One Above All vs Goku

One Above All

One Above All has some pretty “awesome” power, but in the end he’s not quite a match for Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha Wave and it does some pretty heavy duty damage. It’s not something you want to mess with. Goku has beaten guys much stronger than the One Above All and lived to tell about it. Goku wins.

Fanfic version below

Cosmic vs Saiyan!


1,602 thoughts on “One Above All vs Goku

  1. I’m going with Goku for 2 reasons.

    1) He is one of my favorites. Alongside Bardock (number 1), Vegeta (Number 3), and Piccolo (Number 4).

    2) I have not seen much of One above all. All I know is that he is considered the creator god of the marvel universe.

    • Glad to see Vegeta’s up there (He’s no 1 for me) Well TOAA is supposed to be “the strongest being in all of media” but I never quite bought into it. He’s been hinted to be Stan Lee so while he’s all powerful in marvel I doubt he could do anything to Goku

    • The One Above All has perfect Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omniversal. There is literally not a single thing more powerful than The One Above All.
      He can do anything he wants without limit. Need more proof? He is, without exaggerating, God.
      The One Above All is God.

      • Feats aren’t necessary for the TOAA, he can do whatever he wants.
        Let me put it straight. If God was to go against Goku, would you say Goku wins because God never did anything to prove his strength?

        The fail levels have risen to new heights.

      • Well, look at it like this. You open a comic and there’s this guy who says he’s the creator of all reality and could do anything by doing nothing….sounds kinda far fetched. I’m a Christian and I believe in God, but I don’t believe in gods of fiction. So they’re powerless since they haven’t proven their power.

        What fail levels?

      • For those who list him as the ruler of the Omniverse then that is a load of not trueness. Pardon the french but it is the truth. He is the lord of the Marvel verse. Not the verse made by Akira Toriyama. Marvel is not Dragon Ball. Therefore to Dragon Ball he is nothing more than an old man.

      • Name one big feat that TOAA has ever done. He’s all talk and no powers. At most he can ressurect people I believe, but that’s it. In fighting ability he’s basically Stan Lee

      • Here are his powers:

        As the supreme being of the Omniverse[1], the One-Above-All is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omniversal, infinitely above all cosmic powers and abstract entities, even the Living Tribunal.

        Beyond any known system of abilities.

        Strength level
        Beyond any known system of strength.

        No possible weaknesses

        He just needs to think you dead and you ARE dead.

      • @Dreager1 Are you stupid? Let me pull this up again from the Offical Marvel Handbook:

  2. I have to say, in this respect I have to both agree and disagree intensely with those at the same time. While feats people have claimed to be able to do but have never actually proven shouldn’t be allowed (otherwise Sheldon Cooper would be allowed to “tear off the mask of nature and stare into the eyes of God” on the blog), how far does this go? I would guess that you have to be able to read or watch this action in a canon book/comic/TV episode/movie for it to work, right?

      • I just love dropping him. He’s just so overrated for me. I’d take Longshot any day. Though you should start a blog. I’ve been trying to get everyone I can do open their own fighting blogs. There aren’t really many right now. Only around 10 or so. If you make one I’ll go check it out right away, just let me know

      • I’ve wanted to do that since I started reading yours, I just thought I’d be stealing your thing if I did

      • Don’t worry, it’s not stealing at all! I like inspiring other battle sites. Take this one

        I’m not one of those guys who will get really mad and start suing or just not talking. I started this blog because I was sad that there were almost none out there. If you start one, then that’ll be another fighting blog out there.

        So, I’m all for you getting one. If you want to get one, don’t worry about me. I also don’t mind if you use any pics I have in the site because it’s not like i custom made them or anything. Very few I made, but what would be the point in keeping them to myself? I made them for free and it only takes about a minute.

        Just let me know if you do start one so I can go and follow (Plus vote on the batles) ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Cool, I’ll definitely follow/read it. Crossovers are definitely fun! How do I follow/subscribe? Do I have to be a member or is their an email box somewhere?

        Well, starting the blog is pretty easy. Just go to and sign up. After that, you just post what you want. It’s not the best explanation, but here goes ๐Ÿ˜€

        You can make new posts or new pages. I do posts for all battles and stuff, but use pages for rules and stuff. You can add tags or categories. To make a new category go to categories and click new. For tags just type it into the box in the post.

        I think you’ll probably get it all when you sign up, but if something doesn’t click I’ll always try to help. If I don’t explain it right there’s also a forum for those questions ๐Ÿ™‚

      • It’s kind of like wordpress, If you want to recieve emails when there’s a new chapter you’ll need an account (getting one is about as easy as getting a wordpress account), but you can still leave comments, reviews and such without one if you like.

    • Yes, as for the limits. Well, if they say that Frieza can blow up a whole planet after I’ve seen him pull off feats that are extremely similar I may believe it. But if they say that Kirby could actually end the earth by absorbing it and eating it, I doubt I’ll believe it. Of course if a feat has happened, then it counts (Unless it doesn’t count)

  3. From what I have learned TOAA is pure love. Goku wouldn’t be able to fight him. He would most likely just break down crying due to the awesome presence, lol Love is the strongest power- and he epitomizes it.

  4. can’t fight pure essence that is love. Goku will submit, period. And living Tribunal Has shown his powers, which we can observe in the comics, pretty much wiping anything from existence at will. And because the living Tribunal has stated himself that, he is 2nd ONLY to his creator the One Above All, that’s proof enough of his preeminence.

  5. This is gonna be long, so if you’re into “TL;DR” then don’t bother reading it.

    You don’t need to display power to show your strength. There’s nothing more powerful than the creator of all universe and everything. In some ways, Goku universe is under TOAA because he created every single possible universe and its respective alternative realities.

    The argument “he never showed his powers therefore he’s weak” is a weak and laughable argument. Sure the writers who created TOAA never had him to fight in anything because really they felt whats the point in doing so? He’s so overwhelmingly powerful that any “battles” against him would last less than the lowest possible time since he can just remove his opponent without even needing to move an inch. TOAA looks like a human because its an entity that appears as the viewer in the universe (if human looks at it, it appears humans etc etc). The same way in Mass Effect every being seems to be speaking in English. Ultimately TOAA is a being that do not have a fix shape. The human form is just for us the readers to get some sort of idea on how TOAA looks like.

    Goku sure he’s powerful but up against a God who created everything there ever is and ever was he couldn’t stand a chance even if every hero and villain in every universe were to somehow team up together to kill TOAA they wouldn’t stand the slightest chance. If there TOAA dies there’s the possibility that everything that was ever created and exist might cease to exist since its creator is dead and all of the universe. The universe (and everything else) cannot exist without TOAA.

    But ultimately, dreager1, the only person who seem to be the one who’s most enthusiastic in downplaying TOAA and blindly praising Goku will never ever be convinced that TOAA will win simply because “for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice”

    PS : Even if by some miracle the writers create some sort of battle and display of powers TOAA has, dreager1 will still say “Meh, Goku can do that”, “He can do just that? pff Goku….” etc etc.

    PSS : Goku and TOAA will never ever go in battle because both alignments are on the paragon side and Goku would never ever fight without a valid and strong reason. He’s more likely to respect TOAA and ask to be trained (or serve. but whatever) under it. Likewise, TOAA would’ve given Goku loads of respect for his kindness and his strong paragon nature.

    PSSS : I’m gonna hide under a table since i expect dreager1 to unleash a fury of vengeance by calling me “TOAA FANBOY” and the like. Again i love both Goku and TOAA.

    • Don’t worry I’m not into the TL;DR thing. I read the entire comment.

      Well usually you would be right. We don’t need to see their power to know that they have it. Like how if Superman said that Hawkman can exceed mach 5 we would believe him. The thing is, on the blog one rule is that only shown feats may count. That’s why his abilities don’t really do much here. Otherwise he’s definitely tougher.

      But here’s the deal. I’ve never believed in the power to create and disappear. I just don’t think the power would actually work. You can’t just wish away someone as powerful as Goku. His will is too powerful and physically he’s basically unbeatable. I’m pretty sure he looks like a human because he’s supposed to be StanTheManLee btw. Since Goku is a casual Solar System buster (As proved during the Cell Games) one Kamehameha could take him down. I don’t think TOAA has the means of defending himself against such an attack.

      It is true that even if TOAA did fight in the comics he probably wouldn’t surpass Goku. Goku is in the top 10 strongest beings of all time! The odds of any being passing him in the future is slim to none. Pretty much anything TOAA can do, Goku can likely do better. It’s hard to get above being a reality buster and massively faster than light. Still, if TOAA did fight in the comics quite a couple of his matches would likely be overturned…unless he just wished his opponents away or something. Then it wouldn’t really help. If TOAA died I think everything would keep on going just fine. He created the multiverse, but nobody ever said that he sustains it. At this point it can probably live on it’s own.

      I don’t think Goku would ask to be trained since he’s basically a god at this point and is stronger than everyone. He may ask TOAA to become his apprentice like Uub though.

      I think you have me confused with someone else. I never call people fanboys. First of all, I don’t like insulting people and Second, I don’t even find that as an insult. If someone calls me a Bass fanboy…”I’m a Bass fan so what’s your point,” is basically my response. Well, I’m glad that you like Goku and you must be the first person that I’ve seen who likes TOAA. Good for him ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Basically, its like Lucifer vs God. or Skarbrand the Exiled One vs Khorne. Both extremely powerful beings but again, the creation can never surpass its creator on a scale such this. That’s like saying Lucifer would’ve totally beaten God hands down because God is such a wuss for not showing his might while Lucifer had shown his prowess through combat and talent. Again, i would like to place emphasis that canonically, TOAA created ALL beings and ALL realities that ever was. There is only one TOAA among all universe, dimension and realities. You might argue that the creators of TOAA obviously overpowered TOAA beyond insanity but that’s the point of having a being that’s absolutely above everything that is and ever was.

        I have high doubts that Goku can even beat Thanos since he’s the only being ever to beat the Living Tribunal before. Again Goku might’ve beaten Thanos not because he’s more powerful than Thanos but because Thanos has a retarded weakness that’s a strong subconscious desire to lose.

        Besides you have to remember that Goku have been beaten and killed or nearly killed once or more occasion. Infact, iirc Goku isn’t the most powerful being in Dragon Ball universe since he couldn’t beat Janembar (was it that? forgotten the spelling) without the fusion dance with Vegeta. And for all of Goku power and strength, his power, no matter
        great and vast, is not infinite. Even if Goku don’t die within seconds and TOAA decides to have a little challenge, TOAA can outlast Goku because his power reserve is infinite and technically nameless was right. TOAA can control time since he was the being that made everything that ever is and was (note my emphasis on this point).

      • Well, in the comics or any form of media the creator usually wins, but not in a way that I can accept. I can understand Apocalypse beating Sinister and Goku beating Buu, but sometimes matches don’t make sense. Like Piccolo being scared of Supreme Kai and any scene with the Tribunal or Odin. Odin can fight a bit though so I’ll cut him some slack. The Tribunal may have some mild powers if I recall as well.

        Well, Thanos is tough, but Goku has the massive power/speed advantage. I don’t really think Thanos would be able to keep up. Goku has lost in the past, but to incredibly powerful beings who can wipe out solar systems. Janemba Was stronger than Goku back during the end of Arc 3. Since then he’s gotten drastically stronger and as of GT he’s much, much stronger than before. His base form = the Super Saiyan 3 of DBZ (Supposedly)

        Goku’s power isn’t infinite (Only Bass has infinite power) but he’s one of the closest characters to infinite. Very few beings are stronger than him (Like Megaman) but TOAA also doesn’t have infinite. We’ve never seen him fight and he seems to just be an old man. I’m pretty sure that he represents StanTheManLee which is why he looks like him and “created” everybody.

        There’s never been any proof of TOAA’s time control. He may just have the basic immortality. He’s okay, but all we’ve seen is that he’s very old and that he can float. This is why he’s pretty much doomed on the blog for now

    • TOAA has infinite power because he created everything that ever is and ever was. There is only one TOAA among all dimension and realities. Here’s an excerpt of the canon definition of TOAA “One-Above-All is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omniversal, infinitely above all cosmic powers and abstract entities”. You don’t have to demonstrate your powers to show that you are the better being. Like Twains said, its akin to saying Lucifer is way more powerful than God on the fact that Lucifer showed his powers while God did not. The reason why TOAA does not intervene is because he does not want to meddle with the affairs of the beings he created. Hell even when the living tribunal was defeated by Thanos TOAA still didn’t intervene. It was only due to Thanos own sacrifice that the balance was restored.

      You cannot be bias when making these kind of comparison. Of course Goku is immensely powerful and his powers are near infinite, but he has lost and been killed many times over previously. You might say, he gets stronger afterwards, but he can only go so far. Goku is still flesh and bone, he grows old and will eventually die while TOAA does not age or nor lose his prowess with age since he created time itself (note created everything that ever was and ever is). The only reason why we never see TOAA in combat is because
      1. He does not intervene with the affairs of his creation
      2. Nobody but Thanos has defeated the Living Tribunal (which is second only to TOAA)

      I’ll disregard many more points in your argument on the assumption that English isn’t your prima lingua since you don’t seem to understand certain words.

      And when you said Goku lost to being that are able to destroy multiple solar systems, remember that the only being to ever beat the Living Tribunal (the second most powerful being) was able to destroy alternative realities and dimensions countless times over.

      considered to be second only to TOAA).


      • TOAA has never actually used infinite power. I don’t think he can really fight. In the end he’s pretty much just an old man. He “created” everything because he’s Stan Lee. Can Stan Lee beat Goku? I don’t think so. Think about it…he claims that he doesn’t have to interfere, but it could just be that he knows he’d be wiped out.

        Goku Is immensely powerful and I don’t think that TOAA is close. He’s lost in the past to be sure, but to enemies that are also far stronger than TOAA. Goku actually doesn’t grow old and die anymore. He’s basically immortal.

        English is my first language, that’s why the blog has a 100% accuracy policy and I always expertly debate ๐Ÿ™‚

        The Living Tribunal isn’t that tough as well sooooo…yeah

      • Kinda dumb either way then to ask a question about a character who is God in his universe but has shown no feets.(because we all know how much god loves impressing people.

      • Well, debating is what this site’s all about. That’s why we debate everything, whether it be big or small. No such thing as a “dumb” debate or question. I’d say the One Above All is Stan Lee level in his physical attributes…possibly a little less

  6. Why do people debate with this. These fanboys dont know anything about the characters they put in these fights, and I mean anything at all. TOAA is stated to be the creator of the whole Marvel Multiverse and thats why he is totally all-powerfull.

    And still even everybody clearly explains all the facts to these fanboys, they are still totaly clueless and ignorant.

    Why do you want to deabate anyway if you say Goku kills everything, even beings who blink multiple universes out of existence and recreates them at the same second??

    And the sad thing is, these guys don’t seem to be even trolling.

    • Well, the One Above All is okay, but he’s basically just an old man. He can’t really fight much, so for a guy who can shatter solar systems with virtually no’s not much of a fight! Goku’s just a much stronger warrior, but not even he can beat everyone (That would be Bass)

  7. The One Above All is God.

    This argument is moronic, how could you possibly thinks Goku wins this, there could be only two explanations.

    a. you’re a troll

    b. you’re a sad sad fanboy…

    In any case I pity you

    • No, he isn’t God. He’s a homage to Stan Lee and is named the One Above All because he presides over all Marvel characters (Since he created them) Against a character like Goku he would be completely powerless. But he is by no means God!

      I’m none of the above. Just a dedicated debater

  8. TOAA doesn’t have to fight.. You’re just not getting it. What people don’t realize is when these crossovers happen the worlds of each character combine. Stan lee is TOAA. he is the god of marvel because he created it and the second goku is in the same sentence as TOAA he controls it because that involves the marvel universe which he created and controls. and he an do whatever he wants. if he wants to write a comic where goku dies or goku was never born or goku changes genders HE CAN DO IT. How is goku going to fight him? is he going to come off one of the pages? Are we going to hear in the news how Stan lee was kamehameha blasted across the universe by goku? NO because it can’t happen and never will. Goku can not exist without a writer. I mean people can’t stress it enough. It just can’t happen. We as human beings don’t even exist on the same level as fictitious characters. That’s like saying goku would beat you when that’s impossible. If you were to write a story with goku in it right now you’re instantly the most powerful being because you created it. how can any of your creations fight you. you control whether they live or die, or if their poor or rich or a female or male or old or young. the second you write that story you’ve given goku his power and can take it away at will. TOAA wins hands down

    • Here’s the deal about that….we are humans, so a Kamehameha would destroy us. We can claim that we’re on the “Outside world” so fictional characters can’t hurt us, but once you’re in a fight with such a character, things change. During the fight, both individuals now occupy the same level of existence, so the One Above All wouldn’t have a chance

      • Your ignorance does not amuse me. A simple kamekameha beam will NOT KILL GODS YOU Fool. A simple saiyan will not defeat a GOD. NOT EVEN BILLS, THE GOD OF DESTRUCTION. You are just an illogical hologram saying senseless things. Goku beats ALL? I want proof
        . Proof that Goku beats TOAA. Proof that he is completely indestructible. PROOF THAT HE CREATED THE WHOLE SERIES.

        I liked the manga more the anime. originality, more on meaning. Your debates should have been your own personal opinions. Goku beats TOAA?! Thats ignorant

        Maybe you worship Goku. Maybe you are a Gokuist and the only one. Kamekameha is nothing but a simple beam against TOAA. He will not die. And just a thought of TOAA about Goku, he will be helpless.

        I don’t like you debating without evidence. Your statements about kamekameha is clearly shameful.

        I won’t stop debating with you until you say TOAA OWNZ goku!!!!

        Ps: not a marvel fan. I have seen every dbz.

      • @TRTH-HRTZ

        Your fan wanking does not amuse me or make me take you seriously as a debater at all. Bills is a god so he can beat a god. And it’s hinted he could destroy the universe entirely as a whole due to his status. Aside from dreager1’s own bias towards anything involving Bass I agree with Goku beating TOAA because TOAA is not a real god but a human. Whoever is in charge of Marvels writing and creativity is TOAA and it’s just a guy who can only control Marvel characters. If he wants to do any god like things like desiring someone out of existence it has to be Marvel characters because Goku was made by Akira Toriyama. And all fiction does not exist and take place in Marvel. Thus Goku is made of a different nature, meaning someone elses creative juices.

        Dragon Ball Z is not owned nor is it set in a Marvel universe or omniverse.

        In a real fight if TOAA or basically Jack Kirby (the original TOAA mentioned before others) was put into a crossover battle it would be in a universe that he has no control over and even if it was in Marvel he would be powerless himself. The only thing he could do is command someone from Marvel to beat Goku like The Living Tribunal. And that is not the same as defeating Goku himself. If that happened it wouldn’t be TOAA Vs Goku. It would be *insert blank Marvel character* Vs. Goku.

    • He doesn’t control goku no matter what because Goku is made of a different nature than the ones in Marvel. And TOAA is actually Jack Kirby or whoever runs Marvel during the time. Jack was the original. And he is nothing more than a human who controls Marvel. He has no control in a crossover because ALL fiction doesn’t take place in Marvel.

      • So what is the point of these fights then? Goku has the powers and everything against him doesn’t?? Goku is then no more a normal man in outside place of his own realm, and if this fight doesnt belong is in his realm, he is just a man with no powers. So tell me why would we make fights with other has no powers of his own?

        Don’t be a fckin moron. These are one vs one with the powers they have.

        And this whole depate is a work of a troll. It is against omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and omniversal being agains a bare mortal. So everyone should stop commenting in this stupid thread, because its pointless.

      • How do you figure? Goku’s powers aren’t limited to any single dimension. Also, with or without his powers, the One Above All doesn’t stand a chance

      • Lol ๐Ÿ˜€ you are a sad human being. I saw your other posts and u are clearly not smart, 10 years old or ar major troll. But anyway saw more than enough, so have a good delusional life.

        Because you know nothing ;D ;D ;D ;D

  9. I know this is pointless but I’m bored so I’ll start this. Okay, there are several obvious explanations but they all end up with ‘The One Above All’ beating Goku. Don’t get me wrong, I love Goku, he’s the man and I certainly like him more than TOAA as a character, simply because we don’t know a lot about TOAA as a character. I’ve read your rules (clearly biased against creator figures like TOAA/Presence) but I think using logic we can figure this out. By the way, (and I will emphasise this later) I’m clueless as to why these two characters aren’t in your “too powerful to consider list” or whatever you call it.

    While there is not a lot definitive about TOAA, from all the evidence/suggestions via the comics he (it) is all powerful, all present. There’s no proof that it is Stan Lee, maybe the suggestion that it is a representation of Jack Kirby from the real world. In the context of the Marvel multi-verse it would appear it is unbeatable, furthermore unlike Goku who has been defeated, TOAA hasn’t been defeated yet, infact there is absolutely no proof that it can be beaten.

    In the terms of your rules you state: “Only shown, or otherwise eligible feats count. So guys like The One Above All are technically powerless to fight unless they actually fight in the future”. Being unbeaten is a feat, similarly, creating a universe and all the physics within it is a feat. You can’t simply take away a character’s ability randomly or ’cause you don’t like a character. That’s not fair. So with that, TOAA could just control Goku’s Kamehameha physics to be as weak as a zippo lighter or create an infinite amount of planets to get in the way of Goku forever and as fast as he likes. There is NO limit to TOAA’s power.

    Look at rule number 1: All fighters have access to everything. An demonstrated ability of TOAA is that he exists everywhere and is omni-present i.e he exists everywhere all the time, he can’t exist in one universe. And again, you can’t take away this aspect of it otherwise without changing the character completely. Simply, Goku hasn’t shown a move which can remove an entity from existence or from multiple-universes. Also Goku and his power is limited to one universe, he can’t actually touch TOAA in its entirety. Yes, there is no direct comic reference to many specific TOAA acts but because the Marvel multiverse is so vast and comprehensive it is clear just how powerful it is. You have to be level headed and make certain logical assumptions.

    If you want to have a blog battle you have to be fair and remove characters like TOAA/The Presence from consideration. You’re right, it hasn’t fought or been shown to fight, but by the very nature/existence of its character it is above 99.9999% of the other potential candidates. If you take away any part of TOAA’s ‘infiniteness’ then you’re changing the character completely and therefore it is void. Accept this or not, most people out there (the poll is my proof) would probably agree with me. I know you probably won’t take a single word of what I’ve written on board but either way, I had fun writing this. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • The rules are just there so that the battles can be epic and effective. Blinking someone out of existence isn’t logical, which is why it wouldn’t be counted. Goku and the One Above All aren’t High Aboves because they just didn’t make the cut. The High Aboves list isn’t about power after all, just that I have given them the right to win all battles on the blog.

      I agree that there is no proof that he is Stan Lee..and that’s the only reason as to why he’s allowed on the blog. Still, I’m 99% sure that he’s meant to be Stan Lee. Those feats aren’t valid. The One Above All can claim many things, but we don’t have proof that he created the universe. Even if he did, that wouldn’t really help in a fight. TOAA has never shown any of those powers in the past and I doubt that he could alter Goku’s Kamehameha. Nobody can be everywhere at the same time in the comics. It’s just an exaggerated claim that TOAA and many other cosmic entities make.

      It’s a good argument, but I just don’t buy it for TOAA. Other cosmic entities have proven their power like the Tribunal and the Spectre, but not the One Above All. At this point, grabbing a gun would help him on the blog since he would at least have some bullets at his disposal. Good to see a new face on the blog though!

      • Haha I get that you don’t like TOAA, but you do realise you’re subjectively making creative assumptions with regards to power potential in a comic book right? You can’t dictate what comic book creators are and aren’t allowed to convey power-wise (omni-presence is a valid power) and still expect to sound credible/logical. You CAN, however, accept that TOAA is more than likely (given what we do know) an irrelevant entity to include in your blog i.e. fights with an entity you don’t know about about are meaningless. I think it goes both ways: You shouldn’t even really have a match-up if you don’t know the full extent of a character’s power ceiling (which we clearly don’t). I will concede a new character category for “infallible creator-types” which makes them invalid for combat. I think that’s fair, don’t you?

        I mean ultimately, I suppose you can do whatever you like with regards to your blog – I’m just trying to put out the point. Cheers!

      • That would be difficult though since there are many characters that are theoretically invincible through their cosmic abilities. Tenchi Muto, Presence, One Above All, and many other characters would need to be excluded. Cosmic beings are not always powerless as the Living Tribunal would do decently well on the blog. He may not be a match for Spiderman due to composite abilities, but he can fight. That’s because he’s been shown to fire energy blasts in the past, which gives him a tremendous edge.

        I won’t deny that the One Above All has potential to be strong, but we need to see some proof before he gets his props. All he needs is a single panel where he defeats someone with a punch, shows off some super speed, or even takes out a gun and shoots someone. It would finally give him some material that I can work with. Currently, the only power that I can prove that he possesses is flight. (Maybe bringing back the dead, but my mind is a little hazy on that one)

        It would take too long if I allowed characters to reach their height in power. Series like Naruto and Bleach are still going where the characters continue to get stronger. Other series are pretty early on like Attack on Titan, but the characters become so popular that they need to quickly be included. That being said, I make sure to go back and look at previous matchups if the power up was enough to warrant a change. An example of this is Naruto vs Gon. That match has gone both ways in the past and currently Naruto has taken the lead. (For good I’m pretty sure. I doubt that Gon will be passing him again)

        So, I do know about the One Above All, but his panels have not impressed me. He talks a very good game, but he has not backed it up yet and the statement from the Living Tribunal is not enough to back it up. At least the One Above All has won battles in the past while on the blog. He’s definitely not the weakest character in existence, far from it! He’s still of human size and flight does help to an extent.

        Always good to hear feedback on the blog though

  10. The reason why dbz characters are so powerful is because people take everything they here or see on the show literally. For example, cell once said he can destroy the solar system with his ki blast. If he really was able to do that, why not do it before. He even did a kamahameha, which is 1000x stronger than a ki blast, but only managed to create a large creator. And piccolo destroying the moon. How is it possible that he can destroy the moon early in the show but never show that kind of power again later when he’s stronger. Dumb people like to count this and powers scale goku with it and that is how goku is somehow able to destroy entire universes even though he has yet to destroy a planet on his own. How about I powerscale toaa. Lets start with thanos and the infinity gauntlet. He has the power to bend all of space and time. He’s beaten many of marvels strongest characters including galactus who once actually destroyed an entire universe. The living tribunal is more powerful than that. He easily shut down the ig thus stripping thanos of his powers. He has even sealed of entire dimensions. The one above all is even more powerful. He is not Stan lee. Only his appearance is. While he might not have many feats. He is, however, the living tribunal’s boss and it would only be logical that he’s more powerful. Thus via power scaling, he has the power to completely annihilate an entire universe.

    • The difference is that Cell could actually blow up the star system with a blast and Goku could basically destroy reality with a punch. DBZ fighters are insanely powerful and even low tiers like Krillin could destroy Marvel and DC. Power scaling doesn’t work with TOAA because we have to rely on the Living Tribunal’s claim. He may just have been suckered by TOAA. TOAA has to actually prove that he can fight before we take his word for it. Until then, I’d have to go with Peter Parker’s father against him in a fight

  11. Until you give me factual evidence of any character from dragon ball to dragon ball z ( not including movies or gt ) that has the power to actually destroy a universe, you are a just another dbz fan

  12. All cell did was say he could destroy a solar system. But he never actually showed anything close to that. And the beyonder will destroy krillen because he can actually punch a hole in reality, unlike goku.

    • All of the Z Fighters were experienced in sensing ki and since they were worried..they knew that he could really do it. Krillin could easily dodge any of the Beyonder’s attacks and one Kamehameha would end things instantly.

  13. Forget beyonder. A grizzly bear will destroy dbz along with every other anime. So would a turtle. And a snail. And an ant. And a …..

  14. This is getting stupid. DBZ characters have more than small star-busting destructive power and possibly very very very very very low Solar System busting. Yes, Cell stated that he could blow up the Solar System, but like you said to me, look at Supreme Kai’s bluff against Piccolo. Roshi blew up the moon in Manga but he was DRAINED afterwards. Approximately 50 of Earth’s moons make 1 Earth. Roshi has a base power lvl of 200 when powered up. Power levels aren’t that accurate, but they still are moderately. 200×50=10,000. Goku had a power lvl of 10,000 before he was even halfway into King kai’s training. SSJ4 Gogeta has a power level of 2,500,000,000 or 2 billion 500 thousand. 3,296,159,650,000,000,000,000,000 would have to be his power level to blow up even our solar system, much less a GALAXY, much less a UNIVERSE. I got this by getting the # of Earths that can fit in the Galaxy an multiplying it by 10,000. Don’t say DBZ doesn’t work like that because it does. Power scaling is fine, but only Cell and Buu were actually shown to get a blast large enough to destroy a Earth. DBZ is one of the best franchises out there, but in reality, the best they could destroy was a very very very very very small galaxy. His power level as a SSJG would be 1,100,000,000, though he absorbed most of that forms power so it is extremely likely that he won’t use it again. Still, that’s nowhere NEAR what it takes to blow up a Galaxy. I know DBZ character give the impression sometimes that they are Universe busters, but they really aren’t. So 1.1 billion is his max power and he would need to be 3.2 billion-billion-billion to blow up a solar system. The only person who could potentially destroy a very very very very small solar system from the DBZ franchise would be Whis. Akira Toriama stated that if Goku SSJG is 6, Bills is 10 and Whis is 15.

    • Vegeta from the early Saiyan Saga days was stated to be powerful enough to blow up the Earth. That was back before Super Saiyan 1, much less Super Perfect Cell so blowing up the solar system at that state is pretty reasonable. The Z fighters would have called him out on it if Cell had been bluffing so I’m pretty sure that he was being legit about it. This is one time where power scaling is okay to do. Also, let’s not forget about Broly taking on the Southern Galaxy and Omega Shenron deciding to end the universe. DBZ fighters are truly high tier and they can destroy just about anything with a blast. As for Goku SSJG being weaker than Bills….I still find that hard to believe, but I guess we’ll need to see the sequel. I hope Vegeta gets more props this time

  15. Goku is a pretty cool guy.
    Eh fights aliens and doesn’t afraid of anything.
    But teh winner here is Bass cuz eh fights robots and doesn’t afraid of anything.

  16. Should this thread have even been created?? There are so many proven facts that The One Above All is the most powerful fictional character out there. End of story.

  17. DReager1: “TOAA has no proven feats yet.”
    As my 1st debut post since summer, I’m going to make it big.
    Lie!!! He DOES have proven facts. He has the free ability to transport between the dimensions at will because at one when the Thing died in Fantastic 4 comic he was in Marvel Heaven (I have scans to show this and everything that I say on this post just ask and I will display them) And another Spider Man comic he was on Earth. He also has at least mild+ shape shifting abilities because he shape-shifted into a homeless man before at the end of another Spider Man comic. Since he can go between dimensions that means he can teleport between space and time yielding it to his/her will. A.K.A. he can teleport and control time. The Living Tribunal is an extremely powerful cosmic entity that I have yet to debate about but I will later. By multiple Marvel references, scans, and even the Living Tribunal himself saying this, we see that TOAA>>Living Tribunal. By power scaling that means that TOAA is extremely powerful and can >> anyone who the Living Tribunal beat. And I managed to put this all together WITHOUT using anything that wasn’t proven. If we want to go into how ur a complete FB of Bass and just made the rule feats only for TOAA because u didn’t want Bass to be beaten…….. Then we could do that some other time.

    • Well, I wouldn’t say that those feats are as useful as they appear. The One Above All basically does transcend dimensions, but that won’t help in a fight since he can’t use it offensively. The shape shifting is interesting, but it only would have helped if he had turned into someone who was tough. The old man form won’t help him overtake Goku or Gary Oak anytime soon.

      Now, he can go across dimensions allegedly, but that doesn’t give him power over time and space. He definitely doesn’t have that kind of ability. The Tribunal has admitted that he is inferior to the One Above All, but that can’t be counted as a feat until the One Above All does something. If the One Above All fired an energy blast or something, then the power scaling would really come in handy. Otherwise, it doesn’t really help his case.

      We could go into my epic Bass fan debate, but Bass always wins. The rule feats goes for everyone…but Bass has too many feats to lose. Let’s face it, there’s a reason why Bass is known to be invincible!

  18. We’ll technically since he’s God if u don’t want Bass to lose just PLEASE remove him form the blog. PLEASE. Because you saying he’s just an old man and making him lose is upsetting ALL of the Marvel fans. I mean, how would you feel if there was a moderately popular blog that you found that had a bunch of Bass matches and they said Bass is just a robot and he can’t do anything. Also on this blog Bass was the lowest character ranked ever. How would that make you feel?

    • Nah, he just built the Marvel universe. There’s only one God and he’s real so in fiction characters can only impersonate him or do their best to have an adaption of him like with Presidents or something, but that wouldn’t help their case since it’s just an impersonation.

      I would feel a little perplexed at first, but I would realize that the site is probably not legitamite. Depending on if the site was totally trolling or not, I would go and debate for Bass. If the owner just seemed to be very bias or he was just messing with the readers, then I may not bother. After all…I have my own site with its 100% accuracy policy!

      The One Above All isn’t even close to the lowest ranked fighter on the blog though. He’s at around 200 I believe and that’s not bad since there are quite a few hundred people underneath him. Did you see the latest blog character standings? Either way, Bass easily has to stay on the blog. He’s too powerful. It would be like benching Tony (The Man) Romo during the playoffs. You gotta keep in your star!

    • Hm? I didn’t edit either of your previous two comments to my knowledge. The only time I edit a comment is if it has curse words or is a personal attack on another user. I never alter the actual message in question.

      • There is no such thing as โ€œoverestimate the One Above Allโ€™s abilitiesโ€ ,One above all wins, period. Heโ€™s the ultimate existence of the marvel universe, You canโ€™t kill One Above All because he is, he was, and ever will be. You probably canโ€™t even touch him since heโ€™s omnipresent he doesnโ€™t even need a โ€œbodyโ€ so Goku canโ€™t even touch him. So spare us of your fanboy stubbornness.

      • I never cared for the term “fanboy” I’m a fan of Goku though. Think of it like Swiss Cheese vs Cheddar. Cheddar always wins. Goku just needs a punch to win. The One Above All is all hype and no feats.

      • I dunno, I prefer Cheddar on everything ๐Ÿ˜› I just never cared for Swiss or Mozzerella cheese. I don’t mean to say that I don’t like them, but they’re last resort cheese for me. (Still above pepper cheese though) I just love Cheddar because of how strong it tastes. I still do enjoy a good homemade swiss pizza though.

      • Now that I’ve answered one comment, I suppose I should offer my opinion on this match-up. Seems I end up commenting on a lot of these things…

        The One Above All, if he’s everything he’s cracked up to be, is truly unbeatable. He is quoted as being omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient, and if he is, he can literally do and know everything. To say that this is even a match would be ridiculous.

        That is precisely why I must side with Goku.

        Now before anyone accuses my of anything, let me make my position clear. The One Above All cannot be as powerful, all-knowing and good as he is made out to be. If he were, he could have stopped every villain in their tracks before they committed any crime. If there were such a being as the One Above All, and he were everything he is quoted as, we would not have people like Red Skull or Carnage. Or heck, even entire realities like the Marvel Zombies universe. Such a being would be able to know of these things, want to stop them, and deal with them with literally no effort. So why hasn’t he? (Try to explain from only an in-universe perspective – writing reasons don’t count)

        His very existence would remove any purpose in having the heroes in the first place. In fact, if he is everything he is stated as, nothing else in that world has any purpose whatsoever. He could be some greater force for good, maybe even stronger than anyone else in the multiverse, but for him to NOT have sorted every problem out already he needs to not be absolute and all-powerful. For him to be doing greater work keeping reality as it is, he needs to have some limit to his powers so he can’t take everything into his own hands

        Besides that little rant, the One Above All’s kind of unproven, (Yes, I am actually agreeing with DReager here!). He has done very little in comics, and the only real thing we have to comment on is that the Living Tribunal thinks highly of him. Personally, I don’t think he should even be allowed on the blog, but that’s another matter.

        If he does something significant in the comics and proves his power, he prove his win for this fight. But if he’s everything he’s cracked up to be, he has a LOT of explaining to do…

        Anyway, that’s my opinion. make of it what you will.


        I also enjoy Cheddar, and if I had to choose one or the other for all purposes, it would perhaps be Cheddar. But all cheeses have their place, and it would be wrong to say Cheddar always wins. Were I serving cheese and crackers’ I believe I would use Swiss cheese every time assuming I had both.

      • Well, it is good to see someone else on the Goku side! Aside from the occasional pro Goku comment, things can get a little dicey.

        It’s just that Cheddar is so great. It’s not really the saltiness factor, but how strong the taste is. I suppose that Cheddar goes best with bagels and crackers can be a close fight, but I’ve just always been a cheddar person. Its the kind of cheese that I enjoy just chomping in stick form. Most other cheeses, I would still enjoy, but I would need to have some bread/crackers/or meat to go with it. Of course, cheese is still cheese so it’s hard not to enjoy it I suppose. Of course, to each their own and it’s still good that you like cheese. I did have a Swiss Cheese Omelet recently that was pretty great!

  19. Goku if people thinks will lose then it’s impossible. As you can find that goku has universe kamehameha which will not destroy a galaxy it will destroy the whole universe . What can Toaa do he with his full power can destroy only one or two galaxies.Now tell me is there a match

      • Is this still coming from the fact that TOAA is just a man? (most rediculous thing ive ever heard by the way)
        You seem to have it all mixed up, TOAA is not a man or a woman but an idea, a concept.
        Only the people it was based on are normal people, so unless you are changing the name of the debate to goku vs stan lee/jack kirby, then that doesnt apply.
        What IS true about TOAA is that he is the embodyment of the writers will, unkillable because it is beyond such petty concepts and if this fight were to take place then it would be fictional, which means that TOAA would just be the embodyment of the writers for that story, so the only way goku would win is if TOAA lets him. Plus as an added bonus, goku couldnt even hit him due to TOAA only having a physical form when he wants to.

      • Yes, TOAA is just an old man. I don’t care if he tries to be a concept or something meta like that, at the end of the day he’s still just an old man who forgot his cane. He can’t handle any true fighter. TOAA could try to just turn into energy but then Goku could blow him away with aura pressure

  20. ……… ._______. Words cannot describe the amount of fail in this thread. TOAA has created galaxy busters like Odin and beings that survived universe destroying blasts such as the beyonder. I wouldn’t be surprised if he decided to send Beyonder to wreck Goku. TOAA wills Goku out of existence. You sir are making me hate one of my favorite fictional characters (Goku ) by wanking his abilities.

    • What? This is my favorite thread man! ๐Ÿ˜‰ At least one of them anyway. TOAA can’t will Goku to do anything because Goku has freedom of the press and strength of character. He can just shoot a Kamehameha and that will be the end for the One Above All. Have you seen Goku’s new God Mode? Nothing stops that…nothing!

      • Hahahahahaha…You serious? Beyonder was said to be like the TOAA of his universe and Beyonder tanked a blast that could destroy multiple universes. A little planet busting beam can’t do zilch to TOAA.

      • I think it would be enough. The Beyonder talks tough, but we’ve never actually seen TOAA’s abilities. TOAA is just all hype at the moment.

      • Excuse me, are you Stan Lee himself? If Stan Lee the creator of Marvel states that TOAA is omnipotent then he IS omnipotent because Stan Lee said so. Stan Lee invented TOAA not YOU. TOAA erases Goku from existence, end of story.

      • I appreciate Stan’s input of course, but as a professional debater in my own right, I believe that my opinions hold about as much weight at this point. TOAA just has no proof so he can’t fight at the moment.

    • You’re professional at being a bad debater. If the damn creator of the series states that a certain character is omnipotent and none of the others are, then that character IS omnipotent. Its not like everyone is omnipotent in Marvel, only ONE being is omnipotent therefore its logical and reasonable. Is that SO hard to understand? Omnipotent = Infinite power.

      • I gotta disagree there, I’ve been debating for years so I’m pretty experienced now. I bring out the feats hidden within feats. Nothing is infinite though and there are many high above beings in Marvel like LT or the Beyonder. The One Above All is just supposedly the best, but it’s all rumor and speculation at this point. We’ll have to actually see him to know whether he is actually that strong or not.

      • Then leave TOAA out of battles if you think he’s weak just because of his lack of ‘feats’. Thats right, ignore the fact that Stan Lee the writer of Marvel HIMSELF stated that TOAA his own character is omnipotent just because of the ‘lack’ of feats. *Facepalm*

      • I can’t do that! Imagine if I didn’t allow Nemo to fight because I think that he’s extremely weak. TOAA may not have feats now, but if he ever gets some, you can expect a lot of his matches to quickly overturn, which would be pretty awesome for him. It would be the biggest blog shake up ever. Stan Lee is good, but he’s a little out of the loop in Marvel now so he may have overestimated TOAA.

      • This guys problem is that he only uses some things about a character.
        And (contrary to his belief) if the writer of a character or idea says something about that particular creation, then it becomes cannon, as in, something that we now know FOR A FACT that they can do untill another writer retcons it(but that hasnt happened yet so it doesnt matter) as of now and all times previously THIS IS CANNON. So, yes he can do all of these things.
        Any questions?

      • Writers can be overruled by what happens in the actual content. Even if a writer says that Sonic for example is FTL, but then in the comic you see some random joe outrun him, you can assume that the writer was wrong. It happens all the time and the writers aren’t infallible. Sometimes they just make huge mistakes.

  21. ….STAN LEE CREATED TOAA. How can he overestimate his OWN character? TOAA is too powerful for Goku. You know what, you should rename him “TONAAC” (The one nerfed above all characters) since thats all you do. You nerf, nerf and nerf even more.

    • It happens all of the time. Haven’t you ever went to a friend and said “I’m unbeatable in CoD or Smash Bros” only to get beaten? It’s natural for us to overestimate our own abilities (I do think that I’m the best Smash player though) and likewise with our characters. So it makes sense that I can objectively look at TOAA more than Stan Lee.

      • *Facepalm* TOAA= Deemed omnipotent in the fictional world. FICTION. TOAA is unbeatable and thats the end of it. Other omnis can only stalemate him.

  22. I think that we can’t compare both of them, since they are from different universe. Who knows that maybe a normal human from the dragon ball universe can defeat the one above all?

    • I actually would agree with the thought of a normal human potentially defeating the One Above All. Especially if the human was an adult who was in his prime. TOAA is very old and couldn’t fight back!

  23. I really find this post stupid, and that dreager1 is being unrealistically stubborn who refuses to accept that TOAA is much more powerful than Goku. Clearly you have difficulty comprehending what it means to be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omniversal. He is above everyone and everything. He is responsible for the existence of all life in the Multiverse and beyond.

    When the Protege proclaimed himself as the most powerful being that ever existed, the Living Tribunal countered him, saying,”Impossible! There is only One above the Living Tribunal!” And then later on when it defeated the Protege and absorbed him into itself, it said,”Your actions and intentions are inexcusable! Make your peace! May the One Above All forgive you!”

    You may not have a direct basis of power for TOAA, but the Living Tribunal was created by him, and so through the Tribunal’s claims, we have an indirect but usable basis of power for the TOAA. There are other extremely powerful who have proven their worth that speak highly of TOAA. The Living Tribunal is said to represent the One whose might exceeds even Eternity. The Infinity Well also describes the Tribunal as “the representative of the One who is above all.” And Adam Warlock, who was one of the few to wield the Infinity Gauntlet and all of the Infinity Stones, describes the Tribunal as “the servant of the One who is above even gods.”

    There was also the time when Kubik was giving Kosmos a tour of reality and introducing her to the various higher powers, they met the Living Tribunal, and he tells her that while it (Living Tribunal) is the most supreme power which can be comprehended,”Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare imagine.” Eternity also tells Doctor Strange,”I and my brother, Death, comprise all of your reality, mystic! Neither he nor I am God, for God rules all realities!” Uatu also told Susan Storm, when she feared for her husband’s life at the hands of the “all-powerful” Silver Surfer, that there is only one being that is truly “all-powerful”.

    The Living Tribunal reverses the destruction Adam Warlock does in his Trial, telling him,”I represent forces that dwarf even your might. My authority comes on from High.” Also, when Thor once compared himself and Odin to various other gods and abstract beings in terms of power, he notes: “And ’tis said that a being, called the Living Tribunalโ€”the final judgeโ€”hath the power to enforce his will upon any cosmos he doth judge! And ’tis said his power is supreme in all the Multiverse. Even I, son of one of the mightiest of all gods, find it impossible to conceive of such levels of power! And ’tis a humbling thought to consider how much greater the Creator of all Universes must be than that of all of His creations combined!”

    And the clincher: When a bartender asks Mephisto if the Living Tribunal, who created the Infinity Embassy, was actually “God”, Mephisto replies,”No, he’s not God. He’s just the biggest kid in all the playgrounds. And if he knows the Principal, he’s not exactly chatty about it.”

    I realize everything I put in here was stolen from the Marvel Comics Database. But after reading all of your disclaims of TOAA, you made me desperate enough to resort to such a measure. And if you can’t accept the fact that The One Above All is infinitely superior to Goku, then I’m sorry, but you’re caught up in a self-delusion. That being said, enjoy believing that “Goku is superior to TOAA” just because he chose to manifest himself as an old man when appearing to Peter Parker when he could have just as easily chosen any other form.

    The best feats are not what you did for the knowledge of everyone, but the fact that others fear you even when you have done nothing, because they know that you actually have the capability to do anything.

    • He could have chosen another form, but he didn’t. That tells me that the One Above All is running scared! He knows that his reputation is all that he has left and that’s not good enough. I could have a reputation of throwing donuts at my employees when they make a mistake, but it doesn’t mean that I actually throw donuts. (I’d be fired) The Living Tribunal is just building TOAA up because he knows that someone like the Punisher could destroy TOAA if they ever met.

      • I wouldn’t say that this is confirmation to be honest. It’s true that real people aren’t qualified to be the blog, but I’d say that TOAA is more symbolic than actually a real person.

      • Dude, I posted evidence of real people taking on the role of TOAA. TOAA is whoever is writing the comic.

      • You really can’t grasp reality, can you? There is no purpose for the Living Tribunal to lie. What purpose would it gain, other than declare itself as the most supreme authority of the Multiverse, only to be ultimately killed by the Beyonders? The One Above All does exist, and he’s not just the current writer of Marvel. And omnipotent means that he could do whatever he wants and Goku at his most powerful could not even hope to fight him. The One Above All created the Multiverse and all life in it. That means everyone and everything that ever existed in the Multiverse did so because of him.

      • Well, Reality isn’t always around to be honest.

        Living Tribunal doesn’t have to be lying per say, he would actually believe what he is saying. Either way, he just doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The One Above All is feeding him all of this information. Assuming that the One Above All really did create LT, why would LT doubt hispowers? LT just believes that this is the case. The One Above All created everything, but the power of creation isn’t much of a combat ability.

      • And yet for the most part he doesn’t. Being omnipotent he could literally stop any problem he wanted to with no effort and being omniscient he knows it’s happening, but he chooses not to… If he’s literally all he’s made out to be he is more or less intentionally letting all the villains continue doing what they want. I argue (and also fondly hope) that he’s not actually real

      • The Living Tribunal never doubted the The One Above All’s powers. And he isn’t just all about the power of creation. The One Above All has full-blown omnipotence, able to do anything and everything he wishes to. The Living Tribunal is just his emissary, his representative. A lieutenant imbued with a large fraction of his power, given the responsibility to pass final judgment on any and every force that threatens the balance of the entire Multiverse. And the reason most people don’t believe in The One Above All is because he has never intervened in any conflict. But why create a character then write him off as someone who doesn’t exist?

      • What else would he have shown himself as?
        Peter was grieving so it showed up as a kindly old man, plus (pulling a page out of your own book) what are the feats that show the punisher could kill TOAA

      • The feats are that Punisher has destroyed people with his guns before. TOAA hasn’t shown that his durability is anything greater than that of an old man’s. TOAA should have shown himself as some kind of body builder with 10 arms. At least then without fighting we could still assume that he was pretty tough

  24. TOAA can wipe the multiverse out of existence with a thought. Do you really think he could not do the same with a superman level character? By the way the fail levels are through the roof

      • Well I think we can agree hypothetically, assuming TOAA can do everything that the writers state it can do, it would defeat goku, since no power can outmatch what is intended to be, the greatest power. But if you need evidence of his abilities rather than mere words, then in that logic, TOAA is just an old man with no combat ability or resistances against Goku’s abilities, so really I don’t understand why you made this discussion if you already knew he would win with this logic, I mean think what you like, if the writer says TOAA has these abilities then say whatever you like, he’s the writer so its official, TOAA could become Goku himself but out perform Goku in everything Goku can do, so really you were already incorrect in what you were saying from the start, but then again your only sharing your opinion, and opinions are nor right or wrong, this isn’t opinion though, it’s fact as the writers of marvel said so. Also speaking of opinions, I think you have bad taste if you like DBZ personally. Well I’ll take my leave, I and any others already proved you incorrect, your last word on the topic doesn’t bother me because everyone knows TOAAs abilities are official, doesn’t need to be shown as evidence, happy debating friend.

      • Actual Feats>>My opinions>>>Author’s words. I love DBZ and DBGT. My taste gets more refined each year and I even like good ole Pokemon. Good thing I got the last word though B)

      • I found your problem, you think that your opinion holds more sway than the writers opinion, but they are the ones who dictate what the characters can do.
        So what they say about these characters is law, sorry bud.

      • I’m the same, I read the whole page, I won’t fight this topic, one rule of the internet is you can’t disuade or change peoples opinions only respect them.

      • It was definitely an intense debate! I agree, online you just have to stick to your guns and keep on trekking. It’s fun when you win a debate though, but most of them are just stalemates.

  25. But I do think Goku can’t kill TOAA, he may destroy him in his human form, but he is everything essentially, to kill him, you’d have to kill everything, including Goku killing himself, since if we match them together TOAA then becomes everything in DBZ.

    • I still say a good Kamehameha would obliterate him. Even Buu couldn’t survive that blast. (Although I found it to be a little iffy since he should have lived)

    • It’s usually canon, but authors have been known to make mistakes. Just look at Akira Toriyama and DBZ, there have been plenty of power level errors there. That’s when it’s time for the fans to step in.

  26. Yes nerfs because it’s hard to create story with such characters, but that’s why he’s so mysterious, he cannot intervene because he is too powerful, the official lore about him is he is all powerful and knowing and unstoppable, unfortunately you can’t put such a thing into battle, but then again that mean god from christianity is stupid too since he is the real equivalent to TOAA.

    • As of right now, he is unstoppable officially and the writers don’t seem to intend to change that since he is never involved in much anyway, this is an unproductive argument, the beyonder has battled and proved his strength and power against enemies in marvel which have power of one or more universes with ridiculous powers, these enemies are highest tier and don’t intervene with enemies or allies such as iron man, or thor, red skull, captain america, there just too weak. You can’t pit Goku against TOAA since TOAA is in his own tier of power hence he can do nothing, but if were gonna talk official lore, goku would lose.

      • No worries, I help the writers out when they’re in a jam. TOAA was overhyped so I corrected this issue. The Beyonder can actually fight though so I’ll give him some props there. With official lore, Goku takes this. Remember that he also got SSJ God Mode recently.

    • I believe in God so he’s not eligible to be on the blog. Now there’s a true omnipotent, omnipresent, All Power being. TOAA doesn’t live up to the hype and as far as I’m concerned…he’s one of the weaker Marvel characters.

      • Facts aren’t hype, they are facts, and when you said you helped the writers out ill just ignore that as it has no debatable value. Yes Goku attained SSJ god mode, but if hes now that powerful then neither can kill each other, one can’t simply kill TOAA by being another god.

      • On screen feats are the best. After that, hype and “claims” must be taken with a grain of salt. We’ve seen Goku break a car with a single energy blast. TOAA has no feats to match that level of power at this point.

      • I don’t wanna stab you in the back but you say this about TOAA, yet the real god is all hype too, he has done the same thing TOAA did and now they both sit idly doing nothing not showing there ability, your “God” is just as weak.

      • No worries, I draw a fine line between fiction and reality. I believe that God has proven himself time and time again, but it’s a good thing that he doesn’t just appear or else faith wouldn’t exist. We need faith in order to get to Heaven as we believe in Jesus Christ as the only way to Heaven. For a fictional TOAA type guy, I can’t say the same.

  27. Okay I won’t go deeper into your religious beliefs, we all get our answer when were dead… In terms of TOAA this is what you’ve showed me… In the situation he proves his abilities Goku is nothing but a speck he crushes with the lift of a finger, in the situation you don’t believe he has such abilities even though the writer says he does even though I find that weird… He would lose.

    • Yes, but the former would be extremely tough. He couldn’t just crush Goku with a finger or I would laugh it off as bad writing. He would have to be shown as an incredible hand to hand fighter who could move with incredible speed and had a high level of durability. He would have to get an anime and crush every Marvel fighter in a really high budget action scene or he could not match Goku’s established feats.

  28. So if we revert back to the original question Goku vs TOAA, were assuming each character is at its strongest point and anything that each writer for each franchise says that character has, it has, you not believing he has these abilities is irrelevant, were doing a VS, TOAA would obviously win.

    • Each character is at their strongest, but I never said anything about believing the writers. The best feat that we’ve seen from TOAA is when he helped Spidey out of a jam. Goku’s best feat is ripping a dimension, so Goku would clearly win here.

  29. You can’t say goku vs toaa… Oh I personally don’t believe his abilities are real therefor they are not, you don’t get to decide that unless you write marvel, or else its simply Goku VS helpless old man..

    • It basically is Goku vs helpless old man who can levitate/fly. We need to see proof of his abilities before we can make any hasty decisions. It’s why TOAA is doomed to keep on losing and losing until the comics have him appear and do something…which may never happen because they know that he has no real powers.

  30. Your saying goku would win simply from what you have seen, I’ve never seen goku so therefore he is just a mid 20s guy who constantly changes his hair colour and thats it.

      • Goku is a god too, and has the powers to destroy universes with little effort. If TOAA tried to kill Goku by looking at him, Goku could block the attack. Goku wins.

    • Just because goku is A god doesn’t mean he is THE god. There are thousands of gods in fiction. And destroying universe.(speculation) is nothing for TOAA who created the omniverse. (All of fiction and reality). Plus DBZ universe’s are only made of 4 galaxies. That’s small

      And TOAA is omnipotent. He can’t lose.

  31. This is the dumbest stuff in the entire history of the internet….
    I can’t believe i actually found someone so dumb and brainless… Even a 9 year old ain’t this dumb..I feel bad for all the idiots of the world with nothing better to do than being an idiot.You sir need help like seriously even great goku fans do even do this..go leave the internet it looks like its not your time yet to be’s just sad that someone can’t be smart for once they don’t even know what a god is..

  32. Eh, I take Omnipotence with a grain of salt.

    Sentry’s been called it, Odin’s been called it, hell, even Darkseid has.

    What can ToAA possibly bring that they can’t?

      • Y’know something funny? The ToAA of the DCU, the Presence, recently DIED, so I’d bet ToAA could probably take him out.

      • I had the Presence narrowly take the win the first time they fought, but it will be interesting to see if the One Above All can make the most of this opportunity.

    • Omnipotence is a paradox anyway. I just learned that recently.

      But we do know TOAA is the supreme being in marvel

      • You think you know more then the comic book? What is your reason for GEB being weaker then spectre? There is nothing to support this and only evidence against it.

        GEB has no low-showings so there’s no reason to think this is plot hax.

        Etrigan entered GEB and GEB chewed him up and spit him back up

      • Sometimes, but it depends on the author. Some just don’t understand the characters all that well. Spectre has actually withstood punches from Superman.

        That feat trumps all other cosmics!

      • What if GEB is just that strong? What’s your proof Spectre was potrayed as super weak in the comic?

        As a matter of fact the spectre in the comic was probably stronger because the host was corrigan.

        Which would make presence just that strong…….

      • I definitely wouldn’t say that the Spectre there was stronger. He may not have been weak, but I’m not sure that I can buy the outcome of the fight. If it really was just a one shot, then I definitely think the fight had issues. It still doesn’t make the Presence that strong though, he has to prove his power. Even simply blocking an energy blast and throwing a punch would go a long way.

    • Presnece should be way higher on the blog. You can scale of Lucifer Micheal and Spectre. All of which have great feats.

      • There is proof in the comics. Presnece gave spectre, Lucifer and Micheal all of there powers.

        Do you think presence is weaker then GEB? Despite the fact that GEB was constantly refereed to as the darkness to The Presence’s light and they stalemated?

      • He gave them powers, but that certainly doesn’t mean that he has a lot of power as well. He has to prove it. I’ve never heard of GEB before, but I’m inclined to think that he must be at least street tier.

      • The Demigurge powers is litterlay god’s power. It”s Presence’s power. Spectre is God’s wrath. That’s Presence’s power.

        GEB casually beat the spectre with one finger.

      • I googled him and the GEB definitely doesn’t seem that impressive. I think the Spectre could definitely take him down for the count. Presence still needs to fight on his own.

      • That’s your opinion. The comics showed that GEB beat spectre with one finger. He also pwned etrigan

        And Presnece fought GEB and stalemated him.

      • Yes, but comics tend to be inaccurate a lot of the time. You can’t take what they show too seriously when it comes to the cosmic deities. Still, if he beat Etrigan with a physical form/attack, then that would help him a bit.

      • Why would this not be accurate? What proof do you have that the comic was wrong There is only evidence for GEB being superior to Spectre. No evidence for the opposite

      • Well, comics operate under the basis that unshown feats and lore are still very valid, which makes for some wonky battles. Remember when Gladiator one shotted the Juggernaut? (Show version technically) A lot of times, hype trumps logic, which is definitely a no no.

      • I have to admit though, that part was awesome. Thanos definitely can’t hope to stand up to the likes of Ultron…#Orsotheysay

    • Yes, but not as impressive. Against the Spectre, Superman threw a big punch. This guy he just tried half heartedly ramming, which isn’t quite as impressive to stop. Anti Monitor is also far too slow to be a credible threat to someone like Superman. I do agree that he would probably beat Spectre though…it’s a really close fight though.

      • Against Spectre or Anti Monitor? Either way, I’d say that he’s fooling himself. He’s always a little scared to go full force because he could destroy the opponent by mistake. It’s not too much of an issue against these two, but if he fights smart and uses his speed, he’s got nothing to worry about from them.

      • I have not read that arc although I’ll try to grab it at some point. Still, the tall villains are often over hyped so it’s not too surprising to hear that he was wrecking everybody. Just remember, Superman doesn’t kill no matter what the circumstances are.

      • Absolutely, it’s just in Superman’s nature. If a good writer is handling the character, then Superman will never cross that line. You can’t trade one live for another, no matter how many others there are.

      • Then that sounds like very bad writing. Superman definitely wouldn’t let his anger get the better of him like that. There’s always a chance of redemption for villains which is something that Superman believes. Even someone like Mongul has the right to get his life in prison sentence.

      • In which case it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to say that he really was going all out eh? In that case, Superman still has to be careful not to go too fast and hurt one of his allies so his punches won’t have the same acceleration behind them.

      • Yes, but getting hit by a standing punch and getting hit by a punch after flying FTL are two different stories. It’s a big difference in impact power.

      • My proof is his character. Superman can’t risk destroying his allies with the sonic boom that a super speed flight charge would create.

      • I never bought that either. Superman’s way faster than Darkseid imo. He showed off this speed difference in Batman/Superman Apocalypse. Darkseid also does have good reaction times though.

      • Superman could speedblitz either one of them. Doomsday’s strong, but he can’t really deal with Superman’s raw power when the hero isn’t holding back.

      • Doomsday has snagged Superman even when he tried to blitz him. He also broke his arm even when he was amped by Mother Box

        Spectre already countered Superman’s speed

      • Spectre was shown to be able to endure Superman’s best punch, but speed wise Superman’s definitely still got the edge. Doomsday’s no pushover and he’ll give Superman a good run for his money, but I believe that it would ultimately be a futile endeavor. Superman’s got the edge in this matchup as I still say that he is better physically.

  33. I meant this

    That’s your opinion. Doomsday has consistently been far above Superman owning him and counterting his speed in every version besides New 52 ( When he was a Larva) and DOS

      • Please, this is getting annoying. Goky dies HORRIBLY to the TOAA.

        You even believed Goku could beat Beyonderwhen Goku has done nothing multiversal.

      • Goku doesn’t die, much less horribly. Hear me out, TOAA is a figment of our hype. He barely even exists. As for the Beyonder, have you ever seen him shoot a concentrated blast like the Kamehameha? He has energy blasts, but nothing that is quite at Goku level to be honest.

  34. When has Goku been multiversal? Ask yourself that question over and over. Watch an episode or movie of Goku destroying a multiverse. Do you have scans to show you of Goku being multiversal? Being blocked on VS Battles wiki for being a massive Bass wanker, what a fanboy. Nobody takes trolls, wankers, or fanboys seriously.

  35. Nothin can be infinite. Dreager1 just stated unlimited. “His strength and speed are unlimited.” Unlimited speed means he omnipresent. Have corroboration to back you up on Bass? Guess not.

  36. Well, I don’t know how to describe you anymore. I tried to convince you, but seems as if you wouldn’t listen. Long story short (no offense) but this is how I would describe you:


    • What makes you constantly assume TOAA is hype? There’s no proof it is unbeatable, but also no proof it can be beaten. Based on what Living Tribunal says, he’s no hype. Why does LT never want to speak of his name and keeps bringing him up when another being claims there the strongest being in existence?

      TOAA isn’t just an old man. You keep assuming that’s the form he takes all the time when he doesn’t. He took the form of an abstract as I’ve said before when he was reviving Beta Ray Bill. What makes you think he can’t shapeshift into another form?

      • Because we haven’t seen him throw a real punch before. He just sticks to creating things and that’s not a winning strategy. LT brings him up because its convenient as it makes people fear him. We need proof that TOAA can shapeshift into combat ready forms.

  38. I could write a description of TOAA. I should have brought this up long time ago but I forgot. I can’t remember if it was from Marvel: The End or the Offical Handbook but I remember it was from an offical Marvel comic/source.

    There was a time when Thanos got the Heart of The Universe. In this moment he became omnipotent, omniscient, everything. He was the whole universe. He was the rock, he was the flower, he was Spiderman swinging on his web, he was the Skrull Kid laughing.

    He was all times and everything. He declared himself the supreme being. He destroyed the Living Tribunal with ease. He even travelled beyond reality and watched the string of destiny, the very fabric of actuality. And then he realized the truth:

    He was not the supreme being. He was nothing but a pawn of something more powerful. There was one thing even he could not break. And that thing was necessity. And he realized that everything, there was, was flawed. That destruction was inevitable. And he was in the middle of it. The more he fought, the more hopeless the battle became. And the more he fought the destruction, the more he became the tool. Till he was the root of it himself, he realized he was the one who destroyed everything. Then there was nothing anymore, no time, no space, just him in never-ending darkness, Thanos was confronted with a decision: create it anew without him or suffer loneliness beyond time and space. He decided to do the later, cursing the The One Above All who had planned all of this in the beginning.

    That is the power of TOAA. He is more than infinity. He is more than causality. He is the master of the plot himself. And no matter how powerful you are, you cannot escape this single truth: The plot dictates and you do as told.

    Otherwise there is nothing. No story, no people, no creation, no space. Stories are the core of everything there is, even we in our universe are bounded by its laws. You can argue if the story is planned in advance by some supreme being called fate or destiny. Or it is written by ourselves as we live our lives. Argue, if t is cut in stone or fluid. But it is there. It is on TV, in books, in our heads. We tell these stories to each other everyday. It is the summary of everything there was and will be. And in our heads it becomes its own reality. Even if just a short time. Who is to say that a daydream is less real than everything else we perceive? Just because we define it that way? Just because it is different for each of us?

    To cite the bible, a book written in ancient times about what people believed was the most power force in all reality: “At the beginning there was the word. And the word was with God. And the word is God.” The word is a metaphor for the story. And the story is creation. No matter if imagination or reality. And this is also the greatest gift given to mankind: To be creators ourselves.

    And at this crossroads, between fiction and reality, at the core of the story itself resides TOAA. And nothing that my mind could ever imagine is more powerful than that.

    • It’s an interesting story, but I have to disagree with it. I’m a Christian so I believe in God. To me he is All Powerful and the only entity as such. In fiction, we have seen nothing of TOAA to suggest that he is of such a high rank. He has a lot of legends and lore, but he never manages to live up to any of it and instead he just resides in the hype. As for Thanos, he was basically at the top. We can’t say that the plot was guiding him because it’ll just stick you in a logic loop.

  39. Thanks with HOTU was scared of TOAA in the story written in Marvel: The End or Officak Handbook. Notice how he( Thanos) was banished into a never ending darkness by TOAA with no creation, space, time or nothing.

    • It seems like he may have just tricked Thanos then though. Thanos seemed to have gotten paranoid once he got the Gauntlet, so I imagine that feeling was even greater with the HOTU. Perhaps he locked himself in darkness thanks to that.

      • No. It was from TOAA. Did your Ben read the story? TOAA was the only being there with Thanos… in never-ending darkness. Explain to me why then TOAA was the only being who could stop Thanos with the HOTU.

      • Because it’s all mind games. He convinced Thanos that he was the strongest and since the HOTU lets you do that kind of thing, it made TOAA the strongest.

  40. He didn’t convince Thanos. Dude, learn to read. Thanos with HOTU and TOAA were the only brings in that never-ending darkness. Explain to me why TOAA was still there in the darkness and no other hero/villain/abstract was. Thanos was killing everyone in the Marvel Multiverse until he met TOAA.

      • No, I think you just love Bass and Goku to much to accept that they lose. It goes like this for every Bass and Goku thread. A lot of people on Reddit and other sites use that argument story against people who say TOAA is powerless. Heck, it’s used as a side-bar for his fights. Bass and Goku could solo all of fiction and are the strongest beings in all of media? Heh. You constantly use his fight with Hubstyle Megaman to prove that he can’t destroy the Omniverse.

      • I’m a big Bass and Goku fan. They’re awesome, but they just happen to be super strong. It’s not because I’m a big fan of theirs or anything. The Hubstyle fight was pretty cool right? Good times…

      • You always admit Bass and Goku are the strongest beings in all of fiction. Have proof of them destroying a multiverse? Probably not.

      • Their are tons of characters in Marvel/DC who would kick Bass and Goku’s [redacted]. Their are characters in both universes who have multiversal feats. You just ignore that they don’t have multiversal feats and proceed to say “their basically all powerful.”

      • I have to disagree. Superman’s the strongest character in all of Marvel and DC and he can’t beat Goku. It’s a stomp in Goku’s favor.

  41. Here’s another image of his size: You see the last image? That white stuff that Mandrakk is falling through? That’s the Primal Monitor, it stretches to infinity.

    • All right. Cosmic and meta stuff is good on paper, but it doesn’t help you in a fight against someone like Goku. Goku has the Kamehameha wave which can destroy a whole solar system. I’d like to see a cosmic being try and wish that away.

      • Hmm, using la-la-la tactics? The Kamehameha wave isn’t that strong when you compare it to other attacks and weapons. There are many cosmic beings out there that could defeat Goku easily, and also don’t forget that the Kamehameha wave isn’t the strongest attack or weapon in all of fiction.

      • They’re super effective. In all seriousness though, Kamehameha is always my first and last go to point for winning debates. I’d say that it is easily one of the strongest attacks in all of fiction. Cosmic beings can’t even live up to their own hype, much less stop a Kamehameha.

    • The Kamehameha isn’t the strongest attack in all of fiction. There are thousands of attacks/weapons capable of doing more damage. Also, I would love to see the Kamehameha destroy the Observable Universe.

      • 1. Side effect of the Glory if it doesn’t replace it’s wielder or if the new controller uses it to destroy all of existence.
        2. The Shining Trapezohedron (Demonbane) as it can destroy multiverses with every swing. I could post a quote from the Novels.
        3. Giga Drill Break as it is 20x the size of the Observable Universe.
        4. A pocket dimension shattering attack from Hulk.
        5. Mandrakk’s laser blast.

      • 1. Still not impressed by the Glory.
        2. I don’t think it could get past a Kamehameha though.
        3. Size isn’t everything.
        4. Goku’s broken pocket dimensions with his Kamehameha.
        5. Kamehameha would pierce through it.

      • 1. The Glory wasn’t bad, but it doesn’t have the same concentrated energy that the Kamehameha possesses.
        2. We just haven’t had an opportunity for it yet.
        3. The Drill has met its match in the past.
        5. Absolutely!

        I don’t care for the term personally. Some people just really believe in the power of DBzzzzzzz

      • 1. Energy isn’t needed.
        2. Then it doesn’t count.
        3. It took another equal drill of it’s size to destroy it.
        4. Okay.
        5. Sounds like someone doesn’t have knowledge on comics…

        Dbztards are hardcore fans of DBZ that they never want Goku to lose.

      • 2. Why not?
        3. Right, but that opens the door for the Kamehameha.
        5. I’m probably one of the biggest comic book enthusiasts of all time.

        I prefer to call them hardcore DBZ fans. They know how strong Goku is and try to spread the word.

      • 2. If it hasn’t had the opportunity yet, then why do you count it as proof? Don’t rely on fan assumptions.
        3. The Kamehameha has never done multiversal feats.
        5. Then why do you think Goku could beat Mandrakk?

        Dbztards don’t accept that Goku would lose to Marvel.

      • 2. Put it this way, the Kamehameha was able to take on Cell and Buu. It was able to wipe out whole Solar Systems and that was way back in Arc 2. It’s gotten stronger since then.
        3. It’s never been given the chance.
        5. Goku’s way stronger than Mandrakk. It wouldn’t even be much of a fight thanks to the speed difference and Goku’s incredible power.

        Hardcore DBZ fans know that Goku could crush Marvel, myself included. Marvel and DC are okay, but they’re no Anime.

      • 3. We have to use power scaling though. It just makes sense.
        5. Honestly, that was just embarrassing for Savitar. I call moments like that plot hax.

      • 3. Okay but I doubt any multiversal destruction will come eventually.
        5. Flash probably needs a whole army of speedsters to stop Savitar.

      • 3. It is hard to get tot hat level.
        5. True. Savitar is just too fast at this point. He shouldn’t be able to win no matter how many they grab unless they all get a power up. Flash claims he is the fastest man on Earth so he needs to start living up to that title. Maybe Superman can give him some tips.

    • I’ve been to that site a few times. It’s pretty good, but they highly overrate abstract entities like the One Above All and the Presence. Still pretty good though, but they need more cred for the street level fighters or physical beings like Goku or Shenron.

      • Eh, if anything that post just seems like it’s someone who’s been forced to “Hold That L” (Loss) after a debate. If anything, it shows why MLP is such a powerful franchise. Should I link the theme song?

      • Eh, if anything that post just seems like it’s someone who’s been forced to “Hold That L” (Loss) after a debate. If anything, it shows why MLP is such a powerful franchise. Should I link the theme song?

      • Link the theme song. Anyways, does this link work?

        “Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare to imagine…”

      • That’s like saying he’s lying when he’s not. Many top beings like Living Tribunal, Uatu, Odin, Adam Warlock, etc speak highly of TOAA. They’ve all admitted they’re inferior to him.

      • He’s not necessarily lying though. Here’s an example. I tell you that there is always someone stronger. You agree. Next, I say that by this logic, I am not the best Super Smash Bros player of all time and I shudder to think how strong the next guy would be. I may be the strongest though, it’s just logical that what I said must be true right?

      • Yes, but Living Tribunal and the other top beings know TOAA. TOAA created them. So they should know that TOAA is stronger than them.

      • Why would they want to protect his legacy? He isn’t powerless. It’s just like people who worship God and/or gods. Gods aren’t powerless. If they were, why would people worship a powerless being?

      • Because TOAA may be a pretender to the throne. True, God doesn’t need anyone to protect his legacy because he’s real and made all of us. He is all powerful. TOAA on the other hand has never given us any reason to actually believe that he is as strong as he says he is.

  42. Thanks! Christmas was awesome.

    Fourth wall breaking is cool, but let’s not forget that it would never affect the writers/producers in actuality/reality.

    The speech Grant Morrison made was about the Primal Monitor. It could be a cool fight between him and TOAA.


        Stop evading these questions Dreager.
        This has gone on long enough.

        There is no harm in a hypothetical battle. Regardless of what your answer is it won’t change anything.

        So answer the question…

        If Goku were real, could… he… kill… God?

      • I never evade questions. The thing is, Goku isn’t real and God is. That’s basically the bottom line. God is all powerful and absolute. It doesn’t matter if Goku was real, he couldn’t defeat God. God cannot be defeated in any sense of the word

      • Really?
        Last time I checked, you stated that Goku can defeat omnipotent beings.

        God’s power is nothing short of omnipotent (all-powerful as you said). In fact, the term “omnipotence” also sprang from religious history.
        HIS religious history.
        It’s one of the reasons why omnipotence is a concept in reality and fiction to begin with.

        So, going by your logic, if Goku DID come into the real world, he COULD kill God as a byproduct of God’s omnipotence.

        That is, if we’re going by what YOU established…

      • Like I said, we’ve been talking about fictional characters though. It’s a whole other ballgame. It’s like Pizza Hut vs McDonalds. We all know that Pizza Hut is the better cafe, but in fiction they always go to McDonald ripoffs instead

      • Okay…first of all, everyone doesn’t follow that mentality.
        People have their own preferences that deviate from other preferences. Most people don’t even eat pizza and try to maintain a completely healthy diet in order to stay in peak physical condition. Either way, you shouldn’t base everything on your opinion. Everyone is allowed to like and dislike what they want.
        Frankly, I feel as though a dish like pizza should be eaten within lengthened intervals.

        Now, don’t get off topic and stick with me here. We are not going to turn this into another subtopic debate.

        Second, what does it matter if it’s fictional or real?
        Omnipotence still means “infinite power” if it is consistently presented. I mean, numerous mediums follow the same style of creating a religious background that speaks of a supreme, extra-dimensional, primordial entity of limitless power, who is responsible for the creation of all things in this world and the next.

        They even pull a “never intervene directly too often, less man devolve with the lack of challenge” by them only metaphysically associated with their creations…like God.

      • Sure, but then the healthy lifestyle folks wouldn’t go to McDonalds, but in anime they end up going anyway. It’s one of those intriguing things that just makes you wonder. I just thought it was worth noting. I try to have pizza as much as possible but to each their own.

        It totally matters. Fiction and Reality are divided by an incredibly large and thick line. You can’t just bring the two together like that. In fiction I need to see some proof of these abilities and for the cosmic beings to actually do something. It’s like Ryu says in Street Fighter. “Talk is cheap” Once we see the One Above All throw a good punch, then I can get on board

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