However, what I’m more concerned with is the fact that you don’t know about the two instances where Goku shows his vulnerability to mind control in spite of boasting of your vast knowledge of the series. I’m humble enough to say that I’m not the most hardcore DBZ fan, but I still remember this.

      • It’s still not the same as actually using the power though. We need to see TOAA actually do something. I mean, Goku could easily give a portion of his power to someone and it would have the same effect. We still couldn’t really scale that though which is the issue. Once TOAA actually throws a mean punch, then it’ll mean more. As of now it still seems like he’s just an old man who can fly.
        Goku has no weaknesses. Not every character has a weakness. Take Thor, Bass, Naruto, Sasuke, Vegeta, etc. They’re just strong all around characters. The only way to beat them is to just be stronger and that’s really a tough feat to accomplish. Goku won’t be stopped by a mental attack because his power is simply too great. It’s like an ant challenging a Tiger.

        I can’t say that the professionals have it right this time. It’s not as if the philosophers had super human abilities so they could verify their theories. Also, remember that a lot of them thought that the world was flat. Just thought I should throw that in there. My interpretation should always be taken seriously because my track record speaks for itself. I’m in the top 30 Pokemon Go Sprint players worldwide. I made it to the top 10 in Draglade. I’ve been Silver Rank in Super Sm4sh every time I enter the season ranks and I do it in one clean shot. I’ve published over 10000 posts on this site and have been wrecking everyone in other sites like Factpile, Outskirts Battle Dome, and even the MVC Lounge. I do all of that before Breakfast!

        I’m a little concerned with that as well. Keep in mind that I didn’t watch/read Dragon Ball because I consider that series to be a bit of a stain in the franchise. I only stick to DBZ and everything after that. So, I’m one of the biggest DBZ fans of all time no question, but I won’t know about some events. Also, plot hax is very real so we have to factor that in. Remember when the manga tried to get us to believe that Mystic Gohan was possibly stronger than SSJ3 Goku? Luckily I never bought into that story

      • He did use the power. He used it fulfill the destiny he placed on Thanos to cure the cosmic cancer in the universe. Of course you can scale from it. You just need to look at the effect it had when it was use by Thanos. Like I said before, it was his power being used by someone else. It’s easier to scale in this instance because that power was used against Marvel’s finest heroes and villains.
        We could say the same for Goku if he did the same thing. If his ONLY achievement was taking some of his ki and giving it to the universe, which was then used to destroy all twelve universes and offer its user vast speed, strength, durability, and energy on a multiversal scale, we could assume Goku’s maximum potential is multversal in almost every aspect right?

        Why do you keep calling TOAA and old man?
        I have already told you that he can take whatever form he wishes. I even gave you scan of him as two different genders. He’s appeared as different being before hasn’t he?

        Why don’t they have it right?
        Aristotle confirmed the world’s roundness between 384 and 322 BC, LOOOOONG before the discovery of America. The whole debate over Earth’s true orientation was just an event sprung from people who were either seeking attention or lacking basic competence. The few people who suggested this idea were as unfamiliar with the world as you are with Arda. Eventually, this controversial debate was perceived as idiotic and we finally settled for the fact that the Earth is round.
        This is completely different instance. The Earth’s roundness was verified by proof found by astronomers and astronauts. For telepathy and telepathic willpower, it was the long line of people from generations of work that CREATED the proof. They conceived the idea of telepathy and defenses against it. These ideas are henceforth implemented to this day by movie artists, television producers, comic artist, and myself.

        On a side note, why should your track record on Pokemon Go, Draglade, Super Sm4sh Bros, Factpile, Outskirts Battle Dome, and your 10,000 posts have any prevalence in this? None of these instances gives you greater knowledge of what we are discussing. None of these instances even pertain to the fictions we were discussing. Just because you’re good in a few fields that cater to your recreational interests doesn’t mean you’re one of the top experts in the world on other fields. Experts on all things in video games are different from experts on all things in physics and philosophy. You can’t honestly say you’re an expert in one field just because you’re an expert in another.

        A stain? Dragon Ball was awesome!
        Not only was it the story that started it all, but it was a point in which villains and death had more meaning. I’ll never forget how kid Goku took on the Red Ribbon Army 😀
        Also, Goku already established that Gohan had more potential that him as a teen. It only makes sense that putting Gohan’s power on full throttle would make him insanely strong. That coupled with the fact that he was enhanced by a Kai with far more knowledge in power that both of them combined easily makes this point clear. It finally gave us a glimpse of the power that was unknown to us, yet crystal clear to Goku. Even HE was shocked when he saw his son transform.
        If Goku hadn’t met Beerus, Gohan would be the strongest character in the series if he kept training after his fight with Buu.

      • It’s still not the same as him physically doing something. TOAA has yet to beat someone like Spider-Man, let alone Goku. Just because HOTU did more meta, vague cosmic stuff, doesn’t mean that TOAA has this level of power.

        I just call him an old man because that’s the form that TOAA typically uses. I realize that he can also appear as other forms, but that’s his iconic look and it’s not as if he has ever used abilities beyond that.

        Trust me, it wasn’t just a few people. A lot of people thought that the world was flat. Also, I posted those feats just to let you know that I’m a very versatile expert. As for kid Dragon Ball, it just had too much objectionable content if you ask me. Still, it made more sense than Super, I’ll give you that.

        As for Gohan, he was definitely always powerful, but I’d say that Goku was never surpassed by him. He was always stronger, he just didn’t want to disappoint his son. That’s why he’s such a good character

  6. i would like to point out a few more holes in your logic. you said that TOAA doesn’t know how to fight, but he is omnipotent, and you said being omnipotent you are everything but nothing. so he knows everything. and to test your logic replace TOAA with Jesus and if it doesn’t work then…..
    repost.

    • Well, TOAA knows everything and yet nothing so he really knows nothing. You have to think of it in the same abstract way that we think of the rest of his abilities. He just doesn’t know how to fight unless we actually see him do it. Otherwise, he may have noticed it with his all knowing-ness, but he is still unable to do it. It’s like watching a game of checkers and then trying to actually replay the game in your head. It’s tricky.

      • ok then goku can’t destroy a timeserver or kill a god(TOAA) because he hasn’t done it.

      • Goku has destroyed opponents though so he can still do it. If he had never attacked someone before, then we’d have a problem.

      • but he hasn’t destroyed a multiverse. so he can’t. he just doesn’t have the feats. and the Jesus thing.

      • Goku hasn’t done it, but he has feats of actually blowing stuff up which is all that he needs in this case. Just think about it, Goku has proven himself

  7. How Long Is This Going To Keep Going? For About 3 Months Now People Have Been Lingering On This One Match. It’s Absurd. And For The Record, Goku Wins Easily. One Kamehameha X100 And It’s Over For The Above Nothing.

  8. @Dreager1 *SIGH* TOAA and the Primal Monitor/Presence stomp Goku as their the supreme beings of Marvel/DC. Also, you kinda debunked yourself. You said that someone who watches another person play checkers can’t actually play checkers because there just watching it, not playing it. Well, that means Goku couldn’t destroy the Omniverse as he’s never done it. You just claim that he can. Also, if you say TOAA claims that he can fight or is hype, then you claim that Goku is the 2nd strongest being in all of media and could bust the Omniverse. That’s just hype as you need to show a scan that he could do it. It just comes back to the same old generic answers which prove nothing. I.e: Cell’s solar system busting attack, etc. Goku needs to show that he CAN destroy the Omniverse. But all he’s done at best is prove that he’s universal at his strongest. You just hyping Goku and making claims. Show ACTUAL proof he is the 2nd strongest being in all of media. Which he isn’t even close dice he’s universal at best.

    • Supreme beings of Marvel/DC don’t mean much against DBZ characters. Just think about it for a second….DBZ is on a far higher plane of power than the others. Goku on his own could crush their universes. Now, I consider this to be a separate issue. TOAA has never even punched someone so it’s reasonable to say that he can’t fight. Goku has faced off with universal threats and has proven it in his fights. It’s reasonable to say that he is extremely powerful. Again, TOAA has nothing on his side. Should I bring up the Solar System busting feat again? I could use a Super feat where Goku’s punch nearly destroyed the multiverse as well even if I don’t care for the show, it’s still a feat. Goku has a lot of hype to be sure, but he backs it up!

      • TOAA doesn’t need to. he just blinks and goku is wiped from existence. and think, with the power of creation, you can give yourself anything. anything. do you want the powers of destruction? boom, you can make them for yourself. do you want an entire multiverse made out of soda, pizza, and jello? boom you just made it in the blick of an eye

      • Goku won’t be wiped from existence unless he wants to be. Think of it as another example of will power trumping everything. TOAA can have his pizza, Goku will take the win

      • Dreager,… no character in Anime or other media with Goku’s status has ever been able to escape nonexistence. The only characters that have are those with the power to metaphysically transcend such instances with a greater connection to the structure if all reality.
        Goku does not have this. He has to abide by the laws in his universe. He must abide by gravity, order, chaos, creattion, destruction, life, death, the fundamental forces, and other laws that leave him limited.

        You can’t just say a character can do that if there is no proof of the character being able to achieve such a feat. You’re basically creating false powers and defenses out of thin air without anything to support your claims.
        Even if there is a character that can do this, that doesn’t mean Goku can too. Like I said before, there are some characters with a metaphysical connection with life, thus giving them the power to defy it. Because Goku doesn’t have that same defense, Goku can’t do it too,

      • Don’t underestimate will power and good ole American ingenuity. We see characters survive stuff like that all the time with powers of friendship and determination. Goku would be able to exist. It would be a concept of existence that is unfathomable, but he wouldn’t yield. Goku would just continue to stand strong and show us why he is one of the greatest heroes out there.

        Here’s where I’m at. TOAA is a cool guy, but he doesn’t really have any feats. He can end life or end all of media if he wants too, but that won’t mean anything in the immediate fight. He can’t wish Goku away like a bad cold even if I know that it would help him quite a lot. He just can’t get rid of Goku like that, the Saiyan is simply way too persistent. Goku doesn’t need most of his fancy abilities as his base form and a simple ki blast will suffice. TOAA can’t dodge it and he certainly can’t hope to endure it.

        TOAA’s a nice guy. He’s solid on his feet and I think he has a lot of potential to change lives. That being said, he’s just not a fighter. So for those reasons, he’s out.

  9. @Dreager1 You see again, your using the same, generic argument for all of these posts. It always comes back to the same Cell solar system busting attack. That doesn’t prove anything. You didnt even show the powerscaling from island to omniverse level with Bass last time. Also, upload the scan of Goku destroying the multiverse. Goku cannot destroy the Omniverse, period. Sure, he can go to multiversal at best, but nothing more. So Goku busting the Omniverse is another claim made by DBZtards.

    The Supreme Beings of Marvel/DC are extremely powerful. While you seem subjective to TOAA, the Primal Monitor on the other hand is another case. He sent the probe known as Anti-Monitor to the DC Multiverse.

  10. And here as shown, is the Primal Monitor at the top of the DC food chain and ranked as the highest, even higher than the Sphere of the Gods and Heaven itself:

      • wow. just wow. would you like a list of people who can beat goku and the reasons? goku would get his butt handed to him by Odin. TOAA can turn gokus blood into moltain lead. sorry i’m bad at spelling. goku has to obey the laws of physics, and stuff, but TOAA doesn’t. he can just go “f#@k you i won’t do what you tell me!”- rage ageist the machines

      • That list would be very short since only Bass and Megaman can beat Goku. Odin got wrecked by Surtur and Dr Doom, he wouldn’t last 5 seconds against Goku. TOAA can’t manipulate Goku since Goku has his aura. Goku listens to its heart and it’s telling him that TOAA is on the wrong side. Taking him out of the equation won’t be hard

      • Yes, and it proves 2 things:

        1. That Bass would get stomped.
        2. That Superman isn’t the strongest comic book character.

      • You were so close man. It proves that Bass never gets stomped and that Superman is the strongest. I know the latter can be hard to believe since he’s always losing all of the time, but he’s a lot stronger than you’d suspect at first glance.

      • i’ll give you a few right now. just ask for the reason and i’ll give it to you. just one at a time please.

        The Flash
        Superman Prime one million
        The Beyonder
        Odin
        Saitama/One Punch Man
        and
        Deadpool

      • No need, let me explain why they couldn’t win.

        Flash- He’s just not fast enough to win this round. Goku would be speed blitzing him all day every day. One punch would be the end of him.
        Superman Prime one million- while he would put up a better fight than Superman, he would be dismantled in this fight. Goku has the overwhelming edge in power and speed. A few good hits from Super Saiyan blue should suffice.
        The Beyonder- It wouldn’t be much of a fight although it would be flashy. Goku just needs to Kamehameha him away and the set is as good as won.
        Odin- Too old. He would get speed blitzed by Goku as the fight starts and one good hit would take him down.
        Saitama- He’s strong, but not quite at DBZ level yet. Goku would have no problem blasting him.
        Deadpool- Goku laughs and Deadpool dies. He can’t take the spirit energy.

      • ha.ha.ha.
        Flash- he is soooooo much faster than goku. Flash out ran death and creation its self. oh and he is faster than instant teleportation. yes. The Flash is faster than INSTANT. and he has The Infinite Mass Punch. AND he can run so fast that he is going faster than speed.

        Superman- one time he punched through the time barer. and his heat vision is about 42,600,000,000,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit (42.6 Quadrillion degrees F). for durability, Superman has survived a Supernova, and ill leave it at that, the average Supernova hits with a force of around 10 octillion megatons. This means that his durability is almost identical to his striking power. According to physics, this actually makes sense.

        The Beyonder- he is a high level reality warper. he could just warp reality so that goku’s DNA is turned into Jello. and if you say something about his aura. boom. it never existed. and he is nie-omnipotent and immortal.

        Odin- please read this

        Deadpool- he can’t die

        Saitama- he is unbeatable.

      • Yeah, but Superman is faster than Flash and Goku is faster than Flash. Trust me, it wouldn’t be much of a contest. He still gets tripped up quite a bit.

        Superman is pretty neat so I can admit to that. He’s very strong, just not as strong as Goku. I do appreciate the effort though.

        Beyonder can’t do that to Goku. Goku has his will power at the ready.

        Odin’s still too slow though.

        Tell that to Goku!

        Only Bass is unbeatable.

      • when was superman faster than flash? never. the flash is faster than speed. goku is about 1,000,000 times faster than light BUT the flash is 23,759,449,00,000,00,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than light at the very least!

        will power is not enough
        Odin is just as fast if not faster than goku. even if he was slower, he can see the future and can mind rape goku.

        saitama is unbeatable

        Deadpool will tell that to goku when he rips out his lungs.

        oh and rune lord Thor can one punch goku

      • Superman’s constantly humiliating him like that, but he’s a nice guy so he tries not to hurt Flash’s feelings. Goku is significantly faster than Superman so it gets even more lopsided at that point.

        Will power is more than enough. One punch and then it’s over.
        Odin’s very slow. He can try to run, but he can’t hide.
        Only Bass is unbeatable.
        Goku laughs and his aura can take Deadpool out.
        Rune King Thor would be running for the hills.

  11. The Primal Monitor/Presence is DC’s TOP DOG. Not Superman. Superman has been beaten by Doomsday before.
    Superman being the strongest is just your opinion. The Map of DC’s Multiverse places Primal Monitor at the top.

    • I gotta disagree there. Doomsday can’t beat Superman without the help of the writers. Superman’s just too fast to be frank. Either way, I’d put both above Presence. Keep in mind that even Robin can fight better in hand to hand

      • By that logic I can use the same argument agains Superman. He needs someone to write the story for him to beat Doomsday, and the person writing the story is The Writer/Primal Monitor/Presence( I’ve proven before they’re the same being.)

  12. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiWldzKx43TAhWC24MKHW-aAlwQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fifanboy.com%2Farticles%2Fdc-histories-the-superman-flash-races%2F&psig=AFQjCNEZnsmieiGuNucxENPanUi2RDAbeA&ust=1491490018787482
    that was for charity

    will power is not enough.
    Saitama is unbeatable
    Rune King Thor is just overkill to take on goku.
    Odin in a weakened state just the energy from a mind battle wrecked a multiverse.
    deadpool he can’t die
    all if this just shows how little you know about DC and Marvel

    • Not the example that I used though. Goku just wrecked him there.
      Will power is more than enough. One punch and then it’s over.
      Only Bass is unbeatable.
      Odin’s very slow. He can try to run, but he can’t hide.
      Goku laughs and his aura can take Deadpool out. Everyone can die.
      Rune King Thor would be running for the hills.
      I’m a comics expert!

      • On a side note, I’ve seen some people talking about someone referred to as “Cosmic Armor Superman”.

        Can someone please tell me who this is and why they are so overpowered?

      • wrong all wrong.
        deadpool CAN NOT DIE. EVER. AT ALL. NEVER.
        Odin is not slow he is mftl
        bass is not unbeatable. saitama is
        will power is NOT enough! if it is than saitama can beat goku because he has indomitable will power.
        flash is way way way faster than goku. lets see a feat of goku going faster than someone going faster than instant. and the flash can steal speed.
        Rune King Thor would god stomp goku.
        why are you just giving me the same arguments over and over? oh yeah. because goku would get god stomped by any of these guys!

        cosmic armor superman
        Adaptive
        Berserker Strength
        Energy Absorption
        Cosmic Awareness
        Dimensional Manipulation
        Divine Powers
        Flight
        Fourth Wall Breakage
        Heat Vision
        Invulnerability
        Levitation
        Plot Manipulation
        Reactive Evolution
        Super Speed
        Super Strength

      • I don’t know about that man, my logic was sound. I kept giving the same arguments because you were essentially doing the same exact thing.
        Deadpool can die. One shot from Goku would suffice.
        Bass is unbeatable, but Saitama is not. Saitama hasn’t shown that he can fight at a high level like that.
        Will power’s all you need for cosmic shenanigans. Goku has a stronger will regardless. Saitama’s is hardly strong as all since everything is so easy for him. He’s never had to try.
        Goku surpassed light when he fought Frieza and his power has grown exponentially since then.
        Rune King Thor can’t even beat Superman.

      • It’d be more useful if someone provided some kind of scan of who he is so I can see what he looks like.

      • deadpool can not die. why? he has a healing factor and he was cursed never to die.
        RKT has too many hax. he would stomp the DBZ universe.
        going faster than light is good an and all but the flash can go 23,759,449,00,000,00,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than light at the very least.

      • That’s not enough. He can still be destroyed.
        Hax can’t overwhelm pure power.
        Still not fast enough. Flash is fast tho

  13. @Dreager1 And the Great Evil Beast and the Presence were going to destroy the Omniverse/Creation if they fought, but instead they decided to merge. GEB is Omniversal!

  14. Y’know what I’ve noticed? Goku’s Kamehameha is overrated.
    As far as I can tell, whenever he uses this techniques, it either misses the enemy or it fails to finish the battle completely. To my knowledge, the Kamehameha has rarely served as a means to finish off an enemy once and for all.
    Let’s take a moment to look at Dragon Ball’s history with this particular attack.

    Vegeta vs. Goku (Saiyan Arc)
    Goku uses a kaio-ken x3 AND x4 in culmination with a Kamehameha to thwart Vegeta’s Galick gun. While he manages to damage Vegeta’s armor and send him into space, he ultimately failed due to fact that Vegeta returned stronger and angrier than ever.

    Goku vs. Frieza (Frieza Arc)
    Goku uses a kaio-ken x20 also in culmination with a Kamehameha in order to make a short comeback against Frieza when he appears to posses the upper hand. However, Frieza easily blocks it with one hand and proceeds to beat Goku mercilessly.
    He only managed to recover by using the super spirit bomb (an attack that STILL would’ve failed without Piccolo) and Frieza still had enough vigor in his body to return.

    Goku vs. Android 19 (Android Arc)
    This was a humiliating defeat for Goku as it showed even he has his shortcomings. Though Goku had the power of a Super Saiyan (a power that multiplies a saiyan’s power level 50 times), his Kamehameha was absorbed and he was eventually taken to recover from his heart disease.
    So much for saiyan vitality.

    Goku vs. Cell (Cell Games Arc)
    Though Goku was able to hold his own against Cell, his Kamehameha wave did not have the results we would hope for. During the battle, the new and improved Super Saiyan Goku uses his Kamehameha in a very resourceful manner by japing Cell into believing he would risk the planet’s demise. Goku then used instant transmission to teleport right in front of Cell to launch a Kamehameha that destroyed his upper half.
    Unfortunately, Cell was capable of regenerating his destroyed torso and was then able to continue with the battle. Though Goku did damage, Cell was more than capable of recovering from such an attack.

    *SPOILER WARNING FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T SEEN THE BUU SAGA, BATTLE OF THE GODS, OR DRAGON BALL SUPER*

    Goku vs. Buu (Buu Arc)
    When Goku first encounters Buu in his first form, he is forced to rely on what used to be his most powerful transformation: Super Saiyan 3. As the battle heats up, it would appear as though Buu is on equal terms with Goku in spite of him having achieved a stronger form. Once again, Goku uses his Kamehameha against Buu as Super Saiyan 3. And, once again, it does not end the fight. Buu easily regenerates from being damaged by the attack and proceeds to fight Goku as if nothing happened.
    Goku only managed to finish the fight with a spirit bomb that would have failed without Vegeta being there to distract Buu.

    Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of the Gods Movie)
    While on King Kai’s planet, Goku in met by Beerus, the God of Destruction. For those of you who don’t know, Beerus is a deity with power that supersedes Goku’s to this day. No one even knows what the full extent of hos power is, as he has only been shown using a fraction of it in his encounters.That being said, Beerus effortlessly overpowers Goku as a Super Saiyan 3and even withstands another Kamehameha delivered by him. At that point, Goku never stood a chance.
    The balance then shifts a little when Goku achieves a new transformation called Super Saiyan God. With this he battle Beerus across earth. However, unlike all of his other fights, Beerus is completely unharmed and has no sign of scratches or injury. Goku then loses the transformation, though still keeps that same level of power coupled with super saiyan boost. He then uses this power to fire a Kamehameha that provides a direct hit. Buuuuut, it does absolutely nothing and Beerus still has enough energy to throw a massive ball of destruction that almost brings Goku down. In the end, Goku couldn’t beat him.

    Goku vs. Hit (Universe 7 Arc)
    I’ll skip the over explanation a just tell you that Goku achieved a transformation that takes a super saiyan god and applies a regular super saiyan boost to it. It’s called super Saiyan god super saiyan, but I’m just going to call it super saiyan blue. Goku then uses this form against an assassin named Hit, who then pushes Goku to using a new technique. He uses his super saiyan blue in addition with a kaio-ken x10. With this, he has a momentary victory against Hit and even uses his ” Godly Kamehameha” with the kaio-ken in the hopes of besting Hit. Unfortunately, Hit still manages to recover and was able to enhance his capabilities.

    As it stands, the Kamehameha has rarely defeated its target, and I don’t see how it can be perceived as an attack that could end a battle. Usually, it only further aggravates the opponent rather than bringing them to defeat. Even if it could destroy an opponent, it is still possible for someone with a powerful regenerative healing factor to repair their destroyed extremities. Plus, when you scale the Kamehameha from Goku’s universal destructive capacity, you then realize that it can’t even destroy a multiverse. Yes, it could take out a few universes, though an entire multiverse has countless universes that exceed the amount Goku can destroy. Seen as how there are foes who CAN destroy a multiverse with energy and physical strength and even have the power to withstand such attacks, Goku is outclassed by a wide variety of characters. Therefore, both Goku and most of the other characters in the franchise are far from being classified as multiversal threats, and therefore cannot be classified as beings that could solo other franchises.
    Universal+ seems more reasonable for his destructive capacity and durability.

    • Well, the Kamehameha hasn’t won a lot of battles, but I wouldn’t call it overrated. It’s still better than 95% of attacks in all of media. It just looks so awesome and packs a wallop as well. What really makes it good is the fact that it’s a direct attack that just disintegrates the opponent. It compacts all of Goku’s power into a steady stream of energy and then lets it loose. It’s really effective because of how fast it can blow opponents away. It’s personally my favorite attack in Goku’s arsenal.

      • anyone with energy manipulation/absorption would not even get hurt by it

      • Y’know, I’ve been around the block. I’ve experienced much in these few years. I’ve met may people and seen many things. But, I have no words for what you just did.

        You do realize this defeats whatever point you were making about the Kamehameha being impossible to absorb, seen as how the scan clearly shows someone absorbing it.

        I’m just…I’m just pointing that out.

        So…I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was just a joke.

      • Trust me, I shock everyone. I just like to do that kind of thing for fun. Back in the day when defending Goku in debates against Superman, I’d always post the Android 19 battle or the time Krillin hit him with a rock. It’s funny, but I don’t let it destroy my whole argument. That was a weaker Kamehameha so it’s fine if it was absorbed.

      • No, I think you are misunderstanding what I am implying.
        I did not add that clip of J.J. laughing or make that comment on my speechlessness to show any sign of respect. I did it because this is is a joke.

        This tread’s a joke and this whole blog’s a joke. I was trying to be more respectful, but you’ve wrung it out of me. I tried to address your mistakes with constructive criticism, I tried to express these flaws respectfully, and I tried my hardest to be a good person…*sigh*

        Look, you can’t address an issue where you are trying to disprove the Kamehameha being impossible to absorb by providing a scan of the Kamehameha being absorbed!
        THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
        Even if that is weaker version, that clip doesn’t prove whatever point you were trying to make. You haven’t swayed anyone’s opinion into thinking otherwise. You’ve only make the statement more feasible even if the effect is infinitesimal. It would have been better if you gave a scan of someone struggling to absorb the attack. Yes, it was a weaker version, but it still supports a little even if the effect is not as substantial as convincing someone otherwise.

        Besides (and I’m going to keep saying this), the Kamehameha can only destroy a few universes at it’s strongest. It is still below multiversal and that leaves many at an advantage in terms of durability and attack power.

        So…I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt… again… and say that the video you provided was not meant to be taken seriously.

        (*I’m giving you a chance to recover your credibility. TAKE IT!*)

      • I don’k know how I could lose you :/
        I made my point clear enough for a seven-year-old to understand.

        The instances you described do not support your claim in anyway. Both events showed Goku’s weaknesses and his low pain threshold. Ultimately, you are only giving people more reason to advocate for Superman’s victory. It doesn’t matter if you are unwilling to come to terms with your own mistakes. They are still present and any person with a functioning collection of neurons can see that.
        It’s not funny. It’s unfortunate.
        It’s unfortunate how you are unwilling to admit your own folly even when there is much evidence to show it. Any person with the right balance of self-awareness knows that mistakes are unavoidable when you’re human.

        I am more than willing to swallow my pride to admit that.

      • You gotta make it even simpler than that for me.

        Well, I used the Android 19 clip because it makes me feel good as a DBZ fan. That scene still gives me the chills because it’s such a great series and Goku was a well rounded character. Lets put it this way, DBZ is one of those titles where everything works. Goku may have lost that round, but we always knew he would win the next round. That’s one of the main reasons why I like the series so much. Superman’s good, but remember the time he lost to Lex Luthor? Yeah, I remember that and that’s the problem. Goku would never lose a fight like that because he’s a Saiyan of Legend. One good Kamehameha and the villains all freeze up. It’s like how Goku laid down the pain when he fought Frieza. He took some shots, but he also gave a bunch of them as well. I feel like Goku never gives up and he has real feats.

        That’s the problem with TOAA, he has no feats. It’s like grabbing a Mc Flurry at McDonalds and then they tell you that they don’t have any toppings available. That’s just not good enough and to be frank, it’s not something that I can buy into. TOAA has no feats so he’s like a hamburger without the meat. He has a lot of potential, but doesn’t deliver on any of it. While I guess we can’t call him an old man, he is effectively an old man who can levitate. I’d take Alex Hopper over him in a fight because at least Alex has his gun at the ready and some decent hand to hand skills. He can punch and kick which is more than we can say for TOAA since he has no proof.

        It’s a desperate gamble for power that TOAA has started like the new Gluten Free crust at Papa John’s. It’s a last ditch effort to save their reputation, but it is all for naught. It’s too late to really fight back and the damage is done. If TOAA gets a new comic series someday, then that could help. It’s like how Dragon Ball Super showed up to give Goku new feats like Blue Super Saiyan and all that or McDonalds and their new McCafe. You need innovation in order to increase productivity and that’s something that the Dragon Ball series is good at.

        Goku isn’t stronger than TOAA?? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a fighter with such abilities and movement like Goku? Goku puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a fighter with his skill and passion for combat again. TOAA breaks reality. Beyonder breaks multiverses. Goku breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

      • First of all, this isn’t a matter of which series is more influential in your book. That fight serves as a painful reminder that Goku is still beatable. He was bested in combat and his signature move failed tremendously. Superman and Luthor, on the other hand, are a different story. Superman struggles with Lex because he has armed most of his armory with Superman’s greatest weakness: Kryptonite. Like I said before, Goku’s Kamehameha has failed to disintegrate its target and still does so to this day. It’s a hype move that still lacks the means to reach the same destructive capacity of characters like the Anti-Monitor. As it stands, his feats still put him below a large array of characters.
        Also, for the record, Goku did lose the next round. During the Cell Games, he needed his son to finish the job. He was even thrown around like a rag-doll by Cell’s children.

        Second of all, TOAA is not an old man. You keep calling him an old man even when he has proven to possess the power to alter his form and gender freely. I’m beginning to think you aren’t the TOAA expert you say you are. I bet you don’t even know what issue he first made his presence known in.

        Third, you have it backwards. Characters with reality warping are the ones that break the rules. It’s in the name of the power. You can change how strong you are and how weak the opponent is. You can make an atmosphere are deadly toxin or destroy the ozone layer. You can destroy universes with energy or with physical attacks. You can make yourself stronger and faster than everyone else. You’d know that if you properly did your research.
        Seriously, you can see characters capable of doing what Goku does every day of their lives. There are numerous individuals capable of beating him. Goku still has to abide by the rules of gravity and space-time, which ultimately leaves him at a severe disadvantage against beings that ignore those limits. He still lacks the strength to even leave a dent in multiversal beings even if he is at max power.

        Fourth, Doctor Doom.
        Doctor Doom has done performed feats greater than almost every villain, hero, and deity in fictional history. He stands above Goku in terms of impressiveness and skill.

        He became a god nine times.

        He went to Hell and fought a horde of demons with little power left in his suit.

        He built a time machine (which I might add is more impressive than Bulma’s, seen as how he can summon it with his suit and can teleport a greater number of people).

        He ruled an entire country and got bored with it.

        He ruled the entire Earth and got bored with it.

        He wielded two of the most powerful artifacts in existence.

        He thwarted one of the mightiest magic users to ever live and sent her back in time.

        He killed a lion with one punch without magic or technology.

        He obtained the most versatile substance in the universe and weaponized it into an awesome suit and a robot army.

        He cheated death multiple times.

        He has thwarted the smartest individuals in the universe multiple times.

        He constructed a bomb composed of the alternate versions of the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse, used it to kill an army of nearly-omnipotent alien gods and destroy the multiverse, stole their power, and reconstructed the Multiverse where he was literally GOD!

        Keep in mind that Doom is a human with no superhuman powers other than his knowledge of the mystic arts. It was his brilliant intellect that made him one of the most dangerous beings ever created. Imagine the devastation Doom could invoked if he was born as a mutant or an Inhuman. o_o
        Power is not something deciphered from how loud someone is screaming or how bright their blasts are. Power is deciphered based on their results, and Goku has never shown results that puts him at the top.

        Fifth, my “statistics” are the very same means you use when referencing a character’s power. The only difference is that I can differentiate the power between destroying a planet and punching through a universe. We need these statistics in order to properly assess a character’s strength. Without them, people would be saying a planetary threat at full power is stronger than a multiversal threat when holding back. They are used to consistently rate a characters strength, speed, durability, combat experience, agility, intelligence, and other stats in order to see who is stronger than whom. It’s only logical.
        But, Goku… Goku can’t even breathe in deep space. :/

        Frankly, I don’t see why anything you’re saying should make more sense than what I’m saying. I mean, you’re the one who thought Gon could defeat Galactus.
        Gon can’t even move faster than light, nor does he have the capacity to breathe in space. If Galactus wanted to, he could just devour the who planet and take Gon with him to sate his appetite.

      • I won’t deny that Android 19 thoroughly outclassed Goku. Goku was out of his league from the start, but that just speaks to the meat and potatoes of the issue as opposed to Goku’s “lack” of strength. His Kamehameha can destroy anyone in a single hit because it’s one of the strongest moves ever. Yeah, Goku lost to Cell and the Kamehameha never wins when it counts, but it does deal the finishing blow against weaker opponents. Factor in Goku’s current power level and you’ve got yourself a real contender here. DBZ is the most influential series ever, but as you said, that doesn’t matter. It’s just an interesting thing to note. As for Superman and Lex, it doesn’t change the fact that Goku would never lose to someone like that. Goku has no weaknesses which is a huge advantage for him.

        Would you prefer that I called TOAA an old lady or a young kid? As you mentioned, he can shift at will so I like to stick to the Old Man title since it’s tried and true. He does seem to prefer that form to the others.

        Reality Warpers are all talk and no action like the Papa John commercials. You’re overrating Dr. Doom by the way. He’s a cool villain, but he can’t take down Superman, much less Goku.

        Power levels can’t be determined by yells, but dedication and good animation go a long way. Dr. Doom couldn’t survive a punch from Goku, much less the Kamehameha wave. Every time Goku starts to charge up his energy blast, I can’t help but get a little nervous for his opponent. It’s just crazy how strong a Super Saiyan is and you know what’s even more terrifying? Goku’s just getting warmed up! The statistics are good and feats are important. Thing is, not only does Goku have those in spades, but he also has charisma.

        Gon could destroy Galactus of course. The matchup isn’t even close. Galactus is way too slow and big. Gon would just keep on punching Galactus as the big guy tries to tell him to stop. Galactus is the prey and Gon is the hunter in this case. You can’t stop someone like Gon…he’s just too experienced and determined!

      • No, it’s not that strong.
        It’s striking power is still lacking to this day.
        There are numerous characters that have the durability and power to resist it or deflect it without a scratch.
        I’ve calculated it based on everything in the entirety of Dragon Ball’s history. I’ve look at every point it was executed and scaled Goku’s other feats with basic calculations. I’ve performed research on EVERYTHING.
        I’m sorry, but no matter who you swing it, the facts don’t place Goku at that level at this moment. It still shows that many can survive his most powerful attacks. The end result is the same no matter how consistently you rate it.
        Goku just isn’t strong enough yet.

        “He does seem to prefer that form to the others.”
        So, because TOAA used that form ONE time in ONE rare instance, he prefers it above all others? How does that make sense? I suppose Oolong’s form as a young man means he prefers that form even though he’s only used it once.
        You’re referring to him as an old man as if his form directly correlates with his vitality. He’s a SHAPEshifter. You can turn a block of clay into an alien shape, but that doesn’t mean it posses the physiology of an extraterrestrial being. While he can theoretically acquire these traits, what idiot would do that to themselves?
        Time and death have no effect on his being regardless of what form he takes.
        It’s a facade. A cloak. A disguise he used in order to blend in. He wouldn’t use that form in a hostile confrontation. He only used that form to avert any attention. With his level of benevolence, he wouldn’t stoop to the level of characters like Shadow, Vegeta, or Bass (all of whom have similarities that are miraculously uncanny).
        He’s not the kind of person who would demand faith from others like Doom. With his level of knowledge, he wouldn’t act so…mortal.

        If you knew ANYTHING about comics or anime, you would know that there are plenty of people with reality warping powers that take plenty of action and ultimately defeat foes without any problem whatsoever.
        Mad Jim Jaspers, Franklin Richards, Wiccan, Galactus, and the Beyonder have been more than willing to take action and have done so in a manner that places them above most characters. There is no way Goku could pull off what they’ve done. Destroying multiverses, ripping and reshaping matter, obtaining immortality, seeing the future, and controlling entire timelines have been within the vast repertoire of their abilities.
        I’m starting to think you’re not really an expert on comics or anime now.

        I already know Doom couldn’t fight Goku in a direct physical confrontation, though he would flex his muscles by formulating a plan no one would see coming. He wouldn’t act like a senseless bonehead and fight Goku directly. More than likely, he would use the gadgets in his arsenal to learn everything he can about him.

        His inability to breathe in deep space or underwater.
        His capacity to run out of power with the use of his stronger attacks.
        His naive nature.
        His insatiable appetite.
        The amount of energy consumed with his strongest transformations.
        His inability to teleport outside the universe.
        His constraints to linear time.
        His mortality.

        Any being (cosmic or naught) would be able exploit these weaknesses using both power and superior intellect. The scan you provided seems to support this. With or without telepathy, a character could use mind games on Goku to fool him easily.
        Like I said, power is also deciphered based on results. The results of Goku’s actions are lacking when compared with other characters. Based on his feats and statistics, he is well below a threat to immortal, primordial, and multiversal entities.

        As for Gon and Galactus, you really haven’t been following the progression of comics and anime have you? Immense size doesn’t yield an expense of speed for all characters. They can compensate for it with training an experience. Darth Vader, Great Saiyan Apes, and Marugori are all evidence of beings capable of moving faster than most in spite of the additional mass. Galactus himself has displayed the ability to move at light speed while traveling through the cosmos and reacting to attackers. He’s very, very fast.

        However, Galactus won’t be needing to do much moving in this fight.
        There are still a few things I want to know:
        1. How can Gon even touch Galactus if he can’t breathe in space? Does he even have the power to leave the three spheres of the atmosphere? Can he even leave one?
        2. If Gon could breathe outside of the atmosphere, how would he even hurt him? Galactus has fought beings capable of shredding solar systems with ease. Just by absorbing FOUR planets he was capable of doing combat with galaxy busters. A planetary attack, regardless of how many times it’s used, is nothing more than a butterfly kiss against Galactus.
        3. What if the entire planet is destroyed? Even when starving, Galactus can destroy entire planets with ease. If he wanted to end the battle quickly, he could just stand with arms folded, look at the Earth with a condescending look of superiority, and destroy it with his eye lasers. If this happened, Gon would either die from the power of the blast or suffocate in the vacuum of deep space.

        So, unless Gon can breathe in space, destroy solar systems, or survive planetary annihilation, Galactus will beat him effortlessly.

      • I think you must have missed a few 000s in your calcs. The Kamehameha gets stronger along with Goku which means that the ceiling for its abilities is quite high. That’s why the attack is the best. It literally has no limit and is always improving. It doesn’t hurt that the attack also looks really cool!

        Well, that is TOAA’s most iconic appearance and since he is meant to look like Stan Lee, it stands to reason that it is his default form. Oolong typically looks like a pig…so that’s his favorite form.

        Goku has the feats to outshadow any reality warper. Should I post the Cell solar system scan again?

        Well, for anime I’ve been watching a lot of Buddyfigt and Yugioh lately. Those series have other fighters that could take on people like TOAA, but I shouldn’t get into that. Lets address your concerns on how Gon could wreck Galactus with ease.

        1. Gon jumps up and punches Galactus. Galactus is huge, but Gon can jump high. If Galactus retreats into space then Gon can use his Paper energy blasts to continue the fight until Galactus mans up and heads back to Earth to get clobbered.

        2. See number 1. Gon’s punches would deal a whole lot of damage to Galactus. I mean, the guy was knocked out by Ghost Rider and injured by Thor. Gon would have him crying for mercy very quickly.

        3. Galactus will have to get past Gon to destroy the planet and that’s not happening. That being said, that’s why we choose a neutral battlefield for a fight like this. It’s like how Nemo would be at a disadvantage if they fought in Texas or Ice-Man wouldn’t do well near a volcano. The planet will effectively be destruction proof to prevent cheese tactics like that or you can think of the layout like Final Destination from Super Smash Bros. Stage hazards won’t determine the outcome, just the fighters’ abilities and Gon has those in spades!

      • Weeeeeell…I did ACTUAL calculations based on real means of measurement. It’s actually quite easy when you know the basic fundamentals of multiplication.
        Unlike you, I actually tried using a consistent strategy to assess his strength based on mathematics and real time events that provide additional escalations in power.
        It’s still not enough.
        So, unless you actually took the time to look through the Dragon Ball continuity to find every point that can offer insight on Goku’s strength now the same way I did, my input is still valid.

        Yes, Oolong TYPICALLY uses that form.
        TOAA only used that particular form one time, and most likely has no plans to use again.
        Even if it is his most iconic, a shapeshifter changes their form depending on the scenario. Why should that be his definitive form when he can change it willingly?
        In later scenarios that showed his major moments of intervention, he was perceived as a specter of pure light an all encompassing, incorporeal energy mass. You even used that form as the profile picture for TOAA for this very thread.

        No he doesn’t.
        That solar system feat can barely be classified as a move worth looking at with the amount of characters who can do that with a finger. Solar system busting is now a low tier power among the stronger characters.
        In fact, when you scale from that feat and multiply other aspects of power levels, you get results that are lower than universal. By calculating from that instance, the amount of solar systems Goku can destroy now barely reaches the amount of solar systems in a galaxy.\
        I actually worked out the math in the Beyonder vs. Goku thread.
        So, if you want the highest possible results, you should use the only true universal feat in the entire series.

        Regardless of how strong Goku is, the natural forces of the universe have always been one of his obstacles.
        Like I said before, Goku only has a speed advantage against foes that are linear within the boundaries of space-time like him. It won’t be easy to face an enemy that can speedblitz at speeds faster time.

        There is no conceivable way Gon can even faze Galactus with his attacks. Gon can’t even destroy a solar system, let alone an entire Galaxy. When Galactus is as well fed as has been in the past, his strength can even reach universal levels. If Gon only has enough force to destroy a planet, Galactus won’t feel a thing.
        Unless, of course, you have something to prove that Gon’s striking strength is at least at a multi-solar level.

        On a side note, Galactus is way faster than Gon.
        Even as a giant, Galactus has proven to move at speeds that surpass light-speed to the point where he has matched (and bested) characters like Silver Surfer and High Evolutionary in speed and strength.

        Gon on the other hand is no where near light-speed.
        As it stands, like other characters in Hunter x Hunter, Gon has only been able to move faster than the speed of sound at his fastest. Though he can move at supersonic and even HYPER-sonic speeds, that still places him at a severe disadvantage when Galactus can speedblitz him at light-speed.
        In fact, characters like Kirito and Naruto are only capable of moving and reacting at mach speeds. While this is impressive, it still places them well below light-speed.

      • Hey, basic multiplication is a lot trickier than it looks. Why should 2*2 = 4? It doesn’t always make sense, but at least it’s fair. As for the calcs, I put a few minutes of time into mine as well. It makes sense when you consider the big picture. Goku was about to destroy all of creation when he was fighting Beerus and he wasn’t even close to full power yet.

        Well, TOAA as an old man is his most iconic form so it makes sense to think of him that way. As you mentioned, he doesn’t need to keep that form, but I’d say that it’s an improvement over his talking head form. At least you can picture him slapping someone with a cane or something.

        Goku can speedbiltz anyone. He can move faster than time if he wants too and the fact of the matter is, Goku is one of the GOATs (Greatest of All Time) in media. He has the speed and the skills to pay the bills. He’s died more times than I can count and he always gets right back on the saddle. TOAA breaks reality, Beyonder breaks multiverses, Goku breaks the rules. He does what he wants when he wants and continues to get stronger and stronger.

        Goku really knows no limits and continues to get up.

        Goku has to go up against the writers, the fans, and occasionally a strong villain. He still manages to come out on top.

        As for Gon and Galactus, you’re heavily overestimating the latter.

        I was laughing so hard during this scene that I had to keep replaying it so I could actually hear what was happening. If Ghost Rider the Glider could beat Galactus in one hit, then Goku’s aura would make the big guy go away. Gon wouldn’t win quite as easily, but a few good punches would still do the trick. Galactus is what I’d call a glass cannon. He can dish out the blows, but he can’t take it. He gets overwhelmed and shut down. In all fairness, I like Galactus. He’s a fun guy and has a good sense of humor. That being said, part of the fun is that he can never back up his tough talk. He talks a good game, but ends up being shut down by every super powered team in the book. Here’s how the fight would go

        Galactus just isn’t durable enough to take Gon on 1 on 1. Naruto’s definitely FTL meanwhile and Kirito is up there as well. Please don’t say that you think Galactus can beat Kirito. Kirito would just need a few good slices from his dual blades to take the giant down and Galactus would never even be close to landing a hit on the legendary Swordsman.

    • Better than 95% of attacks in all of media?
      A direct attack that just disintegrates the opponent?

      Anyone with Buu’s level of regeneration can recover from a Kamehameha. Judging by the amount of characters that do have that type of healing factor AND can recover from disintegration, I can think of a lot of people that can come back from it.

      It’s like you said: “the Kamehameha hasn’t won a lot of battles”, which is why I don’t see how it’s classified as a one-hit kill. Anyone with multiversal durability can tank it easily even at the highest stage we’ve seen. Again, there are many characters that have proven to deserve this classification. Unfortunately, Goku is not one of them.

      Perhaps It’s just me, but how can one place so much hope in an attack that almost never does the job of ending the fight?

      • Absolutely! A direct attack like that is the best kind. The only other ones that could compete with it would be something like Darkness Overload, Gallick Gun, Dark Arm Blade, and other abilities of a similar nature. A healing ability isn’t enough to take on the full brunt of the Kamehameha. Remember, you’ll be disintegrated by that point so the healing factor won’t even matter. At Goku’s current level, there are only a small handful of opponents who could survive a direct shot…maybe not even that many. It’s a very simple technique, but that doesn’t make it any less deadly.

      • It isn’t that deadly. A direct attack does not always mean it is the most devastating one. Even when the Kamehameha has landed direct hits characters have recovered from it with only a few scratches. Buu was able to heal from it. Cell was able to heal from it. Beerus wasn’t even injured at all. If characters like Maestro can molecularly rebuilt their bodies after being atomized via their regenerative healing factor, I’m pretty sure a lot of people can survive it.
        How can you say an attack can destroy anyone if it can’t even hold up against the foes of the respective franchise? Like I said, Goku’s Kamehameha is an attack that, at this point, only has the power to destroy a few universes. It can’t destroy a multiverse. Therefore, there are characters that can survive it.

        Also, some of the other attacks you listed also have a history of not ending the fight and only further aggravating the opponent. Why do these attacks get special treatment? They seem just as a effective and ineffective as other attacks I’ve seen. They almost never damage the enemy the way they are intended to and characters usually have enough time to dodge them. They’re strong, but the amount of flaws in their execution leave much room for failure. -_-

        As far as I can tell, those techniques are just hype.

        I also want to address what you said about Odin. He may be old, but that does not make him weak. In fact, it is quite the contrary. Age enhances Asgardian vitality and Odin if far stronger than most of the forces in the cosmos.
        Plus, Odin is one of the the many characters that have shown to have the power to move faster than light. He went through the entire universe in a matter of minutes while fighting Forsung.

      • I disagree. Direct attacks will always be the most devastating and have the best results. Those enemies have lived, but they’ve never faced current Goku’s 100% Kamehameha. That attack is a monster and the scary thing is that it gets stronger along with the user. Since Goku has no limits, neither does the Kamehameha. I just don’t see anyone standing up to it without being vaporized. Even healing factors won’t work with how completely destructive it is.

        I mean, those attacks were examples. I could probably come up with others if I thought about it like the Earthbreaker move. It’s not special treatment just in my experience, those are some of the strongest attacks in media. Keep in mind that an attack is limited by the user. It’s possible for a low tier fighter to have an amazing attack and the attack is underrated because of this. Case in point, Tri Beam. Imagine how strong it would have been if Goku had used it?

        Old age doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with being weak I suppose, but it does help. In most of Odin’s depictions, he’s seen as incredibly slow, frail, and weak. He has some outliers which help a lot and authors have tried to get him back into the game with these cool speed feats, but by and large, the strongest characters will always be those who are in their primes.

      • You can fire a direct attack with a six-shooter at a tank, but that doesn’t mean it will destroy the armor.
        Like I’ve said numerous times, I’ve calculated the Kamehameha at maximum capacity already and the outcome left it severely below a multiversal threat. Anyone with that level of durability can tank it head on.
        Some who can’t have the capacity to regenerate their beings from disintegration. The Kamehameha isn’t an attack that wipes characters from existence. It’s just another attack that can disintegrate it’s target.
        Even for those who can’t tank it or regenerate from it, there are those with ability to resurrect their bodies and reemerge anew.
        For instance, the Valar would be able to recover from this. Even IF they could not survive being hit by such an attack, their spirits would still be in tact. As long as they are in tact, they can reconstruct their bodies without a problem.
        Unfortunately, Goku can’t destroy immortal spirits either.
        Also, you seem to be confused with Goku’s character. He HAS limits. It’s his realization of these limits that give him a reason try and surpass them. Goku still has much to learn.

        Regardless, most of them have still failed to decimate a target in one hit.

        Since when is Odin slow, frail, or weak?
        Odin’s never shown any of those limitations!
        He’s one of the only characters in all of Marvel that can move at speeds faster than light.
        He was even able to combat Thanos and Silver Surfer simultaneously.
        In fact, due to being the greatest of the Asgardians, he’s exhibited moments of great agility and reflexes, as shown during his one-on-one battles with S.S and Thor.
        He also has greater stamina, due to being capable of fighting for months on end without resting or eating.
        I don’t think you know enough about Odin to suggest he is slow.
        You can’t suggest outliers were involved if Odin has never been illustrated as weak or frail. If he hasn’t shown to be classified as such, then he is not weak or frail.

        While age is consider a hindrance for others, Odin’s age has never weighed him down. In fact, his age is a great asset to his capabilities.
        In addition to that, there are many characters of greater age who have shown to posses vitality that surpasses that of metahumans in their prime.

      • Nobody can tank a Kamehameha full blast though. There are a handful of exceptions, but characters just don’t have that level of power. As for spirits, those won’t be enough. The Kamehameha just destroys anything in its path, nobody is regenerating from that if it’s a clean hit. The Immortal Spirits will fade into oblivion from the pure carnage and raw power of it.

        Goku has no limits. Super is just saying that because the show doesn’t know what it’s talking about. Goku will keep on getting stronger and stronger forever and ever.

        Have you seen Odin in any of the cartoons or the live action films? He can barely even walk straight at times and I could outrun him if I brought my track sneakers out of hibernation. Even in the comics, he was too slow to dodge surtur. Odin is not a fast character at all. He did fight Thanos and Silver Surfer, but he didn’t use a lot of speed there.

        The fight makes for a lot of cool visuals. There’s no doubt about that, but Surfer and Thanos just kept running straight at him. All Odin needed were some decent reaction times and he was able to hold his own. In terms of actual speed, Tuxedo Mask at his peak could probably outrun him. Lets not even get started on good ole Saiyan Saga Goku.

        The only thing that typically gets better with age is a classic McDonald’s Chocolate Chip Frappe. It tastes better every year.

      • so? TOAA is god. he can do anything. give m eon efeat of goku’s that says he can destroy an omniverse. and no “oh he destroyed a island so he can destroy an omniverse!” one feat of goku destroying an omniverse.

      • I can show you a scan of Goku facing someone who can destroy a solar system if it helps. Goku was also wrecking the Omniverse at the beginning of Super, but held back just enough to stop all of reality from being destroyed. Show me TOAA at least throwing a punch or breaking a building.

      • That’s basically the same argument I made. Destroying an island means you can destroy the Omniverse? NO. Unless your omnipotent. there’s only one Omniverse by the way, but an omnipotent being can make multiple Omniverses.

      • My argument is more substantial. Think about it, TOAA’s never destroyed anything. At least Goku has. He nearly wiped out all of reality with a punch

    • Mob and Tornado are two characters that have never punched anything, yet they’ve been known to have greater power than almost the entire cast of their respective series.
      Besides, there are characters that have powers that put physical contact in combat to shame. A character doesn’t need to be a muscle head like Tulkas in order to be classified as powerful.

      • I think you’re taking it too literally though. Mob has effectively punched as he did grab a guy by the face and slam him through a few buildings at super speed. Tornado has thrown rocks at people. They may not have used a punch, but they did physically attack someone. We can alter the parameters if you want. Show me a scan of TOAA firing a TK bolt at an opponent or lifting a building with his mind and slamming someone. Those feats would count as well since they are attacks. The problem is that TOAA has never even attacked anyone because he can’t. It’s like when someone yells “FAKE NEWS” all the time and then you want for the counter but it never comes. TOAA just isn’t a fighter.

    • Here

      I think the Dub makes it even cooler though so try to find that clip if you want for the extra boost. It’s really impressive and the only reason why the punch doesn’t end up blowing up the omniverse is that Goku learns how to absorb and redirect the energies so that the universe is unaffected

    • You sure, it works just fine on my end. Google Goku and Beerus destroy the universe and you should find a similar link.

      That’s what Omnipotents want you to think!

      • Well, I had to go on the main site of YouTube to enable the video.

        Omnipotents like the Beyonder for example, are capable of shaking up multiverses and tanking blasts that can destroy several billion dimensions.

      • Omnipotents like Beyonder tend to get speedblitzed though. Seriously, I don’t think he would last more than a minute against someone like Goku. That scene isn’t the only powerful moment in DBZ history. Goku has numerous hype points through the years and he always backed up his tough talk

      • Beyonder couldn’t be defeated. He nearly busted the Multiverse at the end of Secret Wars 2 and also defeated Molecule Man. But Beyonder could only be defeated by P.I.S. Example when he was inside a machine and was going to destroy the Multiverse, Molecule Man destroyed the machine and created a new Big Bang.

      • Sure, Beyonder is tough, but keep in mind that he’s never been defeated because he’s never had to fight someone like Goku before. Goku is on a completely different level from any comic book character and that’s before he even decides to try. Trust me, Beyonder doesn’t want a piece of this action.

  15. Also, it was only the Universe that was nearly destroyed. Where does it say Omniverse? That shows how much your wanking your favorite character. He’s massively overrated on many debating forums.

      • It makes sense though. Think about it, if they were all going to die because of the destruction, then that probably applies to everything in the omniverse.

      • That…that makes no sense…
        It was heavily implied that their universe was the only thing that was on the verge of perishing.
        How would that correlate with the rest of the Omniverse?
        Nothing else beyond the Kai World was affected by it.
        You can just add to the feat when their’s nothing to support it.

        I don’t see how Goku should even be considered being placed at multiversal let alone omniversal. The only fictional realms that have referenced the existence of the omniverse are Doctor Who and Marvel Comics.
        If anything, the characters in those series are closer to being omniversal than Goku will ever be.

      • How was it implied that just their universe would perish? The Kais were panicking because everything was about to be obliterated. Everything is truly everything in this case and that includes the omniverse. Marvel and Doctor Who are the only ones to mention the Omniverse because those universes just like to brag all of the time. It doesn’t mean that they don’t exist in the other realms, just that it doesn’t matter much. If you can blow up a multiverse, you can basically do the same to an omniverse. If you can take out a universe, you can probably take out a multiverse…etc.

      • If that’s the case, EVERY character in fiction is omniversal by the same token.
        I mean, they didn’t destroy the Omniverse.
        Some of them didn’t even destroy what they claimed they could destroy (Cell being one of them).

        By your logic, Galactus, the Beyonder, Superman, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, the Phoenix, Hulk, Thor, Darksied, Spectre, Anti-Monitor, Thanos, and the entire Cosmic hierarchy are omniversal threats too.

        Why should it matter if they haven’t proven it?
        In fact, why should any character prove anything?

        I can say Hulk is multiversal as the Worldbreaker without providing any scans to support other than one of him being defeated like the ones you offered.

        I can prove Superman can solo Gurren Lagann by showing a scan of him being stabbed in the heart by Emperor Joker.

        I can say Iron man is 10,000,000,000,000 times faster than the speed of light after he escaped a black hole.

        The Beyonder caused multiversal destruction? That means he’s omniversal even though his rampage didn’t breach the barrier past the Marvel continuity.

        Why should Odin be limited to destroying one galaxy?
        Why can’t we say he can destroy a MILLION galaxies!
        A BILLION!
        INFINITY!
        WHY STICK WITH CONSISTENCY WHEN YOU CAN EDIT THE STORY LIKE IT’S YOUR’S?

        *Inhales deeply*

        What’s the point of having a battle blog if you’re going to be even more inconsistent and ridiculous than the writers you undermine?

      • Well, not every. That being said, I do think that every multiverse buster is an omniverse buster. At that point, there is no real differentiation between the two. Any that can do the former can certainly do the latter unless it is explicitly stated that they cannot. As you mentioned, most universes don’t even bother with the omniverse because of how irrelevant it is. I’d go as far as to say that Universe Busters can also destroy omniverses, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

        No, none of those guys aside from probably Superman would stack up. I suppose we can throw in Beyonder. The ones who are omniverse busters are Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Vegeta, Beerus, Whis, Frieza, Cell, Buu, etc.

        Lets calm down and think about this.

        Hulk-He has trouble with lightweights like Thor and Iron-Man. (Relatively speaking) He definitely can’t break a multiverse
        Superman- He couldn’t take down Simon. That being said, this argument is probably the most credible.
        Iron Man- I could see him being massively FTL, but not through a black hole feat. Grab a scene from the anime where he speedbiltzes one of the villains to make it more convincing.
        Odin- Nobody can take him seriously at this point.

        Well, the blog has a 100% accuracy policy so that helps to separate my opinions from the facts. The policy prevents the site from having any inaccurate battles, If it breaches the contract, then it has to answer to me.

  16. Prove that the Beyonder doesn’t want to fight. He shook up the Multiverse. And you haven’t even answered my question a month ago. Where’s the power scaling from island to omniverse level?

      • So?
        Galactus can devour planets when he’s at his weakest state.
        Bass shook a planet while getting stronger.
        Eating takes less effort than charging one’s energy, especially when you don’t even need to chew your food.

        There is no conceivable way to scale a character as an omniversal threat based on a planetary feat in Bass’ position. There are 500 discovered SOLAR SYSTEMS in ONE galaxy alone, and it is estimated that the true amount goes into the millions and billions.

        Exactly how would you scale him as being omniversal from that planetary feat?

        Show me. Show me exactly how you scaled his power as omniversal from that feat.

      • Galactus is still slow tho. Well, here’s a more in depth look at it.

        Bass was FTL when he first appeared.
        -Bass blows up island by powering up
        -Bass breaks black hole with his fist
        -Bass shakes planet by powering up
        -Bass destroys legendary virus in one hit
        -Bass must be the strongest in history.

        While the last one may seem like a bit of a stretch, it really isn’t. Bass has proven time and time again that he is the GOAT. (Greatest of All Time) He saves heroes time and time again and his raw power is just about unstoppable. His Get Ability makes his defense perfect as well. I say that his strength is unlimited because once he shoots a laser, I don’t see the energy ever stopping until it has destroyed its objective.

      • No he’s not.
        Even in his larger form, he is capable of moving at speeds that surpass light.
        He’s faster than you realize.

        “Bass was FTL when he first appeared.”
        -So? There are numerous characters with speed surpassing light speed. They’ve evolved tremendously from that point as well.
        Galactus is one of them.

        “Bass blows up island by powering up”
        Just one island?
        That’s not much to give him the edge.

        “Bass breaks black hole with his fist”
        There are billions of black holes in a single universe.
        Bass destroying a black hole is like me breaking off a piece of Styrofoam compared to other character feats.

        “Bass shakes planet by powering up”
        Just one planet?
        A planet he didn’t even destroy?
        That’s still not much to give him the edge.

        “Bass destroys legendary virus in one hit”
        What legendary virus?.

        “Bass must be the strongest in history.”
        That’s a lot of hype considering the fact that he was trapped in the Jaws of Nebula Grey, punctured in the chest, and defeated on several different occasions.

        There are characters who can do everything you have listed to the point where his feats are as impressive as playing one key on the piano. All of those feats are child’s play from an experienced veteran of fiction (though. I’m still comfortable with admitting my moments of ignorance and my less frequent participation in that regard).

        On a side note, Goku has NEVER shaken a multiverse, his energy blasts take FAR more effort than just thinking, and he is NOT all-powerful.

        You sill haven’t shown me exactly how you scaled Bass as being omniversal from those feats.

      • Trust me, he’s anything but fast. As a casual Marvel expert, I can guarantee you that Galactus is quite slow.

        Playing one key on the piano is pretty impressive if it’s your first time on the chair. That being said, the feats speak for themselves. Bass really cannot be defeated and he just gets better and better. A more in depth look at how he is omniversal is tricky. You sort of just need to have a feel for it. When Bass blows stuff up, you can’t just look at the feat, but you have to look at the intensity of the situation. The facial expressions, the art, the feels, etc. When you add it all up, you see that Bass has gotten the job done once again. Pretty sweet eh?

        What I mean by that is that Bass seems to have no limits. He’s never really been defeated in the manga thanks to his Get Ability and he did end up saving everyone after that.

        Goku is not all powerful since Bass can beat him, but he’s the closest thing to it. It’s like the upcoming Unicorn Frappe at Starbucks that I can’t wait to try. It looks amazing, but tastes even better. That’s how Goku’s feats are. They’re extremely impressive, but he’s even tougher than you’d think.

      • The fact that you think he is slow shows you are not an expert.
        If you were an expert, you would know that Galactus has moved at light speed even when his power wasn’t at full capacity. Though he can alter his size, his speed is not lessened by it. He has still been able to move at speeds surpassing light.
        If you ARE an expert, you must know what Galactus’ only weakness is correct?

        No, that is most incorrect.
        You cannot base those feats on visual effects and the orchestrated situations. You base it on what it did in terns of tangibility.
        Numerous characters can and have performed feats similar and greater than Bass’. Whether or not they used overcompensating special effects does not add or take away from the feat itself. The feats are all that matter when you address the strength of an attack. You can’t just discriminate other character feats simply due to the fact that their effects were more subtle. It is not a fair way to differentiate power.
        This isn’t a matter of what you feel.
        This is a matter of what IS.

        You can’t base everything on YOUR perception alone, especially when you have a history of misconceptions in this area. Who cares if the tensions were higher or if the visuals were more over the top?
        The fact that the tensions were high only adds to the fact that he was forced to strain his body in order reach the effect we saw.
        The same can be said with the visuals.
        Expressions showing grinding teeth, pulsating muscles, and more screaming show he put too much effort into something that shouldn’t have required that amount of stress.
        If you saw one guy lift fifty pounds with a massive amount of strain to the point of feeling pain in the upper body, while a woman was able to lift that amount of mass effortlessly and still had enough stamina to celebrate, the latter would be perceived as the strongest of the two and may even be capable of lifting more.

        That being said, Eru has performed feats like these too.
        He sank the island of Numenor, destroyed Ar-Pharazon’s entire warship armada, broke off the realms of Aman and Tol Eressea from the Arda, removed Sauron’s chief ability to resume his deceitful form, and changed the Earth from flat to round all in the span of a few pages.
        (If you know anything about physics, giving the world roundness is a big deal.)

      • Trust me, making the world round isn’t a big deal. At least not when discussed on this high level of power.

        Galactus’ only weakness is that he’s always hungry and keeps getting weaker by the second. You can camp him out Call of Duty style and he’ll eventually faint. His other weaknesses are that he’s slow and not too smart. Now, you mention the FTL stuff, but I’ll counter with literally every animated appearance and every time he crashed to Earth to fight the FF. Spider-Man could move faster than him there. See, the problem is that in space everyone is FTL because there’s no air resistance and artists like to show off. What really counts are whether they can move that way on land or not and Galactus has always been found to be lacking in that area.

        The screaming and pulsating muscles just show that the heroes are trying to psych out the villains. Whenever they yell “It’s not that serious” before powering up, they’re effectively telling the audience to grab their popcorn. It’s not about saying that some feats are better than others, but some are just better than others. You can have two characters blow up a planet. One of them does it with Arthur animation and the other has Ufotable at the helm. The latter is going to be a whole lot more impressive. You could have Beyonder destroy a solar system with a slow motion wink or Goku while bleeding and yelling just barely break it in half. The Goku one is infinitely more impressive and counts for a lot more. Context and effects are really important when feats are considered.

        I won’t deny that Eru has a cool name.

      • @DarkLK
        Really?
        Huh…
        I was completely unaware of that!
        I think I’ve been veering my attention from DC after the cinematic fallout it had with BvS for too long.

        Guess I should take some time to refresh myself on the lore and whatnot.

        Thanks for the info BTW.

      • Oh…, so you don’t know much about physics.
        Great…

        Anyway, you’re half right with Galactus…
        Actually, you’re only a quarter right…
        Well,…it might be even less than that tbh :/

        Even at his weakest, Galactus can go a month without needing to devour energy.
        In fact, he has shown to have possess the capacity to go months without eating.
        (Read Fantastic Four Vol 1 #243 to learn more)

        However, now that Galactus has evolved into the Lifebringer and has obtained the complete and full power of his being, his stats are off the charts now. In his base form, while he could make himself exceptionally powerful, his strength directly correlated with how much he devours. That’s why he is strong when fighting in certain battles and weaker in others. He hasn’t ingested enough energy and is often confronted due to his search for such sustenance.
        Now, thanks to this new upgrade, his stamina is always at maximum capacity and his power is on par with that of his former superiors effortlessly.
        In layman’s terms, he doesn’t need to eat anymore AND his power is at an immensely powerful level.
        (Read the Ultimates (2016) #’s 1-3 to learn more)

        As for Galactus’ intelligence, it would appear as though you know little about that as well. Galactus is a genius in technology that is vastly superior to that of other terrestrial races. Even Reed Richards, the highest intellect on Earth even against Doctor Doom and Hank Pym, had difficulty understanding Galactus’ most rudimentary inventions.
        Galactus even has an entire laboratory in his Worldship, Taa II.
        That coupled with having experience dating back to the universe’s creation leaves him as the superior mind. You can deny him being fast, but you most certainty cannot deny his vast intellect.
        Though, I don’t understand where you got the idea that he has a knack for comedy.

        Now, onto speed, it would be wise not to use the animated shows as source material when trying o see how powerful a character is. They comic book adaptations are notorious for making heroes and villains weaker in order to make them less overwhelming for the kids. They also use this stunt in order to give certain characters of a more popular standing point a chance to make their big beau and contribute to the cause like any cheesy kids TV show. In reality, if Galactus’ comic book adaptation were placed in this scenario, Ghost Rider wouldn’t stand a chance at all.

        Nnnnnnnnnoooooo….
        A person capable of rational thought would obviously pick the Beyonder. If he can decimate an entire solar system with a wink, he would be classified as stronger if we’re measuring from the laughably embarrassing display you described for Goku. Not only would the Beyonder have the capacity to break through that rock with a mere finger flick, if he were to exert the same amount of effort Goku did when he barely cracked that rock, he would probably punch every neighboring solar system into extinction.

        I mean…c’mon. It’s…pretty obvious that the Beyonder would be the smarter option. If you were a person recruiting people for a mission and you needed someone skilled an strong enough to combat a group of cybernetic ninjas, you’d test their strength against a similar challenge.
        For a final test, you have numerous stone targets the combatants must destroy. Out of the two black belts remaining, if one is incapable of performing the necessary strength test of destroying at least one of the twelve stones and even injures their hands in the process, while the other black belt destroys all targets without even needing to ease the pain on his knuckles and heels, you’d pick the latter knowing they have enough force AND skill to breach the enemy’s armor.
        You wouldn’t pick the other individual. If he barely had enough power and stamina management to break one rock, why would you trust him against an army of robotic martial arts warriors?

        In addition to that, Eru has been assisting his children every step of the way. Good always triumphs over evil because he stands for what is just. He has been able to make examples of his power before and has even received confirmation from Tolkien himself. It was even stated that Eru was the one who made it so that Gollum fell into the fire with the One Ring.

        Even Google agrees to Eru’s possession of absolute power.

        https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=eru+il%C3%BAvatar+weapon&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LSz9U3MM2Njzes0pLPTrbSzy6IzynXz8kvKYpPzkgsSkwuSS2yKk9NLMjPAwDpUxVbLwAAAA

        https://www.google.com/search?q=Omnipotence&oq=Omnipotence&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3j69i59&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

        Fun Fact: In Quenya, Eru means “He that Is Alone” and Iluvatar means “the Father of All”.

      • You’re not gonna be surprised, but I’m basically failing physics atm. It’s ruining my 3.6 GPA. Booooooooooo. I can’t stand physics. I like the subject, but I can’t stand it as a class. 4 question mid-term worth 30% of the entire grade? You’ve got to be kidding me. We’re zipping through different chapters every day and it all looks like jibberish.

        I’ll settle for being 1% right. That’ll look good on my resume anyway. Galactus doesn’t live up to his own hype. He’s always hungering and certainly can’t last a month at his weakest. Mr. Fantastic’s going to have to study up some more. The new power up for Galactus sounds pretty cool though. At the very least, the writers can’t use him as a McDonald’s commercial anymore with how many McDoubles he can consume. As for his “great” intellect, I’m not sold. I get the whole inventions thing and he was always a scholar even before he became the mighty Galactus, but just because you’re “official” smart doesn’t mean that you’re street smart. Case in point, I didn’t get a perfect 2400 on the SAT and if it were a perfect assessment of smarts then I would have. Galactus just never seems all that smart because he lets the heroes mess with him constantly, but that’s thanks to the writers. I’d be more impressed if he figured stuff out all the time like Batman.

        How about this, Goku moves a boulder while he’s just a kid!

        http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/a/aa/TTB1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100116074757

        Look, I’m not saying that the Beyonder is a bad guy. He seems like a good kid and he’s got his life all figured out. The problem is that he relies on his cosmic abilities and isn’t used to fighting in the ring like Goku is. It’s like when you take a guy like Harry Mitch and put him in the ring against Rocky Balboa. Harry may be stronger, but Rocky knows what it means to be in a fight. Goku could just grab Beyonder and throw him out of the planet. Beyonder would be in so much shock and confusion that he would barely even register the fact that he was taken down for the count. He’s not really on Goku’s level and that’s because Goku gives everything 110%. As you said, Beyonder never has to put in the effort so he really doesn’t know what to do or how to handle things. He’s really from a different world when it comes to skills.

        Wait a minute, we can’t give Eru credit for Gollum being a klutz. Eru had absolutely nothing to do with that. However, this is a perfect example to expose the scene as empty hype. See, this is what the cosmic beings want us to think. They want us to think that every accidental action was caused by them when they had nothing to do with it. TOAA is the biggest offender. He’s never fought in the ring before yet he claims to be the strongest. It’s fake…it’s absolutely not true…and that’s the scary part.

      • 1%?…
        Well, just make sure you aim towards those with lower standards 😉

        Like I said before, his hunger isn’t a hindrance in battle. At the least, he can go one earth month without needing to devour planets before he gets hungry.
        If you were the expert you claim to be, you’d know that he can last a few Earth months at the most in his base form.
        If only I could say the same for Goku.
        Galactus is no different than most powerful characters. He’s a living being that still needs to eat. What sets him apart is the fact that the intervals between his feedings are MUCH, MUCH longer. His hunger really isn’t that big of a deal unless it’s the reason why he’s doing battle at all.
        Now that he’s the lifebringer he’s finally become the cosmic entity he was meant to be.
        And…I think your interpretation of his intellect is also skewed tremendously. It almost feels as though you only read small snippets of what I wrote.
        Did you even bother to Google search the comic book issue I left?
        Regardless, I will try to explain again.
        Galactus’s has been alive since the universes recreation. As a result, not only is he more intelligent, he is more experienced. He’s seen countless worlds with countless fighters stronger than the ones we know. He even recruited some of them as his heralds and offered them even more power than they could imagine.
        However, as a result if having so much experience, he is very arrogant about his knowledge, thus leaving him feeling haughty even at his his hungriest. THAT is why he meets his downfall.
        The same thing has been the downfall for characters like Doom and Bass.EXE.
        So, ultimately, Galactus’ GREATEST weakness is his hubris, which seems to have been diluted while developing a relationship with Franklin Richards and while journeying beyond the Omniverse to aid it in its time of need.
        (Read the Ultmates #’s 1-4 to learn more)

        *Looks at young Goku pushing a rock*
        Yeeeeeaaah, that’s still not that great…

        He relies on his cosmic abilities too much?
        That’s like saying Goku relies on HIS energy too much.
        Why wouldn’t he depend on them?
        If I had the power to enhance my strength and knowledge without needing to train, I would.
        However, the Beyonder has had experience as a mortal and even felt the same limitations that come with being human.
        Goku does not have this.

        If you ask me, Goku is the one who depends heavily on his powers. If he didn’t have the power of flight, he would be drastically affected in the same manner as a bird with a clipped wing. After all, we see him using flight ALL THE TIME.
        Even the Beyonder can live without his ability of flight. He even decided to travel just by treading across train tracks on foot like an average Joe. That is, of course, until he disassembles a train piece by piece in the span of one page.

        You honestly think being sent out of orbit is an issue for him? He’ll just destroy the planet from deep space and let the airless vacuum end Goku while he floats with his bright signature smile. He’s not some blood thirsty warrior willing to charge in like a barbarian when the solution to his problem is so easy.
        I can see it now; that condescending expression of superiority.
        Better yet, he could just destroy Goku from the inside out on the subatomic level or just paralyze him.
        Fun fact: The Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) is capable of performing BILLIONS of feints, thrusts, and parries per second. Unfortunately, fighting at that speed makes his work less admirable to lesser beings with a lower comprehension, which sucks when you’re trying to give the people a show. What’s even more unfortunate is how illustrated combat speed at that time not yet reached the level we’re used to seeing. I’m pretty sure we still had about a decade before we made it to that point.
        Nevertheless, even if we were to count EVERY SINGLE PUNCH Goku has thrown in all of Dragon Ball history, it wouldn’t be anywhere near ONE billion.
        You’re more than welcome to try though 🙂

        He also has the power to clone himself.
        That or he was fast enough to occupy multiple areas at once.
        I feel inclined to suggest both…
        He can even turn himself invisible and intangible, which are also abilities that have given Goku a hard time in the past.

        No, Tolkien already confirmed this in an interview.
        Eru’s been working his “magic” since the First Age. It’s been implied several times before. Like I said, don’t make assumptions like these if you don’t know enough about the continuity.

        As for your view point on cosmic entities, you seem to be mistaken.
        I think I see how you view these entities. You think their just guys who were given power out of nowhere and placed themselves above everyone else.
        Well, you’re wrong.
        Let me try painting a picture for you. In OUR reality we have various elements that affect our lives. Space, time, matter, life, death, love, hate, order, chaos, existence,…entropy. These forces are aspects beyond our control due to them encompassing everything we are, everything we do, everything we’ve done, and everything we shall.
        Now, imagine those forces coming to life in the form of a voices.
        Forces that know the scale of the universe due to being a part of it.
        Imagine them feeling everything in reality acting in unison as a well-oiled machine where they were the components that kept it together.
        Imagine them feeling sad for a dying planet and proceeding to recreate it it.
        Imagine them seeing a warlord destroying civilizations and then proceed to eradicate him.
        Imagine them being able to see all that was, all that is, and all that will be, while being the very forces that dictate whether they happen or not.

        Do you see where I’m going with this?
        They’re not like characters like Goku or Superman. Their completely outside the very fundamentals that keep reality together, because they ARE reality.
        That’s why they have EVERYTHING to do with it.
        They ARE it.
        In fact, it has been confirmed that they have no form. In reality, they are intangible disembodied voices that can see everything. The only reason they have these forms is due to the M-bodies they were provided in order to have forms that can be comprehended,
        You may fail to understand this now, but eventually you’ll realize that you don’t need to be fighter in order to be a hero.
        And y’know what, they a pretty good job and they HAVE proven their power whether you’re willing to accept it or not.

        While they do not show their physical forms when mortals have the capacity to solve these problems without their direct intervention, they are not afraid to place their lives on the line to stop the unstoppable.

        Time and time again…

        …they faced dangers capable of besting our favorite heroes in an instant.
        https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-becfdcb48139db1d269e6e6ac5f35efe
        In addition, whether you are willing to notice this or not, they have gradually become more selfless.

        They have stood together against forces that could destroy everything with a single nonchalant strike.

        Yet, they strike back…

        …often at their own peril.

        So, before you decide to label these beings based on your linear perception of a powerful character, ask yourself this:

        …Why would a bunch cosmic couch potatoes…

        …protect mortal lives…

        …at the expense of their own…

        …even when faced with something beyond all of reality combined?

        You may not be willing to accept this, but everyone else is. They’re not just commentators; they just have a higher order of business that they must attend to as well. Besides, with their level of power, disrupting the natural progression of life when their physical assistance is not needed would result in more complacency throughout the Multiverse.
        You’re trying to create these convoluted conspiracy theories and supposedly orchestrated schemes that are too ridiculous to make any sense in order to make them seem like the bad guys.
        You can ignore the fact that they have been preserving the Multiverse, but what you believe does not change what is true.

        One more thing: You may have a knack for undermining characters that are too powerful to ever need to fight all the time, but Tolkien’s work will not be tainted in such a manner.

        I know this is a long post, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible.

      • I am an expert tbh. Just keep in mind that while Galactus can survive for a while, he won’t really be in fighting condition for very long. Trust me, I know just about all there is to know about Galactus. Why do you think I already have my own sub reddit?

        https://www.reddit.com/r/DReager1/

        I don’t see how confidence is Galactus’ greatest weakness either. Arrogance has always been a good quality imo so it’s something that he should keep. I’d sooner list his size and lack of mobility.

        Thing is, Goku doesn’t need to fly. He could still fly via ki blasts at extreme speeds. He’s also shown that he can fight on the ground. Beyonder has never shown us that he can engage in fisticuffs without cheesy reality warping or against other opponents where he’s throwing a billion punches a second. I’m talking about nitty gritty punching til the death kind of fights and Goku’s been in plenty of those. Lets face it, Goku’s just extremely powerful. The train example just shows that the Beyonder has no patience and is still a big showoff. Goku likes to show off, but at least he does it with a good animation budget and a lot of yelling. Beyonder can try to destroy the planet, but Goku would block with his ki or just catch the blast and send it back. Beyonder has no way of really dealing any damage since Goku is so much stronger and faster. It’s a hopeless fight for him. Goku can sense ki so being invisible wouldn’t help and energy blasts can deal with the intangibility. Lets face it, Beyonder’s only option is to hide in a pocket dimension to prolong the inevitable, but once Goku destroys everything, he’ll have nowhere to hide.

        I still don’t think I can buy this. We have to actually have proof that Eru did anything and the author can say what he wants, but he should have put it in the story if he wanted it to be valid.

        The whole cosmic array of links made me laugh so thanks. You’re suggesting that there’s something heroic to be found here, but not at all. In all of those scans, they’re just fighting for self preservation. They’re looking after themselves because they were going to be destroyed anyway. In the very first scan, LT threatens to destroy Dr. Strange just because he’s an ego maniac. The cosmic entities are all borderline evil and always have been. They aren’t preserving anything but their lives. Now Superman on the other hand…he fights for America and saves the world more times than even they can count.

        If a character is strong, their feats should show it. If they do not, you need to realize that the character is probably empty hype

      • I still find that very hard to believe that you know everything about him. You’re over exaggerating the severity of his hunger. I’ve already explained that he no longer has his cosmic hunger and is MUCH more powerful than he has ever been as a result of becoming a life energy source.

        Arrogance is a TERRIBLE quality. It’s a major obstruction for heroes and villains alike. Why else do you think Bass, Doom, and Goku keep failing. They have the power. They just lack the humility to take precautionary measures in case matters shift out of their favor.
        It’s more of a self-imposed weakness instead of a physical one.
        Some even do so to the point of overlooking the fact that all factors are in place for their demise.

        Fun Fact: Arrogance/Pride is one of the seven cardinal sins (or capital vices) in Catholicism.

        Either way, he is still dependent on ki energy in order to do it AND it’s still flying. Goku wouldn’t last a minute if he was grounded for good.
        Also, you are wrong about the Beyonder never engaging in direct combat. He was in a wrestling match with the Thing, he broke Celestial armor with his bare hands, he punched Power Man across a room, and he used his reflexes to grab Northstar, the living projectile out of the air. He is more than willing to engage in fisticuffs.
        Plus, he was still using physical force in a fight when he performed those billions of feints, thrusts, and parries. If the Beyonder is fast enough to react, strike, and jape opponents billions of times each second, he is faster in combat compared to Goku.
        True, he was trying to show off. However, he still had the time to casually walk instead of using his powers. Goku always needs rely on his ki just to get from one place to another.
        Also, you have pointed out yet ANOTHER tactic Goku relies on too heavily: ki sensing. Unfortunately, this won’t work on the Beyonder, seen as how he does not utilize ki.
        “energy blasts can deal with the intangibility.”
        When has Goku ever been able to strike something intangible? I’m genuinely curious to know when he did that and how 🙂
        Finally, why would the Beyonder need to fire a blast in order to destroy the planet? He could just as easily destroy it just by detonating the core with a snap of his fingers via molecular manipulation. It’s not that difficult for him.

        Have you even read any of Tolkien’s books? The Silmarillion has the most insight on Eru’s work.
        I’m convinced that you haven’t.
        You keep flaunting Cell’s solar system “feat” when he didn’t even destroy anything other than the ground beneath him.

        Are you sure about that? Let me explain the story behind those scans.

        1. The Living Tribunal has three faces that represent a specific aspect of his judgement: equity, necessity, and vengeance. All heads must agree on a course of action or address a certain problem that requires a certain approach. For this scan, vengeance is taking control as it represents the more direct and aggressive approach in the event a punishment must executed.
        This is why we don’t see this side of the Tribunal. He rarely takes such drastic action and usually never engages in dialogue while battling.
        The issue with the Tribunal is how his neutral nature can often leave him feeling less inclined to address issues when they flow with the course of balance or the crime itself does not pose as big of a threat to reality’s structure.
        In reality, of all the cosmic entities, he’s more of a analytical robot than a sentient being.

        2. If you notice that scan with Odin and Galactus, Odin is battling to protect a world Galactus plans to destroy. Why would Odin go through the trouble of defending a planet and defying the will of Galactus? It’s due to the fact that, though he wears a facade of superiority, he does still have a heart.
        Plus, he did it in one of the coolest suits of armor I have ever seen 😀

        3. If you bothered to read that scan, which I doubt you did, the cosmic hierarchy is fighting against Thanos after he obtained limitless power. They realize the heroes are too close and try to protect them by making an attempt to blast the titan to oblivion, to no avail. They even comment on the valiant effort of the heroes even when it was futile.

        4. As for the other scans, those took place during the Infinity War after Thanos wiped out half of the Universe’s life in a matter of minutes. His power was too great and his madness was greater. They were concerned knowing Thanos had more power than even he knew what to do with. Yet, Sire Hate, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Mistress Love, The Stranger, Epoch, Quasar, Kronos, and the Celestials all agreed too assist Adam Warlock in a plan to remove the power Thanos abused. It was only Eternity who acted out of such action, as he was the only true being affected in the most dire manner as a product of being the actuality of ALL things.
        The rest of the cosmic entities acted righteously and confronted Thanos with Warlock.

        5. The Beyonders were a threat overpowered to the point where they can puncture Hyperion’s eyes and rip Thor’s Asgradian skin laced-arm off as though it were a pen cap. Yet the cosmic entities were the only other beings who fought the Beyonders DIRECTLY while the other heroes worked out a plan to save as many survivors as they could, rather than add to the casualty count of their respective universes.
        However, they still died fighting when everyone else was running.

        You think they’re evil?
        Goku’s more than willing to let all hell break lose even at the expense of his friends just to get the chance to fight someone strong.

        Superman, has had numerous accounts where he acted like a real…
        Y’know what? I’m not even going to sugar coat it.
        He was a jerk and a bully more so towards his allies than his enemies.
        He was willing to let Jimmy and Aquaman suffer from dehydration while dangling a pitcher of water over their heads.
        He broke the unofficial superhero code and revealed the identity of a hero.
        He even destroyed the poorest neighborhoods in Metropolis.

        The list still goes on from there:

        DC is still trying to sweep all this under the rug too.

        Bass is no better…

      • Well…life can be deceiving.

        I gotta still disagree on the arrogance thing though. Not only is it a great quality for a character to have, but it’s a necessary one. What happens is, you need arrogance to reach for the stars and high five the sky…right. If Goku wasn’t constantly mocking his opponents and healing them so he could fight again…what would everyone else think. He puts people in danger and sacrifices lives for a good fight because it’s his jam. He knows that when the going gets tough, he gets even tougher. It just makes sense and it also makes the characters more fun. It’s part of why I love Bass although I’m not even sure I could call him arrogant since he is so much stronger than all of the other characters. If anything it’s just some self confidence on his part imo. Also Bass never fails, he’s too supreme.

        Goku would totally last a minute, did we read the same series? I feel like I just walked into a Burger King and someone asked me for a slice of pizza! Look, Goku breaks opponents, Beyonder breaks the rules. Even without his ki, Goku can jump over skyscrapers in a single bound. He’s more powerful than a locomotive and yells louder than a bird singing the National Anthem. He could still beat Superman and the others even if he couldn’t fly. Goku is faster than Superman and look what Superman did to the Flash without even flying.

        Awesome moment btw, finally proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Superman is wayyyyyyy faster than the Flash along with being stronger as well.

        Still, take away Beyonder’s hax and he wouldn’t last long. Put them on an even playing field and Goku wins. Give both of them their full powers and Goku still wins. Beyonder can’t snap his fingers and destroy anything while Goku’s on the prowl. How I see it, snapping his fingers still involves sending an energy pulse of some kind even if we can’t see it and Goku’s aura will stop it. Goku stops everything and that’s on a good day! The ki sensing will still work since it’s just a matter of life energy. Beyonder can’t hide from it.

        Here’s my proof for how Goku can hit people who are intangible. It’s pretty credible if you ask me.

        Aside from that, energy just always works on intangible people. It’s like how electricity also tends to work. They hit you on another level.

        I’ve never read any of those books. I’m currently working on finishing a Kingdom Hearts novel and the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series. That one hits close to home with how much he likes writing.

        I’d go through all of those examples, but the bottom line is that you’re taking it into the wrong perspective. The cosmic beings don’t care about anything but themselves. They destroy and destroy to fuel their own agenda. These guys aren’t here to help, they’re just here to pose and look good for the camera. These guys are krazy and I don’t always mean that in a good way. The Living Tribunal does seem a little insane and overly dramatic at times so I can kind of agree with you there, but I’d say that he makes a convincing case for being the villain in that scan. He is ready to attack Doctor Strange just because he can. That’s not very nice if you ask me.

        Superman’s heroic though. He gets the job done and always tries to be a nice guy. He even got a site called supermickery with one letter subbed out which contains all of his iffy moments to get them out of the way. It doesn’t change the fact that Superman’s usually a hero though.

        Bass is much better though. Remember the time he blew up an island by powering up? It takes me back to my Pizza Hut days. See, Pizza Hut wasn’t always amazing, it used to be spectacular. Then I went to a real Pizza Hut for the first time and it changed my life forever. No longer was I your mild mannered, average future star but now I was someone with a plan and a realization to make it happen. That one bite of pepperoni, cheese stuffed pizza changed my life forever and I’ll be lucky if I ever get another piece like that again. Domino’s wins with ingredients, Papa Johns wins with slogans, but Pizza Hut wins with the style. They can keep the taste, I’ll take the rep. It’s just scary how good the food is.

        Back on topic, I forgot where we’re up to at this point, but it probably had something to do with why Goku is the best. Goku isn’t just one of the fastest beings in all of media, but he’s also one of the strongest. He can use his Kamehameha wave to disintegrate just about everyone in his way. It’s not like he has to do that, but he may as well since he can show off a bit. If there’s a consistent thing about Goku, it’s that he’s always winning and dying. He gets the balance just right so it’s not cheesy nor is it a weakness. He allows himself to be identifiable while also keeping an air of superiority. Truly, Goku may just be one of the strongest heroes in existence. I’d personally put him at number 1 if we’re just talking heroes.

      • Arrogance is still a cardinal sin.
        The most heinous kind at that.

        Pride is not the source of reason. Determination is.
        Pride is the vain feeling that all others are beneath you and your only source of fulfillment is yourself. It is a lonely lifestyle.
        Determination, on the other hand, is the feeling that you have the capacity to break your limitations. However, you need to be aware of those limitations in order to surpass them.
        Everyone knows that.
        Only by admitting one’s faults can they emerge anew.
        The reason characters push themselves is not due to believing that they are better. They are inspired because they know they can DO better.
        A strong man surpasses his limits
        A stronger man knows what his limits are.
        It’s not admitting defeat. It’s knowing defeat IS possible, therefore you try to do what you can to avoid it.

        You’re making it sound like all of these qualities are good.
        Mocking opponents.
        Letting people into harms way.
        If Goku did act in such a brash and cruel way, he wouldn’t be a hero. He’d be like Vegeta in his early days.
        The way you described him does not sound like a hero.
        He sounds like a selfish, callous, over ambitious, barbarian who’s only concern is himself. It doesn’t make for a fun character. It makes for a mildly unnerving one.
        I wouldn’t stand by someone like that.
        It makes sense why you made Goku sound so..out of character when you tried illustrating this fight.
        Some expert you turned out to be :/
        For the record, Bass has failed before and he deserved it.
        Humility is an important quality to have.

        No he wouldn’t.
        Now that he’s used his ability of flight for so long, it’s something that has become part of his life. He can’t function without it.
        Goku NEEDS ki in order to do everything he’s ever done. It’s a life force that circulates for everyone, including pedestrians.
        Plus, a bird singing the national anthem is not that loud. It’s actually quite peaceful.
        Take away his ki and you take away any chance he has at winning.

        Obviously you don’t know much about subatomic control. All it takes is a telepathic scan of the Earth and a simple nudge. It doesn’t send energy, it merely effects the matter already within the Earth. Nevertheless, Goku would be decimated either way.
        Goku can’t stop something that has no material form. That kind of attack is not something Goku can block or counter. He can only affect PHYSICAL matter and that link is to a ten letter sentence that doesn’t even have a scan for proof.
        What’s even more sad is the fact that YOU were the one who posted it.
        Anyway, Goku’s aura doesn’t do anything defensive wise. It just affects how much power he’s burning. It’s not a polarity field against attacks attacks. If it were, he wouldn’t have had those instances where he’s been hurt.
        As it would seem, you have nothing to prove Goku can block intangible attacks and you have nothing to prove he doesn’t need ki to fight.
        Also, ki and cosmic energy are too completely different things. Goku can only sense one type of energy while the Beyonder has access to numerous forms of energy, of which ki is not included.
        I’ve already shown his combat experience and speed, which means the point you were trying to make is still… invalid.

        Destroy and destroy? WHAT?
        When have they destroyed anything that doesn’t pose a threat to life? Now I KNOW you’re making stuff up! 😠
        The Living Tribunal only acted that way because the face of vengeance is used to exact punishment. He’s never acted dramatic in any other comic with that kind of aggression before. It feels like your only reading what you want to see.
        You acting so unnecessarily hostile towards them for no reason. Compared to most characters, their saints. They’ve only had the best intentions at heart. They’ve tried to do the best they can to stop threats even when they are more powerful that every force in the Multiverse. I don’t see why it’s so difficult to see.
        The only selfish one out of ALL of them is Eternity, and he has very good reason for it.
        He is the entire universe and parts f him are destroyed all the time during such events. Resources are abused, people are killed, and
        What exactly did the cosmic entities do to make you think this way? Why are THEY the bane of this thread and not the characters who do the most destroying?
        Just because Dragon Ball’s gods are pathetic and disorderly doesn’t mean Marvel’s Cosmic Hierarchy follows the same path. Unlike their anime counterparts, the cosmic entities actually DO stuff and actually put their lives on the line when a crisis hits. The only destroyers I see are the kai’s, destroyer deities, and angels planning to let WHOLE UNIVERSES DIE!!! If the cosmic entities were in their place, they’re actually try to keep reality in tact.

        That doesn’t change the fact that he did those horrible things. Superman acted in a manner that hurt lives and feelings.
        DID YOU NOT SEE THE MADNESS IN THAT VIDEO?
        NO WONDER LUTHOR WANTS HIM GONE!
        I WOULD TOO!!!
        He has had an equally horrible reputation that is still valid regardless of how you swing it.

        No, Bass is has villainy in his eyes and selfishness in his heart. He is a force of darkness and nothing more.

        On a side note, I think you should put a disclaimer to make sure everyone knows that the content on this blog is strictly opinionated.

      • It’s like Super Vegeta always said. You can take a Saiyan’s reason away…but you can’t take his priiiiide!” I don’t know where some of these characters would be without that quality. You need it in order to win and save the planet from destruction.

        I dunno, that story was hype and Goku was on point. Not to brag, but I may be the best writer at portraying Goku tbh.

        smh. Bass has never failed. He’s the greatest. He’s got the perfect blend of arrogance and pride. He just pushes people around and they can’t do anything about it.

        Goku needs ki the same way I need a pepsi. It feels like a necessity but it really isn’t. A bird singing can be pretty loud though. Typically I have to sing along or risk having my voice drowned out.

        Nah, telepathic cheese tactics like that won’t work. Instead, we’ll just see Goku power up and everyone will get nervous. Goku’s a nice guy, but he’ll get serious if it’s to protect his friends! It’s why he’s the saiyan of legend, the strongest being out there, the big cheese, etc, etc. His aura is defensive because it’s energy. Moreover, Goku is so fast and strong that he can always rise up to block the Beyonder. No prob. Not to mention that intangibility is overrated against energy attacks.

        Well, Dr. Strange is an example of someone LT tried to destroy for no reason in the 1st slide. Look, I’m gonna level with you. These cosmic beings are all very self centered and mean. They’re some of the meanest guys that I’ve seen and I wouldn’t trust them to hold my notebook. I don’t mean to come off as aggressive, just matter of fact. These guys would cut you in line if they could and I wouldn’t call them heroic by any stretch of the imagination. I’d go as far as to say that Bass is more heroic or early saga Vegeta.

        Dragon Ball’s gods could easily wreck Marvel’s though. All they would need is Beerus.

        As for Superman, that’s because there are a lot of writers and half of them don’t know what they’re doing. Superman’s still a nice guy who knows what he’s going. He only breaks bones when he has too. As for Bass, he’s a nice guy once you get to know him.

        Nah, remember that my blog has a 100% accuracy policy. That means we look at just the facts so no opinions are considered.

      • Pride is still a heinous sin.

        It has served as the downfall of many heroes and villain before. Goku and Vegeta are prime examples of that. Their motivation for getting stronger comes from their belief that they CAN get stronger. If they were as arrogant as you say, then they wouldn’t try to get stronger at all. They would already have satisfaction with their strength and ultimately have no reason to be anymore than what they are, due to feeling that what they are is perfect, which they are not in any way.
        Take Vegeta’s encounter with Semi-Perfect Cell for instance. Vegeta was high and mighty while beating Cell to a pulp to the point where he let Cell reach his perfect form. As a result, Cell effortlessly bested Vegeta and would have killed him had it not been for his more rational mined son. If Vegeta had kept his pride in check, Cell would have been vanquished and he wouldn’t have needed to suffer such humiliation. Vegeta was a fool not to end it there.
        Even Goku has shown respect for Vegeta in the rare instances where he swallows his pride for the greater good.

        No, you made Goku sound like a raging antagonist with blood lust on his mind. It wasn’t who he really was.
        Goku is supposed to be a GOOD guy. He’s characterized as an individual with a pure-heart and good intentions even in the face of adversity. YOU characterized him as a cold-blooded monster willing to kill anything even if it does not try to pose a threat. It’s not his way.

        Bass failed against Nebula Grey. He was overpowered even with his strongest attack and needed to fuse with Megaman in order to do damage to him. Even then, he still got caught in his jaws afterwards.
        You may think he’s the strongest, but Bass has not done anything to deserve that title.
        Sinking an island?
        Shaking an earth-sized planet?
        Destroying a black hole?
        None of this is deserving of such a title.

        Dude, every power feat Goku has achieved has been due to his ki. Without it, he’s just a man without any power whatsoever.
        Fun Fact: Akira Toriyama based ki on chi, the life force said to exist in all living creatures.

        I don’t see why they won’t work, Goku’s been subjected to intangible attacks from Master Roshi, Chiaotzu, General Blue, Frieza, the Para Para Brothers, and has even shown vulnerability to telepathic interaction from kai’s unaware or otherwise.
        Even if he does keep powering up, the Beyonder will just be in deep space wonder why Goku isn’t flying up to him. If Goku’s aura is defensive like you say it is, why can he still be harmed by flying debris and attacks of every kind? It doesn’t have any significance defensive wise.
        Like I said before, the Beyonder’s enhanced speed gives him the power to attack and counter billions of times every second. Goku is not that fast in combat.

        Are you even reading everything I am typing? I am being as clear as day when explaining this.
        The Living Tribunal who was speaking to Strange was acting that way as the face of VENGEANCE due to being placed in a combat scenario. He acts differently when he is addressing a judicial summon because the face of EQUITY is taking charge at that point. He’s never shown any sign of evil other than that. Either way, when you’re trying to thwart an ancient evil, it doesn’t help when others are trying to interrupt your concentration. Has it even occurred to you that the Living Tribunal may prefer not engage in combat due to the aggressiveness of his third face?
        Besides, even if that were the case, it is far from the worse thing he’s done compared to Superman, Bass, and Goku.
        I mean, when Goku was in combat mode like LT, he threatened his own son, Superman’s had numerous accounts of adultery, and Bass is more than willing to kill anyone just for the sake of being a cruel and villainous. As far as I can tell, these guys have more evil in the smallest fragment of their being than the Tribunal has in his entire M-body.
        I hope you’re not trying to discriminate the entire hierarchy with ONE instance from the past. That still doesn’t show any reason why they should ALL be classified as evil. Everyone has their moments and the hierarchy’s moments are very, very rare compared to that of the other characters on the blog.

        As far as I can tell, most of the DBZ gods barely do anything to deserve that kind of classification. Most, if not all of them haven’t really done anything to deserve any praise thus far.

        You do realize the people who originally created Superman were responsible for most of those right? Even in modern day comics Superman has still been involved in numerous misdemeanors in the books, shows, and movies. It’s practically a part of his character now.
        Bass has never shown anything but dastardly intentions since day one. He is just another stereotypical anime villain/rival. He is the evil one in this scenario.

        Nope. I see your opinionated comments everywhere. This blog is no different than the posts I see on other blogs and custom wiki pages. You just take to the extremes with that extra layer of “I think I’m always right even when I’m clearly wrong” to add to how many false statements are posted in this thread alone.
        It’s very common on the internet.

      • Nah, Vegeta was just showing Cell how it is. As for Goku and Vegeta, keep in mind that arrogance wants you to keep getting stronger as well so you can keep bragging. As I said though, I do think they have the right mix of arrogance and pride so it’s not purely the former. That would be a little dicey.

        My portrayal of Goku wasn’t that antagonistic. He just got the job done.

        Whoa there, Bass Is the strongest. Lets play this out. Say someone wants to attack Bass. Well, then they get destroyed. Nebula Grey did his best to be sure, but Bass had that round. Grey just had to rely on a bunch of cheesy tactics and Megaman distractions. Bass would have won otherwise.

        Things will melt when they hit Goku’s ki. Beyonder can try to camp him out, but Goku will wreck him. Remember that Goku is a lot faster and stronger. DBZ gods are all uber powerful.

        The blog’s super accurate!

        Okay, this was a brief reply. I’ll be back with a real one later.

      • All right, time for more of a full reply here. Now I wouldn’t say that my version of Goku felt bloodlusted. He was just a little irritated at having to fight someone so weak and wanted to move on. TOAA’s grandstanding and meta nonsense had also gotten on his last nerve. Still, I thought that Goku was as heroic as ever. He’s still a nice guy.

        Even without his ki, Goku is a master martial artist. Also, for the hypothetical I’m just talking about him not being able to charge it to use for attacks and such. As you said, Ki is his life force so taking it away would effectively mean talking about a dead Goku.

        Telekinetic abilities rely on getting past the opponent’s defenses. Nothing that these guys have can do that…especially when we’re talking about Goku here. Goku is on a completely different level and all intangible attacks are still like tangible ones, they’re just invisible. Goku scoffs at their feeble attempts to stop him. He’s the mighty Goku after all! He’s nobody’s fool. He just has to power up and it’ll all bounce back.

        You may be wondering how his aura is a defensive option. Well, just think back to shows like Yu Yu Hakusho where aura was shown to burn people or One Piece where it knocks them out. Aura has always been an incredible skill to have and Goku’s is far stronger than those guys. Any attack that the Beyonder has will be easily deflected.

        Goku’s still faster and stronger than Beyonder. That seems to be the main point at which we disagree with the other dozens/hundreds of points being on the backburner. Beyonder simply isn’t at the same level. I could post a scan of Goku fighting Android 19 and it would completely invalidate all of the Beyonder moments. At the end of the day, he’s just a normal guy trying to look impressive and make a quick buck. That’s not enough to scare Goku. Goku has shown repeatedly just how fast and strong he is. He’s on a different level. He was the guy who made anime great again. Goku just can’t be surpassed. He’s massively FTL and I don’t know how many punches he can throw in a second, but it’s definitely a lot. The only character who I’d consider to be faster than him is Megaman.exe and Bass of course but that goes without saying.

        We can say that it was the face of vengence, but it’s still The Living Tribunal. Thus, LT is clearly crazy and cannot be trusted. If he can’t even control his own faces then how can we consider him to be a hero or even an anti-hero? He acts in his own interests just like the other cosmic beings. I don’t mean to discriminate against them all, but I can’t think of a single cosmic character who has ever acted like a hero. They all seem like a den of thieves/villains to me. Lets go back to Superman and Goku since you used them as an example.

        Goku has always been a hero without equal. He’s completely selfless and tries to save the world as many times as possible. He may be on the lookout for a good fight, but you really can’t call him morally dubious. He just gets the job done and does what he has to do in order to win. He protects the innocent bystanders as well.

        http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ngrey651/media/Supes20.png.html

        As for Superman, he’s the nicest guy you will ever meet. He’s the kind of guy you could share a Pepsi with. We have whole movies dedicated to his heroism. Some writers may not understand him, but Superman does his best to help everyone out. He’s a Hero’s hero. I’d talk about Bass as well, but there’s no need. We all know how awesome he is!

        Well, I agree that the DBZ cosmic beings are overhyped. Beerus is the only one who has actually done anything. They’re still better than the comic book counterparts, but I would take Goku and Vegeta over them in an instant. Those Saiyans know how to win and fight.

        This blog has a 100% accuracy policy tho

    • stats for pr reac Beyonder

      Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Reality Manipulation, Immortality, Durability Negation, Elemental Manipulation, True Flight, Regeneration, Space-Time Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Non-Corporeal, Omnipresence (while within the Beyond Realm), Matter Manipulation, Teleportation, Creation, Concept Manipulation, Causality Manipulation

      Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is in fact another Multiverse. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)

      Speed: Immeasurable, Omnipresent within the Beyond-Realm

      Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

      Striking Strength: High Hyperversal

      Durability: High Hyperverse level

      Stamina: Limitless

      Range: High Hyperversal

      Standard Equipment: None

      Intelligence: Questionable. Presumably Nigh-Omniscient (He claimed to be fully omniscient, but formerly did not know about the regular Marvel Multiverse, and had to learn everything by experience.)

      Weaknesses: none known.

      • and he could encase goku in neutron star material. i won’t bore you with the math but neutron star material weights about 4 billion tons per teaspoon. goku is 5’7, convert than into cubic feet, turn teaspoon into tablespoon, into gallon, into cubic feet, let’s say he encases goku with a extra foot….and boom! goku is now encased in neutron star material and it weighs about 2,205,941,760,000,000 to the sixth power tons. goku’s beat feat(that i know of) is about 10 septillion pounds. *mic drop*

      • How would he get Goku in the box? Lets not forget that Goku is a whole lot faster than TOAA and his physical abilities are on a completely different level as well. If anything, Goku would put him in the box and TOAA couldn’t break out. The average senior citizen can’t even bend steel so TOAA would really be trapped.

    • That feat always comes back because it’s just sooo impressive! Seriously, I could post that scan for hours. Shaking up the planet is a pretty good start though

  17. @Dreager1 You have shown nothing that proves that Goku is omniversal. We constantly get the same, generic scan of Cell destroying a solar system. We’re talking OMNIVERSAL. Not planet level/solar system level. Have any scans of Goku having omniversal feats? No.

  18. because goku can’t go that fast. why you ask? well for one he doesn’t have the Speed Force. the flash does. so he can pretty much go as fast as he wants to. and goku has never broken the time barer.

    • The Speed Force isn’t as fast as Goku tho. Lets think about this for a sec, how could the speed force ever hope to keep up with a guy who can destroy whole solar systems? Goku has outraced ki blasts and all kinda of crazy villains throughout the years. Flash gets tripped up by humans like Deathstroke and taken down by opponents like Captain Cold. There’s no comparison here

      • this is the biggest slip up you made. so far. the Speed Force keeps atoms together, it keeps the universe expanding. the flash and others use almost nothing. the speed force made the flash faster than speed. yes, he was going so fast that he was going faster than speed. he was going trans-time velocity. the flash thinks in an attosecond. For context, an attosecond is to a second what a second is to about 31.71 billion years. 1 attosecond: the time it takes for light to travel the length of two hydrogen atoms. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjK6N7A767TAhVC54MKHQQZAxUQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicvine.gamespot.com%2Fbarry-allen%2F4005-22804%2Fforums%2Fflash-max-speed-704188%2F&psig=AFQjCNGn4RInnNqeawzJpB1SkJ5WdaIfNg&ust=1492634169248458

        he is faster than space and time. he can go faster than 23,759,449,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, xc Quattuordecillion times the speed of light.
        he out ran creation and the special death made just for speedsters. and when he out ran instant teleportation he was only using a bit of the Speed Force. and the flash can steal speed making the person immobile and speeding him up. goku has nothing on flash.

      • Lets calm down here, I’ve made much bigger slip ups. Remember when I said that Goku could beat the entire Marvel and DC universes teaming up? Well, I guess that wasn’t a slip up. Either way, Flash can’t handle this level of power. Seriously, he’d have better luck trying to run away from Goku. Goku has never tried to outrun time and he has outrun Butta, the fastest in the universe. Goku even outsped Frieza which is an incredible feat. Meanwhile, we have Flash getting speedblitzed by the Music Meister.

        Goku would easily out run such a villain.

      • That’s one of those fake feats though. Let me show my counter.

        If he could perceive such small amounts of time, then he would never get hit like this

      • i’m talking about Wally West not Barry Allan. that comic is a compleatly different one. and he was nerfed a ton in the show. please refer the the OP

      • Fair enough, but Wally West has also had the same thing happen to him many times. Trust me, that scan is just hype, it’s not accurate.

      • Yes because it didn’t really happen or rather it shouldn’t have. Could have should have would have, they’re all valid counter points. Remember when Cell destroyed a solar system? That wasn’t hype, it was a feat. The Flash example is hype because it goes against every single appearance in previous comics. It’s the author trying to one up his buddies, but it just doesn’t work and must be disregarded.

      • Jay Wile is a guy who wrights “science” books. if you could call it that. he lies and dismisses evidence. like you. feats are feats and can’t be dismissed.

      • I don’t see how I sound like the guy then to be honest. Well, there are feats and then there are “feats”. Distinguishing between them can be difficult

  19. Dreager1, I have to say that you are the most utterly ignorant people I have ever seen. I fell like I want to puke at your face just from the mere thoughts of your very existence. Like seriously,you really think Goku ,who’s absolute best feat at his strongest can only shake a whole universe,can easily solo 99.9% of all fiction,where even 0.5% of fictions have characters like ZeedMillenniummon from Digimon who literally eats an infinite number of universes as breakfast. And he is nowhere near even the 10th strongest character in fictions. You literally think Goku can easily one shot TOAA with a single Kamehameha blast when it is just a simple blast that has no special abilities other than blow up things and that beings that are much weaker than TOAA on an incomparably massive scale can straight up eat the beam like it was nothing. Goku is not even the strongest character in his own world and could stand up to the likes of Zeno. And even Zeno himself is nothing but pure annoyance to most characters like ZeedMillenniummon, who as I mentioned earlier eats infinite multiverse on a regular basis. If you really still thinks Goku can solo 99.9% of fiction , then you might as well go back to school for kindergarten . In other word, forget you

      • wow. LM is Satan. the fallen angel that lead the rebellion ageist Jesus. he is immortal, nay-omnipotent, and has high reality warping powers. and he can fight hand to hand fairly well.

      • have you ever read Suicide Risk? it’s a good comic. one of the guys is Minus-i. he is immune to anything. anything. when someone attacks him their powers turn ageist them. no matter what.(well except omnipotent people.) he has something called Omni-Negation. if you Google “Minus-i Suicide risk” it should be the first image. there is nothing that can hurt him. he has one of the many powers of Omnipotence. anyone who has Omni-Negation is invincible.
        more powers of Omnipotence.
        http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Omnipotent_Powers

        http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Omniverse_powers
        one that i found extremely interesting was Totality Manipulation. it said
        “The user can manipulate the concept of totality, and is capable of manipulating the entirety of anything. They can manipulate the totality, which is forever the largest thing conceptualized and imagined by any mind. It absolutely encompasses anything and everything, making the user essentially omnipotent. Even though the user can transcend everything and has power over everything too, they may or may not be the origin of it all”

      • I can’t say that the series sounds like my kind of thing, but seems interesting enough. He could be a decent fighter if he works really hard and does his best to stay at the top of his game. The link you posted is pretty cool since it shows a character who is omnipotent and tough at the same time. I’m talking about Naijimi Aijimu (I probably messed that name up) from Medaka Box. She is all powerful, but still knows how to fight which is incredible. Honestly, she’s just an awesome well rounded character.

      • yes i like her. but Minus-i is not omnipotent. he just has one of the weaker powers. but he still is invincible. he doesn’t even have to fight, the other person just has to be near him or attack him.

      • True, he’s definitely not as strong, but he seems like he has heart so I can roll with that. I have a feeling that I won’t like him much as a character, but I probably shouldn’t judge until I read the actual comic.

  20. he looks like he has a heart? to me he looks like he’s dead inside. ;P. but yeah. he only have that one power. but that is good.

      • What plot hax were involved?

        No one knows the full extent of Beerus’ destructive capabilities. He has MILLIONS of years worth of combat experience under his belt, knowledge from unknown worlds, and god ki obtained through natural means that far exceeds kai standards. Even now Beerus is still training under Whis in HIS journey to grow stronger.
        It only makes sense that he was able to best Goku so easily without suffering any damage.

        Unfortunately, none of the deities in Dragon Ball have really done anything particularly impressive by Marvel standards, especially when you actually look deeper into the lore of both franchises.

      • Well, the writers of DB Super and the two original movies had to nerf Goku to make Beerus look impressive. If we’re being honest with ourselves, then Goku should have easily wrecked the poor guy. He just had no real chance against the Saiyan of legend. Goku has more actual combat experience if you ask me. Remember that Beerus has been sleeping for the majority of his life. He also doesn’t seem serious about training given his attitude and all. I gotta say that I would still choose him over the Marvel overlords though. At least Beerus has proven that he can fight.

      • And Marvel’s entities haven’t?
        You do realize there are even more battles they’ve fought in other than those ones right?
        In fact, they’ve been in more fights than all of the gods in Dragon Ball.

      • They’ve been in a lot of meta energy blast fights. Not real hand to hand battles like Beerus and friends. Trust me, the battles barely count otherwise so they’re not even worth it.

      • For your information, the cosmic entities HAVE engaged in hand to hand combat before. They just know energy powers are more effective. You’re probably oblivious to these fights as a product of not taken the time to go into the entirety of the Marvel Comics lore before making accusations based on their power. You did the same thing when addressing the most powerful characters from Tolkien’s universe without even reading the Silmarillion OR Tolkien’s Letters.

        Against threats with the power to best the strongest heroes and villains with only a fraction of their power, they have put up a far greater fight.

        Besides, they’re practically immortal and indestructible to attacks from linear beings like Goku. Most of them can just resurrect themselves after dying or just have incorporeal forms that can’t be touched at all.

      • Shots fired. Trust me, these cosmic guys are all talk. Their hand to hand skills pale in comparison to guys like Yamcha and Tien.

  21. Yet, Dreager1 claims that Goku is omniversal. But we always come back to Cell’s solar system busting feat. And if we’re going by such logic, I can make a case that the World Engine is omniversal if you insist Cell’s solar system busting feat makes him all-powerful.

    • I have to bring that feat back all of the time because people forget about it. Cell’s feat was masterful and what’s the World Engine? I can’t recall it off the top of my head at any rate, but I doubt that it’s omniversal.

      • this is your logic
        “blowing up a island is just like blowing up a multiverse! and goku can’t be hurt by anything because he has will power!”

        by that logic Ash Kechum would beat goku because he has will power. one masterball and goku is done. and Ash wouldn’t even be hurt because he has will power!

      • Well, lets say that the first half is accurate. For the second half, will power just protects against mental, spiritual, and meta attacks. It still can’t make up for raw power or speed. So, Ash still couldn’t keep up with Goku.

  22. *deep inhale* i don’t want to make this about religion but i guess i have too now. 1) god is not real. ether there is no god or he is just a super advanced human. that is what i believe.
    2) if he was real he would be worse than the devil. you know, killing everyone, killing tons of people a lot, sending people to hell for disagreeing with him, allowing evil in this world, and think about this, only Noah and his family are left right? then how did they repopulate? just think about that for a bit.

    • I can counter that one pretty easy. 1. God is real. As a Christian I believe that going through him is the only way to Heaven and we’re all doomed otherwise. Furthermore, what’s with the choices? Either he’s fake or a human? What about him being an alien, a being we can’t understand, etc. He’s a lot closer to the 2nd as we can’t fully understand him or how he exists, but we do know that he’s God and that’s good enough.

      God has always given people a choice. If you make the wrong one, then a bad result should be expected.

      • 1) what i meant was that logically the most likely choice is that god does not exist or that “god” is just a human or alien from a super advanced civilization. like a civilization 6.

        2) that would be like me asking “do you want strawberry ice cream or chocolate? if you chose strawberry i’ll kill you and your family.”

      • 1. Keep in mind that “Logically” the world was flat for a while. We’re always limited in knowledge which leads us to false results all the time.

        2. It’s more like “Do you want to walk to New York or through a volcano? The latter will kill you, but it’s your choice”

      • @Dreager1 Beyond omnipotence is a joke. Omnipotence means all-powerful. An omnipotent being could destroy the Omniverse. An omnipotent being is the strongest in all of existence and being beyond that is saying your beyond the Omniverse, and there’s no such thing.

      • Omniversal beings aren’t the strongest though. Just take a look at Bass or Goku? They don’t need it and still clobber everybody

      • *cue me slamming my head on my desk screaming “HOW are you so dumb?!”*
        someone who is omnipotent is all powerful, immortal, unbeatable, and unstoppable. they can manipulate anything. they can say “1 + 1 = 16” and if they want it to be true it would be. they can manipulate quantum foam, what makes up quantum strings, what’s what makes up everything. their will is law, no no. their will is REALITY. here is the definition of omnipotence.

        “Omnipotence (from Latin: Omni Potens: “all power”) is the ability to be almighty in every sense and aspect.

        The user can achieve and do absolutely anything without any limit or condition, including the conceptually impossible and logically impossible, like “bigger than infinity” or “making a squared circle”.

        Its one and only wielder (there can be only one in each fictional continuity, hence the “Above All”) is fundamentally invincible, completely immune to all other powers, and able to defeat the combined might of all creation and its mightiest beings just by wanting it, without the slightest effort.”

        they can do anything they want without even trying. they can count past infinity. they can change anything, like say, time and space, or the 12th dimension. they don’t have to obey any law, man made or just laws of reality. omnipotent people have a thing called complete arsenal. the definition.

        “User has an endless number of abilities, covering every possible effect and countermeasure. They can use any existing power as well as those that are yet to be, as their complete power database includes all potential abilities.

        This power is similar to Meta Ability Creation, except that all possible and impossible abilities are already created, regardless of their level.

        User has complete mastery and exhaustive knowledge of all of their abilities, (nature, effect, characteristics, strengths/weakness, etc.) including knowing which ones are best suited for every situation, all possible combos, and can use them flawlessly in any condition.

        User can instantly use and combine any number of them, often flooding their opponents with overwhelming torrents of highly efficient combinations.”

        they are beyond everything. they can do impossible things. they are every where, they know ALL. goku CAN NOT beat someone who is unbeatable. they would crush goku without even trying.

        would you like a list of a few of the powers of omnipotence? here you go
        http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Omnipotent_Powers

        the wiki page

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

      • Check this out at 1.25 speed.

        Physical power always works no matter the circumstances. You’ll notice that Ichigo was able to block an energy blast with his hand and really took it to Ginjo. Omnipotent abilities don’t count for much in the grand scheme of things. Sure, Ginjo isn’t omnipotent, but it doesn’t change the argument. Omnipotent fighters are cool, but you still need actual feats and close quarters combat experience. Without those two things you are probably gonna be doomed in the end.

        Also, nobody is unbeatable aside from Bass. Goku can hold his own and has done so over the years. He has the skills to pay the bills!

      • look up and read my post and all the wiki stuff and you’ll see that you’re wrong.

      • You do realize characters with omnipotent powers can enhance their physical attributes and combative capabilities right? If they are truly omnipotent, their strength, speed, and durability can be increased to limitless levels.
        That’s the thing with omnipotence. Because you have the power to do what you want, you can be as powerful as you want.
        Instead of muddying your clothes with training, you can multiply your power in seconds, whereas Goku would need to train for almost a year. All you need is creativity.

        Am I the only person who thinks it’s a bit hypocritical of Dreager to persecute comic book writers for making completely invincible characters when he has a list of characters he provided with power handicaps that make them immune to defeat?

        Am I also the only one who sees the noticeably uncanny similarities between Goku (as well as the rest of the characters in Dragon Ball) and the cosmic entities?
        If so, you might change your mind after I explain.

      • Trust me, you’re not the only person. As for the former, omnipotents can try to enhance themselves but it will never be as good as a natural born physical fighter. That’s my view imo

      • I have also noticed that you have claimed that Goku is immune to “meta attacks” in spite of the fact that he has been thwarted by weaker variations of said attacks throughout the continuity.

        Why is that?

    • @Achangel yup. i’ve seen that too. he said bass is unbeatable but he is not. he said goku is almost unbeatable but he is not. he said goku can take down someone who is unbeatable. someone who is omnipotent is immune to everything, and can do anything.

      i think we all know dreager is just a butt hurt dbztard who can admit his fav dbz character would get beat down by someone.

  23. @Dreager1 No, you’ve been owned again. Prove that Goku could beat an omnipotent. An omnipotent would just increase its power higher than Goku or quickly snap their fingers and Goku would no longer exist.

    • I never get owned. I would link the Cell solar system busting feat but I’m on mobile right now so that would be tough. If you want proof, just go and watch Goku vs Android 19 again

      • well you just got owned! you keep bring up cell’s solar system feat but an omnipotent person can bust omniverse+.

      • oh the solar system feat! you do know that a solar system is smaller than a omniverse right? that is a solar system feat not a omniverse feat. i still don’t think you know how powerful omnipotence is.

      • yeah, it’s nothing to sneeze at but it’s nothing compared to a easy omniverse+ feat.

      • but that is still nothing compared to what omnipotence can break. the biggest thing ever the Final omniverse.

      • Is that bigger than a Quarter Pounder at McDonalds with a large side of fries?

        In all seriousness though, when does it end? The terms start to lose meaning after a while imo

  24. When has Eternity ever been shown feeling nervous in the face of anyone?

    When have the cosmic entities ever shown any lack of intelligence?

    How exactly did DarkLK slip up?

    Why are trying to add antagonistic attributes to all-powerful extraterrestrial deities when Bass has more malevolence in his heart than all of them combined?

    Why do you hate them so much?
    You keep calling them the bad guys without providing anything that supports your statement.

    You keep calling them lairs when their claims HAVE been proven.

    You keep calling them weak when they HAVE put up a greater fight than every other hero and/or villain against over-powered threats.

    You keep downplaying their intelligence when, unlike Bass and Goku, they understand the gravity of the greater good throughout their multilayered existence and possess knowledge from the down of life’s emergence.

    What did they do to provoke this outlandish behavior?

    Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that they are the good guys, especially when they fight battles most wouldn’t survive seconds in and the fact that they desire to preserve life.

    What is your problem with them?

    What did THEY do to make you SO devoted to dedicating an entire blog to making them look like menaces?

    Why create a fight thread with a character you don’t believe has the power to fight? If you don’t believe he has any power to fight… WHY EVEN BOTHER PUTTING HIM IN HUNDREDS OF FIGHTS ON A FIGHT BLOG?!?

    Why Dreager1?

    Just….Why?

    Are you a comic book atheist?

    Do you just hate the idea of beings who can best a foe without even lifting a finger and reveal overwhelming power when they DO decide to lift a finger?

    What could you possibly hope to gain from doing this?

    You’re obviously not getting accolades.
    The only accolade I saw was the one like that YOU left.

    Just about EVERY comment here is full of discontent towards this foolishness.

    What do you hope to achieve from this?

    • Eternity is constantly nervous. I forgot the issue, but he was panicking about someone trying to destroy him or something.

      The Cosmic Entities fall for the simplest of traps. Remember Silver Surfer and Dr. Doom?

      Dark LK slipped up by posting this scan http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111295188/5492244-odin2.jpg

      Which showed that even Warlock knew TOAA was just a title. “Another thing yet to be proven”

      Bass isn’t a bad guy…he’s just done some bad things. The cosmic guys are way worse!

      I don’t heavily dislike the cosmic guys…I just don’t think they’re very tough. They’re actually kind of likable once you get to know them.

      Which claims have been proven?

      Well, they are pretty weak. Put Superman in the ring with them and they won’t last long. I also can’t say that they’re very smart. Guys like Batman do the actual detective work.

      My blog is dedicated to the facts, not to humiliating cosmic beings.

      I reject the idea of a being who can beat people with a wink or just by thinking about it. It’s not logical and can’t happen. Someone being melted by aura? I can buy that, but after a certain extent, it’s not enough to beat a truly powerful foe. I do like leaving myself accolades I admit. Have you seen my sub reddit? It’s pretty hype!

      • show me one scan when Eternity was nervous.

        The Dark LK did not slip up. why do you think so?

        when did Warlock say that?

        Hitler also did some bad things but he did way more good things too.

        they aren’t TOUGH ENOUGH? they are at galaxy+ level, goku is solar system at best.

        ask batman to explain how the universe works and then ask the Watcher the same and you’ll see the Watcher will be smarter. also Superman would be destroyed to a string level in less than a instant if TOAA wanted he to be.

        FACTS? FACTS?! when you are constantly power scaling? when you say than blowing up an island is universal+?! when you make up stuff that makes goku stronger?! HA FACTS!

        AND YET YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?! YOU BELIEVE HE IS ALL POWERFUL, AND YOU SAID YOU DON’T BELIEVE IS PEOPLE WHO DO STUFF BY THINKING ABOUT IT! THAT IS HYPOCRITICAL! YOU SAID THAT AN AURA IS NOT ENOUGH VS SOMEONE WHO IS TOO POWERFUL AND YET YOU SAY WILL POWER IS ENOUGH WHEN IT’S HELPFUL TO GOKU! IT’S NOT LOGICAL?! NETHER IS BELIEVING IN GOD! AND YOUR SUB IS ALL HYPE, IT SUCKS!

        sorry for all caps, i’m just so angry at this hypocritical moron.

      • Finding the scan will be tough.

        I just explained. Look at the scan that I posted or the one that he posted.

        Warlock says it in the scan

        Hitler only did bad things and he was a bad person

        Goku is omniversal

        Batman would give the better answer. Also, Superman can wreck TOAA.

        I only use Facts!

        God is real and all powerful.

        No worries bruh

      • he said that it’s yet to be proven because he has not seen it.

        Hitler did some good things.

        goku is not omniversel. show me one FEAT, not power scaling.

        superman? the guy who got beaten by a normal human with a power suit? and batman is not that smart.

        ha! facts. then you go and make crap up.

        and yet you said that you don’t believe in a person who can kill someone by blinking?

        cool.

      • Until I see proof of this, which you also fail to provide for your claims and allegations, I have no reason to believe you.
        In addition, if you do provide said scan, it will more than likely lead to an instance that will fall into my favor, as Eternity more than likely did so against a mightier foe or an event that could collapse reality.
        It still doesn’t change the courageous act the cosmic entities pulled by fighting a Beyonder army when no one else could.
        One alone had the power to blind the great Hyperion, remove Thor’s arm and force Starbrand to kill himself.
        In the end, everyone died fighting…
        Yet, in spite of all of this, the Living Tribunal was the only one whose body was durable enough to stay in tact even after being killed.

        The Surfer is a being who still possesses a naive viewpoint on life. He still has a mortal mind that can be fooled.
        He lost his powers because he voluntarily allowed Doom to absorb it, which then gave Victor the experience to face off against other powerful beings, both cosmic and otherwise.

        The same thing would happen if he met Goku, especially when we consider how slow he can be in tests of true intelligence.
        Being a scientist, he would bring the saiyan into a false sense of comfort by suggesting he desires to study his godlike biology in the hopes to learn of his mighty species. In addition, being the sovereign ruler of Latveria, he would treat Goku to the best feast he could ever hope to enjoy.
        Ever prideful, naive, foolish, and hungry, Goku would let Doom use his “scanner” to siphon Goku’s ki while suggesting that he rests due to how long the calculations would take.
        Doom would then spend time training his body to learn every technique in the Dragon Ball continuity via secretive observation and/or interrogation.
        The kaio-ken, the Kamehameha, the Spirit Bomb, the after image technique, the Super Dragon Fist, the Solar Flare, etc.
        With Doom’s genius, combat capabilities, and supernatural expertise, he would become unstoppable.
        Within months, Doom would have all of Dragon Ball under his iron fist thanks to Goku.
        Those aren’t just simple traps. Those are carefully laid out plans created by the king of prep (next to Batman).

        Cut to, Adam Warlock getting his godly powers taken way by the Living Tribunal.

        You do realize Adam’s power is a byproduct of him being empowered by one of the infinity gems right?

        A FEW BAD THINGS?
        Dreager, compared to his animated counterpart, he’s callous and cruel to no end. He has that manacle smile that still leaves me with a sour feeling.
        He is incredibly aggressive, often letting his hate for mankind get in the way of his goals. Even when he has the upper hand, he feels the need to torment his enemies rather than finish the job.
        Like I said, the cosmic entities understand the greater good. They take no enjoyment in senseless destruction (accept Lord Chaos due to Lord Order needing a polar opposite.)
        They just do what they know needs to be done in order to secure the Multiverse. Bass does it for his own selfish gain.
        So, I’ll ask again hoping for a real answer:
        What have the cosmic entities done to make them worse than Bass?

        Well, they are tough.
        Whether you think so or not doesn’t really change the fact that they are overpowered, especially when the best their opponent can do is destroy a galaxy.

        Y’know how the Living Tribunal was regarded as the most powerful being next to TOAA?
        Well he proved that when the Infinity Gauntlet, the very weapon that killed half of the universe’s existing life with a finger snap and bested every powerhouse in Marvel with a FRACTION of its full power, was child’s play for him to deal with. Anyone who has proven capable of besting the kind of power the Gauntlet possesses is completely overpowered.
        What’s more, it was in possession of Adam Warlock, one of its most experienced users of said weapon.

        Okay, you’re going to have to stop with this worship of Superman.
        Not only is he not that strong, but he has weaknesses that can easily be exploited by the cosmic entities
        Kryptonite
        Red sun radiation
        Powerful magic
        High sound frequencies
        Vulnerability to chi
        Lead reinforcements
        Psychic powers
        There are probably even more weaknesses he has other than these.
        Are you even aware of the fact that Superman has died more frequently than almost every fictional character ever conceived?

        You seem awfully dedicated to TOAA…
        Also, the fact that you regard Bass (a being whose greatest feat in your book is destroying and island and SHAKING one of the smallest planets in our solar system at full power) as the strongest character shows you are as biased as they come.
        This is one if the most typical set-ups on the internet.
        You choose you favorite character, make him your avatar icon, dedicate numerous obscure pages to them, and suggest they are the strongest character of all time without giving the people any evidence that verifies that.
        You think you’re the only person who does this?
        The only thing that sets them apart from you is the fact that their reasoning for believing them to have such power is more rational.
        At some points, I just sit back and mark off my metaphorical list of what you’ll type up next.
        Either way, it doesn’t matter.
        Bass would get destroyed by most of the powerhouses on my list. You’re inability to accept this truth won’t change that.
        Now, you are allowed to like Bass. You can have a favorite character. You have the free will to decided who you like.
        But, Bass isn’t as powerful as you think he is.

        Well, not believing in something does not make it magically go away. The writers are allowed to make overpowered characters, and for those overpowered characters, they make even more overpowered characters.
        Then they make God…so…there’s that….
        Either way, it doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in those powers, because they are still accepted over the globe by some of the most respectable individuals I have come to know.
        Like I’ve said in the past, you don’t believe in them because you know that any one of these attacks could end a fight in mere seconds. With how heroes have evolved they need to boost the power scale tremendously to the point where one gesture is enough to kill all life.
        You may reject the idea…but it will change nothing.
        It can happen and you not find it logical does not make it any less acceptable.

        So reject it.
        Reject it all you won’t.
        It changes nothing…
        The mark has been made and denying it will only show how stubborn you are.
        There ARE characters who can kill foes with nothing more than a gesture. You rejecting the idea won’t make it go away.
        The world is not run by your rules.
        The fictional world is not run by your rules.
        You need to learn to accept that.

        Also, your Sub Reddit…
        They only hype I see is the hype YOU give to yourself by adding positive comments as if you are multiple people. You even act like you’re conversing with yourself.
        I think you might suffer from narcissistic personality disorder…It’s a real condition (look it up).
        Is it a joke?
        I hope it’s a joke.
        It better be a joke…
        I hope all of this is a joke….

        @lokithemaster
        The capitalization is very appropriate.
        This has escalated beyond balderdash into utter silliness.

        *Sigh*

        What am I doing here?

        I am sitting at my laptop debating on one of the most obscure sites on the internet.

        Is my existence really that insignificant?

        Do you guys ever just look up at ceiling and think about how small you are compared to Earth’s population, then realize you are also anonymous on one of the smallest planets in solar system and then look at how the system is not even in the center of a galaxy septillions of kilometers in diameter, which also has billions of stars with planets filled with creatures that are probably better than us, yet the galaxy itself is not even one of the larger ones in an infinitely expanding universe filled with billions of celestial bodies that are larger and are also probably more advanced, while also knowing that millions innocent lives will be killed five billion years from now when our comparatively generic star collapses on its own mass, assuming man can even survive for that long?

        No…

        Okay…

      • That’s fair. I try not to believe stuff without proof either. As you mentioned, you’d probably find a way to defend Eternity anyway. It’s not courage to fight for your own survival when there is no other option left. It’s just something that you do.

        Lol at the whole Dr. Doom thing. He wouldn’t be able to get nearly as strong as Goku even if he had decades. Goku would notice if any of his ki was leaving and just power up. Dr Doom would be obliterated in an instance. Goku would say “Get on My Level” before leaving and Dr. Doom would have a mid life crisis. You just can’t fight a Saiyan and hope to live with your honor in tact.

        Now it’s my turn to ask for the proof on Bass. He never lets his disdain for mankind get in the way at all. Bass is actually very composed and always plans things through. He wants a good fight, but comes across as a nice guy most of the time. He even saved Megaman from a virus in the future and saved the universe from Nebula Grey. I’ll take his heroics over a cosmic guy’s any day of the week. The cosmic guys are always trying to cause harm to the universe. Here’s a good example

        Spectre’s just being a jerk as per usual. He could have saved Supergirl already, but he’s testing Superman for no reason. The other cosmic entities also get on their high horse quite often as they go to meetings and claim that they’re above good and evil. It’s just Fake News. They just like to rule over others and get a tough lesson at the school of hard knocks whenever a real villain appears.

        Superman’s awesome though. He’s beaten more opponents than I can count and I can count reasonably high. He may have a lot of weaknesses, but Superman hits as hard as he can and that gets the job done. The cosmic guys are good, Superman’s better. Superman doesn’t play games and typically ends up humiliating everyone. His overconfidence and endless bragging are part of what makes him such an endearing character and the best in all of comics. He just happens to be the strongest as well.

        I am a TOAA fan, but a bigger Bass fan. Bass has feats upon feats. Remember that he is massively FTL and could eat a Sandwich in the time it would take me to run to the deli. We’re talking an Italian Hero here. Bass also got way stronger with each form to the point where his power is basically limitless. I know there are a lot of people who pick their own character as the best, but I don’t agree with them. Bass is the strongest. He’s my favorite character, but that’s not why he’s the strongest, it’s pure coincidence. Bass has the Dark Arm Blade and Earthbreaker at his disposal. Good luck getting past all of those techniques! Also, The Get Ability is basically an “I win” button so you have to consider that as well.

        These cosmic beings underestimate will power and survival skills. You can’t just wish Superman away, it doesn’t work like that despite what the writers will have you think. Characters have enough defense and core competencies to protect themselves from any such assault. If you want to win a fight, ultimately it has to be done physically. That’s the way I see it. Can you go to Papa Johns and ask them to telepathically give you a pizza? You can’t. I mean, you could ask, but they couldn’t do it. Same with people like the Living Tribunal. He can try to beam someone away, but it won’t work. He has to go for the haymakers and laser blasts to try and win the fight.

        My Sub Reddit is hype! Sure, it’s mostly just me, but that’s fine until it really blows up. As I said in one of the topics, you want to post now to beat the crowd. I don’t have any narcissistic traits, I’m just amazing. Look, I’ve been around the block a few times and you just pick up on some things along the way. I heard that some people got their own sub reddits so I decided to make one of my own. It actually ended up being a great success! My site is also pretty popular by the way. I get at least a dozen new views every day and they each make me smile. I know that fame is fleeting, but the blog is something that won’t be forgotten in many years.

        I’ve never thought that to be honest. I have thought about how I could have won the Smash Bros national I entered though if I had just rolled out of the way of the last attack. It still keeps me up on some nights.

      • i’m just going to shoot something out. i agree with Archangel.

        you are a narcissist. you think highly of yourself, you can’t admit when you’re wrong, you think of yourself as “the golden child”, you never blame yourself for things you did.

        “The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and he likes to present “proof” that he is correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and he is expert at diverting the blame to others – (“It’s not my fault. I lost that promotion because my team let me down”, “You were acting so stupid-you made me hit you.”, “If you weren’t so cold, I wouldn’t have had that affair”). A narcissist will never admit even horrendous mistakes and when confronted, he will deflect, delay and tell more lies. He believes he is invincible and perfect.
        When we look deeply into ourselves and know we have been wrong, we are able to say “I make mistakes”. We apologize to the hurt party and continue to have a healthy, solid sense of ourselves as positive human beings. A narcissist is unable to do this as that would require acknowledging that he is not perfect.”

        credit: http://thenarcissisticlife.com/the-narcissist-is-never-wrong/

        you think that what you think is right, you think you can do no wrong.

        symptoms:
        Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
        Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
        Exaggerating your achievements and talents
        Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
        Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
        Requiring constant admiration
        Having a sense of entitlement
        Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
        Taking advantage of others to get what you want
        Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
        Being envious of others and believing others envy you
        Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

        you may not see it, you will deny it, but you most likely have Narcissistic personality disorder. please Dreager, please go to the doctor and get some Psychotherapy. narcissistic behavior can lead to depression from rejection. and i don’t want that.

      • Rejection? Good thing I plan to stay single forever so I won’t take the risk. No worries, I know that I can be wrong once in a while. It’s hard to believe right? But if does happen in occasion

      • we’ll see how long that lasts. eventually you’re going to find someone in one of your school classes, you will find her beautiful. then near the end of the school year you will gather up the courage to talk to her, maybe get her contact info, then something will happen, and it will stop you from talking to her. then you find out she is moving to a different town and you may never see her again.
        then you will do everything in your power to get her email, but it won’t be enough. then she moves. and then you know. you may never see her again. then it becomes one of your biggest regrets.

        then it happens again, and again, and again. then you meet the one. she is perfect. she makes you feel something in your cold, dead, non feeling, heart. you know you can’t live without her contact info. but it happens again. you lose her.
        and then that is your biggest regret. and you spend the next week or two planing on how to find her. then you accept defeat. and you hate yourself. and you contemplate suicide. and now you feel nothing. nothing but pain and regret. then someone else makes you feel something. and you are longing for that happy feeling. just a bit of it. anything. it’s a vicious cycle.

      • It’s too late for that. I graduate school in a few days and then I’m never looking back. I’ve always wanted to be #ForeverAlone when it comes to romance because it goes against the mass media approach. Hollywood wants you to find someone, but I think you can be happy without getting into all of that. I hope you’re not talking from personal experience though.

      • like i said let’s see how long that lasts.

        and i am talking from experience.

      • And in that scan, Spectre calls the Presence the TOAA. Also, due to the concept of omnipotence, the Omni Creator is the only one and true omnipotent.

      • Hav you even put all the clues together? The appearance of being an old man like TOAA, being all of creation like Man of Miracles, rarely appearing also like TOAA, bringing people back to life like TOAA, being referred to as mightier than everything combined, having the omnipotence power, all of that is pretty obvious.

      • Nah, it’s just DC successfully one upping Marvel as per usual. They love to use similar characters like Superman and Thor or Batman and Captain America, but DC usually wins.

      • Dude, think omnipotence. If they all(Omnipotent Beings) fought, they wouldn’t be able to kill each other since their all powerful. But that contradicts the omnipotence power. They would have to logically be the same being, because many of them have been stated to be all of creation. IMO, I believe that there is only one real supreme being in all of fiction, and that supreme is the Omni Creator. It’s just like God, there can only be one god because having more would contradict the “Supreme Being Status.”

      • Logic doesn’t always apply in fiction. The writers like to eliminate it and substitute their own. Keep in mind that the different franchises have nothing to do with each other so it doesn’t violate the concept

  25. dreager, i am asking you to stop and just admit goku would get wiped out of existence by TOAA. there is no logical way to deny it.

    ignore that last one. i forgot to log out of WordPress

      • thanks for that.

        read this, and look back at what i said.

        When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

      • The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth. but lets get started.

        can goku beat someone who is unbeatable? no. the answer is no.
        The One-Above-All is Omnipotent (All Powerful), Omniscient (All Knowing), and Omnipresent (Everywhere). He is the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse. He exists beyond space and time. His power is unlimited, incalculable and immeasurable, he cannot be damaged in any way and he has control over all forms. there is no way to beat him. goku has to obey the laws of physics TOAA does not.

      • Based on the title those rules sound pretty bad.

        Nobody is unbeatable though so it’s a moot point. Only Bass is basically at that level…and we’ve been through that before. TOAA can fly and he’s old..but what else does he have going for him?

      • they are not that bad. take a look

        that’s a contradiction. and TOAA is Omnipotent, all-powerful, etc.

      • Sorry, but on principle I had to delete the link. You definitely won’t catch me visiting a site with that title. As for TOAA, he claims to be all powerful but we have no proof. He could just be an old man with flight.

      • but he has proof, like when he remade the entire multiverse.

        and scene you won’t go to the site here they are

        Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

        Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they
        want to hear them.

        When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

        If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

        Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

        Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

        Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

        Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

        Do not harm little children.

        Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

        When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

      • But making isn’t the same as destroying tho. Trust me, the feat is just not as impressive, not by a longshot.

        Well, interesting rules. I have one of my own. When going to a pizza store, always order a cheese slice

    • An old man with flight? AHAHAHHAAAHAAHAHHA!!!!! Using the most popular form again, that’s a NLF in debates. Using the strongest form is the main factor. Restoring/Recreating a universe= Universe destruction if vice versa.

      • I seem to keep reverting to that form. Still those are basically his best feats. We can’t say that he can destroy a universe just because he created one. At the moment, it does seem like flying is his best bet and that’s not so good.

  26. With Doom’s intellect, he’ll find a way. He has been shown to have the knowledge to adapt to powers he obtains and use the quite efficiently.

    Goku would be oblivious to this similarly to how unaware he was to Android 19 as he/she/it was draining his power. He only realized this when his friends warned him.

    If its one thing I know about Goku, it’s the fact that fooling him isn’t that hard. Now he’s facing off against one of the greatest minds evolution has to offer.
    He’ll know nothing of Doom’s ulterior motives and will let his guard down the same way he did with Vegeta. Like I said, by desiring to understand Goku’s biology for “scientific purposes”, he will bring him into a false sense of security while pandering to his ego. He will then cater him to the best feast Latveria royalty can buy, which very well may also leave the saiyan lethargic. Doom will then fool him into laying on his “scanner” to siphon Goku’s ki while he waits for the “results”.
    By the time Goku does see the difference; Doom will have already obtained a huge portion of Goku’s power to enhance his strength, speed, and durability. He’ll then use a basic ki blast to dispatch Goku.
    If you know anything about Doom, you’d know that against enemies who surpass him in strength, he uses his mind to find a way to best them instead of his fists. He won’t fight Goku. He’ll use his pride and appetite against him without throwing a punch.
    Doom is not some boneheaded brute.

    Also, Goku would not say that.
    He is more of a samurai instead of a barbarian.
    He fights with honor in the heat of the moment.

    Really?
    It seems like rage is the only thing that helps Bass feel empowered even when the moment shouldn’t call for it. He’s killed innocent lives when having more concern with his obsession with besting Megaman.
    And, no.
    He didn’t save the universe from Nebula Grey
    He saved the Cyber World and Earth.
    In addition to that, Bass couldn’t do it alone.
    Bass Cross Megaman bested N. Grey. It was the power of both Megaman and Bass that beat N. Grey. Bass already showed that he wouldn’t stand a chance against N. Grey in a one on one battle. In his one on one battle, where Megaman was not a part of it at the time, he was overpowered even when using his strongest moves.
    Even at full power, through the use of his Beast Out technique, Bass still wasn’t strong enough to battle Cyber Beast.
    All of his “heroics” have been selfish deeds he’s carried out for his sake and his sake alone. Usually, he doesn’t even make a plan or anticipate the power of his next foe, thus leaving him unprepared and destined for defeat due to his arrogance. He just foolishly jumps head first into a wall without preparing himself.

    The cosmic entities on the other hand actually have a purpose: protect existence.
    They understand that in the face of great threats, the greater good must be taken into full consideration.
    They know that when septillions of innocent lives are on the line and a handful of dangerous individuals are responsible for it, they’ll remove said individuals to save the countless beings who don’t deserve it.
    They know the infinite scope of the Multiverse and know that ONE universe alone is nothing more than a minute spec.
    If you understood infinity, EVERYTHING else would seem so small to you. Even I see how small we are and I’m just considering our one universe’s scale alone
    You may not see this because the most knowledge you have on cosmic entities comes from the search results on Google. But I have experienced their deeds for myself in comics you probably haven’t even heard of.
    I’ve grown up with them.
    I know what they’re really like.
    That reason alone leaves me inclined to believe you are wrong in your assumptions.
    Let’s not forget that you got a 14% on a test issued by a person who can’t even be classified as a comic book veteran.

    Also, Spectre could have easily stopped Supergirl.
    He just saw no need to address a problem that could easily be corrected regardless of how far she went. As shown in that issue, he is fast enough to catch up with her.
    Superman just wouldn’t stay out of his way. As Superman stated, he intended on ensuring Spectre wouldn’t intervene even when he was only trying to ease the situation. Regardless of whether or not Spectre was going to teleport to Supergirl or not, Superman was still going to interrupt his business.
    Even so, Spectre wanted to end this transaction WITHOUT fighting. Superman just wasn’t civilized enough to agree to a rational compromise. Keep in mind that Superman was the one who relentlessly attacked Spectre first instead of listening to him.
    Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the writers orchestrated that fight to show just how outclassed Superman is against the Spectre?

    In all honesty, the list of villains Superman has bested by himself is not that long. Nor is Goku’s. Their greatest victories have been done with an army of friendship on their side. Their strength in numbers is their greatest asset.
    Of course, you are free to list the people Superman has beaten on his own, while I can list the numerous characters he has died to.
    I have a feeling my list is longer.
    I honestly don’t see why Superman is the strongest comic character when there are characters, both cosmic and otherwise, that have either bested Superman or have proven that they can do more than him. With all his defeats, deaths, and weaknesses, he should be classified as the characters in the grey area between strong and weak. That seems like a more consistent status for the “Man of Steel”.

    It took Bass’ Get Ability SIX VOLUME ISSUES in order to raise him from an island level threat to a small planetary threat.
    Do you know how many comic book issues are between that amount of time?

    That’s a very long time just to get enough energy to destroy a planet. His Get Ability needs to be faster than that.
    Doom gained enough power to destroy the solar system in a day.
    If Bass’ Get Ability can only adapt by such small quantities, I can see it being overwhelmed by any solar level entity. He needs to step up his game if he wants to fight with the big boys.

    Will power does not actually protect against that kind of power.
    You’re still basing everything on YOUR rules.
    You need to understand that will power CANNOT protect against being erased from existence or having your power siphoned from your body.
    Even if it could, Bass didn’t have the will to stay fused with Megaman.
    If he can’t secure his physical form for another Navi, a mere finger snap is a guaranteed Game Over.

    “If you want to win a fight, ultimately it has to be done physically. That’s the way I see it.”
    Then you obviously lack the open mind to see a foe can be powerful without having brute strength. The fictional realm is not run by your rules. You have no power over it and you cannot make up your own rules and expect them to be taken seriously, especially when they make less sense than the rules the true artists have established.
    Your rejection of the idea will not change its prevalence.

    Like I’ve said numerous times, you and your blog are based on your own fictional rules instead of the ones that have been around before you were even born. You don’t have the right to edit character powers, especially when you have no proof to make your claims more plausible.
    But if you want to make up rules for the sake of editing stories to agree with your opinion only, then two can play at that game.

    It doesn’t count as “blowing up” when you’re the only person who’s decided to pay any mind to it. The only REAL people who did decide to comment didn’t exactly leave very positive thoughts. One of them felt just as sorry for you as I do.

    I don’t hate you Dreager1.
    I don’t HATE anybody…
    I just hate how you’re so unaware of your actions.
    I mean, you’re supposed to be a catholic, yet you are breaking one of God’s beatitudes and submitting yourself to one of the Seven Capital Vices.
    Are you even aware of how damaging that is for you?

    Well, I guess my perception of the big picture spans farther than your’s.

    • Goku would have figured it out with 19. He’s one of the greatest tacticians when in combat. As for good ole Dr Doom, he still wouldn’t be able to do it. Power on this scale is far too great for him. I think you are heavily overestimating Dr Doom here and underestimating Goku’s brilliance.

      As for Bass, he saved the multiverse. Lets face it, Nebula Grey would have destroyed everything eventually. Bass was also beating him 1 on 1 but the guy got a cheap shot which ended the fight. Bass would have been okay with the Get Ability program anyway. As for the whole rage thing, Bass uses rage, but he harnesses it. It doesn’t take control of him. The cosmic guys are the ones to watch. They’re always panicking and succumbing to the dark side. They don’t have the same level of grit as Bass.

      No, Spectre was just being a jerk there. He could have said something right off the bat. I would have acted the same way as Superman there. Lets face it, Superman’s just a nice guy. He could have flattened Spectre, but decided not to do so and held back a little too much.

      Superman’s list of wins would be longer. Here, I’ll start. Flash, Joker, Batman, Wonder Woman, Thugs from ep 1, Thugs from ep 2, Robot 1, Robot 2, etc.

      Also, the 6 volumes counts a lot of subplots. Bass is one of the strongest if not The strongest being in all of media. His Get Ability confirms this. There’s just no way to stop him and the “big boys” will have to try to keep up with him. They don’t have the skills for that though.

      Will power can shut down all cheesy abilities. Trust me, that’s just how it works. You have to win physically because mental abilities are all show and no substance. They can’t actually do anything that you don’t want them to do. That’s just how will power works.

      Here’s where I think the problem is. You seem to have comic book heroes at a really high level where you think they can take out anime fighters while I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum.

      Glad to hear it. I don’t hate anybody either. The internet is pretty fun. I’m not catholic though, I’m a Christian. Not all Christians are Catholic and vice versa. I don’t use the Pope as a go between for repenting and go straight to God. There are other nuances that differentiate the two. I follow the 10 Commandments and live life to the fullest. It’s a good and healthy lifestyle.

      My perception is always the biggest though.

      • Pffff…I’m sorry…but…brilliant is one word you can’t use to describe Goku in a contest wits, especially if Doom is the one he needs to outsmart.

        He didn’t notice his power getting absorbed, which therefore shows that he can’t.
        Instead of giving Goku so many handicaps and excuses, try being honest for a change.
        Goku’s track record of getting tricked proves this. He always lets his guard down no matter how big or small the threat.
        Vegeta, Ginyu, Frieza (twice), and Cell have all been a case where has either let his high and mighty attitude cost him his life as well as the lives of those around him. What kind of protector is so reckless? (I’m hoping Akira Toriyama will do more with Goku’s character by giving him more development as the story unfolds.)
        You can’t deny the fact that someone as smart as Doom could trick Goku with even greater ease.
        Doom’s mind easily surpasses Goku’s. He’s had experience from philosophers, scientists, masters in combat, and overpowered beings both godly or otherwise throughout his entire life and suffered numerous trials and tribulations that would leave Goku screaming in agony if he were in Doom’s position. He’s actually had greater experience with beings on a multiversal scale and even used this knowledge to become a god several times.
        He’s street smart, combat smart, knowledge smart, and power smart to the an extent that easily surpasses Goku’s comprehension.
        That alone gives him the capacity to store Goku’s power and learn how to use it.
        I’ve spent time with Doctor Doom.
        Time that spans to comics you’ve probably never heard of.
        Doctor Voodoo
        Triumph and Torment
        Doomwar
        The Book of Doom
        The Masters of Evil
        Unthinkable
        (These are just a few I can name off the top of my head)
        I’ve actually EXPERIENCED the story of Doom in a manner you may never know.
        So I think I have a greater idea of his skill than you.

        Do you even know what the structure of a multiverse is?
        I’m convinced that you don’t.
        What cheap shot did N. Grey utilize?
        If he did get a cheap shot, why didn’t Bass still stop him?
        Are you still referencing the whole “Megaman distracting Bass thing”.
        If so there are two things you need to consider.
        1. Bass already had a shot at fighting N. Grey at full power without any obstruction and failed.
        2. Even if Megaman did distract him, the blame is still on Bass for letting his obsession with Megaman get in his way again.

        There you go again making these false accusations without giving any proof of them.
        Panicking and succumbing to the dark side?
        When?
        When have they done that?
        Even if they have, Bass has always been on the dark side. He always lets his anger take control. He loses his ability to rationally assess a situation (that is, if he had any rationality in the first place) and inevitably fails because of his inability to address his mistakes and fix them.
        Even after his failures, Bass never seems to have any further development that strengthens him as a character and as a fighter.

        Spectre wanted to help and Superman would not let him.
        It is clearly established in the comic.
        He was talking to Supes and tried to rationalize with him in the midst of the chaos.
        Instead of listening to what he had to say, Superman just tried to fight him (to no avail).
        Superman should have listened to Spectre instead of challenging him when he was merely warning him of the impending consequences.
        Superman is the one at fault here.
        Also, you have no proof of Superman holding back in that scenario.
        If anything, that instance shows one of the many scenarios where Superman was trying his hardest.
        If you are honestly trying to add unearned street cred with the overused excuse of characters “holding back” when they clearly were not and were given no future indication of this, then I fail to see anyone taking you seriously from this moment forward.

        First of all, beating mere cronies is not very impressive, especially if two of them are human thugs.
        Second, those characters you listed also proved their ability to defeat Superman. They’re stronger, faster, and smarter than they were the last time they faced off against Superman.
        Flash even proved that he was holding back his speed by beating Superman in another race.
        Wonder Woman broke Kal’s arm in a gladiator battle.
        Batman stockpiled tons of kryptonite and is ready to use it whenever the time calls for it.
        And…beating Joker in his human form is impressive… because?
        Third, here’s my list:

        1. Emperor Joker (rips out Kal’s heart with 99% of Mxyzptlk’s powers)
        2. Doomsday (beaten to death)
        3. He-Man (stabbed to death)
        4. Time-Trapper (aged to death)
        5. Lex Luthor (Kryptonite)
        6. Zunial (Kryptonite radio waves)
        7. Gog (killed him on every day throughout time)
        8. Batman (we all know how)

        These are just characters that have KILLED Superman.
        The list of characters who have beaten him in a one on one fight is much longer.

        That’s still a long time in order to get from island to planetary. Even needing to go through two volume issues is too long for the power you explained. Having a skill that adapts at such a slow pace might as well not be a skill at all.
        The fact that he needs to power up at all shows he has some flaws in his strength.
        Again, you still haven’t provided anything that proves base is the strongest. You haven’t shown me any accomplishments that offer him a greater status.

        No it’s not.
        Will power does not work like that and you have nothing to prove it does.
        Again, willpower being the able to block against this kind of power is a part your head canon rule book. That does not make it true if its all apart of your imaginary fictional omniverse.
        It can’t do that.
        One person disagreeing with an undeniable truth will make no real difference.
        If it doesn’t make sense to you when it is clearly sensible from the viewpoint of thousands of other veterans, you are the one at fault here.

        Your side of the spectrum has no basis when logic is on the opposing side.

        Regardless of whether or not you are a catholic or a christian does not change the point I am making. The Beatitudes still pertain to your standing point and the Seven Capital Vices should still be expended from your persona.

        No it’s not.

      • Dude, what even are the 7 Capital Vices? Is that similar to the 7 Deadly Sins?

        That’s just how willpower works. Just watch the end of Arc 1 for Sword Art Online and you’ll see how it can even negate death. It’s a perfect counter to everything. Bass’ Get Ability works instantly, he just needs to fight someone at that level and he will copy them. It’s like saying that I only leveled up to eating 6 slices in one day in 2 years because that’s when I tried it, but I could have done it in a day.

        I could name a bunch of people too, but the list really would go on forever. Lets face it, Superman outpowers and outspeeds the rest of the comic book characters. That’s why I consider him to be the strongest, his skills are just on a whole different level. And no, the Spectre was just being mean. He should have led off with “Wait Mr Superman. I can save Supergirl” and then he would just need to save her immediately. Instead he played it off as a “Supergirl must die” angle. You have to admit that Superman was in the right here. He held back because he’s still a hero and always keeps his rage in check.

        Goku’s very smart. Remember when he figured out that Gold Frieza takes up a lot of energy? That was all intuition and guts. The others wouldn’t have been able to do that. Dr Doom is smart, but he’s extremely weak. It would take ages to get to a level even close to that of Goku’s and he doesn’t have that time. Goku could sense if his energy was leaving and would react appropriately. I know quite a bit about Doom as well if I do say so myself and he’s just not ready to face off against someone like Goku. Lets start with Iron-Man and move up from there.

        Bass is the strongest and he’s an awesome character. He’s had a lot of development over the years like when he was betrayed and then sought to destroy everything. He’s really cool and has the skills to back it up

      • *Sigh*…Yes they are more colloquially known as the seven deadly sins, but I am referring to them with the more accurate terminology.

        First of all, last time I checked, Sword Art Online takes place in a virtual video game reality.
        Second of all, I highly doubt willpower was the result of death negation. More than likely, it was skill utilized that protects ts user from suffering defeat.
        Third, you still have yet to provide any solid evidence that a person can resist the insta-kill powers established prior. Am I only meant to believe it can be achieved by Goku because your imaginary rule book says it?
        Fourth, Bass’ Get Ability is not as fully adaptive as you make it out to be. Like most adaptive powers I’ve learned of, there’s only so much he can adapt to before the haste of his ability fails to keep up with the damage output or until his body suffers altogether. After reading the manga series and gaining as much info on Bass.exe as I could, his failures are either due to his Get Ability not being able keep up opponent or his lack of skill being the result of utilizing it to greater degree. It’s failed before, and I can see it failing again.

        Superman is not the strongest.
        I don’t see how you believe he is when anyone with strong magic, high-pitched sonar abilities, chi, and psychic powers can damage him.
        Though he is a valuable asset to the Justice League, defeating him is not a very difficult task from a viewpoint that delves deeper, especially with the amount of heroes, villain, and neutral individuals that either have powers that make use of his MANY weaknesses or have raw power that easily eclipses his.
        With the dimensional barriers being broken by Superman’s speed, the last thing Spectre wanted was for Superman to be blazing through reality to save ONE mortal who was never in any real danger on his watch. The key issue was Superman relentlessly breaking through reality and having no concern for the potential damage he could’ve caused. Spectre then needed to intervene as the universes protector in order to stop Superman from causing any more problems. With other lives on the line, two kryptonians are a a small price to pay.
        Unfortunately, Supes let his fury get the best of him and punched Sprectre with everything he had, thus provoking the Spirit of Vengeance to retaliate.
        This is why many of the cosmic beings of this continuity have more leveled heads. Regardless of who is in danger, they know that one or two lives pale in comparison to billions that are being endangered. Superman on the other hand was too concerned with getting his cousin to care about what the Sprectre is sworn to protect.
        Now I don’t see how Superman was holding back in any way there. Once again, you’re making claims that have no proof to offer support. Therefore, I have no reason to believe you.

        First of all, Goku only knew of this from experiencing the stamina cost with his other transformations. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have figured it out.
        Second, if that’s the ONLY instance you have that represents ANY ounce of intelligence Goku has, you have failed to convince me when facts point to Goku being easily fooled.
        He gave Frieza the energy he needed to survive.
        He let Ginyu swap bodies with him without realizing it (that is, until it was too late).
        He tapped out of the Cell games and refused to replenish his energy to finish Cell off.
        He voluntarily let Vegeta jape him and render him unconscious.
        He lowered his energy to the point of getting punctured by a laser.
        He’s been fooled on several occasions in the only field he specializes in: fighting.
        If he can be japed in fighting, the only thing he has any skill in whatsoever, then a contest of true wits would be a cake walk for his opponent.
        Doom is his intellectual superior.
        He’s even mastered forms of combat during his travels and ,mastered pressure point strikes.
        Goku only has the power advantage.
        However, Doom has the knowledge, combat, willpower, and intelligence that would give him the opportunity to steal Goku’s power for himself.

        Remember, similarly to the power cosmic, ki enhances one’s durability depending on how much energy is at their disposal. Doom’s will and comprehension has shown that enhancing his durability with newly acquired power is not very difficult for him. If he merely decides to siphon the energy into his armor. the simplicity level will be much higher.

        Like I said, Goku has proven to lack the intuition to notice his energy being taken away from him. He didn’t even realize hos body was being stolen until AFTER it was stolen.

        Look, I’ll admit that Goku has greater footing when he’s actually fighting against another muscle head. However, when going up against Doom, fighting is not the key. Doom would not fight Goku. He’s never directly fought against any foes that eclipse his power. He would trick Goku into falling into a trap; one involving food, a scientific fascination towards his power, and boasts that would draw away suspicion of any ulterior motives.
        As established, fooling Goku isn’t really much of a challenge, especially when you’re a mastermind on Doom’s.
        Though you may find physical power as an advantage EVERY time, genius on Doom’s level is sure to reward him with a victory.
        With Doom, its not a contest of strength or speed.
        It’s a contest of wits, and that’s something Goku has always lacked.
        It doesn’t matter of Doom is stronger or weaker than Goku physically. He’s stronger in combative experience, intellect, tactical analyzing (to the point of being able to jape and kill a ferocious lion in one hit without any armor or magic), and maturity due to living his live with limitations as a HUMAN rather than a superpowered extraterrestrial warrior.
        Knowledge is true power.

        I haven’t seen any significant character development for Bass that bring him out of the Vegeta/Shadow the Hedgehog stage. He’s still shown to have cynical tendencies towards humans and even his fellow Net-Navis.

        Once again, what has Bass done that leaves him as the strongest? I haven’t found anything that even remotely reveals anything surpassing feats any; and I do mean ANY character could pull of with a tiny finger blast.
        Shaking a planet?: Child’s play
        Destroying an island?: Rudimentary
        Mach speed?: Wouldn’t even break a sweat.
        Light speed?: On his level, it’s not that hard to keep up.
        Blasting a black hole?: Scientifically, it can be achieved by other powerhouses given the chance (If you could provide the scan of him destroying this “black hole” we can assess its impressiveness).
        Can you name any feat, regarding either destructive power against the environment or willpower that is greater than something that can be accomplished by other forces?

      • I’m definitely more used to this version. They even got a manga series.

        Whether virtual or not, Kirito surpassed the rules of reality with his awesomeness and then saved the day. It was amazing and showed that will power is the greatest.

        Bass dislikes humans. That hasn’t changed, but he went from being an incredibly awesome fighter who doesn’t talk much to a very confident fighter who still beats people up. I like how he’s grown more accustomed to mocking his opponents and landing the final hit.

        Bass broke the black hole, not just blasted it.

        http://www.mangahere.co/manga/megaman_nt_warrior/v11/c003/15.html

        Don’t forget that Bass actually moved so fast that the cameras couldn’t keep up with him in an earlier volume as well. Bass’ best feat is taking down Hubstyle Megaman. It was amazing and from there I knew that Bass was virtually indestructible. Seriously, how can you defeat Megaman in a fair 1 vs 1 battle like that? It’s just unheard of. Mix that in with his limitless speed and Get Ability and it’s game over.

        No, this is why Spectre’s a jerk. The life of one Kryptonian is certainly worth more than the possibility of endangering people by breaking reality. Chasing after Supergirl was the right move by Superman and if Spectre hadn’t jumped in front, Superman was about to save her. He should have immediately teleported Supergirl back if he didn’t want to fight Superman. That’s why Superman is heroic while Spectre gets clouded by trying to sacrifice the few to save the many. Superman had the situation well under control. He was holding back because Superman doesn’t murder anyone no matter the circumstance. If he ever went all out, it’d be game over.

        The Cell and Frieza examples don’t make sense. Goku wasn’t fooled, he just wanted a good match. You’re mistaking Goku’s kind nature for not being very smart. Goku’s a mastermind and the series consistently proves this. Remember how he tried to scare Android 19 by powering up? He still ended up fighting even though the guy saw through his bluff. That’s why Goku’s a real hero. He never backs down. Dr Doom has too many limitations physically. He just can never get to Goku’s level no matter how much he builds.

      • ….

        *Clears throat*…

        First of all, that’s not Bass…
        That’s Bass CROSS Megaman
        The combination of Bass AND Megaman.
        That was not Bass’ power alone and he therefore could not achieve it on his own.

        Second, that is not a black hole.
        I don’t how you perceived THAT as a black hole.
        It looks nothing like a black hole.
        Where’s the singularity?
        WHERE’S THE EVENT HORIZON?
        Where was it even stated that it was a black hole?

        Third, I fail to see who the characterization you described makes him better.
        The strong silent type is usually more cherished than the brash, antagonistic megalomaniac.
        If anything, the latter is often despised encourages those to desire his downfall.
        If that’s all the character development that he has had, I’d much rather deal with him prior to the development. At least there, he’s more endearing.

        Fourth, from what I saw, the Camera was keeping up just fine. Light speed really isn’t much of a challenge anymore BTW.

        Fifth, Hub Style Megaman is still significantly weaker than you realize as well. Though he does have power that is on par with the likes of Cell at full power (by that, I mean he is solar level) and, at maximum capacity, has power capable of striking and withstanding the force of a collapsing macrocosm, that’s the full extent of his capabilities as of now (this includes Bass as well).

        With that out of the way, Kirito surpassed the rules of VIRTUAL reality. Which is something gamers can achieve any day of the week with spawn points, cheat codes, and what not (I don’t know what gamers are all about nowadays).
        So really, Kirito didn’t really surpass death. Rather, he merely surpassed the game, which is expected, seen as how that is the goal of any game.

        Okay, hold on!
        Let me get one thing straight…
        There were billions (BILLIONS mind you) of lives being threatened at the time and you fault Specrte for trying to save them?

        What?!?

        Think of the families and the innocent lives undeserving of any harm whatsoever.
        Think of the alien races seeking knowledge instead of war.
        Think of the people Superman swore to protect!
        Sacrificing one for the many is called fighting for the GREATER GOOD.
        It’s the will of a hero to put aside selfish needs to save as many souls as possible. There have been instances where heroes, including Superman, realized that saving one is not worth the price of the many. Even Doom knows this.
        Two lives are small price to pay if the universe is at stake.
        You may be able to live with killing thousands for one life, but I’ve matured to the point of realizing sentimentality should not be considered in the affairs of life and death on such a huge scale. My guardians taught me better than that.

        Also, Superman has killed people in his animated form and his comic book form. There are even universe that show Superman’s capacity to become a force of evil.

        The series has proven that Goku has a tendency to let his guard down. When Trunks came from the future to warn Goku of an impending threat as well as a heart virus that would kill him. He even gave him MEDICINE from the FUTURE to make sure he is shape to fight.
        But, nooooooooooooooooo!
        Goku decided NOT to take the medicine and lost a battle even after becoming a super saiyan. If Goku was more careful, he would’ve beaten 19 and might have even had the chance to become an ascended super saiyan before his son with the additional time. Once again, Goku’s pride and naive nature led him down a painful path.

        Regardless of whether or not Goku was fooled, he still voluntarily traps himself into corners. Frieza did jape him into lowering his power to the point of allowing a laser to penetrate his chest (which could have been due to it being more advanced based on the Frieza Force’s leap in technology and the status of Sorbet’s position).
        He also did let Vegeta render him unconscious after already seeing the devastation he left behind.

        Like I said, Doom would not waste his time getting himself beaten by those who surpass his power. His mind has shown to be a greater asset that physical power. Like the Beyonder, he wouldn’t jump in there like fool and try fighting Goku.
        A battle between a powerhouse and Doctor Doom is not a battle to see who is physically stronger than whom. Rather, it is a battle to see who smarter than whom.
        Regardless of the universe, time, or place, Doom would outsmart Goku.
        In all seriousness, Goku is not particularly smart.

        Plus, Doom has a time machine, which he has used to discover the outcome of his actions in the future. He doesn’t use it as often due to it not being readily available and being placed in instances where time travel is not needed.
        Then again, he could’ve made use of the time platform prior to many of his battles.
        Other times, when he supposedly “dies”, it inevitably turns out to be a doombot analyzing the battles taking place.
        Instead of believing fighting is the answer to everything, you should step away from anime to look at the slices of life more down-to-Earth fictional realms show.

        You’ll find that a superior intellect can do great things without going through any fighting whatsoever. The Maker proved this, Maestro proved this, Batman proved this, and Doom has also proved this.

        To be quite honest, exploits of intelligence performed by physical weaker foes are far more impressive than powerhouses punching things.
        Take Galactus for example. Though powerful by an incredible margin, he is aware of forces greater than he. As a result, the Consumer of Worlds utilized science to conceive a device capable of breaching the fabric of space-time to destroy universe and timelines.
        The Ultimate Nulifier is undoubtedly one of the most powerful weapons ever conceived. With a mere thought, its user could blast an entire 5th dimensional macrocosm into oblivion.
        There are very few with the power to destroy entire multiverses and timelines without any physical strain.

        Are you unaware of the fact that Dragon Ball has taught us that power isn’t everything?

      • Bass absorbed Megaman to get that form in the manga so it’s certainly still his power. Think of it like Vegito. Also, that was totally a black hole. It’s what Cosmoman does, create black holes. It’s just as strong as a real one imo and Bass broke it in one shot. That’s extremely impressive. As for the character development thing, it is tricky since both forms of Bass were really cool. I suppose that mileage will vary on this kind of thing. The camera part was for his original appearance when he first fought Megaman. Everyone was shocked and trying to get a picture of him, but he was too fast.

        As for Kirito, it was still a pivotal moment.

        Whether it was data or not, he survived through will power alone. It was awesome and something only Kirito could do!

        I’m not so much blaming Spectre as I’m saying that there was no reason to let Supergirl go there. As for Superman, even if crushing through reality could destroy a bunch of people, it wasn’t a certainty while he could definitely save Supergirl. So, there was a lot of risk, but the risk was worth it. Risking a planet full of people to save 1 person is always worth it because you can potentially save them all. You have to win without letting anyone die. That’s the only way to win, you can’t accept any losses even if it’s for “The greater good” it’s just not worth it.

        I have to disagree. Strong people punching things will always be the most impressive. Strategy can only go so far. Look at this gif and you’ll see what I mean. The intellectual sees the situation and strategically throws a punch when there is an opening, yet it is all futile because the power hitter just punched back.

        Power is crucial. It’s not everything, but it is very important. As for Dr Doom, again, Goku would just power up and it’s all over. Dr Doom’s a nice guy and he’s pretty smart so I’m not trying to diss him. I’m just saying that he doesn’t stand a chance at taking Goku down. Goku is just wayyyyyyy too powerful. The gap is too extreme. It’s like an ant vs a Rhino. No matter how well the ant plans things out, he can’t win.

      • That still means he’s using power from an assisting source.
        Fusion counts as utilizing assistance from others. Bass did not do this alone.
        Concerning Cosmoman, I still fail to image THAT being classified as an intense gravitational singularity. I need another example of him creating a black hole in order to verify this.
        I do know he has many powers relating to celestial bodies (suns, planets, and what not), but that could’ve been a dimensional portal, something commonly used by cosmic manipulators like himself.

        …Um…so…when does he come back from death?
        You showed him retaining his DIGITAL life, but you forgot to include him returning from death.
        Also, one puncture to the chest?
        Boromir took two arrows to the chest and still had the will to fight. Even after the third arrow he still had a moment of humanity before passing on into the afterlife.

        Dreager…you…just…*sigh*
        Risk on that scale should not be considered so loosely. As we saw there was also uncertainty of whether or not Superman would be able to keep up Supergirl.
        Superman was chewing out Spectre for gambling with Kara’s life when he paid NO mind to how his power affected the people around him.

        “Risking a planet full of people to save 1 person is always worth it because you can potentially save them all. You have to win without letting anyone die. That’s the only way to win, you can’t accept any losses even if it’s for ‘The greater good” it’s just not worth it.’

        That’s the thing about risk Dreager. Once you cross that line, there’s no going back and you need to suffer the consequences. By leaving a fully populated planet die when you were inches away from preventing the catastrophe in order to save someone who put THEMSELVES in harm’s way, you are committing an act that leaves billions of innocent lives in the event horizon of death. When you choose one over the other, the latter must suffer. It is up to you to decide what is worth more.
        Superman was destroying dimensional barriers. If Spectre didn’t stop him when he did, he would’ve destroyed the final barrier that encompasses the ENTIRE multiverse.
        The sheer scope of that level is monumental compared to what Superman was after.

        Spectre explained this and told him civilizations beyond numbering would be destroyed as a result. Regardless of whether or not he saved his cousin, Spectre’s absence would have certainly meant the end for many innocent lives.
        Besides, all Superman had to do was ask for help. Once he did that, all else was resolved!

        As Spectre established, Supergirl was unconscious during the time and was unaware of what she might see. Once Superman calmed down and heard Spectre and the voice of God, all was resolved.
        Spectre brought Supergirl back, departed while referring to Superman as a friend, and taught the Man of Steel a valuable lesson: “Power for power’s sake is utterly worthless! Power is meaningless, until it is tempered with conscience!”
        I feel like you are only reading a small fraction of what I am telling you.

        Doom
        Would
        Not
        Fight
        Goku
        Physically

        He’s smarter than that.
        He knows issuing a challenge for Goku would be foolish in his current state.
        A fight with Doom is battle of the minds instead of a battle of strength.

        Did Doom trying out punching Galactus?
        NO!
        He used the advantage of Galactus’ presence and his perception of Doom being a small threat to take his power right under his nose…or…above his nose…and head…

        Did Doom try to punch the Beyonder after being blasted back?
        NO!
        He collected advanced technology from Battleworld to build a suit of armor to take the Beyonder’s power.

        Did Doom try to blast Silver Surfer?
        NO!
        He treated their gathering as meeting of friends and trick Surfer into thinking Doom was a nothing more than a curious scientist trying to help.

        Do you see a pattern?
        In a PHYSICAL fight, each one of these foes could kill Doom several times over.
        Knowing this, Doom does not fight.
        He hides in the shadows, tricks his opponents, and steals their power.

        A battle between Goku and Doom would not be a battle.
        It would be an instance where Goku would be tricked to believing Doom is a noble soul only wishing to analyze his unique power and honor his commendable efforts as a hero by providing him with praise and glory from his Latveria subjects.

        With Doom’s intellect and Goku’s tendency to let his guard down, Doom would be able to lure Goku in with his deceiving nature and take his power while he sleeps.
        It wouldn’t be the first time Goku’s been blissfully unaware while napping. He is a very heavy sleeper all things considered and it would appear as though his guard has been lowered with each Dragon Ball series.
        As Whis established, he’s much too relaxed. Even in the heat of the moment, Goku is notorious for leaving unfinished.

        Look, I’m not saying Doom can beat Goku in a one on one fight in his base form. I’m saying Goku’s brutish strength won’t save him in a battle of wits if Doom is his intellectual rival.

      • There was no assistance. Bass just plain absorbed Megaman just like he did with Serenade and the others. It was all Bass at that moment. As for Cosmoman, I guess we’ll just have to disagree on that one. It was presented as a Black Hole so unless there is proof of it being anything else, I’d say that we have to accept it as being one. It’s disappointing for fans of other characters since it gives Bass such a good feat, but that’s how it goes sometimes.

        As for Kirito, remember that if you die in the game you die in real life. It was very real at that point and it just goes to show that sometimes will power can override real life mechanics. It’s the ultimate skill.

        As for Superman, he was still in the right. The Spectre could have saved Supergirl instantly, but he wanted Superman to ask for help because he’s arrogant like all of the other cosmic deities. Superman should have shoved him to the side. I stick by the theory and naturally the consequences as well. You have to try to save everyone even if there is a big risk. It’s just what heroes do and there’s no other option. Superman made the right calls here.

        I’m reading, but disagreeing. You keep making these big plans about how Doom would defeat Goku and they wouldn’t work. He won’t be able to kill Goku while he sleeps. He won’t be able to drain his energy. He wouldn’t be able to harness that energy if he could get it. The whole mission is impossible from the start. He can beat Goku at Checkers. He can beat Goku at a spelling bee. However, Doom can never hope to beat Goku in any form of combat or trial. Tricks don’t work on Goku like that and his power is so massive that he is protected from everything.

  27. if physical power is all you need to win a fight, and being intelligent doesn’t matter, then how are humans the top species? we are not the strongest, fastest, most durable, other animals out class us by far in those categorizes. but we are the smartest, by far. if a boxer went up in a fight, ageist an anatomist, the boxer would most likely lose. the anatomist would just hold an artery and release and the boxer is down, and may be dead.

    • You’re bringing the real world into this again which is the problem. In the real world, there aren’t 1 vs 1 fights so it’s a lot different. The boxer would beat the anatomist by the way

      • i’m just trying to make a point. strength is not everything. i mean look at Ironman or Batman! and Batman with six years of prep would beat goku.

      • if i had all the knowledge in everything, my knowledge is infinite, i can beat anyone. i would be able manipulate atoms, i could say a few chose words and they would break down. i wold know everything. would you rather be a moron that could lift a tank with your little finger or a scrawny guy with infinite knowledge?

      • Nah, just because you know everything doesn’t mean you’d be strong. For example, you’d know how your opponent would defeat you…you just wouldn’t be able to stop him.

      • think, if i knew everything, i would know everything about you, and i can use it against you. psychology is a scary thing. abused as a child? i can use that against you. (r)aped as a child? i can, and i will. i can blackmail you with your deepest darkest secrets. again, look at Ironman and Batman.

      • I agree with lokithemaster (once again).

        Knowing EVERYTHING about your foe is the most valuable asset one can have.
        The preparation may be rigorous, but enough time can lead to some great progress.

        It’s a shame there aren’t any genius with a time machine that can be utilized to offer said genius with all the time in the universe to prepare…

        Oh, wait…

      • Knowing is great, but you need to have your fisticuffs at the ready to really deal damage. Also, Time machines wouldn’t be legal in a fight like this. If we ignore the blog rules for a second, then sure. You could always use a time machine to go back to when your opponent was born and take them out. It’s a pretty OP combo

      • Okay, let’s say the people i have previously mentioned are given one week of prep. at the end of that week they enter the arena, they fight. the smart guy made a laser canon and obliterates the other guy. or he made a atom manipulator.

        think about Attack On Titan, if they just stopped attacking the titans and put more time and money into R&D, they could make a jet, or a tank and destroy the titans with ease. but no, they want to wipe out the titans with what they have now.

        if you know everything, you can do almost anything.

      • Thing is, if the smart guy misses the shot. It’s all over. The strong guy will just knock him out. Trust me, the whole situation is a lot tougher than you would initially expect. Think of it like a pizza vs a hamburger. The hamburger can try all kinds of things to make itself tastier, but it will never surpass the pizza.

      • no. just no. he wouldn’t miss because he knows everything. he knows what you are going to do. and the gun would have more than one shot. you have to think dreager! intelligence is power. how do you think Hitler rose to power? he was incredibly smart, a few different turns and he could have been the next Edison. if you are just strong you are not getting anywhere in life, but if you are smart, there you go. good job, lots of money, nice house, nice car, contemplating the universe a lot, etc.

      • I know how you love to bring up Hitler all the time so I’ll counter with an even better example…my pizza delivery man. He knows a lot since we order from Domino’s all the time but he still manages to arrive on the wrong floor every now and again. That’s because even the best of planning can’t stop you from making a mistake while raw strength will always come through in the clutch for you. That’s the mark of a true hero.

      • i like how you are comparing Adolf Hitler to your pizza man. a genius to a guy who brings your pizza.

      • Are you trying to say that my pizza delivery man isn’t a genius? I’ll have you know that he actually gets my order right once in a blue moon. It’s quite impressive.

      • well, seeing i painted the moon blue two years ago….

        but yes, unless your pizza man is neil degrasse tyson, or stephen hawking, i am.

      • is he completely paralyzed? does he have an IQ of like 200? is he the smartest human in the world?

      • yes, but we are getting off topic. being strong is not all you need. if you know everything you are almost unstoppable. no mater how strong you are the smarter guy will most likely beat you. look at Dr.Doom, Batman, Ironman, etc.

      • Dreager, how do you think wars are won? is it by sending out waves and waves of solders with no strategy? no they are won with strategy.

      • That’s an awfully specific example, but I can still stop it. The tacticians can’t win without the actual soldiers who win with power

      • oh, yes. using their AK-47’s made by smart people, and tanks, and jets going 6 times the speed of sound, and massive ships with giant guns, and bombs that split atoms and wipe out cites, but you know, all you need is to be strong. and no, they do not need the solders, they can launch the bombs from the base among other things. and the solders have to be very smart not to get killed.

      • You’re moving the goal posts though. Without soldiers, tacticians can’t win. You can have the greatest tech in the world but if there’s nobody to pilot it, then it’s game over. Why do you think people are always yelling “Give me some Chocolate Chip Cookies!” They could invent them, but you need the tough battle hardened cooks to actually make them. It’s sort of like how I tried to be the world’s best blogger through rigorous posting as opposed to strategic plotting.

      • oh, then who is in control of the most powerful weapons the world has ever seen? the president, not a solder. the solder may beat him in an arm wrestle, but when it really comes down to it the smarter one will survive longer. even the solders use tactics. the strongest solders (SEAL team 6) have to be incredibly smart, they have to be able to think on the spot. and you know who could beat goku with no debate possible? Chuck Norris.

      • Sure, but who’d win in a fight? President Trump r one of the soldiers in the trenches? I think we know the answer to that. Batman w Prep Time beats Chuck tho

      • many things are wrong with that
        1) are you living in WW2? we do not fight in trenches.
        2)Trump. why? the secret service, a solder would not hit the president, if he did he would get taken down within a second by the the secret service, if he did hit/kill Trump he would be sentenced to death.

        no. Chuck Norris would crush batman because he is stronger. by your logic.

      • 1. We still do in my heart
        2. Because you brought up the President.
        3. Batman is stronger, have you seen his biceps?

      • One Above All is basically just an old man who can fly while Goku is the Saiyan of legend. We know who should win this fight

      • 1) feelings don’t change facts.

        2) what? you didn’t even try and retort.

        3) have you seen Chuck Norris?

      • 1. We could change the Trench to a steel mill then
        2. Going back to the original analogy, power beats intelligence. So, a soldier who can fight has the edge over the smarter President
        3. Yes, but he’s no Batman.

      • 1) what? no! we would get slaughtered!
        2)look at my previous comment on this.
        3)then batman w/prep would beat goku.
        4) where is everyone else? did you have them killed?! am i the last one?! am i next?! did we put up too much evidence for you and now you are killing us one by one?! i mean i’m fine with dying but i’m not sure about the other guys.

      • 1. Don’t underestimate good ole American ingenuity.
        2. See my previous comment as well
        3. I can agree to that but Goku with more muscle could beat Batman w prep time
        4. We all die next to Fried Oreos when the time is right. I just had one and it was Crispy!

      • 1) YEAH! America! but no, we will not go back to trenches.
        2) same
        3) no, batman can beat almost anyone.
        4)what? that sounds nasty.

      • 1) still no
        2) likewise.
        3) but batman has prep. and almost means anyone that is not omnipotent, or can warp reality.
        4) it still sounds gross.

      • 1. Fine, we’ll go back to the trenches
        2. Ditto
        3. Right, almost is still key here. Goku’s too strong
        4. It’s amazing tho

      • 1) why? it makes no sense.
        2) same here
        3) nope.
        4) i still want to barf

  28. That still doesn’t change the fact that he used additional power from another Navi. They fused their power together. In fact, both of them were still conscious in that form.
    It still means Bass was unable to destroy that portal independently.

    Once again, for Cosmoman, I have no reason to believe THAT was a black hole. It could have just been a portal. It resembled a disk without the dark singularity in the center and it even had nebulae and stars on its “surface structure” to signify it actually GOES somewhere.

    I can see why it wouldn’t stretch Bass Cross Megaman, but the rest of the matter still retained its three dimensional form. The rocks were crumbling, not stretching.

    No event event horizon, minus a singularity, divided by the lack of stretching matter, to the square root of no mention of a black hole equals…

    *Now let me do some math here*

    No black hole…

    So…when did Kirito come back?
    If he did come back, was it through his own power or an assisted force?
    Even if he resisted death, he could only do it momentarily.
    Boromir just as formidably stayed up and continued fighting while still being punctured in two different places.

    Precisely.
    You must save EVERYONE even if there is a risk.
    The majority of the universe counts more than one soul that was placed in danger through their own power.
    Superman is meant to be the universe protector. If chasing after his cousin would lead to the destruction of civilizations beyond numbering, he should have stopped when the Spectre warned him.
    The fact that you are dignifying Superman putting so many lives at risk is blasphemous towards Superman’s objective as a hero.

    This is a scenario that many execute, while still having a well guided conscience, some need to push others into accepting when they need help.
    You know that phrase “all you had to do was ask”?
    Historically, it’s been a classic statement utilized when some individuals refuse to admit when they are in need of assistance.
    Some are embarrassed to let people know they need help.
    Some are too arrogant to realize that they do need help.
    Some believe themselves to be too well off to see any reason why they would need help.
    The latter would be for Superman’s case.

    Click this link to learn more:
    https://blogs.psychcentral.com/your-mind/2015/08/all-you-had-to-do-was-ask/

    He’s been perceived as a god during the Silver Age in more scenarios than this comment section can handle.
    He’s always though himself capable of doing anything.
    But he can’t.
    So, this can be perceived as learning experience for him.

    Also, the cosmic deities are not jerks as long as you continue to dignify Bass’ brash behavior. You still have yet to provide any scans that the cosmic entities acting outside of their designated role to resume the balance.

    Oh Dreager, Dreager, Dreager…

    You think FAR too small 😉

    You need to be more imaginative (and informed) in order to see what I see.

    You think geniuses are just eggheads that can’t do anything against a brawler, when this has been proven false time and time again.

    Geniuses have built devices capable of destroying time lines, sentient life forms, armored suits capable of combating supernatural threats, and weapons with enough force to kill gods.

    Take the brilliant Maker for example (my second favorite villain of all time).

    His supernatural ability to enhance his intellect at an exponential rate has given him the mental capacity to create a hyper-hyperbolic time chamber, several different spacecrafts capable of surpassing the speed of light, a sentient civilization with the technological means to combat and physically best the Mighty Thor, access to the most canonically powerful weapon in the Marvel continuity, a teleportation device that can travel to other realities faster than Whis can travel throughout the universe, a time machine, and a tesseract capable of creating ANYTHING he thinks of whether not he is even holding it.

    That coupled with the fact that he is a shape-shifting, immortal meta-human makes him one if the most devastating entities I have ever come to know.

    What’s even more ridiculous is the fact that, after the events of Secret Wars (2015), he has access to every universe in the ever-expanding Multiverse.
    He and Doom are going to face off!
    I’M SO PUMPED FOR THEIR FIGHT 😀


    *ahem*
    Sorry, I…got a little carried away…

    So, while Bass is “shaking plants” and Cell is destroying singular solar systems, the Maker destroyed over sixty worlds with his technology alone (sixty-seven to be exact)
    That is the equivalent of SEVERAL solar systems.
    Keep in mind the possibility of other worlds retaliating against his plans to destroy them.

    In addition to that, knowledge does not just delve into the laboratory. Doom has used his advanced mind to learn of the nervous system. With that knowledge, he learned how to end a lion’s life with a single strike of precision.
    Anyone who says vast knowledge is not true power lacks imagination (which, believe it or not, is also an aspect of intelligence).

    I never said kill…, though Goku has lowered his power to the point of letting bullets hurt him in the past…so…I might be right.
    (I’ll keep that in mind for other discussions)
    As for harnessing his power, it would child’s play with how psychologically vulnerable Goku has been.
    He’s…very, very easy to trick to the point where it can be listed as one of his weaknesses.

    Even for characters that don’t have Doom’s level of tactical analyzing, he’s let his guard way down regardless of whether or not he’s awake OR asleep. So, even if you refuse to realize how often Goku falls for tricks of even greater simplicity, it does not change the fact that Goku has the tendency to openly let himself fall into the enemies clutches, regardless of whether or not they are stronger than him.

    Doom has the advantage due to being perceived as harmless individual to Goku’s arrogant eyes.
    Plus, he’s clearly developed technology far more advanced after his experience with Beyonder.
    After all, when he absorbed the Beyonder’s power, he adsorbed the equivalent to an infinite reality in the literal sense.
    Absorbing Goku’s ki should be easier, considering how much weaker he is compared to the Beyonder and the other beings Doom as usurped power from (Yep, I said it, because it’s true).

    Goku obviously can’t sense when HIS ki is leaving his body by technological means.
    Besides, once the process starts, it will turn into a contest of willpower…which Doom also excels at against Goku. Sure, there would be struggle, but by the time Goku does realize thi-…sorry…IF Goku does realizes this, Doom will have already gained enough power to enhance his strength, speed, and durability to the point of using Goku’s OWN power to restrain him. That is, assuming it doesn’t take few minutes to steal all of his power.
    Doom wouldn’t even need a giant clunky machine that Goku would need to voluntarily sit in. His siphoning harness can be worn on his suit of armor AND he can fly with it.

    It’s not impossible.
    This is Doom’s specialty.

    In summary, this entire instance is based on whether or not Goku will see past Doom’s kind words (which, as established in his many confrontations with liars, he will not), whether or not he will keep his guard up against Doom (which he won’t), whether or not he can sense his ki leaving his body (which he can’t), whether or not he has enough willpower to keep his energy (which he doesn’t), and whether or not he is intelligent enough to see past Doom’s master plan (which he obviously is not).

    • That is Bass’ power. He stole it so it’s rightfully his. It’s like when I grab that extra slice of pizza down the block. It may not have been mine at first, but it was mine by the end.

      It was totally a black hole. It didn’t obey physics because the author wasn’t thinking about it. It just makes sense since this is Cosmoman after all. The simplest answer is typically the right one.

      Kirito just came back. He beat the boss which caused the game to end and then he woke up in the real world. He defied the game and that’s because he’s an awesome character. Not saying it was the best durability feat, but negating death with will power is pretty impressive.

      Superman doesn’t need help and he shouldn’t have to ask. Also, you’re contradicting yourself there. Saving everyone means just that. Risking the lives of a multiverse to save one soul is perfectly in the right because it doesn’t mean that they are doomed. There’s just a chance that they will die whereas if Superman doesn’t act, the one person will die. That’s why he has to make his move and go for it since he needs to save everyone. Risking a bunch of lives for Supergirl’s sake is par for the course.

      You’re still overrating Dr Doom. Power is everything as characters in Sengoku Basara always say. Here’s a clip of Hideyoshi proving that tactics can’t stop overwhelming power.

      Beyonder is not even in Goku’s league so Doom still can’t hold his energies. Goku could just power up and they’d all blow up. In a fight he just won’t lose. Doom can win in Scrabble or Chess, but a fight is out of the equation. We could come up with some convoluted scenario where it isn’t an official fight and Doom travels back to the past to end the match or something, but that’s grasping at straws. In a fight Goku has got this made and his super speed and enegry guarantee victory. He is the Saiyan of Legend, He is the Hero of Heroes, He is…Goku! Keep in mind that Marvel and DC are way below DBZ in just about every meaningful category. They can’t hope to stand up against this level of power.

      • If he stole it, that means he could not obtain that power on his own. He had to borrow power from someone else. Even then, Megaman was also utilizing their combined power during that battle.
        It still counts as him using assistance from Megaman.

        Has Cosmoman ever made a black hole before?
        Was it even stated that this rift WAS a black hole?
        If the answer is no for both of these questions, then I have no reason to believe Bass Cross Megaman destroyed a black hole and you have no right to suggest it IS a black hole if any evidence of it being one is not present.
        I have seen MANY fictional black holes and all of them have followed their design and fuction.
        Mario
        DC
        Marvel
        Adventure Time
        Zathura
        Every fictional black hole I’ve seen has not looked like that.
        They look like REAL BLACK HOLES.

        In addition to that, upon closer examination, it doesn’t even look like a celestial body.
        It looks like a shield.
        This can be verified by the reflective appearance it has. In the center of a black hole, there is nothing but darkness. There are no stars, there are no nebulae, and there is no light, yet it looks like the Gate he is creating is reflecting light instead of consuming it. Hmmmmm…
        This can also be verified by the *SHING* sound it makes instead of *SWOOOOOOOOSH* or a *BWOOOAAAM*. Instead, it makes a shing sound like a metallic item.
        Also, do you notice how NOTHING is being sucked into it? Nothing is even being destroyed by it. It’s just…there and it’s not harming the environment in any way. Even a dimensional vortex creates some sort of shockwave or tremor that affects its surroundings, but it doesn’t even seem to serve as an attack at all.
        Finally, if my Megaman knowledge is correct, Cosmoman has utilized a “gate” move before. The only move I know of that has “gate” in the name is a barrier that blocks incoming enemies, similarly to how Bass Cross Megaman Charged at him.
        They both bear a striking resemblance eh?

        So…care to explain what exactly makes THAT a black hole?

        Wait…beating him…finished the game?
        Well…I guess that explains how he came back.

        First of all, Superman does need help.
        Once again, you being unable to accept this will not change anything.
        Second, I think you are misinterpreting what is being established. You have yet to see the full gravity of the consequences that could’ve transpired.
        Saving everyone cannot be achieved if your proceeding actions are the very thing that will destroy them.
        In the moment where Kara was in Kal’s sight-line, he was narrowly approaching realities final dimensional barrier. Though Spectre had to stop Kal from saving Kara, he was ultimately protecting countless lives from devastation at the hands of Superman’s devastating speed.
        Superman HAD to stop going that fast. If he didn’t, cosmic devastation was guaranteed.

        So, Superman had two directions to go.
        He could’ve either kept trying to save Kara thus destroying the final dimensional barrier that encompasses reality and decimated populations too great to number, or he could’ve stopped thus sparring these civilizations.
        Keep in mind that, with how fast Superman was going, he could’ve destroyed the final barrier regardless of whether or not he was able to save Supergirl at all.
        Spectre tried to talk to Superman.
        Superman refused to listened and instead tried thwarting him with physical violence instead of walking and talking with him like a rational individual from the start.

        On a side note, do you even know why Supergirl was going that fast in the first place?

        Y’know, I’m beginning to question whether or not you possess the cognitive ability to properly analyze the full context of a given comment. It still feels as though you are misinterpreting what I am saying.
        Doom is not going to fight Goku. I don’t know how many times I need to say this in order for you to understand that.
        He’s not even going to issue a challenge. His superior intellect is going to be used as a way to trick the saiyan into playing into a trap.
        Goku has allowed many foes to deceive him. For other foes, he voluntarily makes himself vulnerable.
        As established by the referenced scenario, Doom will use his deceptive abilities to take Goku’s power for himself.

        Again, the Beyonder is superior to Goku in every way in terms of battling. He’s performed to an extent that easily surpasses Goku’s current capabilities.
        His energy attacks are stronger, he can attack faster, his omnipresence allows him to attack and evade from any direction or location, and he is dimensionally structured to have infinite layers above Goku’s.
        He’s more powerful in every conceivable way.

        Also, that scene you linked was a FIGHTING scenario. A fighting scenario that utilized primitive technology created in an age far behind Doom’s.
        Once again, I will reference the Maker’s genius.
        With HIS strategic skills, he built a cuboid volitional lattice. It can convert matter and energy at will, view entire landscapes like a camera with bird’s eye view from far away locations, freeze atmospheres, turn oceans into stone, open portals, and create force fields.
        It had the power to turn Thor into a tree.
        What do they have?
        Broad swords, bows, and boats?
        Those pale in comparison to the world and universe destroying weapons masterminds have developed with technology centuries ahead of their trinkets.

        Knowledge is power Dreager, but you seem to think it can only be shown outside of physical conflicts.
        I pity you.
        I pity you in sense that it saddens me to know you look down on knowledge.
        What you showed was brute strength.
        It can only get you so far until it is used against you.
        You may see a gaggle of braniacs tinkering with chemistry sets and note books, but you have yet to see their science taken to nth degree.
        Armored suits, matter converters, teleportation devices, vessels traveling at light speed, biologically enhanced superhumans, and robot ninja armies with LASER KATANAS are just the tip of the iceberg for what tactical geniuses are capable of. To compare a scenario that predates such a primitive era is an insult.

        Do you honestly think Thanos became as powerful as he is with basic means of enhancing power?

        NO!

        He used science! Back on titan, he was egghead of eggheads among the rest of the students. He was the second biggest nerd on the planet. His family was comprised of some of the planet’s greatest scientists. Using this knowledge, he biologically enhanced his physical dexterity and energy projection to a level rivaling that physiology of his godlike race.
        Science made him one of the most powerful enemies in Marvel’s continuity. Though, once again, I wouldn’t expect you to have much knowledge on comic lore.

        You need to be more imaginative. Genius is taken further than playing chess or scrabble. The fact that you are reducing the capabilities of Doom’s intellect to these games is an insult to him as well.
        Then again, with how wrong you’ve been before, I’m just waiting for you to make another error someone needs to address.

        Also, DC and Marvel are not below Dragon Ball in every meaningful category.
        That statement is completely biased and holds no truth.

      • No, it’s like when you steal someone’s frisbee, it is now yours. Bass stole the form and made it his own so it then became his own. Rogue stole Ms. Marvel’s powers and then made it her own. It’s not assistance because it is now hers.

        This black hole looked like one. At least it looked like one to me. Of course they wouldn’t explicitly state it, it just happens. I think it’s reasonable to assume it is one.

        Nah, you’re taking it out of context. Kirito should have died because he was out of lives, but he effectively grabbed his game shark and added another one. He used will power to survive and then beat the game. In that order.

        It wasn’t guaranteed destruction, look at the scan again. There was just a chance that it would do so. As I said, risking the lives of millions to save one person from imminent destruction is totally worth it. Spectre was just being a jerk by not saving Supergirl right away and Superman was in the right here. Sometimes you do have to solve your problems with your fists so I was okay with how Superman reacted here.

        All right, so at least you admit that Goku would easily defeat Dr. Doom. Dr Doom can trick Goku sure, but he won’t be able to ever defeat him. At best he can survive through his wit, but the instant he tries to zap Goku’s energy, it’s game over. He’ll be finished off quicker than my pepperoni pizza.

        Look…DBZ is the greatest!

    • He didn’t make it his own. Megaman was still able to access their combined power. They both still possessed awareness during the time.
      They FUSED together, thus implying that BOTH of them were contributing to the fight.
      It’s a completely different scenario from Rogue.
      Rogue merely absorbed Ms. Marvel’s POWERS and added them to her current abilities.
      Bass merged his entire form with Megaman’s form to become a completely different entity. He didn’t take Megaman’s power. He merged with Megaman entirely, which is classified as fusing.
      Saying Bass was the only contributor is like saying Vegito and Gogeta only had ONE pilot seat.

      …What exactly makes that attack a black hole?
      What PROOF do you have of that being a black hole?

      Death in SAO occurs when the Nervegear sends powerful microwaves to the brain. Surviving a stab to the chest in SAO does not mean you survived a stab to the chest in REAL life.
      (I will admit that dying while fighting for what you believe in is one of the most heroic ways one can go out.)
      So, I still have not seen enough to suggest willpower was the reason for Kirito’s resurrection.

      I could just as easily say the Maker returned after Molecule Man sliced him into pieces through willpower.
      I could say Thanos (Infinity Gauntlet) became his universe through willpower.
      I could say the Presence held his own against the Great Evil Beast through willpower.
      However, I’m not one to make up my own stories without having enough verification…

      I need more to verify Kirito using willpower in this scenario.

      Also, even if willpower WAS involved, how does this correlate to Goku when he doesn’t have any feats that involve him returning from death. In fact, there are little to no feats that support the idea that Goku has the willpower to do this. If anything, he has shown to LACK the willpower to do this.

      How exactly was it NOT guaranteed?
      Superman was about to destroy the final barrier that housed all of reality. If he destroyed that, it would be game over for EVERYONE. His love Louis, his best friend Jimmy, his friends in the League, and even his cousin Kara would suffer consequences of HIS recklessness.
      Superman is supposed to PROTECT everyone. Throwing that all away is NOT worth it, especially if multiple realities are involved.
      Keep in mind that there are other universes in the DC Multiverse with Supermen and Supergirls that cherish one another very much.
      If I were in Superman’s shoes, I would put their lives FIRST,

      “Sometimes you do have to solve your problems with your fists so I was okay with how Superman reacted here”
      This was the very thing Spectre was trying to teach him. He has inner violent tendencies that provoke him to use his power in whatever manner he desires rather than fighting for what is just. As Spectre stated, Superman was not thinking with his head. He did not consider the consequences of his actions as a result of the vast stores of power within his being.


      Though some problems must be addressed through physical confrontations, a true hero tries their best to find an alternative route.

      As referenced by his battle with Android 19, Goku cannot sense his ki being sapped from his body without some sort of indication from outside forces (his friends). However, unlike Android 19, Doom’s harness does not require the victim to be within reach and it also does not require said victim to expel their energies through energy based attacks.

      Keep in mind that Goku would more than likely let his gurad down upon entering Doom;s embassy. Afterall, when entering Babidi’s vessel, he was completely relaxed as they continued to submerge.
      If Goku is willing to let his guard down within a teleporting space sanctuary housing one of the most destructive forces in the universe, then entering the Latverian embassy of the nation’s cherished monarch will leave Goku wide open for ANYTHING.

      I bet Goku would allow Doom to do it even if he openly stated his plan to do so.
      With the beings Doom has usurped power from; it should be rather easy to wield Goku’s energies.

      “Look…DBZ is the greatest!”
      That statement is ALSO a completely biased.

      • i would like to interject with something. ignore this if you want but i think the best way to die would be strapped to an atom bomb, dropped on ISIS, holding a baseball bat, wearing a cowboy hat, Slim Pickens blasting in the background, and screaming “YOU WANT A SUICIDE BOMBER?! I’LL GIVE YOU A SUISIDE BOMBER!” now, don’t let this interrupt you.

      • I will admit that the death you described would be legendary.

        I merely made my suggestion in that comment based on a moral standing point.

      • I wouldn’t say that Megaman had any awareness at the time to be honest though. Bass was completely in the driver’s seat and he definitely wasn’t leaving anytime soon. It’s just a form that Bass obtained like his Hubstyle form.

        I think it was a black hole because it definitely looked like one. It’s nothing deep like I looked inside it or I calced its parameters or anything. It just looks like one and I feel that it was the intent of the manga.

        Right, but Kirito died in the game at that moment. His life points ran out so the shock would have been sent to his brain. However, his will power froze the shock and kept him alive by preventing it. He surpassed everything and Goku’s will is just as strong…if not stronger! Goku’s endured a lot of pain in his fights like when he fought Android 19 and he’s still kicking. That says a lot imo.

        Well, even Spectre just said that it could happen so I don’t consider it to be a certainty. Superman may have caught Supergirl before she reached the end. Again, it’s a totally reasonable risk for Superman to have taken if you ask me. Saving her is worth the multiverse. Spectre is the one with violent tendencies. He should have told Superman that he’d save Supergirl instead of trying to flex his muscles and bluff his way around. That’s just not how you do things around here.

        The statement of mine was a little bias, but Goku’s just too strong for Doom. Doom can try to siphon off some of Goku’s energy, but that would be like draining billions of Galactus’ or something like that. It’s just too much energy and Doom couldn’t hope to control it for long without blowing up. Even Yakon blew up from it and Meta Cooler couldn’t handle the power either

      • Then why were Bass and Megaman having a conversation at the time?
        http://www.mangahere.co/manga/megaman_nt_warrior/v11/c003/12.html
        More importantly, during that fight, Megaman was acting out of his accord to save his friends. Bass said “Do you plan to throw away our victory?”, thus implying that Megaman was capable of independently acting whilst they were fused together.

        You keep trying to convince me into believing Cosmoman’s gate attack was a black hole when you don’t have any real support for that argument.
        “It just looks like a black hole.”
        Based on what? The only property it possesses that is also shared by a black hole is its black hue.

        First, once again, I need more verification in order to be ensured that what you explain actually transpired.

        Second, though Goku is an admirable combatant, his will power is suffering.
        While Goku has been put through much pain, he has shown to lack the ability to endure it well. The main objective of pain to hear the victim shriek in agony.
        Goku does this A LOT!
        Doom on the other hand was tortured in HELL and refused to let a single audible indication of pain exit his mouth. His willpower was strong to point of refusing to give his oppressors the pleasure of hearing him in pain.
        Also, from what I recall, Goku was placed in a catatonic state after being electrocuted. Such pain would be nothing for Doom to endure.

        Another thing I’d like to point out is willpower may be different depending on the person.
        In Dragon Ball, I’d say the warriors I can name off the top of my head with greatest willpower are Piccolo and Vegeta.
        Piccolo’s willpower delves into pain resistence, as shown by how he can remove his physical extremities willingly.
        Vegeta’s willpower delves into mental fortitude, as show with his defense against Babidi’s magic (However, one can argue that Babidi’s “mind control” was more of a side effect of being an offering for Majain Buu instead of the initial effect).
        Of course, my conclusion is based on actual instances instead of biased viewpoints.

        The certainty of that even occurring was based on whether or not Superman was willing to stop. Spectre gave Superman a chance to stop on his own, but ultimately needed to interfere. With how fast Superman was going, he could’ve been right at the very BRINK of causing a total event collapse.
        I still fail to see how one life is more important than a potentially infinite number of innocent souls without any desire to harm another. Superman has other friends back on earth and beyond that have been there with him since the beginning. He should’ve thought about them as well.
        Again, Superman was the aggressor in that instance. Besides, Superman already said he did not want Spectre to interfere with any affairs concerning his cousin. Perhaps Sprectre is also a practitioner of etiquette and decided not to act in such a tense situation without the consent of one who was initially involved.
        Acting without thinking is one of the sure-fire ways of putting others in danger when you have that kind of power.

        Billion’s of Galactus’?
        Let me guess, you didn’t even bother to do any math in order to see the differentiation in power between the two.
        Am I wrong?

        Galactus was a being capable of universal devastation long before Goku reached that state. He’s shown to have the capacity to fight and defeat beings capable of eliminating entire galaxies and universes with brute force or pure energy. Now he is in possession of life energy that will never die out no matter how long he goes without devouring planets.
        He even had the power to repair Multi-Eternity (from what I’ve heard.)
        With that in mind, when Yakon and Meta Cooler were overloaded by Goku’s power, he was nowhere near Galactus’ level. Even now, after obtaining the power of a god, Goku still lacks the power he would need against a well fed Galactus, let alone the Lifebringer.

        With Doom’s experience after becoming a god SEVERAL times, he will be more than prepared for Goku’s energies.

      • Well at that point, that was Megaman’s program activating and bringing him back into the fight. Bass was nice enough not to totally consume him because he wanted a rematch at a later date.

        The black hue signifies that it’s a black hole. That’s the whole point of why they drew it like one and why it’s black. It just makes sense.

        Goku’s not thinking about the opponent, he just likes yelling a lot. Yelling does help you cope with the pain better so it’s Goku’s way of making things a little easier. He could stay silent if he wants, but where’s the fun in that? Why take the extra pain for no reason. It doesn’t say anything about Goku’s will power. Goku’s will power is unstoppable.

        Nah, Spectre just showed up with his arm stretched out practically yelling “Fight me” He could have stopped Supergirl but didn’t. Also, again, there is no proof that anyone would have been hurt by Superman’s charge. He would have saved Supergirl and I’m sure the multiverse would have been okay. As for one person against a multiverse, it’s because her death could be prevented. Not trying to save her is the worst outcome. Even if everyone else died, at least it would be instant. It’s like going out to try and save your friend even if you will doom the Earth should you fail. It’s totally worth it because after all, what use is the world to you if your friend is no longer there?

        Yeah I didn’t bother with the math because Goku’s just on a whole other level. I think you’re underestimating Meta Cooler as he could have easily handled Galactus. I’m telling you, Doom wouldn’t last long in DBZ world. He’d be overwhelmed almost instantly.

  29. ” Marvekl and DC are way below DBZin just about every meaningful category.” Lol, the lowball there. Cell’s solar system busting is nothing impressive to other feats in fiction. Goku nor Bass have ever demonstrated Omniverse level of power. Your just making claims to boost your belief that their at the top of the food chain. Their universe level at best. IMO, there’s truly one all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present being in all of fiction.

  30. Y’know, much as I think Dreager1 critically underestimates cosmic beings and fighters with anything cleverer than raw base statistics, I have to wonder about this “One Above All” everyone keeps backing up. They say he’s omnipotent and omniscient but then why does he barely do anything? So many disasters and villains could have been stopped if this guy just took the effort (effectively zero to an infinitely powerful being) to stop them. I get that he’s sort of supposed to represent the writers (particularly Stan Lee) and in that respect maybe his primary motivation is telling a good story, but if that’s the case he just sits as an underlying fourth wall gag that sort of undermines the existence of the Marvel Multiverse, and whatever he is, the fact he’s there ultimately reduces the potential threat of every villain in the entire continuity. Is it at all possible he’s overhyped in and out of universe? ‘Cause I sure as heck hope he is

    • Why didn’t (let’s say he is real) God stop 9/11, or the Holocaust, or all the shootings and bombings? he could have, but he didn’t. TOAA just doesn’t need to. he knows they can take care of it them self’s. and no he is not hype. remember how he recreated the multiverse in a blink of an eye with no effort? and remember how goku almost died to a laser? remember all the time goku died? everything is up to the writers,(or TOAA who is most likely is the writer) heck for all we know goku maybe gay!

      • Why doesn’t he “need to”? Why does this come down to need? If he has the means and knowledge to prevent tragedy with no effort, why not do so? The people who died couldn’t ” handle it”, as you put it. And how does Goku’s sexuality even factor into this? I’m not saying Goku would win, I guess I’m just expressing my distaste for the concept of One Above All

    • look at DarkLT’s comment.

      @dreager1

      if he is just an old man that can fly how did he restore a multiverse? how is he male and female? how did he bring Ben Grimm back from the dead? you keeps sayingthat with no proof, but with proof against it. just stop

      • i forgot to add, i will be gone for one week. so don’t expect any responses from me until the 17th or 18th .

      • Well, you can’t be male and female. He’s male. He restored a multiverse because he’s a cosmic being. He’s an old man with cosmic abilities. How’s that for a compromise?

      • @Dreager1 TOAA is NOT and I will repeat again, NOT an old man. He’s only taken that form TWICE. When he was talking to the Fantastic Four and Spiderman.That’s it. Show me another scan of him in another old man form. He’s only took those forms just to talk with the Fantastic Four and Spiderman.

  31. @adrogoz If God exist why doesn’t he prevent terrorist attacks? Why doesn’t he just kill ISIS or those organizations if he can? Why doesn’t he make the depressed happy? And if God exist, why doesn’t he just make this world perfect? Maybe it’s because that he wants his own creations to be strong and doesn’t want to keep doing everything for them. It’s like learning. If someone keeps doing something for you, you’ll never learn to do it on your own.

  32. Dreager, if i were all-powerful, unbeatable, unstoppable, fundamentally invincible, i can bypass any defense, i know everything, nothing can hurt me, i can do anything with out trying a bit, i can beat anyone, i am not bound by any laws of anything, i can bypass logic. could goku beat me?

      • What? i will repeat it

        if i were all-powerful, unbeatable, unstoppable, fundamentally invincible, i can bypass any defense, i know everything, nothing can hurt me, i can do anything without trying a bit, i can beat anyone, i am not bound by any laws of anything, i can bypass logic. could goku beat me?

      • Right, my answer was yes, Goku would still defeat you. Don’t underestimate the Kamehameha to Spirit Bomb true combo

      • (wow. this is like explaining string theory to a six year-old)

        i will repeat this one more time, and then i will go and explain stuff.

        if i were all-powerful, unbeatable, unstoppable, fundamentally invincible, i can bypass any defense, i know everything, nothing can hurt me, i can do anything with out trying a bit, i can beat anyone, i am not bound by any laws of anything, i can bypass logic. could goku beat me?

        All-powerful: “having complete power; almighty.”

        Unbeatable: “not able to be defeated or exceeded in a contest or commercial market.”

        Unstoppable: “impossible to stop or prevent.”

        fundamentally invincible: “too strong to be defeated”

        i can bypass any defense, i know everything, nothing can hurt me, i can do anything with out trying a bit, i can beat anyone, i am not bound by any laws of anything, i can bypass logic.: all of are pretty self explanatory.

        so tell me how goku beat someone that is unbeatable.

      • *4 year-old* A 6 year old can comprehend it a little better. Now, you’re basically just repeating yourself. Goku would still win…because he has to win. That’s really the only reason he needs. Bring on the fancy all powerful beings with their neat techniques, but Goku will blow them away every time. They don’t stand a chance against his incredible Saiyan might. He’s Goku after all, the hero that we need and the one that we deserve.

      • That… is a serious inconsistency.

        You stated yourself that, unlike immortal beings, Goku is relatable due to being limited.
        By saying he can defeat someone unbeatable, you disregard the key component of his character: *consistency*

        By your logic, Goku can defeat Bass as well, seen as how you made him unbeatable by means of your own plot hax.
        You contradicted your own rules.

        In addition to that, you have once again established the idea that Goku can defeat the very God you believe in.

        So which is it Dreager?

      • It should still be consistent. Goku is relatable because he’s not cheesily overpowered like the others. That doesn’t meant that he’s not the strongest though. He’s the 3rd strongest character in all of media. Even if a blogger became all powerful and got all of those tools, Goku would still win. Those abilities wouldn’t work on him because of his will power. Bass is stronger and faster than Goku so he couldn’t lose to the Saiyan. It could potentially be a fun fight though.

        We’re still talking fiction though. Goku can beat all fictional gods. He is the Saiyan of legend after all

      • That…..That…..WHAT?!

        “Goku is relatable because he’s not cheesily overpowered like the others. That doesn’t meant that
        he’s not the strongest though.”

        Then i could say “i’m not that strong, there are people stronger then me, but i’m the strongest.” it doesn’t make any scene, right? and who are these “others” you talk about? if they are “cheesily overpowered” and goku is not, then they could beat goku.

        we have gone through this Dreager, will power is NOT a defense against omnipotence. like Archangel said, who would win, Goku or your God?

        you keep saying goku is unbeatable, when he has been beaten.

        Using http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Goku, I have:
        Yamcha defeats Goku
        Jackie Chun defeats Goku
        General Tao defeats Goku
        Tien defeats Goku 5.Tambourine defeats Goku
        King Piccolo defeats Goku
        Android 19 defeats Goku
        Cell defeats Goku
        Beerus defeats Goku
        Beerus defeats Goku
        Possible defeats
        1. Vegeta defeating Goku during the invasion of earth, before interference by remaining Z-fighters.

        Intentionally omitted from the 70-10 record
        Goku (Super Saiyan) vs. Android 20 (Nightmare Sequence) Goku (Super Saiyan) vs. Future Trunks (Super Saiyan) Goku vs. Piccolo (Fused with Nail) and Gohan Goku (Full-Power Super Saiyan) vs. Gohan (Full-Power Super Saiyan)

        let me ask you a new question. if i could 100% defeat goku, i was immune to all of his attacks, and i could kill him with a touch, i was much faster than him, and i could beat him with no problem, could i beat goku?

      • So you’re asking if hypothetically you could beat Goku…then could you beat Goku? That doesn’t really work. As for Goku, he is the strongest Saiyan who has ever lived. Rock giants crumble under the blow of the mighty mole man. I fear these opponents will be as obliging! Goku has lost in the past, but he always gets stronger. He’ll never lose to the same opponent twice.

      • what i’m saying, is that if i had the power to crush goku, could i beat him?

      • well, it would always be yes. so if you were omnipotent you could beat goku, right?

      • I don’t think so. That’s still not enough. How would you compensate for his battle experience and array of energy attacks?

      • I think you’ve already linked that one though. Being all powerful is great, but it’s still no defense against Goku’s punishing attacks. He’ll still be able to clean TOAA’s clock. He’s extremely fast after all.

      • well, goku may be able to clean toaa’s clock(it’s quite dusty) but what you say makes no sense. do you know what all-powerful means? almost the same as omnipotent.

        so who would win, goku or your all-powerful God?

      • Sure, but being all powerful doesn’t necessarily mean you can beat Goku. Post a scan of TOAA punching through a mountain, I’ll wait.

      • Nah, that’s not as impressive as punching a rock. We need a power feat for the guy. Where did I say Goku could destroy an omniverse?

      • wot. punching a ROCK is more impressive then creating a MULTIVERSE. it takes more power to make something bigger, and a multiverse is bigger than a rock. it takes more power to create something than it takes to destroy something.

        or going by your logic, goku has never destroyed an atom, but humans have, so a human could kick gokus butt.

        and you keep saying that goku is an omniverse buster.

      • Yes. Destroying one is one thing, but creating is certainly another. It’s just not as combat applicable as destroying a rock. Also Destroying a rock>>>>an atom.

        Name a time. I’m pretty sure I haven’t said he could destroy an omniverse, but he can beat people who are omniverse busters. It’s a small but important distinction.

      • anyone can end a life, but very few people can create one(not birth, i mean like *poof*). and destroying an atom>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying a rock. it takes a ton of power to destroy an atom.

        also gaslighting.

      • Destroying a rock is still a lot more impressive though since atoms are so small. Put it this way, anyone can build a city, but it’s extremely difficult to destroy one.

      • Destroying a rock will still help a lot more in a fight though. As for a city, can a normal guy do it without a bomb though? Show me a scan of TOAA destroying even a bus and that’ll help his case. I can create a Cheese Omelette right now, but that doesn’t mean I can destroy a ball of steel.

      • your god dreager! franklin richards as a child was creating and destroying universes in his bed! with the mind locks on! and now he is an adult, and remove the mind locks. or pre Pre Retconned Beyonder/ MM! or The Beyonders! all of those people(or aliens) could beat goku, and all of them are below TOAA.

        and you can make a cheese sandwich or whatever, but you can also destroy it.

        and when you split an atom it releases a ton of energy. what would punching a rock do?

      • Sure, but think how long it would take to destroy the Cheese sandwich compared to actually eating it. Franklin is good and all, but what makes you think he’s weaker than TOAA? I’d consider him to be stronger personally, same with Beyonder. As for punching rock, it’s a good way to inflate one’s ego and prove your strength to others. Trust me, it’s always the right option.

      • one word: flamethrower. or tank. or rail gun. or .50 BMG.

        Like DarkLK said(i think): Restoring a multiverse is a multiveral feat. and goku has nothing like that

      • funny thing, in Texas you can buy a flamethrower. legally 🙂

        creating a multiverse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying a solar system.