One Above All vs Goku

One Above All

One Above All has some pretty “awesome” power, but in the end he’s not quite a match for Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha Wave and it does some pretty heavy duty damage. It’s not something you want to mess with. Goku has beaten guys much stronger than the One Above All and lived to tell about it. Goku wins.

Fanfic version below

Cosmic vs Saiyan!


879 thoughts on “One Above All vs Goku


    • What makes you constantly assume TOAA is hype? There’s no proof it is unbeatable, but also no proof it can be beaten. Based on what Living Tribunal says, he’s no hype. Why does LT never want to speak of his name and keeps bringing him up when another being claims there the strongest being in existence?

      TOAA isn’t just an old man. You keep assuming that’s the form he takes all the time when he doesn’t. He took the form of an abstract as I’ve said before when he was reviving Beta Ray Bill. What makes you think he can’t shapeshift into another form?

      • Because we haven’t seen him throw a real punch before. He just sticks to creating things and that’s not a winning strategy. LT brings him up because its convenient as it makes people fear him. We need proof that TOAA can shapeshift into combat ready forms.

  2. I could write a description of TOAA. I should have brought this up long time ago but I forgot. I can’t remember if it was from Marvel: The End or the Offical Handbook but I remember it was from an offical Marvel comic/source.

    There was a time when Thanos got the Heart of The Universe. In this moment he became omnipotent, omniscient, everything. He was the whole universe. He was the rock, he was the flower, he was Spiderman swinging on his web, he was the Skrull Kid laughing.

    He was all times and everything. He declared himself the supreme being. He destroyed the Living Tribunal with ease. He even travelled beyond reality and watched the string of destiny, the very fabric of actuality. And then he realized the truth:

    He was not the supreme being. He was nothing but a pawn of something more powerful. There was one thing even he could not break. And that thing was necessity. And he realized that everything, there was, was flawed. That destruction was inevitable. And he was in the middle of it. The more he fought, the more hopeless the battle became. And the more he fought the destruction, the more he became the tool. Till he was the root of it himself, he realized he was the one who destroyed everything. Then there was nothing anymore, no time, no space, just him in never-ending darkness, Thanos was confronted with a decision: create it anew without him or suffer loneliness beyond time and space. He decided to do the later, cursing the The One Above All who had planned all of this in the beginning.

    That is the power of TOAA. He is more than infinity. He is more than causality. He is the master of the plot himself. And no matter how powerful you are, you cannot escape this single truth: The plot dictates and you do as told.

    Otherwise there is nothing. No story, no people, no creation, no space. Stories are the core of everything there is, even we in our universe are bounded by its laws. You can argue if the story is planned in advance by some supreme being called fate or destiny. Or it is written by ourselves as we live our lives. Argue, if t is cut in stone or fluid. But it is there. It is on TV, in books, in our heads. We tell these stories to each other everyday. It is the summary of everything there was and will be. And in our heads it becomes its own reality. Even if just a short time. Who is to say that a daydream is less real than everything else we perceive? Just because we define it that way? Just because it is different for each of us?

    To cite the bible, a book written in ancient times about what people believed was the most power force in all reality: “At the beginning there was the word. And the word was with God. And the word is God.” The word is a metaphor for the story. And the story is creation. No matter if imagination or reality. And this is also the greatest gift given to mankind: To be creators ourselves.

    And at this crossroads, between fiction and reality, at the core of the story itself resides TOAA. And nothing that my mind could ever imagine is more powerful than that.

    • It’s an interesting story, but I have to disagree with it. I’m a Christian so I believe in God. To me he is All Powerful and the only entity as such. In fiction, we have seen nothing of TOAA to suggest that he is of such a high rank. He has a lot of legends and lore, but he never manages to live up to any of it and instead he just resides in the hype. As for Thanos, he was basically at the top. We can’t say that the plot was guiding him because it’ll just stick you in a logic loop.

  3. Thanks with HOTU was scared of TOAA in the story written in Marvel: The End or Officak Handbook. Notice how he( Thanos) was banished into a never ending darkness by TOAA with no creation, space, time or nothing.

    • It seems like he may have just tricked Thanos then though. Thanos seemed to have gotten paranoid once he got the Gauntlet, so I imagine that feeling was even greater with the HOTU. Perhaps he locked himself in darkness thanks to that.

      • No. It was from TOAA. Did your Ben read the story? TOAA was the only being there with Thanos… in never-ending darkness. Explain to me why then TOAA was the only being who could stop Thanos with the HOTU.

      • Because it’s all mind games. He convinced Thanos that he was the strongest and since the HOTU lets you do that kind of thing, it made TOAA the strongest.

  4. He didn’t convince Thanos. Dude, learn to read. Thanos with HOTU and TOAA were the only brings in that never-ending darkness. Explain to me why TOAA was still there in the darkness and no other hero/villain/abstract was. Thanos was killing everyone in the Marvel Multiverse until he met TOAA.

      • No, I think you just love Bass and Goku to much to accept that they lose. It goes like this for every Bass and Goku thread. A lot of people on Reddit and other sites use that argument story against people who say TOAA is powerless. Heck, it’s used as a side-bar for his fights. Bass and Goku could solo all of fiction and are the strongest beings in all of media? Heh. You constantly use his fight with Hubstyle Megaman to prove that he can’t destroy the Omniverse.

      • I’m a big Bass and Goku fan. They’re awesome, but they just happen to be super strong. It’s not because I’m a big fan of theirs or anything. The Hubstyle fight was pretty cool right? Good times…

      • You always admit Bass and Goku are the strongest beings in all of fiction. Have proof of them destroying a multiverse? Probably not.

      • Their are tons of characters in Marvel/DC who would kick Bass and Goku’s [redacted]. Their are characters in both universes who have multiversal feats. You just ignore that they don’t have multiversal feats and proceed to say “their basically all powerful.”

      • I have to disagree. Superman’s the strongest character in all of Marvel and DC and he can’t beat Goku. It’s a stomp in Goku’s favor.

  5. Here’s another image of his size: You see the last image? That white stuff that Mandrakk is falling through? That’s the Primal Monitor, it stretches to infinity.

    • All right. Cosmic and meta stuff is good on paper, but it doesn’t help you in a fight against someone like Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha wave which can destroy a whole solar system. I’d like to see a cosmic being try and wish that away.

      • Hmm, using la-la-la tactics? The Kamehameha wave isn’t that strong when you compare it to other attacks and weapons. There are many cosmic beings out there that could defeat Goku easily, and also don’t forget that the Kamehameha wave isn’t the strongest attack or weapon in all of fiction.

      • They’re super effective. In all seriousness though, Kamehameha is always my first and last go to point for winning debates. I’d say that it is easily one of the strongest attacks in all of fiction. Cosmic beings can’t even live up to their own hype, much less stop a Kamehameha.

    • The Kamehameha isn’t the strongest attack in all of fiction. There are thousands of attacks/weapons capable of doing more damage. Also, I would love to see the Kamehameha destroy the Observable Universe.

      • 1. Side effect of the Glory if it doesn’t replace it’s wielder or if the new controller uses it to destroy all of existence.
        2. The Shining Trapezohedron (Demonbane) as it can destroy multiverses with every swing. I could post a quote from the Novels.
        3. Giga Drill Break as it is 20x the size of the Observable Universe.
        4. A pocket dimension shattering attack from Hulk.
        5. Mandrakk’s laser blast.

      • 1. Still not impressed by the Glory.
        2. I don’t think it could get past a Kamehameha though.
        3. Size isn’t everything.
        4. Goku’s broken pocket dimensions with his Kamehameha.
        5. Kamehameha would pierce through it.

      • 1. The Glory wasn’t bad, but it doesn’t have the same concentrated energy that the Kamehameha possesses.
        2. We just haven’t had an opportunity for it yet.
        3. The Drill has met its match in the past.
        5. Absolutely!

        I don’t care for the term personally. Some people just really believe in the power of DBzzzzzzz

      • 1. Energy isn’t needed.
        2. Then it doesn’t count.
        3. It took another equal drill of it’s size to destroy it.
        4. Okay.
        5. Sounds like someone doesn’t have knowledge on comics…

        Dbztards are hardcore fans of DBZ that they never want Goku to lose.

      • 2. Why not?
        3. Right, but that opens the door for the Kamehameha.
        5. I’m probably one of the biggest comic book enthusiasts of all time.

        I prefer to call them hardcore DBZ fans. They know how strong Goku is and try to spread the word.

      • 2. If it hasn’t had the opportunity yet, then why do you count it as proof? Don’t rely on fan assumptions.
        3. The Kamehameha has never done multiversal feats.
        5. Then why do you think Goku could beat Mandrakk?

        Dbztards don’t accept that Goku would lose to Marvel.

      • 2. Put it this way, the Kamehameha was able to take on Cell and Buu. It was able to wipe out whole Solar Systems and that was way back in Arc 2. It’s gotten stronger since then.
        3. It’s never been given the chance.
        5. Goku’s way stronger than Mandrakk. It wouldn’t even be much of a fight thanks to the speed difference and Goku’s incredible power.

        Hardcore DBZ fans know that Goku could crush Marvel, myself included. Marvel and DC are okay, but they’re no Anime.

      • 3. We have to use power scaling though. It just makes sense.
        5. Honestly, that was just embarrassing for Savitar. I call moments like that plot hax.

      • 3. Okay but I doubt any multiversal destruction will come eventually.
        5. Flash probably needs a whole army of speedsters to stop Savitar.

      • 3. It is hard to get tot hat level.
        5. True. Savitar is just too fast at this point. He shouldn’t be able to win no matter how many they grab unless they all get a power up. Flash claims he is the fastest man on Earth so he needs to start living up to that title. Maybe Superman can give him some tips.

    • I’ve been to that site a few times. It’s pretty good, but they highly overrate abstract entities like the One Above All and the Presence. Still pretty good though, but they need more cred for the street level fighters or physical beings like Goku or Shenron.

      • Eh, if anything that post just seems like it’s someone who’s been forced to “Hold That L” (Loss) after a debate. If anything, it shows why MLP is such a powerful franchise. Should I link the theme song?

      • Eh, if anything that post just seems like it’s someone who’s been forced to “Hold That L” (Loss) after a debate. If anything, it shows why MLP is such a powerful franchise. Should I link the theme song?

      • Link the theme song. Anyways, does this link work?

        “Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare to imagine…”

      • That’s like saying he’s lying when he’s not. Many top beings like Living Tribunal, Uatu, Odin, Adam Warlock, etc speak highly of TOAA. They’ve all admitted they’re inferior to him.

      • He’s not necessarily lying though. Here’s an example. I tell you that there is always someone stronger. You agree. Next, I say that by this logic, I am not the best Super Smash Bros player of all time and I shudder to think how strong the next guy would be. I may be the strongest though, it’s just logical that what I said must be true right?

      • Yes, but Living Tribunal and the other top beings know TOAA. TOAA created them. So they should know that TOAA is stronger than them.

      • Why would they want to protect his legacy? He isn’t powerless. It’s just like people who worship God and/or gods. Gods aren’t powerless. If they were, why would people worship a powerless being?

      • Because TOAA may be a pretender to the throne. True, God doesn’t need anyone to protect his legacy because he’s real and made all of us. He is all powerful. TOAA on the other hand has never given us any reason to actually believe that he is as strong as he says he is.

  6. Thanks! Christmas was awesome.

    Fourth wall breaking is cool, but let’s not forget that it would never affect the writers/producers in actuality/reality.

    The speech Grant Morrison made was about the Primal Monitor. It could be a cool fight between him and TOAA.

      • Well, Bass blew up an island just by powering up and that was without trying. If we assume that he only used .001% of his power to do so..the possibilities are endless. He got so many super forms and FTL feats that we can’t even begin to understand his true power

      • Actually, the possibilities aren’t endless because you provided an end to his power.
        100 divided by 0.001 is equal to 100,000.

        Does that mean Bass can only destroy 100,000 islands?
        If so, where did you even get that number from?
        If he’s powering up, doesn’t it mean he gets a greater INCREASE in power, thus meaning it is higher than that?
        Why are we scaling from that one feat when there are several that are better than that one?
        Why did you chose that one above his greater ones?

        I have other questions that I want to ask, but these are the more important ones.

      • Well, the problem is that we just don’t know. Bass may not have had to use any of his power to destroy the island since it was just from powering up. The .01 seconds thing was a speed feat that happened towards the beginning of the series as mentioned by Protoman. The .01 I used here was just a purely hypothetical number.
        I like pulling out lower feats once in a while to get the ball rolling before scaling up. We could have started out with a better feat of course, but this buys a little more time for us to really examine it through and through.

      • This version of Eternity became the embodiment of the Omniverse.

        And you got owned again because you can’t powerscale and island buster to omniverse level.

      • hahahahahaahahahahaahah! sorry its so funny how you think Goku would win agent someone who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. and is the most powerful being in the Marvel Multiverse. and His powers are unlimited, incalculable and immeasurable.

        The One-Above-All is also Omnipresent which means that there exists only one, and in all realities at once.
        people with more than infinite power get pwned by him.

      • I accept your apology. TOAA is all hype and while his powers are incalculable and immeasureable…it’s because he doesn’t have powers

      • ha! no powers? well lets see, he created the entire marvel universe, he revived Ben Grimm after he was killed, it was said he has more power than everyone combined, he restored earth 616 after is was atomized, he just gave peter Parker all the knowledge on earth, and i could go on on on.

      • all hype? oh yeah guys! God is all hype! ha ha ha! you know the guy who made everything? hype! ha ha ha!

  7. Yes. And also, becoming the Omniverse itself isn’t a good feat? Lol no. Your wrong again. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would literally need to kill everyone in it in order to destroy Eternity.

    Where’s the powerscaling from island to Omniverse level? You fail again as you can’t post scans to do that.

  8. By becoming the Omniverse, Goku would have to destroy everything and every single being in existence to beat this version of Eternity.

    Show the powerscaling already.

    • I dunno about that. TOAA would still be conscious so just kicking and punching the air would hurt him.

      Well, Bass blew up a Black Hole once and he’s been shown to be pretty strong through the years. I’m confident that he could destroy a lot more when we consider all of the experience and level ups that he’s gotten. Hubstyle, Beast Out, Dark Mode…Bass is loaded with strength and quite frankly, I think we’ve only seen a mere glimmer of what he can do. Beyonder can destroy multiverses and he’s weaker than Goku who is weaker than Megaman who is weaker than Bass. Ergo, Bass is the strongest being in all of media and that’s quite possibly the scariest part of all

    • They’ve never been given the chance. That’s like saying that I couldn’t eat 2 Cheeseburgers now because I’ve never done it before. LT is too slow to land a hit

      • he can’t move at all. like not even the atoms move. his blood doesn’t move. his heart doesn’t beat. can he fight like that?

      • Sure, his power level doesn’t come from any of that. It’s his spirit energy and he can always summon it up at will. Then everyone dies

      • oh my gosh. goku can’t live without his heart pumping, or his blood moving. and how would goku hold up to superman? deathbattle said superman would win. and superman destroyed a solar system with a SNEEZE.

      • Whoa there, you don’t want to bring up Death Battle. That just adds more evidence to Goku winning. Goku’s heart is pumping and his blood will be moving thanks to his ki so I think he’s good. Lets not go and underestimate Goku here. He’s faster and stronger than good ole Supes

      • so how does goku hold up to that? i’m trying to see how far you will go to say goku would win.

      • Goku would hold up really well. He is the Saiyan of legend after all. Superman could sneeze, but Goku would just power up and the wind would blow away Superman’s germs.

      • That wouldn’t make sense though. Goku doesn’t need to move to use ki. Is the hypothetical that Goku is already dead, but his corpse is being placed in a fight?

  9. The One-Above-All is the prevalent memetic name for the supreme God of the fictional Marvel Comics mythology.

    [edit] Publication history

    The title “One-Above-All” itself was coined in Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), written by Steve Englehart, and the entity visibly manifested in Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004).

    The entity appears in The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007).

    [edit] Fictional character biography

    During an encounter with the mystic hero and Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange, the cosmic entity Eternity tells Strange: “I and my brother, Death, comprise all of your reality, mystic! Neither he nor I are God, for God rules all realities!”

    When the pregnant Susan Storm feared for her husband’s likely death at the hands of the “all-powerful” Silver Surfer, Uatu the Watcher told her that there was only one being that was truly “all-powerful”, and that “His only weapon…is love!”

    Doctor Strange, after being bitten by the vampire Dracula, apparently invokes this entity in desperation: “In the name of the Tetragrammaton, Jehovah! O Great Unmanifest, hear my plea!” which called upon holy power in the form of a crucifix strong enough to cure both himself and Wong of vampirism and seemingly destroy Dracula himself, later calling upon this power once again to purge and slay the N’Garai-empowered Shadowqueen. Strange, after surviving a fierce battle with the Asgardian trickster Loki, sees Thor and states: “And yet, some omnipotent power has so arranged the universe that good must always prevail! For every mighty villain, there is a mightier hero! For every menacing enemy of mankind, there is a fighting Avenger!” In a confrontation with the demonic Chthon in his own realm, Strange, though very nearly succumbing to Chthon’s darkness, was saved by his faith in “something far subtler and far more majestic than the Great Shadow.”

    While confronting the vampire Dracula, the angel Janus has made mention to a higher “Master” he serves: “But now you are closer than ever to spreading a new reign of terror across this Earth – and that my Master will not allow! For it has been decreed only He shall stand over this world. None but He!” When Dracula at long last manages to seemingly slay Janus after a fierce battle, Janus tells him, “It isn’t from Hell I come from, Dracula. There is another side which fights this endless battle between good and evil…and it is that side which will be victorius. For, I have seen the future…and I know…I know…I know…” subsequently releasing his spirit to be apparently absorbed by Domini’s portrait of Christ, with Christ’s eyes shining with the same heavenly light Janus did, causing Dracula to at long last know what power he had truly been fighting all this time.

    In ancient times, to punish the people of Gehenna for worshiping the savage Annunaki deity Ba’al through ritualistic human sacrifice, the Hand of God, empowered by “unbreakable steel and divine might”, is sent to destroy Ba’al. In recent times the anti-hero Wolverine, after directly praying for aid, appears to be possessed by the Hand of God’s spirit, and slays the restored Ba’al. An enemy of Wolverine, the genius-level Gorgon, devised a mathematical formula at the age of thirteen that proves, beyond all doubt, the existence of God.

    In the aftermath of the Infinity Gauntlet crossover series, during the trial of Adam Warlock, the Living Tribunal states: “I represent forces that dwarf even your might. My authority comes from on high.”

    The Cosmic Cube Kubik, on a tour displaying various higher powers to Kosmos, states: “The most supreme power that can be comprehended, the Living Tribunal exists in all multiverses simultaneously, always prepared to enact judgment. Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare imagine.”

    When Thor once compared himself and Odin to various other gods, abstract entities, and cosmic beings in terms of power, he notes: “And ’tis said that a being, called the Living Tribunal—the final judge—hath the power to enforce his will ‘pon any cosmos he doth judge! And ’tis said his power is supreme in all the Multiverse. Even I, son of one of the mightiest of all gods, find it impossible to conceive of such levels of power! And ’tis a humbling thought to consider how much greater the Creator of all Universes must be than that of all of His creations combined!”

    When Jake Olsen pleaded for Odin to not send him back into Mephisto’s realm, Odin, after denying he himself was “God”, instead allows Olsen’s soul to ascend to a higher plane, responding: “Nay, mortal. There is a power far greater than mine – and it is to Him I commend thy spirit now. Let peace envelop thy being, mortal, for thou hast suffered enow.”

    The Eternal Thanos realizes he has been subtly manipulated by an unseen supreme power, whom he refers to as “the Almighty”, into destroying, and then recreating the universe without a fundamental flaw, initially caused by the resurrection of Wonder Man, that allowed characters to be resurrected quite easily and created an imbalance between life and death.

    The entity apparently appears before the superhero team the Fantastic Four when they visit Heaven to retrieve the soul of Ben Grimm, in the appearance of the Fantastic Four’s co-creatorJack Kirby.

    After a final confrontation with the brutal demoness Asteroth left Beta Ray Bill at the brink of death, a glowing man in white robes appears before him and heals him while assuring him that this would be a new beginning for his people and himself, subsequently claiming the souls of the decimated Korbinites and sending his own spirit into the body of a human.

    When Peter Parker’s (the alter ego of Spider-Man) Aunt May lies close to death, a seemingly all-knowing homeless man appears before Parker, and when Parker asks the entity about its identity, it states that he already knows the answer, and manifests in the resplendent form depicted above. Unfortunately, even this encounter with “God” was not enough to truly sway Peter from his inner anguish, and out of pure desperation, he and Mary Jane give up their marriage to the demon Mephisto (who claims that their marriage was made holy in “the eyes of He who I hate most” and that thus erasing it would be a triumph beyond all others for him).

    The gods of Zenn-La refer to a First Mover who ignited the fire cosmic and by its light brought “orbit, organization, and order” to the universe from a beginning of primal chaos, and who extrapolated the End Times being heralded by the Nil Star. As the alien deity Glory threatened to absorb and destroy Thor during the events of Chaos War, Donald Blake and Becca Steinhardt were able to, through a united prayer, call out to the power of the “creator of all men and gods” that resided within “each and every one” of humanity, power sufficient to destroy Glory himself from within.

    [edit] References

    ^ Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13 (April 1976), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four #72 (1968)
    ^ Religious Affiliation of the Watcher, Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #14
    ^ Doctor Strange: Volume 2 #44
    ^ Strange Tales #123 (1964), Marvel Comics
    ^ Doctor Strange (vol. 3) #90
    ^ Tomb of Dracula #52 (Dec. 1977)
    ^ Wolverine: Volume 2 #13-16
    ^ Marvel Appendix: Ba’al and Hand of God
    ^ Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #4
    ^ Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 (Feb. 1992), Marvel Comics
    ^ Fantastic Four Annual #23 (1990), Marvel Comics
    ^ The Mighty Thor Annual #14 (1989), Marvel Comics
    ^ Thor Annual 2000, 2000, Marvel Comics
    ^ Marvel: The End #1 – 6 (May – Aug. 2003)
    ^ Fantastic Four #511 (May 2004)
    ^ Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #6, Marvel Comics
    ^ The Sensational Spider-Man vol. 2, #40 (Oct. 2007)
    ^ “One More Day” — Amazing Spider-Man #544; Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24; The Sensational Spider-Man #41 and Amazing Spider-Man #545 (Oct. 2007 – Jan. 2008), Marvel Comics
    ^ Chaos War: Chaos King #1
    ^ Chaos War: Thor #2, Marvel Comics

    • Alright guys, you might get a kick out of this :), because I have some information that might prove the One Above All is faster than Goku, and could also proves that Eternity, the Living Tribunal, and the Beyonder are faster as well. It may be a stretch, but I am willing to listen to any logical contradictions based on information you have gathered.

      All of the information I have obtained relate to the information given to us on their physiology and how it provides them an extra layer of defense against physical AND metaphysical attacks (with the latter being to some extent).

      • Trust me, you’re not gonna find anything on that. TOAA is just barely faster than Stan Lee…if he is at all. That’s probably up for debate.

      • @Archangel Agreed! I have a theory that TOAA, the Presence, Man of Miracles, and all other omnipotent beings could be one, true omnipotent being with different faces.

      • Well, here’s where thing like that can be proven false (if only for the other three). It all starts with dimensions.

        In spite of the great speed of characters like Goku and Bass, they still must abide by the fundamental forces that govern their world. Though there are some attributes offered and denied to other universes (such as ki, the force, cosmic energy, and the speed force), most of them work in tandem with the conceptual forces of space, matter, gravity, and (most importantly) time.
        As one might imagine, seen as how both the Dragon Ball and the Megaman Manga series are involved with their version of planet Earth, they reside on a 3-dimensional reality, one in which the dimensions are length, width, and depth.

        *(This seems boring at first, but it’ll get more interesting)*

        Basically, because of their physiology and being residents of an existential world of 3-dimensions, they’re beings that are forced to abide by the laws of linear space time.
        However, their are few being that can surpass this limit in space-time. The one most notable for doing so is Flash, due to his connection with the speed force. Via his immense speed, he was capable of transcending the time barrier and traveled to another timeline.
        Unfortunately, characters like Goku and Bass are puppets to time due to their realized state. Regardless of what actions they take in their timeline, they only assist the flow of time rather than pitting against it. Therefore, regardless of how fast they are in their realities, they will still be slower than time.

        So…what does this have to do with Goku being slower than the Living Tribunal? Well, that’s where things get interesting.

        Where Goku and Bass are restricted by time, many of the cosmic entities in marvel are not.
        As shown here, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Master Order, and Master Chaos are in realm beyond time and space. More specifically, in a “16th-dimensional domain at the juncture of Multiversal super-space”.

        What better a place for space deities to hang out 🙂
        This provides a little foresight on why so many cosmic entities are immortal.

        For a 3-dimensional entity, one added dimension in their domain wouldn’t be too much to handle. Though, once that domain receives a FIFTH dimension, that’s where you see the difference. With this added dimension, your perception of anything greater than 3-dimensions is very confused and the environment itself would feel like hell. The object or person you are looking at would be beyond your comprehension, as a 3-dimensional subject is beyond that of a 2-dimensional entity’s perception and effectiveness. In addition to that, they don’t follow the same laws as Goku and Bass do. They are beyond linear time and 3-D distance, as well as the concepts of speed.
        Therefore, from a lower-dimensional viewpoint, they have much greater speed.

        That being said, it surprises me how thorough the writers were with these stories when a great majority of them were created before Dragon Ball first aired and before Megaman got his first game. The narration practically explains everything that’s going on to make sure readers aren’t misinterpreting the events incorrectly. Really puts into perspective the amount of changes employed as time went on.

      • So, your whole argument comes down to the whole dimensions thing. I still say that a good 3D character can take out anyone. There’s a reason why all of these cosmic dudes ultimately decide to become 3D fighters. It’s because 3D is the way to play and has the best physical action. Going to the 16th dimension may be a nice place to hang out, but it’s not somewhere to fight. Theoretical speed from this can be cool, but Goku still has all of the real feats so he’s much faster than TOAA. Time can do what it can to stop him, but it can’t nullify his speed. TOAA can try to move beyond time, but Goku will already be there.

      • Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you’re comment DarkLK.
        I was responding to the Dreager1’s with the introduction.

      • as you where saying, TOAA is not bound my logic ether. he can make something he can’t lift and then lift it. he can take away his powers so he has no powers but still have powers. and i never noticed the LT two or 3 faces

      • They will if they are facing off against foes who can.

        Also, the whole dimensions thing is partially due to my newly acquired interest in quantum physics.

        Hooray for learning!

  10. I don’t know why you are so bent-out-of-shape over the One-Above-All.
    He’s a good guy.
    No…Actually, he’s a GREAT guy. This was especially evident during his encounter with Peter Parker.

    He was kind enough to talk to him and assist him in his life struggles.
    He eased his tension over Aunt May’s life threatening condition.
    He healed his hands when he punched a dumpster out of frustration.
    He treated him to a meal.
    He took him on a journey through time to explain suffering.
    He even laid bare the countless innocent souls Peter saved as Spider-man to remind him of his righteousness. He reminded him of the lives he changed, the people he saved, and hearts he inspired for years.

    I understand if you’re not convinced that the One-Above-All is the all-powerful character of Marvel, but I just don’t see why. Marvel is obviously trying to make it evident that he is the mighty creator of the Multiverse. The Heart of the Universe, the encounter with Peter, his discussion with the Fantastic Four in Heaven, his incorporeal form, his love for all of the Multiverse’s inhabitants, and his MANY subtle references seem to make his status reasonable.
    I mean, why WOULDN’T you like him? He’s super powerful AND he’s a super cool guy.
    Do you have something against the One-Above-All?

    People have thrown a lot of words at you, but I actually want to “talk” in order to understand.

    *As a side note, the ability to create anything is an OP power to have in a fight B) *

    • Eh, I don’t dislike TOAA. He is a nice guy as you’ve mentioned and I do like that he talks such a good game. It shows that he still has some humanity left in him. It’s great that he’s a man of the people and I could picture him saying “Feel the Bern” as he supports the working class. That being said, he’s a man who’s all talk and for that kind of character I prefer to see some arrogance and overconfidence in the mix. TOAA just doesn’t play his cards all that well in that regard. If you’re going to be a nice guy, then you’ve gotta do something. If you’re gonna be more antagonistic and mean, then you’ve also gotta do something. He makes everyone else do the work.

      I don’t particularly like TOAA, but I do find him to be funny. I have nothing against the guy. I find him to be extremely weak, that’s all.

      I don’t think creating things is a great thing to have though. You can make swords and stuff, but destructive abilities are always a whole lot more useful to have.

      • C’mon Dreager1. Use your head 🙂
        What kind of omnipotent creator/father would he be if he had to solve ALL of the problems his children have?
        Moreover, why would he want to physically harm the very children he created and loves with his own power? I think he’d look like a pretty bad father. lol

        For instance, TOAA came to Peter because he was on the verge of a complete fallout that would result in him hanging up his mask. Can you imagine the MU without a Spider-man?
        I can. It’s bad 😦
        That’s why he stepped in. One of his most heroic and pure heroes was in a state of conflict that could mean his end. He needed to step in to make sure his place in the universe was preserved. If he didn’t, there was a strong possibility that those thousands of people he showed peter would be somewhere else.

        Either way, is it really safe to assume the One-Above-All is weak? I mean, if the guy can create beings capable of destroying universes, why wouldn’t he be able to enhance his OWN powers to an even higher degree.
        If I had omnipotence, I’d try my hand in that.

        As for the whole creation thing, you’re thinking too small.
        You need to be more imaginative dude!
        With that kind of power, you can manifest ANYTHING you want into reality.

        You could create a barrage of supernovas. (*In case you didn’t know, the strongest supernova destroyed a galaxy.)

        You could create white holes. (*In case you didn’t know this too, white holes are singularities that expel vast energy indefinitely.)

        You could create an impenetrable force field that is skin tight around your body.

        You could create impenetrable armor on your body capable of flying faster than the speed.

        With creation of that magnitude, the possibilities are endless.
        You can remake your physical body with infinite strength, speed, reflexes, stamina, and superpowers in general.
        If you can make a reality with infinite layers, infinity shouldn’t be an obstacle for you.
        You could recreate a composite body for yourself with the Kamehameha, Double Vanishing World, and Rasengan multiplied by 1,000,000!

        Why should creation be limited to outside one’s body? Why can’t one use the power of creation more…well…creatively? With experience, it seems like a cool idea one would have.

      • …A…are…are we still talking about my comment on the power of creation and TOAA?

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