One Above All vs Goku


One Above All

One Above All has some pretty “awesome” power, but in the end he’s not quite a match for Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha Wave and it does some pretty heavy duty damage. It’s not something you want to mess with. Goku has beaten guys much stronger than the One Above All and lived to tell about it. Goku wins.

Fanfic version below

Cosmic vs Saiyan!

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1,118 thoughts on “One Above All vs Goku

      • Well, Bass blew up an island just by powering up and that was without trying. If we assume that he only used .001% of his power to do so..the possibilities are endless. He got so many super forms and FTL feats that we can’t even begin to understand his true power

      • Actually, the possibilities aren’t endless because you provided an end to his power.
        100 divided by 0.001 is equal to 100,000.

        Does that mean Bass can only destroy 100,000 islands?
        If so, where did you even get that number from?
        If he’s powering up, doesn’t it mean he gets a greater INCREASE in power, thus meaning it is higher than that?
        Why are we scaling from that one feat when there are several that are better than that one?
        Why did you chose that one above his greater ones?

        I have other questions that I want to ask, but these are the more important ones.

      • Well, the problem is that we just don’t know. Bass may not have had to use any of his power to destroy the island since it was just from powering up. The .01 seconds thing was a speed feat that happened towards the beginning of the series as mentioned by Protoman. The .01 I used here was just a purely hypothetical number.
        I like pulling out lower feats once in a while to get the ball rolling before scaling up. We could have started out with a better feat of course, but this buys a little more time for us to really examine it through and through.

      • This version of Eternity became the embodiment of the Omniverse.

        And you got owned again because you can’t powerscale and island buster to omniverse level.

      • hahahahahaahahahahaahah! sorry its so funny how you think Goku would win agent someone who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. and is the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse. and His powers are unlimited, incalculable and immeasurable.

        The One-Above-All is also Omnipresent which means that there exists only one, and in all realities at once.
        people with more than infinite power get pwned by him.

      • I accept your apology. TOAA is all hype and while his powers are incalculable and immeasureable…it’s because he doesn’t have powers

      • ha! no powers? well lets see, he created the entire marvel universe, he revived Ben Grimm after he was killed, it was said he has more power than everyone combined, he restored earth 616 after is was atomized, he just gave peter Parker all the knowledge on earth, and i could go on on on.

      • all hype? oh yeah guys! God is all hype! ha ha ha! you know the guy who made everything? hype! ha ha ha!

  1. Yes. And also, becoming the Omniverse itself isn’t a good feat? Lol no. Your wrong again. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would literally need to kill everyone in it in order to destroy Eternity.

    Where’s the powerscaling from island to Omniverse level? You fail again as you can’t post scans to do that.

  2. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would have to destroy everything and every single being in existence to beat this version of Eternity.

    Show the powerscaling already.

    • I dunno about that. TOAA would still be conscious so just kicking and punching the air would hurt him.

      Well, Bass blew up a Black Hole once and he’s been shown to be pretty strong through the years. I’m confident that he could destroy a lot more when we consider all of the experience and level ups that he’s gotten. Hubstyle, Beast Out, Dark Mode…Bass is loaded with strength and quite frankly, I think we’ve only seen a mere glimmer of what he can do. Beyonder can destroy multiverses and he’s weaker than Goku who is weaker than Megaman who is weaker than Bass. Ergo, Bass is the strongest being in all of media and that’s quite possibly the scariest part of all

    • They’ve never been given the chance. That’s like saying that I couldn’t eat 2 Cheeseburgers now because I’ve never done it before. LT is too slow to land a hit

      • he can’t move at all. like not even the atoms move. his blood doesn’t move. his heart doesn’t beat. can he fight like that?

      • Sure, his power level doesn’t come from any of that. It’s his spirit energy and he can always summon it up at will. Then everyone dies

      • oh my gosh. goku can’t live without his heart pumping, or his blood moving. and how would goku hold up to superman? deathbattle said superman would win. and superman destroyed a solar system with a SNEEZE.

      • Whoa there, you don’t want to bring up Death Battle. That just adds more evidence to Goku winning. Goku’s heart is pumping and his blood will be moving thanks to his ki so I think he’s good. Lets not go and underestimate Goku here. He’s faster and stronger than good ole Supes

      • so how does goku hold up to that? i’m trying to see how far you will go to say goku would win.

      • Goku would hold up really well. He is the Saiyan of legend after all. Superman could sneeze, but Goku would just power up and the wind would blow away Superman’s germs.

      • That wouldn’t make sense though. Goku doesn’t need to move to use ki. Is the hypothetical that Goku is already dead, but his corpse is being placed in a fight?

  3. The One-Above-All is the prevalent memetic name for the supreme God of the fictional Marvel Comics mythology.

    [edit] Publication history

    The title “One-Above-All” itself was coined in Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), written by Steve Englehart, and the entity visibly manifested in Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004).

    The entity appears in The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007).

    [edit] Fictional character biography

    During an encounter with the mystic hero and Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange, the cosmic entity Eternity tells Strange: “I and my brother, Death, comprise all of your reality, mystic! Neither he nor I are God, for God rules all realities!”

    When the pregnant Susan Storm feared for her husband’s likely death at the hands of the “all-powerful” Silver Surfer, Uatu the Watcher told her that there was only one being that was truly “all-powerful”, and that “His only weapon…is love!”

    Doctor Strange, after being bitten by the vampire Dracula, apparently invokes this entity in desperation: “In the name of the Tetragrammaton, Jehovah! O Great Unmanifest, hear my plea!” which called upon holy power in the form of a crucifix strong enough to cure both himself and Wong of vampirism and seemingly destroy Dracula himself, later calling upon this power once again to purge and slay the N’Garai-empowered Shadowqueen. Strange, after surviving a fierce battle with the Asgardian trickster Loki, sees Thor and states: “And yet, some omnipotent power has so arranged the universe that good must always prevail! For every mighty villain, there is a mightier hero! For every menacing enemy of mankind, there is a fighting Avenger!” In a confrontation with the demonic Chthon in his own realm, Strange, though very nearly succumbing to Chthon’s darkness, was saved by his faith in “something far subtler and far more majestic than the Great Shadow.”

    While confronting the vampire Dracula, the angel Janus has made mention to a higher “Master” he serves: “But now you are closer than ever to spreading a new reign of terror across this Earth – and that my Master will not allow! For it has been decreed only He shall stand over this world. None but He!” When Dracula at long last manages to seemingly slay Janus after a fierce battle, Janus tells him, “It isn’t from Hell I come from, Dracula. There is another side which fights this endless battle between good and evil…and it is that side which will be victorius. For, I have seen the future…and I know…I know…I know…” subsequently releasing his spirit to be apparently absorbed by Domini’s portrait of Christ, with Christ’s eyes shining with the same heavenly light Janus did, causing Dracula to at long last know what power he had truly been fighting all this time.

    In ancient times, to punish the people of Gehenna for worshiping the savage Annunaki deity Ba’al through ritualistic human sacrifice, the Hand of God, empowered by “unbreakable steel and divine might”, is sent to destroy Ba’al. In recent times the anti-hero Wolverine, after directly praying for aid, appears to be possessed by the Hand of God’s spirit, and slays the restored Ba’al. An enemy of Wolverine, the genius-level Gorgon, devised a mathematical formula at the age of thirteen that proves, beyond all doubt, the existence of God.

    In the aftermath of the Infinity Gauntlet crossover series, during the trial of Adam Warlock, the Living Tribunal states: “I represent forces that dwarf even your might. My authority comes from on high.”

    The Cosmic Cube Kubik, on a tour displaying various higher powers to Kosmos, states: “The most supreme power that can be comprehended, the Living Tribunal exists in all multiverses simultaneously, always prepared to enact judgment. Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare imagine.”

    When Thor once compared himself and Odin to various other gods, abstract entities, and cosmic beings in terms of power, he notes: “And ’tis said that a being, called the Living Tribunal—the final judge—hath the power to enforce his will ‘pon any cosmos he doth judge! And ’tis said his power is supreme in all the Multiverse. Even I, son of one of the mightiest of all gods, find it impossible to conceive of such levels of power! And ’tis a humbling thought to consider how much greater the Creator of all Universes must be than that of all of His creations combined!”

    When Jake Olsen pleaded for Odin to not send him back into Mephisto’s realm, Odin, after denying he himself was “God”, instead allows Olsen’s soul to ascend to a higher plane, responding: “Nay, mortal. There is a power far greater than mine – and it is to Him I commend thy spirit now. Let peace envelop thy being, mortal, for thou hast suffered enow.”

    The Eternal Thanos realizes he has been subtly manipulated by an unseen supreme power, whom he refers to as “the Almighty”, into destroying, and then recreating the universe without a fundamental flaw, initially caused by the resurrection of Wonder Man, that allowed characters to be resurrected quite easily and created an imbalance between life and death.

    The entity apparently appears before the superhero team the Fantastic Four when they visit Heaven to retrieve the soul of Ben Grimm, in the appearance of the Fantastic Four’s co-creatorJack Kirby.

    After a final confrontation with the brutal demoness Asteroth left Beta Ray Bill at the brink of death, a glowing man in white robes appears before him and heals him while assuring him that this would be a new beginning for his people and himself, subsequently claiming the souls of the decimated Korbinites and sending his own spirit into the body of a human.

    When Peter Parker’s (the alter ego of Spider-Man) Aunt May lies close to death, a seemingly all-knowing homeless man appears before Parker, and when Parker asks the entity about its identity, it states that he already knows the answer, and manifests in the resplendent form depicted above. Unfortunately, even this encounter with “God” was not enough to truly sway Peter from his inner anguish, and out of pure desperation, he and Mary Jane give up their marriage to the demon Mephisto (who claims that their marriage was made holy in “the eyes of He who I hate most” and that thus erasing it would be a triumph beyond all others for him).

    The gods of Zenn-La refer to a First Mover who ignited the fire cosmic and by its light brought “orbit, organization, and order” to the universe from a beginning of primal chaos, and who extrapolated the End Times being heralded by the Nil Star. As the alien deity Glory threatened to absorb and destroy Thor during the events of Chaos War, Donald Blake and Becca Steinhardt were able to, through a united prayer, call out to the power of the “creator of all men and gods” that resided within “each and every one” of humanity, power sufficient to destroy Glory himself from within.

    [edit] References

    ^ Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four #72 (1968)
    ^ Religious Affiliation of the Watcher, Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #14
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #44
    ^ Strange Tales #123 (1964), Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange (vol. 3) #90
    ^ Tomb of Dracula #52 (Dec. 1977)
    ^ Wolverine: Volume 2 #13-16
    ^ Marvel Appendix: Ba’al and Hand of God
    ^ Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #4
    ^ Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 (Feb. 1992), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four Annual #23 (1990), Marvel Comics
    ^ The Mighty Thor Annual #14 (1989), Marvel Comics
    ^ Thor Annual 2000, 2000, Marvel Comics
    ^ Marvel: The End #1 – 6 (May – Aug. 2003)
    ^ Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004)
    ^ Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #6, Marvel Comics
    ^ The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007)
    ^ “One More Day” — Amazing Spider-Man #544; Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24; The Sensational Spider-Man #41 and Amazing Spider-Man #545 (Oct. 2007 – Jan. 2008), Marvel Comics
    ^ Chaos War: Chaos King #1
    ^ Chaos War: Thor #2, Marvel Comics

    • Alright guys, you might get a kick out of this :), because I have some information that might prove the One Above All is faster than Goku, and could also proves that Eternity, the Living Tribunal, and the Beyonder are faster as well. It may be a stretch, but I am willing to listen to any logical contradictions based on information you have gathered.

      All of the information I have obtained relate to the information given to us on their physiology and how it provides them an extra layer of defense against physical AND metaphysical attacks (with the latter being to some extent).

      • Trust me, you’re not gonna find anything on that. TOAA is just barely faster than Stan Lee…if he is at all. That’s probably up for debate.

      • @Archangel Agreed! I have a theory that TOAA, the Presence, Man of Miracles, and all other omnipotent beings could be one, true omnipotent being with different faces.

      • Well, here’s where thing like that can be proven false (if only for the other three). It all starts with dimensions.

        In spite of the great speed of characters like Goku and Bass, they still must abide by the fundamental forces that govern their world. Though there are some attributes offered and denied to other universes (such as ki, the force, cosmic energy, and the speed force), most of them work in tandem with the conceptual forces of space, matter, gravity, and (most importantly) time.
        As one might imagine, seen as how both the Dragon Ball and the Megaman Manga series are involved with their version of planet Earth, they reside on a 3-dimensional reality, one in which the dimensions are length, width, and depth.

        *(This seems boring at first, but it’ll get more interesting)*

        Basically, because of their physiology and being residents of an existential world of 3-dimensions, they’re beings that are forced to abide by the laws of linear space time.
        However, their are few being that can surpass this limit in space-time. The one most notable for doing so is Flash, due to his connection with the speed force. Via his immense speed, he was capable of transcending the time barrier and traveled to another timeline.
        Unfortunately, characters like Goku and Bass are puppets to time due to their realized state. Regardless of what actions they take in their timeline, they only assist the flow of time rather than pitting against it. Therefore, regardless of how fast they are in their realities, they will still be slower than time.

        So…what does this have to do with Goku being slower than the Living Tribunal? Well, that’s where things get interesting.

        Where Goku and Bass are restricted by time, many of the cosmic entities in marvel are not.
        As shown here, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Master Order, and Master Chaos are in realm beyond time and space. More specifically, in a “16th-dimensional domain at the juncture of Multiversal super-space”.

        http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/00/The_Living_Tribunal_in_16-dimensional_space.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141212154547

        What better a place for space deities to hang out 🙂
        This provides a little foresight on why so many cosmic entities are immortal.

        For a 3-dimensional entity, one added dimension in their domain wouldn’t be too much to handle. Though, once that domain receives a FIFTH dimension, that’s where you see the difference. With this added dimension, your perception of anything greater than 3-dimensions is very confused and the environment itself would feel like hell. The object or person you are looking at would be beyond your comprehension, as a 3-dimensional subject is beyond that of a 2-dimensional entity’s perception and effectiveness. In addition to that, they don’t follow the same laws as Goku and Bass do. They are beyond linear time and 3-D distance, as well as the concepts of speed.
        Therefore, from a lower-dimensional viewpoint, they have much greater speed.

        That being said, it surprises me how thorough the writers were with these stories when a great majority of them were created before Dragon Ball first aired and before Megaman got his first game. The narration practically explains everything that’s going on to make sure readers aren’t misinterpreting the events incorrectly. Really puts into perspective the amount of changes employed as time went on.

      • So, your whole argument comes down to the whole dimensions thing. I still say that a good 3D character can take out anyone. There’s a reason why all of these cosmic dudes ultimately decide to become 3D fighters. It’s because 3D is the way to play and has the best physical action. Going to the 16th dimension may be a nice place to hang out, but it’s not somewhere to fight. Theoretical speed from this can be cool, but Goku still has all of the real feats so he’s much faster than TOAA. Time can do what it can to stop him, but it can’t nullify his speed. TOAA can try to move beyond time, but Goku will already be there.

      • Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you’re comment DarkLK.
        I was responding to the Dreager1’s with the introduction.

      • as you where saying, TOAA is not bound my logic ether. he can make something he can’t lift and then lift it. he can take away his powers so he has no powers but still have powers. and i never noticed the LT two or 3 faces

      • They will if they are facing off against foes who can.

        Also, the whole dimensions thing is partially due to my newly acquired interest in quantum physics.

        Hooray for learning!

  4. I don’t know why you are so bent-out-of-shape over the One-Above-All.
    He’s a good guy.
    No…Actually, he’s a GREAT guy. This was especially evident during his encounter with Peter Parker.

    He was kind enough to talk to him and assist him in his life struggles.
    He eased his tension over Aunt May’s life threatening condition.
    He healed his hands when he punched a dumpster out of frustration.
    He treated him to a meal.
    He took him on a journey through time to explain suffering.
    He even laid bare the countless innocent souls Peter saved as Spider-man to remind him of his righteousness. He reminded him of the lives he changed, the people he saved, and hearts he inspired for years.

    I understand if you’re not convinced that the One-Above-All is the all-powerful character of Marvel, but I just don’t see why. Marvel is obviously trying to make it evident that he is the mighty creator of the Multiverse. The Heart of the Universe, the encounter with Peter, his discussion with the Fantastic Four in Heaven, his incorporeal form, his love for all of the Multiverse’s inhabitants, and his MANY subtle references seem to make his status reasonable.
    I mean, why WOULDN’T you like him? He’s super powerful AND he’s a super cool guy.
    Do you have something against the One-Above-All?

    People have thrown a lot of words at you, but I actually want to “talk” in order to understand.

    *As a side note, the ability to create anything is an OP power to have in a fight B) *

    • Eh, I don’t dislike TOAA. He is a nice guy as you’ve mentioned and I do like that he talks such a good game. It shows that he still has some humanity left in him. It’s great that he’s a man of the people and I could picture him saying “Feel the Bern” as he supports the working class. That being said, he’s a man who’s all talk and for that kind of character I prefer to see some arrogance and overconfidence in the mix. TOAA just doesn’t play his cards all that well in that regard. If you’re going to be a nice guy, then you’ve gotta do something. If you’re gonna be more antagonistic and mean, then you’ve also gotta do something. He makes everyone else do the work.

      I don’t particularly like TOAA, but I do find him to be funny. I have nothing against the guy. I find him to be extremely weak, that’s all.

      I don’t think creating things is a great thing to have though. You can make swords and stuff, but destructive abilities are always a whole lot more useful to have.

      • C’mon Dreager1. Use your head 🙂
        What kind of omnipotent creator/father would he be if he had to solve ALL of the problems his children have?
        Moreover, why would he want to physically harm the very children he created and loves with his own power? I think he’d look like a pretty bad father. lol

        For instance, TOAA came to Peter because he was on the verge of a complete fallout that would result in him hanging up his mask. Can you imagine the MU without a Spider-man?
        I can. It’s bad 😦
        That’s why he stepped in. One of his most heroic and pure heroes was in a state of conflict that could mean his end. He needed to step in to make sure his place in the universe was preserved. If he didn’t, there was a strong possibility that those thousands of people he showed peter would be somewhere else.

        Either way, is it really safe to assume the One-Above-All is weak? I mean, if the guy can create beings capable of destroying universes, why wouldn’t he be able to enhance his OWN powers to an even higher degree.
        If I had omnipotence, I’d try my hand in that.

        As for the whole creation thing, you’re thinking too small.
        You need to be more imaginative dude!
        With that kind of power, you can manifest ANYTHING you want into reality.

        You could create a barrage of supernovas. (*In case you didn’t know, the strongest supernova destroyed a galaxy.)

        You could create white holes. (*In case you didn’t know this too, white holes are singularities that expel vast energy indefinitely.)

        You could create an impenetrable force field that is skin tight around your body.

        You could create impenetrable armor on your body capable of flying faster than the speed.

        With creation of that magnitude, the possibilities are endless.
        You can remake your physical body with infinite strength, speed, reflexes, stamina, and superpowers in general.
        If you can make a reality with infinite layers, infinity shouldn’t be an obstacle for you.
        THINK ABOUT IT!
        You could recreate a composite body for yourself with the Kamehameha, Double Vanishing World, and Rasengan multiplied by 1,000,000!

        Why should creation be limited to outside one’s body? Why can’t one use the power of creation more…well…creatively? With experience, it seems like a cool idea one would have.

      • …A…are…are we still talking about my comment on the power of creation and TOAA?

      • Yes, or at least I think so. All right, well here’s the rest of the response to the original comment.

        Well, it’s safe to assume that TOAA is weak. He’s basically an old man who can fly and create stuff. Look, I like TOAA as much as the next guy, but I just wish he could at least shave off 20 years and be given a baseball bat someday. That would help a lot. We can theorize about how he can maybe use his powers to increase his own abilities, but it’s never been shown so I have to assume that he just can’t do that. It’s not exactly in the guy’s wheelhouse.

        Creation is all well and good, but give me a cool anime sword and some decent speed or strength any day. I’d just speedblitz the guy before any of those created threats could do much. I wouldn’t mind having creation abilities if I was in a world of ordinary people though. I could materialize a slice of pizza every morning and dissolve the fat as I eat. It would be pretty gnarly.

      • Ohohohohohohooooooo….
        You are soooooo wrong.

        Yes, the one above all is old, but he is most certainly not a man or mortal. His body is incorporeal and immortal. It has no definitive shape or gender. He can alter it into whatever he wants. Be it and old man, an all-encompassing cyclone of energy, a white specter, or Jack Kirby.
        You call yourself an expert on TOAA, yet you still think he’s an old man. Again, TOAA chose that form in order to blend in with the crowd. He can be whatever he wants to be. The artist just decided to go with that form in order to further address what I’ve been telling you. You shouldn’t rely so heavily of one’s outward appearance in order to figure out how powerful they are. With all the anime you watch, I thought you would know that.
        Besides, if we can assume TOAA cannot enhance his powers, then we can just as easily say Cell couldn’t destroy a solar system, seen as how he never pulled it off.

        Anyway, why can’t TOAA enhance his own abilities? If he can create a multiverse of superpowered beings, enhancing his own powers would be a breeze. In fact, characters capable of enhancing the powers of others are just as capable of enhancing their own. Seen as how TOAA’s physiology relieves him of mortal limitations, he should be able to enhance his body with even greater ease.

        Dude, if you have the power of creation, you can create an entire army of characters with strength, speed, and sword skills. Better yet, you could give yourself indestructible armor that turns you into a one man army. Better still, you could recreate your body to be stronger and faster than anything or anyone.
        What idiot with the power to create an invincible body for themselves waits to do it while in combat? If I had that power, I would recreate my body with infinite…EVERYTHING and make it my definitive body all the time.

        Yet, you would belittle your capabilities to materializing pizza when you could recreate yourself as the most devastating force in existence.
        Like I said before, you think too small.
        You have the power of creation.
        BE CREATIVE!!!

        Also…Heart of the Universe…
        Fraction of the One-Above-All’s power…
        It dominated every hero and villain.

        …Just say’n. :/

      • The One Above All has never shown that he was anything but an old man. I’m just stating the facts here. He can alter his shape and turn incorporal, but there’s a reason why we’ve never seen him turn into Tom Cruise. It’s simply beyond his wheelhouse. If he could turn into a more youthful version of himself, that would help exponentially in his blog fights.

        I am the world’s leading expert on TOAA to be honest. I’ve blogged about him than quite possibly anyone else in existence. I have to use his outward appearance to judge him because it’s all that we have to go on at this point. I don’t want to do that….he just doesn’t even give me a choice. The Cell analogy doesn’t work because we’ve seen Cell fight and know what he can do. With TOAA, it’s all just heresay and at this point, it feels like that’s always the case with him. Time and time again…it’s just empty words and bluffs from the guy. Just because he should be able to do something doesn’t mean that he actually can do it.

        I’d rather give myself pizza if I had such power. Imagine eating all that you ever wanted without having to get up from bed. I’d just take naps and eat all day for the rest of my life. I can picture a nice pepperoni slice right now and it feels glorious. The flavors all blend into one incredible dish. Honestly, I get the chills just thinking about it!

      • Yes he has.
        He’s had several appearances posing as different beings each time. One in which he took the appearance of a young man/woman. It obviously isn’t beyond his willpower to become whatever he wants to be.
        Besides, if he can comprehend infinity, his mind must be stronger than most.

        No your not.
        If you were, you would know the TOAA has had more visual appearances than just that one.
        We already know a fraction of his might had the power to destroy realities when we learned of the Heart of Creation. Again, what kind of omnipotent father would he be if he had to step in EVERY time his children had a problem?
        Do you even know how many appearances he’s had?

        You’re thinking too small again.
        If I had the power of creation, I would create a superpower that would rival all others and give it to myself. In conjunction with that, I would recreate my body with infinite speed, stamina, strength, energy projection, regeneration, and automatic reflexes for battles.
        With creation of that magnitude, I could recreate my self as the strongest being to ever exist.

      • Show me a scan of him being a young man/woman.

        TOAA has had a few interesting visual appearances, but they never seem to help him in the long run. The Heart of the Universe is great and all, but I want to see TOAA grab a gun and show us how to use it. He needs to get on offense and stat! Right now he’s just taking too long to do anything.

        I think you’re taking the power too seriously. Why would you want all of those abilities in everyday life? Unlimited pizza would be something that I could use to brag with at work and it could help me study really well when necessary. Why be the strongest when you can be the coolest?

      • geez guys! i go for one week to program and boom! i get spammed with stuff! and TOAA is just infinitely powerful. think! you could remake time and space how you like it. scarlett johansson could be your girlfriend!

      • Ask and you shall receive:

        The Heart of the Universe proves he is powerful because it is HIS power synthesized into an energy conduit that rivaled all other beings in reality. It was already established in Marvel: The End. Once again, he intervened to ensure all life was balanced.
        Again, what kind of omnipotent father would he be if he had to step in EVERY time his children face a problem? If one plans to characterize God, one needs to do it right.

        So…you don’t deny the fact that you could become invincible with the power of creation. Look, I’m just stating the facts here. You are severely underestimating creation. If a fictional character has the power to manifest anything into existence along with great wisdom of reality, they’re practically unbeatable.
        In response to your other question, I’ll ask you a question…
        Why can’t you be both? 😉

        Also, this: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Omnipotence

      • Fair enough, but he and she still appears to be incorporeal at that point. We need TOAA to be physical so he can have better battle potential in hand to hand fights. TOAA shouldn’t step in every time, just enough to prove that he can fight. I’d settle for once a month or even once a year. Not, once every 60+ years.

        I mean, you could be both, but why would you want to be invincible? Life doesn’t really have a bunch of super villains knocking on the door. Pizza’s all you really need and you could use the second part for unlimited refills. Can’t decide on whether to have Pepsi or Mountain Dew? Now you can have both and 0 calories to boot. That sounds pretty awesome if you ask me.

        The power of omnipresence and omnipotence is great in concept, but it’s still no good in a fight. It’d like telepathy, mind control, time stop, and a few other abilities. They’re cool to think about, but on the blog you may as well be powerless if you have those. You need something more tangible.

      • Y’see, that’s what you fail to realize. A powerful being doesn’t always need to have the ability to punch someone out. Often times, they just need the power to effect the game itself in a way that is inconvenient to the opponent. Power like that usually helps one in a fight.
        Anyway, why would TOAA want to FIGHT in any matters pertaining to his children.

        I was speaking in a hypothetical sense. My point is that a fictional character capable of manifesting any idea into actuality is OP as heck.

        How are powers like time stop and telepathy bad in a fight? Few can transcend time and telepathy has more techniques than you realize. Powers don’t always have to be tangible in order to be powerful. If anything, their intangibility makes them greater than most powers. There is no visual indication of there being an attack and users can continue to develop them with practice.

        Also, the concept of omnipotence and omnipresence were developed before you were even born. They are used to describe something limitless.
        How exactly would you define omnipotence?

      • I realize the concept of it, but also acknowledge that it means the cosmic being has yet to prove himself. Altering the game is like cheating. It looks cool, but you end up losing in the end anyway. TOAA should throw a punch at Spider-Man to remind him how noble the hero once was. He should wrestle Iron-Man to the ground to remind him that he shouldn’t drink too much beer. Etc. He could be a good father figure who isn’t afraid to lay down the law once in a while.

        Well, Telepathy is all about will power. The way I see it, it’ll only be effective on someone you could have defeated normally. If the opponent is too powerful for you physically, then it’s not going to work anyway. Effectively the same thing on time stop.

        I’d say that Omnipotence is being everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Effectively it’s an instant loss unless you can turn off that power and have something else to back it up. Like an energy sword or something.

      • If he did that, then he wouldn’t make a good God now would he?

        Also, will power doesn’t translate into physical power. A character can be both powerful and weak willed. Strengthening your body may assist your mind in some categories, but only by being able to directly strengthen your mental resistance can you resist mind control.
        In actuality a character needs to have training against such attacks. They need to have experience against telepathy and must develop a defense against it. Even then, all telepaths do not have the same level of expertise.
        Some can control the minds of multiple targets.
        Some can even effect an entire planet.
        Basically, no matter how strong you make your body, you can only strengthen your mind against telepathy with experience. Just because your offensive muscles get stronger doesn’t mean your mind will go in the same direction. Your mind is still the same unless you enhance in some way.

        …You just described omnipresence.
        Omnipotence means you have no limit to you power, not your location.

      • He could still be a good meta person. Put it this way, say you are always telling everyone that they should eat Domino’s pizza, but you don’t because you like Papa Johns…does that make you a bad person? Beating up his creations would be a nice sign of power, it wouldn’t make TOAA look bad.

        Will power is basically physical power. I never bought into the whole weak will thing. If you’re really strong, then your mind is also really strong. Someone like Goku or Superman would be impervious to any kind of mental attack.

        Whoops. Well, yeah Omnipotence means you can do just about anything. Snap your fingers and you can blow everything up

      • Technically, it would.
        Y’see, God chooses not to interfere directly with matters that concern us because he knows our struggles are what make us stronger. TOAA refuses to interfere unless the situation is dire because he wants his creations to still have the power to evolve and learn.
        Besides, if he wants to invoke his wrath, he can just hit’em with some good-o’l-fashion karma right?

        No it’s not.
        Goku and Superman are training their bodies to enhance their fighting physique. In order to strengthen their minds, they need to spend time focusing on that same category.
        Willpower and regular power are two different things. A character has never developed the ability to resist telepathy by enhancing their physical power alone.

        Characters like Magneto and Doom are evidence of that.

      • That’s an optimistic way of looking at it though. It could just be as my original hypothesis stated. TOAA is scared. He may know how to create, but he doesn’t know how to fight. That’s why he doesn’t want to challenge these guys, he knows that he would get schooled and sent back home by Wolverine and Spider-Man. Maybe he knows that he can’t beat them and that’s why he has to resort to threats and hiding in the power cosmic.

        I still never bought into that. If you’re tough physically then you’re also tough mentally. Nobody’s going to be able to kick you around if you don’t want to be kicked. It just makes sense. For example, Jean Grey can try to mentally attack Strawhat Luffy all she wants, but he’ll just break free with his physical power and take her down.

      • That doesn’t seem plausible at all.
        If that were the case, then he wouldn’t be able to confront Thanos and Adam Warlock? Both of them could kick Wolverine to the curb.
        Why was he brave enough to enter the battlefield Beta Ray Bill was beaten in and save him Asteroth?
        Do you have any basis for this wild conspiracy theory? Because you’ve made a lot of assumptions without any means to back them up.
        On a lighter note, I thought we already established creation was an OP power to have.

        Dude, telepathic resistance isn’t something that can be achieved that easily. You need to train your mind to resist mental attacks, not just your offensive muscles.
        Blocking telepathic control with physical attacks makes no sense. No character has ever done without training their psyche to resist mental attacks mentally. You can’t block an attack that’s intangible unless you have trained your mind to resist it or you have some sort of metaphysical defense.
        It’s an idea that’s been verified by numerous writers for generations.

      • Well, it’s possible that these guys are also buying into the hype. They haven’t called TOAA’s bluff because nobody else has. It’s like a mob mentality, you just believe the guy at the front. Hercule from DBZ exploits this for profit and TOAA does as well, just to a less exaggerated degree. My basis for this is that TOAA has never thrown a single punch. Marvel has been around for decades and yet TOAA has never directly attacked someone. That is extremely suspicious if you ask me. Just think about it….kinda sketchy eh? I’d say that it’s very plausible. That being said, he is meant to have earned his title in the comics so alternately you can say that he is the strongest in universe. He just falls all the way to the bottom once you leave it.

        We established that in our ordinary world the power of creation would be awesome. I’d like to have unlimited pizza and soft drinks as much as the next senior citizen, but in a fighting fictional world then it’s not going to cut it. You want a more physical power. I’d recommend something like what Kirito has got. Super Speed and strength all rolled into one with a nice healing factor to round it all out. Now there’s a character who has got it made!

        I just can’t get on board with that. How I see it, if you are physically stronger than the person is mentally strong, then you’ve got the edge. I’d use another pizza example but I don’t want to be repetitive. Say Professor Xavier tried to paralyze Superman mentally so he could be safe. In my head canon, Superman just grins and flexes his muscles. The power is too much and Xavier’s grip on him is released. That’s basically how I picture it going. If you’re strong enough, then you have nothing to fear from telepathic abilities. It’s still good of course for mind controlling people who are weaker than you, but that’s about it.

      • If that’s the case, can we assume God is weak too?

        Also, TOAA could just make himself stronger by CREATING a physical body with infinite power his incorporeal body can inhabit. Seen as how he’s omniscience, he could perceive what his opponent can do and give the body defense against that. Why should unlimited creation be limited. If he can create infinity, it shouldn’t be a problem.

        That’s not how willpower works at all.
        Your head canon makes no sense at all.
        How would making your offensive muscles make you mentally stronger. It makes more sense to actually train your mind instead of your body.
        Making yourself physically stronger does not make you strong enough to resist mental attacks. From the sound of it, I don’t think you understand willpower at all. Those concepts were created decades ago.
        Do you have anything to prove a physically weak character can’t have willpower? Because I can list SEVERAL weak characters who can, along with several strong characters who can’t.
        In fact, Superman HAS been placed under telepathic attack SEVERAL TIMES!

        See here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/superman-165/superman-s-mental-stregnth-1640607/

      • The one in the comics? That would basically be TOAA so then absolutely. In fiction we can’t make any assumptions of strength without proof. In effect, it’s like guilty until proven innocence as opposed to the other way around. TOAA can’t just make himself super strong by will, it would be too tricky for him. At the most he could just make himself invincible, but he’d likely run into the same exact problems again as there would be no proof. The reason unlimited creation is limited is because everything has limits. Some comics and anime may try to suggest that their characters don’t have limitations, but we know that this cannot be correct. It’s simply not possible. Bass is the closest thing to infinite and even he isn’t at that level.

        My head canon is a little tricky, but think of it this way. In many shows and comics, characters break out of mind control with the power of friendship. Usually it’s a really cheesy moment, but it can be played seriously as well. In effect, the characters just shrugs off the mind control. They do it with a burst of emotion and I’m just saying that you can do it physically as well. If you’re stronger than your opponent, then you simply won’t be affected. Weak characters can break free as well of course with the power of friendship and their own telepathic abilities, but essentially anyone can. It’s hard to find evidence of a weak willed person breaking free since the whole point is usually for shock value to be included. All of the Superman scenes fall in that category.

        My one example comes from one of the greatest scenes in all of media history, Vegeta breaks free from Babidi’s control.

        He basically just powers up and flexes until he’s able to shatter it. It’s one of the most powerful moments in television and the scene gives everyone the chills whenever it’s played.

      • To name a few WERE successful in controlling Superman’s mind: Maxwell Lord, the Insect Queen, Martian Manhunter, Eclipso, and Poison Ivy pulled it off.

        Just say’n…

      • You probably already know my response to that, but I’ll go along with it anyway. Those instances were all filled with plot hax. None of them could ever hope to control Superman. His mind is far too sharp for that.

  5. *Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*….
    I’ve already established that Marvel: The End covered this. The Heart of the Universe IS the TOAA’s power (albeit a small fraction of it). Just use your scaling to multiply that by the amount of universes in the Marvel Multiverse and that’s how powerful he is.

    No, dude. You’re wrong in that regard.
    Willpower against mental attacks is something that is directly effected by your mental vitality not your physical vitality.
    Vegeta’s instance wasn’t due to his power. It was due to his obsession with beating Goku.
    He was capable of MENTALLY besting Babidi’s mind control (albeit barely) due to his one-track-minded goal of proving he is stronger than Goku.
    It was his overwhelming pride that saved him.
    It NOTHING to do with physical power. The only reason why he strained his aura and power was due to how mental stimuli provokes outward behavior. It was obviously torture on his psyche. It’s shown in multiple mediums!
    Besides, Babidi still managed to turn Vegeta into a monster. His powers work by using the evil sustained withing beings and using that to transform them into his pets. Why else do you think he didn’t try it on Goku. He has no evil Babidi can exploit.
    Vegeta didn’t comply due to his arrogance, his rivalry, and his inferiority complex.
    In addition to that, Babidi isn’t even a strong telepath. Anyone who relies on a magical object in order to take control of other beings can barely hold up to the stronger telepaths that can due it their SLEEP.
    I’m being serious…
    There are telepaths that can use their powers in their sleep.
    Sometimes they do it by accident!
    I bet he can’t even take control of a continental population with that useless trinket.

    Anyway, you do realize Goku has been subjected to mind control before right?

    • We can’t scale that because HOTU is more of a weapon than anything. It’d be like saying that Samus is SSS tier in Brawl because her Zero Laser is awesome. It’s just an attack/a weapon. Nothing more. We have to see more than that to make any reasonable assumptions. I still need to see him try and punch something.

      Willpower is totally affected by physical power. Vegeta’s efforts weren’t for show, nor were they purely from pain. He was physically nullifying the effects, which shows that he’s got the skills to pay the bills. Lets say it was just will power though, it doesn’t affect anything. It just goes to show that any strong fighter can break out if he/she wants too. Vegeta’s honor and pride serves him well, but so could the other characters as well. Throw in Spongebob Squarepants and his fortitude could come from something simple like “Hey, How are ya?” “Nice weather today” or it could be for a burger. Whatever the reason, that’s why I don’t put much stock in telepathy and those sort of abilities. I do prefer direct telepathy to using objects as well. It feels more real and on the level.

      Plot hax.

    • IT’S NOT….

      *Inhales deeply*….

      It’s not a weapon. It’s an energy source that is a part of TOAA. Thanos was able to use it because he was destined to do so.
      Even if it is a weapon, that doesn’t take away from the fact that it is a part of TOAA’s power.
      You can still scale from it.

      No, you don’t don’t understand willpower at all.
      Your defying a principle that has been verified and implemented for decades.
      Your like a guy denying the fact that world is round in spite of their being evidence and scientific explanations that support it.
      It WAS from pain. Just look at him convulsing on the ground as he struggles to break free.

      That excuse has no prevalence in this discussion.

      • We can’t scale from that. It’s not the same and what would be the point? So, TOAA in his all above power made a portion of his power tangible and then it could also mess with reality just as much as he could. Is that really any more impressive than his own abstract feats from the past? I don’t really think so, it’s just more of the same. What we need is a solid haymaker or at least a left hook. That would make quite the difference if you ask me and it would help him win the fight.

        There actually is a sub reddit for people who believe that the world is flat. That being said, telepathy on this scale isn’t even an ability that people can just look out and prove on their own so this example isn’t quite as extreme. I’m saying that it wasn’t all pain. The aura and powering up actually helped him break free because it’s important to use physical might as well. Just because a lot of people agree on the concept of telepathy, doesn’t mean that they actually know what they’re talking about. The mental aspect of it makes sense which is why everyone’s a little puzzled about this, but it just goes to show that you can’t win em all.

        There’s no other explanation for how Goku could be controlled at all. That’s just DB Super throwing nonsense at us again. Goku’s too strong for telekinesis or any telepathy ability. He’s too powerful!!

    • The Heart of the Universe gave Thanos physical and metaphysical power that surpassed EVERY being in Marvel effortlessly. He had power that could destroy universes via energy and physical attacks.
      If that is only a fraction of TOAA’s power, it definitely provides evidence.

      How dare you.
      Don’t act like you know better than the rest of the world.
      There are people around the globe who are FAR smarter than both of our brains combined, both in literature and other categories. There are also people who have been doing this longer than you and have developed far more competent concepts than the one’s you conceived. Most of them support my explanation.
      You don’t have any right to say you know better. Especially if you barely know about the character you downplay.

      Who said anything about Dragon Ball Super? 😉

      • Plz understand. It’s still not enough to make a judgment based on that. We need something a little more firm. Also, the HOTU was still pretty meta so it’s not a great feat. Again, show me a scan of TOAA throwing a punch and I think we can get somewhere.

        I’m not saying that I know better, but at least on par. Trust me, I’m an expert in so much stuff that it boggles the mind.

        Super’s just the most notable for nonsense happening so I assumed it was from there

      • You could easily see how much power it offered to both Thanos and Akhenaten in durability, strength, speed, and energy projection. If they were able to perform these feats using TOAA’s power, it’s safe to assume his full power is great.
        It is very easy to understand. TOAA took a fraction of his power and gave it to the universe. It’s not that hard to comprehend.
        We’ve seen characters from Dragon Ball and other mediums do it too. For instance, Goku gave some of his energy to a bird in order to heal it. The same thing was shown when the Z-Fighters gave their energy to Goku in order to help him defeat Broly.
        TOAA did the same thing. He was kind enough to give some of HIS omnipotent power to the universe in order to heal it and everyone who inhabited it.
        It IS enough to make a judgment.

        Nope, Goku was subjected to mental attacks before Super aired.
        He doesn’t usually face any foes with that ability so he never really bothered to learn how to defend against it. Goku has some weaknesses that can be exploited. All heroes eventually find something they can’t overcome. Luckily, there aren’t that many powerful telepathic individuals that’ll try taking him on.
        It’s fine to have some weaknesses like that. You just gotta cope with the fact that some characters aren’t perfect.

        The point is that your interpretation of willpower deviates from what it actually is. It spurns from mental vitality entirely.
        Everything you are saying goes against something irrefutable. You’re no different that the idiots claiming climate changes are null and void. Similarly to that instance, you’re denying a concept that has been implemented and confirmed for generations. If some of the greatest writers and philosophers of the world are on board with my explanation, why should your false interpretation even be taken seriously?

        However, what I’m more concerned with is the fact that you don’t know about the two instances where Goku shows his vulnerability to mind control in spite of boasting of your vast knowledge of the series. I’m humble enough to say that I’m not the most hardcore DBZ fan, but I still remember this.

      • It’s still not the same as actually using the power though. We need to see TOAA actually do something. I mean, Goku could easily give a portion of his power to someone and it would have the same effect. We still couldn’t really scale that though which is the issue. Once TOAA actually throws a mean punch, then it’ll mean more. As of now it still seems like he’s just an old man who can fly.
        Goku has no weaknesses. Not every character has a weakness. Take Thor, Bass, Naruto, Sasuke, Vegeta, etc. They’re just strong all around characters. The only way to beat them is to just be stronger and that’s really a tough feat to accomplish. Goku won’t be stopped by a mental attack because his power is simply too great. It’s like an ant challenging a Tiger.

        I can’t say that the professionals have it right this time. It’s not as if the philosophers had super human abilities so they could verify their theories. Also, remember that a lot of them thought that the world was flat. Just thought I should throw that in there. My interpretation should always be taken seriously because my track record speaks for itself. I’m in the top 30 Pokemon Go Sprint players worldwide. I made it to the top 10 in Draglade. I’ve been Silver Rank in Super Sm4sh every time I enter the season ranks and I do it in one clean shot. I’ve published over 10000 posts on this site and have been wrecking everyone in other sites like Factpile, Outskirts Battle Dome, and even the MVC Lounge. I do all of that before Breakfast!

        I’m a little concerned with that as well. Keep in mind that I didn’t watch/read Dragon Ball because I consider that series to be a bit of a stain in the franchise. I only stick to DBZ and everything after that. So, I’m one of the biggest DBZ fans of all time no question, but I won’t know about some events. Also, plot hax is very real so we have to factor that in. Remember when the manga tried to get us to believe that Mystic Gohan was possibly stronger than SSJ3 Goku? Luckily I never bought into that story

      • He did use the power. He used it fulfill the destiny he placed on Thanos to cure the cosmic cancer in the universe. Of course you can scale from it. You just need to look at the effect it had when it was use by Thanos. Like I said before, it was his power being used by someone else. It’s easier to scale in this instance because that power was used against Marvel’s finest heroes and villains.
        We could say the same for Goku if he did the same thing. If his ONLY achievement was taking some of his ki and giving it to the universe, which was then used to destroy all twelve universes and offer its user vast speed, strength, durability, and energy on a multiversal scale, we could assume Goku’s maximum potential is multversal in almost every aspect right?

        Why do you keep calling TOAA and old man?
        I have already told you that he can take whatever form he wishes. I even gave you scan of him as two different genders. He’s appeared as different being before hasn’t he?

        Why don’t they have it right?
        Aristotle confirmed the world’s roundness between 384 and 322 BC, LOOOOONG before the discovery of America. The whole debate over Earth’s true orientation was just an event sprung from people who were either seeking attention or lacking basic competence. The few people who suggested this idea were as unfamiliar with the world as you are with Arda. Eventually, this controversial debate was perceived as idiotic and we finally settled for the fact that the Earth is round.
        This is completely different instance. The Earth’s roundness was verified by proof found by astronomers and astronauts. For telepathy and telepathic willpower, it was the long line of people from generations of work that CREATED the proof. They conceived the idea of telepathy and defenses against it. These ideas are henceforth implemented to this day by movie artists, television producers, comic artist, and myself.

        On a side note, why should your track record on Pokemon Go, Draglade, Super Sm4sh Bros, Factpile, Outskirts Battle Dome, and your 10,000 posts have any prevalence in this? None of these instances gives you greater knowledge of what we are discussing. None of these instances even pertain to the fictions we were discussing. Just because you’re good in a few fields that cater to your recreational interests doesn’t mean you’re one of the top experts in the world on other fields. Experts on all things in video games are different from experts on all things in physics and philosophy. You can’t honestly say you’re an expert in one field just because you’re an expert in another.

        A stain? Dragon Ball was awesome!
        Not only was it the story that started it all, but it was a point in which villains and death had more meaning. I’ll never forget how kid Goku took on the Red Ribbon Army 😀
        Also, Goku already established that Gohan had more potential that him as a teen. It only makes sense that putting Gohan’s power on full throttle would make him insanely strong. That coupled with the fact that he was enhanced by a Kai with far more knowledge in power that both of them combined easily makes this point clear. It finally gave us a glimpse of the power that was unknown to us, yet crystal clear to Goku. Even HE was shocked when he saw his son transform.
        If Goku hadn’t met Beerus, Gohan would be the strongest character in the series if he kept training after his fight with Buu.

      • It’s still not the same as him physically doing something. TOAA has yet to beat someone like Spider-Man, let alone Goku. Just because HOTU did more meta, vague cosmic stuff, doesn’t mean that TOAA has this level of power.

        I just call him an old man because that’s the form that TOAA typically uses. I realize that he can also appear as other forms, but that’s his iconic look and it’s not as if he has ever used abilities beyond that.

        Trust me, it wasn’t just a few people. A lot of people thought that the world was flat. Also, I posted those feats just to let you know that I’m a very versatile expert. As for kid Dragon Ball, it just had too much objectionable content if you ask me. Still, it made more sense than Super, I’ll give you that.

        As for Gohan, he was definitely always powerful, but I’d say that Goku was never surpassed by him. He was always stronger, he just didn’t want to disappoint his son. That’s why he’s such a good character

  6. i would like to point out a few more holes in your logic. you said that TOAA doesn’t know how to fight, but he is omnipotent, and you said being omnipotent you are everything but nothing. so he knows everything. and to test your logic replace TOAA with Jesus and if it doesn’t work then…..
    repost.

    • Well, TOAA knows everything and yet nothing so he really knows nothing. You have to think of it in the same abstract way that we think of the rest of his abilities. He just doesn’t know how to fight unless we actually see him do it. Otherwise, he may have noticed it with his all knowing-ness, but he is still unable to do it. It’s like watching a game of checkers and then trying to actually replay the game in your head. It’s tricky.

      • ok then goku can’t destroy a timeserver or kill a god(TOAA) because he hasn’t done it.

      • Goku has destroyed opponents though so he can still do it. If he had never attacked someone before, then we’d have a problem.

      • but he hasn’t destroyed a multiverse. so he can’t. he just doesn’t have the feats. and the Jesus thing.

      • Goku hasn’t done it, but he has feats of actually blowing stuff up which is all that he needs in this case. Just think about it, Goku has proven himself

  7. How Long Is This Going To Keep Going? For About 3 Months Now People Have Been Lingering On This One Match. It’s Absurd. And For The Record, Goku Wins Easily. One Kamehameha X100 And It’s Over For The Above Nothing.

  8. @Dreager1 *SIGH* TOAA and the Primal Monitor/Presence stomp Goku as their the supreme beings of Marvel/DC. Also, you kinda debunked yourself. You said that someone who watches another person play checkers can’t actually play checkers because there just watching it, not playing it. Well, that means Goku couldn’t destroy the Omniverse as he’s never done it. You just claim that he can. Also, if you say TOAA claims that he can fight or is hype, then you claim that Goku is the 2nd strongest being in all of media and could bust the Omniverse. That’s just hype as you need to show a scan that he could do it. It just comes back to the same old generic answers which prove nothing. I.e: Cell’s solar system busting attack, etc. Goku needs to show that he CAN destroy the Omniverse. But all he’s done at best is prove that he’s universal at his strongest. You just hyping Goku and making claims. Show ACTUAL proof he is the 2nd strongest being in all of media. Which he isn’t even close dice he’s universal at best.

    • Supreme beings of Marvel/DC don’t mean much against DBZ characters. Just think about it for a second….DBZ is on a far higher plane of power than the others. Goku on his own could crush their universes. Now, I consider this to be a separate issue. TOAA has never even punched someone so it’s reasonable to say that he can’t fight. Goku has faced off with universal threats and has proven it in his fights. It’s reasonable to say that he is extremely powerful. Again, TOAA has nothing on his side. Should I bring up the Solar System busting feat again? I could use a Super feat where Goku’s punch nearly destroyed the multiverse as well even if I don’t care for the show, it’s still a feat. Goku has a lot of hype to be sure, but he backs it up!

      • TOAA doesn’t need to. he just blinks and goku is wiped from existence. and think, with the power of creation, you can give yourself anything. anything. do you want the powers of destruction? boom, you can make them for yourself. do you want an entire multiverse made out of soda, pizza, and jello? boom you just made it in the blick of an eye

      • Goku won’t be wiped from existence unless he wants to be. Think of it as another example of will power trumping everything. TOAA can have his pizza, Goku will take the win

      • Dreager,… no character in Anime or other media with Goku’s status has ever been able to escape nonexistence. The only characters that have are those with the power to metaphysically transcend such instances with a greater connection to the structure if all reality.
        Goku does not have this. He has to abide by the laws in his universe. He must abide by gravity, order, chaos, creattion, destruction, life, death, the fundamental forces, and other laws that leave him limited.

        You can’t just say a character can do that if there is no proof of the character being able to achieve such a feat. You’re basically creating false powers and defenses out of thin air without anything to support your claims.
        Even if there is a character that can do this, that doesn’t mean Goku can too. Like I said before, there are some characters with a metaphysical connection with life, thus giving them the power to defy it. Because Goku doesn’t have that same defense, Goku can’t do it too,

      • Don’t underestimate will power and good ole American ingenuity. We see characters survive stuff like that all the time with powers of friendship and determination. Goku would be able to exist. It would be a concept of existence that is unfathomable, but he wouldn’t yield. Goku would just continue to stand strong and show us why he is one of the greatest heroes out there.

        Here’s where I’m at. TOAA is a cool guy, but he doesn’t really have any feats. He can end life or end all of media if he wants too, but that won’t mean anything in the immediate fight. He can’t wish Goku away like a bad cold even if I know that it would help him quite a lot. He just can’t get rid of Goku like that, the Saiyan is simply way too persistent. Goku doesn’t need most of his fancy abilities as his base form and a simple ki blast will suffice. TOAA can’t dodge it and he certainly can’t hope to endure it.

        TOAA’s a nice guy. He’s solid on his feet and I think he has a lot of potential to change lives. That being said, he’s just not a fighter. So for those reasons, he’s out.

  9. @Dreager1 You see again, your using the same, generic argument for all of these posts. It always comes back to the same Cell solar system busting attack. That doesn’t prove anything. You didnt even show the powerscaling from island to omniverse level with Bass last time. Also, upload the scan of Goku destroying the multiverse. Goku cannot destroy the Omniverse, period. Sure, he can go to multiversal at best, but nothing more. So Goku busting the Omniverse is another claim made by DBZtards.

    The Supreme Beings of Marvel/DC are extremely powerful. While you seem subjective to TOAA, the Primal Monitor on the other hand is another case. He sent the probe known as Anti-Monitor to the DC Multiverse.

  10. And here as shown, is the Primal Monitor at the top of the DC food chain and ranked as the highest, even higher than the Sphere of the Gods and Heaven itself:

      • wow. just wow. would you like a list of people who can beat goku and the reasons? goku would get his butt handed to him by Odin. TOAA can turn gokus blood into moltain lead. sorry i’m bad at spelling. goku has to obey the laws of physics, and stuff, but TOAA doesn’t. he can just go “f#@k you i won’t do what you tell me!”- rage ageist the machines

      • That list would be very short since only Bass and Megaman can beat Goku. Odin got wrecked by Surtur and Dr Doom, he wouldn’t last 5 seconds against Goku. TOAA can’t manipulate Goku since Goku has his aura. Goku listens to its heart and it’s telling him that TOAA is on the wrong side. Taking him out of the equation won’t be hard

      • Yes, and it proves 2 things:

        1. That Bass would get stomped.
        2. That Superman isn’t the strongest comic book character.

      • You were so close man. It proves that Bass never gets stomped and that Superman is the strongest. I know the latter can be hard to believe since he’s always losing all of the time, but he’s a lot stronger than you’d suspect at first glance.

      • i’ll give you a few right now. just ask for the reason and i’ll give it to you. just one at a time please.

        The Flash
        Superman Prime one million
        The Beyonder
        Odin
        Saitama/One Punch Man
        and
        Deadpool

      • No need, let me explain why they couldn’t win.

        Flash- He’s just not fast enough to win this round. Goku would be speed blitzing him all day every day. One punch would be the end of him.
        Superman Prime one million- while he would put up a better fight than Superman, he would be dismantled in this fight. Goku has the overwhelming edge in power and speed. A few good hits from Super Saiyan blue should suffice.
        The Beyonder- It wouldn’t be much of a fight although it would be flashy. Goku just needs to Kamehameha him away and the set is as good as won.
        Odin- Too old. He would get speed blitzed by Goku as the fight starts and one good hit would take him down.
        Saitama- He’s strong, but not quite at DBZ level yet. Goku would have no problem blasting him.
        Deadpool- Goku laughs and Deadpool dies. He can’t take the spirit energy.

      • ha.ha.ha.
        Flash- he is soooooo much faster than goku. Flash out ran death and creation its self. oh and he is faster than instant teleportation. yes. The Flash is faster than INSTANT. and he has The Infinite Mass Punch. AND he can run so fast that he is going faster than speed.

        Superman- one time he punched through the time barer. and his heat vision is about 42,600,000,000,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit (42.6 Quadrillion degrees F). for durability, Superman has survived a Supernova, and ill leave it at that, the average Supernova hits with a force of around 10 octillion megatons. This means that his durability is almost identical to his striking power. According to physics, this actually makes sense.

        The Beyonder- he is a high level reality warper. he could just warp reality so that goku’s DNA is turned into Jello. and if you say something about his aura. boom. it never existed. and he is nie-omnipotent and immortal.

        Odin- please read this

        Deadpool- he can’t die

        Saitama- he is unbeatable.

      • Yeah, but Superman is faster than Flash and Goku is faster than Flash. Trust me, it wouldn’t be much of a contest. He still gets tripped up quite a bit.

        Superman is pretty neat so I can admit to that. He’s very strong, just not as strong as Goku. I do appreciate the effort though.

        Beyonder can’t do that to Goku. Goku has his will power at the ready.

        Odin’s still too slow though.

        Tell that to Goku!

        Only Bass is unbeatable.

      • when was superman faster than flash? never. the flash is faster than speed. goku is about 1,000,000 times faster than light BUT the flash is 23,759,449,00,000,00,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than light at the very least!

        will power is not enough
        Odin is just as fast if not faster than goku. even if he was slower, he can see the future and can mind rape goku.

        saitama is unbeatable

        Deadpool will tell that to goku when he rips out his lungs.

        oh and rune lord Thor can one punch goku

      • Superman’s constantly humiliating him like that, but he’s a nice guy so he tries not to hurt Flash’s feelings. Goku is significantly faster than Superman so it gets even more lopsided at that point.

        Will power is more than enough. One punch and then it’s over.
        Odin’s very slow. He can try to run, but he can’t hide.
        Only Bass is unbeatable.
        Goku laughs and his aura can take Deadpool out.
        Rune King Thor would be running for the hills.

  11. The Primal Monitor/Presence is DC’s TOP DOG. Not Superman. Superman has been beaten by Doomsday before.
    Superman being the strongest is just your opinion. The Map of DC’s Multiverse places Primal Monitor at the top.

    • I gotta disagree there. Doomsday can’t beat Superman without the help of the writers. Superman’s just too fast to be frank. Either way, I’d put both above Presence. Keep in mind that even Robin can fight better in hand to hand

      • By that logic I can use the same argument agains Superman. He needs someone to write the story for him to beat Doomsday, and the person writing the story is The Writer/Primal Monitor/Presence( I’ve proven before they’re the same being.)

  12. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiWldzKx43TAhWC24MKHW-aAlwQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fifanboy.com%2Farticles%2Fdc-histories-the-superman-flash-races%2F&psig=AFQjCNEZnsmieiGuNucxENPanUi2RDAbeA&ust=1491490018787482
    that was for charity

    will power is not enough.
    Saitama is unbeatable
    Rune King Thor is just overkill to take on goku.
    Odin in a weakened state just the energy from a mind battle wrecked a multiverse.
    deadpool he can’t die
    all if this just shows how little you know about DC and Marvel

    • Not the example that I used though. Goku just wrecked him there.
      Will power is more than enough. One punch and then it’s over.
      Only Bass is unbeatable.
      Odin’s very slow. He can try to run, but he can’t hide.
      Goku laughs and his aura can take Deadpool out. Everyone can die.
      Rune King Thor would be running for the hills.
      I’m a comics expert!

      • On a side note, I’ve seen some people talking about someone referred to as “Cosmic Armor Superman”.

        Can someone please tell me who this is and why they are so overpowered?

      • wrong all wrong.
        deadpool CAN NOT DIE. EVER. AT ALL. NEVER.
        Odin is not slow he is mftl
        bass is not unbeatable. saitama is
        will power is NOT enough! if it is than saitama can beat goku because he has indomitable will power.
        flash is way way way faster than goku. lets see a feat of goku going faster than someone going faster than instant. and the flash can steal speed.
        Rune King Thor would god stomp goku.
        why are you just giving me the same arguments over and over? oh yeah. because goku would get god stomped by any of these guys!

        cosmic armor superman
        Adaptive
        Berserker Strength
        Energy Absorption
        Cosmic Awareness
        Dimensional Manipulation
        Divine Powers
        Flight
        Fourth Wall Breakage
        Heat Vision
        Invulnerability
        Levitation
        Plot Manipulation
        Reactive Evolution
        Super Speed
        Super Strength

      • I don’t know about that man, my logic was sound. I kept giving the same arguments because you were essentially doing the same exact thing.
        Deadpool can die. One shot from Goku would suffice.
        Bass is unbeatable, but Saitama is not. Saitama hasn’t shown that he can fight at a high level like that.
        Will power’s all you need for cosmic shenanigans. Goku has a stronger will regardless. Saitama’s is hardly strong as all since everything is so easy for him. He’s never had to try.
        Goku surpassed light when he fought Frieza and his power has grown exponentially since then.
        Rune King Thor can’t even beat Superman.

      • It’d be more useful if someone provided some kind of scan of who he is so I can see what he looks like.

      • deadpool can not die. why? he has a healing factor and he was cursed never to die.
        RKT has too many hax. he would stomp the DBZ universe.
        going faster than light is good an and all but the flash can go 23,759,449,00,000,00,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than light at the very least.

      • That’s not enough. He can still be destroyed.
        Hax can’t overwhelm pure power.
        Still not fast enough. Flash is fast tho

  13. @Dreager1 And the Great Evil Beast and the Presence were going to destroy the Omniverse/Creation if they fought, but instead they decided to merge. GEB is Omniversal!

  14. Y’know what I’ve noticed? Goku’s Kamehameha is overrated.
    As far as I can tell, whenever he uses this techniques, it either misses the enemy or it fails to finish the battle completely. To my knowledge, the Kamehameha has rarely served as a means to finish off an enemy once and for all.
    Let’s take a moment to look at Dragon Ball’s history with this particular attack.

    Vegeta vs. Goku (Saiyan Arc)
    Goku uses a kaio-ken x3 AND x4 in culmination with a Kamehameha to thwart Vegeta’s Galick gun. While he manages to damage Vegeta’s armor and send him into space, he ultimately failed due to fact that Vegeta returned stronger and angrier than ever.

    Goku vs. Frieza (Frieza Arc)
    Goku uses a kaio-ken x20 also in culmination with a Kamehameha in order to make a short comeback against Frieza when he appears to posses the upper hand. However, Frieza easily blocks it with one hand and proceeds to beat Goku mercilessly.
    He only managed to recover by using the super spirit bomb (an attack that STILL would’ve failed without Piccolo) and Frieza still had enough vigor in his body to return.

    Goku vs. Android 19 (Android Arc)
    This was a humiliating defeat for Goku as it showed even he has his shortcomings. Though Goku had the power of a Super Saiyan (a power that multiplies a saiyan’s power level 50 times), his Kamehameha was absorbed and he was eventually taken to recover from his heart disease.
    So much for saiyan vitality.

    Goku vs. Cell (Cell Games Arc)
    Though Goku was able to hold his own against Cell, his Kamehameha wave did not have the results we would hope for. During the battle, the new and improved Super Saiyan Goku uses his Kamehameha in a very resourceful manner by japing Cell into believing he would risk the planet’s demise. Goku then used instant transmission to teleport right in front of Cell to launch a Kamehameha that destroyed his upper half.
    Unfortunately, Cell was capable of regenerating his destroyed torso and was then able to continue with the battle. Though Goku did damage, Cell was more than capable of recovering from such an attack.

    *SPOILER WARNING FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T SEEN THE BUU SAGA, BATTLE OF THE GODS, OR DRAGON BALL SUPER*

    Goku vs. Buu (Buu Arc)
    When Goku first encounters Buu in his first form, he is forced to rely on what used to be his most powerful transformation: Super Saiyan 3. As the battle heats up, it would appear as though Buu is on equal terms with Goku in spite of him having achieved a stronger form. Once again, Goku uses his Kamehameha against Buu as Super Saiyan 3. And, once again, it does not end the fight. Buu easily regenerates from being damaged by the attack and proceeds to fight Goku as if nothing happened.
    Goku only managed to finish the fight with a spirit bomb that would have failed without Vegeta being there to distract Buu.

    Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of the Gods Movie)
    While on King Kai’s planet, Goku in met by Beerus, the God of Destruction. For those of you who don’t know, Beerus is a deity with power that supersedes Goku’s to this day. No one even knows what the full extent of hos power is, as he has only been shown using a fraction of it in his encounters.That being said, Beerus effortlessly overpowers Goku as a Super Saiyan 3and even withstands another Kamehameha delivered by him. At that point, Goku never stood a chance.
    The balance then shifts a little when Goku achieves a new transformation called Super Saiyan God. With this he battle Beerus across earth. However, unlike all of his other fights, Beerus is completely unharmed and has no sign of scratches or injury. Goku then loses the transformation, though still keeps that same level of power coupled with super saiyan boost. He then uses this power to fire a Kamehameha that provides a direct hit. Buuuuut, it does absolutely nothing and Beerus still has enough energy to throw a massive ball of destruction that almost brings Goku down. In the end, Goku couldn’t beat him.

    Goku vs. Hit (Universe 7 Arc)
    I’ll skip the over explanation a just tell you that Goku achieved a transformation that takes a super saiyan god and applies a regular super saiyan boost to it. It’s called super Saiyan god super saiyan, but I’m just going to call it super saiyan blue. Goku then uses this form against an assassin named Hit, who then pushes Goku to using a new technique. He uses his super saiyan blue in addition with a kaio-ken x10. With this, he has a momentary victory against Hit and even uses his ” Godly Kamehameha” with the kaio-ken in the hopes of besting Hit. Unfortunately, Hit still manages to recover and was able to enhance his capabilities.

    As it stands, the Kamehameha has rarely defeated its target, and I don’t see how it can be perceived as an attack that could end a battle. Usually, it only further aggravates the opponent rather than bringing them to defeat. Even if it could destroy an opponent, it is still possible for someone with a powerful regenerative healing factor to repair their destroyed extremities. Plus, when you scale the Kamehameha from Goku’s universal destructive capacity, you then realize that it can’t even destroy a multiverse. Yes, it could take out a few universes, though an entire multiverse has countless universes that exceed the amount Goku can destroy. Seen as how there are foes who CAN destroy a multiverse with energy and physical strength and even have the power to withstand such attacks, Goku is outclassed by a wide variety of characters. Therefore, both Goku and most of the other characters in the franchise are far from being classified as multiversal threats, and therefore cannot be classified as beings that could solo other franchises.
    Universal+ seems more reasonable for his destructive capacity and durability.

    • Well, the Kamehameha hasn’t won a lot of battles, but I wouldn’t call it overrated. It’s still better than 95% of attacks in all of media. It just looks so awesome and packs a wallop as well. What really makes it good is the fact that it’s a direct attack that just disintegrates the opponent. It compacts all of Goku’s power into a steady stream of energy and then lets it loose. It’s really effective because of how fast it can blow opponents away. It’s personally my favorite attack in Goku’s arsenal.

      • anyone with energy manipulation/absorption would not even get hurt by it

      • Y’know, I’ve been around the block. I’ve experienced much in these few years. I’ve met may people and seen many things. But, I have no words for what you just did.

        You do realize this defeats whatever point you were making about the Kamehameha being impossible to absorb, seen as how the scan clearly shows someone absorbing it.

        I’m just…I’m just pointing that out.

        So…I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was just a joke.

      • Trust me, I shock everyone. I just like to do that kind of thing for fun. Back in the day when defending Goku in debates against Superman, I’d always post the Android 19 battle or the time Krillin hit him with a rock. It’s funny, but I don’t let it destroy my whole argument. That was a weaker Kamehameha so it’s fine if it was absorbed.

      • No, I think you are misunderstanding what I am implying.
        I did not add that clip of J.J. laughing or make that comment on my speechlessness to show any sign of respect. I did it because this is is a joke.

        This tread’s a joke and this whole blog’s a joke. I was trying to be more respectful, but you’ve wrung it out of me. I tried to address your mistakes with constructive criticism, I tried to express these flaws respectfully, and I tried my hardest to be a good person…*sigh*

        Look, you can’t address an issue where you are trying to disprove the Kamehameha being impossible to absorb by providing a scan of the Kamehameha being absorbed!
        THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
        Even if that is weaker version, that clip doesn’t prove whatever point you were trying to make. You haven’t swayed anyone’s opinion into thinking otherwise. You’ve only make the statement more feasible even if the effect is infinitesimal. It would have been better if you gave a scan of someone struggling to absorb the attack. Yes, it was a weaker version, but it still supports a little even if the effect is not as substantial as convincing someone otherwise.

        Besides (and I’m going to keep saying this), the Kamehameha can only destroy a few universes at it’s strongest. It is still below multiversal and that leaves many at an advantage in terms of durability and attack power.

        So…I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt… again… and say that the video you provided was not meant to be taken seriously.

        (*I’m giving you a chance to recover your credibility. TAKE IT!*)

      • I don’k know how I could lose you :/
        I made my point clear enough for a seven-year-old to understand.

        The instances you described do not support your claim in anyway. Both events showed Goku’s weaknesses and his low pain threshold. Ultimately, you are only giving people more reason to advocate for Superman’s victory. It doesn’t matter if you are unwilling to come to terms with your own mistakes. They are still present and any person with a functioning collection of neurons can see that.
        It’s not funny. It’s unfortunate.
        It’s unfortunate how you are unwilling to admit your own folly even when there is much evidence to show it. Any person with the right balance of self-awareness knows that mistakes are unavoidable when you’re human.

        I am more than willing to swallow my pride to admit that.

      • You gotta make it even simpler than that for me.

        Well, I used the Android 19 clip because it makes me feel good as a DBZ fan. That scene still gives me the chills because it’s such a great series and Goku was a well rounded character. Lets put it this way, DBZ is one of those titles where everything works. Goku may have lost that round, but we always knew he would win the next round. That’s one of the main reasons why I like the series so much. Superman’s good, but remember the time he lost to Lex Luthor? Yeah, I remember that and that’s the problem. Goku would never lose a fight like that because he’s a Saiyan of Legend. One good Kamehameha and the villains all freeze up. It’s like how Goku laid down the pain when he fought Frieza. He took some shots, but he also gave a bunch of them as well. I feel like Goku never gives up and he has real feats.

        That’s the problem with TOAA, he has no feats. It’s like grabbing a Mc Flurry at McDonalds and then they tell you that they don’t have any toppings available. That’s just not good enough and to be frank, it’s not something that I can buy into. TOAA has no feats so he’s like a hamburger without the meat. He has a lot of potential, but doesn’t deliver on any of it. While I guess we can’t call him an old man, he is effectively an old man who can levitate. I’d take Alex Hopper over him in a fight because at least Alex has his gun at the ready and some decent hand to hand skills. He can punch and kick which is more than we can say for TOAA since he has no proof.

        It’s a desperate gamble for power that TOAA has started like the new Gluten Free crust at Papa John’s. It’s a last ditch effort to save their reputation, but it is all for naught. It’s too late to really fight back and the damage is done. If TOAA gets a new comic series someday, then that could help. It’s like how Dragon Ball Super showed up to give Goku new feats like Blue Super Saiyan and all that or McDonalds and their new McCafe. You need innovation in order to increase productivity and that’s something that the Dragon Ball series is good at.

        Goku isn’t stronger than TOAA?? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a fighter with such abilities and movement like Goku? Goku puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a fighter with his skill and passion for combat again. TOAA breaks reality. Beyonder breaks multiverses. Goku breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

      • First of all, this isn’t a matter of which series is more influential in your book. That fight serves as a painful reminder that Goku is still beatable. He was bested in combat and his signature move failed tremendously. Superman and Luthor, on the other hand, are a different story. Superman struggles with Lex because he has armed most of his armory with Superman’s greatest weakness: Kryptonite. Like I said before, Goku’s Kamehameha has failed to disintegrate its target and still does so to this day. It’s a hype move that still lacks the means to reach the same destructive capacity of characters like the Anti-Monitor. As it stands, his feats still put him below a large array of characters.
        Also, for the record, Goku did lose the next round. During the Cell Games, he needed his son to finish the job. He was even thrown around like a rag-doll by Cell’s children.

        Second of all, TOAA is not an old man. You keep calling him an old man even when he has proven to possess the power to alter his form and gender freely. I’m beginning to think you aren’t the TOAA expert you say you are. I bet you don’t even know what issue he first made his presence known in.

        Third, you have it backwards. Characters with reality warping are the ones that break the rules. It’s in the name of the power. You can change how strong you are and how weak the opponent is. You can make an atmosphere are deadly toxin or destroy the ozone layer. You can destroy universes with energy or with physical attacks. You can make yourself stronger and faster than everyone else. You’d know that if you properly did your research.
        Seriously, you can see characters capable of doing what Goku does every day of their lives. There are numerous individuals capable of beating him. Goku still has to abide by the rules of gravity and space-time, which ultimately leaves him at a severe disadvantage against beings that ignore those limits. He still lacks the strength to even leave a dent in multiversal beings even if he is at max power.

        Fourth, Doctor Doom.
        Doctor Doom has done performed feats greater than almost every villain, hero, and deity in fictional history. He stands above Goku in terms of impressiveness and skill.

        He became a god nine times.

        He went to Hell and fought a horde of demons with little power left in his suit.

        He built a time machine (which I might add is more impressive than Bulma’s, seen as how he can summon it with his suit and can teleport a greater number of people).

        He ruled an entire country and got bored with it.

        He ruled the entire Earth and got bored with it.

        He wielded two of the most powerful artifacts in existence.

        He thwarted one of the mightiest magic users to ever live and sent her back in time.

        He killed a lion with one punch without magic or technology.

        He obtained the most versatile substance in the universe and weaponized it into an awesome suit and a robot army.

        He cheated death multiple times.

        He has thwarted the smartest individuals in the universe multiple times.

        He constructed a bomb composed of the alternate versions of the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse, used it to kill an army of nearly-omnipotent alien gods and destroy the multiverse, stole their power, and reconstructed the Multiverse where he was literally GOD!

        Keep in mind that Doom is a human with no superhuman powers other than his knowledge of the mystic arts. It was his brilliant intellect that made him one of the most dangerous beings ever created. Imagine the devastation Doom could invoked if he was born as a mutant or an Inhuman. o_o
        Power is not something deciphered from how loud someone is screaming or how bright their blasts are. Power is deciphered based on their results, and Goku has never shown results that puts him at the top.

        Fifth, my “statistics” are the very same means you use when referencing a character’s power. The only difference is that I can differentiate the power between destroying a planet and punching through a universe. We need these statistics in order to properly assess a character’s strength. Without them, people would be saying a planetary threat at full power is stronger than a multiversal threat when holding back. They are used to consistently rate a characters strength, speed, durability, combat experience, agility, intelligence, and other stats in order to see who is stronger than whom. It’s only logical.
        But, Goku… Goku can’t even breathe in deep space. :/

        Frankly, I don’t see why anything you’re saying should make more sense than what I’m saying. I mean, you’re the one who thought Gon could defeat Galactus.
        Gon can’t even move faster than light, nor does he have the capacity to breathe in space. If Galactus wanted to, he could just devour the who planet and take Gon with him to sate his appetite.

      • I won’t deny that Android 19 thoroughly outclassed Goku. Goku was out of his league from the start, but that just speaks to the meat and potatoes of the issue as opposed to Goku’s “lack” of strength. His Kamehameha can destroy anyone in a single hit because it’s one of the strongest moves ever. Yeah, Goku lost to Cell and the Kamehameha never wins when it counts, but it does deal the finishing blow against weaker opponents. Factor in Goku’s current power level and you’ve got yourself a real contender here. DBZ is the most influential series ever, but as you said, that doesn’t matter. It’s just an interesting thing to note. As for Superman and Lex, it doesn’t change the fact that Goku would never lose to someone like that. Goku has no weaknesses which is a huge advantage for him.

        Would you prefer that I called TOAA an old lady or a young kid? As you mentioned, he can shift at will so I like to stick to the Old Man title since it’s tried and true. He does seem to prefer that form to the others.

        Reality Warpers are all talk and no action like the Papa John commercials. You’re overrating Dr. Doom by the way. He’s a cool villain, but he can’t take down Superman, much less Goku.

        Power levels can’t be determined by yells, but dedication and good animation go a long way. Dr. Doom couldn’t survive a punch from Goku, much less the Kamehameha wave. Every time Goku starts to charge up his energy blast, I can’t help but get a little nervous for his opponent. It’s just crazy how strong a Super Saiyan is and you know what’s even more terrifying? Goku’s just getting warmed up! The statistics are good and feats are important. Thing is, not only does Goku have those in spades, but he also has charisma.

        Gon could destroy Galactus of course. The matchup isn’t even close. Galactus is way too slow and big. Gon would just keep on punching Galactus as the big guy tries to tell him to stop. Galactus is the prey and Gon is the hunter in this case. You can’t stop someone like Gon…he’s just too experienced and determined!

      • No, it’s not that strong.
        It’s striking power is still lacking to this day.
        There are numerous characters that have the durability and power to resist it or deflect it without a scratch.
        I’ve calculated it based on everything in the entirety of Dragon Ball’s history. I’ve look at every point it was executed and scaled Goku’s other feats with basic calculations. I’ve performed research on EVERYTHING.
        I’m sorry, but no matter who you swing it, the facts don’t place Goku at that level at this moment. It still shows that many can survive his most powerful attacks. The end result is the same no matter how consistently you rate it.
        Goku just isn’t strong enough yet.

        “He does seem to prefer that form to the others.”
        So, because TOAA used that form ONE time in ONE rare instance, he prefers it above all others? How does that make sense? I suppose Oolong’s form as a young man means he prefers that form even though he’s only used it once.
        You’re referring to him as an old man as if his form directly correlates with his vitality. He’s a SHAPEshifter. You can turn a block of clay into an alien shape, but that doesn’t mean it posses the physiology of an extraterrestrial being. While he can theoretically acquire these traits, what idiot would do that to themselves?
        Time and death have no effect on his being regardless of what form he takes.
        It’s a facade. A cloak. A disguise he used in order to blend in. He wouldn’t use that form in a hostile confrontation. He only used that form to avert any attention. With his level of benevolence, he wouldn’t stoop to the level of characters like Shadow, Vegeta, or Bass (all of whom have similarities that are miraculously uncanny).
        He’s not the kind of person who would demand faith from others like Doom. With his level of knowledge, he wouldn’t act so…mortal.

        If you knew ANYTHING about comics or anime, you would know that there are plenty of people with reality warping powers that take plenty of action and ultimately defeat foes without any problem whatsoever.
        Mad Jim Jaspers, Franklin Richards, Wiccan, Galactus, and the Beyonder have been more than willing to take action and have done so in a manner that places them above most characters. There is no way Goku could pull off what they’ve done. Destroying multiverses, ripping and reshaping matter, obtaining immortality, seeing the future, and controlling entire timelines have been within the vast repertoire of their abilities.
        I’m starting to think you’re not really an expert on comics or anime now.

        I already know Doom couldn’t fight Goku in a direct physical confrontation, though he would flex his muscles by formulating a plan no one would see coming. He wouldn’t act like a senseless bonehead and fight Goku directly. More than likely, he would use the gadgets in his arsenal to learn everything he can about him.

        His inability to breathe in deep space or underwater.
        His capacity to run out of power with the use of his stronger attacks.
        His naive nature.
        His insatiable appetite.
        The amount of energy consumed with his strongest transformations.
        His inability to teleport outside the universe.
        His constraints to linear time.
        His mortality.

        Any being (cosmic or naught) would be able exploit these weaknesses using both power and superior intellect. The scan you provided seems to support this. With or without telepathy, a character could use mind games on Goku to fool him easily.
        Like I said, power is also deciphered based on results. The results of Goku’s actions are lacking when compared with other characters. Based on his feats and statistics, he is well below a threat to immortal, primordial, and multiversal entities.

        As for Gon and Galactus, you really haven’t been following the progression of comics and anime have you? Immense size doesn’t yield an expense of speed for all characters. They can compensate for it with training an experience. Darth Vader, Great Saiyan Apes, and Marugori are all evidence of beings capable of moving faster than most in spite of the additional mass. Galactus himself has displayed the ability to move at light speed while traveling through the cosmos and reacting to attackers. He’s very, very fast.

        However, Galactus won’t be needing to do much moving in this fight.
        There are still a few things I want to know:
        1. How can Gon even touch Galactus if he can’t breathe in space? Does he even have the power to leave the three spheres of the atmosphere? Can he even leave one?
        2. If Gon could breathe outside of the atmosphere, how would he even hurt him? Galactus has fought beings capable of shredding solar systems with ease. Just by absorbing FOUR planets he was capable of doing combat with galaxy busters. A planetary attack, regardless of how many times it’s used, is nothing more than a butterfly kiss against Galactus.
        3. What if the entire planet is destroyed? Even when starving, Galactus can destroy entire planets with ease. If he wanted to end the battle quickly, he could just stand with arms folded, look at the Earth with a condescending look of superiority, and destroy it with his eye lasers. If this happened, Gon would either die from the power of the blast or suffocate in the vacuum of deep space.

        So, unless Gon can breathe in space, destroy solar systems, or survive planetary annihilation, Galactus will beat him effortlessly.

      • I think you must have missed a few 000s in your calcs. The Kamehameha gets stronger along with Goku which means that the ceiling for its abilities is quite high. That’s why the attack is the best. It literally has no limit and is always improving. It doesn’t hurt that the attack also looks really cool!

        Well, that is TOAA’s most iconic appearance and since he is meant to look like Stan Lee, it stands to reason that it is his default form. Oolong typically looks like a pig…so that’s his favorite form.

        Goku has the feats to outshadow any reality warper. Should I post the Cell solar system scan again?

        Well, for anime I’ve been watching a lot of Buddyfigt and Yugioh lately. Those series have other fighters that could take on people like TOAA, but I shouldn’t get into that. Lets address your concerns on how Gon could wreck Galactus with ease.

        1. Gon jumps up and punches Galactus. Galactus is huge, but Gon can jump high. If Galactus retreats into space then Gon can use his Paper energy blasts to continue the fight until Galactus mans up and heads back to Earth to get clobbered.

        2. See number 1. Gon’s punches would deal a whole lot of damage to Galactus. I mean, the guy was knocked out by Ghost Rider and injured by Thor. Gon would have him crying for mercy very quickly.

        3. Galactus will have to get past Gon to destroy the planet and that’s not happening. That being said, that’s why we choose a neutral battlefield for a fight like this. It’s like how Nemo would be at a disadvantage if they fought in Texas or Ice-Man wouldn’t do well near a volcano. The planet will effectively be destruction proof to prevent cheese tactics like that or you can think of the layout like Final Destination from Super Smash Bros. Stage hazards won’t determine the outcome, just the fighters’ abilities and Gon has those in spades!

      • Weeeeeell…I did ACTUAL calculations based on real means of measurement. It’s actually quite easy when you know the basic fundamentals of multiplication.
        Unlike you, I actually tried using a consistent strategy to assess his strength based on mathematics and real time events that provide additional escalations in power.
        It’s still not enough.
        So, unless you actually took the time to look through the Dragon Ball continuity to find every point that can offer insight on Goku’s strength now the same way I did, my input is still valid.

        Yes, Oolong TYPICALLY uses that form.
        TOAA only used that particular form one time, and most likely has no plans to use again.
        Even if it is his most iconic, a shapeshifter changes their form depending on the scenario. Why should that be his definitive form when he can change it willingly?
        In later scenarios that showed his major moments of intervention, he was perceived as a specter of pure light an all encompassing, incorporeal energy mass. You even used that form as the profile picture for TOAA for this very thread.

        No he doesn’t.
        That solar system feat can barely be classified as a move worth looking at with the amount of characters who can do that with a finger. Solar system busting is now a low tier power among the stronger characters.
        In fact, when you scale from that feat and multiply other aspects of power levels, you get results that are lower than universal. By calculating from that instance, the amount of solar systems Goku can destroy now barely reaches the amount of solar systems in a galaxy.\
        I actually worked out the math in the Beyonder vs. Goku thread.
        So, if you want the highest possible results, you should use the only true universal feat in the entire series.

        Regardless of how strong Goku is, the natural forces of the universe have always been one of his obstacles.
        Like I said before, Goku only has a speed advantage against foes that are linear within the boundaries of space-time like him. It won’t be easy to face an enemy that can speedblitz at speeds faster time.

        There is no conceivable way Gon can even faze Galactus with his attacks. Gon can’t even destroy a solar system, let alone an entire Galaxy. When Galactus is as well fed as has been in the past, his strength can even reach universal levels. If Gon only has enough force to destroy a planet, Galactus won’t feel a thing.
        Unless, of course, you have something to prove that Gon’s striking strength is at least at a multi-solar level.

        On a side note, Galactus is way faster than Gon.
        Even as a giant, Galactus has proven to move at speeds that surpass light-speed to the point where he has matched (and bested) characters like Silver Surfer and High Evolutionary in speed and strength.

        Gon on the other hand is no where near light-speed.
        As it stands, like other characters in Hunter x Hunter, Gon has only been able to move faster than the speed of sound at his fastest. Though he can move at supersonic and even HYPER-sonic speeds, that still places him at a severe disadvantage when Galactus can speedblitz him at light-speed.
        In fact, characters like Kirito and Naruto are only capable of moving and reacting at mach speeds. While this is impressive, it still places them well below light-speed.

      • Hey, basic multiplication is a lot trickier than it looks. Why should 2*2 = 4? It doesn’t always make sense, but at least it’s fair. As for the calcs, I put a few minutes of time into mine as well. It makes sense when you consider the big picture. Goku was about to destroy all of creation when he was fighting Beerus and he wasn’t even close to full power yet.

        Well, TOAA as an old man is his most iconic form so it makes sense to think of him that way. As you mentioned, he doesn’t need to keep that form, but I’d say that it’s an improvement over his talking head form. At least you can picture him slapping someone with a cane or something.

        Goku can speedbiltz anyone. He can move faster than time if he wants too and the fact of the matter is, Goku is one of the GOATs (Greatest of All Time) in media. He has the speed and the skills to pay the bills. He’s died more times than I can count and he always gets right back on the saddle. TOAA breaks reality, Beyonder breaks multiverses, Goku breaks the rules. He does what he wants when he wants and continues to get stronger and stronger.

        Goku really knows no limits and continues to get up.

        Goku has to go up against the writers, the fans, and occasionally a strong villain. He still manages to come out on top.

        As for Gon and Galactus, you’re heavily overestimating the latter.

        I was laughing so hard during this scene that I had to keep replaying it so I could actually hear what was happening. If Ghost Rider the Glider could beat Galactus in one hit, then Goku’s aura would make the big guy go away. Gon wouldn’t win quite as easily, but a few good punches would still do the trick. Galactus is what I’d call a glass cannon. He can dish out the blows, but he can’t take it. He gets overwhelmed and shut down. In all fairness, I like Galactus. He’s a fun guy and has a good sense of humor. That being said, part of the fun is that he can never back up his tough talk. He talks a good game, but ends up being shut down by every super powered team in the book. Here’s how the fight would go

        Galactus just isn’t durable enough to take Gon on 1 on 1. Naruto’s definitely FTL meanwhile and Kirito is up there as well. Please don’t say that you think Galactus can beat Kirito. Kirito would just need a few good slices from his dual blades to take the giant down and Galactus would never even be close to landing a hit on the legendary Swordsman.

    • Better than 95% of attacks in all of media?
      A direct attack that just disintegrates the opponent?

      Anyone with Buu’s level of regeneration can recover from a Kamehameha. Judging by the amount of characters that do have that type of healing factor AND can recover from disintegration, I can think of a lot of people that can come back from it.

      It’s like you said: “the Kamehameha hasn’t won a lot of battles”, which is why I don’t see how it’s classified as a one-hit kill. Anyone with multiversal durability can tank it easily even at the highest stage we’ve seen. Again, there are many characters that have proven to deserve this classification. Unfortunately, Goku is not one of them.

      Perhaps It’s just me, but how can one place so much hope in an attack that almost never does the job of ending the fight?

      • Absolutely! A direct attack like that is the best kind. The only other ones that could compete with it would be something like Darkness Overload, Gallick Gun, Dark Arm Blade, and other abilities of a similar nature. A healing ability isn’t enough to take on the full brunt of the Kamehameha. Remember, you’ll be disintegrated by that point so the healing factor won’t even matter. At Goku’s current level, there are only a small handful of opponents who could survive a direct shot…maybe not even that many. It’s a very simple technique, but that doesn’t make it any less deadly.

      • It isn’t that deadly. A direct attack does not always mean it is the most devastating one. Even when the Kamehameha has landed direct hits characters have recovered from it with only a few scratches. Buu was able to heal from it. Cell was able to heal from it. Beerus wasn’t even injured at all. If characters like Maestro can molecularly rebuilt their bodies after being atomized via their regenerative healing factor, I’m pretty sure a lot of people can survive it.
        How can you say an attack can destroy anyone if it can’t even hold up against the foes of the respective franchise? Like I said, Goku’s Kamehameha is an attack that, at this point, only has the power to destroy a few universes. It can’t destroy a multiverse. Therefore, there are characters that can survive it.

        Also, some of the other attacks you listed also have a history of not ending the fight and only further aggravating the opponent. Why do these attacks get special treatment? They seem just as a effective and ineffective as other attacks I’ve seen. They almost never damage the enemy the way they are intended to and characters usually have enough time to dodge them. They’re strong, but the amount of flaws in their execution leave much room for failure. -_-

        As far as I can tell, those techniques are just hype.

        I also want to address what you said about Odin. He may be old, but that does not make him weak. In fact, it is quite the contrary. Age enhances Asgardian vitality and Odin if far stronger than most of the forces in the cosmos.
        Plus, Odin is one of the the many characters that have shown to have the power to move faster than light. He went through the entire universe in a matter of minutes while fighting Forsung.

      • I disagree. Direct attacks will always be the most devastating and have the best results. Those enemies have lived, but they’ve never faced current Goku’s 100% Kamehameha. That attack is a monster and the scary thing is that it gets stronger along with the user. Since Goku has no limits, neither does the Kamehameha. I just don’t see anyone standing up to it without being vaporized. Even healing factors won’t work with how completely destructive it is.

        I mean, those attacks were examples. I could probably come up with others if I thought about it like the Earthbreaker move. It’s not special treatment just in my experience, those are some of the strongest attacks in media. Keep in mind that an attack is limited by the user. It’s possible for a low tier fighter to have an amazing attack and the attack is underrated because of this. Case in point, Tri Beam. Imagine how strong it would have been if Goku had used it?

        Old age doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with being weak I suppose, but it does help. In most of Odin’s depictions, he’s seen as incredibly slow, frail, and weak. He has some outliers which help a lot and authors have tried to get him back into the game with these cool speed feats, but by and large, the strongest characters will always be those who are in their primes.

      • You can fire a direct attack with a six-shooter at a tank, but that doesn’t mean it will destroy the armor.
        Like I’ve said numerous times, I’ve calculated the Kamehameha at maximum capacity already and the outcome left it severely below a multiversal threat. Anyone with that level of durability can tank it head on.
        Some who can’t have the capacity to regenerate their beings from disintegration. The Kamehameha isn’t an attack that wipes characters from existence. It’s just another attack that can disintegrate it’s target.
        Even for those who can’t tank it or regenerate from it, there are those with ability to resurrect their bodies and reemerge anew.
        For instance, the Valar would be able to recover from this. Even IF they could not survive being hit by such an attack, their spirits would still be in tact. As long as they are in tact, they can reconstruct their bodies without a problem.
        Unfortunately, Goku can’t destroy immortal spirits either.
        Also, you seem to be confused with Goku’s character. He HAS limits. It’s his realization of these limits that give him a reason try and surpass them. Goku still has much to learn.

        Regardless, most of them have still failed to decimate a target in one hit.

        Since when is Odin slow, frail, or weak?
        Odin’s never shown any of those limitations!
        He’s one of the only characters in all of Marvel that can move at speeds faster than light.
        He was even able to combat Thanos and Silver Surfer simultaneously.
        In fact, due to being the greatest of the Asgardians, he’s exhibited moments of great agility and reflexes, as shown during his one-on-one battles with S.S and Thor.
        He also has greater stamina, due to being capable of fighting for months on end without resting or eating.
        I don’t think you know enough about Odin to suggest he is slow.
        You can’t suggest outliers were involved if Odin has never been illustrated as weak or frail. If he hasn’t shown to be classified as such, then he is not weak or frail.

        While age is consider a hindrance for others, Odin’s age has never weighed him down. In fact, his age is a great asset to his capabilities.
        In addition to that, there are many characters of greater age who have shown to posses vitality that surpasses that of metahumans in their prime.

      • Nobody can tank a Kamehameha full blast though. There are a handful of exceptions, but characters just don’t have that level of power. As for spirits, those won’t be enough. The Kamehameha just destroys anything in its path, nobody is regenerating from that if it’s a clean hit. The Immortal Spirits will fade into oblivion from the pure carnage and raw power of it.

        Goku has no limits. Super is just saying that because the show doesn’t know what it’s talking about. Goku will keep on getting stronger and stronger forever and ever.

        Have you seen Odin in any of the cartoons or the live action films? He can barely even walk straight at times and I could outrun him if I brought my track sneakers out of hibernation. Even in the comics, he was too slow to dodge surtur. Odin is not a fast character at all. He did fight Thanos and Silver Surfer, but he didn’t use a lot of speed there.

        The fight makes for a lot of cool visuals. There’s no doubt about that, but Surfer and Thanos just kept running straight at him. All Odin needed were some decent reaction times and he was able to hold his own. In terms of actual speed, Tuxedo Mask at his peak could probably outrun him. Lets not even get started on good ole Saiyan Saga Goku.

        The only thing that typically gets better with age is a classic McDonald’s Chocolate Chip Frappe. It tastes better every year.

      • so? TOAA is god. he can do anything. give m eon efeat of goku’s that says he can destroy an omniverse. and no “oh he destroyed a island so he can destroy an omniverse!” one feat of goku destroying an omniverse.

      • I can show you a scan of Goku facing someone who can destroy a solar system if it helps. Goku was also wrecking the Omniverse at the beginning of Super, but held back just enough to stop all of reality from being destroyed. Show me TOAA at least throwing a punch or breaking a building.

      • That’s basically the same argument I made. Destroying an island means you can destroy the Omniverse? NO. Unless your omnipotent. there’s only one Omniverse by the way, but an omnipotent being can make multiple Omniverses.

      • My argument is more substantial. Think about it, TOAA’s never destroyed anything. At least Goku has. He nearly wiped out all of reality with a punch

    • Mob and Tornado are two characters that have never punched anything, yet they’ve been known to have greater power than almost the entire cast of their respective series.
      Besides, there are characters that have powers that put physical contact in combat to shame. A character doesn’t need to be a muscle head like Tulkas in order to be classified as powerful.

      • I think you’re taking it too literally though. Mob has effectively punched as he did grab a guy by the face and slam him through a few buildings at super speed. Tornado has thrown rocks at people. They may not have used a punch, but they did physically attack someone. We can alter the parameters if you want. Show me a scan of TOAA firing a TK bolt at an opponent or lifting a building with his mind and slamming someone. Those feats would count as well since they are attacks. The problem is that TOAA has never even attacked anyone because he can’t. It’s like when someone yells “FAKE NEWS” all the time and then you want for the counter but it never comes. TOAA just isn’t a fighter.

    • Here

      I think the Dub makes it even cooler though so try to find that clip if you want for the extra boost. It’s really impressive and the only reason why the punch doesn’t end up blowing up the omniverse is that Goku learns how to absorb and redirect the energies so that the universe is unaffected

    • You sure, it works just fine on my end. Google Goku and Beerus destroy the universe and you should find a similar link.

      That’s what Omnipotents want you to think!

      • Well, I had to go on the main site of YouTube to enable the video.

        Omnipotents like the Beyonder for example, are capable of shaking up multiverses and tanking blasts that can destroy several billion dimensions.

      • Omnipotents like Beyonder tend to get speedblitzed though. Seriously, I don’t think he would last more than a minute against someone like Goku. That scene isn’t the only powerful moment in DBZ history. Goku has numerous hype points through the years and he always backed up his tough talk

      • Beyonder couldn’t be defeated. He nearly busted the Multiverse at the end of Secret Wars 2 and also defeated Molecule Man. But Beyonder could only be defeated by P.I.S. Example when he was inside a machine and was going to destroy the Multiverse, Molecule Man destroyed the machine and created a new Big Bang.

      • Sure, Beyonder is tough, but keep in mind that he’s never been defeated because he’s never had to fight someone like Goku before. Goku is on a completely different level from any comic book character and that’s before he even decides to try. Trust me, Beyonder doesn’t want a piece of this action.

  15. Also, it was only the Universe that was nearly destroyed. Where does it say Omniverse? That shows how much your wanking your favorite character. He’s massively overrated on many debating forums.

      • It makes sense though. Think about it, if they were all going to die because of the destruction, then that probably applies to everything in the omniverse.

      • That…that makes no sense…
        It was heavily implied that their universe was the only thing that was on the verge of perishing.
        How would that correlate with the rest of the Omniverse?
        Nothing else beyond the Kai World was affected by it.
        You can just add to the feat when their’s nothing to support it.

        I don’t see how Goku should even be considered being placed at multiversal let alone omniversal. The only fictional realms that have referenced the existence of the omniverse are Doctor Who and Marvel Comics.
        If anything, the characters in those series are closer to being omniversal than Goku will ever be.

      • How was it implied that just their universe would perish? The Kais were panicking because everything was about to be obliterated. Everything is truly everything in this case and that includes the omniverse. Marvel and Doctor Who are the only ones to mention the Omniverse because those universes just like to brag all of the time. It doesn’t mean that they don’t exist in the other realms, just that it doesn’t matter much. If you can blow up a multiverse, you can basically do the same to an omniverse. If you can take out a universe, you can probably take out a multiverse…etc.

      • If that’s the case, EVERY character in fiction is omniversal by the same token.
        I mean, they didn’t destroy the Omniverse.
        Some of them didn’t even destroy what they claimed they could destroy (Cell being one of them).

        By your logic, Galactus, the Beyonder, Superman, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, the Phoenix, Hulk, Thor, Darksied, Spectre, Anti-Monitor, Thanos, and the entire Cosmic hierarchy are omniversal threats too.

        Why should it matter if they haven’t proven it?
        In fact, why should any character prove anything?

        I can say Hulk is multiversal as the Worldbreaker without providing any scans to support other than one of him being defeated like the ones you offered.

        I can prove Superman can solo Gurren Lagann by showing a scan of him being stabbed in the heart by Emperor Joker.

        I can say Iron man is 10,000,000,000,000 times faster than the speed of light after he escaped a black hole.

        The Beyonder caused multiversal destruction? That means he’s omniversal even though his rampage didn’t breach the barrier past the Marvel continuity.

        Why should Odin be limited to destroying one galaxy?
        Why can’t we say he can destroy a MILLION galaxies!
        A BILLION!
        INFINITY!
        WHY STICK WITH CONSISTENCY WHEN YOU CAN EDIT THE STORY LIKE IT’S YOUR’S?

        *Inhales deeply*

        What’s the point of having a battle blog if you’re going to be even more inconsistent and ridiculous than the writers you undermine?

      • Well, not every. That being said, I do think that every multiverse buster is an omniverse buster. At that point, there is no real differentiation between the two. Any that can do the former can certainly do the latter unless it is explicitly stated that they cannot. As you mentioned, most universes don’t even bother with the omniverse because of how irrelevant it is. I’d go as far as to say that Universe Busters can also destroy omniverses, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

        No, none of those guys aside from probably Superman would stack up. I suppose we can throw in Beyonder. The ones who are omniverse busters are Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Vegeta, Beerus, Whis, Frieza, Cell, Buu, etc.

        Lets calm down and think about this.

        Hulk-He has trouble with lightweights like Thor and Iron-Man. (Relatively speaking) He definitely can’t break a multiverse
        Superman- He couldn’t take down Simon. That being said, this argument is probably the most credible.
        Iron Man- I could see him being massively FTL, but not through a black hole feat. Grab a scene from the anime where he speedbiltzes one of the villains to make it more convincing.
        Odin- Nobody can take him seriously at this point.

        Well, the blog has a 100% accuracy policy so that helps to separate my opinions from the facts. The policy prevents the site from having any inaccurate battles, If it breaches the contract, then it has to answer to me.

  16. Prove that the Beyonder doesn’t want to fight. He shook up the Multiverse. And you haven’t even answered my question a month ago. Where’s the power scaling from island to omniverse level?

      • So?
        Galactus can devour planets when he’s at his weakest state.
        Bass shook a planet while getting stronger.
        Eating takes less effort than charging one’s energy, especially when you don’t even need to chew your food.

        There is no conceivable way to scale a character as an omniversal threat based on a planetary feat in Bass’ position. There are 500 discovered SOLAR SYSTEMS in ONE galaxy alone, and it is estimated that the true amount goes into the millions and billions.

        Exactly how would you scale him as being omniversal from that planetary feat?

        Show me. Show me exactly how you scaled his power as omniversal from that feat.

      • Galactus is still slow tho. Well, here’s a more in depth look at it.

        Bass was FTL when he first appeared.
        -Bass blows up island by powering up
        -Bass breaks black hole with his fist
        -Bass shakes planet by powering up
        -Bass destroys legendary virus in one hit
        -Bass must be the strongest in history.

        While the last one may seem like a bit of a stretch, it really isn’t. Bass has proven time and time again that he is the GOAT. (Greatest of All Time) He saves heroes time and time again and his raw power is just about unstoppable. His Get Ability makes his defense perfect as well. I say that his strength is unlimited because once he shoots a laser, I don’t see the energy ever stopping until it has destroyed its objective.

      • No he’s not.
        Even in his larger form, he is capable of moving at speeds that surpass light.
        He’s faster than you realize.

        “Bass was FTL when he first appeared.”
        -So? There are numerous characters with speed surpassing light speed. They’ve evolved tremendously from that point as well.
        Galactus is one of them.

        “Bass blows up island by powering up”
        Just one island?
        That’s not much to give him the edge.

        “Bass breaks black hole with his fist”
        There are billions of black holes in a single universe.
        Bass destroying a black hole is like me breaking off a piece of Styrofoam compared to other character feats.

        “Bass shakes planet by powering up”
        Just one planet?
        A planet he didn’t even destroy?
        That’s still not much to give him the edge.

        “Bass destroys legendary virus in one hit”
        What legendary virus?.

        “Bass must be the strongest in history.”
        That’s a lot of hype considering the fact that he was trapped in the Jaws of Nebula Grey, punctured in the chest, and defeated on several different occasions.

        There are characters who can do everything you have listed to the point where his feats are as impressive as playing one key on the piano. All of those feats are child’s play from an experienced veteran of fiction (though. I’m still comfortable with admitting my moments of ignorance and my less frequent participation in that regard).

        On a side note, Goku has NEVER shaken a multiverse, his energy blasts take FAR more effort than just thinking, and he is NOT all-powerful.

        You sill haven’t shown me exactly how you scaled Bass as being omniversal from those feats.

      • Trust me, he’s anything but fast. As a casual Marvel expert, I can guarantee you that Galactus is quite slow.

        Playing one key on the piano is pretty impressive if it’s your first time on the chair. That being said, the feats speak for themselves. Bass really cannot be defeated and he just gets better and better. A more in depth look at how he is omniversal is tricky. You sort of just need to have a feel for it. When Bass blows stuff up, you can’t just look at the feat, but you have to look at the intensity of the situation. The facial expressions, the art, the feels, etc. When you add it all up, you see that Bass has gotten the job done once again. Pretty sweet eh?

        What I mean by that is that Bass seems to have no limits. He’s never really been defeated in the manga thanks to his Get Ability and he did end up saving everyone after that.

        Goku is not all powerful since Bass can beat him, but he’s the closest thing to it. It’s like the upcoming Unicorn Frappe at Starbucks that I can’t wait to try. It looks amazing, but tastes even better. That’s how Goku’s feats are. They’re extremely impressive, but he’s even tougher than you’d think.

      • The fact that you think he is slow shows you are not an expert.
        If you were an expert, you would know that Galactus has moved at light speed even when his power wasn’t at full capacity. Though he can alter his size, his speed is not lessened by it. He has still been able to move at speeds surpassing light.
        If you ARE an expert, you must know what Galactus’ only weakness is correct?

        No, that is most incorrect.
        You cannot base those feats on visual effects and the orchestrated situations. You base it on what it did in terns of tangibility.
        Numerous characters can and have performed feats similar and greater than Bass’. Whether or not they used overcompensating special effects does not add or take away from the feat itself. The feats are all that matter when you address the strength of an attack. You can’t just discriminate other character feats simply due to the fact that their effects were more subtle. It is not a fair way to differentiate power.
        This isn’t a matter of what you feel.
        This is a matter of what IS.

        You can’t base everything on YOUR perception alone, especially when you have a history of misconceptions in this area. Who cares if the tensions were higher or if the visuals were more over the top?
        The fact that the tensions were high only adds to the fact that he was forced to strain his body in order reach the effect we saw.
        The same can be said with the visuals.
        Expressions showing grinding teeth, pulsating muscles, and more screaming show he put too much effort into something that shouldn’t have required that amount of stress.
        If you saw one guy lift fifty pounds with a massive amount of strain to the point of feeling pain in the upper body, while a woman was able to lift that amount of mass effortlessly and still had enough stamina to celebrate, the latter would be perceived as the strongest of the two and may even be capable of lifting more.

        That being said, Eru has performed feats like these too.
        He sank the island of Numenor, destroyed Ar-Pharazon’s entire warship armada, broke off the realms of Aman and Tol Eressea from the Arda, removed Sauron’s chief ability to resume his deceitful form, and changed the Earth from flat to round all in the span of a few pages.
        (If you know anything about physics, giving the world roundness is a big deal.)

      • Trust me, making the world round isn’t a big deal. At least not when discussed on this high level of power.

        Galactus’ only weakness is that he’s always hungry and keeps getting weaker by the second. You can camp him out Call of Duty style and he’ll eventually faint. His other weaknesses are that he’s slow and not too smart. Now, you mention the FTL stuff, but I’ll counter with literally every animated appearance and every time he crashed to Earth to fight the FF. Spider-Man could move faster than him there. See, the problem is that in space everyone is FTL because there’s no air resistance and artists like to show off. What really counts are whether they can move that way on land or not and Galactus has always been found to be lacking in that area.

        The screaming and pulsating muscles just show that the heroes are trying to psych out the villains. Whenever they yell “It’s not that serious” before powering up, they’re effectively telling the audience to grab their popcorn. It’s not about saying that some feats are better than others, but some are just better than others. You can have two characters blow up a planet. One of them does it with Arthur animation and the other has Ufotable at the helm. The latter is going to be a whole lot more impressive. You could have Beyonder destroy a solar system with a slow motion wink or Goku while bleeding and yelling just barely break it in half. The Goku one is infinitely more impressive and counts for a lot more. Context and effects are really important when feats are considered.

        I won’t deny that Eru has a cool name.

      • @DarkLK
        Really?
        Huh…
        I was completely unaware of that!
        I think I’ve been veering my attention from DC after the cinematic fallout it had with BvS for too long.

        Guess I should take some time to refresh myself on the lore and whatnot.

        Thanks for the info BTW.

      • Oh…, so you don’t know much about physics.
        Great…

        Anyway, you’re half right with Galactus…
        Actually, you’re only a quarter right…
        Well,…it might be even less than that tbh :/

        Even at his weakest, Galactus can go a month without needing to devour energy.
        In fact, he has shown to have possess the capacity to go months without eating.
        (Read Fantastic Four Vol 1 #243 to learn more)

        However, now that Galactus has evolved into the Lifebringer and has obtained the complete and full power of his being, his stats are off the charts now. In his base form, while he could make himself exceptionally powerful, his strength directly correlated with how much he devours. That’s why he is strong when fighting in certain battles and weaker in others. He hasn’t ingested enough energy and is often confronted due to his search for such sustenance.
        Now, thanks to this new upgrade, his stamina is always at maximum capacity and his power is on par with that of his former superiors effortlessly.
        In layman’s terms, he doesn’t need to eat anymore AND his power is at an immensely powerful level.
        (Read the Ultimates (2016) #’s 1-3 to learn more)

        As for Galactus’ intelligence, it would appear as though you know little about that as well. Galactus is a genius in technology that is vastly superior to that of other terrestrial races. Even Reed Richards, the highest intellect on Earth even against Doctor Doom and Hank Pym, had difficulty understanding Galactus’ most rudimentary inventions.
        Galactus even has an entire laboratory in his Worldship, Taa II.
        That coupled with having experience dating back to the universe’s creation leaves him as the superior mind. You can deny him being fast, but you most certainty cannot deny his vast intellect.
        Though, I don’t understand where you got the idea that he has a knack for comedy.

        Now, onto speed, it would be wise not to use the animated shows as source material when trying o see how powerful a character is. They comic book adaptations are notorious for making heroes and villains weaker in order to make them less overwhelming for the kids. They also use this stunt in order to give certain characters of a more popular standing point a chance to make their big beau and contribute to the cause like any cheesy kids TV show. In reality, if Galactus’ comic book adaptation were placed in this scenario, Ghost Rider wouldn’t stand a chance at all.

        Nnnnnnnnnoooooo….
        A person capable of rational thought would obviously pick the Beyonder. If he can decimate an entire solar system with a wink, he would be classified as stronger if we’re measuring from the laughably embarrassing display you described for Goku. Not only would the Beyonder have the capacity to break through that rock with a mere finger flick, if he were to exert the same amount of effort Goku did when he barely cracked that rock, he would probably punch every neighboring solar system into extinction.

        I mean…c’mon. It’s…pretty obvious that the Beyonder would be the smarter option. If you were a person recruiting people for a mission and you needed someone skilled an strong enough to combat a group of cybernetic ninjas, you’d test their strength against a similar challenge.
        For a final test, you have numerous stone targets the combatants must destroy. Out of the two black belts remaining, if one is incapable of performing the necessary strength test of destroying at least one of the twelve stones and even injures their hands in the process, while the other black belt destroys all targets without even needing to ease the pain on his knuckles and heels, you’d pick the latter knowing they have enough force AND skill to breach the enemy’s armor.
        You wouldn’t pick the other individual. If he barely had enough power and stamina management to break one rock, why would you trust him against an army of robotic martial arts warriors?

        In addition to that, Eru has been assisting his children every step of the way. Good always triumphs over evil because he stands for what is just. He has been able to make examples of his power before and has even received confirmation from Tolkien himself. It was even stated that Eru was the one who made it so that Gollum fell into the fire with the One Ring.

        Even Google agrees to Eru’s possession of absolute power.

        https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=eru+il%C3%BAvatar+weapon&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LSz9U3MM2Njzes0pLPTrbSzy6IzynXz8kvKYpPzkgsSkwuSS2yKk9NLMjPAwDpUxVbLwAAAA

        https://www.google.com/search?q=Omnipotence&oq=Omnipotence&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3j69i59&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

        Fun Fact: In Quenya, Eru means “He that Is Alone” and Iluvatar means “the Father of All”.

      • You’re not gonna be surprised, but I’m basically failing physics atm. It’s ruining my 3.6 GPA. Booooooooooo. I can’t stand physics. I like the subject, but I can’t stand it as a class. 4 question mid-term worth 30% of the entire grade? You’ve got to be kidding me. We’re zipping through different chapters every day and it all looks like jibberish.

        I’ll settle for being 1% right. That’ll look good on my resume anyway. Galactus doesn’t live up to his own hype. He’s always hungering and certainly can’t last a month at his weakest. Mr. Fantastic’s going to have to study up some more. The new power up for Galactus sounds pretty cool though. At the very least, the writers can’t use him as a McDonald’s commercial anymore with how many McDoubles he can consume. As for his “great” intellect, I’m not sold. I get the whole inventions thing and he was always a scholar even before he became the mighty Galactus, but just because you’re “official” smart doesn’t mean that you’re street smart. Case in point, I didn’t get a perfect 2400 on the SAT and if it were a perfect assessment of smarts then I would have. Galactus just never seems all that smart because he lets the heroes mess with him constantly, but that’s thanks to the writers. I’d be more impressed if he figured stuff out all the time like Batman.

        How about this, Goku moves a boulder while he’s just a kid!

        http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/a/aa/TTB1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100116074757

        Look, I’m not saying that the Beyonder is a bad guy. He seems like a good kid and he’s got his life all figured out. The problem is that he relies on his cosmic abilities and isn’t used to fighting in the ring like Goku is. It’s like when you take a guy like Harry Mitch and put him in the ring against Rocky Balboa. Harry may be stronger, but Rocky knows what it means to be in a fight. Goku could just grab Beyonder and throw him out of the planet. Beyonder would be in so much shock and confusion that he would barely even register the fact that he was taken down for the count. He’s not really on Goku’s level and that’s because Goku gives everything 110%. As you said, Beyonder never has to put in the effort so he really doesn’t know what to do or how to handle things. He’s really from a different world when it comes to skills.

        Wait a minute, we can’t give Eru credit for Gollum being a klutz. Eru had absolutely nothing to do with that. However, this is a perfect example to expose the scene as empty hype. See, this is what the cosmic beings want us to think. They want us to think that every accidental action was caused by them when they had nothing to do with it. TOAA is the biggest offender. He’s never fought in the ring before yet he claims to be the strongest. It’s fake…it’s absolutely not true…and that’s the scary part.

    • stats for pr reac Beyonder

      Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Reality Manipulation, Immortality, Durability Negation, Elemental Manipulation, True Flight, Regeneration, Space-Time Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Non-Corporeal, Omnipresence (while within the Beyond Realm), Matter Manipulation, Teleportation, Creation, Concept Manipulation, Causality Manipulation

      Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is in fact another Multiverse. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)

      Speed: Immeasurable, Omnipresent within the Beyond-Realm

      Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

      Striking Strength: High Hyperversal

      Durability: High Hyperverse level

      Stamina: Limitless

      Range: High Hyperversal

      Standard Equipment: None

      Intelligence: Questionable. Presumably Nigh-Omniscient (He claimed to be fully omniscient, but formerly did not know about the regular Marvel Multiverse, and had to learn everything by experience.)

      Weaknesses: none known.

      • and he could encase goku in neutron star material. i won’t bore you with the math but neutron star material weights about 4 billion tons per teaspoon. goku is 5’7, convert than into cubic feet, turn teaspoon into tablespoon, into gallon, into cubic feet, let’s say he encases goku with a extra foot….and boom! goku is now encased in neutron star material and it weighs about 2,205,941,760,000,000 to the sixth power tons. goku’s beat feat(that i know of) is about 10 septillion pounds. *mic drop*

      • How would he get Goku in the box? Lets not forget that Goku is a whole lot faster than TOAA and his physical abilities are on a completely different level as well. If anything, Goku would put him in the box and TOAA couldn’t break out. The average senior citizen can’t even bend steel so TOAA would really be trapped.

    • That feat always comes back because it’s just sooo impressive! Seriously, I could post that scan for hours. Shaking up the planet is a pretty good start though

  17. @Dreager1 You have shown nothing that proves that Goku is omniversal. We constantly get the same, generic scan of Cell destroying a solar system. We’re talking OMNIVERSAL. Not planet level/solar system level. Have any scans of Goku having omniversal feats? No.

  18. because goku can’t go that fast. why you ask? well for one he doesn’t have the Speed Force. the flash does. so he can pretty much go as fast as he wants to. and goku has never broken the time barer.

    • The Speed Force isn’t as fast as Goku tho. Lets think about this for a sec, how could the speed force ever hope to keep up with a guy who can destroy whole solar systems? Goku has outraced ki blasts and all kinda of crazy villains throughout the years. Flash gets tripped up by humans like Deathstroke and taken down by opponents like Captain Cold. There’s no comparison here

      • this is the biggest slip up you made. so far. the Speed Force keeps atoms together, it keeps the universe expanding. the flash and others use almost nothing. the speed force made the flash faster than speed. yes, he was going so fast that he was going faster than speed. he was going trans-time velocity. the flash thinks in an attosecond. For context, an attosecond is to a second what a second is to about 31.71 billion years. 1 attosecond: the time it takes for light to travel the length of two hydrogen atoms. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjK6N7A767TAhVC54MKHQQZAxUQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicvine.gamespot.com%2Fbarry-allen%2F4005-22804%2Fforums%2Fflash-max-speed-704188%2F&psig=AFQjCNGn4RInnNqeawzJpB1SkJ5WdaIfNg&ust=1492634169248458

        he is faster than space and time. he can go faster than 23,759,449,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, xc Quattuordecillion times the speed of light.
        he out ran creation and the special death made just for speedsters. and when he out ran instant teleportation he was only using a bit of the Speed Force. and the flash can steal speed making the person immobile and speeding him up. goku has nothing on flash.

      • Lets calm down here, I’ve made much bigger slip ups. Remember when I said that Goku could beat the entire Marvel and DC universes teaming up? Well, I guess that wasn’t a slip up. Either way, Flash can’t handle this level of power. Seriously, he’d have better luck trying to run away from Goku. Goku has never tried to outrun time and he has outrun Butta, the fastest in the universe. Goku even outsped Frieza which is an incredible feat. Meanwhile, we have Flash getting speedblitzed by the Music Meister.

        Goku would easily out run such a villain.

      • That’s one of those fake feats though. Let me show my counter.

        If he could perceive such small amounts of time, then he would never get hit like this

      • i’m talking about Wally West not Barry Allan. that comic is a compleatly different one. and he was nerfed a ton in the show. please refer the the OP

      • Fair enough, but Wally West has also had the same thing happen to him many times. Trust me, that scan is just hype, it’s not accurate.

      • Yes because it didn’t really happen or rather it shouldn’t have. Could have should have would have, they’re all valid counter points. Remember when Cell destroyed a solar system? That wasn’t hype, it was a feat. The Flash example is hype because it goes against every single appearance in previous comics. It’s the author trying to one up his buddies, but it just doesn’t work and must be disregarded.

      • Jay Wile is a guy who wrights “science” books. if you could call it that. he lies and dismisses evidence. like you. feats are feats and can’t be dismissed.

      • I don’t see how I sound like the guy then to be honest. Well, there are feats and then there are “feats”. Distinguishing between them can be difficult

  19. Dreager1, I have to say that you are the most utterly ignorant people I have ever seen. I fell like I want to puke at your face just from the mere thoughts of your very existence. Like seriously,you really think Goku ,who’s absolute best feat at his strongest can only shake a whole universe,can easily solo 99.9% of all fiction,where even 0.5% of fictions have characters like ZeedMillenniummon from Digimon who literally eats an infinite number of universes as breakfast. And he is nowhere near even the 10th strongest character in fictions. You literally think Goku can easily one shot TOAA with a single Kamehameha blast when it is just a simple blast that has no special abilities other than blow up things and that beings that are much weaker than TOAA on an incomparably massive scale can straight up eat the beam like it was nothing. Goku is not even the strongest character in his own world and could stand up to the likes of Zeno. And even Zeno himself is nothing but pure annoyance to most characters like ZeedMillenniummon, who as I mentioned earlier eats infinite multiverse on a regular basis. If you really still thinks Goku can solo 99.9% of fiction , then you might as well go back to school for kindergarten . In other word, forget you

      • wow. LM is Satan. the fallen angel that lead the rebellion ageist Jesus. he is immortal, nay-omnipotent, and has high reality warping powers. and he can fight hand to hand fairly well.

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